Slavic tribes: ancestry

[Russki]

Ilmen Slovenians, Vyatichi: Slavic + Finnic

Krivichi, Dregowichs, Radimichs: Slavic + Baltic

Draguvites, Seven Slavic tribes in Bulgaria: Slavic + Thracian

Obodrites, Veleti, Sorbs, Czechs, Silesians: Slavic + Celtic + Germanic

Feel free to add further information.


https://i.imgur.com/rOe1QqV.png

[rothaer]

https://i.imgur.com/kE1O0PB.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/Od6SIbL.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/nrccYYq.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/b0FHl2S.png

[rothaer]

https://i.imgur.com/i2QjuAw.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/SqzDSw0.jpeg

[Dušan]

https://i.imgur.com/Suv7yiB.jpeg

[Dušan]

https://i.imgur.com/wfwI3im.jpeg

[Russki]

https://i.imgur.com/nrccYYq.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/wfwI3im.jpeg


Sorbs, Czechs, Moravians, Polans/Poles, Silesians, Serbs, Croats as identities survived to the modern day.

Many tribes became assimilated by Greeks, Albanians, Romanians/Moldovans, Hungarians, Germans/Austrians.

Masovians, Vistulans, and several smaller tribes became absorbed by Polans/Poles, while Pomeranians now go by the name "Kashubians".

Eastern Polans, Uliches, Tivertsi, (White) Croats, Volhynians, Drevlians, Severians, Dregovichs, Radimichs, Krivichs, Vyatichs and Ilmen Slovenes had their identities replaces by a Russian identity. Russian megagroup split into 4 groups, roughly along the lines of their pre-Slavic ancestry/substrate.

[rothaer]

Sorbs, Czechs, Moravians, Polans/Poles, Silesians, Serbs, Croats as identities survived to the modern day.

Many tribes became assimilated by Greeks, Albanians, Romanians/Moldovans, Hungarians, Germans/Austrians.

Masovians, Vistulans, and several smaller tribes became absorbed by Polans/Poles, while Pomeranians now go by the name "Kashubians".

Eastern Polans, Uliches, Tivertsi, (White) Croats, Volhynians, Drevlians, Severians, Dregovichs, Radimichs, Krivichs, Vyatichs and Ilmen Slovenes had their identities replaces by a Russian identity. Russian megagroup split into 4 groups, roughly along the lines of their pre-Slavic ancestry/substrate.

As for the latter I've just three in mind: Russians, White Russians and Red Russians (Ukrainians). Or do you have Rusins as an own group or the Siberian colonists or the Cossacks?

[Radegast]

But that was the deepest past, now the future:

https://youtu.be/LIGyQT5PBVs?feature=shared

[Russki]

As for the latter I've just three in mind: Russians, White Russians and Red Russians (Ukrainians). Or do you have Rusins as an own group or the Siberian colonists or the Cossacks?


Rusyns, they have an ethnic consciousness regardless of the way the Ukrainian state treats them. Cossack is not an ethnicity, it's a barbaric way of life, and Russian colonists are still Russians.

[Peterski]

Silesians and Pomeranians were pretty much absorbed by Poles as well. According to the 2021 census there were only 12,846 Kashubians who did not consider themselves as Poles and only 211,178 Silesians who did not consider themselves as Poles. While the total number of people with Kashubian ancestry in Poland is 0.6 million and with Silesian ancestry up to 3 million.

=====

BTW Silesians were in fact several tribes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Silesia#Early_Medieval_Slavic_tribes

"Sources describing Silesia of the 9th and 10th centuries, such as the Bavarian Geographer (c. AD 845) or Thietmar's Chronicle, indicate that the area which later became known as Silesia,[13] was back then inhabited by several Lechitic tribes, known from written sources under their Latinised names. The Sleenzane (Slenzans; Ślężanie) lived in lands near modern Wrocław and along the Ślęza river, as well as near mount Ślęża. They probably numbered 60–75,000 people[14][15] and according to the Bavarian Geographer, they were divided into 15 civitates. The Opolini (Opolans; Opolanie) lived in lands near modern Opole, their population was perhaps 30–40,000[14] and comprised 20 civitates. The Dadodesani or Dedosize (Dyadosans; Dziadoszanie) lived in areas near modern Głogów, numbered probably 30,000 people,[14] as well as 20 civitates. The Golensizi (Golensizians; Golęszyce) dwelled near modern Racibórz, Cieszyn and Opawa - they consisted of five civitates. The Lupiglaa (Głubczyce) probably lived on the Głubczyce Plateau, near Głubczyce, and comprised 30 civitates. The Trebouane (Tryebovians; Trzebowianie), mentioned by the Prague Document (which describes the situation as of year 973 or earlier),[16] occupied areas near modern Legnica and could number some 25–30,000 individuals.[14] The Poborane (Bobrans; Bobrzanie) - mentioned by the same document - lived along the lower and middle course of the Bóbr river. The Psyovians (Psouane; Pszowianie) lived near Pszów, to the east of the Opolans and to the west of Kraków. At the turn of the 10th and 11th centuries (c. AD 1000), the total population of Silesia is estimated as around 250,000 people.[17][18]"

=====

Your map also doesn't show Lendians for some reason:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lendians

=====

Obodrites, Veleti and Sorbs can also be subdivided into smaller tribes:

https://i.imgur.com/qjUQFzq.png

[Peterski]

Cossack is not an ethnicity

Actually Cossacks were counted as a separate ethnicity in the 19th century.

For example Stanisław Plater in his 1825 book lists Cossacks as an ethnicity.

[Dušan]

As for the latter I've just three in mind: Russians, White Russians and Red Russians (Ukrainians). Or do you have Rusins as an own group or the Siberian colonists or the Cossacks?

As far as I know, they were known as Little Russians (Малороссы), not Red Russians.

This is from census 1897. showing European part of Russian Empire, showing percentages of all Russians, Big Russians, Little Russians and White Russians.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/East_Slavs_in_Russia_1897.JPG

[rothaer]

Silesians and Pomeranians were pretty much absorbed by Poles as well. According to the 2021 census there were only 12,846 Kashubians who did not consider themselves as Poles and only 211,178 Silesians who did not consider themselves as Poles. While the total number of people with Kashubian ancestry in Poland is 0.6 million and with Silesian ancestry up to 3 million.

The assimilation applies even more to Germans. Out of likely 2 million Kashub descendants (German Pomeranians), you have essentially zero that do not identify as Germans. And as for Silesians the same goes with abt. 4.5 million Silesians. :)

[Peterski]

The assimilation applies even more to Germans. Out of likely 2 million Kashub descendants (German Pomeranians), you have essentially zero that do not identify as Germans. And as for Silesians the same goes with 4.5 million Silesians.

They are only half-Kashubs though because they are heavily mixed with Western German settlers.

And the same applies to half-Silesians in Lower Silesia who are heavily mixed with West Germans.

So divide these numbers by 2.

[Dušan]

But that was the deepest past, now the future:

https://youtu.be/LIGyQT5PBVs?feature=shared

Are you sure?



A record number of foreign Jews have immigrated to Israel in 2022, the Jewish Agency nonprofit announced on Thursday, crediting its efforts to encourage Russian and Ukrainian Jews to make the move - called ‘Aliyah’ - to their religious homeland.

The vast majority hail from Russia (37,364) and Ukraine (14,680), with the number of Russian immigrants alone outnumbering the total figure for 2021 (28,600).


https://www.rt.com/news/568842-israel-record-immigrants-russia-ukraine/

[Kostek]

Do we have any DNA samples of White Croats? Kinda curious what modern ethnicity would be closest to them.

[Peterski]

Do we have any DNA samples of White Croats? Kinda curious what modern ethnicity would be closest to them.

There is one sample:


Slavs_White_Croats:UKR166,0.127482,0.111708,0.0701 44,0.053295,0.029852,0.020359,0.005405,0.015461,0. 00225,-0.019681,0.004384,-0.007044,0.023934,0.027662,-0.006107,-0.009414,-0.005085,-0.000507,-0.000377,0.001376,-0.000873,-0.000247,0.010599,-0.005784,0.003473

[Kostek]

There is one sample:


Slavs_White_Croats:UKR166,0.127482,0.111708,0.0701 44,0.053295,0.029852,0.020359,0.005405,0.015461,0. 00225,-0.019681,0.004384,-0.007044,0.023934,0.027662,-0.006107,-0.009414,-0.005085,-0.000507,-0.000377,0.001376,-0.000873,-0.000247,0.010599,-0.005784,0.003473

Interesting. Thanks!

[Radegast]

Me think:
Slavic language owners - Yugoslavic people (I2a)
Slavic language users - others

Like Angolans and Portuguese for example

[Vessna]

There is one sample:


Slavs_White_Croats:UKR166,0.127482,0.111708,0.0701 44,0.053295,0.029852,0.020359,0.005405,0.015461,0. 00225,-0.019681,0.004384,-0.007044,0.023934,0.027662,-0.006107,-0.009414,-0.005085,-0.000507,-0.000377,0.001376,-0.000873,-0.000247,0.010599,-0.005784,0.003473

Thanks for sharing. I get a small amount of Balkan on some calcs and on illustrative. I wonder if it’s from White Croats since my Balkan is always exclusively Croatian. I did mytrueancestry out of curiosity and it did show White Croats. Do you think it’s a possible explanation?

[Figaro]

Thanks for sharing. I get a small amount of Balkan on some calcs and on illustrative. I wonder if it’s from White Croats since my Balkan is always exclusively Croatian. I did mytrueancestry out of curiosity and it did show White Croats. Do you think it’s a possible explanation?

Similar story with my mother, cousin Vessna. When 23andMe first rolled out the predicted regions on AC, she got Croatia before that went away on the subsequent update..

[Peterski]

Russki,

Here you have G25 of some Poles from the area assigned to "Polans" in the map which you posted:


Polish_Wielkopolska:PL_WlkpSouth1,0.12862,0.137096 ,0.061471,0.053295,0.044316,0.018686,0.00799,0.009 692,0.001023,-0.017495,-0.002111,-0.004646,0.010852,0.016377,-0.006515,-0.012066,-0.009257,0.004054,0.000754,-0.005753,-0.004866,0.001237,0.002342,0.001205,-0.002155
Polish_Wielkopolska:PL_WlkpSouth2,0.130897,0.12897 2,0.069013,0.057817,0.043393,0.018686,0.012926,0.0 06231,0.001432,-0.02041,-0.002436,-0.009891,0.017245,0.018717,-0.004886,0.003447,0.002738,0,-0.000754,-0.007379,0.000749,-0.005317,0.004683,0.00482,-0.001437
Polish_Wielkopolska:PL_WlkpSouth4,0.135449,0.13405 ,0.067127,0.057817,0.044008,0.022869,0.008695,0.01 3615,0.002659,-0.017495,-0.003085,-0.001049,0.01442,0.021882,-0.00665,0.008221,0.00339,-0.002154,0.004902,5e-04,-0.003868,-0.006306,0.005546,0.002289,-0.002275
Polish_Wielkopolska:PL_WlkpNorth1,0.135449,0.14115 9,0.067505,0.060401,0.03139,0.026216,0.0094,0.0050 77,-0.002454,-0.015308,-0.009581,-0.008692,0.014866,0.017753,-0.00475,-0.000796,0.005085,-0.000127,-0.000503,0.003252,-0.006863,-0.00507,0.010106,0.004579,-0.001916
Polish_Wielkopolska:PL_WlkpNorth2,0.124067,0.12592 6,0.069767,0.059755,0.040007,0.023427,0.00893,0.00 9,0.007158,-0.024602,-0.003735,-0.006444,0.013082,0.017203,-0.012622,0.006099,-0.001434,-0.000633,0.004148,0.013006,-0.002496,-0.005564,0.008134,0.004699,-0.005149
Polish_Wielkopolska:PL_WlkpNorth3,0.133173,0.13506 5,0.06939,0.05814,0.027697,0.019243,0.00658,0.0066 92,-0.001841,-0.02041,-0.004872,-0.007793,0.014271,0.007707,-0.008415,0.017369,0.014864,0,0.002137,0.004877,-0.006364,-0.000618,0.011462,0.006145,-0.002036
Polish_Wielkopolska:PL_WlkpNorth4,0.136588,0.13709 6,0.073916,0.062662,0.032621,0.024542,0.006345,0.0 02538,-0.004704,-0.020775,0.001299,-0.005545,0.009217,0.010597,-0.002443,-0.003182,0.002608,-0.00152,0.000377,0.009379,-0.007612,0.000866,0.008134,0.008073,0.000359
Polish_Wielkopolska:PL_WlkpCentre1,0.133173,0.1401 43,0.065619,0.058463,0.033852,0.022869,0.006815,0. 009923,0.000409,-0.018041,-0.003897,-0.001798,0.010109,0.00867,-0.007465,-0.000133,0.002999,0.0019,-0.00088,-0.001251,-0.009982,-0.000742,0.006409,0.006145,-0.002874
Polish_Wielkopolska:PL_WlkpCentre2,0.135449,0.1421 74,0.065619,0.056848,0.036007,0.021475,0.004935,0. 006,0.005522,-0.01877,-0.004709,-0.005245,0.011744,0.011698,-0.005157,0.00053,0.002868,0.000887,-0.003897,-0.003252,-0.009358,-0.001978,0.007025,0.015785,-0.002634
Polish_Wielkopolska:PL_WlkpWest1,0.137726,0.13405, 0.07467,0.062339,0.046778,0.027052,0.009635,0.0092 3,-0.002863,-0.017677,-0.005846,-0.01109,0.007879,0.017478,-0.007329,0.005304,0.002738,0.003801,0.000126,0.001 626,0.00287,0.001731,0.00037,-0.005784,0.002515
Polish_Kuyavia:PL_Kuyavia1,0.125205,0.13405,0.0716 53,0.04845,0.039392,0.021753,0.00517,0.009461,0.00 3272,-0.014032,-0.010718,-0.006744,0.011298,0.018166,-0.002579,0.003713,0.000391,-0.00038,0.001885,-0.003877,-0.009608,0.001607,0.002218,0.000964,-0.005269
Polish_Pomerelia:PL_Kociewie1,0.126344,0.121864,0. 07203,0.058786,0.037545,0.023148,0.013866,0.004615 ,-0.000205,-0.018588,-0.004709,-0.004046,0.002973,0.010184,-0.003664,0.010607,0.022687,0.002027,0.005279,0.007 003,-0.003119,-0.00643,0.013064,0.00012,-0.001916

And for comparison some Poles from other regions, including Mazovians:


PL_Mazovia1,0.129758,0.125926,0.061471,0.071706,0. 040315,0.026216,0.010575,0.014999,-0.010226,-0.022597,-0.009581,-0.009442,0.016204,0.012111,-0.009772,-0.006762,0.008605,-0.000507,0.004274,0.00075,-0.003369,-0.009398,0.014913,0.003012,-0.005269
PL_Mazovia2,0.12862,0.138112,0.069767,0.061693,0.0 42469,0.027889,0.0094,0.006692,-0.001432,-0.022962,-0.00406,-0.01154,0.024678,0.030965,-0.015336,-0.011403,-0.010952,0.000253,0.003017,0.002001,-0.005241,-0.006183,0.000739,-0.007832,0.004191
PL_Malopolska1,0.129758,0.118817,0.069013,0.059755 ,0.035391,0.021475,0.01081,0.008077,0.002659,-0.017312,-0.002111,-0.007943,0.020218,0.009496,-0.010179,0.010475,0.020731,0.001267,0.001508,0.003 877,-0.004367,-0.007048,0.00949,-0.001325,-0.002994
PL_KresySouth1,0.12862,0.137096,0.066373,0.05814,0 .033237,0.028726,0.008225,0.010846,-0.003886,-0.020046,-0.002111,-0.010041,0.014271,0.020231,-0.011808,-0.002917,0.008996,0.002027,0.003268,-0.003377,-0.000749,-0.000618,0.004683,0.000241,0.002874