My GEDmatch Eurogenes K13 results (Balkan ancestry)

[The Butcher]

Got my FTDNA autosomal results a couple of days ago and been toying with those GEDmatch admixture calculators. Still new to this, so it would be nice to hear what you guys think.

For now, I'll just say that my ancestry is 100% Balkan, one single ethnicity, but different regions and even different countries if we look at modern-day borders. Let's see if you can guess the ethnicity based on my Eurogenes results.

People seem to like the K13 calculator best, so let's start with this one:

North_Atlantic 19.95 Pct
Baltic 27.45 Pct
West_Med 15.53 Pct
West_Asian 7.73 Pct
East_Med 23.03 Pct
Red_Sea 3.66 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 2.16 Pct
Amerindian 0.12 Pct
Oceanian 0.35 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[Dušan]

Romanian?

[Fabricius]

Where is the oracle-4?

[The Butcher]

Romanian?


Good call based on the results I posted, but I do not have any Romanian ancestry, actually.


Where is the oracle-4?

I'll skip the 1 population approximation because it contains the answer to the riddle.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Italian_Jewish +50% Southwest_Russian @ 3.420516

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Algerian_Jewish +25% Belorussian +25% Southwest_Russian @ 3.250680

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Ashkenazi + Italian_Jewish + Southwest_Russian + Southwest_Russian @ 3.037580
2 Algerian_Jewish + Ashkenazi + Southwest_Russian + Southwest_Russian @ 3.046797
3 Erzya + Estonian_Polish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish @ 3.083955
4 Belorussian + Erzya + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish @ 3.086753
5 Algerian_Jewish + Belorussian + Italian_Jewish + Southwest_Russian @ 3.133215
6 Algerian_Jewish + Estonian_Polish + Italian_Jewish + Southwest_Russian @ 3.133743
7 Algerian_Jewish + Belorussian + Erzya + Italian_Jewish @ 3.207509
8 Ashkenazi + Estonian_Polish + Italian_Jewish + Southwest_Russian @ 3.239775
9 Algerian_Jewish + Algerian_Jewish + Belorussian + Southwest_Russian @ 3.250680
10 Estonian_Polish + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Southwest_Russian @ 3.264029

[The Butcher]

I also uploaded my raw data to DNAGENICS and ran their Eurogenes K13 calculator. Slightly higher Baltic and North Atlantic components, slightly lower East Med.


DNAGENICS - Admixture Studio

Eurogenes K13

Author: Eurogenes
Baltic 27.58%
East Med 22.72%
North Atlantic 20.08%
West Med 15.42%
West Asian 7.92%
Red Sea 3.72%
Siberian 2.14%
Oceanian 0.35%
Amerindian 0.06%

Result #1
Fit: 4.58
Moldovan South
84.77%
Greek South Central Mainland
15.23%

Result #2
Fit: 4.59
Moldovan South
84.77%
Turkish Crete
15.23%

Result #3
Fit: 4.62
Moldovan South
87.11%
Greek West Anatolia
12.89%


Result #4
Fit: 4.74
Moldovan South
81.64%
Greek North
18.36%

Result #5
Fit: 4.75
Moldovan South
57.42%
Pomak Greece
42.58%

[Dušan]

Good call based on the results I posted, but I do not have any Romanian ancestry, actually.


Bulgarian maybe?

[The Butcher]

Bulgarian maybe?

Bingo.

One side of the family comes from Southwest Bulgaria, several small places north of Blagoevgrad.

The other side of the family is Macedonian-Bulgarian (they identify themselves as Bulgarians but they also have a very strong regional Macedonian identity, and so do I). The ancestral locations comprise a small settlement in Pirin Macedonia a few km away from the Greek border (this is where my Y-DNA comes from) and two places in present-day Greece -- Edessa (Voden) and Ioannina. We can trace our family history pretty far back and we are not aware of any Greek ancestry, but especially Ioannina was a very diverse place, so you never really know. Perhaps some distant Greek ancestry could explain my high East Med %.

[Dušan]

Bingo.

One side of the family comes from Southwest Bulgaria, several small places north of Blagoevgrad.

The other side of the family is Macedonian-Bulgarian (they identify themselves as Bulgarians but they also have a very strong regional Macedonian identity, and so do I). The ancestral locations comprise a small settlement in Pirin Macedonia a few km away from the Greek border (this is where my Y-DNA comes from) and two places in present-day Greece -- Edessa (Voden) and Ioannina. We can trace our family history pretty far back and we are not aware of any Greek ancestry, but especially Ioannina was a very diverse place, so you never really know. Perhaps some distant Greek ancestry could explain my high East Med %.

Nice. Welcome to forum. :)

[The Butcher]

Nice. Welcome to forum. :)

Hvala, bratko. I visited Beograd, Novi Sad, Banja Luka and Zagreb earlier this year as part of my ex-Yugo trip. Novi Sad is such a cool place, reminds me of Plovdiv.

[Anatolya]

Nice results, welcome aboard

[Dušan]

Hvala, bratko. I visited Beograd, Novi Sad, Banja Luka and Zagreb earlier this year as part of my ex-Yugo trip. Novi Sad is such a cool place, reminds me of Plovdiv.

I am glad you had a great time here.

[The Butcher]

Nice results, welcome aboard

Teşekkürler. Any idea if my results are standard for Bulgarians?

[Live The Magic]

Bingo.

One side of the family comes from Southwest Bulgaria, several small places north of Blagoevgrad.

The other side of the family is Macedonian-Bulgarian (they identify themselves as Bulgarians but they also have a very strong regional Macedonian identity, and so do I). The ancestral locations comprise a small settlement in Pirin Macedonia a few km away from the Greek border (this is where my Y-DNA comes from) and two places in present-day Greece -- Edessa (Voden) and Ioannina. We can trace our family history pretty far back and we are not aware of any Greek ancestry, but especially Ioannina was a very diverse place, so you never really know. Perhaps some distant Greek ancestry could explain my high East Med %.
Welcome

High East Med is also common for Macedonians and Albanians on that calculator. Its also oftern followed by high Red Sea (above 1%)

[Anatolya]

Teşekkürler. Any idea if my results are standard for Bulgarians?


There’s no drastic difference that would make you an outlier, but your East Med, Baltic, and East Eurasian scores are slightly higher than average (though still within the range). The East Med would make sense if you have roots from the southern part of Bulgaria, and the Baltic + East Eurasian could point to some northern ancestry or possibly another Slavic, or even Turkic roots, I guess. Just a guess.

[The Butcher]

Welcome

High East Med is also common for Macedonians and Albanians on that calculator. Its also oftern followed by high Red Sea (above 1%)

thanks. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It's a pity that the K13 spreadsheet on GEDmatch does not include any data on Macedonians and Albanians.


There’s no drastic difference that would make you an outlier, but your East Med, Baltic, and East Eurasian scores are slightly higher than average (though still within the range). The East Med would make sense if you have roots from the southern part of Bulgaria, and the Baltic + East Eurasian could point to some northern ancestry or possibly another Slavic, or even Turkic roots, I guess. Just a guess.

It's interesting how my Baltic and East Med scores are simultaneously higher than the Bulgarian averages. At the expense of my West Asian component, it seems.

Yeah, I guess it's logical for my Macedonian origins from Voden and Ioannina to account for a higher East Med and Red Sea score, they're way down south.

The Baltic component seems to be rather strong in the southwest of Bulgaria, around Kyustendil and Blagoevgrad and particularly in some of the smaller, more isolated settlements up in the mountains, like the ones where my family comes from. As for the Siberian score, I have two theories -- it's either tied to the Baltic one (I noticed that lots of East Slavs have a relatively high Siberian component, too), or it could be attributed to some very distant Turkic/Uralic roots. Some actual Bulgar ancestry would be fascinating, but I'm skeptical. I believe it's actually more likely that the small % of Siberian scored by some Bulgarians from the southwest comes from Cumans, Pechenegs and Uzi who had been raiding this area for a long while, rather than Bulgars. In fact, it has been asserted that some Pechenegs actually settled in the southwest and were assimilated into the local population.

[Live The Magic]

thanks. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It's a pity that the K13 spreadsheet on GEDmatch does not include any data on Macedonians and Albanians.

Try MDLP

Also, normal result for Bulgaria:

Target: The_Butcher
Distance: 349.1913% / 3.49191283
59.2 Slavic
40.8 Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman

[The Butcher]

Try MDLP

Also, normal result for Bulgaria:

Target: The_Butcher
Distance: 349.1913% / 3.49191283
59.2 Slavic
40.8 Paleo_Balkan_&_Roman

What's the name of this Slavic/Balkan calculator? I would've expected the paleo-Balkan component to be stronger than the Slavic one, tbh. Interesting.

Man, those MDLP calculators are kinda confusing. Anyways, here goes:

MDLP K16 Modern

Population
Amerindian -
Ancestor -
Steppe 18.32 Pct
Indian -
Arctic 0.81 Pct
Australian -
Caucasian 33.62 Pct
EastAfrican -
NorthEastEuropean 18.09 Pct
NearEast 2.48 Pct
Neolithic 24.33 Pct
NorthAfrican 1.81 Pct
Oceanic -
Siberian -
SouthEastAsian 0.55 Pct
Subsaharian -

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Bulgarian_Bulgaria @ 3.781797
2 Macedonian_Macedonia @ 4.592306
3 Bulgarian_Bulgaria @ 4.986430
4 Gagauz_Gagauzia @ 5.458899
5 Romanian_Gorj @ 6.110442
6 Kosovar_Kosovo @ 6.682407
7 Montenegrian_Montenegro @ 6.723125
8 Romanian_Apuseni @ 6.909750
9 Romanian_Romania @ 7.041073
10 Serbian_Serbia @ 7.611703
11 Greek_Thessaloniki @ 7.681047
12 Greek_Greece @ 7.691232
13 Albanian_Albania @ 7.720947
14 Moldavian_Molodva @ 8.021603
15 Greek_Peloponnes @ 8.790214
16 Italian_Friul @ 8.905053
17 Greek_Macedonia @ 9.647707
18 Serbian_Bosnia-Herzegovina @ 9.669806
19 Italian_NorthIitaly @ 9.727639
20 Bosnian_Bosnia-Herzegovina @ 10.049999

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Dutch_Netherlands +50% Greek_Greece @ 3.152301

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Norwegian_Norwegia +25% Sicilian_Sicily +25% Turk_Trabzon @ 1.991762

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Bulgarian_Bulgaria + French_EastFrance + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.786846
2 Bulgarian_Bulgaria + French_EastFrance + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.848623
3 Bulgarian_Bulgaria + German_Germany + Scottish_Argyll_bute + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.853655
4 Bulgarian_Bulgaria + German_Germany + Orcadian_Orkney_Islands + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.877014
5 Hungarian_WestUkraine + Italian_Tuscany + Norwegian_Norwegia + Turk_Trabzon @ 1.881936

[pelikarski]

I am also from the Blagoevgrad Kuystendil area, but I am native to the area, no Macedonian ancestry

my results
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 26.06
2 North_Atlantic 25.3
3 West_Med 16.12
4 East_Med 13.8
5 West_Asian 12.76
6 Siberian 2.13
7 Red_Sea 1.93
8 South_Asian 1.21
9 East_Asian 0.46
10 Amerindian 0.23

[The Butcher]

I am also from the Blagoevgrad Kuystendil area, but I am native to the area, no Macedonian ancestry

my results
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 26.06
2 North_Atlantic 25.3
3 West_Med 16.12
4 East_Med 13.8
5 West_Asian 12.76
6 Siberian 2.13
7 Red_Sea 1.93
8 South_Asian 1.21
9 East_Asian 0.46
10 Amerindian 0.23

Hey, man, cool results! It's nice to make a comparison with someone who has ancestry from the same region. Would be interesting to run a comparison with someone from Eastern Bulgaria as well.

Have you tested your Y-DNA as well?

Поздрав :)

[djipon]

Would be interesting to run a comparison with someone from Eastern Bulgaria as well.


I'm from Eastern Bulgaria. Do you have G25 coordinates? Simulated ones work, too. I should run you on my Bulgarian samples database, quite big it is.

[The Butcher]

I'm from Eastern Bulgaria. Do you have G25 coordinates? Simulated ones work, too. I should run you on my Bulgarian samples database, quite big it is.

Привет. So, I just purchased my G25 coordinates from the DNAGENICS store. I'll DM you.

[djipon]

Привет. So, I just purchased my G25 coordinates from the DNAGENICS store. I'll DM you.

You can simulate them here, no need to pay - https://www.exploreyourdna.com/rawtosimg25.aspx

[The Butcher]

You can simulate them here, no need to pay - https://www.exploreyourdna.com/rawtosimg25.aspx

Okay, I have them, but apparently I can't DM you because I'm a new member?

Anyways, I guess I can just post them here.

-

[The Butcher]

I'm from Eastern Bulgaria.

Do you mind sharing your own K13 results, by the way? I'm curious to see how we match up.

[djipon]

Anyways, I guess I can just post them here.

Sorry, I saw your message late...
Here are your results on my calculator:

https://i.postimg.cc/T1nCxTnQ/image.png

https://i.postimg.cc/133cCG7v/image.png

Here is without penalty, but since your coordinates are simulated, I'd stick to 0,25x (the one above).

https://i.postimg.cc/MGh7ph6L/image.png

The distances are very good. I'd advise you not to use G25 modern averages, as they are full of Pomak, Gagauz and Torbeshi samples, that always come up as top match for Bulgarians (what is the reason, I won't get into...) and you'll always think you are Pomak or something. You either remove them if running calculators, or relabel Pomak as Bulgarian and Torbeshi as Macedonian, or however you like.

[djipon]

Do you mind sharing your own K13 results, by the way? I'm curious to see how we match up.

If you give me GEDmatch kit number I can also check if we are DNA related.

[The Butcher]

Amazing job, man, thanks a ton. I'll reply in more detail tomorrow.

[The Butcher]

Here are your results on my calculator:



To be honest, I'm still very new to population genetics, and I've mostly researched into Y-DNA haplogroups so far, so I still don't fully understand how these tools and calculators actually operate.

Does the first table show my genetic distance to specific individuals from those areas (Northwest, Yambol, etc.), or is it distance to regional averages?

Actually, I did purchase my G25 coordinates from the DNAGENICS store, so they are not simulated. I don't know if that really makes any difference.

And what is your main takeaway after you ran my results against your BG database? Do I just resemble the standard Bulgarian average, or am I tilted towards a specific region?

Once I'm granted permission to send DMs on here, I'll DM you my kit number.

[djipon]

To be honest, I'm still very new to population genetics, and I've mostly researched into Y-DNA haplogroups so far, so I still don't fully understand how these tools and calculators actually operate.

Does the first table show my genetic distance to specific individuals from those areas (Northwest, Yambol, etc.), or is it distance to regional averages?

Actually, I did purchase my G25 coordinates from the DNAGENICS store, so they are not simulated. I don't know if that really makes any difference.

And what is your main takeaway after you ran my results against your BG database? Do I just resemble the standard Bulgarian average, or am I tilted towards a specific region?

Once I'm granted permission to send DMs on here, I'll DM you my kit number.

It shows both to individuals and averages.

DNAgenics simulates coordinates from your RAW file. The only real g25 coordinates can be obtained from Davidsky or from illustrativeDNA (which, again, come from Davidsky).

I think you are standart Bulgarian. Maybe a bit west shifted, but there are Bulgarians, too, on this part of the PCA, so normal Bulgarian I guess.

https://i.postimg.cc/h48gkWWD/image.png

This is on a custom PCA I made with my sample collection.

https://i.postimg.cc/J0YXryDJ/image.png

You are Bulgarian, my firend. Your family history kind of confirms it :)

[The Butcher]

It shows both to individuals and averages.

DNAgenics simulates coordinates from your RAW file. The only real g25 coordinates can be obtained from Davidsky or from illustrativeDNA (which, again, come from Davidsky).

I think you are standart Bulgarian. Maybe a bit west shifted, but there are Bulgarians, too, on this part of the PCA, so normal Bulgarian I guess.

Gotcha. Thanks for the explanations. I thought I had acquired the real G25 coordinates after paying 4 bucks to DNAgenics for them (Black Friday discount, otherwise they're 20 bucks, I think), haha.



This is on a custom PCA I made with my sample collection.

https://i.postimg.cc/J0YXryDJ/image.png

You are Bulgarian, my firend. Your family history kind of confirms it :)

This PCA looks very interesting. You're killing it with your database and those PCA plots, keep it up. Great stuff.

[Lioncourt]

Добре дошъл.

Your results are pretty standard, maybe your East Med component is a bit higher than average and West Asian is slightly lower.

[The Butcher]

Добре дошъл.

Your results are pretty standard, maybe your East Med component is a bit higher than average and West Asian is slightly lower.

Добре заварил. That's what I noticed, too -- higher EM, lower WA. That said, my EM+WA total is 30.76, whereas the average Bulgarian EM+WA total (going off of the K13 spreadsheet) is 32.03, so yeah, the scores are very, very close.