Sarakatsani and Vlachs:Is there a connection?

[Konstantinos Kara]

I wanted to ask if vlachs and sarakatsani have a direct connection,since these populations are very close genetically.What does history say about these populations?

[ANurega]

Nothing. Vlachs are Latin speakers such as Romanians, Aromanians and others.

[Konstantinos Kara]

Interesting point

[Cybele]

There are some professors and ethnographers from Romania who believe that they are a branch of Aromanians, who became Hellenized. But this is just a hypothesis.


One of the hypotheses, supported by the professors from the University of Cluj and Bucharest respectively, Theodor Capidan and Tache Papahagi (and more recently by the ethnographers Irina Nicolau and Tănase Bujduveanu respectively) classifies the Sarakatsani as belonging to a branch of the Aromanians called the rămâni fărșeroți who adopted the Greek language gradually, ultimately under the proselytizing influence of the Greek monk (later sanctified) Cosmas the Aetolian who was very active in the areas inhabited by the Sarakatsani.

The Greek idiom spoken by the Sarakatsani is difficult to understand for the rest of the Greek population and includes vowels specific to the Romanian language such as 'ă' and 'â' which do not exist as such, in Greek. Moreover, it contains numerous words of Aromanian origin but also a high proportion of Slavic and Turkish words.

[Voskos]

Well there is a big difference between the Sarakatsani and the Vlachs, namely that the former only speak Greek.

There's a theory that they descend from the Dorians of Central Greece.

[Konstantinos Kara]

Well they dont seem that same genetically,for sarakatsani people to be aromanian

[Konstantinos Kara]

Well there is a big difference between the Sarakatsani and the Vlachs, namely that the former only speak Greek.

There's a theory that they descend from the Dorians of Central Greece.

Well we dont have any dorian samples,the sarakatsani people are looking a lot paleo-balcanic

[ANurega]

Interesting point

I know Sarakatsani are Greek speaking people. But of course they could of also adopted the Greek language during Roman period or ancient period like some Thracians and Illyrians did or they could be actual Greeks. I don't know much about them, their origin or their genetic make up . I just know Vlachs are most likely people that originated in a Latin speaking area and are Romanians, Aromanians etc. but Vlachs are mixed people with Slavs, Roman etc. and not just Paleo-Balkan. The ones in Albania seem to show higher degree of paleo-balkan lineages. It's interrsting because some Vlach there even tested for J-PH1751 which is related to Albanian tribes like Gash i Gurit, Krasniqi etc

[Cybele]

I wanted to ask if vlachs and sarakatsani have a direct connection, since these populations are very close genetically.


Well they dont seem that same genetically, for sarakatsani people to be aromanian

So, are there any genetic samples out there of Sarakatsani? If so, how close are they to the Aromanian ones by comparison?

[Konstantinos Kara]

We have the results from catgeorge,who is half sarakatsani(idk if he is trustworthy,but his results seem to be so) and i have a sample from a guy who is 75% Sarakatsani of Bulgaria and 25% Bulgarian

[Konstantinos Kara]

I know Sarakatsani are Greek speaking people. But of course they could of also adopted the Greek language during Roman period or ancient period like some Thracians and Illyrians did or they could be actual Greeks. I don't know much about them, their origin or their genetic make up . I just know Vlachs are most likely people that originated in a Latin speaking area and are Romanians, Aromanians etc. but Vlachs are mixed people with Slavs, Roman etc. and not just Paleo-Balkan. The ones in Albania seem to show higher degree of paleo-balkan lineages. It's interrsting because some Vlach there even tested for J-PH1751 which is related to Albanian tribes like Gash i Gurit, Krasniqi etc

I think there is a study about Y-DNA haplos of aromanians

[Voskos]

Well we dont have any dorian samples,the sarakatsani people are looking a lot paleo-balcanic

given that the Dorians as we know arrived probably from Pindus in Central or Northern Greece, we can approximate ancient Dorians to Log02 and Log04 from what is now Thessaly.

Distance to: Greece_Logkas_MBA.SG:Log04.SG
0.03417883 Greek_Thessaly
0.03682935 Greek_Macedonia
0.03721551 Italian_Emilia
0.03808333 Italian_Northeast
0.03825502 Gagauz
0.03859053 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03866564 Italian_Piedmont
0.03931093 Albanian
0.03986080 Swiss_Italian
0.04023782 Bulgarian
0.04036986 Romanian
0.04044998 Macedonian
0.04077091 Italian_Friuli_Venezia_Giulia_Sappada
0.04083018 Rumelia_East
0.04091185 Italian_Veneto
0.04104217 Italian_Tuscany
0.04148815 Italian_Lombardy
0.04169561 Greek_East_Macedonia_and_Thrace
0.04180854 Italian_Bergamo
0.04241700 Greek_Messenia
0.04253053 Greek_West_Taygetos
0.04268138 Italian_Liguria
0.04302740 Italian_Trentino_Alto_Adige
0.04434856 Greek_Argolis
0.04464512 Greek_Arcadia

Distance to: Greece_Logkas_MBA.SG:Log02.SG
0.02368158 Italian_Tuscany
0.02431119 Greek_Thessaly
0.02540433 Italian_Lombardy
0.02632281 Italian_Marche
0.02691930 Italian_Emilia
0.02834099 French_Corsica
0.02858172 Italian_Umbria
0.02884804 Italian_Piedmont
0.02912989 Greek_Messenia
0.02922166 Italian_Liguria
0.02942767 Italian_Lazio
0.02997666 Greek_Arcadia
0.03013658 Greek_Argolis
0.03015720 Albanian
0.03049210 Greek_Achaea
0.03135567 Greek_Macedonia
0.03143920 Greek_East_Taygetos
0.03167704 Greek_Corinthia
0.03178996 Greek_West_Taygetos
0.03186725 Greek_Elis
0.03193732 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03201528 Greek_Peloponnese
0.03207900 Greek_Laconia
0.03208233 Italian_Bergamo
0.03339197 Italian_Abruzzo

[Voskos]

And we also have this sample from Trikala prefecture as well. Modelled 64.7 % Greece Neolithic, 12.21% CHG and 23.1% EHG


Theopetra_BA Greece_Theopetra_BA Greece_Revenia_EN 64.70% 5.30% 12.21 CHG 12.20% 6.00% 2.03 EHG 23.10% 3.60% 6.42


YDNA : I
mtdna: H5
Dated:

2335-2140 calBCE
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982222018243

edit: got the EHG percentage wrong at first sorry, I corrected it

[Konstantinos Kara]

And we also have this sample from Trikala prefecture as well. Modelled 64.7 % Greece Neolithic, 12.21% CHG and 23.1% EHG


YDNA : I
mtdna: H5
Dated:

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982222018243

edit: got the EHG percentage wrong at first sorry, I corrected it

If we get a lot of dorian samples,then we can see if sarakatsani have any connection with them.