Xiongnu on G25 [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

axlredneck

06-20-2024, 05:06 PM

https://youtu.be/cubsSWp3RYY

The Xiongnu Empire, the Rise of the First Imperial Steppe Polity
https://i.ibb.co/QNnPYfB/IMG-20240620-221329.jpg

Arising from the prehistoric populations of the Eastern Steppe, large-scale polities began to develop during the late first millennium BCE. The Xiongnu was the first historically documented empire founded by pastoralists, and its establishment is considered a watershed event in the sociopolitical history of the Eastern Steppe. The Xiongnu held political dominance in East and Central Asia from the third century BCE through the first century CE. The cultural, linguistic, and genetic makeup of the people who constituted the Xiongnu empire has been of great interest, as has their relationship to other contemporaneous and subsequent nomadic groups on the Eastern Steppe.

axlredneck

06-20-2024, 05:07 PM

The Xiongnu were a tribal confederation of nomadic peoples who, according to ancient Chinese sources, inhabited the eastern Eurasian Steppe from the 3rd century BC to the late 1st century AD. Modu Chanyu, the supreme leader after 209 BC, founded the Xiongnu Empire.
After overthrowing their previous overlords, the Yuezhi, the Xiongnu became the dominant power on the steppes of East Asia, centred on the Mongolian Plateau.

Xiongnu Y-DNA: Q-Y145452 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-Y145452/) x2, R-YP1455 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP1455/), R-KMS45 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-KMS45/), R-PH155 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-PH155/)

Xiongnu_Core,0.0871931,-0.0946993,0.0423783,0.050953,-0.0480132,0.011963,0.001677,-0.0020299,-0.0229465,-0.0284779,-0.0084472,-0.0023843,0.0000857,-0.0221042,0.0177092,0.0042456,-0.0093362,-0.0002133,0.0017533,0.0012877,-0.0155712,0.0039349,-0.0011424,0.0066015,-0.0029837

https://i.ibb.co/PY7nz3h/IMG-20240620-215338.jpg

Xiongnu_west_Khovsgol:AST001,0.088782,-0.094444,0.039598,0.052649,-0.047086,0.017012,0.00658,0.001615,-0.019839,-0.029522,-0.012342,-0.007793,-0.007879,-0.020231,0.017779,-0.010872,-0.035464,-0.003547,0.008547,-0.001126,-0.021587,0.005935,-0.003328,0.006386,-0.002395
Xiongnu_west_Khovsgol:SKT001,0.08992,-0.066009,0.027907,0.063308,-0.054472,0.01757,0.003525,-0.001154,-0.037632,-0.038634,-0.008769,-0.001049,-0.000297,-0.022845,0.020765,0.017104,0.004824,-0.00114,-0.008296,-0.003377,-0.010856,0.003339,0.003574,0.017352,-0.003952
Xiongnu_west_Khovsgol:SKT003,0.088782,-0.06804,0.039598,0.052003,-0.048932,0.017849,0.00423,-0.004846,-0.017385,-0.034807,-0.010555,-0.004646,-0.002676,-0.014038,0.020494,-0.013524,-0.030119,0.007728,0.003897,-0.004627,-0.009234,0.000247,0.002958,0.001084,-0.001557
Xiongnu_west_Khovsgol:SKT008,0.085367,-0.09546,0.047517,0.053295,-0.04924,-0.001952,0.003995,0.000462,-0.016566,-0.03098,-0.006658,-0.002398,0.000297,-0.0278,0.016829,0.013126,0.002738,-0.004307,0.003645,0.01113,-0.013601,0.002349,-0.003328,0.010122,-0.006107
Xiongnu_west_Khovsgol:SKT009,0.080814,-0.091398,0.037712,0.059755,-0.040315,0.016455,-0.00047,-0.000923,-0.029451,-0.029704,-0.013316,-0.00045,-0.004906,-0.023121,0.021851,0.005569,-0.016559,0.005574,-0.000377,-0.003752,-0.019341,0.004081,-0.002218,0.000964,-0.001317
Xiongnu_west_Khovsgol:SKT010,0.100164,-0.048745,0.030547,0.047158,-0.041238,0.012829,-0.005405,-0.011307,-0.026179,-0.032074,-0.004384,-0.006145,0.000892,-0.024359,0.020765,-0.003713,-0.020861,0.000127,0.002514,-0.002751,-0.020963,0.004946,-0.000246,0.007109,0.006945
Late_Xiongnu_Sukhbaatar:DEL001,0.086506,-0.139128,0.059585,0.039083,-0.050163,0.00251,0.00611,0.002077,-0.013908,-0.020775,-0.009743,-0.001499,0.001933,-0.022845,0.015336,0.009812,-0.004172,-0.002027,-0.000754,0.006753,-0.020464,0.004451,-0.008997,0.006507,-0.002395
Late_Xiongnu_Arkhangai:SOL001,0.079676,-0.122879,0.046386,0.039083,-0.036314,0.010598,0.00564,-0.003461,-0.02352,-0.021504,-0.013803,0.002548,0.00773,-0.018717,0.001764,0.004508,0.003781,0.004814,-0.000377,0.004752,-0.016346,0.000124,-0.009244,0.001566,0.000359
Late_Xiongnu_Khovd:TAK008,0.093335,-0.098506,0.041106,0.05168,-0.05201,0.023148,-0.00564,-0.011538,-0.026793,-0.022415,-0.009581,-0.003597,0.001338,-0.02546,0.018187,0.009546,0.004955,-0.000633,0.004525,0.003502,-0.012977,0.006677,0.006286,0.007591,-0.006826
Late_Xiongnu_Khovd:TAK009,0.083091,-0.116786,0.033564,0.048773,-0.050471,0.008925,-0.0047,0.006,-0.023725,-0.028429,-0.009581,-0.001349,0.000892,-0.021744,0.021715,0.01538,0.001043,-0.006714,0.01081,-0.001,-0.016845,0.002102,0.002095,0.004458,0.002395
NAI002_Xiongnu_Arkhanghai,0.08268703,-0.10029755,0.06264114,0.0536955,-0.05790445,0.00664918,0.00458147,0.00074605,-0.01741381,-0.02441244,0.00581314,0.00015107,0.00361862,-0.02198594,0.01931582,-0.0002345,-0.01286402,-0.00222106,-0.00484735,0.00466029,-0.0090688,0.0090327,-0.00011866,0.00947718,-0.01797052

axlredneck

06-20-2024, 05:08 PM

The Yuezhi were an ancient people first described in Chinese histories as nomadic pastoralists living in an arid grassland area in the western part of the modern Chinese province of Gansu, during the 1st millennium BC. After a major defeat at the hands of the Xiongnu in 176 BC, the Yuezhi split into two groups migrating in different directions: the Greater Yuezhi and Lesser Yuezhi.

Yuezhi Y-DNA: R-PH155 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-PH155/) x3

Yuezhi,0.0719932,-0.1439515,0.0340352,0.0440895,-0.047855,0.0096215,0.0012338,0.001442,-0.0206568,-0.0202738,-0.0188778,-0.0046458,0.0013378,-0.016549,0.0162522,0.007226,-0.011702,0.0027872,0.0005658,-0.002939,-0.011542,0.0022565,0.0059775,-0.0006625,0.0051192

https://i.ibb.co/D5VN0mw/IMG-20240620-215348.jpg

Xiongnu_Central_Asian_Khovsgol:DA38,0.067156,-0.129988,0.029038,0.050711,-0.04924,0.010319,0.000705,-0.000462,-0.019634,-0.030616,-0.011367,-0.000899,0.000297,-0.01445,0.018729,0.006364,-0.009127,0.009755,0.006159,-0.005753,-0.015722,0.001978,0.009983,-0.001325,0.005269
Xiongnu_Central_Asian_Khovsgol:DA41,0.072847,-0.164516,0.039598,0.036499,-0.045239,0.011992,-0.001175,0.002769,-0.015339,-0.011845,-0.015752,-0.009442,0.000743,-0.014863,0.014522,0.00769,-0.011865,-0.002534,-0.003645,-0.001126,-0.016221,0.010016,0.007148,0.001687,0.006227
Xiongnu_rest_Khovsgol:SKT005,0.068294,-0.155376,0.028284,0.044897,-0.046778,0.012271,0.00611,0.000923,-0.021475,-0.019864,-0.025495,-0.003147,0.008622,-0.016515,0.015336,-0.003713,-0.029988,0.001394,0.000126,-0.003877,0,-0.003957,0.007272,-0.00253,0.005868
EIA_5_Bayan-Olgii:I13965,0.079676,-0.125926,0.039221,0.044251,-0.050163,0.003904,-0.000705,0.002538,-0.026179,-0.01877,-0.022897,-0.005095,-0.004311,-0.020368,0.016422,0.018563,0.004172,0.002534,-0.000377,-0.001,-0.014225,0.000989,-0.000493,-0.000482,0.003113

axlredneck

06-20-2024, 05:09 PM

The Xianbei were an ancient nomadic people that once resided in the eastern Eurasian steppes in what is today Mongolia, Inner Mongolia, and Northeastern China. The Xianbei were strongly suggested to be a multilingual, multi-ethnic confederation consisting of mainly Mongolic, and, to a minor degree, Tungusic and Turkic peoples.

Xianbei Y-DNA: C-F1756 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-F1756/) x3, Q-FT9308 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-FT9308/), N-F4205 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-F4205/)
Xiongnu Y-DNA: Q-L330 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-L330/) x2

Xianbei_Core,0.03538,-0.3981722,0.0822908,-0.0246288,-0.070885,-0.042554,0.0141301,0.0216528,0.010584,0.0121871,-0.0279039,-0.000306,-0.0013875,0.0000401,-0.0011592,-0.000768,-0.0009072,-0.0025338,0.0028754,0.0127405,-0.0177862,-0.0065587,-0.0205515,-0.0027212,0.0022153

https://i.ibb.co/dtDbnQ0/IMG-20240620-215358.jpg

Late_Xiongnu_Khovd:SBB002,0.048944,-0.419414,0.073161,-0.031977,-0.069859,-0.062472,0.021621,0.029306,0.020657,0.005103,-0.020299,0.008093,0.005798,-0.006331,0.002172,0.012066,-0.005476,-0.004814,-0.000377,0.012006,-0.01672,-0.005812,-0.030812,-0.00482,0.002395
Late_Xiongnu_Khovd:SBB005,0.036423,-0.399103,0.088246,-0.024871,-0.068628,-0.044901,0.013396,0.038998,0.007772,0.008383,-0.031179,-0.002248,0.002527,-0.00523,-0.009772,-0.001856,-0.007693,-0.004434,-0.004022,0.015632,-0.021836,0.001855,-0.029826,-0.006627,0.001317
Late_Xiongnu_Khovd:SBB007,0.037562,-0.407227,0.082589,-0.0323,-0.078476,-0.04016,0.018801,0.025614,0.015748,0.020228,-0.033614,0.000599,-0.002676,0.003303,-0.002714,0.002254,0.002999,-0.000127,0.007165,0.024387,-0.022336,-0.006183,-0.025266,-0.008917,-0.003473
Late_Xiongnu_Khovd:SBB008,0.047806,-0.356451,0.067127,-0.007106,-0.067089,-0.025379,0.008695,0.008538,-0.005931,0.008201,-0.033452,-0.00015,-0.001933,-0.011285,-0.000271,0.008618,-0.004433,-0.004941,-0.000754,0.01113,-0.017095,-0.002349,-0.011092,0.001687,0.010538
Late_Xiongnu_Khovd:TAK006,0.035285,-0.448864,0.096543,-0.04522,-0.088324,-0.059683,0.018566,0.017768,0.011453,0.029704,-0.037187,0.006294,-0.004757,0.01445,-0.001764,-0.000133,0.009257,-0.006714,0.009679,0.019134,-0.024457,-0.019413,-0.038453,-0.000602,-0.007424
Late_Xiongnu_Bulgan:BTO001,0.043253,-0.359497,0.063733,-0.01938,-0.05201,-0.018686,0.00611,0.012923,0.005931,0.005285,-0.038324,-0.003897,0.004162,-0.00867,0.003122,0.00053,0.003912,0.001647,-0.006411,0.005503,-0.017344,0.009521,-0.014173,-0.001446,0.002155
Late_Xiongnu_Uvs:CHN010,0.034147,-0.389963,0.06939,-0.020349,-0.054472,-0.030957,0.013866,0.011999,0.011658,0.008201,-0.036862,-0.008243,-0.001338,-0.004129,0.000407,0.000796,-0.00352,-0.003294,-0.001131,0.001,-0.010731,-0.006059,-0.015776,-0.000361,0.011616
Late_Xiongnu_Arkhangai:EME002,0.030732,-0.44074,0.091263,-0.04199,-0.076937,-0.048806,0.019271,0.021461,0.015135,0.014397,-0.027768,0.001049,-0.005352,0.007156,-0.003664,-0.004641,0.004955,-0.003674,0.007542,0.016383,-0.027452,-0.015457,-0.027114,-0.004217,-0.000239
Late_Xiongnu_Buryatia:IMA001,0.022765,-0.414336,0.107479,-0.020349,-0.09571,-0.055778,0.013631,0.022845,0.016975,0.016766,-0.011854,0.002698,-0.004608,0.007707,-0.000814,-0.00053,-0.000391,-0.004687,-0.003771,0.019384,-0.016346,-0.006677,-0.019596,0.000241,-0.002036
Late_Xiongnu_Buryatia:IMA002,0.029594,-0.417383,0.114268,-0.022287,-0.092325,-0.064424,0.014571,0.022614,0.013703,0.014943,-0.002761,-3e-04,-0.009514,0.010459,0.000543,-0.001989,-0.002347,-0.003801,-0.003017,0.009379,-0.021712,-0.008656,-0.022678,0.000602,0.004191
Late_Xiongnu_Buryatia:IMA003,0.056912,-0.348327,0.090132,-0.015181,-0.083708,-0.038208,0.018566,0.024922,0.011249,0.001458,0.001 137,-0.005695,-0.009366,-0.000826,0.001221,0.006762,-0.001434,-0.00114,-0.00176,0.003502,-0.019216,-0.005441,-0.020706,0.001807,0.002275
Late_Xiongnu_Buryatia:IMA004,0.025041,-0.409258,0.059962,-0.028101,-0.048317,-0.039324,0.007285,0.024691,0.005727,0.020046,-0.039948,-0.001199,0.003865,0.000138,-0.005836,0.001193,0.000913,-0.014189,0.016718,0.001626,-0.003868,-0.001731,-0.008627,0.002169,0.004431
Late_Xiongnu_Buryatia:IMA005,0.0387,-0.397072,0.097674,-0.024548,-0.082785,-0.043228,0.014336,0.026076,0.01718,0.015126,-0.015265,-0.002098,-0.008176,0.003716,-0.005972,-0.000928,0.00326,0.001774,0.005656,0.012506,-0.022585,-0.009274,-0.023171,-0.000723,0.007185
Late_Xiongnu_Buryatia:IMA006,0.036423,-0.398088,0.081081,-0.02261,-0.079092,-0.040439,0.014806,0.023999,0.010635,0.01713,-0.024521,0.002548,0.004014,-0.004404,-0.006379,-0.004641,-0.002217,0.001267,0.00905,0.016008,-0.015597,-0.004204,-0.017501,-0.003133,0.005029
Late_Xiongnu_Buryatia:IMA007,0.040976,-0.407227,0.079195,-0.027132,-0.068936,-0.042949,0.014336,0.011999,0.006545,0.01385,-0.03329,0.004796,0.001338,-0.006055,-0.00285,0.00053,-0.006389,0.00152,-0.000377,0.015382,-0.023583,-0.004946,-0.020706,-0.000361,0.001796
Late_Xiongnu_Buryatia:IMA008,0.035285,-0.390979,0.074293,-0.018411,-0.063089,-0.03765,0.011045,0.026537,0.003886,0.008383,-0.036375,-0.004946,-0.002527,-0.000138,0.005022,-0.002917,-0.003912,0.004307,0.003394,0.006753,-0.01148,-0.007172,-0.007025,0.002771,-0.000718
Late_Xiongnu_Khentii:JAA001,0.027318,-0.420429,0.098051,-0.034884,-0.084016,-0.059404,0.017391,0.023768,0.016566,0.010387,-0.026145,-0.001349,0,0.005505,0.005022,-0.002519,-0.00339,-0.006588,0.003268,0.015883,-0.01984,-0.020526,-0.022061,-0.000361,-0.002994
Late_Xiongnu_Dornod:SAN001,0.025041,-0.4316,0.089378,-0.03876,-0.071398,-0.053547,0.014571,0.028614,0.015339,0.019864,-0.027931,0.002098,-0.008771,0.003578,0.001764,-0.004773,0.007693,-0.005574,0.012696,0.024262,-0.035313,-0.015951,-0.028717,-0.004458,0.000359
Late_Xiongnu_Uvurkhangai:TEV002,0.035285,-0.418398,0.088246,-0.028424,-0.074168,-0.042949,0.013161,0.017768,0.007772,0.013485,-0.025008,0.002698,-0.001487,-0.003578,-0.001629,-0.007027,-0.000522,-0.005068,0.005405,0.013506,-0.013476,-0.009645,-0.01972,-0.00964,-0.000239
Late_Xiongnu_Uvurkhangai:TEV003,0.026179,-0.420429,0.067882,-0.029393,-0.042162,-0.029562,0.009165,0.02123,0.007976,0.012028,-0.043033,-0.00015,0.001338,-0.002477,-0.007329,0.000398,0.002738,0.0019,-0.001885,0.008004,-0.010232,-0.002102,-0.019473,-0.008676,0.004311
Late_Xiongnu_Arkhangai:TUK003,0.059188,-0.246774,0.037712,0.011951,-0.041546,-0.006693,0.008695,0.011538,-0.012067,-0.015672,-0.041734,-0.005395,0.003568,-0.009496,0.00665,-0.002254,-0.005476,-0.006334,-0.004274,-0.002251,-0.013102,0.010016,-0.001356,0.002651,0.006586
Late_Xiongnu_Sukhbaatar:ULN004,0.034147,-0.384886,0.082589,-0.008398,-0.076322,-0.041555,0.016451,0.017538,0.012885,0.007836,-0.023871,0.004196,0.000149,0.005367,0.003122,-0.00305,-0.011343,-0.000507,0.003268,0.015507,-0.013351,-0.00779,-0.016885,-0.005422,0.004191
Late_Xiongnu_Bulgan:UVG001,0.021626,-0.379808,0.067127,-0.018088,-0.049855,-0.037092,0.011751,0.016153,0.020452,0.025695,-0.036213,-0.006444,0.003122,-0.005918,-0.00855,-0.008353,-0.000652,0.002914,0.00905,0.022011,-0.012228,-0.00272,-0.01898,-0.015665,-0.002036
Xiongnu_rest_Khentii:JAG001,0.020488,-0.44988,0.107857,-0.043282,-0.092017,-0.057451,0.019036,0.032768,0.016771,0.011663,-0.024196,-3e-04,-0.002676,0.00812,0.000679,-0.005967,0.001695,-0.000253,0.003897,0.019134,-0.01697,-0.016693,-0.033523,-0.001807,0.003952

axlredneck

06-20-2024, 05:09 PM

Yuezhi Y-DNA: R-PH155 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-PH155/) x2, J-Y29712 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y29712/)

https://i.ibb.co/DVG3b4b/IMG-20240620-220228.jpg

Xiongnu_rest_Khovsgol:SKT002,0.048944,-0.299581,0.068259,0.004522,-0.066782,-0.023985,0.012926,0.014999,-0.0045,-0.005649,-0.024196,-0.004796,-0.000149,0.001789,0.010722,0.004243,-0.007171,0.004181,0.004399,0.00988,-0.021337,-0.00272,-0.008011,0.001807,0.002994
Xiongnu_rest_Khovsgol:SKT004,0.03187,-0.412305,0.089,-0.025194,-0.085554,-0.053826,0.017156,0.021922,0.011453,0.011845,-0.020136,0.000749,-0.003865,0.003441,0.00475,0.000398,0.001956,0.0026 6,0.009553,0.019384,-0.024706,-0.015086,-0.017871,-0.007712,0.005269
Xiongnu_rest_Khovsgol:SKT006,0.059188,-0.294504,0.059962,-0.002261,-0.071706,-0.029005,0.015511,0.024922,-0.005318,0.000911,-0.03264,-0.005245,-0.00446,0.003028,0.012079,0.01074,0.002217,0.00481 4,0.001508,0.012006,-0.024956,-0.00915,-0.000123,-0.004217,0.010897
Xiongnu_rest_Khovsgol:SKT012,0.061464,-0.269115,0.067127,0.011305,-0.06155,-0.019801,0.00987,0.009,-0.003681,-0.005649,-0.023709,-0.004646,0.003568,-0.00867,0.011401,0.000928,0.001825,0.000507,-0.005279,-0.001626,-0.01984,-0.001607,-0.017994,0.006266,0.003832
Xianbei_IA_Khovd:I13175,0.0387,-0.387932,0.073916,-0.02907,-0.06155,-0.037929,0.011281,0.012923,-0.000205,0.017312,-0.048392,0.001649,-0.000149,0.00234,0.005836,0.007955,0.001173,0.0024 07,0.010433,0.022011,-0.02009,-0.018053,-0.023787,-0.008917,-0.001078

axlredneck

06-20-2024, 05:10 PM

https://i.ibb.co/0sRjsT0/IMG-20240620-215010.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/Bjq3DNt/IMG-20240620-215327.jpg

Mixed_A,0.0480332,-0.3326874,0.0716528,-0.0081396,-0.0694284,-0.0329092,0.0133488,0.0167532,-0.0004502,0.003754,-0.0298146,-0.0024578,-0.001011,0.0003856,0.0089576,0.0048528,-0.0,0.0029138,0.0041228,0.012331,-0.0221858,-0.0093232,-0.0135572,-0.0025546,0.0043828
Xianbei,0.035910025,-0.41190304,0.084078261,-0.028211794,-0.076809473,-0.047013289,0.018733174,0.022199411,0.009407169,0. 012383527,-0.032464911,-0.00144742,0.000253315,0.008336841,0.006097795,-0.000399932,-0.001598401,0.003059311,0.00584679,0.017438451,-0.025235788,-0.013274071,-0.018562433,-0.003348667,0.004869293
Yuezhi,0.079676,-0.125926,0.039221,0.044251,-0.050163,0.003904,-0.000705,0.002538,-0.026179,-0.01877,-0.022897,-0.005095,-0.004311,-0.020368,0.016422,0.018563,0.004172,0.002534,-0.000377,-0.001,-0.014225,0.000989,-0.000493,-0.000482,0.003113

axlredneck

06-20-2024, 05:10 PM

Xianbei Y-DNA: C-F1756 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-F1756/) x2

https://i.ibb.co/cF73g92/IMG-20240620-220239.jpg

Late_Xiongnu_Khovd:SBB001,0.07057,-0.213261,0.072784,0.005168,-0.053548,-0.01506,0.01034,0.019384,-0.002454,-0.011116,-0.020623,-0.001499,-0.001784,-0.014588,0.007872,0.008884,0.001434,-0.003421,-0.001006,0.008504,-0.012977,-0.00507,-0.014173,0.003615,-0.001557
Late_Xiongnu_Khovd:SBB003,0.062603,-0.254898,0.058454,-0.003553,-0.050471,-0.008646,0.00705,0.002769,-0.004909,0.007654,-0.019974,0.009591,0.007879,-0.014313,0.008686,-0.009149,-0.009648,-0.003421,0.000126,0.00075,-0.010482,0.006554,-0.007641,-0.003374,0.008502
Late_Xiongnu_Khovd:SBB010,0.064879,-0.204121,0.058831,0.007106,-0.054472,-0.015618,0.00987,0.014538,-0.002863,-0.000547,-0.029392,-0.005395,-0.000743,-0.018717,0.000136,0.005171,-0.00339,0.00152,0.005531,0.012756,-0.012852,-0.007296,-0.008874,-0.004097,-0.001197

axlredneck

06-20-2024, 05:11 PM

https://i.ibb.co/nny80mW/IMG-20240620-214954.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/9N15rg0/IMG-20240620-215308.jpg

Mixed_B,0.0660173,-0.2240933,0.0633563,0.002907,-0.0528303,-0.013108,0.0090867,0.0122303,-0.0034087,-0.0013363,-0.0233297,0.000899,0.001784,-0.0158727,0.0055647,0.0016353,-0.003868,-0.001774,0.0015503,0.0073367,-0.0121037,-0.0019373,-0.0102293,-0.0012853,0.001916
Xiongnu,0.08719252,-0.08599804,0.04637687,0.03351454,-0.03814169,0.00717333,0.00762514,0.00357693,-0.0126204,-0.0140774,-0.01342433,0.00107135,-0.00149408,-0.02489602,0.01222509,0.00844355,-0.00758258,-0.00149974,-0.00002491,0.00285095,-0.01675087,0.00611484,-0.00114623,0.00096408,-0.00184455
Xianbei,0.037947822,-0.407149807,0.085863917,-0.037665786,-0.072301248,-0.039992554,0.011024117,0.023701046,0.008802158,0. 015553065,-0.036460074,0.000670536,0.006129362,-0.003911555,-0.003264189,-0.00738959,0.001055978,-0.002137554,0.003638369,0.013282927,-0.005943498,-0.012611067,-0.022269649,-0.004267036,0.006900915

axlredneck

06-20-2024, 05:11 PM

Xianbei Y-DNA: C-F1756 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-F1756/)
Han Y-DNA: N-Y3037 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-Y3037/), O-Y16154 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/O-Y16154/)
Yuezhi Y-DNA: J-PH1795 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-PH1795/), R-Y174827 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y174827/)
Others: J-Y2919 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y2919/)

https://i.ibb.co/xGLKd1C/IMG-20240620-220218.jpg

Late_Xiongnu_Han_Tuv:ATS001,0.03187,-0.434647,0.061848,-0.040375,-0.034468,-0.024542,0.01081,0.012461,0.001432,0.00492,-0.048554,-0.004946,0.001487,-0.001651,0.002036,-0.003182,-0.001956,-0.002407,-0.001885,0.006503,-0.014724,0.007666,-0.007765,-0.003133,0.001437
Late_Xiongnu_Han_Bulgan:BAM001,0.033009,-0.435662,0.055437,-0.039729,-0.022773,-0.015339,0.007755,0.014538,0.005931,0.017859,-0.050828,-0.000899,0.006838,0.001376,0.004343,0.011005,0.000 13,0.00152,-0.007668,0.004377,-0.009234,-0.003339,-0.011832,-0.005302,0.007185
Late_Xiongnu_Han_Sukhbaatar:BRU001,0.043253,-0.330047,0.04714,-0.027132,-0.035391,-0.010598,0.010105,0.008538,0.003068,0.005103,-0.044657,0.001948,0.001189,-0.004266,-0.007057,0.00305,0.005476,0.003674,0.009679,0.0065 03,-0.006239,0.006059,-0.007148,-0.002289,-0.002874
Late_Xiongnu_Han_Khovd:KHO006,0.033009,-0.424491,0.061848,-0.041667,-0.047086,-0.037092,0.021621,0.019384,0.005931,0.009476,-0.040435,0.002698,-0.002527,-0.001927,-0.003257,0.005038,-0.002608,0.003167,0.002137,0.013006,-0.02271,0.002597,-0.002958,-0.006145,0.000479
Late_Xiongnu_Han_Tuv:SON001,0.017073,-0.442771,0.053174,-0.052972,-0.022158,-0.029005,0.006815,0.014307,-0.007363,0.013485,-0.052127,-0.007194,0.002676,-0.007294,-0.000814,-0.005834,0.002086,-0.002914,0.012193,0.014757,-0.007612,0.003957,-0.018364,0.000843,0.00455
Late_Xiongnu_Han_Arkhangai:TUH001,0.025041,-0.423476,0.039975,-0.047481,0.004001,-0.006136,0.018566,0.006231,-0.011249,0.004191,-0.05781,-0.005095,0.01219,-0.002064,-0.0095,-0.010342,-0.005737,0.003927,0.000503,-0.002751,0.008984,-0.004204,-0.002218,-0.009881,0.005269
Late_Xiongnu_Han_Arkhangai:TUH002,0.044391,-0.311768,0.035072,-0.012274,-0.011387,0.004183,0.00517,0.001154,-0.011862,-0.007654,-0.046118,-0.004346,0.003271,-0.016928,-0.004072,0.009679,0.008605,0.000253,-0.002514,-0.003377,-0.002496,0.01014,0.004807,-0.00253,0.006227
Late_Xiongnu_Han_Arkhangai:TUK002,0.042115,-0.332078,0.028284,-0.04199,-0.015387,-0.012271,0.00752,0.010384,-0.007363,0.006743,-0.044494,-0.002098,-0.003419,-0.003853,-0.008007,-0.006762,-0.002868,0.004561,-0.002891,0.00988,-0.001497,-0.005935,-0.010476,-0.001325,0.005149
Late_Xiongnu_Khovd:TAK002,0.034147,-0.428553,0.051666,-0.038114,-0.024928,-0.018686,0.00658,0.012692,-0.001636,0.014397,-0.05034,-0.009591,0.008028,-0.002752,-0.005293,-0.003978,-0.006128,0.000507,-0.001006,-0.000375,-0.00574,0.008037,-0.006902,-0.002771,0.008622
Xiongnu_East_Asian_Arkhanghai:DA39,0.028456,-0.411289,0.04714,-0.040698,-0.012925,-0.013666,0.015276,0.009692,-0.000205,0.004556,-0.04693,-0.002248,-0.003568,-0.007569,0.006243,0.006629,0.005215,-0.000253,-0.004399,-0.001251,-0.012228,0.001978,-0.003821,-0.002289,0.002634

axlredneck

06-20-2024, 05:12 PM

https://i.ibb.co/QFcnR9X/IMG-20240620-214940.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/023vYRx/IMG-20240620-215254.jpg

Mixed_C,0.0332364,-0.3974782,0.0481584,-0.0382432,-0.0222502,-0.0163152,0.0110218,0.0109381,-0.0023316,0.0073076,-0.0482293,-0.0031771,0.0026165,-0.0046928,-0.0025378,0.0005303,0.0002215,0.0012035,0.0004149, 0.0047272,-0.0073496,0.0026956,-0.0066677,-0.0034822,0.0038678
Xianbei,0.034045637,-0.397185888,0.076533789,-0.032152314,-0.070083129,-0.044223679,0.015405996,0.018731851,0.005555482,0. 012173935,-0.032370923,0.000814584,-0.002832438,-0.000897128,-0.00171695,0.000451648,0.001031977,0.002217547,0.0 04584907,0.014207805,-0.018621665,-0.003024544,-0.022071204,-0.008153662,0.005506152
Han,0.0257524,-0.4395974,0.0116908,-0.0601184,0.0473551,0.0175701,0.0066389,0.001846,-0.0100984,0.0051936,-0.0747391,-0.0083924,0.0102761,-0.0079308,-0.006752,-0.000464,0.0010756,-0.0004434,-0.0053107,-0.0069721,0.0087502,0.0105878,0.0123094,0.0024401, 0.0014221
Yuezhi,0.0719932,-0.1439515,0.0340352,0.0440895,-0.047855,0.0096215,0.0012338,0.001442,-0.0206568,-0.0202738,-0.0188778,-0.0046458,0.0013378,-0.016549,0.0162522,0.007226,-0.011702,0.0027872,0.0005658,-0.002939,-0.011542,0.0022565,0.0059775,-0.0006625,0.0051192

axlredneck

06-20-2024, 05:21 PM

The Huns were a nomadic people who lived in Central Asia, the Caucasus, and Eastern Europe between the 4th and 6th centuries AD. According to European tradition, they were first reported living east of the Volga River, in an area that was part of Scythia at the time. By 370 AD, the Huns had arrived on the Volga, causing the westwards movement of Goths and Alan's. By 430, they had established a vast, but short-lived, empire on the Danubian frontier of the Roman empire in Europe.

Xiongnu Y-DNA: R-FGC4547 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FGC4547/) x2, R-YP5505 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP5505/) x3, Q-YP832 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-YP832/), Q-YP4500 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-YP4500/), R-Y195965 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y195965/), R-Y84684 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y84684/)

https://i.ibb.co/McMzCdN/IMG-20240621-073627.jpg

KAZ_Hun-Sarmatian:DA27,0.037562,-0.369653,0.061471,-0.019703,-0.038161,-0.031236,0.015746,0.021691,0.003272,0.005103,-0.039623,-3e-04,0.000743,-0.003716,-0.000679,0.004375,-0.007953,-0.004434,-0.002263,0.001751,-0.013476,0.004451,-0.010106,-0.003494,0.009939
Hun_Tian_Shan_o:DA127,0.052359,-0.313799,0.06675,-0.006137,-0.038161,-0.020917,0.011281,0.004615,0.006136,-0.004009,-0.033127,0.002548,0.005054,-0.006055,0.002579,0.003713,0.000261,0.005068,-0.001131,0.001626,-0.019715,-0.000618,-0.00912,0.004458,-0.004311
KAZ_Kurayly_Hun_elite_Antiquity,0.056912,-0.302628,0.069013,-0.009367,-0.057241,-0.020917,0.001645,0.001385,0.011249,-0.006014,-0.030854,-0.007643,-0.001338,-0.000963,0.008822,-0.005304,-0.008736,-0.002914,0.000503,0.013256,-0.026453,0.00136,-0.009613,0.00482,0.005628
KAZ_Xianbei_Hun_Antiquity:BRE014,0.043253,-0.358482,0.066373,-0.023256,-0.048009,-0.025937,0.019741,0.017538,0.001432,0.00656,-0.030691,-0.002398,-0.002527,-0.018441,-0.001629,0.002519,0.000913,-0.001014,0.004902,0.017258,-0.013227,-0.003215,-0.018117,-0.002892,-0.001796
HUN_Hun_period:VZ12673,0.048944,-0.323954,0.058077,-0.002261,-0.045855,-0.019801,0.00752,0.009692,0.003272,-0.004374,-0.026632,-0.004646,0.000297,-0.00867,0.006243,0.001326,0.004042,0.00076,0.00377 1,0.015007,-0.01123,-0.003215,-0.010599,0.001325,0.000239
HUN_Hun_period:MSG1,0.034147,-0.356451,0.062602,-0.024871,-0.044008,-0.019801,0.00376,0.00923,0.003272,0.002734,-0.035238,-0.002698,0.00446,-0.006331,0.0019,0.001989,-0.005085,-0.007855,0.002514,0.003627,-0.01672,-0.008285,-0.011339,0.00253,0.001796
HUN_Hun_Elite_IA,0.047806,-0.294504,0.048649,-0.006783,-0.056626,-0.020917,0.00564,0.018692,0.008795,-0.000182,-0.030367,0.004346,0.011744,-0.006055,0.005836,0.020286,0.007432,-0.003041,0.004399,0.016383,-0.018717,0.016199,0.002095,0.011327,-0.002275
Hun_KMT2795,0.052359,-0.313799,0.06675,-0.006137,-0.038161,-0.020917,0.011281,0.004615,0.006136,-0.004009,-0.033127,0.002548,0.005054,-0.006055,0.002579,0.003713,0.000261,0.005068,-0.001131,0.001626,-0.019715,-0.000618,-0.00912,0.004458,-0.004311

axlredneck

06-20-2024, 05:35 PM

https://i.ibb.co/PDGqY0G/IMG-20240621-073256.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/vXTzbTM/IMG-20240621-073310.jpg

Hunnic_11,0.0482871,-0.3185133,0.0632705,-0.0094171,-0.0459406,-0.0221165,0.010258,0.011462,0.0033083,-0.0001643,-0.0311361,-0.0019346,0.0023199,-0.006986,0.0040751,0.0034799,-0.0024773,-0.0007279,0.002145,0.0085642,-0.0165966,0.000794,-0.0088249,0.0022682,0.0010653
Xianbei,0.03326253,-0.40001033,0.07716621,-0.02820424,-0.07056595,-0.04553508,0.01682943,0.01919936,0.01486924,0.0111 7081,-0.03165895,-0.00026249,0.00063442,0.00200559,0.00070617,0.0030 4445,-0.00190367,-0.0006617,0.00584834,0.01409405,-0.02103357,-0.00368513,-0.01850796,0.00246019,0.00267157
Han,0.0257524,-0.4395974,0.0116908,-0.0601184,0.0473551,0.0175701,0.0066389,0.001846,-0.0100984,0.0051936,-0.0747391,-0.0083924,0.0102761,-0.0079308,-0.006752,-0.000464,0.0010756,-0.0004434,-0.0053107,-0.0069721,0.0087502,0.0105878,0.0123094,0.0024401, 0.0014221
Xiongnu,0.0857739,-0.1156978,0.0614975,0.0476886,-0.0436564,0.0023308,-1.68e-05,0.0017966,-0.0115701,-0.0231569,-0.0103812,-0.0020339,0.0017628,-0.0228651,0.0151036,0.0060612,-0.0051316,-0.0009772,-0.0011851,0.0055919,-0.0200629,0.0044691,-0.0008627,0.0018419,-0.0020101

axlredneck

06-20-2024, 05:43 PM

axlredneck

06-20-2024, 07:20 PM

https://indigpeople.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/xiognu.jpg.jpg?w=1024

I hope this thread helps explain how the Xiongnu and Huns are related.

axlredneck

06-21-2024, 02:20 AM

https://i0.wp.com/ringmar.net/irhistorynew/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/xiongnu.png?w=1200

What could've caused the westward migration of the inhabitants of the Xiongnu empire ie. the Huns?

Leto

06-21-2024, 10:52 AM

For these kinds of populations you should give estimates of Steppe ancestry as well as East vs. West Eurasian.

axlredneck

06-21-2024, 04:36 PM

Map of the Xiongnu empire
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Map_of_the_Xiongnu%2C_circa_150_BCE.png

axlredneck

06-22-2024, 12:54 PM

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Hunnenwanderung.png
A suggested path of the Huns' movement westwards (labels in German)

axlredneck

06-22-2024, 03:12 PM

...
What could've caused the westward migration of the Huns?

axlredneck

06-23-2024, 07:14 AM

one to sub-Hg G1

This Xiongnu could end up in the Kazakh clade of G1... https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-L1323/

axlredneck

06-23-2024, 02:50 PM

Y-DNA: R-FT307664 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FT307664/) (Parthian)
mtDNA: C4a2c1 (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/C4a2c1/) (Xiongnu)
Age: c. 70 CE

The Parthian Empire, also known as the Arsacid Empire, was a major Iranian political and cultural power centered in ancient Iran from 247 BC to 224 AD. Its latter name comes from its founder, Arsaces I, who led the Parni tribe in conquering the region of Parthia in Iran's northeast, then a satrapy under Andragoras, who was rebelling against the Seleucid Empire. The empire, located on the Silk Road trade route between the Roman Empire in the Mediterranean Basin and the Han dynasty of China, became a center of trade and commerce.

https://i.ibb.co/vw5Qxtr/IMG-20240623-194647.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/KVrsgJb/IMG-20240623-194658.jpg

axlredneck

06-25-2024, 09:31 AM

https://youtu.be/lJWEbPda23U

axlredneck

06-27-2024, 02:07 PM

Y-DNA: Q-F20829 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-F20829/) (Xiongnu)
mtDNA: Z4a (https://yfull.com/mtree/Z4a/)
Age: c. 70 CE
Region: Burkhan Tolgoi, Bulgan
https://i.ibb.co/FJZ8CD3/IMG-20240627-133636.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/ZBsFzG7/IMG-20240627-193027.jpg

axlredneck

06-27-2024, 02:38 PM

https://i.ibb.co/FJZ8CD3/IMG-20240627-133636.jpg

The Chinese flag is a Yugur, a Turko-Mongol ethnicity from China.

Sora

06-27-2024, 03:48 PM

https://i.imgur.com/XfQzTkI.png

Sora

06-27-2024, 04:32 PM

The DA39 is supposed chanyu and he has R1a-Z93. He is literally ½ Han Chinese + ⅓ proto-Turkic + ⅛ Saka/Scytho-Siberian.

According to my researches, Touman's father "Tuwu Chanyu" migrated from Ordos region to Orkhon valley. And according to what my ustaz told me, Ordos culture was probably Pazyryk-like with some Han admix. I look forward to Ordos culture results seriously :rolleyes:

If we think Tuwu was Ordos citizen & married a Turkic woman after migrating to Orkhon, then supposed chanyu's ydna makes sense :thumb001:

axlredneck

06-27-2024, 05:03 PM

The DA39 is supposed chanyu and he has R1a-Z93. He is literally ½ Han Chinese + ⅓ proto-Turkic + ⅛ Saka/Scytho-Siberian.

https://i.ibb.co/FzjPMCr/IMG-20240627-223007.jpg

Xiongnu_East_Asian:DA39,0.028456,-0.411289,0.04714,-0.040698,-0.012925,-0.013666,0.015276,0.009692,-0.000205,0.004556,-0.04693,-0.002248,-0.003568,-0.007569,0.006243,0.006629,0.005215,-0.000253,-0.004399,-0.001251,-0.012228,0.001978,-0.003821,-0.002289,0.002634
Xianbei,0.0269074,-0.41016483,0.08701579,-0.02554891,-0.07330952,-0.05055942,0.02357811,0.01876782,0.0139033,0.00950 464,-0.03380689,0.00171362,-0.01565496,-0.00406934,0.01623826,0.01239731,0.01110551,-0.00244774,-0.00538958,0.00654409,-0.03210836,-0.00163941,-0.01793028,-0.00329964,0.00670352
Han,0.0224394,-0.454667,-0.0003771,-0.070091,0.0635283,0.0276101,0.0073186,9.9e-05,-0.0141997,0.0028116,-0.067948,-0.0075363,0.0111706,-0.0081396,-0.0075033,-0.000966,-0.0003351,0.0026064,-0.0038789,-0.0114161,0.0132981,0.005229,0.012712,-0.0009811,-0.0014713
Xiongnu,0.08287249,-0.11965248,0.04996981,0.03903185,-0.04840208,0.00235234,0.00244075,0.00186087,-0.01874195,-0.02389264,-0.00868483,0.00196926,-0.00675222,-0.03228622,0.01968361,0.01204117,-0.0045565,-0.00210157,0.00011028,0.00537945,-0.02637316,0.00907021,-0.00288031,-0.00307918,-0.00223749

axlredneck

06-27-2024, 05:15 PM

axlredneck

06-27-2024, 05:19 PM

Ordos culture was probably Pazyryk-like with some Han admix. I look forward to Ordos culture results seriously

I think Ordos was similar to the Dzungaria_East_IA profile from this thread: Xinjiang IA folks on G25 (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?384504-Xinjiang-IA-folks-on-G25) Basically, Saka + Tocharian + Tibetan/Han.

Sora

06-27-2024, 05:30 PM

You're probably equating Xianbei with proto-Turkic. I'm afraid my idea of proto-Turkic is different from yours, Miss Sora! I firmly believe that proto-Turks were Slab-Grave-like people, and this profile persisted until they mixed with Altai HGs in North and West Mongolia (in the Bronze Age). Next, they mixed with the Andronovo nomads moving east, and this gave us Sakas (Scytho-Siberians/IA profile).

I always thought Slab Grave was proto-Turkic culture, because EA in Medieval Turkics correlates with Slab Grave instead of Khövsgöl/DSKC. Well, what's your thoughts about proto-Turkics? Which culture is closest proto-Turkic candidate for you?

Also I've read at Savelyev&Jeong study that upper-class Xiongnu samples were pretty close to 100% ANA(ancient northeast Asian)/Slab Grave. Whenas middle or lower class Xiongnu samples were almost Saka-like(Sintashta+Khövsgöl)

Sora

06-27-2024, 05:31 PM

https://i.imgur.com/XfQzTkI.png

axlredneck

06-27-2024, 05:33 PM

I always thought Slab Grave was proto-Turkic culture, because EA in Medieval Turkics correlates with Slab Grave instead of Khövsgöl/DSKC. Well, what's your thoughts about proto-Turkics? Which culture is closest proto-Turkic candidate for you?

Also I've read at Savelyev&Jeong study that upper-class Xiongnu samples were pretty close to 100% ANA(ancient northeast Asian)/Slab Grave. Whenas middle or lower class Xiongnu samples were almost Saka-like(Sintashta+Khövsgöl)

You'll have to wait a little for my answer!

axlredneck

06-28-2024, 09:17 AM

I always thought Slab Grave was proto-Turkic culture, because EA in Medieval Turkics correlates with Slab Grave instead of Khövsgöl/DSKC.

East Eurasian in Steppe Cline Turkics, i.e., Volga Tatars, Bashkirs, South Siberian Turkics, and Turkic ancestors of Karachay, Balkar, and Kumyks, is of the DSKC type. Southern Steppe Cline Turkics derive their EE from mostly Slab-Grave. Medieval Turks of the Southern Steppe Cline had higher ANE as compared to modern ones, especially Kipchaks.
https://i.ibb.co/jyFqnMm/20200308-123722.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/9tpZBnL/Screenshot-20200309-105442-Drive.jpg

axlredneck

06-29-2024, 12:03 PM

https://i.imgur.com/XfQzTkI.png

The model for NAI002 is incorrect. He is essentially Persian + Xiongnu.

https://i.ibb.co/vw5Qxtr/IMG-20240623-194647.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/KVrsgJb/IMG-20240623-194658.jpg

axlredneck

06-29-2024, 02:48 PM

Y-DNA: J-Z18293 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z18293/) (Persian)
mtDNA: D5a2a (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/D5a2a/) (Xianbei)
Period: Xiongnu
Region: Uushigiin Uver, Khovsgol

https://i.ibb.co/sgW3z4B/IMG-20240629-191453.jpg

MNG_UUS001,0.05805,-0.215292,0.021119,-0.031977,-0.049548,-0.02008,0.00846,0.007846,-0.003886,0.003462,-0.031666,0.003147,-0.000892,0.006744,0.009093,-0.007955,-0.005867,0.003801,0.010307,0.008754,-0.015722,-0.007296,-0.019843,0.000361,-0.006347
Xianbei,0.03635886,-0.40644213,0.07299886,-0.03752579,-0.05477475,-0.03194162,0.01214991,0.01506656,0.00712936,0.0111 7485,-0.04915231,0.00452325,0.00078,0.00927979,0.0085644 6,-0.00861313,-0.00269997,0.00427247,0.01307559,0.01700492,-0.02535506,-0.01508912,-0.03085553,0.00065992,-0.00957604
Persian,0.0942019,0.10329155,-0.06534743,-0.02272902,-0.04083675,-0.00031063,0.00231015,-0.00418827,-0.02224493,-0.00939275,-0.00252215,0.00085325,-0.00367867,0.00251768,0.0099739,-0.00685812,-0.01114538,0.00301522,0.00569268,-0.00499753,0.0003331,0.00569253,-0.00148878,-0.0001372,-0.00096527

axlredneck

06-29-2024, 04:06 PM

We now have 2 Persians from Xiongnu-era Mongolia.

Sora

06-29-2024, 08:20 PM

The model for NAI002 is incorrect. He is essentially Persian + Xiongnu.

Well, how much Mongoloid is "Xiongnu"?

axlredneck

06-30-2024, 06:25 AM

Well, how much Mongoloid is "Xiongnu"?

This dude is ~ 37.6% East Eurasian.

Leto

06-30-2024, 09:31 AM

Sora

06-30-2024, 09:39 AM

This individual was essentially biracial but not 50/50, more like 60% EE 40% WE.

https://i.ibb.co/xmF58h1/main-qimg-482efe2559b62b2683831cfeb1bca65c.png
Well, Leto. What do you think of this map? Is it also accurate to you? Especially the 4 different "Russian" charts. Just wondered your opinion

Leto

06-30-2024, 10:12 AM

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/xmF58h1/main-qimg-482efe2559b62b2683831cfeb1bca65c.png
Well, Leto. What do you think of this map? Is it also accurate to you? Especially the 4 different "Russian" charts. Just wondered your opinion
I don't know, some of it looks bogus. What kind of Russian is that? Almost a quarter Mongoloid? The ethnic Russian average is 5 percent approximately and even Northern Russians are nowhere near as much as the Sami. The one between Khakass and Buryat might be some kind of mixed person or a few mixed individuals, very unrepresentative.

Sora

06-30-2024, 10:56 AM

I don't know, some of it looks bogus. What kind of Russian is that? Almost a quarter Mongoloid? The ethnic Russian average is 5 percent approximately and even Northern Russians are nowhere near as much as the Sami. The one between Khakass and Buryat might be some kind of mixed person or a few mixed individuals, very unrepresentative.

I also thought so. Especially the further eastern Russian cluster obviously have mixed individuals, if not all, definitely added some.

The map also has errors about "Korean" chart. Koreans aren't that much Yellow River since they are descended from Liao civilization alongside with Japanese(they also have 15% Jomon additionally which Koreans don't have). Adding less than 10% Amur while adding 20% to Tibetans is absurd for me. Nearly all Koreans have between 16%-25% ANA/Amur on G25.

"Liao civilization" used to be thought as proto-Transeurasian/Altaic but it debunked speedily. Now it's a strong candidate for proto-Koreanic-Japonic judging by genetic results. And genetically Liao civilization cultures were unbalanced mixtures of Amur/ANA & Yellow River

Leto

06-30-2024, 11:08 AM

I also thought so. Especially the further eastern Russian cluster obviously have mixed individuals, if not all, definitely added some.

The map also has errors about "Korean" chart. Koreans aren't that much Yellow River since they are descended from Liao civilization alongside with Japanese(they also have 15% Jomon additionally which Koreans don't have). Adding less than 10% Amur while adding 20% to Tibetans is absurd for me. Nearly all Koreans have between 16%-25% ANA/Amur on G25.

"Liao civilization" used to be thought as proto-Transeurasian/Altaic but it debunked speedily. Now it's a strong candidate for proto-Koreanic-Japonic judging by genetic results. And genetically Liao civilization cultures were unbalanced mixtures of Amur/ANA & Yellow River
I see. To be honest, I don't know much about the genetic history of East Asia. Are Vietnamese people predominantly Yellow River too? I'm a supporter of Vietnam personally, I think it's gonna be a fairly developed country in the next 20-25 years.

Sora

06-30-2024, 12:32 PM

I see. To be honest, I don't know much about the genetic history of East Asia. Are Vietnamese people predominantly Yellow River too? I'm a supporter of Vietnam personally, I think it's gonna be a fairly developed country in the next 20-25 years.

Yes, they're mainly mix of Yangtze River(thought to be proto-Austroasiatic) & Yellow River civilizations with a little AASI. They genetically match with Southernmost Han Chinese but differ from them with that little AASI. Vietnamese are 95%-99% Mongoloid while Han Chinese are 100%

Ajeje Brazorf

06-30-2024, 03:06 PM

Does this average represent Xiongnu correctly?

Xiongnu,0.055929578,-0.26533194,0.055004127,-0.0000285,-0.047649843,-0.01477848,0.0084073725,0.010705392,-0.0044213431,-0.003081951,-0.025690814,-0.0015119216,0.0016571765,-0.0084908235,0.0053330196,0.0031496569,-0.0034935098,-0.00023476471,0.0020395098,0.0072608235,-0.014321578,-0.00086196078,-0.0093668431,-0.00066390196,0.0011023824

axlredneck

06-30-2024, 03:57 PM

axlredneck

07-04-2024, 11:40 AM

Y-DNA: N-F1154 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-F1154/) (Xianbei)
mtDNA: R11 (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/R11/) (Xiongnu)
Period: Xiongnu
Region: Tarvagatain Am, Khovd

https://i.ibb.co/XDjt5yQ/IMG-20240704-170115.jpg

MNG_KHI001,0.072847,-0.194982,0.064865,0.03553,-0.062473,-0.003626,0.001175,0.000692,-0.009408,-0.018588,-0.012829,-0.004046,0.001487,-0.01734,0.012893,0.024264,0.000913,-0.00114,-0.002263,0.003627,-0.015473,0.006059,-0.007148,0.010001,0.006826
Xiongnu,0.084229333,-0.128295667,0.053928667,0.054264,-0.053650667,0.011805667,-0.004152,-0.008461667,-0.015202667,-0.028793333,-0.010231,-0.006743333,0.003568333,-0.0239,0.015788333,0.027888,-0.000868667,0.000296,0.000292667,0.002334667,-0.011563333,0.006965667,-0.000287,0.013937,0.007664333
Xianbei,0.0387,-0.395041,0.097674,-0.020672,-0.08894,-0.049921,0.017156,0.028153,0.007976,0.012028,-0.020623,0.004046,-0.004757,0.00234,0.004207,0.013392,0.006258,-0.005448,-0.00993,0.007504,-0.027202,0.003339,-0.027731,-0.001807,0.004311

axlredneck

07-05-2024, 08:35 AM

https://i.ibb.co/ZT16cd6/IMG-20240705-140217.jpg

Dzungaria_West_IA-HE_mixed,0.0653061,-0.2312869,0.0684474,0.021318,-0.056318,-0.0152344,0.0060512,0.0114226,-0.0030422,-0.0119592,-0.0139859,-0.0011052,0.002806,-0.0149494,0.0091274,0.0030661,-0.0021675,-0.0022962,0.0007698,0.008379,-0.0185454,-0.0011281,-0.0062394,-0.0008132,-0.0033529
Saka,0.0857739,-0.1156978,0.0614975,0.0476886,-0.0436564,0.0023308,-1.68e-05,0.0017966,-0.0115701,-0.0231569,-0.0103812,-0.0020339,0.0017628,-0.0228651,0.0151036,0.0060612,-0.0051316,-0.0009772,-0.0011851,0.0055919,-0.0200629,0.0044691,-0.0008627,0.0018419,-0.0020101
Rest,0.0346044,-0.40467055,0.07887225,-0.0182379,-0.0753104,-0.0415822,0.0151532,0.0258616,0.00974965,0.0048373 5,-0.01939295,0.00028785,0.0043708,-0.00307585,0.0001631,-0.00142655,0.00227865,-0.0042747,0.00370215,0.01255965,-0.01626915,-0.0095239,-0.01430445,-0.00479585,-0.0053671

axlredneck

07-08-2024, 09:20 AM

mtDNA: T2b (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/T2b/)
Period: Xiongnu
Region: Burkhan Tolgoi, Arkhangai

https://i.ibb.co/GpZL4C0/IMG-20240708-144701.jpg

Leto

07-08-2024, 11:11 AM

mtDNA: T2b (https://www.yfull.com/mtree/T2b/)
Period: Xiongnu
Region: Burkhan Tolgoi, Arkhangai

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/GpZL4C0/IMG-20240708-144701.jpg
How much Steppe and East Eurasian is this one? I can't find the coordinates.

axlredneck

07-08-2024, 11:40 AM

How much Steppe and East Eurasian is this one? I can't find the coordinates.

Late_Xiongnu_Sarmatian:BUR001,0.093335,-0.045699,0.032809,0.048773,-0.046778,0.009482,-0.00799,0.007384,-0.011249,-0.019681,-0.020948,0.01109,0.004757,-0.022983,0.020222,-0.002519,-0.013821,-0.017863,0.014581,0.007253,-0.01697,-0.002349,0.001232,-0.000602,-0.007664
Iranic,0.10315543,0.05913372,-0.02184436,0.04322092,-0.04838047,0.02170503,0.00177371,0.00587749,-0.03340883,-0.02978275,-0.01020426,0.00625842,-0.00437904,-0.01305881,0.01962224,0.0013808,-0.02002271,-0.00386323,0.00672004,-0.00418903,-0.00479893,-0.00247815,-0.00020772,-0.00376103,0.00010706
Xiongnu,0.09314078,-0.0830663,0.05292715,0.05310278,-0.0452372,0.00473322,-0.00220277,0.00267717,-0.00457387,-0.01751759,-0.01592705,0.00563334,0.00377567,-0.02456589,0.01611328,-0.00292972,-0.00625882,-0.0079129,0.01446475,0.0081633,-0.01620315,-0.00163581,0.00282477,-0.00051811,-0.00807092
Noise,-0.484219907,0.371257449,-0.303390912,-0.411726032,-0.233982762,0.131190157,-1.697540268,0.979364669,0.12882863,0.20820241,-1.628838985,1.330730901,0.758777607,-0.348035827,0.823983279,-0.169657157,-1.036560631,-2.748542272,0.527571624,0.552608924,-0.920679336,-0.12728706,-0.205837042,0.18119189,-0.417464607

axlredneck

07-08-2024, 01:43 PM

Y-DNA: R-Y174827 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y174827/) (Xiongnu)
mtDNA: N9a2'4'5'11 (https://yfull.com/mtree/N9a2'4'5'11/)
Age: c. 1 BCE
Region: Gol Mod 2, Arkhangai

https://i.ibb.co/FzjPMCr/IMG-20240627-223007.jpg

Xiongnu_East_Asian:DA39,0.028456,-0.411289,0.04714,-0.040698,-0.012925,-0.013666,0.015276,0.009692,-0.000205,0.004556,-0.04693,-0.002248,-0.003568,-0.007569,0.006243,0.006629,0.005215,-0.000253,-0.004399,-0.001251,-0.012228,0.001978,-0.003821,-0.002289,0.002634
Xianbei,0.0269074,-0.41016483,0.08701579,-0.02554891,-0.07330952,-0.05055942,0.02357811,0.01876782,0.0139033,0.00950 464,-0.03380689,0.00171362,-0.01565496,-0.00406934,0.01623826,0.01239731,0.01110551,-0.00244774,-0.00538958,0.00654409,-0.03210836,-0.00163941,-0.01793028,-0.00329964,0.00670352
Han,0.0224394,-0.454667,-0.0003771,-0.070091,0.0635283,0.0276101,0.0073186,9.9e-05,-0.0141997,0.0028116,-0.067948,-0.0075363,0.0111706,-0.0081396,-0.0075033,-0.000966,-0.0003351,0.0026064,-0.0038789,-0.0114161,0.0132981,0.005229,0.012712,-0.0009811,-0.0014713
Xiongnu,0.08287249,-0.11965248,0.04996981,0.03903185,-0.04840208,0.00235234,0.00244075,0.00186087,-0.01874195,-0.02389264,-0.00868483,0.00196926,-0.00675222,-0.03228622,0.01968361,0.01204117,-0.0045565,-0.00210157,0.00011028,0.00537945,-0.02637316,0.00907021,-0.00288031,-0.00307918,-0.00223749

axlredneck

07-08-2024, 02:43 PM

Found this on Wikipedia:

Relationship between ethnicity and status among the Xiongnu

Although the Xiongnu were ethnically heterogeneous as a whole, it appears that variability was highly related to social status. Genetic heterogeneity was highest among retainers of low status, as identified by their smaller and peripheral tombs. These retainers mainly displayed ancestry related to the Chandman/Uyuk culture (characterized by a hybrid Eurasian gene pool combining the genetic profile of the Sintashta culture and Baikal hunter-gatherers (Baikal EBA), or various combinations of Chandman/Uyuk and Ancient Northeast Asian Ulaanzuukh/Slab Grave profiles.

axlredneck

07-09-2024, 11:23 AM

Sixteen individuals (some closely related to one another) were affiliated to sub-haplogroup belonged to Hg R1a- Z2125 and 4 to Hg R1a-Z95. Five individuals were affiliated to sub-Hg Q1a-M120. Two individuals belonged to Hg N, one to sub-Hg J1 and one to sub-Hg G1. The last one could not be assessed with certainty.

Paper: Genetic evidence suggests a sense of family, parity and conquest in the Xiongnu Iron Age nomads of Mongolia

The J1 could end up under J-Y2919 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y2919/) or J-Z18293 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z18293).
There are 3 instances of J1 from Xiongnu era Mongolia: 2 under the former and 1 under the latter.
The former Y-lineage was brought to the eastern Steppe by Kangju / Sogdians and the latter by Persians.

axlredneck

07-09-2024, 04:29 PM

Y-DNA: J-PH1795 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-PH1795/) (Xiongnu/Yuezhi)
mtDNA: B5a2a1a (https://yfull.com/mtree/B5a2a1a/)
Age: c. 70 CE
Region: Tamiryn Ulaan Khoshuu, Arkhangai

https://i.ibb.co/2s8gKdD/IMG-20240709-215305.jpg

RUS_Late_Xiongnu_Han:TUH002,0.044391,-0.311768,0.035072,-0.012274,-0.011387,0.004183,0.00517,0.001154,-0.011862,-0.007654,-0.046118,-0.004346,0.003271,-0.016928,-0.004072,0.009679,0.008605,0.000253,-0.002514,-0.003377,-0.002496,0.01014,0.004807,-0.00253,0.006227
Han,0.01549412,-0.44518574,0.00842709,-0.06074925,0.03893186,0.01906614,0.00461901,-0.00615304,-0.00906395,0.00083334,-0.08259672,-0.00526942,0.00923863,-0.00850467,-0.01830616,0.00832425,0.01403292,-0.00134466,-0.00286796,-0.0048682,0.0113166,0.01796234,0.01045089,-0.00264772,0.01187491
Xiongnu/Yuezhi,0.0811557,-0.1337861,0.053378,0.0477523,-0.054767,-0.0010936,0.0010481,0.0050164,-0.0207346,-0.0219373,-0.0081846,-0.0049003,0.000788,-0.0304008,0.0082109,0.0123021,0.0031525,0.0019385,-0.0016465,-0.0033562,-0.0118791,0.0054677,0.0026203,-0.0009278,0.0010175
Xianbei,0.02686496,-0.42251427,0.07537128,-0.03570962,-0.05559693,-0.03624463,0.02229809,0.01639759,0.00907075,0.0101 1205,-0.03754818,0.00135462,-0.01160935,-0.0018405,0.00839207,0.00560057,0.00663513,0.00054 095,-0.00423911,0.00251247,-0.02377309,-0.00423242,-0.00985119,-0.0078602,0.00249736

axlredneck

07-10-2024, 12:11 PM

DA39 Elite
Y-DNA: R-Y174827 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y174827/) (Xiongnu)
mtDNA: N9a2'4'5'11 (https://yfull.com/mtree/N9a2'4'5'11/)
Age: c. 1 BCE
Region: Gol Mod 2, Arkhangai

Before this study, only one other individual from an elite square tomb had been analyzed in a genome-wide manner: DA39 from Tomb 1 at the imperial elite site of Gol Mod 2 in central-north Mongolia. This adult male, buried in one of the largest square tomb complexes excavated to date, surrounded by at least 27 satellite burials, and containing rare exotic items such as Roman glass bowls, was likely a chanyu, or ruler of the empire. Like the elite women at the western frontier, he also had very high eastern Eurasian ancestry (deriving 39.3 and 51.9% from SlabGrave1 and Han_2000BP, respectively, and the rest from Chandman_IA; data file S2C) and was genetically similar to TAK002 in tomb THL-64 (Fig. 3B). Such patterns of ancestry, stratified by indicators of status and power, provide clues as to the nature of the political formation of the Xiongnu and the relative power dynamics of the empire’s diverse political actors.

Source: Genetic population structure of the Xiongnu Empire at imperial and local scales (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10104459/)

axlredneck

07-12-2024, 09:00 AM

Y-DNA: J-Y2919 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y2919/) (Iranic)
mtDNA: D5b1b2 (https://yfull.com/mtree/D5b1b2/)
Age: c. 70 CE
Region: Baruun Khovdiin Am, Sukhbaatar

https://i.ibb.co/9Tnjcfw/IMG-20240712-142815.jpg

Late_Xiongnu_Han:BRU001,0.043253,-0.330047,0.04714,-0.027132,-0.035391,-0.010598,0.010105,0.008538,0.003068,0.005103,-0.044657,0.001948,0.001189,-0.004266,-0.007057,0.00305,0.005476,0.003674,0.009679,0.0065 03,-0.006239,0.006059,-0.007148,-0.002289,-0.002874
Chinese,0.0166182,-0.4441924,0.0136518,-0.0588506,0.0390226,0.0112114,0.0082252,0.0014306,-0.0015546,0.0055034,-0.092269,-0.01106,0.0142414,-0.0075692,-0.0129476,-0.0003978,0.0051112,-0.0020522,-0.0057318,-0.0019008,0.0136762,0.015704,0.0105996,-0.002458,0.0122624
Iranic,0.1003617,0.0760974,-0.005066,0.0217596,-0.0289702,0.0180482,-0.0006928,-0.0047279,-0.0191863,-0.0094058,-0.0033499,0.0089125,-0.0071085,-0.0123423,0.0069968,0.0164596,0.0163898,0.0067939, 0.0021473,-0.0037451,-0.003311,0.0046342,-0.0051036,0.0033417,-0.0020445
Xianbei,0.04020494,-0.39732781,0.08496517,-0.02433984,-0.08262951,-0.03343359,0.01487104,0.01730014,0.01334422,0.0097 3425,-0.02968842,0.00748904,-0.00393115,0.00044817,-0.0082093,0.00063419,0.00203081,0.00609504,0.02154 531,0.0150368,-0.01928772,0.00069444,-0.01858669,-0.0040781,-0.01232265

axlredneck

07-14-2024, 12:50 PM

mtDNA: G2a5 (https://yfull.com/mtree/G2a5/)
Age: c. 85 CE
Site: Tamiryn Ulaan Khoshuu, Arkhangai

https://i.ibb.co/ZGyGnSW/IMG-20240714-181723.jpg

Late_Xiongnu_Sarmatian:BUR004,0.088782,-0.072103,0.026776,0.019057,-0.044008,0.001116,0.012456,-0.003231,-0.013703,-0.018406,-0.004384,0.00015,-0.004906,-0.017065,0.007465,0.012729,-0.000782,0.0019,0.006159,-0.003752,-0.013351,-0.0115,0.00493,0.006748,0.002395
Xiongnu,0.08552509,-0.12014314,0.05637411,0.02453896,-0.03934988,-0.00477586,0.01308565,-0.00164132,-0.00278709,-0.01272317,-0.00443577,0.00077384,-0.00501036,-0.01852116,0.00408634,0.01036905,-0.00180184,0.00263283,0.00642544,-0.00069993,-0.0159128,-0.01282343,0.00578975,0.00886581,0.0012698
Iranic,0.09855273,0.07201742,-0.06201833,0.00261112,-0.05798236,0.01879158,0.01056705,-0.00800004,-0.04645073,-0.03545449,-0.00422869,-0.00172152,-0.00459292,-0.01269652,0.01760098,0.01980885,0.00227752,-0.00029849,0.00535968,-0.01290821,-0.0056656,-0.00752971,0.00235075,0.00039457,0.0057706

axlredneck

07-19-2024, 10:41 AM

Y-DNA: J-Y2919 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y2919/) (Iranic)
mtDNA: Z1a (https://yfull.com/mtree/Z1a/)
Age: c. 70 CE
Region: Uguumur Uul, Selenge

https://i.ibb.co/cgw38Cd/IMG-20240719-160756.jpg

Late_Xiongnu_Sarmatian:UGU006,0.079676,-0.118817,0.031678,0.012597,-0.031083,0.000279,0.011986,0.010153,-0.024338,-0.020228,-0.011854,-0.001798,0.007284,-0.008808,0.006243,0.00769,-0.014342,0.001014,0.005405,0.003627,-0.017469,-0.002349,-0.003574,-0.006025,0.002634
Hunnic,0.05702612,-0.29986888,0.05536139,-0.00461955,-0.03809763,-0.0164386,0.01812591,0.01784597,-0.01726688,-0.00399325,-0.02425864,-0.00027538,0.00889604,-0.00725223,-0.00272627,0.00558909,-0.01628278,0.00108332,0.00475922,0.00672722,-0.02852836,0.00148031,-0.01105548,-0.0100022,-0.00038548
Iranic,0.10232588,0.06223488,0.00799461,0.02981355 ,-0.02406837,0.0169966,0.00584609,0.00246003,-0.03140912,-0.03646275,0.00055064,-0.00332062,0.00567196,-0.01036377,0.01521227,0.00979091,-0.01240122,0.00094468,0.00605078,0.00052678,-0.00640964,-0.00617831,0.00390748,-0.0020478,0.00565348