Mordvins on G25

[axlredneck]

https://youtu.be/wOPYIPlJQDI


Mordvins is an official term used in the Russian Federation to refer both to Erzyas and Mokshas since 1928.

[axlredneck]

https://i.ibb.co/fGL16XT/IMG-20240511-160538.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/7QN5JKD/IMG-20240511-150340.jpg

[axlredneck]

Mordovian,0.1265713,0.08209538,0.07344806,0.065291 22,0.02274876,0.02058214,0.00951318,0.01253494,-0.00525626,-0.0281045,0.00080872,-0.00939058,0.0186361,0.01407332,-0.01171262,-0.00055686,0.00282676,-0.001239,0.00018594,-0.00093798,-0.00264034,-0.002933,0.00304912,-0.00455476,0.0016908
Slavic,0.13530887,0.12444321,0.07143567,0.06518986 ,0.03764093,0.02485373,0.00969281,0.01269561,-0.00408213,-0.026298,-0.00248618,-0.01008927,0.01877146,0.02483099,-0.01247462,0.00094532,0.00423858,-0.00056622,0.00404822,0.00120827,-0.00357371,-0.00463129,0.00784792,-0.00625033,0.00204682
Volga-Oka,0.1152459,0.0307198,0.0921116,0.088179,0.00261 58,0.0160015,0.0117212,0.0158648,-0.00565,-0.0413678,0.0132145,-0.0100972,0.0231725,0.0002409,-0.0129442,-0.00121,0.0021512,-0.001346,-0.0039438,0.002345,0.0038838,-0.0019321,0.0021412,-0.0068834,0.0008382
Volga_Finnic,0.1024408,-0.04773,0.0934422,0.0630568,-0.0287233,0.0011776,0.0121423,0.0169481,-0.0046359,-0.0395451,0.0262348,-0.0136212,0.032408,-0.0387942,-0.0353024,-0.0232179,-0.0010141,-0.0094312,-0.0397483,-0.0328769,0.0142664,0.0046851,-0.0482857,0.0098809,-0.0015034
Bulgar,0.084119876,-0.118595418,0.05901723,0.046310419,-0.042154409,0.003855616,0.004359184,0.005337431,-0.014501437,-0.022589362,-0.001269083,-0.000522848,0.004474411,-0.023339704,0.010641155,0.002901193,-0.005140344,-0.001126154,-0.000489356,-0.00018898,-0.012286608,0.004540023,-0.000596032,0.001580675,0.001751614
Russian_Kaluga,0.1320348,0.1180555,0.0774042,0.066 215,0.03593,0.0239147,0.0060512,0.0136722,-0.0048065,-0.0235995,0.0009335,-0.011315,0.0194002,0.0254258,-0.0118078,-0.0046408,0.0013365,-0.003579,0.0006282,0.0054715,0.0003745,-0.001762,-0.0002465,-0.0061755,0.0006885
https://i.ibb.co/TT8PvTJ/IMG-20240511-150205.png

[axlredneck]

Mordvin Y-DNA (n=200)

C - 1%
E - 3.5%
G - 5.5%
I - 12.5%
J2 - 16.5%
N - 12%
R1a - 38%
R1b - 10.5%
T - 0.5%

[axlredneck]

Bulgar / Volga Tatar Y-lineages in Mordvins

Caucasus origin
https://yfull.com/tree/G-Z7941/
https://yfull.com/tree/G-Y181188/

Balkan origin
https://yfull.com/tree/J-Y12000/

Anatolian origin
https://yfull.com/tree/J-Y24510/

Bulgar origin
https://yfull.com/tree/J-Y15603/
https://yfull.com/tree/R-FGC56408/

[Leto]

So they're 75% Slavic? Good grief, you gotta be shitting me! :eek: To be honest, I think their base must be some kind of Indo-European/Aryanic, maybe Fatyanovo-Balanovo type of stuff. There's no way mass assimilation of Old Russians into proto-Mordovians could've taken place in medieval times.

[axlredneck]

Bulgar / Volga Tatar Y-lineages in Mordvins

Anatolian origin

https://yfull.com/live/tree/J-Y279801/

[axlredneck]

https://i.ibb.co/RcmYmSV/IMG-20240707-171549.jpg

[axlredneck]

The Mordvins are divided into two ethnic subgroup and three further subgroups:

the Erzya people or Erzyans, speakers of the Erzya language.

the Moksha people, speakers of the Moksha language.

the Shoksha or Tengushevo Mordvins constitute a transitional group between the Erzya and Moksha people.

the Karatai Mordvins or Qaratays live in the Republic of Tatarstan. They no longer speak a Volga-Finnic language but have assimilated with Tatars.

the Teryukhan Mordvins live near Nizhny Novgorod had been completely Russified by 1900 and today unambiguously identify as ethnic Russians.

[Russki]

You really just ignored what Leto said and kept doing it wrong.

[axlredneck]

You really just ignored what Leto said and kept doing it wrong.

Why is assimilation of Slavs by Mordvins seen as impossible? All Volga-Ural ethnicities have Slavic ancestry.

[axlredneck]

You really just ignored what Leto said and kept doing it wrong.

This is what Leto said elsewhere:


And the Mordovians are practically Russians anyway, only a subtle difference between the two.

[axlredneck]

...

[Russki]

Why is assimilation of Slavs by Mordvins seen as impossible? All Volga-Ural ethnicities have Slavic ancestry.


Because Russians never had incentive in adopting Mordovian identity. In a mixed marriage where one parent is Russian and another parent is Mordovian their children are almost always going to identify as Russian.

According to a recent linguistic research Mordovian languages are linguistically closer to Finnish and Estonian than to the Mari language.

https://www.su.se/polopoly_fs/1.356081.1510165947!/menu/standard/file/FUS2016-15_06a-PSP-Final.pdf

They originate from ancient Finno-Mordovian community which was genetically much closer to Europeans (primarily Balto-Slavs) than to other Uralic peoples. The European base of this Finno-Mordovian community is the Corded Ware culture.

[axlredneck]

Because Russians never had incentive in adopting Mordovian identity. In a mixed marriage where one parent is Russian and another parent is Mordovian their children are almost always going to identify as Russian.

According to a recent linguistic research Mordovian languages are linguistically closer to Finnish and Estonian than to the Mari language.

https://www.su.se/polopoly_fs/1.356081.1510165947!/menu/standard/file/FUS2016-15_06a-PSP-Final.pdf

They originate from ancient Finno-Mordovian community which was genetically much closer to Europeans (primarily Balto-Slavs) than to other Uralic peoples. The European base of this Finno-Mordovian community is the Corded Ware culture.

Alright!

[Leto]

This is what Leto said elsewhere:
Today yes. But my critique of your model is valid. I don't think the proto-Mordovians would've somehow managed to assimilate many Russians/East Slavs into their community, especially to the point where that component became dominant. When approximately did that take place? They didn't even have a genuine state.