Christopher Columbus was Polish!

[Norbert]

Mamma Mia! A new book claims Christopher Columbus was Polish - not Italian.

New research suggests the man credited with discovering America was actually the son of exiled Polish King Vladislav III - and not the son of a humble craftsman from Genoa.

Manuel Rosa, who works in Duke University's IT department, delves into the historical figure's background in his biography "Columbus: The Untold Story."

"I spent my first 10 years of investigation trying to confirm the current story of the Genoese wool-weaver, until I understood...that the Genoese wool-weaver story is a fable," Rosa wrote in an email to the Daily News.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-11-29/news/27082747_1_christopher-columbus-book-claims-wool-weaver

[Jake Featherston]

Many people have believed he was Croatian (there were many Croats in Genoa at that time), but I've never head any claim he was of Polish descent before.

[AFC_Lad]

I heard somewhere that he was Greek...?

[Comte Arnau]

Of all theories I've read, and there are many, I still think the Catalan one is the most plausible. And not because I am particularly fond of this guy being a country fellow of mine, but because of the evidence given.

That article doesn't say anything about the evidences on which that Polish theory is based. :(

[askra]

there are a lot of theories about the origin of Christopher Columbus,
well according to the spanish historian Marisa Azuara he was Sardinian.;)

[Supreme American]

Jews try to claim him. Blacks try to claim him. I was like, hey take him, that way we can dispense with the white guilt trips that accompany.

[Scrapple]

We all know Leif Eiriksson discovered America.

Here is a smilie illustration of how it happend :vikingship: :odinsleipnir2: :viking

[AFC_Lad]

hmm.. not really the oldest skull found in the Americas was found on the west coast, it was Caucasian, and i believe it dated to the B.C. period, so I dont think it was the Vikings who discovered America first.. they were one of the first though.

[Comte Arnau]

The guys who discovered America marched on an iced Bering pass. I'd say the Vikings weren't even a project then.

[Raskolnikov]

Wrong thread.

[LourenzoDamas]

This topic is so intriguing to me because I actually read Professor Manuel Rosa's book in Spanish two years ago when it showed up in Amazon. It will be very difficult to contradict the documentation presented in the book because it is newly discovered evidence hidden in Portugal for many centuries. It is very well researched.
Columbus was born with the name Segismundo Henriques. He was a Royal Prince son of a secretive man living in Madeira Island under the pseudonym of Henrique Alemão, who was in fact King Vladislav III, king of Poland, Hungary, Lithuania, who went into hiding after losing the battle against the Turks in 1444 in Varna.
Professor Rosa presents proof that the King was living in Portugal and that he married a Portuguese noble lady whose great-great-grandmother was a
Colonna from Italy. Search "Henrique Alemão" on google you may find more.
Segismundo Henriques needed to hide his identity to protect his father's identity as King of Poland.
This is how Segismundo Henriques, whose Spanish alias was Cristóbal Colón (Christopher Columbus) got the name Colón from his mother's side the Italian Colonna. This way Columbus was Portuguese and Polish and with distant Italian relatives as well.
It is an awesome book that reveals so much about a fraud in history but no English edition is available. This would make a great film.

[Amapola]

I am quite sure that he was a Sephardic from the Baleares isles.

[LourenzoDamas]

Actually, as the son of King Vladislav III of Varna, Columbus was also of Lithuanian descent.

Manuel Rosa: Surprising revelations about Columbus’ true identity – Interview
http://portuguese-american-journal.com/manuel-rosa-surprising-revelations-about-columbus%E2%80%99s-true-identity-interview/

[Pallantides]

Wrong, he was Norwegian!
vB2m2hFTqCE




:D

[LourenzoDamas]

I am quite sure that he was a Sephardic from the Baleares isles.


Fresa Salvaje, have you read "COLÓN: La Historia Nunca Contada" published in Spain?
I am just curious what you use to support a Sephardic origins.

http://www.libros2.ciberanika.com/desktopdefault.aspx?pagina=~/letras/d/P06179.ascx

"No puede negarse la lógica de los argumentos esgrimidos por Manuel da Silva Rosa, y menos cuando se documenta con tal abundancia de gráficos, mapas antiguos y actuales, fotografías y notas aclaratorias y bibliográficas.
Creo que, en efecto, la obra logra cambiar la perspectiva histórica existente sobre la figura colombina, gracias al rigor científico de las deducciones y sus fundados criterios."

[Comte Arnau]

If he was a Portuguese... how comes his Spanish language was full of Catalan words, specially for the sea things? How comes his mistakes in the Spanish language have been proven to be due to Catalan being a more native language to him? How comes he used the Catalan Cursiva Black-letter script in his writings with high accuracy? :mmmm:

[Amapola]

Fresa Salvaje, have you read "COLÓN: La Historia Nunca Contada" published in Spain?
I am just curious what you use to support a Sephardic origins.

http://www.libros2.ciberanika.com/desktopdefault.aspx?pagina=~/letras/d/P06179.ascx

"No puede negarse la lógica de los argumentos esgrimidos por Manuel da Silva Rosa, y menos cuando se documenta con tal abundancia de gráficos, mapas antiguos y actuales, fotografías y notas aclaratorias y bibliográficas.
Creo que, en efecto, la obra logra cambiar la perspectiva histórica existente sobre la figura colombina, gracias al rigor científico de las deducciones y sus fundados criterios."
If my memory doesn't fail me, "En busca de la verdad: el verdadero origen de Cristobal Colón" by "La asociación cultural Cristobal Colón".

There was a thread about this on the apricity some time ago, it might be interesting for you, but sadly I could not find it.

[LourenzoDamas]

If he was a Portuguese... how comes his Spanish language was full of Catalan words, specially for the sea things? How comes his mistakes in the Spanish language have been proven to be due to Catalan being a more native language to him? How comes he used the Catalan Cursiva Black-letter script in his writings with high accuracy? :mmmm:


It is a very common thing these days to say Columbus wrote in Catalan... However, it is not true.
Here is what Prof. Consuelo Varela write about Columbus's language and writings.
"En su castellano se encuentran portuguesismos claros: hasta un deter ‘detener’ en la relación del tercer viaje... En su clásico estudio sobre la lengua de Colón, Menéndez Pidal ha señalado, con razón, que los autógrafos castellanos tienen un claro barniz portugués, perceptible sobre todo en la grafía en el vocalismo... En definitiva, el Almirante se sirve de una norma más portuguesa que italiana... De todas maneras, siempre nos queda la sospecha de que Colón pensara no en el castellano como, sino en el portugués..."

As for the "Catalan Cursiva Black-letter script" that is very funny. I will give you 1000.00 euros if you can tell someones native language simply by looking at the way they write their alphabet.... unless it is Latin, Arabic, Chinese, Cyrillic, Japanese, etc... You can't look at someone's handwriting and say. Ah, Yes, I see.. from the way he writes his a,b,c he was born in Sicily... how funny.
:)

[LourenzoDamas]

If my memory doesn't fail me, "En busca de la verdad: el verdadero origen de Cristobal Colón" by "La asociación cultural Cristobal Colón".

There was a thread about this on the apricity some time ago, it might be interesting for you, but sadly I could not find it.

I suggest highly that you read "COLÓN: La Historia Nunca Contada" it is full of new surprises about Columbus. Shows how Columbus lied to the Spanish court and how he was working as a Portuguese spy to fool Spanish ships to go away from the real India... Columbus: 007 of the 15th Century :thumbs up

[Nglund]

Colombus was Mordid's ancestor? :eek:

[Comte Arnau]

It is a very common thing these days to say Columbus wrote in Catalan... However, it is not true.

According to who?


Here is what Prof. Consuelo Varela write about Columbus's language and writings.
"En su castellano se encuentran portuguesismos claros: hasta un deter ‘detener’ en la relación del tercer viaje... En su clásico estudio sobre la lengua de Colón, Menéndez Pidal ha señalado, con razón, que los autógrafos castellanos tienen un claro barniz portugués, perceptible sobre todo en la grafía en el vocalismo... En definitiva, el Almirante se sirve de una norma más portuguesa que italiana... De todas maneras, siempre nos queda la sospecha de que Colón pensara no en el castellano como, sino en el portugués..."

I don't see how the appearance of some Portuguesisms in his Spanish deny the Catalan theory. Firstly, he learned Portuguese before Spanish, as he was married to a Portuguese and had been living in Portugal. Secondly, Spanish is closer to Portuguese than to Catalan, so he could have finished with a hybrid of both, just as I also use Spanish words when I don't know the word in Portuguese instead of words from my native Catalan. Thirdly, I'm pretty convinced that many of the so-called Portuguesisms are words that are also found in Catalan, or even in Ladino, spoken by Iberian Jews.

All I know is that there have already been at least four linguistic analysis on Columbus' writings by four different authors pointing to Catalan being his -if not native- 'thinking language'. One made it clear that Columbus was an excellent punctuator, to a point in which texts without that punctuation are probably fakes or later transcriptions. One of the symbols he used in particular was the virgula, which he constantly used, and which was almost exclusively used in the Crown of Aragon; not in Castile, not in Portugal, not in Genoa. Some studies have even gone as far as to specify that his Catalan was Eastern Catalan, and not from Catalonia, but from the Balearic Islands, probably Ibiza.


As for the "Catalan Cursiva Black-letter script" that is very funny. I will give you 1000.00 euros if you can tell someones native language simply by looking at the way they write their alphabet.... unless it is Latin, Arabic, Chinese, Cyrillic, Japanese, etc... You can't look at someone's handwriting and say. Ah, Yes, I see.. from the way he writes his a,b,c he was born in Sicily... how funny.
:)

If you knew something about paleography, you'd see how naive is what you just said. There is a lot to know about someone's handwriting, specially in those times, when writing was not something everybody could do.

Too many things, both in the language and in the writing, reveal that his first (or at least, his educated) language was likely Catalan, whether he was born in Aragon or not. I'd like to know how many serious language studies have been carried out for the Portuguese theory, and not only comments by an author about a handful of Portuguese-looking words and what Pidal said about the way his vowels looked like.

[antonio]

I also bet for him being a peninsular. The theory I agree the most says that he disguised his Galician or Portuguese Jewish origin by presenting himself as Genovese. But I recall also this one saying he was from Levant. Moreover his lusisms being Catalan would be better explained than his catalanisms in case he was GalicianPortuguese.

[Bifrost]

hmm.. not really the oldest skull found in the Americas was found on the west coast, it was Caucasian, and i believe it dated to the B.C. period, so I dont think it was the Vikings who discovered America first.. they were one of the first though.

The Solutrean hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solutrean_hypothesis)

[Matritensis]

The only thing I care about is that he was nordid.

[Damião de Góis]

According to who?

I don't see how the appearance of some Portuguesisms in his Spanish deny the Catalan theory. Firstly, he learned Portuguese before Spanish, as he was married to a Portuguese and had been living in Portugal. Secondly, Spanish is closer to Portuguese than to Catalan, so he could have finished with a hybrid of both, just as I also use Spanish words when I don't know the word in Portuguese instead of words from my native Catalan. Thirdly, I'm pretty convinced that many of the so-called Portuguesisms are words that are also found in Catalan, or even in Ladino, spoken by Iberian Jews.


How do you know that he learned portuguese before spanish? If he was catalan, i'm pretty sure he was familiar with castillian, for obvious political reasons and proximity.

[Peyrol]

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-11-29/news/27082747_1_christopher-columbus-book-claims-wool-weaver

AHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHA AHAHA A-Hà! http://www.bodyweb.com/forums/images/smilies/rotfl%5B1%5D.gifhttp://www.bodyweb.com/forums/images/smilies/rotfl%5B1%5D.gifhttp://www.bodyweb.com/forums/images/smilies/rotfl%5B1%5D.gif

Why not taino, guatematech or guarani?


Recent research on Columbus son's DNA has shown both northern italian and catalan genes...so...draw your conclusions.

[Joe McCarthy]

Great. The Poles already have Copernicus to bicker over. Now they can add Columbus.

[Comte Arnau]

How do you know that he learned portuguese before spanish?

Because it was before going to Castile that he lived for ten years in Portugal and married Filipa Moniz.


If he was catalan, i'm pretty sure he was familiar with castillian, for obvious political reasons and proximity.

In the 15th century? Alex, you're looking at this from a very modern point of view. At the end of the 15th century, the average Catalan didn't speak Spanish at all. Only some literate people -both in Catalonia and Portugal- could use Spanish fluently, like the Catalan Joan Boscà (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Bosc%C3%A1n_Almog%C3%A1ver) or the Portuguese Gil Vicente (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Vicente).

Columbus was born even before the dynastic union of Castile and Aragon, so politically Portugal could be considered even closer, as both Castile and Portugal had had a history in common in the Kingdom of Leon. Not to say linguistically or even geographically. Remember, we're talking about medieval Iberia.

[Damião de Góis]

Because it was before going to Castile that he lived for ten years in Portugal and married Filipa Moniz.

According to what i read he wrote in a "espanhol aportuguesado", not "português espanholado"... which would make the presence of portuguese words in his texts a bit strange. Unless you think that these supposed portuguese words are actually all catalan words.


In the 15th century? Alex, you're looking at this from a very modern point of view. At the end of the 15th century, the average Catalan didn't speak Spanish at all. Only some literate people -both in Catalonia and Portugal- could use Spanish fluently, like the Catalan Joan Boscà (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Bosc%C3%A1n_Almog%C3%A1ver) or the Portuguese Gil Vicente (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Vicente).

Columbus was born even before the dynastic union of Castile and Aragon, so politically Portugal could be considered even closer, as both Castile and Portugal had had a history in common in the Kingdom of Leon. Not to say linguistically or even geographically. Remember, we're talking about medieval Iberia.

Alright. Here's an interesting fact, which is described in his journal: when he got to the new world, he took down the spanish flags from his ship and put up a flag with a green cross in all ships of his fleet. I don't know if there are catalan green crosses, but i certainly can think of one :p

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Ordem_Avis.svg/300px-Ordem_Avis.svg.png

[Comte Arnau]

According to what i read he wrote in a "espanhol aportuguesado", not "português espanholado"... which would make the presence of portuguese words in his texts a bit strange. Unless you think that these supposed portuguese words are actually all catalan words.

The language he spoke and wrote was Spanish, which he had learned. Only that, according to the comments of many, it was obvious that it wasn't his native language, and from his writings we can infer all the same. Now, if that Spanish was "aportuguesado" or "acatalanado" or whatsoever other options we can think of, that's what is being discussed. It would be interesting to know all of those "Portuguese" words and check if they are so clearly Portuguese. In those times, words such as floresta, for example, were common to the three languages. The use of the x was common to the three languages too. Many people who play at being linguists commit all kind of silly mistakes in order to prove their theories sometimes, so it's a healthy practice to take it all with a pinch of salt.


Alright. Here's an interesting fact, which is described in his journal: when he got to the new world, he took down the spanish flags from his ship and put up a flag with a green cross in all ships of his fleet. I don't know if there are catalan green crosses, but i certainly can think of one :p

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Ordem_Avis.svg/300px-Ordem_Avis.svg.png

Lol. Now look at this.

http://loburromasque.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/senyera-colom2.jpg

There are dozens of theories on conspiracies about changing the Catalan flags for Castilian ones, proving it with old pics and whatnot. Frankly, I prefer to attach to the language analysis, which is a bit more my field and seems somewhat more trustworthy. :p

[Damião de Góis]

The language he spoke and wrote was Spanish, which he had learned. Only that, according to the comments of many, it was obvious that it wasn't his native language, and from his writings we can infer all the same. Now, if that Spanish was "aportuguesado" or "acatalanado" or whatsoever other options we can think of, that's what is being discussed. It would be interesting to know all of those "Portuguese" words and check if they are so clearly Portuguese. In those times, words such as floresta, for example, were common to the three languages. The use of the x was common to the three languages too. Many people who play at being linguists commit all kind of silly mistakes in order to prove their theories sometimes, so it's a healthy practice to take it all with a pinch of salt.



Lol. Now look at this.

http://loburromasque.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/senyera-colom2.jpg

There are dozens of theories on conspiracies about changing the Catalan flags for Castilian ones, proving it with old pics and whatnot. Frankly, I prefer to attach to the language analysis, which is a bit more my field and seems somewhat more trustworthy. :p

Yes, i'm not really sure of this but i've read so many things that i don't know what to believe anymore. When you have time you should read this :D

http://colombo.do.sapo.pt/indexPTColomboEsp11.html

The home page has more interesting things:

http://colombo.do.sapo.pt/index.html

[Electronic God-Man]

Yeah, yeah. And when I was in Sicily I saw a program trying to claim William Shakespeare was Sicilian.

[Comte Arnau]

The question is: why, if he was a Genoese, he couldn't speak it?

[Peyrol]

The question is: why, if he was a Genoese, he couldn't speak it?

He could.
He wrote in genoese in the "Libro dei Privilegi".

In my opinion, Columbus was a Genovese born totally grown up in the catalan culture.

[LourenzoDamas]

He could.
He wrote in genoese in the "Libro dei Privilegi".

In my opinion, Columbus was a Genovese born totally grown up in the catalan culture.

It is so amazing to me how many people will argue about things they DO NOT research. Like sheep you follow this shepherd or that shepherd without knowing where you came from or where you are going. You must use logic when your read these things about Columbus.
Columbus did NOT write his Book of Privileges in "Genoese" but in Spanish. In fact he NEVER wrote in Italian NOT even to his own Brothers. But he did write in a "Portuguese" flavored Castilian. As for having learned Catalan for 20 years and then learned Portuguese in ONBLY 10 YEARS to go learn Castilian, how silly is that.
As I said, I read professor Rosa's book COLÓN: La Historia Nunca Contada, and I had read other books and theories, before. I now have no doubts that Columbus was a Portuguese born nobleman. In fact Columbus says that Portugal was "mi tierra" in a letter to the Spanish court on May 1493. I think this book is also in Portuguese as "Colombo Português - Novas Revelações" and I doubt any other book can counter the evidence of the Portuguese life of Columbus presented by this author. It is all very logical and full of documented history of Portugal not written in the "air" with no foundation or logic, as other books on Columbus were done. :D

[supergiovane]

he never wrote in italian because it wasn't his native language who was ligurian and he never used ligurian because it didn't have enough of a literary tradition at the time. simple as that ah ah!

[Comte Arnau]

He could.
He wrote in genoese in the "Libro dei Privilegi".

To my knowledge, he wrote in Spanish there, as Lourenzo says. He apparently never wrote either in Genoese or any other Italian language, and only two notes he wrote could be described as some sort of "fake Italian".


In my opinion, Columbus was a Genovese born totally grown up in the catalan culture.

That could well be too.


he never wrote in italian because it wasn't his native language who was ligurian and he never used ligurian because it didn't have enough of a literary tradition at the time. simple as that ah ah!

Diaries, notes you write to yourself, letters written to your Genoese relatives... And not even a single word in their native language? Come on, it's not about literary tradition. And even if so, his Spanish should have had mistakes associated to someone from Genoa which doesn't seem to be the case.

[Peyrol]

It is so amazing to me how many people will argue about things they DO NOT research. Like sheep you follow this shepherd or that shepherd without knowing where you came from or where you are going. You must use logic when your read these things about Columbus.
Columbus did NOT write his Book of Privileges in "Genoese" but in Spanish. In fact he NEVER wrote in Italian NOT even to his own Brothers. But he did write in a "Portuguese" flavored Castilian. As for having learned Catalan for 20 years and then learned Portuguese in ONBLY 10 YEARS to go learn Castilian, how silly is that.
As I said, I read professor Rosa's book COLÓN: La Historia Nunca Contada, and I had read other books and theories, before. I now have no doubts that Columbus was a Portuguese born nobleman. In fact Columbus says that Portugal was "mi tierra" in a letter to the Spanish court on May 1493. I think this book is also in Portuguese as "Colombo Português - Novas Revelações" and I doubt any other book can counter the evidence of the Portuguese life of Columbus presented by this author. It is all very logical and full of documented history of Portugal not written in the "air" with no foundation or logic, as other books on Columbus were done. :D


Colombo non era portoghese, ma liguro-catalano.

Fatevene una ragione voi lusitani.

[Flintlocke]

Oh come on! Everyone knows Columbus was Albanian :P /sarcasm

[Libertas]

Why would ANY NATIONALITY claim him?

He was a blunderer who thought that he had reached India and a man who proved to be a disastrous governor.

[Comte Arnau]

Why would ANY NATIONALITY claim him?

He was a blunderer who thought that he had reached India and a man who proved to be a disastrous governor.

Some people like to know the truth about things. A defect we have, I guess. ;)

[pinguino]

According to recent studies, Columbus was a Catalan pirate, instead of an Italian navigator. What do you think?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/6326698/Christopher-Columbus-writings-prove-he-was-Spanish-claims-study.html

[Anglojew]

No. Columbus was Jewish and a Zionist (and Spanish like myself);

"Recently, a number of Spanish scholars, such as Jose Erugo, Celso Garcia de la Riega, Otero Sanchez and Nicholas Dias Perez, have concluded that Columbus was a Marrano, whose survival depended upon the suppression of all evidence of his Jewish background in face of the brutal, systematic ethnic cleansing.

Columbus, who was known in Spain as Cristóbal Colón and didn't speak Italian, signed his last will and testament on May 19, 1506, and made five curious -- and revealing -- provisions.

Two of his wishes -- tithe one-tenth of his income to the poor and provide an anonymous dowry for poor girls -- are part of Jewish customs. He also decreed to give money to a Jew who lived at the entrance of the Lisbon Jewish Quarter.
On those documents, Columbus used a triangular signature of dots and letters that resembled inscriptions found on gravestones of Jewish cemeteries in Spain. He ordered his heirs to use the signature in perpetuity.

According to British historian Cecil Roth's "The History of the Marranos," the anagram was a cryptic substitute for the Kaddish, a prayer recited in the synagogue by mourners after the death of a close relative. Thus, Columbus' subterfuge allowed his sons to say Kaddish for their crypto-Jewish father when he died. Finally, Columbus left money to support the crusade he hoped his successors would take up to liberate the Holy Land."
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/20/opinion/garcia-columbus-jewish/index.html


"Some researchers have postulated that Columbus was of Iberian Jewish origins. The linguist Estelle Irizarry, in addition to arguing that Columbus was Catalan, also claims that Columbus tried to conceal a Jewish heritage.[84] In "Three Sources of Textual Evidence of Columbus, Crypto Jew,"[85] Irizarry notes that Columbus always wrote in Spanish, and occasionally included Hebrew in his writing, and referenced the Jewish High Holidays in his journal during the first voyage."

http://www.tbspr.org/_kd/Items/actions.cfm?action=Show&item_id=2026&

http://www.closetotorah.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/c3.jpg

[Lábaru]

Totally wrong, Colombus was a Basque.

[Anglojew]

Totally wrong, Colombus was a Basque.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm2/Bunbun222/charlie-sheen-crazy-eyes.jpg

[Comte Arnau]

There is indeed a theory saying he was a Crypto-Jew grown up in a Catalan-speaking area, either Catalonia or Majorca.

Anyway, I'm closing this as the issue has already been discussed in threads like this (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38296). Don't be lazy and read them. You can continue the topic there.

EDIT: I merged it with the other thread instead. No reason to close it, so far.

[Gimpicus]

lol

[Anglojew]

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-11-29/news/27082747_1_christopher-columbus-book-claims-wool-weaver

He was a Spanish Jew not a Polish Jew.

[Heart of Oak]

Fuck off he was Spainish/French.....

[RussiaPrussia]

first man in america and first man in space = slavs

i guess it makes sense

[Anglojew]

first man in america and first man in space = slavs

Dude, there were men in the America's when Columbus got there.

[Graus]

A Pole would have stolen the country for himself

[derLowe]

I nearly fell out of my chair laughing.

[RussiaPrussia]

Dude, there were men in the America's when Columbus got there.

but thats how its written in american history books

[Petersburg]

Columbus was Russian, I thought everybody knows that lol. Real name: Konstantin Columbovich, a Russian agent.

[Madonna]

I have never heard about it in Poland to be honest !!

[Virtuous]

this thread is a joke.

everyone knows Colombus was Maltese.

[Petersburg]

Rewriting world's history in Turkish style

[Corvus]

this thread is a joke.

everyone knows Colombus was Maltese.

Indeed
That`s what we have learned in school :coffee:

[Ira di Dio]

He was either a Jew, a Pollack or both, much like Leonardo Da Vinci.

[Madonna]

but I heard they will do some DNA tests or something :D to prove it

if its true you will all cry :D

[Rouxinol]

Some theories claim that he was Portuguese. There is a small, ancient town in Alentejo named Cuba from which the name of the island in the Caribbean Sea derives.

Books on it:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Portuguese-Columbus-Secret-Agent/dp/0312079486
http://www.amazon.com/Christopher-Columbus-Portuguese-Manuel-Luciano/dp/1607028247

[Madonna]

we should wait for tests :D
omg slavic genes everywhere :D

[perikolez]

I dont know why is so important Columbus origin. Columbus was a mercenary who worked for Portugal and Castilla, and he "discovered" America working for Castilla which payed his journey, and gave him ships and men to make navigation to America. Castilians "discovered" America , not genovese, polish, catalans, etc.

[Graus]

we should wait for tests :D
omg slavic genes everywhere :D

Scary thought

[Lábaru]

I dont know why is so important Columbus origin. Columbus was a mercenary who worked for Portugal and Castilla, and he "discovered" America working for Castilla which payed his journey, and gave him ships and men to make navigation to America. Castilians "discovered" America , not genovese, polish, catalans, etc.

Because everyone wants to claim a small piece of the glory of Spain.

[Graus]

Well he certainly wasnt German! If we travel to India, we dont end up in America!

[Sandman]

Polak potrafi:thumb001:

[Madonna]

Polak potrafi:thumb001:

:thumb001:

[Petersburg]

Slavic team takes over the world

[perikolez]

Because everyone wants to claim a small piece of the glory of Spain.

I dont think that his journey was the most dificult, or the most important. It is overrated because he "discovered" America , and EEUU are in America. If Columbus had discovered Australia , he would be unknown. First world cicumnavigation made by Magallanes-Elcano is more dificult and more amazing by far.

[Lábaru]

Well he certainly wasnt German! If we travel to India, we dont end up in America!

http://www.larepublica.es/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/merkelignorante.png
http://m24digital.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/merkel-mapa.jpg
http://inteligenciaeconomica.com.pt/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/83f21__2012-05-14T151005Z_1_CBRE84D165000_RTROPTP_3_NEWS-US-GERMANY-MERKEL.jpg
http://rastreadordenoticias.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/merkel_berln_rusia_thumb.png

xD xD xD

[pinguino]

Dude, there were men in the America's when Columbus got there.

Exactly. Columbus discover the Americas FOR the Europeans only.

(1) Siberian-related people entered the Americas around 12.000 years ago and a thousand year later had settled everything, from Alaska to the Land of Fire.

(2) The ancestors of Inuits entered reached Alaska from Asia around 3000 years ago, and from there they conquered the arctic, reaching Greenland around 1000 A.D.

(3) Leif Ericson reached Newfoundland at 1.000 A.D. and Columbus knew about it.

The only extraordinary thing Columbus did was reaching the Americas from Europe through the equator, which wasn't a minor feat... in Eurasia, of course. Polynesians had done more impressive sailings in the Pacific long time before.

[Graus]

http://www.larepublica.es/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/merkelignorante.png
http://m24digital.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/merkel-mapa.jpg
http://inteligenciaeconomica.com.pt/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/83f21__2012-05-14T151005Z_1_CBRE84D165000_RTROPTP_3_NEWS-US-GERMANY-MERKEL.jpg
http://rastreadordenoticias.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/merkel_berln_rusia_thumb.png

xD xD xD

What? She isnt wrong, just a little ahead of the schedule...

[Madonna]

What? She isnt wrong, just a little ahead of the schedule...

thats sooo funny
these greedy Germans :D :rolleyes:

[Twistedmind]

Exactly. Columbus discover the Americas FOR the Europeans only.

(1) Siberian-related people entered the Americas around 12.000 years ago and a thousand year later had settled everything, from Alaska to the Land of Fire.

(2) The ancestors of Inuits entered reached Alaska from Asia around 3000 years ago, and from there they conquered the arctic, reaching Greenland around 1000 A.D.

(3) Leif Ericson reached Newfoundland at 1.000 A.D. and Columbus knew about it.

The only extraordinary thing Columbus did was reaching the Americas from Europe through the equator, which wasn't a minor feat... in Eurasia, of course. Polynesians had done more impressive sailings in the Pacific long time before.

Cosnquenece of Columbu's discover was spread of civilisation in Americe. You cant deny it.

[Linet]

Colompus was half Aboriginal - half Viking :vikingship:...he decided to make the round of the world based of the stories of his viking forefathers :viking3:

[Smaug]

we should wait for tests :D
omg slavic genes everywhere :D

Noooo!!!

[pinguino]

Cosnquenece of Columbu's discover was spread of civilisation in Americe. You cant deny it.

Civilization existed in the Americas long time before Columbus. Maya, Aztecs and Incas are the better known but there are dozens more. Now, how could a criminal like him spread "civilization"? He was so bad a man that was brought in chains back to Spain. Besides, only after the crown took control of the criminals shipped to the Americas, which happened a way after the first conquests, could the Hispanic culture spread in the Americas, replacing the native culture and civilizations. More than the crown or the conquerors, the institution that spread the western civilization in the Americas was the Catholic Church, and heroes like the Jesuit monks. Those people deserve my respects.

[Madonna]

Noooo!!!

make 23andme I bet you will have some Polish blood too :D :rolleyes:

[Vesuvian Sky]

I'll settle this once and for all:

Columbus was clearly a Turanid. He followed the sacred deer, Nimshurod, (or something like that) out of Turan and across the Atlantic to discover Atlantis.

Also Amerigo Vespucci never existed, only a Welshmen named Amerik.

Finally, Marco Polo never made it to China. He got side tracked in Bukhara on account of all the hot Tajik girls.

There done. :)

[Twistedmind]

Civilization existed in the Americas long time before Columbus during thousand of years. How could a criminal like him spread "civilization"?
On pretty low level. Incas did not have script to begin with. You want to deny it? Also, Mayas and Aztecs were not on remearcable stadium of development. I dont want even to mention other tribes. You could call him criminal, or whatever you want, but it is stupid to say Europeans did not brought civlisation.



He was so bad a man that was brought in chains back to Spain. Besides, only after the crown took control of the criminals shipped to the Americas,

Yes. And? He was acquited.



which happened a way after the first conquests, could the Hispanic culture spread in the Americas, replacing the native culture and civilizations.

Same old pattern repeating thousands times in World. What is exactly point. You are descendat of both sides. Conquistradors did some crimes, but they were your ancestors, remeber.




More than the crown or the conquerors, the institution that spread the western civilization in the Americas was the Catholic Church, and heroes like the Jesuit monks. Those people deserve my respects.

And, Spaniards brought them.

[Smaug]

make 23andme I bet you will have some Polish blood too :D :rolleyes:

No need for 23andMe. I do have Polish blood, but I' glad it accounts for less than 1% of my ancestry. :P

[pinguino]

On pretty low level. Incas did not have script to begin with. You want to deny it? Also, Mayas and Aztecs were not on remearcable stadium of development. I dont want even to mention other tribes. You could call him criminal, or whatever you want, but it is stupid to say Europeans did not brought civlisation.


Low level? It amazed me how little about our civilizations is known in Europe. Although I concede the New World was behind Eurasia in technology and science, in here there were respectable civilizations with a lot of knowledge you can't imagine in Europe. See our tread of native Americans inventions :picard1:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68385&highlight=invenciones+indigenas



Yes. And? He was acquited.


Indeed. But not because he was innocent. Columbus was a brute, and not only against natives but also against Spaniards! He never again could rule a colony, and just was left to explore.



Same old pattern repeating thousands times in World. What is exactly point. You are descendat of both sides. Conquistradors did some crimes, but they were your ancestors, remeber.


It's something accepted, forgiven... but not forgotten. The fact that I have some Spanish ancestors is irrelevant. It has to be shown exactly like it was. No more celebrations of victory, on top of the bones of so many victims. Let's tell all the truth. The good, the bad and the ugly.



And, Spaniards brought them.

Sure. The crown did. Not all Spaniards were criminals. Not all all. I have my respects to the Spanish crown and its efforts to control the abuses in the New World, and specially I admire the work of the Jesuits, who treated the Indians like human beings.

[Twistedmind]

Low level? It amazed me how little about our civilizations is known in Europe. Although I concede the New World was behind Eurasia in technology and science,

They were on same level of architecture, religion, literature? Not.



in here there were respectable civilizations with a lot of knowledge you can't imagine in Europe.
Not really comparable with European. You could go and represent ti in good, light, and it deserve to be so. But again it is not serious to be compared with renessaince culture. Not even with Medieval one.



See our tread of native Americans inventions
You admited yourslef there was enormous technological gap.




Indeed. But not because he was innocent. Columbus was a brute, and not only against natives but also against Spaniards! He never again could rule a colony, and just was left to explore.
I am not defending him. I said his discovery, despite lot of bad things brought spread of civilisation in final outcome.



It's something accepted, forgiven... but not forgotten. The fact that I have some Spanish ancestors is irrelevant. It has to be shown exactly like it was. No more celebrations of victory, on top of the bones of so many victims. Let's tell all the truth. The good, the bad and the ugly.
Like I said it was pattern in world history. You mean that all population of Mexico was looking positively on Aztecs, and their religious rituals?


Sure. The crown did. Not all Spaniards were criminals. Not all all. I have my respects to the Spanish crown and its efforts to control the abuses in the New World, and specially I admire the work of the Jesuits, who treated the Indians like human beings.
Well, Jesutis spread civilisation in South America, and they were brought by his discovery. There is not black and white picture.

[pinguino]

They were on same level of architecture, religion, literature? Not.


So what? Mayans reached heights comparable with ancient civilizations of Middle East and Asia. Aztecs had civil engineering works comparable with Romans. Incas formed an Empire as widespread as Roman Empire. Of course, nobody will compare these technological developments at the Europeans, but clamming Europe brought "civilization" to the New World is another lie.
In literature, there is still research going on rescuing the marvelous mythology of the region, and also we have several classics kept from pre-Columbian times.
And in religion? Do you think the introduction of a superstition, like the christian beliefs, is something remarkable?



Not really comparable with European. You could go and represent ti in good, light, and it deserve to be so. But again it is not serious to be compared with renessaince culture. Not even with Medieval one.


Who cares about renassaince culture? You said "civilization" was brought to the Americas by some brutes. That's nonsense. Civilization existed in the Americas.



You admited yourslef there was enormous technological gap.


Sure. In some things there were technological gaps. However, Europe benefit quite a lot of the rapping of the Americas. Just consider the potato that stopped the chronicle hungers of Europe.



I am not defending him. I said his discovery, despite lot of bad things brought spread of civilisation in final outcome.


Columbus didn't spread "civilization". He spread Western Culture. Which is not the same that civilizing cave men.



Like I said it was pattern in world history. You mean that all population of Mexico was looking positively on Aztecs, and their religious rituals?


Certainly not. Aztecs were brutes. Natives of Mexico just selected among two evils.



Well, Jesutis spread civilisation in South America, and they were brought by his discovery. There is not black and white picture.

Again the word "civilization". Do you know what the word means? Civilization means cultures that make cities! In the Americas there were many cities. Some were larger than the Europeans and richer. So stop talking about Europeans bringing civilization. They didn't. There are cities, like Mexico City or Cuzco, that existed centuries before Europeans arrived. What happened to the New World was a spread of western culture that destroyed local cultures and civilizations; which is different.

Jesuits brought Europe high culture to the Americas, particularly baroque painting, music and architecture, and in here there was production at the level of Europe. And people here is still very thankful to them for doing that.

Read and watch this.
http://theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68736

[Twistedmind]

So what? Mayans reached heights comparable with ancient civilizations of Middle East and Asia.
Not really. They never reached cultural level of former.



Aztecs have civil engineering works comparable with Romans.
Not.



Incas formed an Empire as widespread as Roman Empire.
But, level of development was not comparable. Romans left enormous cultural legacy, which is in foundation of yours culture (and European as well). Speaking how big Incan Empire was, is abolsutley irrelevant.




Of course, nobody will compare the technological developments at the European, but clamming Europe brought "civilization" to the New World is another lie.

Not. Culture is not comparable. What is comparable to lets say Illyad?

[pinguino]

Not really. They never reached cultural level of former.


You didn't read my post and just hurried up to answer.

How much do you know about Native Americans cultures and our civilizations? It is very clear you know nothing, and I don't want to train you.

Go back to school, and learn everything you can, before shooting yours European inferiority complex on here.

I admire Greeks, by the way. But venerating Romans, such a degenerate and cruel people, like you do, seems to me devastating.

Yours euro-centrism sucks.

:rolleyes:

[Comte Arnau]

I dont know why is so important Columbus origin. Columbus was a mercenary who worked for Portugal and Castilla, and he "discovered" America working for Castilla which payed his journey, and gave him ships and men to make navigation to America. Castilians "discovered" America , not genovese, polish, catalans, etc.

I agree.

However, I like to know the truth of things. I myself didn't believe the theory of him being a Catalan, until more than one source dealt with it. The language and writing seem to certainly point at his first language being Catalan, but this does not necessarily mean he was. Other language traits point at Portuguese. Theories are not always incompatible. He could have been a crypto-Jew, born in Genoa, grown up among Catalan sailors and learned very good Portuguese as an adult when he moved to Portugal and married Filipa Moniz. :) All these things have been detected by experts in the many mistakes of his writings in Spanish.

But as I said, I agree with you. The conquest of the Americas was a Castilian thing, not even Spanish, and the flags they carried with them were the Castilian-Leonese and this Green Cross one, probably the first to be planted on there:

http://www.banderasmilitares.com/images/espa_mari_colon_1492.gif?0.3050828406482739

[Gimpicus]

No need for 23andMe. I do have Polish blood, but I' glad it accounts for less than 1% of my ancestry. :P
Judging by your ethnicity box, you're part Lithuanian. Chances are you have some Polish blood.

[Smaug]

Judging by your ethnicity box, you're part Lithuanian. Chances are you have some Polish blood.

Yes I do :thumb001:

[pinguino]

...But as I said, I agree with you. The conquest of the Americas was a Castilian thing, not even Spanish, and the flags they carried with them were the Castilian-Leonese and this Green Cross one, probably the first to be planted on there:

http://www.banderasmilitares.com/images/espa_mari_colon_1492.gif?0.3050828406482739

Green? Why green? In all the pictures Columbus ships are shown with the templar's RED cross.... What's going on?

[Twistedmind]

You didn't read my post and just hurried up to answer.
I hurried yes. After I red comparsion of Aztecs and Romans it was to much. Aztecs not left that much as Romans. Not in literature, not in poetry, not in jurisprudence.



How much do you know about Native Americans cultures and our civilizations?
Your civilisation is Spanish, Latin American, European. Sooner you accept it, it will be easier for you.



I admire Greeks, by the way. But venerating Romans, such a degenerate and cruel people, like you do, seems to me devastating.


Irony of all ironies. I am much more Greek influenced than you. Religiously culturally, in either way. Yes Greeks left much more to world culture than Romans. But your language is derived from Latin, all modern law systems in world are derived from Roman law (basic subject on all law schools)... not even troll full of hatred could deny it. PS Greeks are also Europeans, their culture is in foundation fo Europe. :picard1:

On other hand what do you know about Greeks, Pythagoras, Anaximandros, Heraclites, Socrates, Homer, Pythias? You read some of Plato's dialogues or something from Aristotle? I dont think so. On countrary I did.

[RussiaPrussia]

Exactly. Columbus discover the Americas FOR the Europeans only.

(1) Siberian-related people entered the Americas around 12.000 years ago and a thousand year later had settled everything, from Alaska to the Land of Fire.

(2) The ancestors of Inuits entered reached Alaska from Asia around 3000 years ago, and from there they conquered the arctic, reaching Greenland around 1000 A.D.

(3) Leif Ericson reached Newfoundland at 1.000 A.D. and Columbus knew about it.

The only extraordinary thing Columbus did was reaching the Americas from Europe through the equator, which wasn't a minor feat... in Eurasia, of course. Polynesians had done more impressive sailings in the Pacific long time before.

lJCYo-4UPlo

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/new-evidence-suggests-stone-age-hunters-from-europe-discovered-america-7447152.html

[pinguino]

I hurried yes. After I red comparsion of Aztecs and Romans it was to much. Aztecs not left that much as Romans. Not in literature, not in poetry, not in jurisprudence.


That's yours problem, Twistedmind, you have not much knowledge about our continent's heritage. For instance, you could start studying Nezahualcoyotl and his poetry, all the body of Mayan writing that has been deciphered, the chronicles of the Conquest, The Popol Vuh and the Chilam Balam, and a huge body of scientific studies of the zone. Otherwise, there won't have a base of comparison.



Your civilisation is Spanish, Latin American, European. Sooner you accept it, it will be easier for you.


Our civilization is Latin American, with a Spanish and Native roots, but also with a strong influence of the United States and other modern superpowers. We are a modern country, which doesn't means we should be considered western; much than Japanese or Chinese are Western.



Irony of all ironies. I am much more Greek influenced than you. Religiously culturally, in either way. Yes Greeks left much more to world culture than Romans. But your language is derived from Latin, all modern law systems in world are derived from Roman law (basic subject on all law schools)... not even troll full of hatred could deny it. PS Greeks are also Europeans, their culture is in foundation fo Europe. :picard1:


Comparing Greeks with Romans is like comparing pears and apples. Greeks are the roots of western civilization. Romans were just good engineers and jurists. Theirs influence is interesting, but why should we venerate a people from so far away? Nonsense. Americans are Roman lovers, but in our culture Romans are described as the killers of Christ and the persecutors of early Christians. A brutal people.



On other hand what do you know about Greeks, Pythagoras, Anaximandros, Heraclites, Socrates, Homer, Pythias? You read some of Plato's dialogues or something from Aristotle? I dont think so. On countrary I did.

Perhaps I know more about them than you do. I am a fanatic of math and physics history, and I know most of the Greek characters related to it. And I have not only read Homer's Iliad, but I have published a book with quotes about it. With respect to Archimedes, not only I know his importance in math but also in esoteric schools. So don't assume yours knowledge of Greek culture is better than mine. The important point in here is that your knowledge of Native American cultures is very poor. Respectfully, recognize it, and fix it, before starting an argument.

[Caismeachd]

There's also this as well. Good for a laugh

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/4959361/Christopher-Columbus-was-actually-a-Scotsman-called-Pedro-Scotto-historian-says.html

[pinguino]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/new-evidence-suggests-stone-age-hunters-from-europe-discovered-america-7447152.html

Very funny. That's a thesis that has no support in reality. The Solutreans are baloney. It is just another more of those phoney hypothesis of contact with the Americas, so common all over the place.
The real fact is that in ours archeology there is no evidence of Europeans in here before 1000 A.D., when the Norse Leif Ericsson reached Newfoundland.

But as Russian, you would love to know all the natives of the Americas descend from a small group of Siberians.

[pinguino]

There's also this as well. Good for a laugh

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/4959361/Christopher-Columbus-was-actually-a-Scotsman-called-Pedro-Scotto-historian-says.html

That's curious. There is a story registered by Columbus' son in his father's bio, that he saw Inuits or Native Americans in a raft outside the coast of Ireland... Before coming to the Americas... In Galway there is even a statue about it :confused:

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/11660843.jpg

[Aunt Hilda]

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-11-29/news/27082747_1_christopher-columbus-book-claims-wool-weaver

if he had royal blood, I doubt he was polish. It's more likely he was of mixed ethnic background (only some of it polish)

[Atlantic Islander]

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h157/animebooklover/0100/vgh/lollerskate_zpsb4829b34.gifhttp://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h157/animebooklover/0100/vgh/lollerskate_zpsb4829b34.gifhttp://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h157/animebooklover/0100/vgh/lollerskate_zpsb4829b34.gif

[Linet]

The Spanish lies should end now http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/raccoon/bottle-raccoon-emoticon.gif?1302774067 ....Colombus was Greek http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/raccoon/crazy-dance-raccoon-emoticon.gif?1302774068, we all know that http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/ahaaah-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862489

[Balmung]

You can't discover a land that was already discovered. If we're going by "first Europeans" he wasn't the first either.

[Don Diego de Vargas]

Yeah and the ancient egyptians were black sub Saharan Africans :rolleyes:

[Linet]

Yeah and the ancient egyptians were black sub Saharan Africans :rolleyes:

true :thumb001:

[pinguino]

Yeah and the ancient egyptians were black sub Saharan Africans :rolleyes:

Is not the same, the first European in the Americas and the first European born in the Americas were Norse; not Spanish or Italian. That's something science has already shown. Columbus is a fraud. :picard1:

[Don Diego de Vargas]

Is not the same, the first European in the Americas and the first European born in the Americas were Norse; not Spanish or Italian. That's something science has already shown. Columbus is a fraud. :picard1:

So what if he was a norse?

What great things did this Norse man or these nords do to show they were the first explorers to discover land unseen to europeans? Scratch some symbols on a stone in Canada? ROFL. He did nothing Because he was probably incapable of it.

The main difference lies in the fact that the Spanish left a cultural and genetic legacy over the entire American continent before any other Europeans.

Capables versus the incapables.

And don't give me any of that Black legend crap popularly propagated by the Anglo-Saxon man.

[pinguino]

So what if he was a norse?

What great things did this Norse man or these nords do to show they were the first explorers to discover land unseen to europeans? Scratch some symbols on a stone in Canada? ROFL. He did nothing Because he was probably incapable of it.


The Norse did great things. They were a very dynamic people, up to the time Christianity destroyed them. And for Canada, Spanish are superfluous. For them, the Norse were the first Europeans in the Americas, and they are right.



The main difference lies in the fact that the Spanish left a cultural and genetic legacy over the entire American continent before any other Europeans.

Capables versus the incapables.


You left us nothing. And if you did, we pay for it ten times its real value. So, don't be proud of something here it is worthless.



And don't give me any of that Black legend crap popularly propagated by the Anglo-Saxon man.

The Black legend is not enough to describe the Spanish brutality in the Americas.

[Comte Arnau]

Is not the same, the first European in the Americas and the first European born in the Americas were Norse; not Spanish or Italian. That's something science has already shown. Columbus is a fraud. :picard1:

Some things have been going on for years and they only became public knowledge when they appeared on TV.

By 'discovering' it just means that they made the Americas known to a world audience.

[B01AB20]

Columbus gas Galician... 100 reasons.

http://www.cristobal-colon.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/ColonGallego100razones.jpg

one more...

in spanish.
http://www.cristobal-colon.com/colon-gallego/

[Damião de Góis]

Tras el retorno de su primer viaje en marzo de 1493, Cristóbal Colón escribe a los Reyes: “Ahora, serenísimos príncipes, acuerde V.A. que yo dejé mujer e hijos al inicio de este viaje del cual retorno ahora y vine de mi tierra a le servir cuando arribé a Castilla…”. Según todos los historiadores Cristóbal Colón residió, al menos, nueve años en Portugal. Por lo tanto cuando llegó a Castilla lo hizo desde Portugal, por lo tanto llama a Portugal “su tierra”.

lol...

[pinguino]

Christopher Columbus a Gallician? Ha ha. That explains everything. LOL.

[B01AB20]

Christopher Columbus a Gallician? Ha ha. That explains everything. LOL.

Pinguino you think mocking spaniards and euros every single opportunity you have makes you a witty and brave anti-eurocentrist fighter, but mainly what you do is focusing attention over us constantly.

What is the common ground between an obssesed eurocentrist and an obssesed anti-eurocentrist?
Europe, of course.


See here is a representation of a 'gallego' and some pinguinos around him.

http://web.educastur.princast.es/proyectos/formadultos/latierra/imagenes/planetas.jpg

[pinguino]

Pinguino you think mocking spaniards and euros every single opportunity you have makes you a witty and brave anti-eurocentrist fighter, but mainly what you do is focusing attention over us constantly.


A song for Columbus, and Spain! :D

fyqSRBFmRc0

[Don Diego de Vargas]

Yes you're obsession with the Spanish is rather sad penguino. I guess the Latin American obsession with Spain has not changed. Latin americans were left to their own devices long ago, yet we still have poor sad people like pinguino obsessing. :picard1:

[pinguino]

Yes you're obsession with the Spanish is rather sad penguino. I guess the Latin American obsession with Spain has not changed. Latin americans were left to their own devices long ago, yet we still have poor sad people like pinguino obsessing. :picard1:

But you still call our people "Sudaca". Isn't Manolo?

[Don Diego de Vargas]

But you still call our people "Sudaca". Isn't Manolo?

I have never referred to a south American as a sudaca, or felt hatred toward a south american simply on the basis that they are south american. Perhaps other spaniards do.

You Would be wise to not judge people as a whole group, but rather as individuals. This is why I find your vehement opposition and hatred to all spaniards comical.

[pinguino]

Well, if you aren't part of the Spanish trolls (Labarú, Cristiano Viejo, et al) my excuses.

I don't feel bad about Spain actually, but only fool around with Spanish narrow minded nationalists.

[B01AB20]

But you still call our people "Sudaca". Isn't Manolo?

And here he goes again...
But WHYYYYYY is so important to you is SOME people in Spain use 'sudaca' when they talk about people like you?

I've not found yet any spaniard who cares about what we are called abroad, and well, we are called with very sounding and varied names abroad. But that's all, why such a trauma?

[pinguino]

But WHYYYYYY is so important to you is SOME people in Spain use 'sudaca' when they talk about people like you?


You have no idea how the image of Spain in Latin America has declined in the last 30 years! In old times we considered Spain our "Mother Land". Now, after so much racism against Latin America in Spain, and the continuous repetition of the term "Sudaca", which make the news, we sort of consider Spain "The Whore of Babilon" :picard1:

[Graus]

Columbus wasnt the first European on American soil. However the discovery of the Vikings was soon reduced to another saga among many. If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it does it make a sound? The answer is: of course but it also doesnt matter.

[B01AB20]

You have no idea how the image of Spain in Latin America has declined in the last 30 years! In old times we considered Spain our "Mother Land". Now, after so much racism against Latin America in Spain, and the continuous repetition of the term "Sudaca", which make the news, we sort of consider Spain "The Whore of Babilon" :picard1:

Exactly, I have no idea and I don't care much about it, it's the world spinning around and this bad image will not be there forever, but thanks for the information.
Anyway you're a too much sensitive people, and too much sensitivity produces fragile psiques; it's not normal that a simple word can affect people the way you say, I don't know if I can believe the things you say.

[pinguino]

Exactly, I have no idea and I don't care much about it, it's the world spinning around and this bad image will not be there forever, but thanks for the information.
...

The problem is that you will pay for it. Many people here is just happy Spain is going down. Don't count with allies in the New World, anymore.

[Heart of Oak]

dont talk shit, Spain is Okay...

[pinguino]

Ha ha. The answer was censored? Spain is going down.

[Peterski]

I might be his distant relative, because it turns out that I belong to the "Iberian" subclade, R1b-M225 (or FGC31068).