Netherlands-Ukraine Mesolithic G25 [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

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Upsilander

09-11-2024, 07:30 PM

Alternate model with West and East mesolithics of the same time (c. 6870 BC) + the regulars:

(Scaled)

Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882,0.126344,0.091398,0.14 67,0.183465,0.066166,0.043228,0.003055,0.009923,0. 02352,-0.054124,-0.000162,-0.020532,0.033151,-0.015689,0.031487,0.03633,0.005998,0.000887,0.0011 31,0.033641,0.039555,0.014715,-0.010106,-0.053261,0.005987
Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866,0.12862,0.133034,0 .093526,0.090763,0.075091,0.025379,0.012691,0.0149 99,0.024543,0.000182,-0.003573,-0.000599,0.000743,0.002615,0.032301,0.021082,-0.007302,0.010388,0.002137,0.016258,0.032817,0.013 973,-0.01023,-0.044705,0.007903
Oceanian_Papuan,-0.0459844,-0.2410866,-0.2637584,0.3092414,0.2069308,-0.509589,-0.001974,0.0070152,-0.041273,-0.0119546,-0.018902,0.000869,0.0013974,-0.00311,0.0001628,-0.0003186,-0.0021906,-0.0018498,-0.001081,-0.0015256,0.0023458,0.0018052,0.0012324,0.0018314, 0.0016048
African_Nigerian,-0.6321452,0.064613,0.02324,0.0182899,-0.0031929,0.0146768,-0.0412151,0.0464115,-0.0510541,0.0350349,0.0082612,-0.0014613,0.0233582,0.0032685,0.012147,-0.0095133,0.0067475,0.003294,0.006065,-0.0035332,0.0003899,0.0012829,-0.000724,-0.0002561,-0.000928
Pinarbasi_HG,0.1205796,0.182879,0.0046507,-0.1007254,0.0553803,-0.0481473,-0.003243,-0.0059476,0.0417251,0.08825,0.0083913,0.0137577,-0.0241877,0.0027643,-0.0441575,-0.0149632,0.0187436,0.0020344,0.0126007,-0.0137085,-0.0145349,0.0058138,-0.0047895,-0.0018391,-0.0068301
Nganasan,0.04607556,-0.40763356,0.1544837,0.00202844,-0.15847882,-0.08824092,0.02761354,0.0420029,0.02909144,0.01285 488,0.10069696,0.00973238,-0.0049267,-0.02773364,-0.02081676,-0.01034464,0.00331436,0.01400164,0.02512448,-0.00024764,0.04220558,-0.01291678,0.03254234,-0.00104348,0.01370884
Iran_N,0.0450478,0.0725128,-0.1507442,-0.0065076,-0.1148557,0.0178132,0.0139621,-0.0018905,-0.0756186,-0.0496011,-0.00099,-0.002099,0.00474,-0.0059417,0.0266246,0.0516964,-0.0069899,0.0050295,0.0132112,-0.0320451,0.0075763,-0.0249938,-0.0090666,-0.0350722,0.0195965
East_Asian,0.0229543,-0.445479,0.0130733,-0.059109,0.0362118,0.0093428,0.003525,0.0005768,-0.0065105,0.0106607,-0.0740492,-0.0074685,0.011546,-0.0070647,-0.0110612,-0.004464,0.0003042,0.0035895,0.001676,-0.0092547,0.0270355,-0.01659,0.0049093,0.003374,-0.0419723

no ADC or RP. Admix + distances mandatory.

Bonus: Only if you have Amerindian

Amerindian_South,0.0498545,-0.3086191,0.1193211,0.098838,-0.1121441,-0.0159245,-0.296842,-0.3508006,-0.0166276,-0.0195176,-0.0068365,-0.003057,0.0034041,0.015345,-0.0076954,0.0067354,0.0066365,0.0004435,0.0031049, 0.0014885,-0.0015221,0.010164,-0.0033645,-0.0026509,-0.002407
Amerindian_North,0.0529278,-0.328016,0.1120048,0.0774392,-0.1061738,-0.0184068,-0.1983488,-0.2347978,-0.0037325,-0.020137,0.0082817,-0.0034098,0.0063925,6.87e-05,-0.0151328,-0.004508,-0.0005215,0.0032622,0.0115015,0.0073472,0.0038682,-0.0107578,0.0027115,0.0062055,0.0092805

Target: Upsilander_Scaled
Distance: 5.9619% / 0.05961925
36.4 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
34.2 Pinarbasi_HG
22.8 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
6.6 Iran_N

Distance to: Upsilander_Scaled
0.10147589 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.20949474 Pinarbasi_HG
0.21236454 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.32719822 Iran_N
0.62188645 East_Asian
0.62736986 Nganasan
0.78990532 African_Nigerian
0.82243844 Oceanian_Papuan

Dušan

09-11-2024, 07:41 PM

Target: Dušan_scaled
Distance: 6.5776% / 0.06577571
47.6 Pinarbasi_HG
36.0 Ukraine_Mesolithic
12.6 Iran_N
3.4 Netherlands_Mesolithic
0.4 East_Asian

Distance to: Dušan_scaled
0.13620533 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.18866059 Pinarbasi_HG
0.24222096 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.30357048 Iran_N
0.60370639 East_Asian
0.61450858 Nganasan
0.77081103 African_Nigerian
0.80505651 Oceanian_Papuan

Gallop

09-11-2024, 07:56 PM

Target: Gallop_scaled
Distance: 4.2789% / 0.04278939
48.2 Netherlands_Mesolithic
41.0 Pinarbasi_HG
7.2 Iran_N
1.6 African_Nigerian
1.2 Nganasan
0.8 Ukraine_Mesolithic

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 4.2213% / 0.04221328
46.2 Pinarbasi_HG
34.4 Netherlands_Mesolithic
9.8 Ukraine_Mesolithic
6.8 Iran_N
2.4 African_Nigerian
0.4 Nganasan

Target: brother_scaled
Distance: 4.0797% / 0.04079737
47.8 Pinarbasi_HG
33.2 Netherlands_Mesolithic
9.4 Ukraine_Mesolithic
7.6 Iran_N
2.0 African_Nigerian

Distance to: Gallop_scaled
0.13625853 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.16083152 Pinarbasi_HG
0.25754191 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.31018101 Iran_N
0.60819161 East_Asian
0.62196628 Nganasan
0.75384503 African_Nigerian
0.80998283 Oceanian_Papuan

tk'es

09-11-2024, 08:43 PM

Target: tk'es_scaled
Distance: 9.6618% / 0.09661829
43.6 Iran_N
31.6 Pinarbasi_HG
11.2 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
9.8 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
2.6 Nganasan
1.2 East_Asian

Target: tk'es_scaled
Distance: 9.6949% / 0.09694937 | ADC: 0.25x RC
43.6 Iran_N
26.8 Pinarbasi_HG
25.4 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
4.2 Nganasan

Target: tk'es_scaled
Distance: 10.0007% / 0.10000707 | ADC: 0.5x RC
46.4 Iran_N
27.8 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
25.8 Pinarbasi_HG

Distance to: tk'es_scaled
0.20733686 Iran_N
0.23111176 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.23175865 Pinarbasi_HG
0.31810428 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.57216536 East_Asian
0.58926687 Nganasan
0.75287231 African_Nigerian
0.79587711 Oceanian_Papuan

EasternLusitanian

09-11-2024, 08:55 PM

Target: MV_scaled
Distance: 0.0452% / 0.04520154
52.0 Pinarbasi_HG
19.7 Netherlands_Mesolithic
15.4 Ukraine_Mesolithic
10.9 Iran_N
1.8 African_Nigerian
0.2 Nganasan

Distance to: MV_scaled
0.14775704 Pinarbasi_HG
0.15722158 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.27464557 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.29911072 Iran_N
0.61095067 East_Asian
0.62325862 Nganasan
0.74860220 African_Nigerian
0.80290150 Oceanian_Papuan

Back to herding the reindeers i guess

ScandinavianCelt

09-11-2024, 09:52 PM

Athalafuns

09-11-2024, 09:55 PM

Target: RNB27
Distance: 4.3569% / 0.04356897
43.8 Pinarbasi_HG
34.0 Netherlands_Mesolithic
10.6 Ukraine_Mesolithic
9.8 Iran_N
1.2 African_Nigerian
0.6 Nganasan

Distance to: RNB27
0.13731030 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.16332587 Pinarbasi_HG
0.25603282 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.30373043 Iran_N
0.60883690 East_Asian
0.62105974 Nganasan
0.75366973 African_Nigerian
0.81297514 Oceanian_Papuan

cass

09-11-2024, 11:47 PM

Target: cass
Distance: 6.0591% / 0.06059127
37.2 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
31.8 Pinarbasi_HG
20.0 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
11.0 Iran_N

Distance to: cass
0.09765514 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.19614944 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.22939283 Pinarbasi_HG
0.31741134 Iran_N
0.60666713 East_Asian
0.61673237 Nganasan
0.77742033 African_Nigerian
0.81173564 Oceanian_Papuan

It must be a drift effect

Target: cass
Distance: 6.4092% / 0.06409177 | ADC: 0.25x
59.6 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
19.4 Pinarbasi_HG
10.8 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
10.2 Iran_N

Upsilander

09-12-2024, 01:53 AM

I used .25x

Target: SC_Merged_Scaled
Distance: 6.4161% / 0.06416115 | ADC: 0.25x RC
66.0 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
18.2 Pinarbasi_HG
12.0 Iran_N
3.8 Amerindian_North

Target: SC_Official_AveragedG25_Scaled
Distance: 6.4851% / 0.06485135 | ADC: 0.25x RC
66.8 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
18.0 Pinarbasi_HG
12.2 Iran_N
3.0 Amerindian_North
--------------------------------

no ADC:

Target: SC_Merged_Scaled
Distance: 6.3780% / 0.06378007
50.0 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
23.0 Pinarbasi_HG
12.4 Iran_N
11.8 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
2.8 Amerindian_North

Target: SC_Official_AveragedG25_Scaled
Distance: 6.2366% / 0.06236646
29.6 Pinarbasi_HG
28.2 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
28.0 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
13.2 Iran_N
1.0 Amerindian_North

Do you have confirmed Amerindian? I noticed it was messing the results for samples in the old world that shouldn't have some. Probably capturing something AG or MA1.

This is of course very experimental altogether but not so different in distances than the standard model for me, or alternative ones, despite the fact it has no Yamnaya or more ancient WHG. It just gets worse as you go east like for most calculators i reckon.

Fabricius

09-12-2024, 01:59 AM

Target: Fabricius_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 3.6207% / 0.03620694
45.2 Pinarbasi_HG
19.6 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
17.0 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
10.6 Iran_N
7.2 African_Nigerian
0.4 East_Asian

Distance to: Fabricius_simulated_g25_scaled
0.15388199 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.17413850 Pinarbasi_HG
0.26271886 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.28835463 Iran_N
0.59512390 East_Asian
0.61092564 Nganasan
0.70563317 African_Nigerian
0.79567452 Oceanian_Papuan

Upsilander

09-12-2024, 02:05 AM

Danjojo

09-12-2024, 02:40 AM

Target: DanjojoG25sim
Distance: 0.0541% / 0.05412784
36.6 Pinarbasi_HG
36.5 Ukraine_Mesolithic
16.3 Netherlands_Mesolithic
10.6 Iran_N

Distance to: DanjojoG25sim
0.10197442 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.20647204 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.21478730 Pinarbasi_HG
0.31437958 Iran_N
0.58880056 Amerindian_North
0.60562807 East_Asian
0.61498685 Nganasan
0.67380658 Amerindian_South
0.77580382 African_Nigerian
0.80915693 Oceanian_Papuan

Fabricius

09-12-2024, 02:41 AM

You can use alternatively the bonus Amerindian samples of the op to see if it picks up something. Just a suggestion as i don't see them in your distance list.

Target: Fabricius_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 3.5808% / 0.03580774
43.8 Pinarbasi_HG
22.0 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
15.6 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
10.2 Iran_N
7.2 African_Nigerian
1.2 Amerindian_North

Distance to: Fabricius_simulated_g25_scaled
0.15388199 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.17413850 Pinarbasi_HG
0.26271886 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.28835463 Iran_N
0.58664821 Amerindian_North
0.59512390 East_Asian
0.61092564 Nganasan
0.67091753 Amerindian_South
0.70563317 African_Nigerian
0.79567452 Oceanian_Papuan

North Amerindian instead of South Amerindian. I believe it has more to do with a hyperborean party of Skando-balt-fino-ugrics with Eskimos than a remnant of Colonial Brazil.

vader

09-12-2024, 03:23 AM

Target: Algarvio_scaled
Distance: 3.6251% / 0.03625097
46.2 Pinarbasi_HG
35.0 Netherlands_Mesolithic
7.8 Iran_N
6.6 Ukraine_Mesolithic
2.4 African_Nigerian
1.0 Amerindian_North
1.0 East_Asian

Distance to: Algarvio_scaled
0.14576849 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.15270757 Pinarbasi_HG
0.26499404 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.30362960 Iran_N
0.59671137 Amerindian_North
0.60101235 East_Asian
0.61827685 Nganasan
0.68059084 Amerindian_South
0.74557931 African_Nigerian
0.80512897 Oceanian_Papuan

Target: Wife_scaled
Distance: 2.4593% / 0.02459320
47.4 Amerindian_South
23.4 Pinarbasi_HG
17.0 Netherlands_Mesolithic
5.6 Iran_N
3.8 African_Nigerian
2.8 Amerindian_North

Distance to: Wife_scaled
0.27823672 Amerindian_North
0.34575593 Amerindian_South
0.36742366 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.38110371 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.39017898 Iran_N
0.41079860 Pinarbasi_HG
0.46038946 East_Asian
0.47742791 Nganasan
0.74853129 African_Nigerian
0.76459398 Oceanian_Papuan

Petalpusher

09-12-2024, 07:56 AM

Target: Petalpusher
Distance: 5.1663% / 0.05166270
46.0 Netherlands_Mesolithic
38.1 Pinarbasi_HG
11.2 Ukraine_Mesolithic
4.7 Iran_N

Distance to: Petalpusher
0.11008567 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.19267029 Pinarbasi_HG
0.22932177 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.33184966 Iran_N
0.63295182 East_Asian
0.64204111 Nganasan
0.79156345 African_Nigerian
0.82783363 Oceanian_Papuan

cass

09-12-2024, 09:50 AM

Alternate model with West and East mesolithics of the same time (c. 6870 BC) + the regulars:

Out of curiosity, what collection does this sample come from??

Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866,0.12862,0.133034,0 .093526,0.090763,0.075091,0.025379,0.012691,0.0149 99,0.024543,0.000182,-0.003573,-0.000599,0.000743,0.002615,0.032301,0.021082,-0.007302,0.010388,0.002137,0.016258,0.032817,0.013 973,-0.01023,-0.044705,0.007903

Distance to: Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.12761092 Ukraine_Eneolithic:Ukraine_Eneolithic
0.13834752 Ukraine_N
0.14877088 Estonia_EMN_Narva
0.15620093 Belgium_UP_Magdalenian_udg
0.15697124 Sweden_Ansarve_Megalithic.SG
0.15865749 Italy_South_HG_Ostuni1
0.15915304 Norway_Mesolithic.SG
0.16012645 Czech_N_GlobularAmphora
0.16176397 Poland_GlobularAmphora.SG
0.16183998 France_EN
0.16198921 Norway_N_HG.SG
0.16281417 Romania_IronGates_Mesolithic
0.16324571 Poland_Koszyce_GlobularAmphora.SG
0.16347998 Sweden_Motala_HG
0.16439609 Poland_Ksiaznice_GlobularAmphora.SG
0.16479988 Ukraine_GlobularAmphora
0.16783700 Poland_GlobularAmphora
0.16873083 Hungary_EN_HG_Koros
0.17150318 Sweden_MN_TRB
0.17150318 Sweden_MN_TRB
0.17192359 Romania_PesteraMuierii_EUP
0.17319547 Sweden_MN_TRB.SG
0.17319547 Sweden_MN_TRB.SG
0.17750389 Czech_N_Jordanow
0.17772209 Ukraine_Eneolithic:Ukraine_Eneolithic_Trypillia

Balboa

09-12-2024, 10:19 AM

Target: Balboa_maternal
Distance: 2.8722% / 0.02872213
75.6 Pinarbasi_HG
24.2 Netherlands_Mesolithic
0.2 East_Asian

Target: Balboa_paternal
Distance: 3.5428% / 0.03542789
62.0 Pinarbasi_HG
21.8 Iran_N
16.2 Ukraine_Mesolithic

Target: Balboa
Distance: 2.0591% / 0.02059074
66.8 Pinarbasi_HG
21.2 Netherlands_Mesolithic
10.6 Iran_N
1.4 Ukraine_Mesolithic

Distance to: Balboa_maternal
0.07322113 Pinarbasi_HG
0.21018220 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.33705896 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.34571113 Iran_N
0.63794030 East_Asian
0.65664747 Nganasan
0.78017116 African_Nigerian
0.82961073 Oceanian_Papuan

Distance to: Balboa_paternal
0.12464540 Pinarbasi_HG
0.20089442 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.26977850 Iran_N
0.31670568 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.61315027 East_Asian
0.63075252 Nganasan
0.75890129 African_Nigerian
0.81089233 Oceanian_Papuan

Distance to: Balboa
0.08853496 Pinarbasi_HG
0.20173244 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.30789719 Iran_N
0.32586840 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.62934129 East_Asian
0.64686791 Nganasan
0.76996017 African_Nigerian
0.82356428 Oceanian_Papuan

Upsilander

09-12-2024, 10:34 AM

Out of curiosity, what collection does this sample come from??

Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866,0.12862,0.133034,0 .093526,0.090763,0.075091,0.025379,0.012691,0.0149 99,0.024543,0.000182,-0.003573,-0.000599,0.000743,0.002615,0.032301,0.021082,-0.007302,0.010388,0.002137,0.016258,0.032817,0.013 973,-0.01023,-0.044705,0.007903

Distance to: Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.12761092 Ukraine_Eneolithic:Ukraine_Eneolithic
0.13834752 Ukraine_N
0.14877088 Estonia_EMN_Narva
0.15620093 Belgium_UP_Magdalenian_udg
0.15697124 Sweden_Ansarve_Megalithic.SG
0.15865749 Italy_South_HG_Ostuni1
0.15915304 Norway_Mesolithic.SG
0.16012645 Czech_N_GlobularAmphora
0.16176397 Poland_GlobularAmphora.SG
0.16183998 France_EN
0.16198921 Norway_N_HG.SG
0.16281417 Romania_IronGates_Mesolithic
0.16324571 Poland_Koszyce_GlobularAmphora.SG
0.16347998 Sweden_Motala_HG
0.16439609 Poland_Ksiaznice_GlobularAmphora.SG
0.16479988 Ukraine_GlobularAmphora
0.16783700 Poland_GlobularAmphora
0.16873083 Hungary_EN_HG_Koros
0.17150318 Sweden_MN_TRB
0.17150318 Sweden_MN_TRB
0.17192359 Romania_PesteraMuierii_EUP
0.17319547 Sweden_MN_TRB.SG
0.17319547 Sweden_MN_TRB.SG
0.17750389 Czech_N_Jordanow
0.17772209 Ukraine_Eneolithic:Ukraine_Eneolithic_Trypillia

It's of an ancient G25 collection but i don't remember which one. It is Netherlands-Doggerland mesolithic that i shorthened like Ukraine mesolithic to avoid the silly smileys. I tried several and it was the one producing the best distances.

Jased

09-12-2024, 10:40 AM

Target: Hasien_scaled
Distance: 3.1307% / 0.03130733 | R5P
39.2 Amerindian_South
26.4 Pinarbasi_HG
23.4 Netherlands_Mesolithic
7.4 Iran_N
3.6 African_Nigerian

Upsilander

09-12-2024, 10:42 AM

Target: Hasien_scaled
Distance: 3.1307% / 0.03130733 | R5P
39.2 Amerindian_South
26.4 Pinarbasi_HG
23.4 Netherlands_Mesolithic
7.4 Iran_N
3.6 African_Nigerian

Pretty much what you should get i think.

Jased

09-12-2024, 10:44 AM

Pretty much what you should get i think.

Yeah, but I think the European part Isn't to northern?

Upsilander

09-12-2024, 10:51 AM

Yeah, but I think the European part Isn't to northern?

It's late mesolithic so country label don't matter much, was just experimental to take 2 meso of almost the same age west and east. But for you it produces a very decent distance i would say considering.

cass

09-12-2024, 11:26 AM

It's of an ancient G25 collection but i don't remember which one. It is Netherlands-Doggerland mesolithic that i shorthened like Ukraine mesolithic to avoid the silly smileys. I tried several and it was the one producing the best distances.

This is quite important. It looks completely different from the parallel adjacent mesolithic samples. Could you please find the source?

Target: Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
Distance: 4.5925% / 0.04592537
47.8 Latvia_HG.SG
31.6 Turkey_Epipaleolithic
9.8 Russia_Samara_HG
9.0 GEO_CHG
1.8 IRN_HotuIIIb_Meso

Target: Germany_Mesolithic:BDB001
Distance: 3.1825% / 0.03182520
41.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
28.4 LUX_Loschbour
22.0 Latvia_HG.SG
8.6 Italy_Tagliente_LPaleolithic

Target: France_NouvelleAquitaine_Mesolithic.SG:PER503.SG
Distance: 3.8692% / 0.03869221
44.0 LUX_Loschbour
38.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
17.8 Italy_Tagliente_LPaleolithic

Upsilander

09-12-2024, 11:49 AM

This is quite important. It looks completely different from the parallel adjacent mesolithic samples. Could you please find the source?

Target: Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
Distance: 4.5925% / 0.04592537
47.8 Latvia_HG.SG
31.6 Turkey_Epipaleolithic
9.8 Russia_Samara_HG
9.0 GEO_CHG
1.8 IRN_HotuIIIb_Meso

Target: Germany_Mesolithic:BDB001
Distance: 3.1825% / 0.03182520
41.0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
28.4 LUX_Loschbour
22.0 Latvia_HG.SG
8.6 Italy_Tagliente_LPaleolithic

Target: France_NouvelleAquitaine_Mesolithic.SG:PER503.SG
Distance: 3.8692% / 0.03869221
44.0 LUX_Loschbour
38.2 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
17.8 Italy_Tagliente_LPaleolithic

Because it's more recent than Loschbour, Villabruna etc by thousands of years, and transitional with neolithic in the west already at the exact same point in time (about 6870 BC)

They are fairly similar in West Eurasianess, Ukraine meso is just a tad more Amerindian and a tad less African. That's certainly not "completely different".

Distance to: Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.60770431 Amerindian_Native
0.62643442 East_Asian
0.78530830 African_Nigerian
0.81230853 Oceanian_Papuan

Distance to: Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.58416051 Amerindian_Native
0.63344456 East_Asian
0.80648252 African_Nigerian
0.81628468 Oceanian_Papuan

cass

09-12-2024, 11:54 AM

Because it's more recent than Loschbour, Villabruna etc by thousands of years, and transitional with neolithic in the west already at the exact same point in time (about 6870 BC)

They are fairly similar in West Eurasianess, Ukraine meso is just a tad more Amerindian and a tad less African. That's certainly not "completely different".

Distance to: Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.60770431 Amerindian_Native
0.62643442 East_Asian
0.78530830 African_Nigerian
0.81230853 Oceanian_Papuan

Distance to: Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.58416051 Amerindian_Native
0.63344456 East_Asian
0.80648252 African_Nigerian
0.81628468 Oceanian_Papuan

But could you please find the source? It looks too unusual, as if it was much later.

Upsilander

09-12-2024, 12:07 PM

But could you please find the source? It looks too unusual, as if it was much later.

I have plenty of txt files with samples like all of us. It's from the same website with Mariopoulos collections i guess. Ukraine meso is from the same file:

Ukraine_Mesolithic:I5876__BC_6882,0.126344,0.09139 8,0.1467,0.183465,0.066166,0.043228,0.003055,0.009 923,0.02352,-0.054124,-0.000162,-0.020532,0.033151,-0.015689,0.031487,0.03633,0.005998,0.000887,0.0011 31,0.033641,0.039555,0.014715,-0.010106,-0.053261,0.005987
Netherlands_Doggerland_Meso:DOG009__BC_6866,0.1286 2,0.133034,0.093526,0.090763,0.075091,0.025379,0.0 12691,0.014999,0.024543,0.000182,-0.003573,-0.000599,0.000743,0.002615,0.032301,0.021082,-0.007302,0.010388,0.002137,0.016258,0.032817,0.013 973,-0.01023,-0.044705,0.007903

I think we assume Neolithic happened a bit later but it was likely very progressive and started much earlier than when we find fully neolithic people that replaced the WHG almost completely.

Upsilander

09-12-2024, 12:14 PM

By the way i made a tutorial to avoid the smileys but nobody uses it...

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?387668-(Tutorial)-How-to-not-have-smiley-faces-in-your-populations-list

cass

09-12-2024, 01:22 PM

I have plenty of txt files with samples like all of us. It's from the same website with Mariopoulos collections i guess. Ukraine meso is from the same file:

Ukraine_Mesolithic:I5876__BC_6882,0.126344,0.09139 8,0.1467,0.183465,0.066166,0.043228,0.003055,0.009 923,0.02352,-0.054124,-0.000162,-0.020532,0.033151,-0.015689,0.031487,0.03633,0.005998,0.000887,0.0011 31,0.033641,0.039555,0.014715,-0.010106,-0.053261,0.005987
Netherlands_Doggerland_Meso:DOG009__BC_6866,0.1286 2,0.133034,0.093526,0.090763,0.075091,0.025379,0.0 12691,0.014999,0.024543,0.000182,-0.003573,-0.000599,0.000743,0.002615,0.032301,0.021082,-0.007302,0.010388,0.002137,0.016258,0.032817,0.013 973,-0.01023,-0.044705,0.007903

I think we assume Neolithic happened a bit later but it was likely very progressive and started much earlier than when we find fully neolithic people that replaced the WHG almost completely.

https://www.exploreyourdna.com/listes.aspx
Unfortunately, this sample is not here.

If the dating is true, the result is extremely interesting.

Distance to: Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.15642667 Europe_(late)Magdalenian_10KYA:BEL_GoyetQ2
0.16113120 Pontic_Caspian_Steppe(west)_10KYA:UKR_Meso_I1819_R 1a
0.16254150 Scandinavia_10KYA:SWE_Meso_SF12
0.16836964 Pontic_Caspian_Steppe(west)_10KYA:UKR_Meso_I1763_I 2a1
0.17059134 Europe_(late)Magdalenian_10KYA:Iberia_ElMiron
0.17211606 Scandinavia_10KYA:SWE_Meso_ble008
0.17357842 East_Baltic_Coast_10KYA:Baltic_LVA_HG_I4632
0.17476842 Southeast_Europe_10KYA:ROU_Iron_Gates_HG_I4582
0.17551718 Central_Europe_10KYA:Cotofeni_HG_Simulated
0.17931069 Steppe_Proto_Yamnaya:Yamnaya_RUS_Kalmykia_RISE550
0.18211987 Southwest_Europe_10KYA:Iberia_Southeast_Meso
0.18643168 Southeast_Europe_10KYA:SRB_Iron_Gates_HG_I4872
0.18801515 Central_Europe_10KYA:Mako_HG_Simulated
0.18821852 Steppe_Proto_Yamnaya:Yamnaya_RUS_Samara_average
0.19084282 Steppe_Proto_Yamnaya:Yamnaya_UKR_I2105
0.19404065 Steppe_Proto_Yamnaya:Yamnaya_RUS_Caucasus_ZO2002
0.19533090 East_Baltic_Coast_10KYA:Baltic_LVA_HG_I4432
0.19923299 Central_Europe_10KYA:Mezocsat_HG_Simulated
0.20003074 South_Baltic_Coast_10KYA:LTU_Meso_Spiginas4
0.20360563 South_Baltic_Coast_10KYA:POL_BKG_N_o1_N22
0.20414049 Pontic_Caspian_Steppe(east)_10KYA:RUS_Sidelkino_HG
0.20763768 Northeast_Europe_10KYA:Veretye_Meso_PES001
0.21185077 Southwest_Europe_10KYA:Iberia_Northwest_Meso_Chan
0.21680758 Pontic_Caspian_Steppe(east)_10KYA:RUS_Samara_HG_R1 b
0.22165186 Central_Europe_10KYA:Vatya_HG_Simulated

cass

09-12-2024, 02:15 PM

Upsilander

09-12-2024, 02:21 PM

Netherlands_Mesolithic_Doggerland,0.12520567,0.113 73933,0.197737,0.19261667,0.15767067,0.064888333,0 .018487667,0.036537,0.091081333,0.015308,-0.016509333,-0.015536,0.015956,-0.0013303333,0.059943333,0.061344667,-0.0010426667,0.0062076667,-0.014036333,0.058278,0.107976,0.017558667,-0.047943,-0.172434,0.018720667
Netherlands_Mesolithic_Doggerland_(low_res),0.1217 91,0.111708,0.179509,0.179266,0.151105,0.056336,0. 001175,0.031383,0.092445,-0.000547,-0.019487,-0.007343,0.012785,-0.004954,0.051031,0.062052,-0.001565,0.013936,-0.003897,0.053526,0.102569,-0.00371,-0.04326,-0.144599,0.021794

The only samples with this name I found in "G25-All Valentine's Day Averages".

Must be a different one because using the ones above, it only picks up ukraine meso (and worse distance)

Target: Upsilander_Scaled
Distance: 6.2400% / 0.06239978
47.4 Ukraine_Mesolithic
45.8 Pinarbasi_HG
6.8 Iran_N

Also more distant

Distance to: Upsilander_Scaled
0.20949474 Pinarbasi_HG
0.21236454 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.31396557 Netherlands_Mesolithic_Doggerland_(low_res)
0.32719822 Iran_N
0.34802099 Netherlands_Mesolithic_Doggerland
0.62188645 East_Asian
0.62736986 Nganasan
0.78990532 African_Nigerian
0.82243844 Oceanian_Papuan

I didn't have the coverage so it's possible it's low coverage too. Worth looking into it for a V2, although it seems like it could decipher west and east decently, that's what i thought was interesting with these two.

cass

09-12-2024, 02:25 PM

Must be a different one because using the ones above, it only picks up ukraine meso (and worse distance)

Target: Upsilander_Scaled
Distance: 6.2400% / 0.06239978
47.4 Ukraine_Mesolithic
45.8 Pinarbasi_HG
6.8 Iran_N

Also more distant

Distance to: Upsilander_Scaled
0.20949474 Pinarbasi_HG
0.21236454 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.31396557 Netherlands_Mesolithic_Doggerland_(low_res)
0.32719822 Iran_N
0.34802099 Netherlands_Mesolithic_Doggerland
0.62188645 East_Asian
0.62736986 Nganasan
0.78990532 African_Nigerian
0.82243844 Oceanian_Papuan

I didn't have the coverage so it's possible it's low coverage too. Worth looking into it for a V2, although it seems like it could decipher west and east decently, that's what i thought was interesting with these two.

That's why I think it's a weird sample. Much more steppe than it should be.

gixajo

09-12-2024, 02:36 PM

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 3.9286% / 0.03928559
50.8 Netherlands_Mesolithic
42.0 Pinarbasi_HG
6.8 Iran_N
0.4 East_Asian

celticdragongod

09-12-2024, 11:48 PM

Distance to: CDG_scaled
0.10645586 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.21105589 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.22212460 Pinarbasi_HG
0.32030281 Iran_N
0.61174939 East_Asian
0.61820648 Nganasan
0.77937887 African_Nigerian
0.81367517 Oceanian_Papuan

Target: CDG_scaled
Distance: 7.1815% / 0.07181535
46.4 Netherlands_Mesolithic
26.8 Pinarbasi_HG
16.4 Ukraine_Mesolithic
9.8 Iran_N
0.6 Nganasan

gixajo

09-13-2024, 01:16 AM

But could you please find the source? It looks too unusual, as if it was much later.

I haven´t checked them, but they are probably here: Ajeje´s ancient (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/0q39lrsynq7prjc7mm8gq/G25-Ancients.txt?rlkey=33i5tycf3nd6glv1w7z6dleco&e=4&dl=0)

unmoggable

09-13-2024, 05:26 PM

Target: unmoggable
Distance: 6.0784% / 0.06078388
39.4 Netherlands_Mesolithic
29.4 Pinarbasi_HG
18.4 Ukraine_Mesolithic
12.8 Iran_N

0.10896572 Netherlands_Mesolithic:.BC_6866
0.21221892 Pinarbasi_HG
0.21698053 Ukraine_Mesolithic:.BC_6882
0.30736035 Iran_N
0.60814655 East_Asian
0.61836564 Nganasan
0.77305114 African_Nigerian
0.80941744 Oceanian_Papuan