NE Georgians on G25

[axlredneck]

https://youtu.be/3lxrwYLj-mY

https://youtu.be/Bp7p2pjczMg

A thread dedicated to the genetics of NE Georgians from Tusheti, Khevsureti and Mtskheta-Mtianeti.

[axlredneck]

https://i.ibb.co/vJyzWtq/IMG-20240530-205423.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/9yC4LF5/IMG-20240530-205435.jpg

[axlredneck]

Georgian_NE_11,0.1123743,0.1230637,-0.0428889,-0.0254583,-0.038189,0.0005577,0.0087379,-0.0043845,-0.0544221,-0.0239556,0.0004429,0.0096732,-0.01865,-0.0019643,0.0068229,-0.0128974,0.0024415,-0.003029,-0.0058622,0.0099366,0.0056378,0.0008095,0.0019607, 0.0007995,-0.0006641
Nakh,0.11461535,0.11334325,-0.03241223,-0.00735409,-0.04102644,0.00734323,0.01018083,-0.00382673,-0.05769892,-0.03191578,-0.00034286,0.00926391,-0.01977879,-0.00583386,0.01170536,-0.01035249,0.00267804,-0.0033093,-0.00645919,0.01130132,0.00613741,0.00190942,0.0040 3922,0.00518919,0.00040734
Iberian,0.10945164,0.1357406,-0.05655202,-0.04906886,-0.03448856,-0.00829163,0.00685611,-0.00511191,-0.05014864,-0.01357435,0.00146765,0.01020697,-0.01717789,0.00308218,0.00045545,-0.01621634,0.00213302,-0.00266345,-0.00508364,0.0081568,0.00498623,-0.00062496,-0.00075,-0.0049253,-0.00206142

[axlredneck]

http://www.batsav.com/images/myphotos/web_wedding1.jpg
The Batsbi are one of the four historical communities of Tusheti, a mountainous region of north-eastern Georgia. These communities, each made up of around a dozen villages and hamlets, are named after the valleys they inhabit:
— the villages of the "Gometsari" Tush in the valley of the Tushetis Alazani River;
— the "Pirikiti" from the valley of the Pirikitis Alazani River;
— the "Chaghma" from the Chaghma Basin (around Omalo); and
— the "Tsova" from the gorge of the Tsovatistsq'ali River (a tributary of the Tushetis Alazani).

The Batsbi—whose language, Batsbur mot', points to a probable Nakh origin (i.e. related to the Chechens and the Ingush)—are believed to have migrated to the Tsova Gorge in the XVIIth century. There they settled, living in eight fortified villages typical of the region until the early XIXth century, when they abandoned their homes and moved down to the plain of Alvani at the western end of Kakheti, where they live to this day.

Who are the Batsbi? (http://www.batsav.com/pages/thebatsbi.htm)

[Demirkazık]

Very Lchashen-Metsamor like admixture.

[axlredneck]

https://www.batsav.com/images/myphotos/dadaloba02.jpg
Dadaloba (Batsbur: დადალობა) is a pagan feast held every year in the meadows of Tsovata, the ancestral homeland of the Batsbi people. The Batsbi have long been bilingual in both Batsbur (a north Caucasian language related to Chechen and Ingush) and Georgian (a south Caucasian language completely unrelated to the first), and the word "dadaloba" comes from the Batsbur noun "dal", "God", to which the Georgian suffix "-oba", "the event of", has been added.

Source: Dadaloba (https://www.batsav.com/pages/dadaloba.htm)

[axlredneck]

https://i.ibb.co/9yC4LF5/IMG-20240530-205435.jpg

Iberian is Colchian + Armenian,
Nakh is Dagestani + Koban.

[axlredneck]

Can Georgian members share videos from the region on this thread? Thanks.

[Leto]

I've watched the second video from the OP, some of those kids are very swarthy. Are they considered true Georgians?

[Valenman]

Ahiska Iberian?

[axlredneck]

NE Georgian Y-lines (n=291)

J-CTS6804 x95
J-Y12378 x78
I-Y16419 x29
G-Z6653 x20
J-Z1842 x17
R-Z93 x12
J-Z500 x9
R-Z2103 x8
G-Y18479 x5
J-M92 x3
E-M35 x3
J-Z7671 x2
J-Y11200 x2
J-P58 x2
T-M70
J-L24
I-Z58
G-M3115
G-L1266

[axlredneck]

Ahiska Iberian?

Ahiska Iberian = Meskhetian Turks sans Turkish.
https://i.ibb.co/VJCQC4Q/IMG-20231224-191729.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/3YPnC8v/IMG-20231224-191645.jpg


Turkish_Ahiska,0.1079374,0.1276848,-0.052588,-0.0472861,-0.0336685,-0.0088097,0.0048516,-0.0064801,-0.0465016,-0.0117451,0.0011,0.0090144,-0.0154432,0.003042,-0.0001591,-0.0141246,0.0018883,-0.0022057,-0.0042621,0.006712,0.0041719,-0.0003002,-0.0009313,-0.0045873,-0.0018809
pre-Turkish,0.109451643,0.1357406,-0.056552029,-0.049068857,-0.034488557,-0.008291629,0.0068561,-0.005111914,-0.050148643,-0.013574357,0.001467643,0.010206971,-0.017177886,0.003082171,0.000455457,-0.016216343,0.002133014,-0.002663443,-0.005083643,0.0081568,0.004986229,-0.000624957,-0.00075,-0.0049253,-0.002061414
Turkish,0.0973377,0.0712942,-0.0248398,-0.0348068,-0.0279281,-0.0124362,-0.0091799,-0.0160574,-0.0209723,0.0010597,-0.0014735,0.0006664,-0.0033004,0.0027608,-0.004461,0.0005176,0.0001753,0.0009985,0.0014887,-0.0034016,-0.0015284,0.0019731,-0.0022004,-0.0022213,-0.0006173

[Demirkazık]

Can you try to add this Caucasian Albanian into your substractions? It's from this paper -> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982222018243


Caucasian_Albanian:zrj003,0.100164,0.106631,-0.054682,-0.012274,-0.046778,0.001952,-0.003995,-0.003923,-0.04704,-0.014579,-0.002761,0.005545,-0.012042,0.00812,0.014115,0.002121,-0.005737,0.000127,0.004902,-0.013506,-0.004492,0.003957,-0.006655,0.004579,-0.008143

[axlredneck]

Can you try to add this Caucasian Albanian into your substractions? It's from this paper -> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982222018243


Caucasian_Albanian:zrj003,0.100164,0.106631,-0.054682,-0.012274,-0.046778,0.001952,-0.003995,-0.003923,-0.04704,-0.014579,-0.002761,0.005545,-0.012042,0.00812,0.014115,0.002121,-0.005737,0.000127,0.004902,-0.013506,-0.004492,0.003957,-0.006655,0.004579,-0.008143

https://i.ibb.co/WVSvgmm/IMG-20240530-224607.jpg

His non-Lezgic side is Persian like.

[Demirkazık]

His non-Lezgic side is Persian like.

Fascinating stuff, it's also in-line with history. The individual is from the later periods of Caucasian Albania, and it's Iranic ancestry is from Atropatene I assume.

[Frowning Man]

I've watched the second video from the OP, some of those kids are very swarthy. Are they considered true Georgians?

In the mountains, people are darker, there is very strong sun (ultraviolet radiation, solar radiation), therefore people there are more tanned, plus they work a lot under the sun. Whether you look Georgian or not, you need to look at the shape and features of the face.

Northeastern Georgians are Georgians in the male line and the women they kidnapped from the North Caucasus (Chechens and Dagestanis). In the Middle Ages they did this very often, from these women and a high % of the steppe

[axlredneck]

In the mountains, people are darker, there is very strong sun (ultraviolet radiation, solar radiation), therefore people there are more tanned, plus they work a lot under the sun. Whether you look Georgian or not, you need to look at the shape and features of the face.

Northeastern Georgians are Georgians in the male line and the women they kidnapped from the North Caucasus (Chechens and Dagestanis). In the Middle Ages they did this very often, from these women and a high % of the steppe

40% of the Y-lineages are of Nakh origin.

[Frowning Man]

40% of the Y-lineages are of Nakh origin.

This is so far, the mountains of the northeast are poorly tested. And for some reason the results of late settlers from the North Caucasus living in Georgia are attributed to the haplogroups of northeastern Georgia: the Kists and the Batsbis, who have nothing to do with these regions, just as they have nothing to do with the Georgians in general. This is a completely different ethnic group (not ethnic Georgians). Their results should not be added to the Northeast Georgians at all.

[axlredneck]

This is so far, the mountains of the northeast are poorly tested. And for some reason the results of late settlers from the North Caucasus living in Georgia are attributed to the haplogroups of northeastern Georgia: the Kists and the Batsbis, who have nothing to do with these regions, just as they have nothing to do with the Georgians in general. This is a completely different ethnic group (not ethnic Georgians). Their results should not be added to the Northeast Georgians at all.

I don't think Kists have been included.
I sourced the Y-lineages from this site: https://genetica.herokuapp.com/?fbclid=IwAR1AQ_OntJv4uauq_w2Giqe3F2ySw_mLTZAoLDpt CAO88P9Hl-AFHo4b0mA

[axlredneck]

Forgot to include Pshavis:

J-Z500 x9
G-Z6653 x7
R-Z2103 x2
R-Z93 x2
J-Y12378 x2
J-CTS6804 x2
J-Z1842 x2
J-L24
G-M3115
G-L1266

[Leto]

In the mountains, people are darker, there is very strong sun (ultraviolet radiation, solar radiation), therefore people there are more tanned, plus they work a lot under the sun. Whether you look Georgian or not, you need to look at the shape and features of the face.

I've always thought it should be the opposite, highlanders would typically have higher rates of blondism or red-hairedness. One girl in that video (shown only briefly) looks like some of the darkest Armenians of Azeris, very black-assed by Russian standards.

[axlredneck]

NE Georgian Y-lines (n=348)

J-CTS6804 x106
J-Y12378 x84
I-Y16419 x32
G-Z6653 x28
J-Z1842 x22
J-Z500 x18
R-Z93 x16
R-Z2103 x10
G-Y18479 x6
J-M92 x6
E-M35 x4
J-Z7671 x2
J-Y11200 x2
J-P58 x2
J-L24 x2
I-Z58 x2
G-M3115 x2
G-L1266 x2
T-M70 x2

[Frowning Man]

I've always thought it should be the opposite, highlanders would typically have higher rates of blondism or red-hairedness. One girl in that video (shown only briefly) looks like some of the darkest Armenians of Azeris, very black-assed by Russian standards.

No, in Georgia the mountaineers are far from the most depigmented (light). In Georgia, the highest frequency of light eyes, blond or red hair is the plain of Western Georgia - Imereti, Megrelia, Guria and Lechkhumi (and according to research, this is one of the most depigmented regions of the North and South Caucasus), highlanders (Svans, Rachins, Khevsurs, Pshavy, Tushin, Mokhovtsy, Mtiul) are noticeably darker. And from the point of view of logic and experience, in the mountains the sun is much more aggressive than on the plain.

And you will find dark-skinned people like that girl everywhere, among any people in the Caucasus.

[interes]

I've always thought it should be the opposite, highlanders would typically have higher rates of blondism or red-hairedness. One girl in that video (shown only briefly) looks like some of the darkest Armenians of Azeris, very black-assed by Russian standards.

yes georgians mountainers are darkers much darkers than west georgians( imeretins , megrelians and gurians and some adjarians ) and bit darkers than east georgians ( kartlins ) maybe lighter only than kakhetians . only khevsurians and svans are more lighter .


Georgian mountaneers tushetians

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/Groom_wearing_a_chokha_on_a_Tushetian_wedding.jpg


https://photos1.blogger.com/img/277/5632/640/friendlyhirten.jpg


https://shepherdslife.info/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/tuscheti-750x563.jpg

https://shepherdslife.info/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/23-shiraki-13-badri-1-of-1_49411591898_o.jpg


https://georgiaabout.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/man-drinking-from-a-khantsi.jpg?w=584

https://c7.alamy.com/comp/C03J50/men-eating-madoloba-celebration-on-the-festival-grounds-girevi-tusheti-C03J50.jpg

they are tushetians ( N.east georgians ) and they are much darkers than west georgians , w.georgians never like this .



imeretins from kutaisi ":


https://scontent.ftbs3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/444203523_873979604774600_365053997455471145_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=jwQG1AtS4oIQ7kNvgG6Gq4B&_nc_ht=scontent.ftbs3-2.fna&oh=00_AYAQqDcSL9ly1ydDb85970FO_MS-QF4xJSvDqVnpf-z-Gg&oe=665FD38A


https://scontent.ftbs3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/441523091_873979948107899_1094225836384879587_n.jp g?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=czTZsa5-GEkQ7kNvgGEPwL5&_nc_ht=scontent.ftbs3-2.fna&oh=00_AYBo1f-UqqbCkJmST_ec-0ctWce67qaGoDTSJM1je3dicw&oe=665FE4BB



Megrelians from tsalenjikha :

https://scontent.ftbs3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/427989986_849165963909872_7662756434198060764_n.jp g?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=krjUEeiHltgQ7kNvgEUOaTt&_nc_ht=scontent.ftbs3-2.fna&oh=00_AYD5h2GDcAOOzQnqwDwAeRLA_UKAOJl9AaN1p6Iuzf7M-g&oe=665FD751


https://scontent.ftbs3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/441931391_834922102000925_5696724313897488916_n.jp g?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_aid=0&_nc_ohc=FoV8DYtD8lIQ7kNvgHoGWKM&_nc_ht=scontent.ftbs3-1.fna&oh=00_AYBQWSwtNVsvhr2s2GwwE_l8NgkrmtjipeMpPFZT9nJ-7A&oe=665FFB86


https://scontent.ftbs3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/391651420_706913948135075_5006077514705464763_n.jp g?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=OuAvyJSfplkQ7kNvgFdUxTW&_nc_ht=scontent.ftbs3-1.fna&oh=00_AYCb0fUxILkpQ6SdixG_UPwxVgdJx5g65JIWE0QDqKfX aQ&oe=665FED33


https://scontent.ftbs3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/436277254_815231510636651_5090355942437897308_n.jp g?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=SWXw94cciLYQ7kNvgGayV0L&_nc_ht=scontent.ftbs3-2.fna&oh=00_AYDc6qNknR7Eb6uJL_3voPj1hmIOnoxunWDly1Od8PI_ wg&oe=665FFA7F


so . west georgians are lighter than east and mountaneer goergians . all stats pantiukhov and abdushelishvile to .

georgian mountaners are black-assed by Russian standards yes :) and look like more Northen caucaisans and some abkhazians ( especial abkhazian girls are black -assed to me)

[Leto]

Interesting. Well, the darker Georgians should be more like Armenians who are without a doubt the second-darkest nation in the region (after Azerbaijan). For example Chechnya is full of light people, just look at the Kadyrov family.

By the way, on Gedmatch I've seen quite a few Georgians with obvious Russian ancestry. Like 1/4 or 1/8 Russian, sometimes even half. Is that really common in modern Georgia? Russians used be like 10 percent of the population back in the 1980s but now supposedly below 1 percent (excluding the recently arrived ones).

[interes]

Interesting. Well, the darker Georgians should be more like Armenians who are without a doubt the second-darkest nation in the region (after Azerbaijan). For example Chechnya is full of light people, just look at the Kadyrov family.

By the way, on Gedmatch I've seen quite a few Georgians with obvious Russian ancestry. Like 1/4 or 1/8 Russian, sometimes even half. Is that really common in modern Georgia? Russians used be like 10 percent of the population back in the 1980s but now supposedly below 1 percent (excluding the recently arrived ones).

what kadirov? :) its only some chechens most chechens are darker than most w. georgians all knows this .

Georgians are mixed ( russian , ukrainian , armenian or azeris ) but lighter georgians who look like some time russian have not slavic blood mostly on90% the are mostly from west georgia . in cherkesia maykop living 50% and 50% adyg people but they are darker to and some time look like more mongoloids than russian or other caucasians . batumi adjaria slavs ukrainians and russians and belorussians living more than 15% but adjarians are darkest west georgians : D they are darker than gurian megrelian or imeretins .

p.s now slavic population in batumi maybe more than 50%

[Leto]

Just to be clear, this is the girl I was talking about. She is dark like some Tajik! :eek: And it's winter in the video, so she's not even tanned, straight up brown
https://i.ibb.co/gV2m4kd/Screenshot-20240531-220045-1.png
https://i.ibb.co/86FQSVy/Screenshot-20240531-220215.png

[Leto]

what kadirov? :) its only some chechens most chechens are darker than most w. georgians all knows this .

Georgians are mixed ( russian , ukrainian , armenian or azeris ) but lighter georgians who look like some time russian have not slavic blood mostly on90% the are mostly from west georgia . in cherkesia maykop living 50% and 50% adyg people but they are darker to and some time look like more mongoloids than russian or other caucasians . batumi adjaria slavs ukrainians and russians and belorussians living more than 15% but adjarians are darkest west georgians : D they are darker than gurian megrelian or imeretins .

p.s now slavic population in batumi maybe more than 50%
Recently arrived foreigners do not count, I was talking about Georgians with one Russian grandparent or even further down the line.
The Circassians do have Turkic admixture, up to 10 percent East Eurasian/Mongoloid. Just like the Karachay Balkars.
Kadyrov is not the only light Chechen, red beards and gray eyes are quite common among the Chechens which leads many Westerners to view them as "white Muslims".

[interes]

Recently arrived foreigners do not count, I was talking about Georgians with one Russian grandparent or even further down the line.
The Circassians do have Turkic admixture, up to 10 percent East Eurasian/Mongoloid. Just like the Karachay Balkars.
Kadyrov is not the only light Chechen, red beards and gray eyes are quite common among the Chechens which leads many Westerners to view them as "white Muslims".

now in batumi many georgians with slavic blood( ukrainian and russian) and they ar from russia or ukrain ( they are also Recently arrived ).
40% circassians look like mongoloid not 10% :) they dont look like west georgians , only some abkhazians look like west goergians .

[Frowning Man]

By the way, on Gedmatch I've seen quite a few Georgians with obvious Russian ancestry. Like 1/4 or 1/8 Russian, sometimes even half. Is that really common in modern Georgia? Russians used be like 10 percent of the population back in the 1980s but now supposedly below 1 percent (excluding the recently arrived ones).

Honestly, it's hard to say. Mixed mostly Georgians from Russia. And even of the Georgians I know in Russia, 90% are purebred Georgians, 10% are mixed.
Of my Georgian friends in Georgia - 99% are purebred Georgians, since the overwhelming number of my Georgian friends from Georgia are guys from very mono-ethnic regions, where 99% of the population are only Georgians (Megrelia, Imereti, Svaneti, Racha, Lechkhumi, Guria, Khevsureti) - These are mostly very rural, orthodox and very conservative regions, where ancient Georgian customs and mentality are strongly preserved and the people are not very friendly.
For example, 10 generations of my ancestors lived in a neighboring village.
I have very few friends from Tbilisi and Adjara, but since these regions are very multinational, there will probably be many mixed Georgians there, including those with Russian or Ukrainian blood

[interes]

Honestly, it's hard to say. Mixed mostly Georgians from Russia. And even of the Georgians I know in Russia, 90% are purebred Georgians, 10% are mixed.
Of my Georgian friends in Georgia - 99% are purebred Georgians, since the overwhelming number of my Georgian friends from Georgia are guys from very mono-ethnic regions, where 99% of the population are only Georgians (Megrelia, Imereti, Svaneti, Racha, Lechkhumi, Guria, Khevsureti) - These are mostly very rural, orthodox and very conservative regions, where ancient Georgian customs and mentality are strongly preserved and the people are not very friendly.
For example, 10 generations of my ancestors lived in a neighboring village.
I have very few friends from Tbilisi and Adjara, but since these regions are very multinational, there will probably be many mixed Georgians there, including those with Russian or Ukrainian blood

imeretins from kutaisi are mixed with ukrainian russian or armenian more 15%

[Leto]

40% circassians look like mongoloid not 10% :) they dont look like west georgians , only some abkhazians look like west goergians .
No, I mean genetically speaking they are not more than 10 percent East Eurasian. And some sources have repeatedly claimed Circassians are some of the lightest Caucasians.

[Leto]

Honestly, it's hard to say. Mixed mostly Georgians from Russia. And even of the Georgians I know in Russia, 90% are purebred Georgians, 10% are mixed.
Of my Georgian friends in Georgia - 99% are purebred Georgians, since the overwhelming number of my Georgian friends from Georgia are guys from very mono-ethnic regions, where 99% of the population are only Georgians (Megrelia, Imereti, Svaneti, Racha, Lechkhumi, Guria, Khevsureti) - These are mostly very rural, orthodox and very conservative regions, where ancient Georgian customs and mentality are strongly preserved and the people are not very friendly.
For example, 10 generations of my ancestors lived in a neighboring village.
I have very few friends from Tbilisi and Adjara, but since these regions are very multinational, there will probably be many mixed Georgians there, including those with Russian or Ukrainian blood
Well, the thing is Tbilisi is the most important city in Georgia and home to 1/3rd of the population. In the first half of the 20th century ethnic Georgians were less than 50 percent of the population. Though I'm sure many Tbilisi residents of today are first or second generation Tbilisians.

[interes]

No, I mean genetically speaking they are not more than 10 percent East Eurasian. And some sources have repeatedly claimed Circassians are some of the lightest Caucasians.

yes circassians are lightest caucasians look like some ukrainia to me . circassians are much lighter than georgians 100% and look much euros

Circassians

https://scontent.ftbs3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/129117233_4674989629241580_2150248287002551553_n.j pg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=MN4rioJuDeUQ7kNvgHKAWe-&_nc_ht=scontent.ftbs3-2.fna&oh=00_AYDtahJufiA7u2cJQR4mJHYmRVpg_PwxlWRpP4fhSpKy Yw&oe=667D9471
https://penzavzglyad.ru/images/uploads/422324d3a4b9ea89333b8850cea6809f.jpg


https://www.shutterstock.com/shutterstock/photos/302177822/display_1500/stock-photo-dakhovsky-russia-july-the-girl-muslim-in-beautiful-national-adyghe-dresses-dances-302177822.jpg


https://scontent.ftbs3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/400781498_309406842036568_8946455861470622929_n.jp g?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=pJc7BAPGaroQ7kNvgHKiyOl&_nc_ht=scontent.ftbs3-1.fna&oh=00_AYC1jthYYKl57uccAN5BOT5ai1FtjBeQ_OlHDUIGYFlp 6Q&oe=665BE4B3

https://scontent.ftbs3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/367726128_254816357495617_4125171191815761966_n.jp g?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=_iNbx_tMPI4Q7kNvgHmB8BL&_nc_ht=scontent.ftbs3-1.fna&oh=00_AYDyR1i_zgkRDp9DevhMG0o97G-zHtPm9B0eocADsN-UAw&oe=665BDC83



average georgians


https://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44977000/jpg/_44977228_hands_afp.jpg[/QUOTE]