Evidence that Romans survived in Britain into the Saxon period

[Peterski]

Sample S3056 from Ribblesdale, dated to ca. 650 AD:

Global25:


England_Saxon_Yorkshire:S3056__AD_720__Cov_35.86%, 0.117238,0.129988,0.030547,-0.00646,0.037545,-0.004462,-0.00235,0.004615,0.005522,0.03827,0.011205,0.01019 1,-0.015312,-0.007019,0.012351,0.009149,0.009909,-0.00228,0.013701,-0.001126,0.003993,0.003462,-0.004437,0.00735,0.000838

Eurogenes K36:

Sample S3056.txt
Amerindian 0
Arabian 0.04
Armenian 3.01
Basque 5.9
Central African 0
Central Euro 9.18
East African 0
East Asian 0
East Balkan 0.32
East Central Asian 0
East Central Euro 2.61
East Med 6.29
Eastern Euro 0
Fennoscandian 10.2
French 8.41
Iberian 15.69
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 24.84
Malayan 2.92
Near Eastern 0.42
North African 0
North Atlantic 3.89
North Caucasian 0
North Sea 0
Northeast African 0
Oceanian 0
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South Asian 0
South Central Asian 0
South Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 0
West African 1.19
West Caucasian 0
West Med 5.09

[Peterski]

What do you think about this sample?

[J. Ketch]

What do you think about this sample?
What is its closest modern population?

If they found a half-African woman in Anglo-Saxon England I guess it shouldn't be that surprising to find a Southern European. If anything it's surprising that there isn't more apparent Roman influence.

[Peterski]

What is its closest modern population?

When using K36 the closest modern regions are ITA_Veneto, ITA_Liguria and ITA_Trentino.

When using G25 it looks like this:

Distance to: England_Saxon_Yorkshire:S3056__AD_720__Cov_35.86%
0.03680772 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03730473 Swiss_Italian
0.03734145 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03748465 Spanish_Girona
0.03766795 French_Provence
0.03802482 Italian_Trentino_Alto_Adige
0.03824379 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03827717 Spanish_Baleares
0.03834140 Italian_Veneto
0.03889012 Spanish_Penedes
(...)

[Johnson Reed]

Target: England_Saxon_Yorkshire:S3056__AD_720__Cov_35.86%
Distance: 3.5342% / 0.03534214 | ADC: 0.25x RC
57.0 TUR_Barcin_N
32.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
7.6 WHG
2.0 Han
0.6 Jarawa

WTF part Chinese lol.


What is its closest modern population?

Distance to: England_Saxon_Yorkshire:S3056__AD_720__Cov_35.86%
0.03730473 Swiss_Italian
0.03734145 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03748465 Spanish_Girona
0.03766795 French_Provence
0.03824379 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03827717 Spanish_Baleares
0.03889012 Spanish_Penedes
0.03959167 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.04054647 Spanish_Lleida
0.04088795 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.04101463 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.04106688 Spanish_Alacant
0.04114071 Swiss_French
0.04146154 Spanish_Castello
0.04184647 Spanish_Murcia
0.04194480 Spanish_Valencia
0.04198151 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.04233672 Portuguese
0.04255460 Spanish_Cataluna
0.04282411 Spanish_Menorca
0.04303099 Spanish_Aragon
0.04320213 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.04346495 French_Corsica
0.04448916 French_Auvergne
0.04458979 Spanish_Andalucia

Target: England_Saxon_Yorkshire:S3056__AD_720__Cov_35.86%
Distance: 2.7149% / 0.02714914 | R3P
78.2 Spanish_Girona
19.2 Greek_Cyclades_Tinos
2.6 Indonesian_Java



If they found a half-African woman in Anglo-Saxon England I guess it shouldn't be that surprising to find a Southern European. If anything it's surprising that there isn't more apparent Roman influence.

This is probably why the English are more southern than the Irish - minor Roman imput + more Norman.

[J. Ketch]

When using K36 the closest modern regions are ITA_Veneto, ITA_Liguria and ITA_Trentino.

When using G25 it looks like this:

Distance to: England_Saxon_Yorkshire:S3056__AD_720__Cov_35.86%
0.03680772 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03730473 Swiss_Italian
0.03734145 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03748465 Spanish_Girona
0.03766795 French_Provence
0.03802482 Italian_Trentino_Alto_Adige
0.03824379 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03827717 Spanish_Baleares
0.03834140 Italian_Veneto
0.03889012 Spanish_Penedes
(...)
720 is over 300 years after the Romans left Britain, that's a long time of mixing between Southern Europeans in Britain if they're a Roman survivor, kind of unbelievable tbh. Maybe more likely to be a recent immigrant, related to the France IA population.

[J. Ketch]

Target: England_Saxon_Yorkshire:S3056__AD_720__Cov_35.86%
Distance: 3.5342% / 0.03534214 | ADC: 0.25x RC
57.0 TUR_Barcin_N
32.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
7.6 WHG
2.0 Han
0.6 Jarawa

WTF part Chinese lol.
That is surely just noise because it's a low coverage sample.



Distance to: England_Saxon_Yorkshire:S3056__AD_720__Cov_35.86%
0.03730473 Swiss_Italian
0.03734145 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03748465 Spanish_Girona
0.03766795 French_Provence
0.03824379 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03827717 Spanish_Baleares
0.03889012 Spanish_Penedes
0.03959167 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.04054647 Spanish_Lleida
0.04088795 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.04101463 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.04106688 Spanish_Alacant
0.04114071 Swiss_French
0.04146154 Spanish_Castello
0.04184647 Spanish_Murcia
0.04194480 Spanish_Valencia
0.04198151 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.04233672 Portuguese
0.04255460 Spanish_Cataluna
0.04282411 Spanish_Menorca
0.04303099 Spanish_Aragon
0.04320213 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.04346495 French_Corsica
0.04448916 French_Auvergne
0.04458979 Spanish_Andalucia

Target: England_Saxon_Yorkshire:S3056__AD_720__Cov_35.86%
Distance: 2.7149% / 0.02714914 | R3P
78.2 Spanish_Girona
19.2 Greek_Cyclades_Tinos
2.6 Indonesian_Java




This is probably why the English are more southern than the Irish - minor Roman imput + more Norman.
It would be part of it but the southern shift in the English compared to the Irish seems to mainly come from French-like admixture in the Middle Ages, and how much we can attribute that to 'Normans' is debatable. Southern Britain was already more Southern/EEF than Ireland in the Iron Age too.

[Johnson Reed]

720 is over 300 years after the Romans left Britain, that's a long time of mixing between Southern Europeans in Britain if they're a Roman survivor, kind of unbelievable tbh. Maybe more likely to be a recent immigrant, related to the France IA population.

Couldn't it be someone who is half-Roman, half-British? Irish/South Italian mixed often cluster with North Italians, so it's possible.

[J. Ketch]

Couldn't it be someone who is half-Roman, half-British? Irish/South Italian mixed often cluster with North Italians, so it's possible.
That's still centuries of fully Southern European families existing in post-Roman Britain, I mean theoretically possible but hard to imagine. The various groups in Early Medieval England evidently mixed a lot (giving rise to the Celto-Germanic English of today), and the Romano-Britons as a culture seem to have disappeared without a trace by the 6th century.

[Johnson Reed]

That's still centuries of fully Southern European families existing in post-Roman Britain, I mean theoretically possible but hard to imagine. The various groups in Early Medieval England evidently mixed a lot (giving rise to the Celto-Germanic English of today), and the Romano-Britons as a culture seem to have disappeared without a trace by the 6th century.

Perhaps this person was multigenerationally mixed like Balkan Slavs or Swiss Germans?