Genetics of Celtiberians

[Mopi The Dire Wolf]

:)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2VtUnLfws4

[Beowulf]

Yay! He finally did it!

[Jased]

So how much Germanic and Nordic are they on average 50%?

[Beowulf]

So how much Germanic and Nordic are they on average 50%?

They are Celtiberian... That was way before the arrival of Germanics to Iberia.

[vader]

He makes good videos, very honest phenotype representations which I also really enjoy. I think most folk pre-genetic mainstream would assume celtiberians were looking straight blonde, blue eyed and whatnot. Sure it was found even back then but the core Iberian modern groups today def. have continuum from people such as the Celtiberians.

[Jased]

They are Celtiberian... That was way before the arrival of Germanics to Iberia.

Right.. I still want to know what's the true Germanic or Northern European input in Iberian populations, I think in Portuguese are higher but not sure..

[Gallop]

I identify very much with the Celtiberians, but I don't know why the black hair disappeared.

If there are Celtiberian samples, I can't remember now how much Baltic they had

[Gallop]

The Celtiberians of the northwest I think would look like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uGN9efcACw
Everyone wondered who those dancers in skirts were or who they represented, but that's another story. :)

[Gallop]

:)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2VtUnLfws4


The average man in the video was not, this man is not.

Look at the size of the Celtiberian helmets.
https://ep01.epimg.net/cultura/imagenes/2019/12/04/actualidad/1575482125_744526_1575486961_noticia_normal_recort e1.jpg?profile=RESIZE_710x

[Gallop]

This would be a much more representative example of a Celtiberian than the average man in the video. It could look somewhat different from those in the northwest.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIWLAtIBVkg

[Eurafricanid]

Right.. I still want to know what's the true Germanic or Northern European input in Iberian populations, I think in Portuguese are higher but not sure..

I don't know if that's what you want, exactly, but this is the Iberian Farmer vs Northern European Invader calculator.

Target: Spain_IA_Celt
Distance: 2.7678% / 0.02767822
58.0 Northern_European
42.0 Iberian_Farmer


Or this is, maybe more useful, Iberian vs Gaul Calculator:


Target: Spain_IA_Celt
Distance: 2.1861% / 0.02186056
56.0 Ibero
44.0 Gaul

[Gallop]

The Andalusian Leandro Cano is also a good example of what the Celtiberians might have been like.

The Celtiberians of northern and southern Spain would have been very or somewhat different from the Celtiberians of north-western Spain.

https://www.andrespina.es/wp-content/uploads/LeandroCano03.jpg

I am a specialist in Celtiberians because I am from the land, I have sucked it, I am sick of seeing them in different facets.

[Beowulf]

:violin:

[Jased]

I don't know if that's what you want, exactly, but this is the Iberian Farmer vs Northern European Invader calculator.

Target: Spain_IA_Celt
Distance: 2.7678% / 0.02767822
58.0 Northern_European
42.0 Iberian_Farmer


Or this is, maybe more useful, Iberian vs Gaul Calculator:


Target: Spain_IA_Celt
Distance: 2.1861% / 0.02186056
56.0 Ibero
44.0 Gaul

So I'm assuming based on this calculator the average Spaniard Is 40/45% Northern European alike shifted?

[Eurafricanid]

So I'm assuming based on this calculator the average Spaniard Is 40/45% Northern European alike shifted?

This is how the components plot against modern populations (the components were made with ancient populations):


<tbody style="scrollbar-width: auto; scrollbar-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.467) rgba(28, 28, 28, 0);">
Distance to:
Iberian_Farmer


0.06263417
Sardinian


0.09814538
Basque_Navarre_North


0.09821528
Basque_Soule


0.10106818
Basque_Spanish


0.10214582
Basque_Baztan

</tbody>


<tbody style="scrollbar-width: auto; scrollbar-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.467) rgba(28, 28, 28, 0);">
Distance to:
Northern_European


0.02174161
Norwegian


0.02308937
Danish


0.02408754
Orcadian


0.02456677
Icelandic


0.02532671
Scottish

</tbody>


<tbody style="scrollbar-width: auto; scrollbar-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.467) rgba(28, 28, 28, 0);">
Distance to:
Ibero


0.02080831
Basque_Navarre_North


0.02221416
Basque_Spanish


0.02399818
Basque_Soule


0.02421542
Basque_Navarre_Center


0.02460499
Basque_Gipuzkoa_Southwest

</tbody>


<tbody style="scrollbar-width: auto; scrollbar-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.467) rgba(28, 28, 28, 0);">
Distance to:
Gaul


0.01208568
French_Occitanie


0.01363475
French_Auvergne


0.01563651
Swiss_German


0.01594782
BelgianC


0.01673633
French_Nord



</tbody>


This is modern Iberian populations in the calculators:

Target: Portuguese
Distance: 1.5133% / 0.01513348
50.0 Northern_European
22.6 Iberian_Farmer
19.6 Minoan-Like
7.8 North_African


Target: Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
Distance: 1.7339% / 0.01733942
49.2 Northern_European
27.8 Iberian_Farmer
19.6 Minoan-Like
3.4 North_African


Target: Spanish_Cataluna
Distance: 1.6788% / 0.01678773
53.6 Northern_European
28.0 Iberian_Farmer
14.4 Minoan-Like
4.0 North_African


Target: Basque_Araba
Distance: 2.3144% / 0.02314396
58.8 Northern_European
39.6 Iberian_Farmer
1.6 Minoan-Like





Target: Portuguese
Distance: 0.9408% / 0.00940827
54.4 Gaul
23.6 Ibero
13.4 Greek-Like
8.6 North_African/Berber


Target: Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
Distance: 1.1737% / 0.01173693
44.2 Gaul
37.2 Ibero
15.0 Greek-Like
3.6 North_African/Berber


Target: Spanish_Cataluna
Distance: 0.9891% / 0.00989079
54.0 Gaul
34.2 Ibero
7.4 Greek-Like
4.4 North_African/Berber


Target: Basque_Araba
Distance: 1.7631% / 0.01763105
53.8 Ibero
46.2 Gaul

If you want me to publish these calculators just ask!

[Beowulf]

This is how the components plot against modern populations (the components were made with ancient populations):


<tbody>
Distance to:
Iberian_Farmer


0.06263417
Sardinian


0.09814538
Basque_Navarre_North


0.09821528
Basque_Soule


0.10106818
Basque_Spanish


0.10214582
Basque_Baztan

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Northern_European


0.02174161
Norwegian


0.02308937
Danish


0.02408754
Orcadian


0.02456677
Icelandic


0.02532671
Scottish

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Ibero


0.02080831
Basque_Navarre_North


0.02221416
Basque_Spanish


0.02399818
Basque_Soule


0.02421542
Basque_Navarre_Center


0.02460499
Basque_Gipuzkoa_Southwest

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Gaul


0.01208568
French_Occitanie


0.01363475
French_Auvergne


0.01563651
Swiss_German


0.01594782
BelgianC


0.01673633
French_Nord


</tbody>


This is modern Iberian populations in the calculators:

Target: Portuguese
Distance: 1.5133% / 0.01513348
50.0 Northern_European
22.6 Iberian_Farmer
19.6 Minoan-Like
7.8 North_African


Target: Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
Distance: 1.7339% / 0.01733942
49.2 Northern_European
27.8 Iberian_Farmer
19.6 Minoan-Like
3.4 North_African


Target: Spanish_Cataluna
Distance: 1.6788% / 0.01678773
53.6 Northern_European
28.0 Iberian_Farmer
14.4 Minoan-Like
4.0 North_African


Target: Basque_Araba
Distance: 2.3144% / 0.02314396
58.8 Northern_European
39.6 Iberian_Farmer
1.6 Minoan-Like





Target: Portuguese
Distance: 0.9408% / 0.00940827
54.4 Gaul
23.6 Ibero
13.4 Greek-Like
8.6 North_African/Berber


Target: Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
Distance: 1.1737% / 0.01173693
44.2 Gaul
37.2 Ibero
15.0 Greek-Like
3.6 North_African/Berber


Target: Spanish_Cataluna
Distance: 0.9891% / 0.00989079
54.0 Gaul
34.2 Ibero
7.4 Greek-Like
4.4 North_African/Berber


Target: Basque_Araba
Distance: 1.7631% / 0.01763105
53.8 Ibero
46.2 Gaul

If you want me to publish these calculators just ask!


Can i try it? :)

[Eurafricanid]

Can i try it? :)

Thee question was actually open for everyody, so yes, I'm going to publish them right now :thumb001:

[gixajo]

https://i.imgur.com/rP6fqee.png

And this one is from the same site and time but is considered an outlier.

https://i.imgur.com/GCwm0FQ.png

PCA for 3 samples, including i3757

https://i.imgur.com/LHkO6Hf.png

Target: I3758
Distance: 5.5470% / 0.05546990
53.4 TUR_Barcin_N
27.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
19.6 WHG

Target: I3759
Distance: 4.2035% / 0.04203526
54.2 TUR_Barcin_N
25.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
20.4 WHG


Target: I3757
Distance: 6.2519% / 0.06251940
54.2 TUR_Barcin_N
28.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
16.6 WHG
1.0 Gambian

Shows around 1% SSA, but...it´s actually an outlier???


Spain_IA_Celt:I3758__BC_276__Cov_74.66%,0.126344,0 .148267,0.066373,0.014212,0.054779,0.006414,-0.00376,0.003231,0.029247,0.034443,0.002598,0.0079 43,-0.015907,-0.009771,0.010315,-0.01074,-0.021383,-0.001774,0.001634,-0.008129,0.007237,0.00371,-0.007641,-0.013134,-0.005149
Spain_IA_Celt:I3759__BC_272__Cov_62.90%,0.124067,0 .147252,0.067505,0.010013,0.066166,0.002789,-0.00141,0.004846,0.023111,0.033349,-0.003085,0.01109,-0.017096,-0.007844,0.009229,0.008221,0.001434,0.00114,0.0033 94,-0.001126,0.009733,0.003833,-0.005053,-0.007591,-0.00934
Spain_IA_Celt_o:I3757__BC_350__Cov_10.58%,0.114961 ,0.144205,0.058454,0.018411,0.054164,0.003626,-0.01034,0.016845,0.030474,0.039181,-0.000974,0.006594,-0.029583,-0.020231,0.002986,-0.013392,-0.007562,0.007855,0.011941,-0.000625,0.005366,0.015086,-0.010599,0.009399,-0.001676


Samples are from La Hoya site, currently in the Basque Country, and were of the Berones tribe.

[gixajo]

And these 3 ,from 2 very close sites but in Nabarre, were Vascones:


Spain_Navarra_EIA:CRU013_ss__BC_600__Cov_52.91%,0. 114961,0.148267,0.05242,0.008075,0.065858,0.001952 ,-0.010575,0.005077,0.029656,0.042461,-0.009581,0.01139,-0.021258,-0.020368,0.014115,-0.006629,-0.005867,0.003801,0.002388,-0.003377,0.009358,-0.000989,-0.007888,-0.009158,0.004191
Spain_Navarra_EIA:CRU024_ss__BC_664__Cov_36.67%,0. 124067,0.147252,0.052797,0.005168,0.060934,-0.000279,-0.009165,0.002308,0.02352,0.03991,-0.00406,0.011989,-0.020961,-0.026699,0.005565,-0.006895,0.004433,-0.003167,0.007919,-0.007253,0.01672,0.002473,-0.010106,-0.010724,-0.000718
Spain_Navarra_EIA:ERE004_ss__BC_783__Cov_25.41%,0. 106994,0.14319,0.04714,0.007106,0.061858,-0.003626,-0.005875,-0.003923,0.03211,0.042279,-0.001949,0.003747,-0.008028,-0.003441,0.004343,-0.001326,0.001956,0.002407,0.011061,-0.005253,0.009858,0.001607,-0.015283,-0.017352,0.000838

6 samples together, with Davidski Ancient Standard Model:

https://i.imgur.com/NornkAd.png

[gixajo]

Berones:I3758__BC_276__Cov_74.66%,0.126344,0.14826 7,0.066373,0.014212,0.054779,0.006414,-0.00376,0.003231,0.029247,0.034443,0.002598,0.0079 43,-0.015907,-0.009771,0.010315,-0.01074,-0.021383,-0.001774,0.001634,-0.008129,0.007237,0.00371,-0.007641,-0.013134,-0.005149
Berones:I3759__BC_272__Cov_62.90%,0.124067,0.14725 2,0.067505,0.010013,0.066166,0.002789,-0.00141,0.004846,0.023111,0.033349,-0.003085,0.01109,-0.017096,-0.007844,0.009229,0.008221,0.001434,0.00114,0.0033 94,-0.001126,0.009733,0.003833,-0.005053,-0.007591,-0.00934
Berones:I3757__BC_350__Cov_10.58%,0.114961,0.14420 5,0.058454,0.018411,0.054164,0.003626,-0.01034,0.016845,0.030474,0.039181,-0.000974,0.006594,-0.029583,-0.020231,0.002986,-0.013392,-0.007562,0.007855,0.011941,-0.000625,0.005366,0.015086,-0.010599,0.009399,-0.001676
Vascones:CRU013_ss__BC_600__Cov_52.91%,0.114961,0. 148267,0.05242,0.008075,0.065858,0.001952,-0.010575,0.005077,0.029656,0.042461,-0.009581,0.01139,-0.021258,-0.020368,0.014115,-0.006629,-0.005867,0.003801,0.002388,-0.003377,0.009358,-0.000989,-0.007888,-0.009158,0.004191
Vascones:CRU024_ss__BC_664__Cov_36.67%,0.124067,0. 147252,0.052797,0.005168,0.060934,-0.000279,-0.009165,0.002308,0.02352,0.03991,-0.00406,0.011989,-0.020961,-0.026699,0.005565,-0.006895,0.004433,-0.003167,0.007919,-0.007253,0.01672,0.002473,-0.010106,-0.010724,-0.000718
Vascones:ERE004_ss__BC_783__Cov_25.41%,0.106994,0. 14319,0.04714,0.007106,0.061858,-0.003626,-0.005875,-0.003923,0.03211,0.042279,-0.001949,0.003747,-0.008028,-0.003441,0.004343,-0.001326,0.001956,0.002407,0.011061,-0.005253,0.009858,0.001607,-0.015283,-0.017352,0.000838


Distance to: gixajo_enana_scaled
0.02795153 Berones:I3759__BC_272__Cov_62.90%
0.02919877 Vascones:CRU013_ss__BC_600__Cov_52.91%
0.03288846 Vascones:CRU024_ss__BC_664__Cov_36.67%
0.03786684 Vascones:ERE004_ss__BC_783__Cov_25.41%
0.03980339 Berones:I3758__BC_276__Cov_74.66%
0.04333795 Berones:I3757__BC_350__Cov_10.58%

Distance to: gixajo_mom_scaled
0.02910122 Berones:I3758__BC_276__Cov_74.66%
0.03101671 Vascones:CRU013_ss__BC_600__Cov_52.91%
0.03836245 Berones:I3759__BC_272__Cov_62.90%
0.03883892 Vascones:CRU024_ss__BC_664__Cov_36.67%
0.04161111 Berones:I3757__BC_350__Cov_10.58%
0.04273778 Vascones:ERE004_ss__BC_783__Cov_25.41%

Distance to: gixajo_dad_scaled
0.04406007 Vascones:ERE004_ss__BC_783__Cov_25.41%
0.04538035 Vascones:CRU013_ss__BC_600__Cov_52.91%
0.05043721 Vascones:CRU024_ss__BC_664__Cov_36.67%
0.05272761 Berones:I3759__BC_272__Cov_62.90%
0.05406111 Berones:I3758__BC_276__Cov_74.66%
0.05642559 Berones:I3757__BC_350__Cov_10.58%

Distance to: gixajo_scaled(MyHeritage)
0.03850324 Vascones:CRU013_ss__BC_600__Cov_52.91%
0.03909544 Berones:I3759__BC_272__Cov_62.90%
0.04096620 Vascones:ERE004_ss__BC_783__Cov_25.41%
0.04243513 Berones:I3758__BC_276__Cov_74.66%
0.04350514 Vascones:CRU024_ss__BC_664__Cov_36.67%
0.05253092 Berones:I3757__BC_350__Cov_10.58%

Distance to: gixajo_scaled(23andMe)
0.04072598 Vascones:CRU013_ss__BC_600__Cov_52.91%
0.04162669 Berones:I3759__BC_272__Cov_62.90%
0.04369927 Vascones:ERE004_ss__BC_783__Cov_25.41%
0.04411106 Berones:I3758__BC_276__Cov_74.66%
0.04605698 Vascones:CRU024_ss__BC_664__Cov_36.67%
0.05182262 Berones:I3757__BC_350__Cov_10.58%

[gixajo]

Another 3 samples (originally Spain_LIA) to which we could attribute a tribe, also from the Celtiberian cultural horizon:


Cántabros:I19988__BC_100__Cov_11.99%,0.124067,0.16 6547,0.071276,0.004199,0.063089,-0.006136,0.0047,0.01523,0.036405,0.040456,-0.011042,0.0003,-0.020069,-0.014313,0.019815,-0.010872,-0.007953,0.015456,-0.002388,-0.004502,0.012852,-0.004946,-0.016638,-0.033137,-0.002155
Cántabros:I19990__BC_86__Cov_9.57%,0.12862,0.15232 9,0.055437,0.000646,0.07109,0.010598,0.00329,0.004 615,0.035178,0.060685,-0.01835,-0.00015,-0.026016,-0.005643,0.005022,-0.017502,-0.016298,0.005068,-0.011439,0.007504,0.015597,-0.000742,-0.015899,-0.008555,0.002515
Cántabros:I19991__BC_100__Cov_33.29%,0.126344,0.15 2329,0.061094,0.006783,0.056934,-0.006972,-0.003525,0.003461,0.036405,0.041185,0.008444,0.008 992,-0.025421,-0.017203,0.008822,0.01432,0.002477,0.000633,-0.000754,-0.003502,0.008984,0.000618,-0.005423,-0.005904,0.001557


Target: Cántabros:I19991__BC_100__Cov_33.29%
Distance: 4.4686% / 0.04468611
57.6 TUR_Barcin_N
22.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
19.4 WHG
0.2 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Cántabros:I19990__BC_86__Cov_9.57%
Distance: 6.8285% / 0.06828508
60.8 TUR_Barcin_N
22.2 WHG
16.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.2 Han

Target: Cántabros:I19988__BC_100__Cov_11.99%
Distance: 5.7056% / 0.05705603
57.6 TUR_Barcin_N
25.6 WHG
16.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.4 MAR_Taforalt

https://i.imgur.com/O1cnSce.png

[Gallop]

Mirando en la Edad de Hierro en lo referente a los celtas en mis resultados.

Gaul (Etruria)
Hallstatt Culture
Gaul (Faux-Vesigneul)
Transalpine Gaul
Gaul (Bohemia)
Gaul (Bratislava Oppidum)

Hasta el modelo 120 no me aparece el celtíbero

Celtiberian (Iron Age) #Model 120

[celticdragongod]

Distance to: CDG_scaled
0.07340780 Berones:I3758__BC_276__Cov_74.66%
0.07552423 Berones:I3759__BC_272__Cov_62.90%
0.07626890 Berones:I3757__BC_350__Cov_10.58%
0.08636701 Vascones:CRU013_ss__BC_600__Cov_52.91%
0.08769160 Cántabros:I19991__BC_100__Cov_33.29%
0.08818957 Vascones:CRU024_ss__BC_664__Cov_36.67%
0.09552616 Vascones:ERE004_ss__BC_783__Cov_25.41%
0.10464855 Cántabros:I19988__BC_100__Cov_11.99%
0.10532732 Cántabros:I19990__BC_86__Cov_9.57%

Target: CDG_scaled
Distance: 7.0828% / 0.07082755
42.0 Berones:I3758__BC_276__Cov_74.66%
33.0 Berones:I3757__BC_350__Cov_10.58%
25.0 Berones:I3759__BC_272__Cov_62.90%

[R1b-L51]

The Andalusian Leandro Cano is also a good example of what the Celtiberians might have been like.

The Celtiberians of northern and southern Spain would have been very or somewhat different from the Celtiberians of north-western Spain.

https://www.andrespina.es/wp-content/uploads/LeandroCano03.jpg

I am a specialist in Celtiberians because I am from the land, I have sucked it, I am sick of seeing them in different facets.

Sí y PEDRO ALMODOVAR Y EBAI LLANOS también.