On Magyar migration

[Äike]

On Magyar migration (http://languagesoftheworld.info/language-families/on-magyar-migration.html)


In yesteday’s posting (http://languages-of-the-world.blogspot.com/2011/01/on-finno-ugric-languages.html) I mentioned that from the linguistic point of view the closest relatives of Hungarian are the Khanty and Mansi languages spoken about 2,500 miles to the northeast, on the eastern slopes of the Urals. The affinity of Hungarian with Khanty and Mansi can be illustrated by such cognates as the following numerals: the Mansi χūrəm, the Khanty xutəm and the Hungarian három for ‘three’; or the Mansi χōt, the Khanty xut and the Hungarian hat for ‘six’. But unlike Hungarian which is spoken in Central Europe, Khanty and Mansi are the language spoken by the indigenous inhabitants of the Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug in the Russian Federation (its capital is Khanty-Mansiysk, an oil boom town and a centre of alpine skiing). Approximately 13,600 people speak Khanty and under 3,000 speak Mansi (generally, Mansi have been more assimilated by the Russians than the Khanty). So how come Hungarian is spoken so far from its linguistic brethren? The answer is migration.

The area around and just south of the Ural Mountains is probably the location of the original Finno-Ugric homeland. Historical linguists argue as to whether Finno-Ugric languages were originally spoken on the eastern or the western slopes of the Ural Mountains, but it is fairly clear that it was somewhere close to the Urals. The original homeland of the Hungarians (or Magyars, as they call themselves) -– known to historians as “Magna Hungaria” –- was located in the Kama basin in the upper Volga region.

But by the turn of the 9th century CE, the Magyars moved to the Pontic steppes, north of the Black Sea. In the next century, they moved further west, pushed by another nomadic group from the Eurasian flatlands: the Pechenegs. These were speakers of a Turkic language, which has heavily influenced the vocabulary of the Russian language.

Under the pressure from the Pechenegs, the Magyars crossed the Carpathian Mountains and by the end of the 9th century settled in the Great Hungarian Plain, the one place in Europe that looks like the great Eurasian flatlands and where pastoralist lifestyle can be easily maintained.

Here, the Magyars encountered a population speaking a Romance language, which was probably quite similar to an older form of Romanian. However, the Magyars managed to imposed their Ugric language on the local Romance-speaking population.

Interestingly, scholars now agree that the number of the Magyar conquerors was relatively small, at most about 30% of the resulting population. Moreover, their genes were further diluted by subsequent exchanges with their neighbors. As a result, the genetic effect of the Magyar conquest was modest at best: Hungary does not stand out on the genetic map of Europe, such as the map showing the distribution of PC2 (the second principle component of genetic variation among Europeans; the reader is referred to Cavalli-Sforza and Cavalli-Sforza 1995, Cavalli-Sforza 2000 for a more detailed discussion of how these principle components are calculated):

In contrast, Finns, Estonians, Karelians and especially the Saami are highlighted on the map of PC2. This genetic uniqueness of Finns (and related peoples) has been recently supported by the findings of the study conducted by the Institute for Molecular Medicine Finland (FIMM), which compiled the Finnish Gene Atlas based on DNA from more than 40,000 Finns. Unlike the Hungarians, speakers of Finnic languages managed to retain their special genetic profile because they descended from a more extensively Finno-Ugric founding population.

[HungAryan]

This is bullshit Romanian propaganda.
Let me give tell the truth.


kOHiC7MNkHs
ut1sDas1dL4


Also, before the Magyar conquest in 895, Hungary was occupied by Slavs, not by Romance-speaking peoples. Just to remind you :thumb001:

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Lol. We have another go at it, this time from an Eesti troll.

[HungAryan]

Where is Sylvanus when we need him?
He should explain everyone that Hungarians descended from Cro-Magnon Man B, and are indigenous to the Carpathian Basin.

[Treffie]

Where is Sylvanus when we need him?
He should explain everyone that Hungarians descended from Cro-Magnon Man B, and are indigenous to the Carpathian Basin.

So where did the language come from? I've always been fascinated with the Magyars btw, so I'm not trollin' ;)

[Sylvanus]

That is bullshit. We donno anything about the khanty and manshi peoples' pasts. F.e. we donno that they are the indogeneous people in Siberia or they ancestors migrated from Europe. Probably the last version is the true, they are a descendants of finno-ugric europeans people however they mixed with the local mongolid population.

Probably the finno-ugric urheimat was in Ukraine and they spread to Scandinavia and beyond the Ural. The ancient magyars stayed in the upper Volga till the Migration Period when a part of them moved southward to ukrainian steppe and after to the Carpathian-basin. The other part lived in Russia till the Mongol Invasion when their were massacred and enslaved by mongols and after these the rest assimilated to the russians.


We haven't got any evidence that the pecheneges pushed to ancient magyars to the Carphatian-basin. Moreover the ancient magyars were ever so many hence they could to assimilate easily the local slavic, germanic, turkic, roman (in Trans-Danubia), pre-roman peoples. Later the mongols, turkish and (crimean-)tatars massacred and enslaved this new, mixed population and the population compensated with south-german (and lil'bit north-german), south-polish (the "slovakians") and balkanic (serbs, croats, wallachians) people. That's all folks. :)

[HungAryan]

So where did the language come from? I've always been fascinated with the Magyars btw, so I'm not trollin' ;)

The Hungarian language - just like Finnish and Basque - is indigenous to Europe.
Both Finnish and Magyar came from the Gravettians. These Ancient people inhabited the Balkans in the Palaeolithic, and shifted towards Central Europe in the Neolithic.
After the Ice Age ended, some Gravettians went to Denmark and Scandinavia, because the reindeers migrated there. Those who stayed in Central Europe - the Carpathian Basin to be specific - became the proto-Magyars.
When the proto-Indo-Europeans started colonizing Europe, the proto-Magyars were driven to the North, to the Urals.
The proto-Finnics however in Scandinavia were largerly assimilated by the Germanic tribes, and the Saami, Finns and Estonians are their only remains.

Then, later on, the Magyars started leaving the Urals, and moving back to their homeland to the Carpathian Basin. Those who stayed became the Mansi and Khanty, they however race-mixed with various Siberian peoples later on, and also the Mongols.
The Magyars however kept their genes European.

[Treffie]

The Magyars however kept their genes European.

Yep, I think that most people know that the Magyars are genetically Central European.

[Pallantides]

All I know is... judging by genetic studies is that Hungarians have very little Asian influence and cluster close to other Central European populations.

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

All I know is... judging by genetic studies is that Hungarians have very little Asian influence and cluster close to other Central European populations.

Indeed. Quite ironic some Hungarian clown here makes stupid comparisions between Turks looking like Arabs whereas our ancestros were "from Siberia" when he's pretty much a Central European with almost 0% Siberian blood that speaks a West Siberian tongue.

Is not ironic?

Is ridiculous to me to see Krauts and Slavs dressed as mongols and living in yurts.

http://www.ernak-horde.com/magyars.jpg

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Indeed. Quite ironic some Hungarian clown here makes stupid comparisions between Turks looking like Arabs whereas our ancestros were "from Siberia" when he's pretty much a Central European with almost 0% Siberian blood that speaks a West Siberian tongue.

Is not ironic?

Is ridiculous to me to see Krauts and Slavs dressed as mongols and living in yurts.

http://www.ernak-horde.com/magyars.jpg

These people are dressed as their ancestors were dressed. It isn't a mongolic dress, but a nomad type dress, spread among all steppe populations, among them the Magyars. You are in no position to make ridiculing remarks on people who want to reconnect with their heritage, and old style of living. To be Hungarian is a spiritual and cultural identity foremost, but also contains a significant racial attribute. Today Hungarians cluster together by all these 3 factors, because they are genetically very close to each other, and racially White European.

[Sylvanus]

Indeed. Quite ironic some Hungarian clown here makes stupid comparisions between Turks looking like Arabs whereas our ancestros were "from Siberia" when he's pretty much a Central European with almost 0% Siberian blood that speaks a West Siberian tongue.

Is not ironic?

Is ridiculous to me to see Krauts and Slavs dressed as mongols and living in yurts.

http://www.ernak-horde.com/magyars.jpg

Hey man, can you read that hungarian language are not west siberian tongue but it have russian origin or are you just a troll?

Unfortunately these clothes are not so authentic, coz ancient magyars wore rather silk clothes or other type of wool clothes, not these rather siberian looking suits.

From Osprey books:

http://freymann.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/8-the-age-of-charlemagne.jpg?w=1000&h=

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/althistory/ru/images/thumb/1/13/Salard.JPG/800px-Salard.JPG

http://s2.images.www.tvn.hu/2010/11/09/20/18/www.tvn.hu_e05fb26b407ce44b81cfa3dc89a2183b.jpg?ht r=1

[Äike]

Lol. We have another go at it, this time from an Eesti troll.

I'm not a troll.

The closest linguistic relatives to the Hungarians are the Khanty and Mansi people, that's a fact.


The Hungarian language - just like Finnish and Basque - is indigenous to Europe.


Do you believe Kalevi Wiik's theory? (http://www.finlit.fi/booksfromfinland/bff/399/wiik.htm)

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9020/45043739.gif

Europe 5500BC, according to Kalevi Wiik:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5697/image7pu.jpg


Indeed. Quite ironic some Hungarian clown here makes stupid comparisions between Turks looking like Arabs whereas our ancestros were "from Siberia" when he's pretty much a Central European with almost 0% Siberian blood that speaks a West Siberian tongue.

The Hungarians are not from Siberia nor do they speak a Siberian language.

[Sylvanus]

The closest linguistic relatives to the Hungarians are the Khanty and Mansi people, that's a fact.


Unfortunately some people use to mix the linguistic relations with the biological relations. In this way germanics came from North-India, lol. Or Atlantis. ;)

[Albion]

And now Finnics and Ugrians hate each other...

:coffee:

Really, these pointless attacks against the Hungarians are quite boring. Magyars arrived from the European steppes and settled the westernmost steppe in Europe (Pannonia).
When in Pannonia they mixed with the European peoples already there but retained the Magyar culture.

I don't think it needs to be seen as anything more than this, Magyars were Europeans and settled amongst other Europeans, the steppes before the Turko-Mongol expansion were mainly Caucasian / white with the latter surviving in the European portion even after the Turks and Mongols had subjugated much of it.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

And now Finnics and Ugrians hate each other...

:coffee:

Really, these pointless attacks against the Hungarians are quite boring. Magyars arrived from the European steppes and settled the westernmost steppe in Europe (Pannonia).
When in Pannonia they mixed with the European peoples already there but retained the Magyar culture.

I don't think it needs to be seen as anything more than this, Magyars were Europeans and settled amongst other Europeans, the steppes before the Turko-Mongol expansion were mainly Caucasian / white with the latter surviving in the European portion even after the Turks and Mongols had subjugated much of it.

People need to remember that the Germanic and Celtic people were also on a "come and go" between Asia and Europe. Indeed the expansion of Turkic people from the Altaic region towards West changed the racial characteristics of Western Asia, which was predominantly White. The Bulgars, Magyars even Avars were White populations, but probably with some Turkic admixture.

[Äike]

And now Finnics and Ugrians hate each other...

:coffee:

Interesting sentence. What are you feelings towards the Indians and the Gypsies? You are more related to Gypsies, from your Indo-European perspective, than I am to Hungarians.

From your sentence, one would make out that we are as related as Northern-Italians and Southern-Italians.

"Finnics" and "Ugrians" have as much to do with each other as you do with Indians.

Us, Northern-Europeans, don't feel any relation to Hungarians or other Europeans in that region.


Really, these pointless attacks against the Hungarians are quite boring. Magyars arrived from the European steppes and settled the westernmost steppe in Europe (Pannonia).
When in Pannonia they mixed with the European peoples already there but retained the Magyar culture.

No one has stated otherwise, read the original post.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Interesting sentence. What are you feelings towards the Indians and the Gypsies? You are more related to Gypsies, from your Indo-European perspective, than I am to Hungarians.

From your sentence, one would make out that we are as related as Northern-Italians and Southern-Italians.

"Finnics" and "Ugrians" have as much to do with each other as you do with Indians.

Us, Northern-Europeans, don't feel any relation to Hungarians or other Europeans in that region.



No one has stated otherwise, read the original post.

Maybe Estonians don't but I know quite a few Finns do feel a relation.

[Äike]

Maybe Estonians don't but I know quite a few Finns do feel a relation.

They care even less about a "Finno-Ugric" unity, believe me.

We come from 2 different branches of the Finno-Ugric family.

If the Dutch feel no relation to the Indians, as the Dutch and the Indians descend from 2 different branches of the Indo-European family, then why should we be any different?

I can't think of any similarities between us and you. Even your language sounds completely alien to my ears.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

They care even less about a "Finno-Ugric" unity, believe me.

We come from 2 different branches of the Finno-Ugric family.

If the Dutch feel no relation to the Indians, as the Dutch and the Indians descend from 2 different branches of the Indo-European family, then why should we be any different?

I can't think of any similarities between us and you. Even your language sounds completely alien to my ears.

I knew personally Finn students who were in our country hugely interested in everything about our language, culture, so no need to continue generalizing.

[Äike]

I knew personally Finn students who were in our country hugely interested in everything about our language, culture, so no need to continue generalizing.

Why were those Finns in your country in the first place? Because they were interested in Hungary.

There are 5 million Finns in Finland.

Do you know that Estonians and Finns are like 100 times more similar to each other than Finns are to Hungarians, BUT there are some Finns who like to say that they feel no relation to Estonians whatsoever. I group them as wannabe-Swedes, who think that they're not Finnic anymore, there was one like that on this forum even.

A very large portion of Finns feel related to the Estonians, but almost none feel this with the Hungarians, really.

If you wiped out 95% of all the Indo-European people in the world, from the Irish to the Indians, then I doubt that the Irish would start feeling closer to the Indians. Small numbers don't change much.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Why were those Finns in your country in the first place? Because they were interested in Hungary.

There are 5 million Finns in Finland.

Do you know that Estonians and Finns are like 100 times more similar to each other than Finns are to Hungarians, BUT there are some Finns who like to say that they feel no relation to Estonians whatsoever. I group them as wannabe-Swedes, who think that they're not Finnic anymore, there was one like that on this forum even.

A very large portion of Finns feel related to the Estonians, but almost none feel this with the Hungarians, really.

If you wiped out 95% of all the Indo-European people in the world, from the Irish to the Indians, then I doubt that the Irish would start feeling closer to the Indians. Small numbers don't change much.

I don't know what is your agenda, but you are an outsider to Finnish-Hungarian relations, so whatever you may think you know, is from an outsider's loop. Between our two people this relationship, even if not as tight as between Estonians and Finns, but it exists even on official level.


The first official Finnish-Hungarian cultural exchange took place in 1937. The new post-war cultural agreement was signed in 1959. The Finnish-Hungarian Society was founded in Helsinki in 1950; its first president was Ele Alenius. Establishment of the Hungarian-Finnish Society (28 February 1989, Kalevala day) had to wait for the political changeover in Hungary.

The first twin city relationship was established between Lahti and Pécs in 1956, and between Kemi and Székesfehérvár the following year. The youngest twin cities are Nokia and Sárospatak (2004). Cultivation and development of relations between twin cities is a central area of operation for both the Finnish-Hungarian Society and the Hungarian-Finnish Society. The member organisations of the Societies organise various lectures, exhibitions, and concerts, where they present each other's culture, society, and history. Exchanges and visits between cities form an important part of the activities of the Societies.

There are 63 pairs of Finnish-Hungarian twin cities. According to the Hungarian-Finnish Society in Hungary there are 59, and according to the Finnish-Hungarian Society in Finland 56 active friendship associations.

And let's not forget, that on the latest Eurovision song contest Finns gave Hungary 12 points (maximum), and we finished among the last, so yeah, I do believe there is more generosity from Finns towards Hungarians than you try to disprove here :)

[Äike]

I don't know what is your agenda, but you are an outsider to Finnish-Hungarian relations, so whatever you may think you know, is from an outsider's loop. Between our two people this relationship, even if not as tight as between Estonians and Finns, but it exists even on official level.

I am talking about the people, you are talking about the official stances of countries.


And let's not forget, that on the latest Eurovision song contest Finns gave Hungary 12 points (maximum), and we finished among the last, so yeah, I do believe there is more generosity from Finns towards Hungarians than you try to disprove here :)

Cool story, bro.

I don't understand what happened to you Hungarians on this forum.

At one point you say that you share no relation with Finno-Ugric people whatsoever and are descendants of the Europid Huns who settled in Hungary, but now you have special relations with Finns. :p

You should decide your mind already.

[hajduk]

People need to remember that the Germanic and Celtic people were also on a "come and go" between Asia and Europe. Indeed the expansion of Turkic people from the Altaic region towards West changed the racial characteristics of Western Asia, which was predominantly White. The Bulgars, Magyars even Avars were White populations, but probably with some Turkic admixture.

Yes. THe turkic theory(jewish soviet fabrication) of ancient teh bulgarians was debunked long time ago, but it is still used against us by our ''friends" serbs, monkeydonians, greeks and sometimes romanians, :coffee:

[Unurautare]

This is bullshit Romanian propaganda.
Let me give tell the truth.

Also, before the Magyar conquest in 895, Hungary was occupied by Slavs, not by Romance-speaking peoples. Just to remind you :thumb001:

Romanian propaganda? :rolleyes: We generally don't even give a f... about Hungary or Hungarians,it's you ponyriders that are obsessed with being "European","Babylonians","Carpathians","Magyar-Turanic Jesus" etc. and talking bullshit about the neighbors I can even give specialized hungolian propaganda sites(Sagitta Judaica can give them to you too ofc ;) ).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonian_Romance


The Romanized population of Pannonia (for which the historian Theodore Mommsen calculated a population of about 200,000 around the 4th century) survived Barbarian invasions (by the Huns, Goths, Avars and others)

Slavs built "Romance" churches? xD Remains of a Christian church of the 5th century in Sopianae (Pécs), Pannonia (Hungary)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Hungary_Pecs_2005_June_085.jpg


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Hungary#Hungary_and_Central_A sia


Hungary and Central Asia

A number of Hungarian anthropologists and linguists have long had an interest in the Turkic peoples, fueled by the eastern origin of the Hungarians' ancestors.[2] The Hungarian ethnomusicologist Bence Szabolcsi explained this motivation as follows: "Hungarians are the outermost branch leaning this way from age-old tree of the great Asian musical culture rooted in the souls of a variety of peoples living from China through Central Asia to the Black Sea".[3]

After the dissolution of the USSR, this scholarly and cultural interest naturally led to Hungary's establishment of relations with the newly independent Central Asian states, in particular Kazakhstan. The Hungarian scholar Tibor Tot concluded, based on cultural and DNA evidence, that a certain subgroup of Kazakhs in Kostanay Province (known as the Madjars[4] or Turgay Magyars[5]) is the one Central Asian community with the closest genetic relation to the Hungarians. The news was enthusiastically met in official and diplomatic circles, and to celebrate this connection some events were held, including a Kazakh-Hungarian festival named "Meeting Across Centuries" (Russian: Встреча через века) that took place in 2007.[6]

This is from Budapest universities:
http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/IJHG/IJHG-06-0-000-000-2006-Web/IJHG-06-3-177-280-2006-Abst-PDF/IJHG-06-3-177-183-2006-263-Decsey-K/IJHG-06-3-177-183-2006-263-Decsey-K-Text.PDF


© Kamla-Raj 2006 Int J Hum Genet, 6(3): 177-183 (2006)
Human Chromosomal Polymorphism in a Hungarian Sample
Kata Décsey1, Orsolya Bellovits2 and Györgyi M. Bujdosó2
1. Semmelweis University, Department of Forensic Medicine, Budapest, Hungary, 1091
2. Hungarian Academy of Sciences - Semmelweis University, Institute of Forensic Medicine,
Budapest, Hungary, 1091
E-mail: bujgyo@igaz.sote.hu
KEYWORDS Chromosomal variation; banding; Hungarian population
ABSTRACT In the Department of Forensic Medicine of Semmelweis University, Budapest, Hungary we carried out
a study about human chromosomal polymorphism in a Hungarian population. Q-band method was used for the
analysis of chromosomes 3, 4, 13, 14, 15, 21, 22 and Y and C-band for chromosomes 1, 9, 16 and Y. The
polymorphism of the representative Hungarian population was compared to the data of different ethnic groups found
in the literature, such as Central-European, Italian, Indian and Turkish data. The result shows that there is a relatively
small difference between the Hungarian and Indian group, the Central-Europeans differ more, and the most distant
relatives are the Turks among the populations mentioned in this paper.

EDIT: Doesn't the 1st Hungarian Chronicle mentions Romanians in Pannonia and Transylvania? or was that some sort of ancient Romanian propaganda?

[Unurautare]

I am talking about the people, you are talking about the official stances of countries.



Cool story, bro.

I don't understand what happened to you Hungarians on this forum.

At one point you say that you share no relation with Finno-Ugric people whatsoever and are descendants of the Europid Huns who settled in Hungary, but now you have special relations with Finns. :p

You should decide your mind already.

That's typical behavior from Hungarians,on official level too. They will play(read ass-lick) anybody if possible,I can re-post pictures with them holding "friendship" festivals with Turks,of course they also have "friendships" with Poles and Germans,but when their "friends" need help they will always stay far from trouble. Poles helped them,including in the 1848-1849 revolution,but they didn't help the Poles after World War 1 against communist Ukrainians and Russians(Romanians did help the Poles then),also during World War 2(most Poles and their treasury escaped via Romania while those in Hungary were put in jails) while at the same time Hungarians got benefits from the Germans(parts of Slovakia and Romania),but the Germans weren't helped by the Hungarians in Russia,Hungary sending just some small token force there(and it's main army was in reserve to attack Slovakia and Romania later on),and when Russians came they wanted to surrender but Germans occupied them and installed the puppet Arrow Cross party in Hungary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_Cross_Party#Arrow_Cross_Rule


In October 1944, Horthy negotiated a cease-fire with the Soviets and announced that Hungarian troops should lay down their arms. In response, Nazi Germany launched Operation Panzerfaust, a covert operation which forced Horthy to resign, after which he was put into "protective custody" in Germany. With Nazi approval, the Arrow Cross Party seized Budapest. Szálasi was declared prime minister of the Kingdom's new "Government of National Unity" and "nation leader" of Hungary.

[Äike]

That's typical behavior from Hungarians,on official level too. They will play(read ass-lick) anybody if possible,I can re-post pictures with them holding "friendship" festivals with Turks,of course they also have "friendships" with Poles and Germans,but when their "friends" need help they will always stay far from trouble. Poles helped them,including in the 1848-1849 revolution,but they didn't help the Poles after World War 1 against communist Ukrainians and Russians(Romanians did help the Poles then),also during World War 2(most Poles and their treasury escaped via Romania while those in Hungary were put in jails) while at the same time Hungarians got benefits from the Germans(parts of Slovakia and Romania),but the Germans weren't helped by the Hungarians in Russia,Hungary sending just some small token force there(and it's main army was in reserve to attack Slovakia and Romania later on),and when Russians came they wanted to surrender but Germans occupied them and installed the puppet Arrow Cross party in Hungary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_Cross_Party#Arrow_Cross_Rule

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50513_22934260202_6848_n.jpg

[The Ripper]

Lol. We have another go at it, this time from an Eesti troll.

Its pathetic how people always cry "troll" whenever someone has a differing point of view. :roll eyes

Great thread.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Its pathetic how people always cry "troll" whenever someone has a differing point of view. :roll eyes

Great thread.

It's purpose is to gather anti-Hungarian trolls. Seen it already.

[Talvi]

This thread is totally confusing me.

The Hungarians seem to be talking about something I have never heard of.

It somehow seems like originating from Urals is a shameful shameful thing.

[Äike]

It's purpose is to gather anti-Hungarian trolls. Seen it already.

I wasn't being a troll at all, I posted an interesting article, without even expressing my own opinion. You Hungarians are a funny bunch.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

I am talking about the people, you are talking about the official stances of countries.



Cool story, bro.

I don't understand what happened to you Hungarians on this forum.

At one point you say that you share no relation with Finno-Ugric people whatsoever and are descendants of the Europid Huns who settled in Hungary, but now you have special relations with Finns. :p

You should decide your mind already.

You are behaving very immaturely. First of all I responded to some of your false assertions. Why shouldn't people know the real truth? You tried to deny any friendship between Finns and Hungarians, and I proven you that you are wrong. There shouldn't necessarily have to be any kinship between nations to be friendly to one another ;)

[Unurautare]

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50513_22934260202_6848_n.jpg

Maybe for the Romans\Latins!

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~cfford/342romanempiremap.gif

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/images/Roman_Empire_2.jpg

[Sagitta Hungarica]

I wasn't being a troll at all, I posted an interesting article, without even expressing my own opinion. You Hungarians are a funny bunch.

In this case I misjudged you. But seeing the vast anti-Hungarian atmosphere on this forum lately one can never know what are the true intentions of a foreigner making threads about Hungarians.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Maybe for the Romans\Latins!

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~cfford/342romanempiremap.gif

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/images/Roman_Empire_2.jpg

The Romans are ancient history, try to live in the present ;)

[Äike]

You are behaving very immaturely. First of all I responded to some of your false assertions. Why shouldn't people know the real truth?

Your posts are very random.

What is your truth?

1. Hungarians descend from the Huns who settled in Hungary.

or

2. Hungarians are the native inhabitants of Europe and have been in Hungary since people moved to Europe (Kalevi Wiik's theory)

3. Obviously you don't believe this part: Hungarians originate from the Volga river region and are related to the Khanty and the Mansi.


You tried to deny any friendship between Finns and Hungarians, and I proven you that you are wrong. There shouldn't necessarily have to be any kinship between nations to be friendly to one another ;)

Sometimes I have to think if there's a friendship between Finns and Estonians, as some Finns have really surprised me in a bad way. At the same time, you're saying that "Finns and Hungarians have a strong kinship feeling", while you are talking about not being related even to your closest relatives, the Khanty and Mansi. All of this is very confusing.

That's like a German saying: "I'm not related to the Dutch, but I do have a strong kinship feeling towards Armenians."

[hajduk]

Sagitta, Do magyar consider us a friendly nation? We're hated by our neighbours, so are hungarians. I think the relations between hungarian and bulgarian nationalists are good?
Our people are always welcomed on your day of honour http://www.sofiaecho.com/shimg/zx500y290_791782.jpg

[Unurautare]

The Romans are ancient history, try to live in the present ;)

You do realize you live in petit Hungary but have fancy-smacy SF signature right? :<

[The Ripper]

But seeing the vast anti-Hungarian atmosphere on this forum

Right. There is also a vast anti-Spanish, anti-Romanian, anti-American, anti-British, anti-Italian, anti-Greek, anti-Sicilian, anti-Russian, anti-Serbian, anti-Albanian, anti-Finnish and anti-Latvian conspiracy on TA. Its life.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Sagitta, Do magyar consider us a friendly nation? We're hated by our neighbours, so are hungarians. I think the relations between hungarian and bulgarian nationalists are good?
Our people are always welcomed on your day of honour http://www.sofiaecho.com/shimg/zx500y290_791782.jpg

People who know more about our history are aware that Bulgars and Magyars were related, and yes, they are sympathetic to Bulgars, but the overall population doesn't know much even about the Balkans in general. You are a one big Slavic region for them.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Your posts are very random.

What is your truth?

1. Hungarians descend from the Huns who settled in Hungary.

or

2. Hungarians are the native inhabitants of Europe and have been in Hungary since people moved to Europe (Kalevi Wiik's theory)

3. Obviously you don't believe this part: Hungarians originate from the Volga river region and are related to the Khanty and the Mansi.



Sometimes I have to think if there's a friendship between Finns and Estonians, as some Finns have really surprised me in a bad way. At the same time, you're saying that "Finns and Hungarians have a strong kinship feeling", while you are talking about not being related even to your closest relatives, the Khanty and Mansi. All of this is very confusing.

That's like a German saying: "I'm not related to the Dutch, but I do have a strong kinship feeling towards Armenians."

I didn't said there is a strong friendship between Finns and Magyars, that's what you said. All I know is, wherever I meat Finns, I was treated with much friendliness because I'm Hungarian, and vice versa. I guess this Finno-Ugric theory had one positive effect: closing two nations distant and foreign to one another. Why would you have any problem with this is beyond me.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Right. There is also a vast anti-Spanish, anti-Romanian, anti-American, anti-British, anti-Italian, anti-Greek, anti-Sicilian, anti-Russian, anti-Serbian, anti-Albanian, anti-Finnish and anti-Latvian conspiracy on TA. Its life.

I'm aware that some nations are not tolerated very much, but I am very surprised my nation also falls into this category. Probably people are still being easily misguided.

[The Ripper]

I didn't said there is a strong friendship between Finns and Magyars, that's what you said. All I know is, wherever I meat Finns, I was treated with much friendliness because I'm Hungarian, and vice versa. I guess this Finno-Ugric theory had one positive effect: closing two nations distant and foreign to one another. Why would you have any problem with this is beyond me.

Karl has a very dogmatic view on which peoples get along with each other. ;)

There has been a Finnish-Hungarian connection via academic and cultural circles in both countries since the time of Finnish independence and even earlier. There is a general sympathy, which goes both ways.

[Äike]

I didn't said there is a strong friendship between Finns and Magyars, that's what you said. All I know is, wherever I meat Finns, I was treated with much friendliness because I'm Hungarian, and vice versa. I guess this Finno-Ugric theory had one positive effect: closing two nations distant and foreign to one another. Why would you have any problem with this is beyond me.

I have no problem with this at all. I just have a hard time believing you.

Before WW2, the Hungarians even helped the Livonians. I was just talking about the wide-spread theory among Hungarians, that they descend from Huns and aren't related to the Khanty and Mansi. As far as I know, you agree with this theory?


Karl has a very dogmatic view on which peoples get along with each other. ;)

There has been a Finnish-Hungarian connection via academic and cultural circles in both countries since the time of Finnish independence and even earlier. There is a general sympathy, which goes both ways.

Some Finns don't get along with Estonians at all and state that they have no relation to us whatsoever, thus it's hard for me to believe, that the Finns could harbor any visible "friendliness" feelings towards even more distant relatives, the Hungarians.

[The Ripper]

Some Finns don't get along with Estonians at all and state that they have no relation to us whatsoever, thus it's hard for me to believe, that the Finns could harbor any visible "friendliness" feelings towards even more distant relatives, the Hungarians.

So if some Finns don't like Estonians, Finns can't like Hungarians? Great logic.

As hard as it is to believe, its fact.

[Äike]

So if some Finns don't like Estonians, Finns can't like Hungarians? Great logic.

As hard as it is to believe, its fact.

I like Udmurts. If I go to Umdurtia and say that I like them, does that mean that the entire Estonian nation likes them?

This Hungarian used this logic before, while talking about Finns who visited Hungary.

I would be very happy if everyone would like everyone, excluding the Russians of course.

Finns liking Hungarians and valuing their common Finno-Ugric heritage is a good thing.

[The Ripper]

I like Udmurts. If I go to Umdurtia and say that I like them, does that mean that the entire Estonian nation likes them?

...

If a Finn goes to Estonia and says "why, Estonia sux," does it mean the entire Finnish nation hates Hungary? :D


This Hungarian used this logic before, while talking about Finns who visited Hungary.

...

Eh, it was you who said that you find Finnish-Hungarian friendship hard to believe because some Finns don't like Estonians. :D

And I said that his impression is correct. I can confirm it. I've talked to Hungarians and Finns about this.


Finns liking Hungarians and valuing their common Finno-Ugric heritage is a good thing.

Yes.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

I have no problem with this at all. I just have a hard time believing you.

Before WW2, the Hungarians even helped the Livonians. I was just talking about the wide-spread theory among Hungarians, that they descend from Huns and aren't related to the Khanty and Mansi. As far as I know, you agree with this theory?



Some Finns don't get along with Estonians at all and state that they have no relation to us whatsoever, thus it's hard for me to believe, that the Finns could harbor any visible "friendliness" feelings towards even more distant relatives, the Hungarians.

Can you argue that statement? I personally didn't read about such a chapter occurring in our history.

On the other hand we actually aided Finland during the Winter War, but the admiration between the two nations goes back to the beginning of the 20th century.


At the dawn of the 20th century the Finnish people, living in Tsarist Russia, were receptive to the idea of Finno-Ugric affinity and regarded the proud and freedom-loving Hungarian nation as an ideal.

After the First World War, Finland became independent, but Hungary lost the war and roughly two-thirds of its territory as a result of the Treaty of Trianon. Finland was one of the few European countries that felt sympathy towards Hungary. Hungarians in turn, then regarded newly independent and democratic Finland as an ideal. Because of this, good connections formed between the two countries during the 1920s.

When the Winter War broke out between Finland and the Soviet Union, many Hungarians felt great sympathy towards the Finns and wanted to help them.

During the Winter War Hungary helped Finland by giving monetary donations, armaments and military volunteers.

The Hungarian-Finnish Association began to organize nationwide collections in the first days of December as “Brother for brother” and “Hungarian Mothers for Finnish Children”. Collecting of donations and clothes was organised by the Hungarian Red Cross, which also organized the shipment of this aid to Finland. Nobel Prize winner Albert Szent-Györgyi offered all of his prize money to Finland.

Count Pál Teleki’s government sent armaments and war equipment valued at 1 million Hungarian pengős by British and Italian ships during the Winter War (with knowledge and accord of governor Miklós Horthy). It contained 36 anti-aircraft guns with 10,250 cartridges, 16 mortars with 32,240 shells, 300 rifles with 520,000 cartridges, 30 armor-piercing rifles with 3,300 cartridges, 300,000 hand of grenades, 3,654 land mines, 93,680 helmets, 223 military transceivers, and 26,000 bandoleers.

During the Winter War, around 25,000 Hungarian men applied to fight in Finland. Finally, 350 applications were accepted.

[Äike]

Can you argue that statement? I personally didn't read about such a chapter occurring in our history.

Hungary sent them financial aid in the 1920's and 1930's, until Latvia banned all Finnish, Estonian and Hungarian help to the native inhabitants of Latvia.

[The Ripper]

Hungary sent them financial aid in the 1920's and 1930's, until Latvia banned all Finnish, Estonian and Hungarian help to the native inhabitants of Latvia.

And yet, still in 1939 a Livonian cultural centre was opened with Finnish and Estonian money. The cultural revival ended with Soviet occupation, not with Latvian repression.

[Äike]

And yet, still in 1939 a Livonian cultural centre was opened with Finnish and Estonian money. The cultural revival ended with Soviet occupation, not with Latvian repression.

Still, Latvians are our arch-enemies. Before the 13th century, Estonians and Livonians made joint-attacks against the Baltic invaders. ;)

[The Ripper]

Still, Latvians are our arch-enemies. Before the 13th century, Estonians and Livonians made joint-attacks against the Baltic invaders. ;)

The sad part is, Karl isn't even joking. He actually thinks like this.

[Äike]

The sad part is, Karl isn't even joking. He actually thinks like this.

I was joking, didn't you notice the ";)".

[The Ripper]

I was joking, didn't you notice the ";)".

You're not joking (your visitor messages say as much).

[Äike]

You're not joking (your visitor messages say as much).

I was joking in this thread, I have nothing against the Latvians. I'm completely neutral towards them...

You started a serious discussion with me in the visitor messages and I responded with seriousness.

[HungAryan]

So now we have an Estonian vs Finnish debate :D

[Sagitta Hungarica]

So now we have an Estonian vs Finnish debate :D

This is why I hate generalizations. One individual isn't representative on their entire nation. Individuals with different national background may argue with one another, but let's not create national feuds out of them. It's easier to get carried away rather than being level.

[Äike]

So now we have an Estonian vs Finnish debate :D

Nah, The Ripper is just trying to fuck around with me (again).

[HungAryan]

Nah, The Ripper is just trying to fuck around with me (again).

Ah, so you're having some fun... :D


p7vffZxMDaY

[Äike]

Ah, so you're having some fun... :D


p7vffZxMDaY

Wtf is that shit? :blink:

[HungAryan]

Wtf is that shit? :blink:

A parody made by me.

[Waidewut]

I was joking in this thread, I have nothing against the Latvians. I'm completely neutral towards them...


Interesting... From your posts in other threads I got an impression about you thinking Latvians are chauvinistic anti-Estonian imperialists, with very large governmental propaganda and brainwash levels.

[Äike]

Interesting... From your posts in other threads I got an impression about you thinking Latvians are chauvinistic anti-Estonian imperialists, with very large governmental propaganda and brainwash levels.

The Estonian consensus is that you, Latvians, act negatively towards us, Estonians, on the internet and this causes our negative response.

On the internet, many Latvians can be total cunts. But I'm certain that in real life, Latvians are normal people who have nothing against us and know how to behave. Even after all the hate that I and the Estonian people have received from Latvians in the past, in the wide interweb, I still have no hard feelings against your people nor your country.

There was a crazy Latvian guy here once, who was banned for harassing me and the Estonians. The inferiority complexes of the Latvian people really show out in the internet.

My posts might be bad in your eyes, but your compatriots caused it.

[Waidewut]

The Estonian consensus is that you, Latvians, act negatively towards us, Estonians, on the internet and this causes our negative response.

On the internet, many Latvians can be total cunts. But I'm certain that in real life, Latvians are normal people who have nothing against us and know how to behave. Even after all the hate that I and the Estonian people have received from Latvians in the past, in the wide interweb, I still have no hard feelings against your people nor your country.

There was a crazy Latvian guy here once, who was banned for harassing me and the Estonians. The inferiority complexes of the Latvian people really show out in the internet.

My posts might be bad in your eyes, but your compatriots caused it.

The truth about why Latvians started to post negatively about you and other Estonians is because of this:
When Latvians asked you to explain why Estonians are Nordic and why Latvians aren't, you instantly started posting about Estonia being 30% richer, Latvians being corrupt and ruled by oligarchs and being responsible for all car thefts in Estonia. Basically you proved your Nordicness by stating Estonians are superior to Latvians, culturally or whatever.
Now imagine someone saying you could never be as economically successful as someone else, because of the cultural group you belong to. Most probably you would get some negativism back.

[HungAryan]

What does this Estonia vs Latvia discussion have to do with the origin of Hungarians?
Next to nothing... :rolleyes:

[Äike]

The truth about why Latvians started to post negatively about you and other Estonians is because of this:
When Latvians asked you to explain why Estonians are Nordic and why Latvians aren't, you instantly started posting about Estonia being 30% richer, Latvians being corrupt and ruled by oligarchs and being responsible for all car thefts in Estonia. Basically you proved your Nordicness by stating Estonians are superior to Latvians, culturally or whatever.
Now imagine someone saying you could never be as economically successful as someone else, because of the cultural group you belong to. Most probably you would get some negativism back.

Small correction, Lithuanians are responsible for the absolute majority of car thefts in Estonia, not Latvians.

Also, it was a Lithuanian who stated (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16643&highlight=Lithuanian) that the Estonians are "superior"/richer to the Balts because of our Nordicness, not me.

Also, you took many sentences out of context and I haven't used them when talking about Estonian culture. Most of my negative remarks about Latvia were caused by the now-banned Latvian member named Eriks.

[Äike]

What does this Estonia vs Latvia discussion have to do with the origin of Hungarians?
Next to nothing... :rolleyes:

Hungarians are Finno-Ugric, Estonians are Finno-Ugric and Latvians are 50% Finno-Ugric.

An Estonian-Latvian discussion has a lot to do with Hungarians. ;)

[Pallantides]

When Latvians asked you to explain why Estonians are Nordic and why Latvians aren't, you instantly started posting about Estonia being 30% richer

If it's only about wealth, I guess Norway was not a Nordic country until after World War 2.;)

[Waidewut]

Also, it was a Lithuanian who stated (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16643&highlight=Lithuanian) that the Estonians are "superior"/richer to the Balts because of our Nordicness, not me.

There are several errors in that article.
Did you know that historically Lutheranism reached 70% of all the Latvian people?



Also, you took many sentences out of context and I haven't used them when talking about Estonian culture. Most of my negative remarks about Latvia were caused by the now-banned Latvian member named Eriks.

Ok, then explain why Estonian culture is Nordic and why the Latvian one isn't.
With no negative remarks.

By the way, there is this really informing article about Latvia having close relationships with Nordic countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_countries#Latvia), on wikipedia.

[Äike]

There are several errors in that article.
Did you know that historically Lutheranism reached 70% of all the Latvian people?

Did you know that in 2011, Latvia is more Catholic than Lutheran?


Ok, then explain why Estonian culture is Nordic and why the Latvian one isn't.
With no negative remarks.

You should be doing the explaining (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4858&highlight=Lithuanian).


By the way, there is this really informing article about Latvia having close relationships with Nordic countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_countries#Latvia), on wikipedia.

Cool story, bro.

[Waidewut]

Did you know that in 2011, Latvia is more Catholic than Lutheran?
Lets say that the Lutherans became more irreligious, just like in the Nordic countries, while the Catholics continued believing. I'm saying that 70% of Latvians are Lutheran cultural influenced, but only a part of them still are actual Lutherans.



You should be doing the explaining (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4858&highlight=Lithuanian).

Meaning, why Latvians don't consider themselves Nordic?
Probably because of super-low confidence and nationwide inferiority thoughts towards actual Nordics.

[Äike]

Lets say that the Lutherans became more irreligious, just like in the Nordic countries, while the Catholics continued believing. I'm saying that 70% of Latvians are Lutheran cultural influenced, but only a part of them still are actual Lutherans.

Cool story, bro. Latvia has a split Catholic/Lutheran past, that's a fact.


Meaning, why Latvians don't consider themselves Nordic?
Probably because of super-low confidence and nationwide inferiority thoughts towards actual Nordics.

No.

Why do Latvians think that Estonians are Nordic, but say otherwise when talking face-to-face? ;)

Just read the link that I gave you. Latvians see Estonia as "Nordic-like" and "better than Latvia". These are not my words, these are the dominant opinions in Latvia.

Anyway, think about all of this, I have to go. :P

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Hungarians are Finno-Ugric, Estonians are Finno-Ugric and Latvians are 50% Finno-Ugric.

An Estonian-Latvian discussion has a lot to do with Hungarians. ;)

:rolleyes2:

[HungAryan]

An Estonian-Latvian discussion has a lot to do with Hungarians. ;)

Yeah, sure Karl (Marx), I bet it does :D

[Magyar the Conqueror]

Karl, why am I getting the impression that you are somehow ashamed and disgusted at the idea of being (somehow) related to us?

Can I ask how did the Finns or Estonians make their entrance to Europe?

[Äike]

Karl, why am I getting the impression that you are somehow ashamed and disgusted at the idea of being (somehow) related to us?

That's completely wrong. I get the impression that you, the Hungarians, think that you descend from Hunnic warriors and are completely unrelated to us.


Can I ask how did the Finns or Estonians make their entrance to Europe?

The ancestors of Finns & Estonians were in Europe long before Finns & Estonians came into existence.

The Finno-Ugric proto homeland was in Europe, the Volga river area, we didn't come to Europe, we are native to Europe.

You maybe thought about the Indo-Europeans? They entered Europe from Asia.

[W. R.]

Can I ask how did the Finns or Estonians make their entrance to Europe?:old

A legend says that once when a bunch of Fenno-Ugrians were riding to the West on their horses, they saw a big stone on which there was a caption:

To the left: Hungary. Warm. Sunny. Grapes.
To the right: Estonia. Cold. Wet. Herring. Potatoes.

Those among them who were literate turned to the left.

[Äike]

:old

A legend says that once when a bunch of Fenno-Ugrians were riding to the West on their horses

http://www.google.ee/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Implied+Facepalm_5dbc0f_357845.jpg&sa=X&ei=1F1CT9arHIbd4QT6mMi4CA&ved=0CAkQ8wc4FA&usg=AFQjCNEu6LhmDhFuMG13BX2MvipgdSGGBA


Indo-Europeans were the ones who invaded marsh-dwelling Finno-Ugric territories on their horses.

The reason why Estonians and Finns still speak Finno-Ugric languages, contrary to the Scandinavians for example, is because Finland is the marshiest country in the world and Estonia comes 2nd.

Marshes saved us from IE invasion. :)

[Magyar the Conqueror]

Karl what I meant was, that when the Hungarians came to the Carpathian Basin in the 9th century, they raided, burnt down villages, etc etc.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Kalandozasok.jpg

Some Hungarian ultranationalists (not me) find it offensive to be compared to "pacifist farmer people" like the Finns and Estonians,


The problem with Hungarians is that some believe they are descended from Scythians, others believe the Huns, others believe that its a mixture of Huns and Scythians, others believe they were the original settlers descended from Gravetians, who were chased and pushed north by invaders,then came back.

[Äike]

Karl what I meant was, that when the Hungarians came to the Carpathian Basin in the 9th century, they raided, burnt down villages, etc etc.

Yes indeed, you Hungarians are radically different from the Finno branch of the Finno-Ugric family.


Some Hungarian ultranationalists (not me) find it offensive to be compared to "pacifist farmer people" like the Finns and Estonians,

Estonians aren't "pacifist farmer people". Farming was brought here by Indo-Europeans. Estonians and Finns used to be "pacifist hunter-gatherers".



In the 10th century, if some Hungarian would have seen an Estonian warrior from Saaremaa, then the Hungarian would have probably pissed himself. :p

"Pacifist Estonians" burnt down the Swedish capital in the 11th century, kept the coastal inhabitants of Sweden & Denmark living in fear and strongly disrupted German trade on the Baltic sea.

The "pacifist Estonian vikings" were so peaceful, that the Danes, Swedes and Germans had to form a coalition and ask for help from the pope to defeat us. ;)

[Magyar the Conqueror]

Karl I never said Estonia was pacifist, I have great respect for Finland and Estonia, and they have proven themselves as true warriors.

However some Hungarians think that, and some Estonians probably think Hungarians are mongol/turk wogs, but those people are minorities.


In the 10th century, if some Hungarian would have seen an Estonian warrior from Saaremaa, then the Hungarian would have probably pissed himself.
Thats debatable, we made it as far as Spain ;)

[Pallantides]

In the 10th century, if some Hungarian would have seen an Estonian warrior from Saaremaa, then the Hungarian would have probably pissed himself. :p



Pissed himself laughing?

[Magyar the Conqueror]

I think the biggest problem is that Hungary has a long-distance relationship with Finland and Estonia, and as we know, long-distance relationships rarely work, hence I propose

*drum-roll*

Ubermensch Union


http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o559/magyarthegreat/ubermensch-union-1.jpg

[Äike]

I think the biggest problem is that Hungary has a long-distance relationship with Finland and Estonia, and as we know, long-distance relationships rarely work, hence I propose

In all seriousness, just because there are few Finno-Ugrians, it doesn't mean that the few who have remained, are automatically more similar.

If you killed off all Indo-Europeans except the Irish and the Indians, then would the Irish and the Indians be more similar to each other, because they are the only remaining Indo-Europeans? I doubt it.

Estonians are more similar even to the Germans than the Hungarians.

[Magyar the Conqueror]

In all seriousness, just because there are few Finno-Ugrians, it doesn't mean that the few who have remained, are automatically more similar.

If you killed off all Indo-Europeans except the Irish and the Indians, then would the Irish and the Indians be more similar to each other, because they are the only remaining Indo-Europeans? I doubt it.

Estonians are more similar even to the Germans than the Hungarians.

Thats true, but the difference is not as big as Indian and Icelandic (I think thats what you said a further back)

Anyway, I don't know what your problem is, us Hungarians are surrounded by enemies, and we dont really have that many allies, Finno-Hungarian, or Estonian-Hungarian (with your permission) won't do anybody any harm.

I mean, we gave Finns equipment during the Winter War, as well as sent volunteers, :

It contained 36 anti-aircraft guns with 10,250 cartridges, 16 mortars with 32,240 shells, 300 rifles with 520,000 cartridges, 30 armor-piercing rifles with 3,300 cartridges, 300,000 hand of grenades, 3,654 land mines, 93,680 helmets, 223 military transceivers, and 26,000 bandoleers.

And the Finns returned the favour in the Battle of Budapest.

Look at it this way, if Russia decided to be a bitch again, its better to have allies considering you as brothers, rather than allies who dont really care about you.


Estonians are more similar even to the Germans than the Hungarians.
Believe it or not Hungarian wogs are also very similar to Germans, genetically ;)

[Pallantides]

Hungarians and Germans are closer to each other genetically than Estonians are.

[Äike]

Thats true, but the difference is not as big as Indian and Icelandic (I think thats what you said a further back)

Anyway, I don't know what your problem is, us Hungarians are surrounded by enemies, and we dont really have that many allies, Finno-Hungarian, or Estonian-Hungarian (with your permission) won't do anybody any harm.

I nor any other Estonian has anything against Hungarians, but I just said that we aren't exactly close or similar to each other.

From a linguistic point of view, Hungarians are to us what Indians are to Germans. :p You are from the other branch of the language family.

Finno-Ugric -> Finno-Permic -> Finno-Volgaic -> Finno-Lapic -> Finnic -> Estonian/Finnish

Finno-Ugric -> Ugric -> Hungarian

Now compare:

Indo-European -> Balto-Slavo-Germanic -> Germanic -> Western-Germanic -> German

Indo-European -> Aryano-Greco-Armenic -> Armeno-Aryan -> Indo-Iranian -> Sanskrit -> Hindi/Marathi/Gujarati/Panjari/Bengali

Don't overrate our linguistic closeness.

[Äike]

Hungarians and Germans are closer to each other genetically than Estonians are.

No shit?

I was talking about culture.

[Argyll]

This is bullshit Romanian propaganda.
Let me give tell the truth.


kOHiC7MNkHs
ut1sDas1dL4


Also, before the Magyar conquest in 895, Hungary was occupied by Slavs, not by Romance-speaking peoples. Just to remind you :thumb001:

Hungary was also occupied by Celts ;)

[Magyar the Conqueror]

No shit?

I was talking about culture.

Culture wise, Germany and Hungary is not that different .

[Magyar the Conqueror]

I nor any other Estonian has anything against Hungarians, but I just said that we aren't exactly close or similar to each other.

From a linguistic point of view, Hungarians are to us what Indians are to Germans. :p You are from the other branch of the language family.

Finno-Ugric -> Finno-Permic -> Finno-Volgaic -> Finno-Lapic -> Finnic -> Estonian/Finnish

Finno-Ugric -> Ugric -> Hungarian

Now compare:

Indo-European -> Balto-Slavo-Germanic -> Germanic -> Western-Germanic -> German

Indo-European -> Aryano-Greco-Armenic -> Armeno-Aryan -> Indo-Iranian -> Sanskrit -> Hindi/Marathi/Gujarati/Panjari/Bengali

Don't overrate our linguistic closeness.

I wasnt talking about languages.

[oszkar07]

Bump