Classify and Pass me (an Irishman)

[charlesmckinven1234]

Posted this a few months ago but think I did so on the wrong forum. What phenotype do you think I am and where do you think I pass best? Thank you.
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[CordedWhelp]

I'm not very good at this. Kelto-Brunn, I think?

[charlesmckinven1234]

Don't worry you are :) that seems about accurate, common type in Ireland. Thank you

[Oliver109]

Subnordic Brunn and Keltic, very typical pan Irish look

[Kess]

Keltic-Nordid+North Atlantid

[charlesmckinven1234]

Thank you!

[charlesmckinven1234]

Thank you! That's a big help :)

[Xavier727]

keltic-Nordid, I think Ireland would have been my first guess but I could also see you passing in Denmark.

[charlesmckinven1234]

Oh nice I can actually see that :) there's a sizeable Norse influence in Ireland actually. Thank you

[Scarface F]

Keltic Nordid dominant with minor Brunn. I agree with passing in Denmark outside Ireland/British Isles.

[Watersater79]

Oh nice I can actually see that :) there's a sizeable Norse influence in Ireland actually. Thank you

Enda Kenny seems to be a fine example. I see your hair has a blonde component. As far as your family tree goes, are you 100% Irish? Obviously, I am not discounting the Norse influence in Ireland, but blonde hair is far and few between.

[charlesmckinven1234]

Thank you!

[charlesmckinven1234]

As far as I know I am, I'm planning on doing a DNA soon though so there might be some interesting surprises. That's right, my hair is dark/ sandy blonde, it used to be a lot lighter. Ireland is definitely quite dark haired for its latitude, there are quite a few people here though with blonde hair. Most people here have light to dark brown hair, with sizeable numbers of blondes and gingers.

[Grace O'Malley]

Enda Kenny seems to be a fine example. I see your hair has a blonde component. As far as your family tree goes, are you 100% Irish? Obviously, I am not discounting the Norse influence in Ireland, but blonde hair is far and few between.

That light brown colour is common in Ireland and blond hair is not uncommon at all.

[Melkiirs]

Enda Kenny seems to be a fine example. I see your hair has a blonde component. As far as your family tree goes, are you 100% Irish? Obviously, I am not discounting the Norse influence in Ireland, but blonde hair is far and few between.

True blond versus just light brown in adults itself is not so uncommon among the Irish, although pronounced blondism in adults is more rare (1-2% among young adults) especially by Northern European standards. Adding golden brown, ash-brown, golden blond, and ash blond together from the Hooton & Dupertuis male series come to about 10% true blondism overall and about 15% in Longford-Westmeath, the lightest haired region. If this is roughly equivalent to Fischer #9-26 Ireland still matches parts of Central Europe in blondism as 8.5% Fischer #9-26 found among adults from Volhynia under Pöch and 16.5% of Alsatian adults under Pfitzner. Irish are still at a Central Euro level of blondism.

The OP does not exhibit pronounced blondism or any real blondism actually and appears just light brown to my eyes.

[charlesmckinven1234]

Yep, light brown is probably the most common in my opinion. Ginger is also very common (including strawberry blonde and auburn). I do see quite a few blondes here as well.

[Melkiirs]

Yep, light brown is probably the most common in my opinion. Ginger is also very common (including strawberry blonde and auburn). I do see quite a few blondes here as well.

I think you are about Fischer #8 from based on this photo of the scale:
https://i.ibb.co/x7t4Vjh/Juuksev-rvide-n-idised-karbis.jpg (https://ibb.co/XCrwmsX)

That shade was originally labeled "near blond" with sources from Southern Europe calling it blond and Northern Europe often still deeming it light brunet. It can photobleach much lighter which contributes to how its perceived.

In most regions with the Hooton & Dupertuis study dark brown shades (about #4-5 on the scale) were found most common, but in the lightest regions like Longford-Westmeath medium to light brown shades were clearly more common.

Here is the hair color data for males across all counties (average age overall in 30s but a separately gathered 15-19 bracket was not found radically lighter haired):
https://i.ibb.co/QCs02pk/counties.png (https://imgbb.com/)

[ecptr]

keltic-Nordid, I think Ireland would have been my first guess but I could also see you passing in Denmark.

Post his Danish doppelgangers

[charlesmckinven1234]

Nice thank you!

[Creoda]

Ireland and Scotland, hard to see you as much else. Mostly KN, of the ancient Insular type.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d5/2e/16/d52e1670ae78942fb199d4f937649882.jpg

[Benyzero]

Ireland and Scotland, hard to see you as much else. Mostly KN, of the ancient Insular type.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d5/2e/16/d52e1670ae78942fb199d4f937649882.jpg

that statue tho xD

[slaog]

Enda Kenny seems to be a fine example. I see your hair has a blonde component. As far as your family tree goes, are you 100% Irish? Obviously, I am not discounting the Norse influence in Ireland, but blonde hair is far and few between.
Mainly brown, red isn't as common as the stereotype. But it's more complicated than that. Many people including myself would have been blond as kids etc.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/resizer/640/-1/true/GN4_DAT_10157317.jpg--limerick_gaa_fans_begin_search_for_tickets_and_hot el_rooms_for_all_ireland_final.jpg

[Oliver109]

Mainly brown, red isn't as common as the stereotype. But it's more complicated than that. Many people including myself would have been blond as kids etc.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/resizer/640/-1/true/GN4_DAT_10157317.jpg--limerick_gaa_fans_begin_search_for_tickets_and_hot el_rooms_for_all_ireland_final.jpg

I would say though that some of the reddest gingeriest hair i have seen has been in the Irish, while red hair is perhaps even more common in some parts of the UK the shades in Ireland are often of an intensity.

[Melkiirs]

I would say though that some of the reddest gingeriest hair i have seen has been in the Irish, while red hair is perhaps even more common in some parts of the UK the shades in Ireland are often of an intensity.

Do you have a similar observation among the Welsh compared to the more Germanic parts of the UK? E. Sunderland found the Welsh to have more intense red shades than the rest of Britain although he did not survey any Irish personnel and only a limited representation of Scots (only 105 cases for a country with regional variation).

As I told you before rufosity is more likely to present in blonds than darker-haired individuals especially in cases of occasional heterozygote penetration. Lighter-haired more Germanic parts of Britain (e.g. Lincolnshire & East Anglia in the case of the E. Sunderland study) might have a greater red-blond tendency for that reason.

[Oliver109]

Do you have a similar observation among the Welsh compared to the more Germanic parts of the UK? E. Sunderland found the Welsh to have more intense red shades than the rest of Britain although he did not survey any Irish personnel and only a limited representation of Scots (only 105 cases for a country with regional variation).

As I told you before rufosity is more likely to present in blonds than darker-haired individuals especially in cases of occasional heterozygote penetration. Lighter-haired more Germanic parts of Britain (e.g. Lincolnshire & East Anglia in the case of the E. Sunderland study) might have a greater red-blond tendency for that reason.

Not especially, Welsh usually have either darker red hair or more blondish red hair, interestingly i have observed quite a lot of red hair in Essex and east Anglia, it can't all be down to the Irish diaspora which isn't huge there.

[charlesmckinven1234]

Not especially, Welsh usually have either darker red hair or more blondish red hair, interestingly i have observed quite a lot of red hair in Essex and east Anglia, it can't all be down to the Irish diaspora which isn't huge there.

Not as much as the Irish but a good portion of Germans/ Scandinavians have red hair.

[Oliver109]

Not as much as the Irish but a good portion of Germans/ Scandinavians have red hair.

It's common in Netherlands, Belgium and some pockets of northern France

[Melkiirs]

Not especially, Welsh usually have either darker red hair or more blondish red hair, interestingly i have observed quite a lot of red hair in Essex and east Anglia, it can't all be down to the Irish diaspora which isn't huge there.

You have been to both North and South Wales? E. Sunderland sampled from Glamorgan and Monmouthshire in South Wales. He also sampled from North Wales but his sample was skewed towards those two counties.

East England should have more reddish blond especially due the being lighter haired than English average which is consistent with E. Sunderland's findings. Most of the blondism in UK is of the golden variety already.

[Oliver109]

You have been to both North and South Wales? E. Sunderland sampled from Glamorgan and Monmouthshire in South Wales. He also sampled from North Wales but his sample was skewed towards those two counties.

East England should have more reddish blond especially due the being lighter haired than English average which is consistent with E. Sunderland's findings. Most of the blondism in UK is of the golden variety already.

Yeah i have visited but more south Wales, only went to Ruabon in North Wales to get a bus into the mountains.

[Melkiirs]

Yeah i have visited but more south Wales, only went to Ruabon in North Wales to get a bus into the mountains.

I don’t mean to bother you further (last question) but was this mostly Southeast or Southwest Wales?

[Oliver109]

I don’t mean to bother you further (last question) but was this mostly Southeast or Southwest Wales?

Oh don't worry i like talking about the UK, basically Cardiff, Barry Island, Newport, Merthyr Tydfil, Port Talbot, Rhymney and Abergavenny, also visited Aberystwyth.

[aherne]

Reduced NW European CM + Aryan in equal portions

[Kenshiro]

Very British look

[Immanenz]

Reduced NW European CM + Aryan in equal portions

maybe if you mix Norics with Brunn you get this type of Keltic Nordic head shape