Heathenry: looking for sound information and a group.

[The Lawspeaker]

Since Varg and I had this conversation on MSN I wonder where I could find some good information about Heathenry, the requirements and the way in which one could be admitted/converted and groups here in the Netherlands (or good websites where I could find groups).

For now it is just curiosity and I want to find out whether it would fit me. Thank you :thumb001:

[Baron Samedi]

Converted?

So much to learn.....

[The Lawspeaker]

Converted?

So much to learn.....
I know. I received a Christian upbringing, turned Wicca- so hey wth...

[Solwyn]

Converted?

So much to learn.....

Hellasson, you get the bucket and hot oil, and I'll get the rope. It'll be a good old-fashioned convertin'. Somebody needs to bring some Cheetos and cream soda for the mixer afterwards.......:D

I know some folks your way, from differing paths, all heathen as such, so I'll see if I can track down some e-mails for you.

[Tolleson]

Hellasson, you get the bucket and hot oil, and I'll get the rope. It'll be a good old-fashioned convertin'. Somebody needs to bring some Cheetos and cream soda for the mixer afterwards.......:D

:popcorn: :D

[Lyfing]

Hey Tristan,

There is a whole bunch of stuff out there. I wouldn't really know where to point one first. Seeing as to how we are dealing with mythology here I'd read Joseph Campbell books to start with. When I started messing with Heathenry years ago it all really didn't make sense until I did. That is why it say's Creative Heathenry over there.

There is a good little booklet written by Mike Smith called Ways of the Asatru (http://www.scribd.com/doc/2052042/Michael-Smith-Ways-of-the-Asatru) ( seeing as to how attachments ain't working it can be found here (http://www.scribd.com/doc/2052042/Michael-Smith-Ways-of-the-Asatru) ) that I like, particularly his treatment of divinity..


Chapter 2:
The Nature of Divinity and Deity in Ásatrú

Polytheism: n. the doctrine of, or belief in, many gods or more gods than one.

Ásatrú is a polytheist religion which anthropomorphizes its deities. What this means, is that we believe in multiple, individual gods and goddesses that appear or have the attributes of human beings. One of the largest and most important concepts of religion is the nature of divinity and deity. Within the Ásatrú religion, there is a wide road of generally accepted ideas and philosophies of the nature of divinity and deity. Within the context of this chapter, I will discuss five major viewpoints.

The first idea of the divine and deity is the belief that the gods and goddesses are actual, living beings. These beings were created by the unfolding universe. In this thought they too grow, mature, gain wisdom, and die as does everything else in the universe. They are divine in the aspect of them having a longer life span, more power, greater intellect, and that they are our creators and ancestors. Our gods are only immortal in relation to our own life span. They are not omniscient, or all knowing. In this, our gods can understand us better in that they too must struggle to enforce their wills and desires within their own existences. In that, the differences between a god and a mortal is merely by degree. A god's fundamental nature is similar to mankind’s. The extreme position in this idea could encompass taking the lore as pure, actual fact. This is the thought of the strictest polytheists.

The second concept of divinity and deity which I will discuss is the idea of the gods being a manifestation of forces of nature. In this concept, the gods and goddesses of our folk are seen as being the personified greatness of the natural world. The myths and lore are symbolic teachings in which the forces of nature are personified into entities in order to help with understanding.

Although more pantheistic in nature, this is where the religious or philosophical belief adheres to the thought that it is the universe itself and all of the creation within it which are divine. In this strict case, divinity itself is not conscious, but a type of power which permeates, and is central, in all things. Often, the concept of pantheism is confused with polytheism, even amongst many learned persons. For the sake of this work, I am keeping in strict with definitions. In the light of accepting this concept, the myths and lore would be thought of as being highly symbolic.

The archetype is the third concept in which we will discuss. It is based strongly on the works of Professor Carl Gustav Jung, a Swiss psychologist who wrote many essays and works in the 1900's. In his works, an archetype was like a psychological "well" of conscious and unconscious memory in which new life, enthusiasm, and energy for the soul and willpower of the individual, group, or peoples could be found. In his famous essay, "Wotan" he writes;

"...We must go back to the age of myths, which did not explain everything in terms of man in his limited capacities, but sought the deeper cause in the psyche and its autonomous powers. Man's earliest intuitions personified these powers as gods and described them in the myths with great care and circumstantially according to their various characters. This could be done the more readily on account of the firmly established primordial types or images which are innate in the unconsciousness of many races, and exercise a direct influence upon them. Because the behavior of a race takes on its specific character from its underlying images, we can speak of an archetype, Wotan, as an autonomous psychic factor. Wotan produces effects in the collective life of a people and thereby reveals his own nature. For Wotan has a peculiar biology of his own, quite apart from the nature of man."

One should note that Jung’s use of the word, “race” was quite different than the modern usage. When Jung was writing, “race” denoted what we would consider being a specific ethnicity (i.e. the Irish race, the Roman race, or the race of the Franks).

There is a fourth concept of the nature of divinity and deity within Ásatrú in which I will explain as being the patterns of the evolution and deification of the self. In this concept it is the self which is divine, and the gods and goddesses are an internal function of every human being. In this concept and viewpoint, the gods and goddesses are a part of the self and are also patterns for which one is to emulate in order to gain in the evolution of the self.

The gods and goddesses in this thought exist as models for determining what is ideal and what is inferior in the human condition and psyche. In the gods, we are to see ourselves in both strengths and weaknesses. This is because the gods are, literally ourselves, in this philosophic concept. Myths and lore are believed to be codes for learning about ourselves and how to improve the self, in this concept of divinity and deity. In these thoughts, the gods, goddess, and other beings illustrate the conscious, subconscious, and unconscious forces of the self.

The fifth, and final, concept of divinity and deity in which I will discuss is the intricate combinations of the already explained concepts. In this thought pattern, the idea is that the nature of divinity and deity is not to be defined so strictly. It adheres to the philosophy that the nature of the divine is multi-natured to begin with. Within this concept, the idea that a deity could encompass existing as an actual conscious being, a manifestation of nature, an archetype, and as also a piece of every individual worshipper is acceptable in a vast array of degrees.

The myths and lore are accepted as spiritual truths in which some are to be taken literally, some symbolically, and some as teachings for the evolution and discovery of the self. Deities are not only internal, but also external. They are not only subjective, but also objective. The one thought process which must be foremost in accepting this philosophy of the nature of divinity and deity is, to accept the overriding idea that there is no such thing as contradiction.

I don't know if you know much about this or anything. But, there are some contact pages on Irminsul AEttir like this one.. http://www.irminsul.org/aw/aweuro.html#NL I'm not really sure if many still mess with it or not but there it is..

Good Luck with all of this..and I'll post some more later probably..

A few words from Havamal..


Now are Har's sayings spoken in Har's hall,
of help to the sons of men,
of harm to the sons of etins;
hail to whoever spoke them, hail to whoever knows them!
Gain they who grasp them,
happy they who heed them!

Hollander trans. Stanza 165

Later,
-Lyfing

[Baron Samedi]

I must compliment Lyfing on Mike Smith's "Ways of Asatru". Excellent beginning read.

Also, check out "The Nature of Asatru" by Mark Puryear as well. Very spiritual and uplifting book.

For a more continental analysis of heathenry, "Germanic Heathery: A Practical Guide" by James Coulter.

[Lyfing]

Sometimes it can be good to look at people..

Here is Steve McNallen of the AFA (runestone.org)..
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Here is Heimgest of the Odinic Rite (odinic-rite.org)..
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Mike Smith (http://www.youtube.com/user/Vinterulf) made a bunch of videos himself called What is Asatru? (http://www.youtube.com/user/Vinterulf)
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Later,
-Lyfing

[Psychonaut]

I'll definitely agree with Lyfing that the AFA's and OR's heads (McNallen and Heimgest) are two of the best sources of information on contemporary Heathenry. I'd suggest taking a look at these two bits of introductory material from the AFA as well:

Welcome to Asatru: An Asatru Primer (http://runestone.org/introduction/primer.html)

The Asatru FAQ (http://runestone.org/faq/index.html)

As far as books go, I'll echo the recommendations already posted and add two of my own. First up is On Being a Pagan by Alain de Benoist. He gives the best general look at Folkish European religion that I've seen in print:

http://www.radicaltraditionalist.com/images/pagan.jpg

I'll also give a hearty recommendation that you pick up at least one volume (any one will do) of the journal TYR: Myth, Culture, Tradition, edited by Michael Moynihan and Josh Buckley. This is easily the best Heathen publication out there:

http://www.radicaltraditionalist.com/images/tyr1.jpg http://www.radicaltraditionalist.com/images/tyr2.jpg http://www.radicaltraditionalist.com/images/tyr3.jpg

All of these books can be found at either the AFA Store (www.runestone.org) or at Ultra Press (http://www.radicaltraditionalist.com/titles.htm).