Fertility Rates & Religiosity

[Ouistreham]

Once upon a time (from the Middle-Age to the 60's), higher birth rates were correlated with string religious practice. Think of Irelans, Poland, Southern Italy etc.

This is no longer the case.

Now in Western Europe, the more church-goers are people, the less children they make. The correlation is abolutely clear :

Highest fertility rates :
1.97 France
1.92 UK
1.77 Norway
1.74 Denmark
1.73 Finland
1.67 Sweden
1.66 The Netherlands

Lowest fertility rates :
1.25 Czechia
1.27 Romania
1.29 Poland
1.32 Italy
1.37 Greece
1.42 Germany
1.47 Spain

With the maverick exception of the Czech Republic, the second group consists of countries where religious belief and practice is notoriously above average.

The low fertility map replicates that of Christian belief:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Europe_belief_in_god.svg/655px-Europe_belief_in_god.svg.png

Take also notice that anti-immigration movements are strong in the most secular nations (France, Scandinavia, the Netherlands), and virtually non-existent in the most religious countries.

It seems that the more people are bothering about the survival of their soul, the less they care of the survival of their nation.

Any better explanation?

[Padre Organtino]

These figures are given for the population in general? Then you may have nationalistic movement corresponding to countries with large immigrant communities that have high fertility and thus provoke tensions. That said I mostly agree with your points.

[Libertas]

The anti-immigration movements are certainly not doing much to curtail immigration into France and the Netherlands.

[GeistFaust]

Yes, I can agree with this. This is a good post because it rids us of the lie that not being religious and not following along with Christianity, which is influenced by Zionism, is a bad thing for fertility rate. Its interesting to see that in reality this twisted backwards and that those nations resistance tend to probably have the most belligerent Cultural Marxist movements entrenched in their confines.

[Oreka Bailoak]

w2cENue7JxI

The amount of kids that one has is due almost entirely to culture in the first world. And here's an example why...

Singapore has tried everything to increase birth rates and has the best laws in the world for having children, and yet Singapore has one of the lowest birth rates in the world. It's a total demographic nightmare for government demographers, they've spent millions of dollars trying to find out why this is the case, and they've discovered that their culture doesn't promote having kids.

People that are religious have more kids than those who aren't religious. By a wide margin at that, for example here in america, the often religious who are against abortion have on average 40% more children than those who are for abortion. In other words, in every generation they almost double, this is because these groups typically promote kids and family as an important cultural value.

A culture with kids and family being highly valued = high birth rate.
^Pretty simple idea lol.

[Joe McCarthy]

What we have here are a bunch of secular countries with below replacement birthrates. I dealt with this in its essentials on another thread, but suffice it to say that Frenchmen are not reproducing at the levels of Irishmen, Mormons, Amish, conservative Christian Protestants in the US, or the highly religious populations of sub-Saharan Africa. Moreover, to quote from your link on another thread:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-08-10-europe-religion-cover_x.htm


Among the most striking consequences of the decline of religion has been fewer children. The birth rate throughout much of Western Europe has fallen so drastically that the population in many countries is shrinking, indicating that women throughout Europe now routinely use artificial birth control, in defiance of the Roman Catholic Church's teachings.

"The biggest single consequence of the declining role of the church is the huge decline in fertility rates," Inglehart says. With fewer people entering the workforce, countries like Italy, Germany and France won't be able to maintain the generous welfare programs that have given most workers a lifetime of economic security.

[Joe McCarthy]

We should also add that the supposedly super-secular countries of Britain and the Netherlands have higher church attendance rates than Romania and Spain. Your breakdown of religious vs. Secular is thus not even accurate.

[Der Steinadler]

....

It seems that the more people are bothering about the survival of their soul, the less they care of the survival of their nation.

Any better explanation?

I'm not into forming an opinion based on statistics, but this comment rings true and my opinion is that this is down to the individualising nature of Christianity.

For all its altruictic rhetoric, christianity has as its prime concern - the saving of one's own soul, or the soul of other people - as if that's what people have been put on the Earth to do.

The notion that the soul of a people is in the blood of a people and does not need 'saving', rather, it requires passing on to a next generation, does not enter into the mind of your average christian.

[Albion]

Ban contraception and abortion (or at least make them morally questionable through propaganda - basically fulfilling the church's former role).
Problem solved.

[askra]

Once upon a time (from the Middle-Age to the 60's), higher birth rates were correlated with string religious practice. Think of Irelans, Poland, Southern Italy etc.

This is no longer the case.

Now in Western Europe, the more church-goers are people, the less children they make. The correlation is abolutely clear :

Highest fertility rates :
1.97 France
1.92 UK
1.77 Norway
1.74 Denmark
1.73 Finland
1.67 Sweden
1.66 The Netherlands

Lowest fertility rates :
1.25 Czechia
1.27 Romania
1.29 Poland
1.32 Italy
1.37 Greece
1.42 Germany
1.47 Spain

With the maverick exception of the Czech Republic, the second group consists of countries where religious belief and practice is notoriously above average.

The low fertility map replicates that of Christian belief:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Europe_belief_in_god.svg/655px-Europe_belief_in_god.svg.png

Take also notice that anti-immigration movements are strong in the most secular nations (France, Scandinavia, the Netherlands), and virtually non-existent in the most religious countries.

It seems that the more people are bothering about the survival of their soul, the less they care of the survival of their nation.

Any better explanation?

there a lot of factors that influence the total fertility rate, and i don't think it is related with religiosity.

France and Scandinavia have a higher fertility rate because they have a very efficient family welfare programme.

countries as Italy (where fertility rate is low) great part of welfare is focused towards retirement pensions and assistence to aged people, and not towards families and young people (in italy there is a deficiency of free public kindergartens, and home rentals are extremely expensive for example).

[Comte Arnau]

The correlation is abolutely clear :

Highest fertility rates :
1.97 France
1.92 UK
1.77 Norway
1.74 Denmark
1.73 Finland
1.67 Sweden
1.66 The Netherlands

Lowest fertility rates :
1.25 Czechia
1.27 Romania
1.29 Poland
1.32 Italy
1.37 Greece
1.42 Germany
1.47 Spain

With the maverick exception of the Czech Republic, the second group consists of countries where religious belief and practice is notoriously above average.

I wouldn't say it's that clear. As you say, the Czech Republic is an exception as big as St Vitus' Cathedral. And Germany and Spain are not above the average in belief and practice, according to data on people's atheism and church attendance.

[Zephyr]

I wouldn't say it's that clear. As you say, the Czech Republic is an exception as big as St Vitus' Cathedral. And Germany and Spain are not above the average in belief and practice, according to data on people's atheism and church attendance.

The only thing clear about these numbers it's the difference between the amount of APN (aliens per nation) keeping the stats up.

Soon you'll be able to travel by tunnel between Algeria and Pakistan.

[Bobby Martnen]

Take also notice that anti-immigration movements are strong in the most secular nations (France, Scandinavia, the Netherlands), and virtually non-existent in the most religious countries.

It seems that the more people are bothering about the survival of their soul, the less they care of the survival of their nation.

Any better explanation?

The more secular countries have accepted many more immigrants than the more religious ones, thus, the citizens of the more secular ones are having to deal with immigration-related problems much more than the citizens of the religious ones.