This is why Sidelkino HG is NOT a good proxy for Eastern Hunter Gatherer ancestry

[AndreiDNA]

137541137542

The amount of CHG/Southern ancestry in Sidelkino HG is way too high. Don't use it as an EHG proxy, it isnt purely EHG

[AndreiDNA]

137543

Model with AG3 instead of MA1 for ANE. Better pval

[Opie]

Is ANF roughly a mix of Natufian and WHG?

[ScandinavianCelt]

What do these samples show for admixtures?

Georgia_Kotias.SG:KK1_noUDG.SG,0.08992,0.103584,-0.088246,-0.004845,-0.089555,0.020359,0.023266,-0.001154,-0.130486,-0.080002,-0.007632,0.024878,-0.052626,0.007707,0.026465,-0.0297,0.027772,-0.010769,-0.023757,0.037518,0.030945,-0.006677,0.0053,-0.020846,0.001557
GEO_CHG:KK1,0.091058,0.102568,-0.083344,-0.00323,-0.08617,0.020638,0.024911,-0.001846,-0.128236,-0.074717,-0.006333,0.023979,-0.054856,0.004404,0.026601,-0.03275,0.02386,-0.013429,-0.022249,0.034767,0.033815,-0.007048,0.006532,-0.025787,-0.002036
Russia_Karelia_HG:I0061,0.125205,0.034528,0.137272 ,0.204137,-0.015695,0.057451,-0.026791,-0.03046,-0.01084,-0.090571,0.025982,-0.009591,0.022745,-0.048581,0.019679,0.016309,-0.022426,0.0019,-0.006913,0.017258,-0.004617,0.011747,0.007025,-0.020485,-0.008502
Russia_Karelia_HG:I0211,0.126344,0.033512,0.126335 ,0.220933,0.002462,0.054941,-0.012691,-0.011999,0.00859,-0.086015,0.007632,-0.030723,0.047571,-0.017616,0.014386,0.04097,-0.018515,0.001774,-0.005908,0.002376,-0.012977,0.014096,0.00949,-0.027233,-0.005868
Russia_Samara_HG:I0124,0.120652,0.051792,0.113136, 0.204783,-0.005847,0.05773,-0.012221,-0.024691,-0.015339,-0.089113,0.015752,-0.020831,0.022002,-0.036057,0.020765,0.01432,-0.007041,-0.000253,-0.004777,0.008504,-0.011355,0.026462,0.009737,-0.023377,-0.00946

[AndreiDNA]

What do these samples show for admixtures?

Georgia_Kotias.SG:KK1_noUDG.SG,0.08992,0.103584,-0.088246,-0.004845,-0.089555,0.020359,0.023266,-0.001154,-0.130486,-0.080002,-0.007632,0.024878,-0.052626,0.007707,0.026465,-0.0297,0.027772,-0.010769,-0.023757,0.037518,0.030945,-0.006677,0.0053,-0.020846,0.001557
GEO_CHG:KK1,0.091058,0.102568,-0.083344,-0.00323,-0.08617,0.020638,0.024911,-0.001846,-0.128236,-0.074717,-0.006333,0.023979,-0.054856,0.004404,0.026601,-0.03275,0.02386,-0.013429,-0.022249,0.034767,0.033815,-0.007048,0.006532,-0.025787,-0.002036
Russia_Karelia_HG:I0061,0.125205,0.034528,0.137272 ,0.204137,-0.015695,0.057451,-0.026791,-0.03046,-0.01084,-0.090571,0.025982,-0.009591,0.022745,-0.048581,0.019679,0.016309,-0.022426,0.0019,-0.006913,0.017258,-0.004617,0.011747,0.007025,-0.020485,-0.008502
Russia_Karelia_HG:I0211,0.126344,0.033512,0.126335 ,0.220933,0.002462,0.054941,-0.012691,-0.011999,0.00859,-0.086015,0.007632,-0.030723,0.047571,-0.017616,0.014386,0.04097,-0.018515,0.001774,-0.005908,0.002376,-0.012977,0.014096,0.00949,-0.027233,-0.005868
Russia_Samara_HG:I0124,0.120652,0.051792,0.113136, 0.204783,-0.005847,0.05773,-0.012221,-0.024691,-0.015339,-0.089113,0.015752,-0.020831,0.022002,-0.036057,0.020765,0.01432,-0.007041,-0.000253,-0.004777,0.008504,-0.011355,0.026462,0.009737,-0.023377,-0.00946

137550137550
Samara HG through the same model. I will try to find the karelian ones in my dataset and model them too

[AndreiDNA]

What do these samples show for admixtures?

Georgia_Kotias.SG:KK1_noUDG.SG,0.08992,0.103584,-0.088246,-0.004845,-0.089555,0.020359,0.023266,-0.001154,-0.130486,-0.080002,-0.007632,0.024878,-0.052626,0.007707,0.026465,-0.0297,0.027772,-0.010769,-0.023757,0.037518,0.030945,-0.006677,0.0053,-0.020846,0.001557
GEO_CHG:KK1,0.091058,0.102568,-0.083344,-0.00323,-0.08617,0.020638,0.024911,-0.001846,-0.128236,-0.074717,-0.006333,0.023979,-0.054856,0.004404,0.026601,-0.03275,0.02386,-0.013429,-0.022249,0.034767,0.033815,-0.007048,0.006532,-0.025787,-0.002036
Russia_Karelia_HG:I0061,0.125205,0.034528,0.137272 ,0.204137,-0.015695,0.057451,-0.026791,-0.03046,-0.01084,-0.090571,0.025982,-0.009591,0.022745,-0.048581,0.019679,0.016309,-0.022426,0.0019,-0.006913,0.017258,-0.004617,0.011747,0.007025,-0.020485,-0.008502
Russia_Karelia_HG:I0211,0.126344,0.033512,0.126335 ,0.220933,0.002462,0.054941,-0.012691,-0.011999,0.00859,-0.086015,0.007632,-0.030723,0.047571,-0.017616,0.014386,0.04097,-0.018515,0.001774,-0.005908,0.002376,-0.012977,0.014096,0.00949,-0.027233,-0.005868
Russia_Samara_HG:I0124,0.120652,0.051792,0.113136, 0.204783,-0.005847,0.05773,-0.012221,-0.024691,-0.015339,-0.089113,0.015752,-0.020831,0.022002,-0.036057,0.020765,0.01432,-0.007041,-0.000253,-0.004777,0.008504,-0.011355,0.026462,0.009737,-0.023377,-0.00946

Found it! here's karelia HG that you asked for
137551

[ScandinavianCelt]

Thanks AndreiDNA

[Gannicus]

[QUOTE=AndreiDNA;8173167]137541137542

Interesting findings. Someone should tell IllustrativeDNA

137552
137553

[Gannicus]

Is ANF roughly a mix of Natufian and WHG?

Anatolian neolithic farmers are primarily descended from local Anatolian hunter gatherers and notable Natufian ancestry. The Admixture of ANFs varied depending on where the individuals were from. Certain ANFs had 5% Natufian while others had 10-20% I believe. Some ANFs had WHG while ANFs in the east had some Iran_N admixture. Perhaps Andrei could do qpAdm on some neolithic Anatolians for us :)

[Balboa]

Is ANF roughly a mix of Natufian and WHG?

ANF can be modelled as 85-95% Anatolian HG and small percentages of CHG and Natufian

Target: Aegean_Neolithic_Farmer:Anatolia_N_Ceramic_Tepecik _Ciftlik
Distance: 5.2986% / 0.05298643
72.8 Anatolian_Hunter-Gatherer
12.6 Natufian
7.4 Zagrosian_Neolithic_Farmer
7.2 Caucasian_Hunter-Gatherer

Target: Aegean_Neolithic_Farmer:Greece_N_Peloponnese
Distance: 4.9443% / 0.04944311
91.4 Anatolian_Hunter-Gatherer
8.0 Zagrosian_Neolithic_Farmer
0.6 Natufian

Target: Aegean_Neolithic_Farmer:Anatolia_N_Ceramic_Barcin1
Distance: 4.8969% / 0.04896944
92.0 Anatolian_Hunter-Gatherer
5.4 Zagrosian_Neolithic_Farmer
2.6 Natufian

[Balboa]

Anatolian neolithic farmers are primarily descended from local Anatolian hunter gatherers and notable Natufian ancestry. The Admixture of ANFs varied depending on where the individuals were from. Certain ANFs had 5% Natufian while others had 10-20% I believe. Some ANFs had WHG while ANFs in the east had some Iran_N admixture. Perhaps Andrei could do qpAdm on some neolithic Anatolians for us :)

i think some Yamnaya that took the southern route through Anatolia and the Balkans also had some Zagrosian percentage no?

[AndreiDNA]

Anatolian neolithic farmers are primarily descended from local Anatolian hunter gatherers and notable Natufian ancestry. The Admixture of ANFs varied depending on where the individuals were from. Certain ANFs had 5% Natufian while others had 10-20% I believe. Some ANFs had WHG while ANFs in the east had some Iran_N admixture. Perhaps Andrei could do qpAdm on some neolithic Anatolians for us :)

Barcin N as a mixture of Pinarbasi, Natuf, and Iran N137554137554

[Opie]

Anatolian neolithic farmers are primarily descended from local Anatolian hunter gatherers and notable Natufian ancestry. The Admixture of ANFs varied depending on where the individuals were from. Certain ANFs had 5% Natufian while others had 10-20% I believe. Some ANFs had WHG while ANFs in the east had some Iran_N admixture. Perhaps Andrei could do qpAdm on some neolithic Anatolians for us :)


ANF can be modelled as 85-95% Anatolian HG and small percentages of CHG and Natufian

Thanks.

As far as I know ANF is roughly an intermediate between WHG and Levant. That’s why I asked that question.

[Gannicus]

i think some Yamnaya that took the southern route through Anatolia and the Balkans also had some Zagrosian percentage no?

That happened later in the early bronze age. There is a paper by Mathieson et al that discusses the spread of steppe ancestry into the Balkans and Anatolia. Seems to be some steppe ancestry arriving in Anatolia around this time EBA(5-10% ?). There seems to be a couple theories on how that Steppe ancestry made it to Anatolia. Through the Balkans or peoples that were mostly CHG and Iran_N with some steppe moving into Anatolia.

[Gannicus]

Barcin N as a mixture of Pinarbasi, Natuf, and Iran N137554137554

Thanks for that run! I just wish we had more AHGs to look at. To my knowledge the AHG from Pinarbasi is all we have DNA for. Also, I'd love for the academics try to find remains that can be identified as Basal Eurasians.

I wish I was as rich as Elon. Not only would I walk into a Lamborghini dealership and pay for a Huracan with cash, I'd also be donating millions to archaeology and archaeogenetics. lol

[Balboa]

Thanks for that run! I just wish we had more AHGs to look at. To my knowledge the AHG from Pinarbasi is all we have DNA for. Also, I'd love for the academics try to find remains that can be identified as Basal Eurasians.

I wish I was as rich as Elon. Not only would I walk into a Lamborghini dealership and pay for a Huracan with cash, I'd also be donating millions to archaeology and archaeogenetics. lol

I always think about all the genetic outliers walking around and we will probably never know their results, if only i was rich

[ScandinavianCelt]

i think some Yamnaya that took the southern route through Anatolia and the Balkans also had some Zagrosian percentage no?

These are all the samples that show some GanjDareh or Wezmeh:

https://i.postimg.cc/8Cj3ZRk2/yamnaya-zag.jpg (https://postimg.cc/p9MqTnFC)

Most Zagrosian is probably picked up in/through the Caucasus.

These pick up some Belt_Cave_IRN, though it's a low-res sample:

https://i.postimg.cc/mkJsTTZr/yamnaya-beltcave.jpg (https://postimg.cc/q6sYLV3f)

[ScandinavianCelt]

On a quick calc I made, I show this for Gora3

Target: Russia_AfontovaGora3
Distance: 6.1953% / 0.06195253
67.8 Russia_Tyumen_HG
24.8 Russia_MA1_HG.SG
7.0 Russia_Karelia_HG
0.4 Surui

[ScandinavianCelt]

Try this calc for yourself:

Russia_AfontovaGora3,0.095611,-0.017264,0.082589,0.230623,-0.089863,0.044901,-0.062043,-0.080997,-0.033746,-0.09695,0.049853,-0.010191,0.02215,-0.073903,0.020358,0.020419,-0.013821,0.003801,-0.004274,-0.002626,-0.037184,0.015209,0.013804,0.008314,-0.005987
Iran_Wezmeh_N.SG,0.037562,0.072103,-0.165556,-0.016473,-0.11756,0.01506,0.017861,-0.003231,-0.071583,-0.046835,0.003085,-0.003147,0.00669,0.000688,0.022122,0.053036,-0.011735,0.001014,0.014581,-0.035267,0.009358,-0.023741,-0.006655,-0.032896,0.019998
Iran_GanjDareh_N,0.0430252,0.0674312,-0.153488,0.0055556,-0.1239616,0.0243752,0.015464,0.000277,-0.081605,-0.05427,-0.0032476,-0.0016186,0.0053816,-0.0078446,0.0319486,0.056775,-0.0058154,0.007576,0.014405,-0.0327406,0.0076614,-0.0300476,-0.0109198,-0.0387768,0.0229438
Georgia_Kotias.SG,0.08992,0.103584,-0.088246,-0.004845,-0.089555,0.020359,0.023266,-0.001154,-0.130486,-0.080002,-0.007632,0.024878,-0.052626,0.007707,0.026465,-0.0297,0.027772,-0.010769,-0.023757,0.037518,0.030945,-0.006677,0.0053,-0.020846,0.001557
IRN_Belt_Cave_Meso_low_res:I2312_all_d,0.046667,0. 055854,-0.107102,0.029393,-0.100942,0.058288,0.000235,-0.009,-0.064834,-0.059956,0.033614,0.02203,-0.010258,-0.000275,0.057817,0.044285,-0.029597,0.008361,-0.001885,-0.008004,0.013227,-0.016569,-0.023787,-0.025666,0.056761
WHG:Rochedane,0.118376,0.111708,0.178001,0.184111, 0.150182,0.044623,0.010575,0.034383,0.091013,0.028 064,-0.014453,-0.016036,0.013825,-0.002752,0.058903,0.069477,0.002738,0.014189,-0.015335,0.054151,0.101446,0.013231,-0.050778,-0.178459,0.019639
Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I0861,0.01935,0.135065,-0.039221,-0.135984,0.026774,-0.076137,-0.019036,-0.024691,0.100626,-0.008018,0.02858,-0.019633,0.067343,0.001651,0.022801,0.02612,-0.0103,0.006714,-0.018101,0.041395,-0.004118,-0.003215,-0.014297,-0.011206,0.011975
Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I1072,0.034147,0.152329,-0.022627,-0.140506,0.042162,-0.085062,-0.016921,-0.015692,0.12476,0.019317,0.028743,-0.025327,0.085926,-0.004129,0.004886,-0.014054,-0.011213,-0.007855,-0.02074,0.023136,0.01123,0.001607,0.00912,0.003735 ,-0.003233
China_Fujian_Qihe_Epipaleolithic:Qihe3,-0.001138,-0.389963,-0.048649,-0.020026,0.090478,0.035977,-0.0047,-0.009,-0.012476,-0.007107,0.014777,0.000749,-0.009068,0.013212,0.004479,-0.006497,-0.004303,0.001014,-0.003897,-0.007003,0.015348,0.001484,-0.005916,-0.014339,-0.015807
China_Guangxi_Longlin_Epipaleolithic:Longlin_1,0,-0.331063,-0.067505,0.020672,0.055087,0.018965,0.003525,-0.01823,0.023725,0.015126,0.00682,0.018284,0.00743 3,0.007432,-0.004479,-0.008353,0.01004,0.006334,-0.007542,0.023011,-0.004991,0.01929,-0.01405,-0.00253,0.01449
Turkey_Epipaleolithic:ZBC_IPB001.B-C0101_Luk2-Pinarbasi,0.114961,0.167562,0.03017,-0.08075,0.072629,-0.039881,-0.00047,0.000231,0.046836,0.083282,0.004222,0.0077 93,-0.02215,-0.011836,-0.041123,-0.003845,0.043027,0.00114,0.008799,-0.004252,-0.011729,0.006801,-0.006286,-0.010122,-0.007784

My result:

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 7.6748% / 0.07674791
45.4 Turkey_Epipaleolithic:ZBC_IPB001.B-C0101_Luk2-Pinarbasi
22.4 Russia_AfontovaGora3
16.8 Georgia_Kotias.SG
15.4 WHG:Rochedane

[Gannicus]

Target: Gannicus_MergedFile_officialDavidski_scaled
Distance: 0.0798% / 0.07983010
50.9 Turkey_Epipaleolithic:ZBC_IPB001.B-C0101_Luk2-Pinarbasi
19.7 Russia_AfontovaGora3
15.1 WHG:Rochedane
14.3 Georgia_Kotias.SG

Even with other sample selections, G25 doesn't like to assign Iran_N like qpAdm does for myself:

137556

[ScandinavianCelt]

Target: Gannicus_MergedFile_officialDavidski_scaled
Distance: 0.0798% / 0.07983010
50.9 Turkey_Epipaleolithic:ZBC_IPB001.B-C0101_Luk2-Pinarbasi
19.7 Russia_AfontovaGora3
15.1 WHG:Rochedane
14.3 Georgia_Kotias.SG

Even with other sample selections, G25 doesn't like to assign Iran_N like qpAdm does for myself:

137556

my calc is only averages for Iran_N

[Balboa]

Try this calc for yourself:

Russia_AfontovaGora3,0.095611,-0.017264,0.082589,0.230623,-0.089863,0.044901,-0.062043,-0.080997,-0.033746,-0.09695,0.049853,-0.010191,0.02215,-0.073903,0.020358,0.020419,-0.013821,0.003801,-0.004274,-0.002626,-0.037184,0.015209,0.013804,0.008314,-0.005987
Iran_Wezmeh_N.SG,0.037562,0.072103,-0.165556,-0.016473,-0.11756,0.01506,0.017861,-0.003231,-0.071583,-0.046835,0.003085,-0.003147,0.00669,0.000688,0.022122,0.053036,-0.011735,0.001014,0.014581,-0.035267,0.009358,-0.023741,-0.006655,-0.032896,0.019998
Iran_GanjDareh_N,0.0430252,0.0674312,-0.153488,0.0055556,-0.1239616,0.0243752,0.015464,0.000277,-0.081605,-0.05427,-0.0032476,-0.0016186,0.0053816,-0.0078446,0.0319486,0.056775,-0.0058154,0.007576,0.014405,-0.0327406,0.0076614,-0.0300476,-0.0109198,-0.0387768,0.0229438
Georgia_Kotias.SG,0.08992,0.103584,-0.088246,-0.004845,-0.089555,0.020359,0.023266,-0.001154,-0.130486,-0.080002,-0.007632,0.024878,-0.052626,0.007707,0.026465,-0.0297,0.027772,-0.010769,-0.023757,0.037518,0.030945,-0.006677,0.0053,-0.020846,0.001557
IRN_Belt_Cave_Meso_low_res:I2312_all_d,0.046667,0. 055854,-0.107102,0.029393,-0.100942,0.058288,0.000235,-0.009,-0.064834,-0.059956,0.033614,0.02203,-0.010258,-0.000275,0.057817,0.044285,-0.029597,0.008361,-0.001885,-0.008004,0.013227,-0.016569,-0.023787,-0.025666,0.056761
WHG:Rochedane,0.118376,0.111708,0.178001,0.184111, 0.150182,0.044623,0.010575,0.034383,0.091013,0.028 064,-0.014453,-0.016036,0.013825,-0.002752,0.058903,0.069477,0.002738,0.014189,-0.015335,0.054151,0.101446,0.013231,-0.050778,-0.178459,0.019639
Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I0861,0.01935,0.135065,-0.039221,-0.135984,0.026774,-0.076137,-0.019036,-0.024691,0.100626,-0.008018,0.02858,-0.019633,0.067343,0.001651,0.022801,0.02612,-0.0103,0.006714,-0.018101,0.041395,-0.004118,-0.003215,-0.014297,-0.011206,0.011975
Levant_Natufian_EpiP:I1072,0.034147,0.152329,-0.022627,-0.140506,0.042162,-0.085062,-0.016921,-0.015692,0.12476,0.019317,0.028743,-0.025327,0.085926,-0.004129,0.004886,-0.014054,-0.011213,-0.007855,-0.02074,0.023136,0.01123,0.001607,0.00912,0.003735 ,-0.003233
China_Fujian_Qihe_Epipaleolithic:Qihe3,-0.001138,-0.389963,-0.048649,-0.020026,0.090478,0.035977,-0.0047,-0.009,-0.012476,-0.007107,0.014777,0.000749,-0.009068,0.013212,0.004479,-0.006497,-0.004303,0.001014,-0.003897,-0.007003,0.015348,0.001484,-0.005916,-0.014339,-0.015807
China_Guangxi_Longlin_Epipaleolithic:Longlin_1,0,-0.331063,-0.067505,0.020672,0.055087,0.018965,0.003525,-0.01823,0.023725,0.015126,0.00682,0.018284,0.00743 3,0.007432,-0.004479,-0.008353,0.01004,0.006334,-0.007542,0.023011,-0.004991,0.01929,-0.01405,-0.00253,0.01449
Turkey_Epipaleolithic:ZBC_IPB001.B-C0101_Luk2-Pinarbasi,0.114961,0.167562,0.03017,-0.08075,0.072629,-0.039881,-0.00047,0.000231,0.046836,0.083282,0.004222,0.0077 93,-0.02215,-0.011836,-0.041123,-0.003845,0.043027,0.00114,0.008799,-0.004252,-0.011729,0.006801,-0.006286,-0.010122,-0.007784

My result:

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 7.6748% / 0.07674791
45.4 Turkey_Epipaleolithic:ZBC_IPB001.B-C0101_Luk2-Pinarbasi
22.4 Russia_AfontovaGora3
16.8 Georgia_Kotias.SG
15.4 WHG:Rochedane

Target: Balboa_scaled
Distance: 4.3380% / 0.04337950 | R5P
71.8 Turkey_Epipaleolithic
14.4 IRN_Belt_Cave_Meso_low_res
8.0 Georgia_Kotias.SG
3.8 WHG
2.0 Levant_Natufian_EpiP