800BC- 600BC model- Rise of Scythians [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

View Full Version : 800BC- 600BC model- Rise of Scythians

cass

11-04-2024, 03:20 PM

Next period, this time from 800BC to 600BC.
We are finally reaching the Scythian Age and there will be a lot going on in Eastern Europe.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Scythian_kingdom_in_the_Pontic_steppe.jpg/1280px-Scythian_kingdom_in_the_Pontic_steppe.jpg

We still have an arechological gap in Scandinavia and most of CE. The only Danish sample is of low quality but quite interesting.

Denmark_BA before 800 BC>
Target: Denmark_BA:RISE276__BC_662__Cov_7.87%
Distance: 4.3150% / 0.04314970 | ADC: 0.25x RC
60.2 England_LBA
17.0 France_GrandEst_LBA
11.2 Estonia_BA.SG
7.4 Armenia_Bagheri_Tchala_EIA
2.0 Japan_Nagabaka_2800BP
1.8 Armenia_LBA.SG
0.4 Ukraine_Volyn_Lusatian_EIA

between 1600-1400BC
Target: Denmark_BA:RISE276__BC_662__Cov_7.87%
Distance: 3.8187% / 0.03818735 | ADC: 0.25x RC
39.6 Scotland_Orkney_MBA.SG
29.4 Croatia_MLBA
20.8 Russia_MLBA_Krasnoyarsk
10.2 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA

Interestingly, the current Germanic people are not very similar to the Danish sample and correlate with more distant populations.

Distance to: Swedish
0.03284402 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I12106__BC_664__Cov_55.91%
0.03727704 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I11719__BC_626__Cov_54.31%
0.03764997 England_EIA:I13682__BC_662__Cov_63.26%
0.03912739 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16326__BC_675__Cov_42.35%
0.04001789 England_EIA:I13688__BC_639__Cov_58.09%
0.04021361 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
0.04026519 Hungary_EIA_o3:I25525__BC_600__Cov_68.20%
0.04071566 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 2__BC_660__Cov_16.42%
0.04152593 England_EIA:I19287__BC_620__Cov_38.19%
0.04190399 England_EIA:I17260__BC_600__Cov_57.29%
0.04228379 England_EIA:I16618__BC_654__Cov_36.01%
0.04239171 England_EIA:I19861__BC_647__Cov_58.85%
0.04412038 England_EIA:I19868__BC_629__Cov_49.59%
0.04536849 England_EIA:I19862__BC_621__Cov_57.07%
0.04550280 Slovenia_EIA:I5690__BC_624__Cov_82.13%
0.04551320 England_EIA:C10462__BC_750__Cov_31.38%
0.04633005 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR03 5AB__BC_650__Cov_81.80%
0.04730541 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 3__BC_650__Cov_32.42%
0.04920865 England_EIA:I27382__BC_642__Cov_73.86%
0.05013803 Ukraine_Scythian.SG:scy009_noUDG.SG__BC_618__Cov_6 9.53%
0.05050130 England_EIA:I20585__BC_600__Cov_64.38%
0.05102799 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 4__BC_650__Cov_36.39%
0.05103517 England_EIA:I12783__BC_649__Cov_61.15%
0.05105098 Montenegro_IA:I13170_v54.1_addback__BC_600__Cov_66 .37%
0.05135111 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16327__BC_642__Cov_42.02%

Target: Swedish
Distance: 1.5825% / 0.01582471 | ADC: 0.5x RC
41.6 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug
26.0 England_EIA
13.0 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA
11.8 England_Derbyshire_IA.SG
7.6 Ukraine_Srubnaya_MLBA

Target: German_Hamburg
Distance: 0.8595% / 0.00859458 | ADC: 0.5x RC
27.4 England_EIA
19.4 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug
19.0 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA
15.4 Slovenia_EIA
10.2 Denmark_BA
8.6 Hungary_EIA_o3

I would rather explain the proximity to the Scythian samples so far by the lack of a local sample base.
It is quite possible that the Germanics actually come partly from Trzciniec, or rather the proto-Germano-Slavic population that we have already seen near Tollensee.

It is worth paying attention to who these Scythians were before 800 BC.

Distance to: Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
0.04713914 England_LBA_lowEEF:I5383__BC_995__Cov_24.36%
0.05159140 Italy_Tarquinia_IA:ITTQ11__BC_810__Cov_67.75%
0.05182990 Czechia_LBA_Knoviz:I16549__BC_918__Cov_45.51%
0.05227373 England_LBA:I14864__BC_889__Cov_64.97%
0.05273528 Czechia_LBA_Knoviz:I20526__BC_900__Cov_17.62%
0.05444538 Scotland_LBA:I2861__BC_893__Cov_53.76%
0.05497588 Ukraine_Volyn_Lusatian_EIA:UKR168__BC_850__Cov_57. 47%
0.05520032 England_LBA:I14358__BC_858__Cov_62.54%
0.05699525 England_LBA:I16469__BC_995__Cov_31.65%
0.05764161 Ukraine_Odesa_ThracianHallstatt_2_EIA:UKR000__BC_8 50__Cov_68.51%
0.05809031 Scotland_LBA:I2860__BC_874__Cov_70.84%
0.05908766 England_LBA:I14377__BC_939__Cov_67.64%
0.05912873 England_LBA:I14379__BC_851__Cov_57.31%
0.05922461 England_LBA:I12614__BC_950__Cov_11.87%
0.05946585 England_LBA:I14862__BC_884__Cov_71.32%
0.05966404 England_LBA_lowEEF:I13711__BC_978__Cov_72.69%
0.06033422 Czechia_LBA_Knoviz_low_res:I14481__BC_884__Cov_7.5 6%
0.06129395 Scotland_LBA:I2859__BC_860__Cov_69.03%
0.06225508 Slovenia_LBA:I5697__BC_849__Cov_80.12%
0.06334214 England_LBA_highEEF:I14865__BC_873__Cov_20.93%
0.06346310 Hungary_LBA_Kyjatice.SG:BR2_noUDG.SG__BC_908__Cov_ 99.97%
0.06518097 Hungary_LBA:I25505__BC_961__Cov_39.03%
0.06548917 England_LBA:I12624__BC_850__Cov_21.40%
0.06577430 Hungary_LBA_Kyjatice:I1504__BC_908__Cov_58.62%
0.06613753 Scotland_LBA:I3130__BC_894__Cov_70.53%

Target: Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
Distance: 3.1858% / 0.03185792 | ADC: 2x RC
49.2 Czechia_LBA_Knoviz
44.8 Ukraine_Volyn_Lusatian_EIA
4.2 England_LBA
1.8 Italy_Tarquinia_IA

and between 1400-1600BC
Target: Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
Distance: 2.6161% / 0.02616051 | ADC: 1x RC
57.8 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA
24.0 Croatia_MLBA
16.8 England_MBA
1.4 Denmark_BA_Bybjerg

between 1800-2000BC
Target: Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
Distance: 3.1976% / 0.03197627 | ADC: 1x RC
74.8 Czechia_EBA_Unetice
25.2 Hungary_Fuzesabony_MBA

Have fun

Ancient samples in chronological order
Please note, If contaminated or low coverage samples appear in the results, they can/should be removed.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aRTb4hVrNO3WGTElB6DNGfd2_3EDLQ66/view?usp=sharing

Apart from no ADC variant, it's also worth using distance reduction 0.25x and 0.5x to avoid artificial atomization of the results.

Distance to: cass
0.02932196 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR03 5AB__BC_650__Cov_81.80%
0.02992158 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I12106__BC_664__Cov_55.91%
0.03110017 Hungary_EIA_o3:I25525__BC_600__Cov_68.20%
0.03233524 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I11719__BC_626__Cov_54.31%
0.03408713 Montenegro_IA:I13170_v54.1_addback__BC_600__Cov_66 .37%
0.03410240 Ukraine_Scythian.SG:scy009_noUDG.SG__BC_618__Cov_6 9.53%
0.03502094 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
0.04083420 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 4__BC_650__Cov_36.39%
0.04093869 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16326__BC_675__Cov_42.35%
0.04530331 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA:UKR116 __BC_645__Cov_46.54%
0.04591092 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 3__BC_650__Cov_32.42%
0.04823787 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 2__BC_660__Cov_16.42%
0.04907900 England_EIA:I19861__BC_647__Cov_58.85%
0.04958128 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16088__BC_643__Cov_34.39%
0.05108673 England_EIA:I17260__BC_600__Cov_57.29%
0.05239724 England_EIA:I19287__BC_620__Cov_38.19%
0.05254548 Slovenia_EIA:I5690__BC_624__Cov_82.13%
0.05269032 England_EIA:I13682__BC_662__Cov_63.26%
0.05298195 Croatia_EIA:I5727__BC_636__Cov_53.43%
0.05401237 England_EIA:I13688__BC_639__Cov_58.09%
0.05426337 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18211__BC_775__C ov_65.63%
0.05443300 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18245__BC_775__C ov_68.31%
0.05475529 Ukraine_Scythian:MJ14__BC_643__Cov_8.13%
0.05522285 Ukraine_Scythian.SG:scy010_noUDG.SG__BC_656__Cov_2 7.35%
0.05627691 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16327__BC_642__Cov_42.02%

Target: cass
Distance: 0.8629% / 0.00862863
33.2 Latvia_BA
21.0 Germany_West-Hallstattkreis_EIA
9.0 Macedonia_IA
8.4 England_EIA
8.0 Ukraine_Scythian
6.8 Ukraine_Srubnaya_MLBA
6.6 England_EIA_low_res
5.2 Denmark_BA
1.2 Lebanon_IA2.SG
0.6 Japan_Nagabaka_2800BP

Target: cass
Distance: 1.0326% / 0.01032560 | ADC: 0.25x RC
27.8 Germany_West-Hallstattkreis_EIA
18.4 Latvia_BA
18.2 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA
13.4 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA
10.6 Ukraine_Scythian
6.0 Denmark_BA
5.6 England_EIA

Target: cass
Distance: 1.5052% / 0.01505187 | ADC: 0.5x RC
17.4 England_EIA
14.8 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA
13.4 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA
12.8 Ukraine_Scythian
12.4 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA
10.0 Ukraine_Scythian.SG
8.4 Hungary_EIA_o3
6.8 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug
3.2 Denmark_BA
0.8 Montenegro_IA

Unfortunately, we do not have any samples from Belarus, Lithuania and Poland so we can only speculate based on neighboring samples where cremation was not practiced.
Anyway, during this period, we already have samples from Estonia, Latvia and Ukraine. So let's see what the results are like for the current Balts and Slavs.
Interestingly, the correlation to Scythian samples is much higher than to Baltic ones. However, it is worth remembering that these Scythians are local populations, derived from the same populations.

Distance to: Belarusian
0.03010288 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA:UKR116 __BC_645__Cov_46.54%
0.04064186 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 4__BC_650__Cov_36.39%
0.04197999 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I12106__BC_664__Cov_55.91%
0.04226400 Hungary_EIA_o3:I25525__BC_600__Cov_68.20%
0.04237368 Montenegro_IA:I13170_v54.1_addback__BC_600__Cov_66 .37%
0.04531342 Ukraine_Scythian.SG:scy009_noUDG.SG__BC_618__Cov_6 9.53%
0.04586983 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR03 5AB__BC_650__Cov_81.80%
0.04664364 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I11719__BC_626__Cov_54.31%
0.04868907 Italy_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_3:I10943__BC_640__Cov_5 9.11%
0.05173498 Ukraine_Scythian:MJ14__BC_643__Cov_8.13%
0.05175684 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
0.06097758 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 2__BC_660__Cov_16.42%
0.06273493 Estonia_IA.SG:s19_V10_2_noUDG.SG__BC_623__Cov_23.8 6%
0.06392835 Latvia_BA:Kivutkalns42__BC_747__Cov_51.35%
0.06411438 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16326__BC_675__Cov_42.35%
0.06486556 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 3__BC_650__Cov_32.42%
0.06882132 Latvia_BA:Kivutkalns25__BC_687__Cov_59.86%
0.06976736 Latvia_BA:Kivutkalns215__BC_609__Cov_74.70%
0.07296201 Latvia_BA:Kivutkalns153__BC_683__Cov_21.49%
0.07372688 Estonia_BA.SG:s19_X14_1_noUDG.SG__BC_630__Cov_18.5 4%
0.07423099 Ukraine_Scythian.SG:scy010_noUDG.SG__BC_656__Cov_2 7.35%
0.07509131 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16088__BC_643__Cov_34.39%
0.07537624 Estonia_IA.SG:s19_0LS10_1_noUDG.SG__BC_659__Cov_20 .33%
0.07761848 Latvia_BA:Kivutkalns209__BC_666__Cov_70.92%
0.07784228 England_EIA:I19861__BC_647__Cov_58.85%

Target: Belarusian
Distance: 1.4911% / 0.01491086 | ADC: 0.5x RC
32.6 Latvia_BA
28.4 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA
11.6 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA
11.0 Ukraine_Scythian
10.6 Montenegro_IA
5.8 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA

Target: PolishL_Mazovia1
Distance: 2.1831% / 0.02183088 | ADC: 0.5x RC
41.4 Ukraine_Scythian
34.8 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA
10.0 Ukraine_Srubnaya_MLBA
8.6 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA
5.2 Netherlands_EIA_low_res

Target: Ukrainian_Rivne
Distance: 1.5658% / 0.01565758 | ADC: 0.5x RC
30.4 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA
26.2 Montenegro_IA
17.2 Latvia_BA
14.0 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA
12.2 Ukraine_Scythian

Target: Lithuanian
Distance: 1.7625% / 0.01762506 | ADC: 0.5x RC
39.6 Latvia_BA
28.4 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA
19.4 Ukraine_Scythian.SG
12.6 Ukraine_Scythian

Target: Latvian
Distance: 1.3321% / 0.01332064 | ADC: 0.5x RC
35.4 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA
33.8 Latvia_BA
15.0 Italy_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_3
8.4 Estonia_IA.SG
7.4 Estonia_BA.SG

We already know sample Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2, so let's take a look at who the second popular Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3 was.

before 800BC
Target: Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA:UKR116 __BC_645__Cov_46.54%
Distance: 2.1171% / 0.02117063 | ADC: 0.5x RC
56.6 Lithuania_BA
22.6 Ukraine_Volyn_Lusatian_EIA
10.8 Ukraine_VertebaCave_BellBeaker
7.6 Armenia_LBA.SG
1.4 Hungary_LBA
1.0 England_LBA

between 1600-1400BC
Target: Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA:UKR116 __BC_645__Cov_46.54%
Distance: 1.8097% / 0.01809730
76.6 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA
15.8 Ukraine_Komarów_MBA
7.0 Armenia_MBA_o
0.6 Greece_Crete_LBA

Here we can speculate with high probability that Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2 was a Slav with a slight Caucasian admixture.

To be sure, let's check what Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR03 5AB looked like between 1000-800BC

Target: Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR03 5AB__BC_650__Cov_81.80%
Distance: 1.1059% / 0.01105906
27.8 Estonia_BA.SG
16.0 France_GrandEst_LBA.SG
12.4 Lithuania_BA
11.4 Czechia_LBA_Knoviz
10.4 England_LBA
7.8 Armenia_Bagheri_Tchala_EIA
6.4 Macedonia_IA
5.0 Italy_Sicily_IA
1.4 Ukraine_Odesa_ThracianHallstatt_2_EIA
0.8 China_Henan_Western_Zhou_Dynasty
0.6 France_GrandEst_LBA

between 1600-1400BC

Target: Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR03 5AB__BC_650__Cov_81.80%
Distance: 1.1208% / 0.01120830
71.0 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA
24.8 Greece_BA_Mycenaean
1.8 Spain_EBA
0.8 China_WLR_LN_o
0.8 Greece_Crete_LBA
0.8 Ukraine_Komarów_MBA

and between 2600-2400 BC
Target: Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR03 5AB__BC_650__Cov_81.80%
Distance: 1.9953% / 0.01995263
27.2 Poland_CordedWare_1.SG
26.8 Hungary_EBA_BellBeaker
19.0 Russia_Fatyanovo_Yaroslavl_BA
13.6 Greece_Perachora_BA
5.6 Russia_Fatyanovo_Ivanovo_BA
3.8 Moldova_MBA_Catacomb
2.8 Sweden_Vasterbjers_PWC_BAC
0.8 China_SEastAsia_Coastal_LN
0.4 Ethiopia_4500BP

If I were to speculate, I would say that it is a local type from Central Europe that absorbed local elements somewhere in Greek colonies on the Black Sea coast. He does not correlate much with Central Asia.

It is worth noting that the Lusatian Culture probably disappeared as a result of the Scythian invasion. The stronghold in Biskupin was deserted with no traces of corpses, but Scythian arrowheads were found.

Earlier periods >
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?389693-2800BC-2600BC-model-CW-differentiation-period
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?389690-2600BC-2400BC-model-the-birth-of-BB
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?389662-2400BC-2200BC-model
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?389604-2200BC-2000BC-model
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?389588-2000BC-1800BC-model
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?389858-1800BC-1600BC-model-late-%DAn%26%23283%3Btice
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?389868-1600BC-1400BC-model-MBA
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?389870-1400BC-1200BC-model-Tollense-battle
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?389898-1200BC-1000BC-model-LBA
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?389915-1000BC-800BC-model-Urnfield-horizon

Qemetiel

11-04-2024, 03:31 PM

Distance: 0.5721% / 0.00572055 | ADC: 0.25x RC
23.2 Slovenia_EIA
21.6 England_EIA
15.8 England_EIA_low_res
10.0 Netherlands_EIA_low_res
9.0 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug
5.8 England_Derbyshire_IA.SG
4.6 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt_low_res
3.6 Hungary_EIA_o3
3.2 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA
3.2 Ukraine_Srubnaya_MLBA

Distance: 0.7877% / 0.00787723 | ADC: 0.5x RC
36.8 England_EIA
28.2 Slovenia_EIA
9.2 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug
9.0 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt_low_res
6.8 England_EIA_low_res
5.2 Netherlands_EIA_low_res
4.8 Ukraine_Srubnaya_MLBA

celticdragongod

11-04-2024, 03:36 PM

Distance to: CDG_scaled
0.03326825 England_EIA:I17260__BC_600__Cov_57.29%
0.03403322 England_EIA:I13682__BC_662__Cov_63.26%
0.03445602 England_EIA:I13688__BC_639__Cov_58.09%
0.03574830 England_EIA:I27382__BC_642__Cov_73.86%
0.03623213 Slovenia_EIA:I5690__BC_624__Cov_82.13%
0.03793471 England_EIA:I16618__BC_654__Cov_36.01%
0.03888540 England_EIA:I19862__BC_621__Cov_57.07%
0.03902530 England_EIA:I19287__BC_620__Cov_38.19%
0.04155568 England_EIA:C10462__BC_750__Cov_31.38%
0.04210434 England_EIA:I12783__BC_649__Cov_61.15%
0.04380158 England_EIA:I19861__BC_647__Cov_58.85%
0.04500766 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16327__BC_642__Cov_42.02%
0.04502550 England_EIA:I19868__BC_629__Cov_49.59%
0.04554829 England_EIA_low_res:I16617__BC_641__Cov_7.16%
0.04805694 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I14983__BC_675__Cov_54.98%
0.04827486 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16088__BC_643__Cov_34.39%
0.04844206 England_EIA:I20585__BC_600__Cov_64.38%
0.04861635 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16326__BC_675__Cov_42.35%
0.05036455 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I12106__BC_664__Cov_55.91%
0.05043476 England_EIA_highEEF:I19867__BC_648__Cov_60.89%
0.05213826 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18211__BC_775__C ov_65.63%
0.05235287 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I15071__BC_675__Cov_27.87%
0.05273013 Germany_West-Hallstattkreis_EIA:MBG017__BC_616__Cov_73.49%
0.05282427 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt_low_res:I17607__BC_675__Cov_7 .99%
0.05485453 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I11719__BC_626__Cov_54.31%

Target: CDG_scaled
Distance: 1.6201% / 0.01620090
24.6 England_EIA:I27382__BC_642__Cov_73.86%
17.6 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt_low_res:I17607__BC_675__Cov_7 .99%
13.8 Slovenia_EIA:I5690__BC_624__Cov_82.13%
12.2 Netherlands_EIA_low_res:I12903__BC_650__Cov_6.55%
10.0 England_EIA_low_res:I14743_d__BC_644__Cov_5.63%
8.0 Germany_West-Hallstattkreis_EIA:MBG017__BC_616__Cov_73.49%
5.8 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I12106__BC_664__Cov_55.91%
5.8 England_EIA_low_res:I12610__BC_636__Cov_5.91%
2.2 Denmark_BA:RISE276__BC_662__Cov_7.87%

Target: CDG_scaled
Distance: 1.6349% / 0.01634895 | ADC: 0.25x RC
29.8 England_EIA:I27382__BC_642__Cov_73.86%
20.4 Slovenia_EIA:I5690__BC_624__Cov_82.13%
17.4 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt_low_res:I17607__BC_675__Cov_7 .99%
11.2 Netherlands_EIA_low_res:I12903__BC_650__Cov_6.55%
10.2 England_EIA_low_res:I14743_d__BC_644__Cov_5.63%
5.2 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I12106__BC_664__Cov_55.91%
3.2 England_EIA_low_res:I12610__BC_636__Cov_5.91%
2.6 Denmark_BA:RISE276__BC_662__Cov_7.87%

Target: CDG_scaled
Distance: 1.6496% / 0.01649615 | ADC: 0.5x RC
32.6 England_EIA:I27382__BC_642__Cov_73.86%
22.4 Slovenia_EIA:I5690__BC_624__Cov_82.13%
18.4 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt_low_res:I17607__BC_675__Cov_7 .99%
11.2 Netherlands_EIA_low_res:I12903__BC_650__Cov_6.55%
10.2 England_EIA_low_res:I14743_d__BC_644__Cov_5.63%
5.2 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I12106__BC_664__Cov_55.91%

Dušan

11-04-2024, 03:41 PM

Target: Dušan_scaled
Distance: 1.4808% / 0.01480778
36.6 Latvia_BA
22.8 Italy_Sicily_Himera_409BCE
12.0 Croatia_EIA
10.2 Turkey_Archaic_SubGeometric
6.4 Ukraine_Scythian
5.4 Macedonia_IA
2.4 Bulgaria_EIA
1.2 Estonia_BA.SG
0.6 China_WLR_BA_o
0.6 Italy_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1
0.6 Japan_Nagabaka_2800BP
0.6 Pakistan_Aligrama_IA
0.6 Vanuatu_2600BP

Target: Dušan_scaled
Distance: 1.6876% / 0.01687624 | R4P
46.2 Latvia_BA
38.0 Italy_Sicily_Himera_409BCE
13.8 Turkey_Archaic_SubGeometric
2.0 Japan_Nagabaka_2800BP

Target: Dušan_scaled
Distance: 1.8138% / 0.01813829 | R3P
51.2 Italy_Sicily_Himera_409BCE
44.4 Latvia_BA
4.4 China_Xinjiang_Songshugou_EIA

Demirkazık

11-04-2024, 03:49 PM

Target: Demir
Distance: 2.4311% / 0.02431130 | ADC: 0.5x RC
26.8 Turkey_IA_o4_noUDG
21.0 Iran_Hasanlu_IA
21.0 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_2_EIA
20.6 Kazakhstan_ZevakinoChilikta_IA_2.SG
10.6 Italy_IA_Republic_oEasternMediterranean.SG

Target: Demir
Distance: 2.2658% / 0.02265788 | R3P
36.8 Kazakhstan_Tasmola_EIA
36.4 Turkey_SE_Nevali_Cori_IA
26.8 Turkey_Archaic_SubGeometric

Target: Demir
Distance: 2.0375% / 0.02037507 | R4P
32.6 Lebanon_IA2.SG
29.2 Kazakhstan_Tasmola_EIA
28.0 Armenia_IA
10.2 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA

Target: Demir
Distance: 1.9288% / 0.01928768 | R5P
30.4 Kazakhstan_Tasmola_EIA
26.0 Armenia_IA
22.6 Lebanon_IA2.SG
15.0 Turkey_Aegean_Mugla_Degirmendere_Anc
6.0 Estonia_BA.SG

Certified Scythian here. :fhhorse:

cass

11-04-2024, 03:50 PM

Athalafuns

11-04-2024, 04:02 PM

Target: RNB27
Distance: 1.0737% / 0.01073671 | ADC: 0.25x RC
24.4 England_EIA
23.4 Spain_Greek_oLocal
15.0 Spain_EIA_Tartessian
12.2 Italy_Sardinia_IA_Punic_1
7.2 Turkey_SE_Nevali_Cori_IA
6.8 England_EIA_low_res
4.4 Croatia_EIA
2.4 Slovenia_EIA
1.4 England_EIA_highEEF
1.4 France_GrandEst_IA1.SG
1.4 Tanzania_PN

Target: RNB27
Distance: 1.5816% / 0.01581619 | ADC: 0.5x RC
28.4 Spain_Greek_oLocal
20.8 Croatia_EIA
13.8 England_EIA
13.4 France_GrandEst_IA1.SG
13.4 Slovenia_EIA
7.0 Italy_Sardinia_IA_Punic_1
2.8 Tanzania_PN
0.4 England_EIA_highEEF

Distance to: RNB27
0.03132520 Slovenia_EIA:I5691__BC_655__Cov_65.54%
0.03138243 Croatia_EIA:I5725__BC_604__Cov_54.17%
0.03413413 Slovenia_EIA:I5684__BC_672__Cov_85.74%
0.03511581 Slovenia_EIA:I5685__BC_672__Cov_87.26%
0.03626837 England_EIA_highEEF:I12774__BC_604__Cov_72.27%
0.03688824 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan:PRZ002__BC_629__Cov_6 2.56%
0.03695958 Slovenia_EIA:I23971__BC_672__Cov_48.58%
0.03912846 Spain_Greek_oLocal:I8209__BC_604__Cov_73.72%
0.03938226 Croatia_EIA:I23995__BC_779__Cov_68.95%
0.03994757 Slovenia_EIA:I5692__BC_743__Cov_76.57%
0.04111289 Italy_IA_Republic.SG:R474.SG__BC_650__Cov_73.44%
0.04112853 Slovenia_EIA:I5687__BC_672__Cov_90.09%
0.04149408 Slovenia_EIA:I5686__BC_672__Cov_75.24%
0.04198286 Germany_West-Hallstattkreis_EIA:MBG017__BC_616__Cov_73.49%
0.04222594 Croatia_EIA:I23904__BC_692__Cov_70.20%
0.04280451 Croatia_EIA:I24638__BC_708__Cov_67.73%
0.04284476 Slovenia_EIA:I22933__BC_672__Cov_26.83%
0.04338015 Slovenia_EIA:I22935__BC_672__Cov_56.88%
0.04424129 Croatia_EIA:I24882__BC_649__Cov_71.05%
0.04478841 Croatia_EIA:I24639__BC_708__Cov_68.44%
0.04553707 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan:CAM002__BC_639__Cov_6 5.71%
0.04611582 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18239__BC_775__C ov_66.49%
0.04646342 Spain_Navarra_EIA:CRU013_ss.A0101__BC_600__Cov_52. 91%
0.04694000 Croatia_LBA_EIA:I26742__BC_700__Cov_80.45%
0.04712612 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18213__BC_775__C ov_65.63%

cass

11-04-2024, 04:04 PM

ScandinavianCelt

11-04-2024, 05:33 PM

Target: SC_Official_AVE_Scaled
Distance: 1.6045% / 0.01604501 | R5P
59.8 England_EIA
13.6 Ukraine_Scythian
13.0 Ukraine_Srubnaya_MLBA
7.6 France_GrandEst_IA
6.0 Kazakhstan_Sarmatian_IA

More Scythian with 23andMe:

Target: SC_Official_23andMe_Scaled
Distance: 1.9745% / 0.01974523 | R5P
53.8 England_EIA
17.2 Ukraine_Scythian
16.0 Ukraine_Srubnaya_MLBA
9.0 France_GrandEst_IA
4.0 Kazakhstan_Sarmatian_IA

How my Scythian sample scores on BA calc by Davide:

Target: Ukraine_Scythian:MJ14__BC_643__Cov_8.13%
Distance: 4.1642% / 0.04164206 | ADC: 0.25x RC
48.8 Baltic_BA
13.6 HUN_BA
12.2 Dinaric_BA
8.0 Unetice
7.0 UZB_Dzharkutan2_BA
6.2 Levant_BA
2.4 Armenia_BA
1.8 Jarawa

Target: Ukraine_Scythian:MJ14__BC_643__Cov_8.13%
Distance: 5.9838% / 0.05983794 | ADC: 2x RC
100.0 HUN_BA

ScandinavianCelt

11-04-2024, 05:50 PM

cass

11-04-2024, 06:26 PM

@cass

I think 23andMe is my more accurate data set for most calcs:

Target: SC_Official_23andMe_Scaled
Distance: 2.5426% / 0.02542571 | ADC: 1x RC
33.2 England_EIA:I13682__BC_662__Cov_63.26%
27.8 England_EIA:I13688__BC_639__Cov_58.09%
23.2 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
15.8 England_EIA:I19861__BC_647__Cov_58.85%

Target: SC_Official_23andMe_Scaled
Distance: 2.0720% / 0.02072005 | ADC: 0.5x RC
34.6 England_EIA:I13688__BC_639__Cov_58.09%
26.8 England_EIA:I19861__BC_647__Cov_58.85%
15.6 Ukraine_Scythian:MJ14__BC_643__Cov_8.13%
14.0 Ukraine_Srubnaya_MLBA:MJ08__BC_637__Cov_8.31%
9.0 England_EIA:I13682__BC_662__Cov_63.26%

Target: SC_Official_23andMe_Scaled
Distance: 1.9727% / 0.01972737 | ADC: 0.25x RC
21.0 England_EIA:I19861__BC_647__Cov_58.85%
20.8 England_EIA:I13688__BC_639__Cov_58.09%
16.4 Ukraine_Scythian:MJ14__BC_643__Cov_8.13%
16.4 Ukraine_Srubnaya_MLBA:MJ08__BC_637__Cov_8.31%
10.4 England_EIA:I19862__BC_621__Cov_57.07%
7.6 France_GrandEst_IA:Croi12-2__BC_675__Cov_9.03%
5.6 England_EIA:I13682__BC_662__Cov_63.26%
1.0 Moldova_IA:I20071__BC_799__Cov_28.49%
0.8 Pakistan_Aligrama_IA:I6888__BC_797__Cov_59.53%

--------------------------

Target: Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
Distance: 3.5587% / 0.03558656 | ADC: 2x RC
54.2 HUN_BA
45.8 Unetice

It was a very interesting population, one that was completely extinct.

Distance to: Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
0.03130665 Slovak
0.03208854 German_West_Prussia
0.03225035 Hungarian
0.03269300 Ukrainian_Ivano-Frankivsk
0.03320831 German_Lower_Silesia
0.03347809 German_Thuringia
0.03353592 PL_50°15′N_19°01′E_Silesian
0.03353592 PL_50°15′N_19°01′E_Silesian_simulated
0.03419207 Czech
0.03436039 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.03502094 cass
0.03507522 German_Saxony_Erzgebirgskreis
0.03510976 German_Brandenburg
0.03513104 German_North_Bohemia
0.03521472 Ukrainian_Cherkasy
0.03530035 German_East
0.03535955 German_Pomerania
0.03601792 Moldovan_o1
0.03606106 Polisholish_East
0.03628701 German_Saxony-Anhalt
0.03651584 German_Schleswig-Holstein_o
0.03686248 PolishL_Kuyavia1
0.03686248 PL_52°37′N_18°10′E_Kuyavia
0.03705678 PolishL_Kociewie1_scaled
0.03705678 PL_53°48′N_18°17′E_Kociewie

Target: Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
Distance: 1.2464% / 0.01246354 | ADC: 0.5x RC
25.8 Flemish_Nord
24.8 PL_52°37′N_18°10′E_Kuyavia
20.2 Cossack_Kuban
16.6 Slovak
10.2 Tatar_Crimean_Steppe
2.4 French_Occitan_Provence-Alpes-Cote_d'Azur_o

ScandinavianCelt

11-04-2024, 07:15 PM

It was a very interesting population, one that was completely extinct.

Distance to: Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
0.03130665 Slovak
0.03208854 German_West_Prussia
0.03225035 Hungarian
0.03269300 Ukrainian_Ivano-Frankivsk
0.03320831 German_Lower_Silesia
0.03347809 German_Thuringia
0.03353592 PL_50°15′N_19°01′E_Silesian
0.03353592 PL_50°15′N_19°01′E_Silesian_simulated
0.03419207 Czech
0.03436039 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.03502094 cass
0.03507522 German_Saxony_Erzgebirgskreis
0.03510976 German_Brandenburg
0.03513104 German_North_Bohemia
0.03521472 Ukrainian_Cherkasy
0.03530035 German_East
0.03535955 German_Pomerania
0.03601792 Moldovan_o1
0.03606106 Polisholish_East
0.03628701 German_Saxony-Anhalt
0.03651584 German_Schleswig-Holstein_o
0.03686248 PolishL_Kuyavia1
0.03686248 PL_52°37′N_18°10′E_Kuyavia
0.03705678 PolishL_Kociewie1_scaled
0.03705678 PL_53°48′N_18°17′E_Kociewie

Target: Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
Distance: 1.2464% / 0.01246354 | ADC: 0.5x RC
25.8 Flemish_Nord
24.8 PL_52°37′N_18°10′E_Kuyavia
20.2 Cossack_Kuban
16.6 Slovak
10.2 Tatar_Crimean_Steppe
2.4 French_Occitan_Provence-Alpes-Cote_d'Azur_o

Distance to: SC_Official_AVE_Scaled
0.04535291 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 3__BC_650__Cov_32.42%
0.04604804 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
0.05220642 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR03 5AB__BC_650__Cov_81.80%
0.05304255 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 2__BC_660__Cov_16.42%
0.05528060 Ukraine_Scythian.SG:scy010_noUDG.SG__BC_656__Cov_2 7.35%
0.05797355 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 4__BC_650__Cov_36.39%
0.05903037 Ukraine_Scythian.SG:scy009_noUDG.SG__BC_618__Cov_6 9.53%
0.06043870 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_EIA:UKR113__BC _600__Cov_52.93%
0.06301517 Ukraine_Poltava_Scythian_LeftDnipro_LocEl_EIA:UKR0 87__BC_625__Cov_34.38%
0.07214130 Ukraine_Scythian:MJ14__BC_643__Cov_8.13%
0.07349171 Hungary_IA_Scythian_oAegean.SG:DA195_noUDG.SG__BC_ 622__Cov_47.30%
0.07372985 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA:UKR116 __BC_645__Cov_46.54%
0.10586143 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_2_EIA:UKR 036__BC_600__Cov_54.88%
0.11705898 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_EIA:UKR105__BC _675__Cov_48.35%
0.23149681 Russia_EasternScythian_SouthernUrals.SG:MJ-42_noUDG.SG__BC_654__Cov_28.59%

With just the above samples I get this:

Target: SC_Official_AVE_Scaled
Distance: 4.2318% / 0.04231787 | ADC: 2x RC
52.6 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 3__BC_650__Cov_32.42%
47.4 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%

Target: SC_Official_AVE_Scaled
Distance: 3.3420% / 0.03341974
38.4 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 2__BC_660__Cov_16.42%
37.8 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_EIA:UKR113__BC _600__Cov_52.93%
12.8 Ukraine_Scythian.SG:scy009_noUDG.SG__BC_618__Cov_6 9.53%
11.0 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 3__BC_650__Cov_32.42%

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kyiv is not there at 1x, but Kharkiv is, with both data sets, but 2x is all England_EIA:

Target: SC_Official_23andMe_Scaled
Distance: 2.5426% / 0.02542571 | ADC: 1x RC
33.2 England_EIA:I13682__BC_662__Cov_63.26%
27.8 England_EIA:I13688__BC_639__Cov_58.09%
23.2 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
15.8 England_EIA:I19861__BC_647__Cov_58.85%

Target: SC_Official_Ancestry#2_Scaled
Distance: 1.7326% / 0.01732645 | ADC: 1x RC
42.8 England_EIA:I13682__BC_662__Cov_63.26%
36.2 England_EIA:I13688__BC_639__Cov_58.09%
21.0 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%

Ritz06

11-04-2024, 07:21 PM

Target:
Distance: 1.6325% / 0.01632457 | ADC: 0.5x RC
25.8 Armenia_LBA_EIA
24.6 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_2_EIA
20.0 Croatia_EIA
15.2 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_EIA
14.4 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan

ScandinavianCelt

11-04-2024, 07:45 PM

@cass

https://i.postimg.cc/pVhKt4GR/SCYTHIAN-800-TO600-BC-SCALEDAVE-FULL22-CHR-BRAD.jpg (https://postimg.cc/qgrNsbH5)

cass

11-04-2024, 07:53 PM

@cass

https://i.postimg.cc/pVhKt4GR/SCYTHIAN-800-TO600-BC-SCALEDAVE-FULL22-CHR-BRAD.jpg (https://postimg.cc/qgrNsbH5)

:thumb001:
And what kind of tool is it?

ScandinavianCelt

11-04-2024, 08:32 PM

:thumb001:
And what kind of tool is it?

I just copied the multi results for the 22 chromosomes using the tsv version into an Excel spreadsheet and then highlighted the portion to transpose the chromosomes horizontally and then the results the opposite from horizontal to vertical and then you highlight all of that and create a chart so it says insert tab then chart and then you can pick the kind of chart you want and you can mess with it I've been making these things for years with different results and I find it much more appealing visually to understand various groups like I've shown you before a Slavic result based on one of the calculators that I made I can't even remember which one

My question for you is is it possible that these people went to Finland or did the Eastern genetics from the Yamnaya only correlate to other time. I wanted to post something I wanted to make a thread to see people's distances to a few different things sometimes it's just distances that could reveal proximity compared to the West for example the more Western a person is I think they'll have a further distance from Eurasian milk drinkers I don't think people in Spain have a very close Eurasian but the people with the furthest seem to be the people from Sardinia one of the guys I think for anything related to Eurasian Steppe

cass

11-04-2024, 08:47 PM

I just copied the multi results for the 22 chromosomes using the tsv version into an Excel spreadsheet and then highlighted the portion to transpose the chromosomes horizontally and then the results the opposite from horizontal to vertical and then you highlight all of that and create a chart so it says insert tab then chart and then you can pick the kind of chart you want and you can mess with it I've been making these things for years with different results and I find it much more appealing visually to understand various groups like I've shown you before a Slavic result based on one of the calculators that I made I can't even remember which one

My question for you is is it possible that these people went to Finland or did the Eastern genetics from the Yamnaya only correlate to other time. I wanted to post something I wanted to make a thread to see people's distances to a few different things sometimes it's just distances that could reveal proximity compared to the West for example the more Western a person is I think they'll have a further distance from Eurasian milk drinkers I don't think people in Spain have a very close Eurasian but the people with the furthest seem to be the people from Sardinia one of the guys I think for anything related to Eurasian Steppe

:thumb001:

I've never heard of them traveling this far. There may be two explanations. Either the Proto-Germanics did not live in Scandinavia at that time, but on the continent and could have come into contact with the Scythians, or this similarity was only illusory due to the lack of samples from the area of Northern Germany proper.

cass

11-04-2024, 09:12 PM

@ ScandinavianCelt

After thinking and checking again, I have another idea. There were no Proper Finns in Finland at that time. They met a faction of Scythians somewhere further sout-east.

https://i.ibb.co/k6Ts2fZ/Zrzut-ekranu-4-11-2024-23553-vahaduo-github-io.jpg (https://ibb.co/x8btq0Z)

Note the differences between the Finnish groups and the Sami and Karelian groups.

This is just a hypothesis. Until we have some 100% samples from the Scandinavian area.

I'm not a specialist in the history of Finalnd, so I checked and added the following.

The Sami are the descendants of nomadic peoples who had inhabited northern Scandinavia for thousands of years. When the Finns entered Finland, beginning about ad 100, Sami settlements were probably dispersed over the whole of that country; today they are confined to its northern extremity. In Sweden and Norway they have similarly been pushed north. The origin of the Sami is obscure; some scholars include them among the Paleo-Siberian peoples; others maintain that they were alpine and came from central Europe.

source: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Sami

ScandinavianCelt

11-04-2024, 10:55 PM

ScandinavianCelt

11-04-2024, 10:56 PM

@ ScandinavianCelt

After thinking and checking again, I have another idea. There were no Proper Finns in Finland at that time. They met a faction of Scythians somewhere further sout-east.

https://i.ibb.co/k6Ts2fZ/Zrzut-ekranu-4-11-2024-23553-vahaduo-github-io.jpg (https://ibb.co/x8btq0Z)

Note the differences between the Finnish groups and the Sami and Karelian groups.

This is just a hypothesis. Until we have some 100% samples from the Scandinavian area.

I'm not a specialist in the history of Finalnd, so I checked and added the following.

source: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Sami

My chromosome number 21 always seems to show up on ancient tests as Syrian and then half of chromosome 9 and then I saw other pieces here and there in the past but this specific time period seems to show a lot thanks for making it it's a good test

Gallop

11-04-2024, 11:00 PM

Target: Gallop_scaled
Distance: 1.5401% / 0.01540051 | ADC: 0.5x RC
24.0 France_GrandEst_IA1.SG
21.2 Spain_EIA_Tartessian
19.2 Spain_Greek_oLocal
15.0 Italy_Tuscany_Grosseto_Etruscan
9.0 Spain_Navarra_EIA
7.2 Armenia_EIA_o2
3.4 Tanzania_PN
0.8 Slovenia_EIA
0.2 Italy_IA_Republic_oEasternMediterranean_o.SG

Target: Gallop_scaled
Distance: 2.8285% / 0.02828462 | ADC: 1x RC
30.8 Slovenia_EIA
30.8 Spain_Navarra_EIA
20.6 France_GrandEst_IA1.SG
17.8 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan

Target: Gallop_scaled
Distance: 3.4424% / 0.03442390 | ADC: 2x RC
55.2 Slovenia_EIA
44.8 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 2.1678% / 0.02167761 | ADC: 0.5x RC
32.2 France_GrandEst_IA1.SG
24.8 Croatia_EIA
18.2 Spain_IA
17.0 Italy_Sardinia_IA_Punic_1
4.8 Slovenia_EIA
1.8 Spain_EIA_Tartessian
1.2 Italy_Tuscany_Grosseto_Etruscan

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 3.3876% / 0.03387597 | ADC: 2x RC
54.2 Croatia_EIA
45.8 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 3.3281% / 0.03328150 | ADC: 1x RC
43.0 Croatia_EIA
35.0 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan
22.0 Slovenia_EIA

Target: brother_scaled
Distance: 1.7820% / 0.01781994 | ADC: 0.5x RC
27.2 France_GrandEst_IA1.SG
25.2 Croatia_EIA
24.8 Italy_IA_Republic_oEasternMediterranean_o.SG
22.8 Spain_EIA_Tartessian

Target: brother_scaled
Distance: 2.8584% / 0.02858362 | ADC: 1x RC
45.4 Spain_Navarra_EIA
44.4 Slovenia_EIA
6.8 Croatia_EIA
3.4 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan

Target: brother_scaled
Distance: 3.2556% / 0.03255622 | ADC: 2x RC
38.8 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan
32.0 Croatia_EIA
29.2 Slovenia_EIA

Distance to: Gallop_scaled
0.03541900 Slovenia_EIA:I5691__BC_655__Cov_65.54%
0.03655804 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan:PRZ002__BC_629__Cov_6 2.56%
0.03761982 England_EIA_highEEF:I12774__BC_604__Cov_72.27%
0.03885532 Croatia_EIA:I5725__BC_604__Cov_54.17%
0.04042997 Slovenia_EIA:I5684__BC_672__Cov_85.74%
0.04157204 Spain_Navarra_EIA:CRU013_ss.A0101__BC_600__Cov_52. 91%
0.04190063 Slovenia_EIA:I23971__BC_672__Cov_48.58%
0.04217591 Spain_Greek_oLocal:I8209__BC_604__Cov_73.72%
0.04229368 Slovenia_EIA:I5685__BC_672__Cov_87.26%
0.04333384 Slovenia_EIA:I5692__BC_743__Cov_76.57%
0.04377778 Slovenia_EIA:I5687__BC_672__Cov_90.09%
0.04458262 Spain_Navarra_EIA:CRU024_ss.A0101__BC_664__Cov_36. 67%
0.04530513 Slovenia_EIA:I22933__BC_672__Cov_26.83%
0.04647739 Spain_Navarra_EIA:ERE004_ss.A0101__BC_783__Cov_25. 41%
0.04662433 Croatia_EIA:I23995__BC_779__Cov_68.95%
0.04733064 Slovenia_EIA:I22935__BC_672__Cov_56.88%
0.04737213 Italy_Tuscany_Grosseto_Etruscan:MAG001__BC_667__Co v_47.19%
0.04757291 Slovenia_EIA:I5686__BC_672__Cov_75.24%
0.04774303 Croatia_EIA:I24638__BC_708__Cov_67.73%
0.04780485 Italy_IA_Republic.SG:R474.SG__BC_650__Cov_73.44%
0.04839764 Germany_West-Hallstattkreis_EIA:MBG017__BC_616__Cov_73.49%
0.04893286 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan:CAM002__BC_639__Cov_6 5.71%
0.04941303 Slovenia_EIA:I5693__BC_724__Cov_76.66%
0.04944392 France_GrandEst_IA1.SG:NOR3-15.SG__BC_750__Cov_11.07%
0.04987176 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan:CAM001__BC_647__Cov_7 7.44%

Distance to: Father_scaled
0.03738707 Croatia_EIA:I5725__BC_604__Cov_54.17%
0.03870206 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan:PRZ002__BC_629__Cov_6 2.56%
0.04012702 Slovenia_EIA:I5684__BC_672__Cov_85.74%
0.04027332 Slovenia_EIA:I5691__BC_655__Cov_65.54%
0.04111849 Slovenia_EIA:I5685__BC_672__Cov_87.26%
0.04184963 England_EIA_highEEF:I12774__BC_604__Cov_72.27%
0.04206513 Slovenia_EIA:I23971__BC_672__Cov_48.58%
0.04367724 Slovenia_EIA:I5687__BC_672__Cov_90.09%
0.04500979 Slovenia_EIA:I5692__BC_743__Cov_76.57%
0.04641658 Slovenia_EIA:I22933__BC_672__Cov_26.83%
0.04688725 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18239__BC_775__C ov_66.49%
0.04743906 Italy_IA_Republic.SG:R474.SG__BC_650__Cov_73.44%
0.04785244 Slovenia_EIA:I5686__BC_672__Cov_75.24%
0.04795712 Spain_Navarra_EIA:ERE004_ss.A0101__BC_783__Cov_25. 41%
0.04805179 Slovenia_EIA:I22935__BC_672__Cov_56.88%
0.04813374 Croatia_EIA:I23995__BC_779__Cov_68.95%
0.04823187 Spain_Greek_oLocal:I8209__BC_604__Cov_73.72%
0.04882855 Italy_Tuscany_Grosseto_Etruscan:MAG001__BC_667__Co v_47.19%
0.04888878 Spain_Navarra_EIA:CRU013_ss.A0101__BC_600__Cov_52. 91%
0.04941716 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I14980__BC_675__Cov_67.52%
0.05046458 Croatia_EIA:I23904__BC_692__Cov_70.20%
0.05114193 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18246__BC_775__C ov_67.64%
0.05125126 Germany_West-Hallstattkreis_EIA:MBG017__BC_616__Cov_73.49%
0.05195578 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan:CAM002__BC_639__Cov_6 5.71%
0.05217416 Spain_Navarra_EIA:CRU024_ss.A0101__BC_664__Cov_36. 67%

Distance to: brother_scaled
0.03731999 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan:PRZ002__BC_629__Cov_6 2.56%
0.03829265 Croatia_EIA:I5725__BC_604__Cov_54.17%
0.03840225 Slovenia_EIA:I5684__BC_672__Cov_85.74%
0.03956617 Slovenia_EIA:I5685__BC_672__Cov_87.26%
0.04083970 Slovenia_EIA:I5687__BC_672__Cov_90.09%
0.04090944 Slovenia_EIA:I5691__BC_655__Cov_65.54%
0.04129711 Slovenia_EIA:I23971__BC_672__Cov_48.58%
0.04171947 Spain_Navarra_EIA:ERE004_ss.A0101__BC_783__Cov_25. 41%
0.04238817 England_EIA_highEEF:I12774__BC_604__Cov_72.27%
0.04293424 Spain_Navarra_EIA:CRU013_ss.A0101__BC_600__Cov_52. 91%
0.04472701 Slovenia_EIA:I5692__BC_743__Cov_76.57%
0.04541216 Slovenia_EIA:I22935__BC_672__Cov_56.88%
0.04591088 Spain_Navarra_EIA:CRU024_ss.A0101__BC_664__Cov_36. 67%
0.04646569 Italy_Tuscany_Grosseto_Etruscan:MAG001__BC_667__Co v_47.19%
0.04683243 Croatia_EIA:I23995__BC_779__Cov_68.95%
0.04706591 Slovenia_EIA:I5686__BC_672__Cov_75.24%
0.04743701 Slovenia_EIA:I22933__BC_672__Cov_26.83%
0.04810965 Italy_IA_Republic.SG:R474.SG__BC_650__Cov_73.44%
0.04816864 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan:CAM001__BC_647__Cov_7 7.44%
0.04833683 Spain_Greek_oLocal:I8209__BC_604__Cov_73.72%
0.04902791 Italy_IA_Republic.SG:R851.SG__BC_650__Cov_53.04%
0.05034273 Spain_EIA_Tartessian:I12171__BC_658__Cov_31.63%
0.05038437 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I14980__BC_675__Cov_67.52%
0.05069158 Italy_TarquiniaMonterozzi_IA.SG:R10344.SG__BC_642_ _Cov_42.43%
0.05071377 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18239__BC_775__C ov_66.49%

Fabricius

11-04-2024, 11:10 PM

Target: Fabricius_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 1.9770% / 0.01977049 | ADC: 0.5x RC
23.4 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat
20.4 Croatia_EIA
16.0 England_EIA
15.0 Ukraine_Poltava_Scythian_LeftDnipro_LocEl_EIA
12.0 Tunisia_Punic_oAfrica1.SG
6.6 Kenya_Pastoral_N_o
6.6 Russia_Koban_EIA_o

Target: Fabricius_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 1.7038% / 0.01703830 | ADC: 0.25x RC
21.8 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat
15.6 England_EIA
11.8 Italy_Ordona_Daunian.SG
10.8 Tunisia_Punic_oAfrica1.SG
7.8 Germany_West-Hallstattkreis_EIA
7.6 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_2_EIA
7.2 Kenya_Pastoral_N_o
6.4 Macedonia_IA
5.6 Ukraine_Poltava_Scythian_LeftDnipro_LocEl_EIA
4.4 Spain_Navarra_EIA
1.0 Hungary_IA_Scythian_oAegean.SG

Target: Fabricius_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 1.2268% / 0.01226774
21.4 Macedonia_IA
20.2 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA
15.4 Italy_Ordona_Daunian.SG
12.6 Tunisia_Punic_oAfrica1.SG
8.8 England_EIA_low_res
7.4 Tanzania_PN
4.8 Denmark_BA
3.2 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt
3.0 Spain_Navarra_EIA
1.0 Italy_Tuscany_Grosseto_Etruscan
1.0 Slovenia_EIA
0.4 Armenia_IA
0.4 China_Shigatse_2600BP
0.4 Cuba_CuevaPerico_Archaic

Distance to: Fabricius_simulated_g25_scaled
0.06057626 Croatia_EIA:I5725__BC_604__Cov_54.17%
0.06477278 Slovenia_EIA:I5684__BC_672__Cov_85.74%
0.06715160 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18246__BC_775__C ov_67.64%
0.06743714 Slovenia_EIA:I23971__BC_672__Cov_48.58%
0.06811116 Hungary_IA_Scythian_oAegean.SG:DA195_noUDG.SG__BC_ 622__Cov_47.30%
0.06865213 Croatia_EIA:I23995__BC_779__Cov_68.95%
0.06885716 Croatia_EIA:I23904__BC_692__Cov_70.20%
0.06926095 Spain_Navarra_EIA:ERE004_ss.A0101__BC_783__Cov_25. 41%
0.06973983 Croatia_EIA:I24639__BC_708__Cov_68.44%
0.07021511 Ukraine_Poltava_Scythian_LeftDnipro_LocEl_EIA:UKR0 87__BC_625__Cov_34.38%

cass

11-04-2024, 11:18 PM

@ScandinavianCelt

It is worth recalling Herodotus, who described the situation north of the Scythians. These Androphagi with their "peculiar language" really look like Finns to me.
As for the Neuri, due to the mention of werewolves, it can be assumed that Herodotus wrote about the Slavs.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_History_of_Herodotus_(Rawlinson)/Book_4

Beyond this tract, we find the Scythians again in possession of the country above the Tauri and the parts bordering on the eastern sea, as also of the whole district lying west of the Cimmerian Bosphorus and the Palus Maeotis, as far as the river Tanais, which empties itself into that lake at its upper end. As for the inland boundaries of Scythia, if we start from the Ister, we find it enclosed by the following tribes, first the Agathyrsi, next the Neuri, then the Androphagi, and last of all, the Melanchaeni.

Scythia then, which is square in shape, and has two of its sides reaching down to the sea, extends inland to the same distance that it stretches along the coast, and is equal every way. For it is a ten days' journey from the Ister to the Borysthenes, and ten more from the Borysthenes to the Palus Maeotis, while the distance from the coast inland to the country of the Melanchaeni, who dwell above Scythia, is a journey of twenty days. I reckon the day's journey at two hundred furlongs. Thus the two sides which run straight inland are four thousand furlongs each, and the transverse sides at right angles to these are also of the same length, which gives the full size of Scythia.

The Scythians, reflecting on their situation, perceived that they were not strong enough by themselves to contend with the army of Darius in open fight. They, therefore, sent envoys to the neighbouring nations, whose kings had already met, and were in consultation upon the advance of so vast a host. Now they who had come together were the kings of the Tauri, the Agathyrsi, the Neuri, the Androphagi, the Melanchaeni, the Geloni, the Budini, and the Sauromatae.

The Tauri have the following customs. They offer in sacrifice to the Virgin all shipwrecked persons, and all Greeks compelled to put into their ports by stress of weather. The mode of sacrifice is this. After the preparatory ceremonies, they strike the victim on the head with a club. Then, according to some accounts, they hurl the trunk from the precipice whereon the temple stands, and nail the head to a cross. Others grant that the head is treated in this way, but deny that the body is thrown down the cliff- on the contrary, they say, it is buried. The goddess to whom these sacrifices are offered the Tauri themselves declare to be Iphigenia the daughter of Agamemnon. When they take prisoners in war they treat them in the following way. The man who has taken a captive cuts off his head, and carrying it to his home, fixes it upon a tall pole, which he elevates above his house, most commonly over the chimney. The reason that the heads are set up so high, is (it is said) in order that the whole house may be under their protection. These people live entirely by war and plundering.

The Agathyrsi are a race of men very luxurious, and very fond of wearing gold on their persons. They have wives in common, that so they may be all brothers, and, as members of one family, may neither envy nor hate one another. In other respects their customs approach nearly to those of the Thracians.

The Neurian customs are like the Scythian. One generation before the attack of Darius they were driven from their land by a huge multitude of serpents which invaded them. Of these some were produced in their own country, while others, and those by far the greater number, came in from the deserts on the north. Suffering grievously beneath this scourge, they quitted their homes, and took refuge with the Budini. It seems that these people are conjurers: for both the Scythians and the Greeks who dwell in Scythia say that every Neurian once a year becomes a wolf for a few days, at the end of which time he is restored to his proper shape. Not that I believe this, but they constantly affirm it to be true, and are even ready to back their assertion with an oath.

The manners of the Androphagi are more savage than those of any other race. They neither observe justice, nor are governed, by any laws. They are nomads, and their dress is Scythian; but the language which they speak is peculiar to themselves. Unlike any other nation in these parts, they are cannibals.

The Melanchaeni wear, all of them, black cloaks, and from this derive the name which they bear. Their customs are Scythic.

The Budini are a large and powerful nation: they have all deep blue eyes, and bright red hair. There is a city in their territory, called Gelonus, which is surrounded with a lofty wall, thirty furlongs each way, built entirely of wood. All the houses in the place and all the temples are of the same material. Here are temples built in honour of the Grecian gods, and adorned after the Greek fashion with images, altars, and shrines, all in wood. There is even a festival, held every third year in honour of Bacchus, at which the natives fall into the Bacchic fury. For the fact is that the Geloni were anciently Greeks, who, being driven out of the factories along the coast, fled to the Budini and took up their abode with them. They still speak a language half Greek, half Scythian.

The Budini, however, do not speak the same language as the Geloni, nor is their mode of life the same. They are the aboriginal people of the country, and are nomads; unlike any of the neighbouring races, they eat lice. The Geloni on the contrary, are tillers of the soil, eat bread, have gardens, and both in shape and complexion are quite different from the Budini. The Greeks notwithstanding call these latter Geloni; but it is a mistake to give them the name. Their country is thickly planted with trees of all manner of kinds. In the very woodiest part is a broad deep lake, surrounded by marshy ground with reeds growing on it. Here otters are caught, and beavers, with another sort of animal which has a square face. With the skins of this last the natives border their capotes: and they also get from them a remedy, which is of virtue in diseases of the womb.

It is reported of the Sauromatae, that when the Greeks fought with the Amazons, whom the Scythians call Oior-pata or "man-slayers," as it may be rendered, Oior being Scythic for "man," and pata for "to slay"- It is reported, I say, that the Greeks after gaining the battle of the Thermodon, put to sea, taking with them on board three of their vessels all the Amazons whom they had made prisoners; and that these women upon the voyage rose up against the crews, and massacred them to a man. As however they were quite strange to ships, and did not know how to use either rudder, sails, or oars, they were carried, after the death of the men, where the winds and the waves listed. At last they reached the shores of the Palus Maeotis and came to a place called Cremni or "the Cliffs," which is in the country of the free Scythians. Here they went ashore, and proceeded by land towards the inhabited regions; the first herd of horses which they fell in with they seized, and mounting upon their backs, fell to plundering the Scythian territory.

cass

11-05-2024, 12:46 AM

If you can check your full chromosomes on the mdlp ancient k 18 World test you can do the nMonte 0x ADC and that's a good test to see how much Saami you might have

According to mdlp ancient k 18 World:
cass>Sami-Finnic 2.52
PolishKociewie>Sami-Finnic 2.70

How about you?

Added
From what I see, the Belgians have 5.06, the Estonians 8.32 and the British Kent 3.30

Finns 19.36, Swede 5.08, Russian South 2.58, Russian 6.62, Saami 74.31

Tacitus

11-05-2024, 12:49 AM

Target: Tacitus_G25sim
Distance: 2.7968% / 0.02796840 | ADC: 1x RC
45.2 Italy_IA_Republic_oEasternMediterranean.SG:R850.SG __BC_650__Cov_51.38%
36.6 Macedonia_IA:I10388__BC_708__Cov_67.44%
18.2 Italy_Sardinia_IA_Punic_2:MSR002__BC_724__Cov_31.2 9%

Target: Tacitus_G25sim
Distance: 3.3718% / 0.03371799 | ADC: 2x RC
54.2 Italy_IA_Republic_oEasternMediterranean.SG:R850.SG __BC_650__Cov_51.38%
45.8 Bulgaria_IA:I5769__BC_642__Cov_61.18%

Distance to: Tacitus_G25sim
0.04449180 Italy_IA_Republic_oEasternMediterranean.SG:R850.SG __BC_650__Cov_51.38%
0.04772065 Italy_Sardinia_IA_Punic_2:MSR002__BC_724__Cov_31.2 9%
0.04816706 Bulgaria_IA:I5769__BC_642__Cov_61.18%
0.05527526 Turkey_Archaic_SubGeometric:I20224__BC_615__Cov_69 .99%
0.05555834 Macedonia_IA:I10388__BC_708__Cov_67.44%
0.05631344 Turkey_IA_o4_noUDG:I4029_noUDG__BC_653__Cov_88.86%
0.05690132 Italy_Sicily_Himera_409BCE:I7224__BC_655__Cov_73.5 7%
0.05795967 Italy_Sicily_Himera_409BCE:I7223__BC_628__Cov_72.7 7%
0.05836347 Turkey_Archaic_SubGeometric:I20228__BC_615__Cov_54 .16%
0.05895209 Turkey_Archaic_SubGeometric:I20233__BC_615__Cov_69 .44%
0.06028884 Turkey_Archaic_SubGeometric:I20229__BC_615__Cov_73 .82%
0.06060112 Turkey_Archaic_SubGeometric:I20257__BC_615__Cov_70 .33%
0.06120736 Turkey_Aegean_Mugla_Degirmendere_Anc:I20226__BC_61 5__Cov_52.48%
0.06128630 Italy_Tarquinia_IA:ITTQ19__BC_645__Cov_85.64%
0.06152552 Macedonia_IA:I10385__BC_641__Cov_69.33%
0.06186555 Macedonia_IA:I10384__BC_600__Cov_65.57%
0.06205259 Croatia_LBA_EIA:I26742__BC_700__Cov_80.45%
0.06238999 Greece_Delphi_IA:I17962__BC_644__Cov_41.00%
0.06239684 Turkey_Archaic_SubGeometric:I20258__BC_615__Cov_67 .87%
0.06337233 Turkey_Archaic_SubGeometric:I20230__BC_615__Cov_71 .47%
0.06416351 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683__BC_636__C ov_69.18%
0.06419111 Croatia_IA:I3313__BC_772__Cov_69.17%
0.06434926 Macedonia_IA:I10381__BC_636__Cov_22.20%
0.06438164 Turkey_Archaic_SubGeometric:I20232__BC_615__Cov_53 .46%
0.06487571 Turkey_Archaic_SubGeometric:I20231__BC_615__Cov_48 .85%

Balboa

11-05-2024, 10:32 AM

Target: Balboa
Distance: 1.5303% / 0.01530329 | ADC: 0.5x RC
36.0 Italy_Sardinia_IA_Punic_2
15.6 Italy_Sicily_Himera_409BCE
14.2 Macedonia_IA
13.6 Italy_TarquiniaMonterozzi_IA.SG
10.4 Bulgaria_IA
10.2 Italy_IA_Republic_oEasternMediterranean_o.SG

Target: Balboa
Distance: 1.3385% / 0.01338526 | ADC: 0.25x RC
31.2 Italy_Sardinia_IA_Punic_2
16.2 Italy_Sicily_Himera_409BCE
11.6 Macedonia_IA
9.8 Italy_IA_Republic_oEasternMediterranean_o.SG
9.8 Turkey_Archaic_SubGeometric
7.0 France_GrandEst_IA
5.2 Italy_IA_Republic.SG
5.0 Italy_Sardinia_SantImbenia_RomanImperial.SG
3.4 Bulgaria_IA
0.8 Italy_Tuscany_Grosseto_Etruscan

Target: Balboa
Distance: 1.2043% / 0.01204260
22.6 Italy_Sardinia_IA_Punic_2
16.8 Turkey_Archaic_SubGeometric
16.4 Italy_Sicily_Himera_409BCE
13.6 Italy_Sardinia_SantImbenia_RomanImperial.SG
8.4 Italy_Sardinia_IA_Punic_1
6.6 France_GrandEst_IA
6.2 Ukraine_Scythian.SG
4.2 Bulgaria_EIA
2.4 Macedonia_IA
2.2 Russia_Koban_EIA
0.6 Italy_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1

Distance to: Balboa
0.03241052 Italy_Sicily_Himera_409BCE:I7223__BC_628__Cov_72.7 7%
0.03622226 Bulgaria_IA:I5769__BC_642__Cov_61.18%
0.03664598 Italy_Sardinia_IA_Punic_2:MSR002__BC_724__Cov_31.2 9%
0.03978130 Italy_Sicily_Himera_409BCE:I7224__BC_655__Cov_73.5 7%
0.04571612 Italy_Sicily_Himera_409BCE:I7225__BC_628__Cov_72.8 0%
0.04742335 Italy_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_1:I7219__BC_628__Cov_71 .87%
0.04761766 Macedonia_IA:I10381__BC_636__Cov_22.20%
0.04858485 Bulgaria_EIA:I19481__BC_600__Cov_15.93%
0.05243340 Italy_Tuscany_Grosseto_Etruscan:VET003_4__BC_755__ Cov_80.64%
0.05253560 Macedonia_IA:I10388__BC_708__Cov_67.44%
0.05380834 Italy_Tarquinia_IA:ITTQ19__BC_645__Cov_85.64%
0.05396785 Italy_Sardinia_IA_2:I16163__BC_626__Cov_48.08%
0.05516681 Greece_Delphi_IA:I17962__BC_644__Cov_41.00%
0.05549984 Italy_Tuscany_Grosseto_Etruscan:VET002__BC_664__Co v_53.64%
0.05615718 Italy_Tuscany_Grosseto_Etruscan:VEU001__BC_665__Co v_20.27%
0.05670485 Italy_IA_Republic_oEasternMediterranean_o.SG:R475. SG__BC_650__Cov_73.10%
0.05700958 Italy_TarquiniaMonterozzi_IA.SG:R10344.SG__BC_642_ _Cov_42.43%
0.05704315 Italy_IA_Republic.SG:R473.SG__BC_650__Cov_90.92%
0.05752640 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I11683__BC_636__C ov_69.18%
0.05763906 Macedonia_IA:I10387__BC_600__Cov_43.99%
0.05806383 Macedonia_IA:I10379__BC_641__Cov_66.02%
0.05896353 Italy_Tuscany_Grosseto_Etruscan:VET010__BC_653__Co v_34.13%
0.05933502 Macedonia_IA:I10383__BC_657__Cov_67.48%
0.05954421 Croatia_IA:I3313__BC_772__Cov_69.17%
0.06023097 Croatia_LBA_EIA:I26742__BC_700__Cov_80.45%

Target: Balboa_paternal
Distance: 0.6045% / 0.00604467 | ADC: 0.25x RC
24.6 Italy_Sardinia_IA_Punic_2:MSR002__BC_724__Cov_31.2 9%
17.2 Turkey_Archaic_SubGeometric:I20229__BC_615__Cov_73 .82%
14.0 Armenia_Beniamin_Urartu_IA.SG:R11535.SG__BC_786__C ov_60.28%
12.6 Ukraine_Scythian.SG:scy009_noUDG.SG__BC_618__Cov_6 9.53%
11.2 Armenia_IA:I13947__BC_662__Cov_19.11%
7.8 Lebanon_IA2.SG:SFI-56_noUDG.SG__BC_770__Cov_37.75%
4.2 Turkey_IA_o4_noUDG:I4029_noUDG__BC_653__Cov_88.86%
4.0 Italy_Sardinia_IA_Punic_1:VIL006__BC_672__Cov_40.7 0%
4.0 Bulgaria_IA:I5769__BC_642__Cov_61.18%
0.4 Macedonia_IA:I10388__BC_708__Cov_67.44%

tk'es

11-05-2024, 04:42 PM

Target: tk'es_scaled
Distance: 3.1180% / 0.03117973 | ADC: 0.25x RC
51.2 Armenia_IA
33.6 Armenia_LBA_EIA
8.8 Kazakhstan_Tasmola_EIA
3.8 Moldova_IA
2.6 Armenia_LIA

Target: tk'es_scaled
Distance: 3.1334% / 0.03133397 | ADC: 0.5x RC
57.2 Armenia_IA
31.6 Armenia_LBA_EIA
11.2 Kazakhstan_Tasmola_EIA

ScandinavianCelt

11-05-2024, 08:51 PM

According to mdlp ancient k 18 World:
cass>Sami-Finnic 2.52
PolishKociewie>Sami-Finnic 2.70

How about you?

Added
From what I see, the Belgians have 5.06, the Estonians 8.32 and the British Kent 3.30

Finns 19.36, Swede 5.08, Russian South 2.58, Russian 6.62, Saami 74.31

I get 4.85 average

Ancestry:4.03
23andMe:5.66

Duke

11-07-2024, 11:05 AM

Distance to: D_scaled
0.03732251 Montenegro_IA:I13170_v54.1_addback__BC_600__Cov_66 .37%
0.04090037 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 3__BC_650__Cov_32.42%
0.04221551 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR03 5AB__BC_650__Cov_81.80%
0.04411658 Croatia_EIA:I5727__BC_636__Cov_53.43%
0.04562911 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
0.04565961 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16088__BC_643__Cov_34.39%
0.04693465 Ukraine_Poltava_Scythian_LeftDnipro_LocEl_EIA:UKR0 87__BC_625__Cov_34.38%
0.04946910 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18211__BC_775__C ov_65.63%
0.04980550 Slovenia_EIA:I5690__BC_624__Cov_82.13%
0.04985998 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18245__BC_775__C ov_68.31%
0.05015556 Hungary_IA_Scythian_oAegean.SG:DA195_noUDG.SG__BC_ 622__Cov_47.30%
0.05182896 Ukraine_Scythian.SG:scy010_noUDG.SG__BC_656__Cov_2 7.35%
0.05189298 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18246__BC_775__C ov_67.64%
0.05362973 Germany_SouthernGermany_Singen_IA:MX265__BC_619__C ov_38.45%
0.05406994 England_EIA:I19861__BC_647__Cov_58.85%
0.05706516 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16327__BC_642__Cov_42.02%
0.05724101 Germany_West-Hallstattkreis_EIA:MBG017__BC_616__Cov_73.49%
0.05731520 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I15071__BC_675__Cov_27.87%
0.05842853 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18239__BC_775__C ov_66.49%
0.05936043 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18213__BC_775__C ov_65.63%
0.05944176 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan:CAM002__BC_639__Cov_6 5.71%
0.05959275 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 4__BC_650__Cov_36.39%
0.05966140 Ukraine_Scythian.SG:scy009_noUDG.SG__BC_618__Cov_6 9.53%
0.05966759 Ukraine_Scythian:MJ14__BC_643__Cov_8.13%
0.06064481 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I12106__BC_664__Cov_55.91%

Target: D_scaled
Distance: 1.4147% / 0.01414722
25.2 Macedonia_IA
22.4 Latvia_BA
10.8 Greece_Delphi_IA
8.0 Estonia_BA.SG
7.8 England_EIA_low_res
7.6 Ukraine_Scythian
7.2 Croatia_IA
3.8 Moldova_IA
2.8 Armenia_UrartianEmpire_o
2.4 Netherlands_EIA_low_res
2.0 Russia_Koban_EIA_o

Target: D_scaled
Distance: 1.8457% / 0.01845688 | ADC: 0.25x RC
35.6 Montenegro_IA
30.0 Macedonia_IA
25.2 Ukraine_Scythian
9.0 England_EIA_low_res
0.2 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA

Target: D_scaled
Distance: 1.9006% / 0.01900645 | ADC: 0.5x RC
35.8 Montenegro_IA
33.2 Macedonia_IA
23.0 Ukraine_Scythian
8.0 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA

Kostek

11-07-2024, 08:49 PM

Target: Kostek_scaled
Distance: 2.5161% / 0.02516114 | ADC: 0.5x RC
33.4 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA
27.0 Germany_SouthernGermany_Singen_IA
20.0 Latvia_BA
11.6 Montenegro_IA
8.0 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug

Target: Grandpa_scaled
Distance: 2.0612% / 0.02061191 | ADC: 0.5x RC
36.8 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA
32.4 Montenegro_IA
15.6 Germany_SouthernGermany_Singen_IA
8.6 Ukraine_Scythian
6.6 Armenia_IA

R1b-L51

11-07-2024, 10:11 PM

R1b-L51

11-07-2024, 10:24 PM

ANIMALITY

Target: ROBERTOFERN_scaled
Distance: 1.7985% / 0.01798526 | ADC: 0.5x RC
42.2 Croatia_EIA:I23995__BC_779__Cov_68.95%
23.0 France_GrandEst_IA1.SG:NOR3-15.SG__BC_750__Cov_11.07%
20.6 Spain_Navarra_EIA:CRU013_ss.A0101__BC_600__Cov_52. 91%
10.2 Tunisia_Punic_oAfrica1.SG:R11759.SG__BC_641__Cov_5 7.02%
4.0 Slovenia_EIA:I23971__BC_672__Cov_48.58%

Target: ROBERTOFERN_scaled
Distance: 1.3690% / 0.01369017 | ADC: 0.25x RC
24.6 France_GrandEst_IA1.SG
20.4 Croatia_EIA
13.0 Slovenia_EIA
11.4 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan
10.6 Spain_Navarra_EIA
10.2 Tunisia_Punic_oAfrica1.SG
5.4 Italy_IA_Republic.SG
1.6 Italy_Ordona_Daunian.SG
1.6 Japan_Nagabaka_2800BP
1.2 Pakistan_Aligrama_IA

Target: ROBERTOFERN_scaled
Distance: 1.2408% / 0.01240831
19.8 France_GrandEst_IA1.SG
17.2 Spain_Navarra_EIA
10.8 Italy_Tuscany_Grosseto_Etruscan
10.4 Slovenia_EIA
9.8 France_GrandEst_IA
9.6 Tunisia_Punic_oAfrica1.SG
3.8 Italy_Sicily_Himera_409BCE
3.2 Latvia_BA
3.0 Armenia_IA
3.0 Italy_Ordona_Daunian.SG
3.0 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan
2.0 Germany_SouthernGermany_Singen_IA
1.6 Japan_Nagabaka_2800BP
1.6 Pakistan_Aligrama_IA
1.2 Armenia_LIA

Distance to: ROBERTOFERN_scaled
0.03822241 Croatia_EIA:I5725__BC_604__Cov_54.17%
0.04027421 Slovenia_EIA:I23971__BC_672__Cov_48.58%
0.04152689 Slovenia_EIA:I5684__BC_672__Cov_85.74%
0.04300442 Slovenia_EIA:I5685__BC_672__Cov_87.26%
0.04337257 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan:PRZ002__BC_629__Cov_6 2.56%
0.04386304 Slovenia_EIA:I5691__BC_655__Cov_65.54%
0.04465942 Croatia_EIA:I23995__BC_779__Cov_68.95%
0.04517866 Slovenia_EIA:I5687__BC_672__Cov_90.09%
0.04647269 England_EIA_highEEF:I12774__BC_604__Cov_72.27%
0.04674507 Spain_Navarra_EIA:ERE004_ss.A0101__BC_783__Cov_25. 41%
0.04841246 Slovenia_EIA:I5692__BC_743__Cov_76.57%
0.04864395 Spain_Navarra_EIA:CRU013_ss.A0101__BC_600__Cov_52. 91%
0.04880335 Slovenia_EIA:I22935__BC_672__Cov_56.88%
0.04968815 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan:CAM002__BC_639__Cov_6 5.71%
0.05039063 Slovenia_EIA:I5686__BC_672__Cov_75.24%
0.05064305 Italy_IA_Republic.SG:R1021.SG__BC_650__Cov_46.92%
0.05066831 Croatia_EIA:I23904__BC_692__Cov_70.20%
0.05128708 Croatia_EIA:I24639__BC_708__Cov_68.44%
0.05138105 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18239__BC_775__C ov_66.49%
0.05145110 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18213__BC_775__C ov_65.63%
0.05173224 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan:CAM001__BC_647__Cov_7 7.44%
0.05187295 Italy_IA_Republic.SG:R474.SG__BC_650__Cov_73.44%
0.05196088 France_GrandEst_IA1.SG:NOR3-15.SG__BC_750__Cov_11.07%
0.05262898 Croatia_EIA:I23996__BC_794__Cov_65.39%
0.05342325 Germany_West-Hallstattkreis_EIA:MBG017__BC_616__Cov_73.49%

vasiliki23

11-12-2024, 02:59 PM

Target: VASILIKI_scaled
Distance: 1.5853% / 0.01585312 | ADC: 0.25x RC
24.8 Macedonia_IA
22.6 Germany_SouthernGermany_Singen_IA
21.8 Turkey_Archaic_SubGeometric
18.2 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat
5.4 Italy_IA_Republic_oEasternMediterranean.SG
4.4 Italy_Tuscany_Grosseto_Etruscan
2.8 Bulgaria_EIA

Target: VASILIKI_scaled
Distance: 1.8177% / 0.01817678 | ADC: 0.5x RC
44.2 Macedonia_IA
26.4 Germany_SouthernGermany_Singen_IA
22.4 Italy_IA_Republic_oEasternMediterranean.SG
7.0 Italy_IA_Republic.SG

Wend-Kruzek

11-12-2024, 06:20 PM

Distance to: Kruzek_scaled
0.03411873 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR03 5AB__BC_650__Cov_81.80%
0.03623603 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I11719__BC_626__Cov_54.31%
0.03712060 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I12106__BC_664__Cov_55.91%
0.03728310 Montenegro_IA:I13170_v54.1_addback__BC_600__Cov_66 .37%
0.04087012 Hungary_EIA_o3:I25525__BC_600__Cov_68.20%
0.04279591 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
0.04512618 Ukraine_Scythian.SG:scy009_noUDG.SG__BC_618__Cov_6 9.53%
0.04752675 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16326__BC_675__Cov_42.35%
0.04764155 Croatia_EIA:I5727__BC_636__Cov_53.43%
0.04834491 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 4__BC_650__Cov_36.39%
0.04903813 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16088__BC_643__Cov_34.39%
0.04932626 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA:UKR116 __BC_645__Cov_46.54%
0.04962470 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 3__BC_650__Cov_32.42%
0.04971940 England_EIA:I17260__BC_600__Cov_57.29%
0.04999320 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18211__BC_775__C ov_65.63%
0.05253813 England_EIA:I13688__BC_639__Cov_58.09%
0.05344555 England_EIA:I19287__BC_620__Cov_38.19%
0.05433830 Slovenia_EIA:I5690__BC_624__Cov_82.13%
0.05470963 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18245__BC_775__C ov_68.31%
0.05544916 England_EIA:I19861__BC_647__Cov_58.85%
0.05558216 Germany_SouthernGermany_Singen_IA:MX265__BC_619__C ov_38.45%
0.05602732 Ukraine_Scythian.SG:scy010_noUDG.SG__BC_656__Cov_2 7.35%
0.05705312 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 2__BC_660__Cov_16.42%
0.05711418 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I15071__BC_675__Cov_27.87%
0.05819655 England_EIA:I13682__BC_662__Cov_63.26%

Target: Kruzek_scaled
Distance: 0.9172% / 0.00917214
37.4 Latvia_BA
25.0 Croatia_IA
12.4 Netherlands_EIA_low_res
6.2 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan
5.8 Macedonia_IA
5.6 Denmark_BA
4.2 Kazakhstan_Sarmatian_IA
1.6 Italy_Sicily_Himera_409BCE
1.0 Italy_IA_Republic.SG
0.4 Brazil_Limão_2700BP
0.2 Guam_LateUnai
0.2 Japan_Nagabaka_2800BP

Target: Kruzek_scaled
Distance: 1.1654% / 0.01165379 | ADC: 0.25x RC
23.6 Latvia_BA
23.0 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan
20.4 Croatia_IA
12.6 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA
12.0 Netherlands_EIA_low_res
8.0 Ukraine_Scythian
0.4 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA

Target:
Kruzek_scaled
Distance: 1.5983% / 0.01598308 | ADC: 0.5x RC
42.0 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA
19.6 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan
14.6 Germany_SouthernGermany_Singen_IA
10.6 Netherlands_EIA_low_res
8.8 Croatia_EIA
4.4 Montenegro_IA

hazmatnik

11-12-2024, 06:40 PM

Target: Nikola_scaled
Distance: 2.0191% / 0.02019133 | ADC: 0.25x RC
28.8 Latvia_BA
25.2 Bulgaria_IA
23.6 Germany_SouthernGermany_Singen_IA
20.4 Italy_IA_Republic_oEasternMediterranean.SG
2.0 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat

Target: Nikola_scaled
Distance: 2.5752% / 0.02575241 | ADC: 0.5x RC
46.4 Germany_SouthernGermany_Singen_IA
26.6 Montenegro_IA
20.2 Italy_IA_Republic_oEasternMediterranean.SG
6.8 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat

pelikarski

11-12-2024, 07:14 PM

Target: DDimitrov_scaled
Distance: 2.3520% / 0.02352017 | ADC: 0.5x
39.6 Ukraine_Poltava_Scythian_LeftDnipro_LocEl_EIA
28.4 Hungary_IA_Scythian_oAegean.SG
11.0 Ukraine_Scythian
6.6 Armenia_IA
6.6 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA
5.0 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat
2.8 Russia_Koban_EIA

Target: DDimitrov_scaled
Distance: 1.6899% / 0.01689858 | ADC: 0.25x
23.0 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA
21.6 Macedonia_IA
18.6 Ukraine_Scythian
12.4 Ukraine_Poltava_Scythian_LeftDnipro_LocEl_EIA
10.2 Hungary_IA_Scythian_oAegean.SG
8.4 Armenia_IA
3.8 Russia_Koban_EIA
0.8 Armenia_EIA
0.6 Italy_Tarquinia_IA
0.4 Denmark_BA
0.2 Montenegro_IA

djipon

11-13-2024, 03:30 PM

Target: djipon_AncestryDNA_scaled
Distance: 1.8195% / 0.01819488 | ADC: 0.5x RC
34.2 Macedonia_IA:I10385__BC_641__Cov_69.33%
30.2 Ukraine_Scythian:MJ14__BC_643__Cov_8.13%
26.6 Turkey_IA_o4_noUDG:I4029_noUDG__BC_653__Cov_88.86%
9.0 Hungary_IA_Scythian_oAegean.SG:DA195_noUDG.SG__BC_ 622__Cov_47.30%

Target: djipon_AncestryDNA_scaled
Distance: 2.0649% / 0.02064945 | ADC: 0.5x RC
33.2 Turkey_IA_o4_noUDG:I4029_noUDG__BC_653__Cov_88.86%
28.6 Montenegro_IA:I13170_v54.1_addback__BC_600__Cov_66 .37%
14.6 Macedonia_IA:I10385__BC_641__Cov_69.33%
13.2 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 3__BC_650__Cov_32.42%
5.4 Hungary_IA_Scythian_oAegean.SG:DA195_noUDG.SG__BC_ 622__Cov_47.30%
5.0 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18239__BC_775__C ov_66.49%

Pater Patota

11-14-2024, 02:51 AM

Target: PP_scaled
Distance: 0.5505% / 0.00550506 | ADC: 0.25x RC
48.0 Armenia_LIA
22.0 Turkey_IA_o4_noUDG
15.6 Iran_Hasanlu_IA_noUDG
4.8 Armenia_EIA
4.0 Armenia_Pijut_UrartianPeriod
2.6 Nepal_Mustang_Rhirhi_IA
1.6 Armenia_IA
1.4 China_WLR_BA_o

Target: PP_scaled
Distance: 0.7108% / 0.00710761 | ADC: 0.5x RC
37.4 Armenia_LIA
23.2 Turkey_IA_o4_noUDG
17.4 Armenia_EIA
14.4 Iran_Hasanlu_IA_noUDG
3.8 Nepal_Mustang_Rhirhi_IA
3.6 Armenia_LBA_EIA
0.2 Kazakhstan_ZevakinoChilikta_IA_2.SG

Target: PP_scaled
Distance: 2.6375% / 0.02637491 | ADC: 1x RC
39.6 Armenia_LIA:I18237__BC_615__Cov_65.79%
36.8 Iran_Hasanlu_IA_noUDG:I4280_noUDG__BC_787__Cov_80. 40%
23.6 Armenia_EIA:I16191__BC_658__Cov_54.17%

thisismyaccount

11-14-2024, 01:57 PM

cass

11-14-2024, 02:21 PM

I think it should be clarified that the only people with scythian ancestry in Europe, are some few people somewhere in Russia. Also turkish people with turkic ancestry.

Scythian haplogroups are absent in Europe apart from a bit in turks and few select russian groups.

I think you underestimate the geographic breadth of Scythian cultures and their genetic diversity.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Iryna-Shramko-2/publication/331706243/figure/fig4/AS:843277540536322@1578064441993/Correlation-of-the-Altaian-Ancestry-Proportion-and-Great-Circle-Distance-from-Altai.png

Mrozek231

11-14-2024, 05:09 PM

Distance to: Mrozek231
0.02851486 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA:UKR116 __BC_645__Cov_46.54%
0.03567980 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I12106__BC_664__Cov_55.91%
0.03809464 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 4__BC_650__Cov_36.39%
0.03900609 Hungary_EIA_o3:I25525__BC_600__Cov_68.20%
0.04281409 Montenegro_IA:I13170_v54.1_addback__BC_600__Cov_66 .37%
0.04327843 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I11719__BC_626__Cov_54.31%
0.04580699 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR03 5AB__BC_650__Cov_81.80%
0.04641032 Italy_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_3:I10943__BC_640__Cov_5 9.11%
0.04757990 Ukraine_Scythian.SG:scy009_noUDG.SG__BC_618__Cov_6 9.53%
0.04761119 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
0.05227588 Ukraine_Scythian:MJ14__BC_643__Cov_8.13%
0.05370052 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 2__BC_660__Cov_16.42%
0.05824707 Estonia_IA.SG:s19_V10_2_noUDG.SG__BC_623__Cov_23.8 6%
0.06059903 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 3__BC_650__Cov_32.42%
0.06139861 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16326__BC_675__Cov_42.35%
0.06793424 Estonia_IA.SG:s19_0LS10_1_noUDG.SG__BC_659__Cov_20 .33%
0.07058071 Latvia_BA:Kivutkalns42__BC_747__Cov_51.35%
0.07157942 Latvia_BA:Kivutkalns215__BC_609__Cov_74.70%
0.07187506 Latvia_BA:Kivutkalns25__BC_687__Cov_59.86%
0.07191175 Ukraine_Scythian.SG:scy010_noUDG.SG__BC_656__Cov_2 7.35%
0.07216879 Ukraine_Srubnaya_MLBA:MJ08__BC_637__Cov_8.31%
0.07247458 England_EIA:I19861__BC_647__Cov_58.85%
0.07349385 Netherlands_EIA_low_res:I12903__BC_650__Cov_6.55%
0.07380123 Latvia_BA:Kivutkalns153__BC_683__Cov_21.49%
0.07427719 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16088__BC_643__Cov_34.39%

Target: Mrozek231
Distance: 0.8271% / 0.00827079
39.6 Latvia_BA
21.6 Slovenia_EIA
12.6 Ukraine_Scythian
7.2 Macedonia_IA
6.8 Estonia_IA.SG
6.2 England_EIA_low_res
2.6 Moldova_IA
1.4 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt_low_res
1.2 Kazakhstan_Tasmola_Saka_IA
0.6 Kazakhstan_Sarmatian_IA
0.2 Ukraine_Srubnaya_MLBA

Target: Mrozek231
Distance: 1.1272% / 0.01127167 | ADC: 0.25x RC
27.6 Latvia_BA
18.2 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA
15.6 Montenegro_IA
12.6 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug
12.2 Ukraine_Scythian
7.0 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt_low_res
4.2 Netherlands_EIA_low_res
2.6 Estonia_IA.SG

Target: Mrozek231
Distance: 1.6218% / 0.01621800 | ADC: 0.5x RC
38.0 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA
17.2 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug
11.6 Estonia_IA.SG
9.6 Ukraine_Scythian
7.8 Montenegro_IA
6.4 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA
6.2 Italy_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_3
3.2 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA

thisismyaccount

11-14-2024, 06:07 PM

I think you underestimate the geographic breadth of Scythian cultures and their genetic diversity.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Iryna-Shramko-2/publication/331706243/figure/fig4/AS:843277540536322@1578064441993/Correlation-of-the-Altaian-Ancestry-Proportion-and-Great-Circle-Distance-from-Altai.png

They would score more or less the same haplogroups though, especially the specific R1a-Z93 scythian subclades. I forgot the exact subclades, but I do remember theyre basically absent amongst europeans in comparison to some turkic groups. Especially around kyrghizstan.

You underestimate the importance of haplogroups. Scythian ancestry is male meditated.

cass

11-14-2024, 06:11 PM

They would score more or less the same haplogroups though, especially the specific R1a-Z93 scythian subclades. I forgot the exact subclades, but I do remember theyre basically absent amongst europeans in comparison to some turkic groups. Especially around kyrghizstan.

You underestimate the importance of haplogroups. Scythian ancestry is male meditated.

:picard2:

Haplogroup analysis was abandoned many years ago in favor of autosomal testing.

thisismyaccount

11-14-2024, 06:37 PM

:picard2:

Haplogroup analysis was abandoned many years ago in favor of autosomal testing.

And you don't wonder that scythian being common in europeans, their paternal haplogroups are basically absent in almost all europeans? Especially the fact that scythian ancestry comes from men?

Western scythians, especially mixing with local slavs, ended up closer to europeans compared to east scythians. So we can't tell alone from autosomal data if europeans got scythian ancestry or not.

But the fact that scythian haplogroups are even more common in tajikstanis than europeans in general says enough.
Scythians were insignificant in population compared to europeans. They wouldn't had contributed to europeans, especially west of Russia-Ukraine. This is basically why we see no scythian haplogroups

You seriously underestimate the importance of haplogroups.

They can help us determine ancient ancestry,

example: You have a Taiwanese group knowingly being descended from ancient chinese people.
But we also are aware of mongol presence in their lands at some point in history.
Those mongols are very close by autosomal data to ancient chinese ancestors. It gets hard to tell Taiwanese have this mongol ancestry or not. So we have haplogroups of these ancient mongols to compare with Taiwanese.

If they get them commonly or at least sometimes, we can tell mongol ancestry is legit. Just not how much mongol ancestry, could be 2-3%. Could be up to 20% mongol.

If no mongol haplogroups, then it become very clear there's no mongol ancestry.

This is same case with europeans and scythians. You understand now?

cass

11-15-2024, 06:54 AM

And you don't wonder that scythian being common in europeans, their paternal haplogroups are basically absent in almost all europeans? Especially the fact that scythian ancestry comes from men?

Western scythians, especially mixing with local slavs, ended up closer to europeans compared to east scythians. So we can't tell alone from autosomal data if europeans got scythian ancestry or not.

But the fact that scythian haplogroups are even more common in tajikstanis than europeans in general says enough.
Scythians were insignificant in population compared to europeans. They wouldn't had contributed to europeans, especially west of Russia-Ukraine. This is basically why we see no scythian haplogroups

You seriously underestimate the importance of haplogroups.

They can help us determine ancient ancestry,

example: You have a Taiwanese group knowingly being descended from ancient chinese people.
But we also are aware of mongol presence in their lands at some point in history.
Those mongols are very close by autosomal data to ancient chinese ancestors. It gets hard to tell Taiwanese have this mongol ancestry or not. So we have haplogroups of these ancient mongols to compare with Taiwanese.

If they get them commonly or at least sometimes, we can tell mongol ancestry is legit. Just not how much mongol ancestry, could be 2-3%. Could be up to 20% mongol.

If no mongol haplogroups, then it become very clear there's no mongol ancestry.

This is same case with europeans and scythians. You understand now?

You don't seem to understand these processes at all.

https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0960982219304245-fx1_lrg.jpg

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982219304245

I understand that you insist on analyzing ancient haplogroups in the male line. So let's see what this partial analysis led scientists to.

The assignment method was performed from only the allelic frequencies of the seven STR loci considered in the consensus genotype. The probability of observing an individual with the Kizil skeleton STR profile was the highest in the two eastern European populations (Russia and Poland). Indeed, the likelihood that the Kizil skeleton STR profile occurred in these two populations was 10 times higher than in other European populations, 100 times higher than in eastern Asian populations, and about 100,000 times higher than in Indian populations.

source: Genetic Analysis of a Scytho-Siberian Skeleton and Its Implications for Ancient Central Asian Migrations
(https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8485117_Genetic_Analysis_of_a_Scytho-Siberian_Skeleton_and_Its_Implications_for_Ancient _Central_Asian_Migrations)

Pohjanpoika

01-07-2025, 03:30 AM

Distance to: Pohjanpoika_scaled
0.05423931 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA:UKR116 __BC_645__Cov_46.54%
0.05537714 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I12106__BC_664__Cov_55.91%
0.05977259 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
0.06195242 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 4__BC_650__Cov_36.39%
0.06239041 Hungary_EIA_o3:I25525__BC_600__Cov_68.20%
0.06258790 Estonia_IA.SG:s19_V10_2_noUDG.SG__BC_623__Cov_23.8 6%
0.06269613 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I11719__BC_626__Cov_54.31%
0.06506817 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 2__BC_660__Cov_16.42%
0.06608609 Estonia_IA.SG:s19_0LS10_1_noUDG.SG__BC_659__Cov_20 .33%
0.07051438 Montenegro_IA:I13170_v54.1_addback__BC_600__Cov_66 .37%
0.07213277 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR03 5AB__BC_650__Cov_81.80%
0.07226535 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt_low_res:I17607__BC_675__Cov_7 .99%
0.07321729 Netherlands_EIA_low_res:I12903__BC_650__Cov_6.55%
0.07393173 Italy_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_3:I10943__BC_640__Cov_5 9.11%
0.07475674 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16326__BC_675__Cov_42.35%
0.07492644 Ukraine_Scythian:MJ14__BC_643__Cov_8.13%
0.07529221 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 3__BC_650__Cov_32.42%
0.07785956 England_EIA:C10462__BC_750__Cov_31.38%
0.07796533 England_EIA:I16618__BC_654__Cov_36.01%
0.07868272 England_EIA:I13688__BC_639__Cov_58.09%
0.07898373 Ukraine_Scythian.SG:scy009_noUDG.SG__BC_618__Cov_6 9.53%
0.07901631 England_EIA_low_res:I14743_d__BC_644__Cov_5.63%
0.08014018 Ukraine_Srubnaya_MLBA:MJ08__BC_637__Cov_8.31%
0.08135868 England_EIA:I17260__BC_600__Cov_57.29%
0.08175001 England_EIA:I13682__BC_662__Cov_63.26%

Target: Pohjanpoika_scaled
Distance: 1.7674% / 0.01767358
29.8 Estonia_IA.SG
23.0 England_EIA_low_res
20.6 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt_low_res
16.4 Latvia_BA
3.4 Mongolia_EIA_SlabGrave_1
3.2 Kazakhstan_Tasmola_EIA
2.4 Netherlands_EIA_low_res
1.2 Kazakhstan_Sarmatian_IA

Target: Pohjanpoika_scaled
Distance: 1.8062% / 0.01806241 | ADC: 0.25x RC
32.2 Estonia_IA.SG
22.8 England_EIA_low_res
18.6 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt_low_res
14.4 Latvia_BA
12.0 Kazakhstan_Tasmola_EIA

Target: Pohjanpoika_scaled
Distance: 2.1083% / 0.02108266 | ADC: 0.5x RC
39.8 Estonia_IA.SG
20.8 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt_low_res
16.8 England_EIA_low_res
11.4 Kazakhstan_Tasmola_EIA
11.2 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA

Distance to: Pohjanpoika_father_scaled
0.05578730 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I12106__BC_664__Cov_55.91%
0.05603715 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA:UKR116 __BC_645__Cov_46.54%
0.05915857 Estonia_IA.SG:s19_V10_2_noUDG.SG__BC_623__Cov_23.8 6%
0.06257007 Hungary_EIA_o3:I25525__BC_600__Cov_68.20%
0.06389319 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 4__BC_650__Cov_36.39%
0.06416890 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug:I11719__BC_626__Cov_54.31%
0.06454153 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 2__BC_660__Cov_16.42%
0.06475044 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_2_EIA:UKR111__ BC_657__Cov_41.62%
0.06801634 Estonia_IA.SG:s19_0LS10_1_noUDG.SG__BC_659__Cov_20 .33%
0.07217608 Montenegro_IA:I13170_v54.1_addback__BC_600__Cov_66 .37%
0.07324787 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR03 5AB__BC_650__Cov_81.80%
0.07513048 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16326__BC_675__Cov_42.35%
0.07677703 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt_low_res:I17607__BC_675__Cov_7 .99%
0.07708931 Italy_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_3:I10943__BC_640__Cov_5 9.11%
0.07843277 Ukraine_Scythian:MJ14__BC_643__Cov_8.13%
0.07902149 Ukraine_Scythian.SG:scy009_noUDG.SG__BC_618__Cov_6 9.53%
0.08026157 Ukraine_Kyiv_Scythian_RightDnipro_IllThr_EIA:UKR04 3__BC_650__Cov_32.42%
0.08197314 Netherlands_EIA_low_res:I12903__BC_650__Cov_6.55%
0.08295100 England_EIA:I13688__BC_639__Cov_58.09%
0.08320208 England_EIA_low_res:I16617__BC_641__Cov_7.16%
0.08437409 England_EIA:C10462__BC_750__Cov_31.38%
0.08444770 England_EIA:I16618__BC_654__Cov_36.01%
0.08456634 England_EIA_low_res:I14743_d__BC_644__Cov_5.63%
0.08554934 Latvia_BA:Kivutkalns215__BC_609__Cov_74.70%
0.08601624 England_EIA:I17260__BC_600__Cov_57.29%

Target: Pohjanpoika_father_scaled
Distance: 1.9803% / 0.01980284
28.2 Latvia_BA
26.0 England_EIA_low_res
24.0 Estonia_IA.SG
16.4 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt_low_res
5.4 Mongolia_EIA_SlabGrave_1

Target: Pohjanpoika_father_scaled
Distance: 1.9803% / 0.01980284 | ADC: 0.25x RC
28.2 Latvia_BA
26.0 England_EIA_low_res
24.0 Estonia_IA.SG
16.4 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt_low_res
5.4 Mongolia_EIA_SlabGrave_1

Target: Pohjanpoika_father_scaled
Distance: 2.7300% / 0.02730043 | ADC: 0.5x RC
47.6 Estonia_IA.SG
23.0 England_EIA_low_res
11.6 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt_low_res
9.4 Kazakhstan_Tasmola_EIA
8.4 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA

Gannicus

01-07-2025, 04:04 AM

Distance to: Gannicus_mergedfile_scaled
0.02484540 England_EIA:I27382__BC_642__Cov_73.86%
0.03025612 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16327__BC_642__Cov_42.02%
0.03057900 England_EIA:I19868__BC_629__Cov_49.59%
0.03478496 England_EIA:I13682__BC_662__Cov_63.26%
0.03495379 Slovenia_EIA:I5690__BC_624__Cov_82.13%
0.03635551 England_EIA:I12783__BC_649__Cov_61.15%
0.03725811 England_EIA:I16618__BC_654__Cov_36.01%
0.03783516 England_EIA:I19861__BC_647__Cov_58.85%
0.03974730 England_EIA:I20585__BC_600__Cov_64.38%
0.03977682 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I14983__BC_675__Cov_54.98%
0.03990144 England_EIA:I17260__BC_600__Cov_57.29%
0.04169138 England_EIA_highEEF:I19867__BC_648__Cov_60.89%
0.04201845 England_EIA:I19287__BC_620__Cov_38.19%
0.04261214 England_EIA:I13688__BC_639__Cov_58.09%
0.04316974 England_EIA:I19862__BC_621__Cov_57.07%
0.04426318 Germany_West-Hallstattkreis_EIA:MBG017__BC_616__Cov_73.49%
0.04556283 England_EIA:C10462__BC_750__Cov_31.38%
0.04675853 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I15071__BC_675__Cov_27.87%
0.04976401 England_EIA_highEEF:I12774__BC_604__Cov_72.27%
0.05001914 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16088__BC_643__Cov_34.39%
0.05012555 Hungary_EIA_Prescythian_Mezocsat:I18211__BC_775__C ov_65.63%
0.05228186 Italy_Tuscany_Siena_Etruscan:CAM002__BC_639__Cov_6 5.71%
0.05255779 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt:I16326__BC_675__Cov_42.35%
0.05301999 England_Derbyshire_IA.SG:CE003.SG__BC_603__Cov_23. 96%
0.05324980 Croatia_EIA:I5727__BC_636__Cov_53.43%

Target: Gannicus_mergedfile_scaled
Distance: 0.0168% / 0.01682395 | ADC: 0.25x RC
83.5 England_EIA
5.5 England_Derbyshire_IA.SG
4.3 Lebanon_IA2.SG
3.8 Ukraine_Srubnaya_MLBA
2.9 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt

Target: Gannicus_mergedfile_scaled
Distance: 0.0164% / 0.01638961 | R4P
89.7 England_EIA
5.3 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_Nom_EIA
3.6 Lebanon_IA2.SG
1.4 Czechia_IA_Hallstatt