Should we revive Latin?

[HungAryan]

Latin was spoken by the Ancient Romans, who created the first and only Pan-European Empire that ever existed.
Also, Church Latin was the language of Western Christianity until the Protestant Reformation, thus, Latin was the official language of many countries in Europe. In Hungary, for example, Latin was the official language until 1844.

Latin lives in the form of Ecclesiastical Latin, used for laws and decrees issued by Hierarchs of the Catholic Church, and in the form of a sparse sprinkling of scientific or social articles written in it, as well as in numerous Latin clubs. Latin vocabulary is used in science, academia, and law. Classical Latin is taught in many schools often combined with Greek in the study of Classics, though its role has diminished since the early 20th century.

Terminology deriving from Latin words and concepts is widely used, among other fields, in philosophy, medicine, biology, and law, in terms and abbreviations such as subpoena duces tecum, q.i.d. (quater in die: "four times a day"), and inter alia (among other things). These Latin terms are used in isolation, as technical terms. In scientific names for organisms, Latin is typically the language of choice, followed by Greek.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/group.php?groupid=258

[Wulfhere]

Tres anuli pro regibus Quendorum sub caelo,
Septem pro dominis Nanorum in regia lapidea eorum,
Novem pro Viris Mortalis mori condemnatis,
Unus pro domino nefario on solio obscuro eius
In terra Mordoris ubi umbrae iacent.
Unus Anulus ea omnia superare,
Unus Anulus ea invenire,
Unus Anulus ea omnia collocare
Et ea in tenebris nectere,
In terra Mordoris ubi umbrae iacent.

[HungAryan]

In taberna quando sumus,
non curamus quid sit humus,
sed ad ludum properamus,
cui semper insudamus.
quid agatur in taberna
ubi nummus est pincerna,
hoc est opus ut quaeratur;
si quid loquar, audiatur.

Quidam ludunt,
quidam bibunt,
quidam indiscrete vivunt.
sed in ludo qui morantur,
ex his quidam denudantur,
quidam ibi vestiuntur,
quidam saccis induuntur;
ibi nullus timet mortem,
sed pro Baccho mittunt sortem.

Primo pro nummata vini;
ex hac bibunt libertini;
semel bibunt pro captivis,
post haec bibunt ter pro vivis,
quater pro Christianis cunctis,
quinquies pro fidelibus defunctis,
sexies pro sororibus vanis,
septies pro militibus silvanis.
octies pro fratribus perversis,
nonies pro monachis dispersis,
decies pro navigantibus,
undecies pro discordantibus,
duodecies pro paenitentibus,
tredecies pro iter agentibus.

Tam pro papa quam pro rege
bibunt omnes sine lege.
Bibit hera, bibit herus,
bibit miles, bibit clerus,
bibit ille, bibit illa,
bibit servus cum ancilla,
bibit velox, bibit piger,
bibit albus, bibit niger,
bibit constans, bibit vagus,
bibit rudis, bibit magus,
Bibit pauper et aegrotus,
bibit exul et ignotus,
bibit puer, bibit canus,
bibit praesul et decanus,
bibit soror, bibit frater,
bibit anus, bibit mater,
bibit ista, bibit ille,
bibunt centum, bibunt mille.

Parum sescentae nummatae
durant cum immoderate
bibunt omnes sine meta,
quamvis bibant mente laeta;
sic nos rodunt omnes gentes,
et sic erimus egentes.
qui nos rodunt confundantur
et cum iustis non scribantur.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNLoti4sjlI
zNLoti4sjlI

[Amapola]

Latin mass revival all the way.

[Wulfhere]

Bibo ergo sum.

[HungAryan]

Latin mass revival all the way.

Assentior! (I agree!)

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

Dead languages should stay dead. Have you heard/understand some hebrew? It's mess, that's the kind of garbage that happens when you attempt to revive long dead languages. Spanish, French, Catalan, Italian, Romanian are the evolution. I would suggest u to learn Romanian as its closest to you.

[HungAryan]

Dead languages should stay dead. Have you heard/understand some hebrew? It's mess, that's the kind of garbage that happens when you attempt to revive long dead languages. Spanish, French, Catalan, Italian, Romanian are the evolution. I would suggest u to learn Romanian as its closest to you.

Italian is closer to Ancient Latin than Romanian.
Sardinian and Sicilian (local dialects of Southern Italian) are the closest to Latin.

Thus, we all know what Latin actually sounds like, so it won't sound garbage.
We can just use Italian pronunciation, and it will sound nice...

[Amapola]

Latin was used as a vehicular church language until the 60's, which makes it alive until very recently.

[HungAryan]

Latin was used as a vehicular church language until the 60's, which makes it alive until very recently.

Also, Latin was taught in every single school in Hungary until 1947.
Latin Education was killed by the Communist infidels.

And even today, Latin is taught in many universities, so it's definitely not an extinct language.

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

Sanskrit is spoken liturgically by some Brahmin sects. Doesn't mean it isn't extinct. When was that the last Native, monolingual Latin speaker last lived?

[HungAryan]

Sanskrit is spoken liturgically by some Brahmin sects. Doesn't mean it isn't extinct. When was that the last Native, monolingual Latin speaker last lived?

Sanskrit actually has about 30 000 Native Speakers.
Sure, Latin doesn't have any native speaker alive today, but it was kept alive by the Church and Renaissance Humanists, and it is the official language of the Vatican even to this day.

[Sylvanus]

Dead languages should stay dead. Have you heard/understand some hebrew?


I just left this here. :rolleyes:



L8Co7IzOyhw

[Unurautare]

Italian is closer to Ancient Latin than Romanian.
Sardinian and Sicilian (local dialects of Southern Italian) are the closest to Latin.

Thus, we all know what Latin actually sounds like, so it won't sound garbage.
We can just use Italian pronunciation, and it will sound nice...

:rolleyes:
Latin -us
Romanian(also Sardinian) -u
Italian -o

[HungAryan]

:rolleyes:
Latin -us
Romanian(also Sardinian) -u
Italian -o

Sicilian and Sardinian -u

Also, Romanian has a lot of Slavic loanwords.

[Unurautare]

Sicilian and Sardinian -u

Also, Romanian has a lot of Slavic loanwords.

Hungarian has maybe 3 times or more Slavic loanwords than Romanian,and we have them from the Orthodox church,while you were suppose to be Latinized by the Catholic church. ;) We can always make it 100% Latin if that butthurts you in any way,I think Romanian is OK as it is,we don't fake words just because of wannabe pure Latin,we also have loans from Hungarian and Turkish(Turkish foods like sarmale and ciorbă and various trade items). I'd imagine Italian should normally(historically) have German and maybe even Arabic influences but they just chose to standardize a fancy local dialect for the entire country.

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

I just left this here. :rolleyes:



L8Co7IzOyhw

She just has a nice voice, language is horrible. ISraeli Hebrew sounds nothing like ancient hebrew. It's basically semitized calques of Yiddish which is almost German.

[HungAryan]

She just has a nice voice, language is horrible. ISraeli Hebrew sounds nothing like ancient hebrew. It's basically semitized calques of Yiddish which is almost German.

That still doesn't guarantee that Revived Latin would be "Latinized calques of Italian"

[HungAryan]

Here, examples of Latin spoken...

6_IPqniaZR0
uCkUyaZlTN8
vBbdj_1B8vI

Does it sound horrible? :rolleyes:

[Arrow Cross]

Italian is closer to Ancient Latin than Romanian.
Sardinian and Sicilian (local dialects of Southern Italian) are the closest to Latin.

Thus, we all know what Latin actually sounds like, so it won't sound garbage.
We can just use Italian pronunciation, and it will sound nice...
Original Latin pronunciation is pretty much known, and it sounded nothing like what we - or anyone else - are used to. Bunch of Grecophiles they were, Kaisar, Kikero and the rest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_regional_pronunciation

[HungAryan]

Original Latin pronunciation is pretty much known, and it sounded nothing like what we - or anyone else - are used to. Bunch of Grecophiles they were, Kaisar, Kikero and the rest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_regional_pronunciation

Yes, I know...
Caesar was pronounced as Kaisar, and Cicero was pronounced as Kikero.
It's also interesting that "AE" was pronounced as AI in Ancient Latin, kinda like "I" or "aye" in Modern English

[Unurautare]

Original Latin pronunciation is pretty much known, and it sounded nothing like what we - or anyone else - are used to. Bunch of Grecophiles they were, Kaisar, Kikero and the rest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_regional_pronunciation

"Phonetic language",like Romanian. And yes,they were Grecophiles,the upper lair of the Roman society spoke Greek.

[Damião de Góis]

What practical use would it have now? English is the new latin, thanks to the americans.

[HungAryan]

What practical use would it have now? English is the new latin, thanks to the americans.

Things can change...
Thus, the power of America is in the decline.

[Unurautare]

What practical use would it have now? English is the new latin, thanks to the americans.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Origins_of_English_PieChart_2D.svg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b50/liffrea/zeze2qm.jpg

[HungAryan]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Origins_of_English_PieChart_2D.svg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b50/liffrea/zeze2qm.jpg

The Latinization of the English language began way before the Norman conquest.
Old English already had a large number of Latin loanwords before 1066, because of their conversion to Roman Catholicism.

[Damião de Góis]

English having a latin influence has nothing to do with the point i was making :D

[HungAryan]

English having a latin influence has nothing to do with the point i was making :D

Problematicum, meum amicus?
http://27.media.tumblr.com/avatar_6feb8634e3d0_128.png

[Unurautare]

English having a latin influence has nothing to do with the point i was making :D

It can have. It's not that bad as a world-wide language because it has pan-European influence(Latin,Germanic,Greek etc.),but most is from Latin,so it's sort of representative for Europe if you think about it.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Dead languages should stay dead. Have you heard/understand some hebrew? It's mess, that's the kind of garbage that happens when you attempt to revive long dead languages. Spanish, French, Catalan, Italian, Romanian are the evolution. I would suggest u to learn Romanian as its closest to you.

You can't even compare in beauty Latin to Romanian. Many Medieval Hungarian poets composed in Latin, and our writers written prose in Latin.

[GeistFaust]

No, I believe it would not be appropriate to revive Latin except for purposes that are scholastic in nature. If we wish to understand some text and its context properly regardless of the subject matter it would be important to use Latin.


But Latin is a dead language so there does not seem to be a merit in using Latin for every day speech but for only what many deem trivial or petty matters. The whole desire to revive dead or old means of expression is the instinct of theological concerns for which I have no concern.


It just runs in coincidence with the hocus pocus that has been consistently expressed within the dogmatic core of theological concerns in the Christian tradition. We have new forms of language to express the "concepts" which were passed down to us through the Latin language. It would be inadequate to go back to the same language which we don't have an adequate way of expressing in our own English language.

[Sikeliot]

I said not at all.

It serves no practical use as a living, spoken language in the same way we have English, French, etc. today. It should be preserved as the language of the Catholic Church however.

But we still have "Latin" today - it's called Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian, and Romanian. ;)

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Hungarian has maybe 3 times or more Slavic loanwords than Romanian,and we have them from the Orthodox church,while you were suppose to be Latinized by the Catholic church. ;) We can always make it 100% Latin if that butthurts you in any way,I think Romanian is OK as it is,we don't fake words just because of wannabe pure Latin,we also have loans from Hungarian and Turkish(Turkish foods like sarmale and ciorbă and various trade items). I'd imagine Italian should normally(historically) have German and maybe even Arabic influences but they just chose to standardize a fancy local dialect for the entire country.

That's why your language loaned thousands of words from French and Italian to make it sound more Latin :p

[gold_fenix]

mmm, i don't know what to say , i think it is important to keep this language for to study old text and keep the romance/latin culture but really i don't see the utility to speak it

[Sagitta Hungarica]

I see all Romance language speakers reject this idea. Are you afraid of new-old competition? :D

[Unurautare]

That's why your language loaned thousands of words from French and Italian to make it sound more Latin :p

Those are mainly neologism(new words - new inventions and so on),and Romanian doesn't sound like French or Italian,if we wanted we could made it 100% Latin(but you'll find it the same,written and spoken, wherever you go,even to places like Rep.Moldova),it's our right after all.

[HungAryan]

I see all Romance language speakers reject this idea. Are you afraid of new-old competition? :D

Fresa Salvaje is Spanish, but she approves the idea of Latin revival. Read her posts in the first page.

[Unurautare]

I see all Romance language speakers reject this idea. Are you afraid of new-old competition? :D

The neo-Latin languages just feel better than Latin,you ,as a non-European, can't really feel anything real about any of this :) .

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Those are mainly neologism(new words - new inventions and so on),and Romanian doesn't sound like French or Italian,if we wanted we could made it 100% Latin(but you'll find it the same,written and spoken, wherever you go,even to places like Rep.Moldova),it's our right after all.

You were so afraid to don't be misjudged as another Slavic people, that you abandoned your traditional Slavonic alphabet for a Latin one. This is insecurity alright ;)

[Unurautare]

You were so afraid to don't be misjudged as another Slavic people, that you abandoned your traditional Slavonic alphabet for a Latin one. This is insecurity alright ;)

It's not Slavonic,it's Cyrillic and it was made by Greeks. :rolleyes: Croats and Poles use Latin alphabet,are they insecure Slavs? Hungarians use Latin too - insecure Asians that abandoned their script?

[GeistFaust]

Fresa Salvaje is Spanish, but she approves the idea of Latin revival. Read her posts in the first page.


I will ask you politely why you consider Latin to have any greater priority over other languages within the context of the present day. I can see it possessing a great value over other dead languages, because it was the language of the greatest entity in human history. I don't think this brings it any relevance to the modern world though and our present situation. It might be important for translating certain historical texts, but even then we are limited to comprehending the meaning of certain Latin phrases.


It serves no purpose to try make a dead language into something which a certain group of people can use to communicate in an ordinary day to day sense. Latin has mutated and scattered itself through other languages, which have borrowed the Latin to construct something completely unique and original. Languages are meant to diverge and mutate off from each other so new classes and groups of language can evolve.


Its sort of the same way with human reproduction from generation to generation. Which makes me want to ask you the question is it viable to ressurect a long lost and ancient people or species and try to bring it back to life. This would be impossible and so would be reviving Latin to its original state and in the same context as it was understood by the people who spoke it 2000 years ago.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

The neo-Latin languages just feel better than Latin,you ,as a non-European, can't really feel anything real about any of this :) .

I definitely find French superior in beauty to Latin, but Romanian especially pales in beauty to it. And I say this with all honesty, no need to get offended.

[Unurautare]

I definitely find French superior in beauty to Latin, but Romanian especially pales in beauty to it. And I say this with all honesty, no need to get offended.

Tastes are not to be discussed. :coffee:

[HungAryan]

I will ask you politely why you consider Latin to have any greater priority over other languages within the context of the present day.

It's part of our legacy.
Not just because of history and religion, but also because of it's influence on modern-day European languages.

Thus, Latin is a really beautiful language.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

It's not Slavonic,it's Cyrillic and it was made by Greeks. :rolleyes: Croats and Poles use Latin alphabet,are they insecure Slavs? Hungarians use Latin too - insecure Asians that abandoned their script?

You don't know much, do you? Poles, Croats, Hungarians adopted Latin script because they are Catholic states. This happened 1000 years ago. Romanians on the other hand made a u-turn in the 19th century, shifting to Latin writing for strictly political aspirations.

[Unurautare]

You don't know much, do you? Poles, Croats, Hungarians adopted Latin script because they are Catholic states. This happened 1000 years ago. Romanians on the other hand made a u-turn in the 19th century, shifting to Latin writing for strictly political aspirations.

Yes,and? Hungarians adopted Christianity for political reasons too(or every neighboring Christian country would have had the go ahead to come and conquer Hungary),and you also changed from Byzantines to Rome(the crown of Hungary is byzantine and some old hungarian nobles were in fact Orthodox). Romanians Christianized in a natural manner,we didn't have a King to forcefully convert us on some specific calendar date.

[GeistFaust]

It's part of our legacy.
Not just because of history and religion, but also because of it's influence on modern-day European languages.

Thus, Latin is a really beautiful language.


Yeah but our legacy more or less is dynamical and constantly evolving into new forms and means of expressions. We might not lose that which we denote, but the way in which we denote it will always change and evolve. This means that to a certain extent each unique European ethnicity or group continues to contain those archetypes and primal symbols, which each member of that specific ethnicity unify themselves to.


This process can only be attained through the necessary evolution of the means of expression and utility of language as it regards the Archetypes of a people's consciousness. We might only achieve a fragmented understanding or conception of the Archetype of a certain people's consciousness, but its fundamental that a people's identity is lost and found again in the evolution of language.


It works the same with all organisms in nature which are constantly evolving to an ever higher state of being and vitality. This means there are certain "meanings" and "concepts" we will lose when a language mutates and "transforms" itself into a whole class or group of languages. Its just too idealistic to want to relive the legacy which we are a "reflection" of.


The only way to do so would to construct a reaffirmation on the basis of our current language base. Our current language base can not adequately revive the archaic and ancient ways of times long ago.


I think its fruitless to communicate Latin in the same sense and with the same sense which the Ancient Romans possessed when speaking Latin. The legacy lives on in those other languages which either have borrowed marginally from Latin or derive a large deal of their structure from the Latin language itself.

[Scrapple]

What practical use would it have now? English is the new latin, thanks to the English.

Fixed it for you. England was the one that spread its use all over the globe we are just an early beneficiary.

I do think Latin should be taught in schools. It is the base for many European languages so might help the appalling lack skills in other languages here in the US.

[askra]

Italian is closer to Ancient Latin than Romanian.
Sardinian and Sicilian (local dialects of Southern Italian) are the closest to Latin.

Thus, we all know what Latin actually sounds like, so it won't sound garbage.
We can just use Italian pronunciation, and it will sound nice...

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/7915/romancelanguageswikiped.png

sardinian is not an italian dialect but an indipendent language very distant from italian, it was spoken before italian was invented.

latin is not a easy language to speak
you should learn declensions, verb conjugations, speak without articles, etc...
i have hated studying latin at school!

[Damião de Góis]

Fixed it for you. England was the one that spread its use all over the globe we are just an early beneficiary.

I do think Latin should be taught in schools. It is the base for many European languages so might help the appalling lack skills in other languages here in the US.

This has been discussed before... the reason why the whole world speaks english is because of American movies, tv shows and music. American accents are much more familiar to foreigners than those obscure english accents that no one understands.

[Leliana]

I learnt Latin in boarding school but I'm not completely fluent yet still I like it and its great history and impact on Europe! :) I would like to revive it in church, not only for the 'Tridentine Mass' of our Catholic Church but for all masses. I'm not for installing it as state or country language, of course. We Germans speak German, but in church it should be Latin.

The 'Society of St. Pius X' is on a good way on this regard! People do the Pius Society wrong by reducing them to the bishop Richard Williamson. The Pius Society often do the right decisions and don't kneel down to some of the ill contemporary perversions.

[Unurautare]

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/7915/romancelanguageswikiped.png

sardinian is not an italian dialect but an indipendent language very distant from italian, it was spoken before italian was invented.

latin is not a easy language to speak
you should learn declensions, verb conjugations, speak without articles, etc...
i have hated studying latin at school!

That chart should have Pannonian Romance too ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonian_Romance) maybe on the same level as Dalmatian,and Proto-Romanian should have more branches: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istro-Romanian_language ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megleno-Romanian_language and others. Also it seems "Balkan Romance" was added unnecessary just to artificially add another lair.

[Peyrol]

Latin was spoken by the Ancient Romans, who created the first and only Pan-European Empire that ever existed.
Also, Church Latin was the language of Western Christianity until the Protestant Reformation, thus, Latin was the official language of many countries in Europe. In Hungary, for example, Latin was the official language until 1844.

Latin lives in the form of Ecclesiastical Latin, used for laws and decrees issued by Hierarchs of the Catholic Church, and in the form of a sparse sprinkling of scientific or social articles written in it, as well as in numerous Latin clubs. Latin vocabulary is used in science, academia, and law. Classical Latin is taught in many schools often combined with Greek in the study of Classics, though its role has diminished since the early 20th century.

Terminology deriving from Latin words and concepts is widely used, among other fields, in philosophy, medicine, biology, and law, in terms and abbreviations such as subpoena duces tecum, q.i.d. (quater in die: "four times a day"), and inter alia (among other things). These Latin terms are used in isolation, as technical terms. In scientific names for organisms, Latin is typically the language of choice, followed by Greek.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/group.php?groupid=258

Yes, i'm for the revival of latin as international language.

It's not so difficult to learn as many peoples say.

[Peyrol]

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/7915/romancelanguageswikiped.png

sardinian is not an italian dialect but an indipendent language very distant from italian, it was spoken before italian was invented.

latin is not a easy language to speak
you should learn declensions, verb conjugations, speak without articles, etc...
i have hated studying latin at school!

I love sardinian language.

Anyway, i study latin also nowadays at university...vulgar latin is very easy as language, not like the pompous noble language of Tacito or Seneca (i hated their versioni too).

[Libertas]

Italian is closer to Ancient Latin than Romanian.
Sardinian and Sicilian (local dialects of Southern Italian) are the closest to Latin.

Thus, we all know what Latin actually sounds like, so it won't sound garbage.
We can just use Italian pronunciation, and it will sound nice...

Florentine is closest to Latin not Sicilian.

According to linguistic historian Giacomo Devoto the order of PROXIMITY TO LATIN is:

Florentine, Salentine, Sardinian, Venetic, Central Italian (Lazio,Marche,Umbria), Sicilian/South Calabrian, South Tyrrhenian coast, Friulan,South Adriatic coast, Eastern Gallo-Italian and Western Gallo-Italian (Milan, Turin etc)

[Caeruleus]

This is a SF scenario :) but if the latin language would be revived it would only work for romance nations. Latin is a rather difficult language, I can only imagine what an ordeal would be for slavs or germans to learn it :) and it simply doesnt make sense for non-romance nations to adopt latin as their official language.

On a more realistic note I think latin should be taught in schools for lets say 3 academic years. One would be able to read, understand and maybe speak basic latin.

It amuses me when people philosophize about the beauty (or the lack of beauty) of a language that they dont speak or understand :) I heard a lot of people saying that russian is ugly or too rough, or too whatever ... I say to those IDIOTS that russian is absolutely splendid, the same goes for basicaly every language on this planet (with a few exceptions) :) ... one can not compare two entities of which one is unknown to the person attempting to make the comparison :) not to mention the situation when THE IDIOT doesnt understand both entities ;)

[Sarcofago]

italian and latin language since the beginning have always two kinds(genres),the spoken language understood and written almost by all and a sort of higher language only possessed by few,it's alwyas be that way and will continue..;)

[Arrow Cross]

Also it seems "Balkan Romance" was added unnecessary just to artificially add another lair.
Not everyone in the world subscribes to "Daco-Romanism". :p

[Unurautare]

This is a SF scenario :) but if the latin language would be revived it would only work for romance nations. Latin is a rather difficult language, I can only imagine what an ordeal would be for slavs or germans to learn it :) and it simply doesnt make sense for non-romance nations to adopt latin as their official language.

On a more realistic note I think latin should be taught in schools for lets say 3 academic years. One would be able to read, understand and maybe speak basic latin.

It amuses me when people philosophize about the beauty (or the lack of beauty) of a language that they dont speak or understand :) I heard a lot of people saying that russian is ugly or too rough, or too whatever ... I say to those IDIOTS like Sagitta Hungarica&co. that russian is absolutely splendid, the same goes for basicaly every language on this planet (with a few exceptions) :) ... one can not compare two entities of which one is unknown to the person attempting to make the comparison :) not to mention the situation when THE IDIOT aka Sagitta Hungarica the Asian doesnt understand both entities ;)

Corrected. :)

[Unurautare]

Not everyone in the world subscribes to "Daco-Romanism". :p

You can see that it doesn't have an article,it was just put there to make Romanian appear newer,when it was in fact already formed before the Hungarian invasion of Europe. :P

[HungAryan]

aah_ITLw3R8
O29Z7IVtwfc
SugtS3tqsoo

:cool:

[Sagitta Hungarica]

You can see that it doesn't have an article,it was just put there to make Romanian appear newer,when it was in fact already formed before the Hungarian invasion of Europe. :P

Show me any Romanian text before the Homecoming of the Magyars and then we can talk. As a fact Romanians have one of the latest developed literature in Europe.

[HungAryan]

Come on guys, stop this Hungary vs Wallachia debate...
We all agree that Latin should be revived, right?
So, let's just stop the Off Topic :D

[Äike]

Latin was spoken by the Ancient Romans, who created the first and only Pan-European Empire that ever existed.
Also, Church Latin was the language of Western Christianity until the Protestant Reformation, thus, Latin was the official language of many countries in Europe. In Hungary, for example, Latin was the official language until 1844.

Latin lives in the form of Ecclesiastical Latin, used for laws and decrees issued by Hierarchs of the Catholic Church, and in the form of a sparse sprinkling of scientific or social articles written in it, as well as in numerous Latin clubs. Latin vocabulary is used in science, academia, and law. Classical Latin is taught in many schools often combined with Greek in the study of Classics, though its role has diminished since the early 20th century.

Terminology deriving from Latin words and concepts is widely used, among other fields, in philosophy, medicine, biology, and law, in terms and abbreviations such as subpoena duces tecum, q.i.d. (quater in die: "four times a day"), and inter alia (among other things). These Latin terms are used in isolation, as technical terms. In scientific names for organisms, Latin is typically the language of choice, followed by Greek.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/group.php?groupid=258

I'm guessing that you have never learned Latin.

I had to learn Latin in school and voted for the 1st option. Latin is a very difficult and complicated language.

[Der Steinadler]

Apart from scholarly interest there's little point in teaching it widespread in schools.

[TheBorrebyViking]

I'm guessing that you have never learned Latin.

I had to learn Latin in school and voted for the 1st option. Latin is a very difficult and complicated language.

I voted for that it should be taught. I had to take one, and I had Spanish(lol, no, not for me), Chinese(no use for me), and Latin. I choose Latin, I hated it so much. We had to read so many books in Latin and I hated it so much. I still think kids should learn it, atleast one semester of it.

[HungAryan]

I'm guessing that you have never learned Latin.

I had to learn Latin in school and voted for the 1st option. Latin is a very difficult and complicated language.

I never learned Latin, but I can understand some of it.
Thus, I want to learn it once.

[Äike]

I never learned Latin, but I can understand some of it.
Thus, I want to learn it once.

Start learning Latin and then come talking about forcing entire Europe to speak Latin.

*facepalm*

[HungAryan]

Start learning Latin and then come talking about forcing entire Europe to speak Latin.

*facepalm*

You missunderstood me.
I never said I want to force entire Europe to speak Latin :rolleyes:
I said it should be revived as the language of international negotiations and stuff like that...

[Padre Organtino]

I see no point in enforcing Latin upon Europe now. It's too difficult to become international language. That said it would possibly be beneficial to encourage students to learn it so that they can have direct access to a large part of European cultural heritage that is written in Latin.

[HungAryan]

I see no point in enforcing Latin upon Europe now. It's too difficult to become international language. That said it would possibly be beneficial to encourage students to learn it so that they can have direct access to a large part of European cultural heritage that is written in Latin.

Exactly.
Learning Latin would be key to keep in touch with a large part of our European cultural heritage.

[W. R.]

No, once it becomes alive it will be bastardized. Keeping it dead makes sure that it will stay 'the eternal language' - 'eternally frozen'.

[Midori]

Yes, both Latin and ancient Greek are really cool archaic languages and should definitely be revived and taught in schools. But I don't think either of them should replace English as the universal language..

[Hess]

I believe that children in Europe should be taught Latin as part of their European heritage. However, I see no reason for Colonials to be taught Latin as it is hardly part of their heritage.

[Unurautare]

Show me any Romanian text before the Homecoming of the Magyars and then we can talk. As a fact Romanians have one of the latest developed literature in Europe.

Central Asian version of Thomas the Unbeliever? :<

South of the Danube:


An episode of the war of the Byzantine Empire against the Avars in 587-588, recorded by Theophylact Simocatta (7th century) and Theophanes Confessor (c. 758-817/818), contains the first reference to a proto-Romanian population at the southern end of the Balkan Mountains.[12] The episode indicates that the loss of order among the marching troops was caused by a soldier who called the one marching ahead of him in his “native tongue” to turn around (“torna, torna” or “torna, torna frater”).[12] This expression shows the evolution of vulgar Latin into Proto-Romanian.[

North of the Danube,Biertan near Sibiu(Transylvania) 6th century AD:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/DonariumBiertan.JPG

EGO ZENOVIUS VOTUM POSUI
"Eu, Zenovius, am oferit acest dar"
Me,Zenovious,offered this gift.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Central Asian version of Thomas the Unbeliever? :<

South of the Danube:



North of the Danube,Biertan near Sibiu(Transylvania) 6th century AD:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/DonariumBiertan.JPG

EGO ZENOVIUS VOTUM POSUI
"Eu, Zenovius, am oferit acest dar"
Me,Zenovious,offered this gift.

Who you try to fool? That's a text in Latin, and has no meaning in Romanian.

[Unurautare]

Who you try to fool? That's a text in Latin, and has no meaning in Romanian.

It had back then,1500 years passed,asian.

[HungAryan]

It had back then,1500 years passed.

Latin or Archaic Romanian =/= Modern Romanian :rolleyes:
That would be saying that Old English (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfaEGU45lKA) is the same as Modern English...

[Volkodav]

Why Latin and not Esperento or any of the new languages ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto

[MagnaLaurentia]

Why Latin and not Esperento or any of the new languages ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto

Esperento = Jew creation + Yiddish words... no thanks

I am not against the idea of ​​an international language would be Latin, "neo-latin" (look like basic English) or a constructed langage based on true indo-european words. But this language would have to be simple and effective. (grammar, syntax, spelling, conjugation, no accent on the letters...)

[Volkodav]

Esperento = Jew creation + Yiddish words... no thanks

I am not against the idea of ​​an international language would be Latin, "neo-latin" (look like basic English) or a constructed langage based on true indo-european words. But this language would have to be simple and effective. (grammar, syntax, spelling, conjugation, no accent on the letters...)

That was the first thing that came in mind, there is also Interlingua, Slovianski or even a celtic/latin mix http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brithenig

There's a lot of new languages, and many of them are based on European grammar and vocabualy, and my oppinon is to use one of those languages when comunicating with each other (people of european descent). We can also not have to deal with those muslims that troll this forum 24/7. Let them speak english all they want.

[Peyrol]

I'm guessing that you have never learned Latin.

I had to learn Latin in school and voted for the 1st option. Latin is a very difficult and complicated language.

As languages​​, german and russian (examples) are much more difficult compared to Latin.

[askra]

I love sardinian language.

Anyway, i study latin also nowadays at university...vulgar latin is very easy as language, not like the pompous noble language of Tacito or Seneca (i hated their versioni too).

the only interesting latin poet for me was Catullus, unfortunately his poetries are all censored at school :D

[Comte Arnau]

Latin is the language of the European Man. As a proud Europe, we should revive Latin.

IN VARIETATE CONCORDIA


-- Imperator sum
http://lasvegasblog.harrahs.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/statue1_500w.jpg


English makes us a parody submissive to the US.

-- I am your hero, Captain Europe!
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/109473447/n1459040515_30164499_2593065_normal.jpg
http://www.thepaltrysapien.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/lib.jpg

[Ouistreham]

As languages​​, german and russian (examples) are much more difficult compared to Latin.

This is debatable.
And most importantly, with German (or Russian) you can test at any time your level of fluency with native speakers. With Latin, a time machine is a prerequisite.

At school, I learned German as 1st foreign language, then English. My dad insisted that I should also include Latin in the curriculum.

Now I very much regret that I successfully resisted parental pressure.

I love to read ancient Roman authors in bilingual editions (Tacitus, Titus-Livivs) just to compare the translation with the original text, and I'm very much impressed by the concise expressivity allowed by a language with a rich declension system. It's really awesome.

There should be a law to make Latin mandatory to all pupils for at least one year (or two).

[Comte Arnau]

Some living languages would love to have the number of fluent speakers and the media that "dead" Latin has...

[Svipdag]

To be classified as living, a language should be the vernacular language of a people. Is Latin anyone's birth language ? Does anybody grow up speaking Latin as his primary language ?

What is the point of reviving Latin ? Who would speak it and why ? Hebrew represents a very special case. A new country was being created which needed a language of its own. Most of the original settlers of Israel spoke Yiddish, but that language is based on 16th century German and, among the
"movers and shakers" of the new nation, anti-German feeling was so strong that the German-based language spoken by most of its inhabitants was rejected.

If a new nation were to be created whose people had no common language, there might be a plausible reason to revive Latin. Otherwise, there would seem to be no valid reason for doing so.


"FESTINA LENTE" - GAIVS IVLIVS OCTAVIVS

[Óttar]

Latin should DEFINITELY be revived. Optimally, IMO, a revived Latin would use the Classical pronunciation. There is no good reason why Latin is not a living language. Its grammar is certainly not impossible and is a piece of cake compared to ancient Greek or Sanskrit.

The oral component of Latin learning CANNOT be ignored. My teacher told me using conversation as a pedagogical device is impractical as it could not be reconstructed. WRONG. We have a COPIOUS amount of literature, not to mention Roman graffiti, from which we could construct a conversational Latin. Just look at the international Latin convention (the name of which I do not presently recall) where Latin learners come together to speak completely in Latin.

[Comte Arnau]

What is the point of reviving Latin ? Who would speak it and why ?

If a new nation were to be created whose people had no common language, there might be a plausible reason to revive Latin. Otherwise, there would seem to be no valid reason for doing so.

The point would be a lingua franca for Europe other than English. And as a lingua franca, it would be simplified. No need even to call it other than LINGUA FRANCA, as the term -oh my- is in Latin already. ;)

Obviously nobody expects those who already speak English nowadays to like the idea. Except perhaps those who realize that English could work better as a powerful ethnic identifying tool if the language wasn't broken by millions of 2nd speakers and polluted with non-English words from the four corners of the world. :tongue

[Svipdag]

Of the languages which should be studied as a second language, Latin must rank very high. Granted, it does not have the practical importance in today's world of German or Chinese, but, as the ancestor of the Romance languages and the contributor of 1/3 of the words in the English language, its linguistic importance is undeniable.

It ought, therefore, to be offered in the public schools to those students who
are interested in being educated, rather than merely trained for an occupation or profession. Making it mandatory would accomplish nothing other than to engender hostility toward it.

To my mind, it is impossible to "revive" a language unless it is somehow to become the language of a new nation. Latin is as "alive" right now as it ever can be.


"NON SVM QVALIS ERAM" - QVINTVS HORATIVS FLACCVS

[Peyrol]

Just a curiosity: original latin, the archaic language spoken when Roma was a little federation of small villages under etrurian rule, was quite different from the classical one, which has stabilized around the reign of Tarquinius Priscus when Roma become a regional power.

Example of archaic latin:

« este persklum aves anzeriates enetu
pernaies pusnaes preveres treplanes
iuve krapuvi tre buf fetu arvia ustentu
vatuva ferine feitu heris vinu heri puni
ukriper fisiu tutaper ikuvina feitu sevum »

I understand maximum 5-7 words.

[Damião de Góis]

Honestly i wouldn't like the idea of having to learn latin. I would feel like a celtiberian in 100 BC :(

[Odoacer]

However, I see no reason for Colonials to be taught Latin as it is hardly part of their heritage.

It's as much a part of the "Colonial" heritage as Latin is part of their language & was part of their home country's heritage. In America's case: much of the English language is comprised of loanwords from Latin & Latin's daughter tongues, & even English grammar has been affected by Latin. The Founding Fathers were in large part classically educated (they learned Latin!) & very much influenced by political ideals drawn from the period of the Roman Republic. It's no surprise that much of America's civic architecture is in the Roman style. You have to be quite ignorant of America's heritage to suggest seriously that the Latin language is "hardly part" of it.

[Peyrol]

^

Just my opinion, but in 2100 american english will be more latinized than now, due to hispanic influence on the "vulgar" language.

[Yaroslav]

No, what is the point of resurrecting ancient language. Jews and Greeks resurrected ancient languages, I don't see the point.

[2Cool]

No. I know Portuguese and French that's good enough for me right now. Leave Latin to the Priests in the Vatican. Nobody cares what they say so it's fitting that they should use a language that most don't understand.

[Contra Mundum]

Latin shouldn't be mandatory, but I would like to see the language make a comeback.

[Guapo]

no, what for? The closest language to Latin nowadays is Romanian.

[Yaroslav]

no, what for? The closest language to Latin nowadays is Romanian.

Sardinian actually.

[Guapo]

Sardinian actually.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2472/3853228922_2ef7a1e62c_z.jpg

[Sikeliot]

Italian is the closest in terms of vocabulary, Romanian in terms of grammar.

[Guapo]

Romanian in terms of grammar.

Yeah, dats wuyt I meant brah

[Yaroslav]

Italian is the closest in terms of vocabulary, Romanian in terms of grammar.

Sardinian is closer. Also Sardinian is not Italian.

[Sikeliot]

Sardinian is closer. Also Sardinian is not Italian.

I'd have to see Sardinian in writing to be able to judge.

[Guapo]

I'd have to see Sardinian in writing to be able to judge.

He's pulling your crotch.

[Sikeliot]

Spanish also seems very close in terms of verbs.

[Peyrol]

Italian is the closest in terms of vocabulary, Romanian in terms of grammar.

Actually is sardinian the closest language to latin...


This video is in sardinian with double sardinian and italian subtitles...see the differences between two languages

DNfRtGxgUNo

[Virtuous]

Should do like Norman Lowell says, us Maltese should forget this alien language that has been forced on us and learn Latin.

[Comte Arnau]

Sardinian is probably the closest in vocabulary indeed, but without any massive statistical work to prove it, we can only suspect it. Let us bear in mind that Sardinian had also proto-Roman substrate and that languages such as Catalan have influenced it a lot, although Logudorese probably maintained more genuine forms.

Anyway, I find this debate about the proximity to Latin kind of useless, as we first should start by asking 'to what Latin?'. Italian might not have had as significant a non-Romance influence in vocabulary as French, Spanish or Romanian have had, but peripheral languages like Portuguese-Spanish and Romanian, and often Sardinian, often maintain old terms which are closer to Classical Latin, while more central languages like Italian, French and Occitan-Catalan participated more of the innovations that Latin itself was creating. That is seen in the preference of some old terms instead of the newer ones:


TABLE
PORTUGUESE/SPANISH/ROMANIAN/SARDINIAN < MENSA
CATALAN/OCCITAN/FRENCH/ITALIAN < TABULA

TO BOIL
PORTUGUESE/SPANISH/ROMANIAN < FERVERE
CATALAN/OCCITAN/FRENCH/ITALIAN < BULLIRE

TO SPEAK
PORTUGUESE/SPANISH/SARDINIAN < FABULARE
CATALAN/OCCITAN/FRENCH/ITALIAN < PARABOLARE

SUMMER
PORTUGUESE/SPANISH/ROMANIAN < VERA, VERANU
CATALAN/OCCITAN/FRENCH/ITALIAN < AESTIVU, AESTATE

[askra]

I'd have to see Sardinian in writing to be able to judge.

Latin: pone mihi tres panes in bertula.

Sardinian: Ponemi tres panes in bertula.

[Comte Arnau]

But is bertula a word from Classical Latin?

[askra]

But is bertula a word from Classical Latin?

The phrase "pone mihi tres panes in bertula" is often used to show the high similarity between latin and sardinian.
Bertula in sardinian means rucksack or bag.