NW Georgians on G25

[axlredneck]

https://encyclopedia.pub/media/item_content/202205/tourismhosp0300027g001-627e10fd97b29.webp
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Kartvelian_languages.svg/2560px-Kartvelian_languages.svg.png

A thread dedicated to the genetics of NW Georgians from Abkhazia and Svaneti.

[axlredneck]

https://youtu.be/ixwZQfiUWvo


The Svans are an ethnic subgroup of the Georgians (Kartvelian) living mostly in Svaneti, a region in northwest Georgia. They speak the Svan language. The self-designation of the Svan is Mushüan.

[axlredneck]

https://i.ibb.co/bzZxdks/IMG-20240701-170433.jpg


Georgian_Svaneti,0.1105349,0.1172373,-0.049738,-0.0389036,-0.0433242,-0.0056397,0.01021,-0.0029999,-0.0682429,-0.0262826,-0.0002524,0.0123058,-0.0271719,0.004465,0.0027598,-0.0255308,0.0089963,-0.0068694,-0.012081,0.0183837,0.014835,0.0035034,0.0027936,-0.0134153,-0.0007451
Svan,0.11117767,0.1302643,-0.05949153,-0.04591136,-0.04636148,-0.00718392,0.0112221,-0.00356638,-0.07490773,-0.02717982,-0.00011306,0.01429584,-0.03154146,0.00513507,0.00307004,-0.02872113,0.01067306,-0.00770707,-0.01324421,0.01954794,0.01794552,0.00418009,0.0035 0921,-0.0149505,-0.0005889
NW_Caucasus,0.10860659,0.0781563,-0.02047741,-0.01788032,-0.03421236,-0.00100704,0.0071737,-0.00130046,-0.04824841,-0.02359094,-0.00067042,0.00633568,-0.01406322,0.00245479,0.00182908,-0.01595981,0.00396602,-0.00435639,-0.00859137,0.01489098,0.00550344,0.00147333,0.0006 4677,-0.0088097,-0.0012137

[axlredneck]

https://youtu.be/sqQciLIX-Ho


The Abkhazians are a Northwest Caucasian ethnic group, mainly living in Abkhazia, a disputed region on the northeastern coast of the Black Sea. The Abkhaz language belongs to the isolate Northwest Caucasian language family, also known as Abkhaz–Adyghe or North Pontic family, which groups the dialectic continuum spoken by the Abaza–Abkhaz (Abazgi) and Adyghe.

[axlredneck]

https://i.ibb.co/tPyHCCT/IMG-20240701-170407.jpg


Abkhazian,0.1090556,0.1166103,-0.0484208,-0.0389844,-0.039132,-0.0057728,0.011704,-0.0050153,-0.0622616,-0.023475,-0.0007253,0.0112757,-0.0252695,0.0040514,0.0033696,-0.0219193,0.0128637,-0.005249,-0.0111484,0.0211978,0.014456,0.0019071,0.002897,-0.0091109,-0.002537
Georgian,0.10969123,0.13336074,-0.05842568,-0.0478274,-0.04219628,-0.00805477,0.01316752,-0.00553485,-0.06715137,-0.02379212,-0.00015192,0.01356878,-0.02789282,0.00444453,0.00406838,-0.02593805,0.01476279,-0.00599005,-0.01303222,0.02194424,0.01675325,0.00211365,0.0039 3479,-0.01010344,-0.00254615
NW_Caucasus,0.1074994,0.0756006,-0.0239261,-0.0173343,-0.0316298,-0.0001859,0.0081209,-0.0037433,-0.0502901,-0.0226986,-0.0021291,0.0056616,-0.0188469,0.0030889,0.0016588,-0.0120803,0.0082142,-0.0034347,-0.0065363,0.0193703,0.0088317,0.0014014,0.0003562,-0.0066809,-0.0025146

[axlredneck]

https://i.ibb.co/wpBmFcp/IMG-20240616-181431.jpg

Abkhaz Y-DNA (n=322)

E - 0.93%
G - 45%
I - 1.55%
J1 - 1.55%
J2 - 30.44%
L - 3.73%
T - 0.62%
Q - 0.31%
R1a - 9.32%
R1b - 6.55%

[axlredneck]

The NW Caucasian ancestry in Svans is from Balkars.

[axlredneck]

I would like to know when the Abazinification of the natives occurred.

[interes]

https://i.ibb.co/wpBmFcp/IMG-20240616-181431.jpg

Abkhaz Y-DNA (n=322)

E - 0.93%
G - 45%
I - 1.55%
J1 - 1.55%
J2 - 30.44%
L - 3.73%
T - 0.62%
Q - 0.31%
R1a - 9.32%
R1b - 6.55%
Average abkhazians are darker than aveerage west georgians some abkhazians are georgians megrelians east regions are mostly megrelians

[axlredneck]

Balkar Y-lineages in Svans

https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-BZ663/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y57/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y91288/

[Leto]

I know Gedmatch is fucking old and stuff but I believe Svans get the highest "Caucasus" percentage of all peoples, sometimes as high as 61-63 percent. Quite "archaic" people.

[Frowning Man]

I know Gedmatch is fucking old and stuff but I believe Svans get the highest "Caucasus" percentage of all peoples, sometimes as high as 61-63 percent. Quite "archaic" people.

Mingrelians have, on average, a higher % of CHG.

[Frowning Man]

https://sun9-36.userapi.com/impg/Re0bv6R0-jhDtPFDw0MfMsGZ-Ecu-pOchtWh7A/Mwd6EmutP4g.jpg?size=1080x484&quality=95&sign=ac9976dc4722ac328ce729c1c7873646&type=album

[Frowning Man]

I know Gedmatch is fucking old and stuff but I believe Svans get the highest "Caucasus" percentage of all peoples, sometimes as high as 61-63 percent. Quite "archaic" people.

https://sun9-61.userapi.com/impg/u_NwFWTBWCZLjO6CafXgxdHrGHlyEjVzw2hDeA/gJXJs3dE46E.jpg?size=1280x557&quality=95&sign=cdc6ad10dd80ee1908c1ffb1a30cff0e&type=album

[Frowning Man]

I know Gedmatch is fucking old and stuff but I believe Svans get the highest "Caucasus" percentage of all peoples, sometimes as high as 61-63 percent. Quite "archaic" people.

% CHG among Mingrelians and Svans in order, from highest to lowest.

6 - Mingrelians (Including me)
8 - Svans

The Svans have one very high result with CHG - 64.4%. And very low - 50.8%.
But at the same time, we notice that on average, Mingrelians often show higher CHG numbers than Svans, for example 60+.

Average.
Svans: 64.4 + 62 + 60.2 + 59.8 + 59.6 + 57.8 + 57.2 + 50.8 = 471.8
471.8 : 8 = 58.9

Megrelians: 63 + 62.6 + 61.8 + 61.4 + 57.4 + 55.8 = 362
362 : 6 = 60.3

Svans average CHG - 58.9%
Megrelians average CHG - 60.3%
https://sun9-77.userapi.com/impg/zQSqbFRlNAZtNYoZlzMoPS1_DiNkV95IfkP5JA/4XpkA78QGPQ.jpg?size=925x1080&quality=95&sign=012350792cfee8da067464044d54aa07&type=album

[Frowning Man]

Target: Rati_scaled
Distance: 2.8224% / 0.02822412
100.0 Svan

[Frowning Man]

https://sun9-57.userapi.com/impg/AH03-ZoFCXP3paNGGf-cc2A8gLHDmxaU5weNXw/M0dewOFzPwE.jpg?size=1001x716&quality=96&sign=317016971a151cbe555d245a39a0818a&type=album

[Leto]

Target: Rati_scaled
Distance: 2.8224% / 0.02822412
100.0 Svan
What kind of raw data do you use? Genotek V5 is crap, use FTDNA instead or get Genotek V3. By the way, can you share your FTDNA results?

[axlredneck]

% CHG among Mingrelians and Svans in order, from highest to lowest.

6 - Mingrelians (Including me)
8 - Svans

The Svans have one very high result with CHG - 64.4%. And very low - 50.8%.
But at the same time, we notice that on average, Mingrelians often show higher CHG numbers than Svans, for example 60+.

Average.
Svans: 64.4 + 62 + 60.2 + 59.8 + 59.6 + 57.8 + 57.2 + 50.8 = 471.8
471.8 : 8 = 58.9

Megrelians: 63 + 62.6 + 61.8 + 61.4 + 57.4 + 55.8 = 362
362 : 6 = 60.3

Svans average CHG - 58.9%
Megrelians average CHG - 60.3%
https://sun9-77.userapi.com/impg/zQSqbFRlNAZtNYoZlzMoPS1_DiNkV95IfkP5JA/4XpkA78QGPQ.jpg?size=925x1080&quality=95&sign=012350792cfee8da067464044d54aa07&type=album

https://i.ibb.co/ZcWtbR8/IMG-20240701-210732.jpg

[Frowning Man]

https://i.ibb.co/ZcWtbR8/IMG-20240701-210732.jpg

So this is not an average result, these are the results of individual people. I'm talking about the average percentage of the group.

[Frowning Man]

What kind of raw data do you use? Genotek V5 is crap, use FTDNA instead or get Genotek V3. By the way, can you share your FTDNA results?

I bought the test, it came to my home, but I never sent it due to certain circumstances.

[axlredneck]

I would like to know when the Abazinification of the natives occurred.

.....

[Leto]

https://sun9-57.userapi.com/impg/AH03-ZoFCXP3paNGGf-cc2A8gLHDmxaU5weNXw/M0dewOFzPwE.jpg?size=1001x716&quality=96&sign=317016971a151cbe555d245a39a0818a&type=album
What's the R1a percentage for Megrelians, Imeretians, Ajarians and Gurians?

[axlredneck]

What's the R1a percentage for Megrelians, Imeretians, Ajarians and Gurians?

West Georgian Y-DNA (n=935)

G2 42%
G1 1%
J2 28%
R1b 6%
L 7%
E 4%
R1a 4%
J1 5%
I2 2%
Q 1%

[Frowning Man]

What's the R1a percentage for Megrelians, Imeretians, Ajarians and Gurians?

R1a:
Mingrelians - 3.5%
Imeretians - 4%
Gurians - 3%
Adjarians - 4.5%.
In general, very little.
The Svans have more of this haplogroup, apparently due to their proximity to the Karachais and Balkars.

The Mingrelians, Imeretians, Gurians and Adjarians have the most ancient J2a1-Y12378 and J2a1-Y11200 in the Caucasus. Especially among Mingrelians, these 2 subclades occupy the second and third places in frequency.


Migrelians:
• G2a1-z6653 - 26.48%
• J2a1-Y11200 (Pre-Maykop culture.) - 12.07%
• J2a1-Y12378 (Kotias/CHG) - 11.01%
• L1b-Y16187 - 7.20%
• G2a2-Y18479 - 6.56%

[Leto]

R1a:
Mingrelians - 3.5%
Imeretians - 4%
Gurians - 3%
Adjarians - 4.5%.
In general, very little.
The Svans have more of this haplogroup, apparently due to their proximity to the Karachais and Balkars.

The Mingrelians, Imeretians, Gurians and Adjarians have the most ancient J2a1-Y12378 and J2a1-Y11200 in the Caucasus. Especially among Mingrelians, these 2 subclades occupy the second and third places in frequency.


Migrelians:
• G2a1-z6653 - 26.48%
• J2a1-Y11200 (Pre-Maykop culture.) - 12.07%
• J2a1-Y12378 (Kotias/CHG) - 11.01%
• L1b-Y16187 - 7.20%
• G2a2-Y18479 - 6.56%
I see. It is expectedly low. Basically most Georgians are G2a and J2. Even fucking Stalin was G2a xD

[interes]

I see. It is expectedly low. Basically most Georgians are G2a and J2. Even fucking Stalin was G2a xD

Why fucking? Stalin xoroshim bil dlia ruskix razve netak? On pomog ruskomu narodu chtobi hitler ne sdelal iz nix xinkali

[Leto]

Why fucking?
It is just a word in case your English is deficient.

[interes]

It is just a word in case your English is deficient.

No moeva ruskava ti ponimaesh da? ������

[Leto]

No moeva ruskava ti ponimaesh da? ������
I only use English in public threads.

[Frowning Man]

I see. It is expectedly low. Basically most Georgians are G2a and J2. Even fucking Stalin was G2a xD

By the way, Stalin, as far as I know, had an Ossetian subclade G2a1, like the Os-Bagatarovskaya branch. It turns out he has Ossetian roots, but he grew up among Georgians and probably considered himself a Georgian. But the roots are not Georgian. This will explain why he didn’t look like a Georgian at all. On the forum he is considered the standard of a typical Georgian, which makes me laugh. The same Beria looks more like a Georgian than Che Stalin.


Yes, I believe that the proto-Kartvelians appeared due to the merger of several haplogroups and their languages. Due to this merger, I believe that other Caucasians also appeared; other haplogroups and languages ​​of these haplogroups took part in their appearance.

The only common component that took part in the formation of all Caucasians is J2a1-Y12378 (Kotias-СHG). But most of all he took part in the formation of the Georgians. Since the Georgians have the highest % of CHG and the highest % of the CHG subclade J2a1-Y12378.
Moreover, the ancestral home of the Georgians is the west of Georgia and the northeast. And the west of Georgia is a meta concentration of СHG and places of archaeological cultural KHG, without the presence there of foreign alien archaeological cultures of Kurra-Arrax, Trialeti, early Maykop.

If the ancestral home of the Georgians is the west, where there is a concentration of СHG, and since the Georgians have the highest percentage of СHG and their subclade, then the Georgians are the closest descendants of the СHG.

Proto-Kartvelians are an alliance:
• G2a1-z6653
• J2a1-Y11200 (pre-Maikop culture.)
• J2a1-Y12378 (Kotias/CHG)

[Leto]

By the way, Stalin, as far as I know, had an Ossetian subclade G2a1, like the Os-Bagatarovskaya branch. It turns out he has Ossetian roots, but he grew up among Georgians and probably considered himself a Georgian. But the roots are not Georgian. This will explain why he didn’t look like a Georgian at all. On the forum he is considered the standard of a typical Georgian, which makes me laugh. The same Beria looks more like a Georgian than Che Stalin.

I've heard the Ossetian rumor too but I think you are exaggerating. I mean come on, man, Georgia is practically full of people who look like this
https://images.saymedia-content.com/.image/t_share/MTg4MzUxMzc1ODA4MTQ0OTE1/the-early-years-of-joseph-stalin.jpg
He may not be the most typical Georgian, I'll grant you that but saying he doesn't look Georgian at all is a bit too much in my opinion.



Yes, I believe that the proto-Kartvelians appeared due to the merger of several haplogroups and their languages. Due to this merger, I believe that other Caucasians also appeared; other haplogroups and languages ​​of these haplogroups took part in their appearance.

The only common component that took part in the formation of all Caucasians is J2a1-Y12378 (Kotias-СHG). But most of all he took part in the formation of the Georgians. Since the Georgians have the highest % of CHG and the highest % of the CHG subclade J2a1-Y12378.
Moreover, the ancestral home of the Georgians is the west of Georgia and the northeast. And the west of Georgia is a meta concentration of СHG and places of archaeological cultural KHG, without the presence there of foreign alien archaeological cultures of Kurra-Arrax, Trialeti, early Maykop.

If the ancestral home of the Georgians is the west, where there is a concentration of СHG, and since the Georgians have the highest percentage of СHG and their subclade, then the Georgians are the closest descendants of the СHG.

Proto-Kartvelians are an alliance:
• G2a1-z6653
• J2a1-Y11200 (pre-Maikop culture.)
• J2a1-Y12378 (Kotias/CHG)
Is it not the same kind of J2a that the overwhelming number of Ingush belong to?

[Frowning Man]

I've heard the Ossetian rumor too but I think you are exaggerating. I mean come on, man, Georgia is practically full of people who look like this
https://imaal Georgian, I'll grant you that but saying he doesn't look Georgian at all is a bit too much in my opinion.


Is it not the same kind of J2a that the overwhelming number of Ingush belong to?

Bro, for me, as a Georgian, Stalin does not look like a typical Georgian at all. Someone else's face. His face is too narrow and pointed. He has 100% Ossetian roots - his subclade of the haplogroup confirmed this.

Here is the actor Kakha Kavsadze - he has a typical Georgian face.

[IMG]https://sun9-35.userapi.com/impg/uS3_AAvirUEb2gBQnPtFK1O3B-zaxgaOFLnymQ/Xx8qWrzYsE8.jpg?size=640x640&quality=95&sign=82d9784855516b3856cc4d7713a44342&type=album

https://sun9-77.userapi.com/impg/fJ-EdQO-ogzYEfdGSnUdunfnNVndQxi8JH6SXw/EFquC9qjR5Y.jpg?size=480x640&quality=95&sign=64c6dee012ba3cabc55be8e9b660e49c&type=album

https://sun9-53.userapi.com/impg/ZKEdvqUtQNHJuFlTuxJZnkA8c19A37-W50qxiw/8FlmPmmcJwg.jpg?size=575x600&quality=95&sign=0f25b237eb424a0f14ab44c35b6fea92&type=album

https://sun9-75.userapi.com/impg/UoeLUOPhPKvCAd_nBka95-dmX6XUbOZBNh0--Q/-CAuUiT05iY.jpg?size=480x640&quality=95&sign=148d0eb7a39cc5097c59712949e53786&type=album

https://sun9-61.userapi.com/impg/8fr3SNPL8Z4GL8yrgrL9huUUU6qpt-9dqh42gA/v7OcVU7GJkM.jpg?size=525x700&quality=95&sign=1f0065b9deab8ff73c161a49f3f052b4&type=album
https://sun9-47.userapi.com/impg/7e7ddMN8mVImKSVN_Me_8C0zts-WmIvi9XttJg/y6ZGsIB5A34.jpg?size=1280x853&quality=95&sign=aaa8539b94af0dfcbdf459868c0b6739&type=album

https://sun9-57.userapi.com/impg/7E7LAZjIl2b1CP4Trz5xGgv9BhujCrNQOZoOpw/5NRqst-CDFY.jpg?size=918x1080&quality=95&sign=24b1a3bde95fbc94cc56a8d92a6ade33&type=album

As for J2a - not at all. There are many different J2a subclades in the Caucasus.
Among the Ingush and Chechens, the subclade J2a1-STS6804, J1a-z1842, L1a-Y6266 is common.
There is little subclade of Caucasian Hunters and Gatherers (CHG) - J2a1-Y12378 among Chechens and Ingush -
Ingush - 1.39% (5 people out of 359 in the study)
Chechens - 1.58% (23 people out of 1455 in the study)

The largest subclade of Caucasian Hunters and Gatherers (CHG) - J2a1-Y12378 among Georgians is 9-10% (about 150 people from the project), reaches a peak among Western Georgians (especially Mingrelians).

So the Caucasian Hunters and Gatherers are most associated with the Georgians.

[Frowning Man]

I've heard the Ossetian rumor too but I think you are exaggerating. I mean come on, man, Georgia is practically full of people who look like this
https://images.saymedia-content.co/t_share/MTg4MzUxMzc1ODA4MTQ0OTE1/the-early-years-of-joseph-stalin.jpg
He may not be the most typical Georgian, I'll grant you that but saying he doesn't look Georgian at all is a bit too much in my opinion.



You know what I look like, you must understand that the standard Georgian is only me)

[interes]

I only use English in public threads.

ტი მოი მალენკი xuligan :)