Urban Living

[Psychonaut]

What are y'all's thoughts on Heathenry as it relates to urban living? Do you think that urban life, in any way lends itself to living as a Heathen, or do the two intrinsically run counter to each other?

I've never lived in a truly rural setting. I've almost always been close to rural areas, but my homes have always either been on military installations or in suburban areas. However, ever since my reversion to Heathenry I've had the growing sense that I should live as far from cities as is practically possible to do. I find this strange because this train of though had never so much as crossed my mind until I began living as a Heathen. Have any of you undergone similar shifts in thought? I get the sense that the closer to nature that I live, the more connection I have to the land and to the Gods. Even in a "foreign" land like Hawaii where our Gods were never worshiped, it just seems much easier and more natural to believe in them when I'm surrounded by non-human organic life. When I'm in the city it's as if I'm oppressed by the enormous edifice of materialism that has gone into the production of the city. It's almost as if the cities themselves ooze this. Anyway, enough of my pipe-smoking-induced ramblings. :D What do you guys/gals think?

[Crose]

City life has always taken energy from me because it is oozing materialism with it's large flashy billboards, and nothing but store fronts. Where are the trees? I always ask myself.
Then when I'm camping I feel as though i've plugged myself into an outlet and recharged to face city life head-on once again. I think if all lived surrounded by nature the world itself would be a better place for us and the environment.

[Lady L]

Great thoughts and thread Psychonaut. Living with a Heathen and being similar myself I totally agree with you. Living out in the country amongst the trees, the land, and mother nature does give many sincere feelings for me. It takes me places, if you know what I mean. :) That's why I have always loved the South. Its all I know. It would be wonderful to travel the world and see all there is to see but when it comes to coming home it will always be here for me. It is the most beautiful for me. It is my dream to soon be out in the country with some land, a home and freedom :D and to enjoy every second of it!

I think it would be difficult for a Heathen to live slap right in the middle of a huge city. It would seem to go against what gives them happiness. They couldn't explore their inner spirituality and Heathenism. Could you imagine walking outside to feel these things and the freeway was in your front yard. :D

I think there are just certain people who find country living to be the enjoyment of their lives. I like those kind of folks :thumbs up

We can't wait for you and your family to come home and give us stories of how living here brought you closer to yourself again ;) :D

[Allenson]

Contrary to Psychonaut, I've never lived in a true urban setting--or, even suburban for that matter. I reckon the closest I've gotten to suburban would be better classed as "bedroom" or "residential". Even in these places though, most houses were set on at least two acres of land where woods & fields are always within sight.

Anyway, my approach to heathendom...and racialism itself, for that matter has always leaned toward the organic & authentic. My racialism/heathenism stems from, and, is a direct product of my strong environmental ethic and my belief in evolutionary adaptation. We Europids came to be & developed our unique forms, both physical & spiritual, in a particular setting. We are best suited for a specific set of environmental parameters & climatic conditions and I believe that to reach our full potential for greatness, we need to be in a setting as close to that which originally gave rise to 'us' in the first place.

Surely we are an adaptive lot and I don't mean to imply that we can't achieve personal or group excellence in foreign climes. We've done well from the deserts of Arizona & Australia, to the taiga of Alaska & northern Scandinavia and from the near-tropical conditions of Florida to the temperate grasslands & woodlands of central/eastern North America. It is the latter of all of these, that I feel we are best suited for and are designed to excell in and also that it is in these zones or biomes that the Gods are more strongly with us. Suut has told me that the Gods are with the kin no matter where they/we are....and I do believe this to be so. But, perhaps it's easier to dial into them when we are in, or, closer to our true ecological nitch.

I can imagine though, that the drama of the Hawaiian landscape is just fine for conjuring up old One Eye. ;)

As for urban, suburban, rural or wilderness settings--it's always easier for me to feel in tune and in touch with the flow of the world when surrounded by more forms of nature itself than when engulfed by artificiality. That's not to say that a person can not connect with the powers that be while in an urban setting...but I reckon it takes a bit more concentration & looking around. ;)

[Psychonaut]

It is the latter of all of these, that I feel we are best suited for and are designed to excell in and also that it is in these zones or biomes that the Gods are more strongly with us.


I can imagine though, that the drama of the Hawaiian landscape is just fine for conjuring up old One Eye. ;)

I definitely agree with you that different types of wilderness lend themselves more strongly to Heathenry. That was actually my first thought when I went hiking out in the mountains here was that I didn't immediately feel the same connection to the land or with the Gods that I did in Northern California (where I'd been stationed just prior). There is definitely something wholly sacred and irreplaceable about vast forests of oaks and conifers that can not be completely replicated in a tropical setting. It's actually for this reason that when we do outdoor rites, we choose the least tropical setting. ;)

[Baron Samedi]

I actually enjoy greatly the radiance of a bustling downtown area in a somewhat big/major city. The energy can be felt, from the music emanating from various bars/cafe's/raunchy places, to the allure of the moon in the sky seemingly adoring every speck of concrete and glass window....

As far as heathenry goes for all of this, however.... I don't truly know. I think living as a heathen can be possible in an urban area, though (with the right kin around).

I would like to see a sort of "techno-heathen" outlook come from my peers in the next decade of so.... Would be interesting.

Another thing to maybe think on.... What if there are heathens residing on a colonized planet, like Mars? What then? Certainly no real "nature" to bask in. Heathery will have to evolve around it's respective environments aka wherever the folk may travel too in their metal Longships! :)

[Jamt]

I actually enjoy greatly the radiance of a bustling downtown area in a somewhat big/major city. The energy can be felt, from the music emanating from various bars/cafe's/raunchy places, to the allure of the moon in the sky seemingly adoring every speck of concrete and glass window....

As far as heathenry goes for all of this, however.... I don't truly know. I think living as a heathen can be possible in an urban area, though (with the right kin around).

I would like to see a sort of "techno-heathen" outlook come from my peers in the next decade of so.... Would be interesting.

Another thing to maybe think on.... What if there are heathens residing on a colonized planet, like Mars? What then? Certainly no real "nature" to bask in. Heathery will have to evolve around it's respective environments aka wherever the folk may travel too in their metal Longships! :)

This is interesting stuff about heathen spirituality. Thank you.

[Absinthe]

Let's not generalize about the "urban environment"...

In a beautiful, clean and alluring city like Stockholm, with its marvellous, awe-inspiring architecture and majestic nature, its open skies, let alone it's nordic population, I personally felt like I died and went to Walhalla. :)

In a dirty, overpopulated, polluted city with tremendous amounts of cars, noise and immigrants, horrible inhabitants and box buildings, absence of green and open spaces...well, you don't have to be a heather to be suffocated and drained of your vital energy....if you know what I mean ;)

There are cities and cities. Even a small, picturesque city like Bratislava could be more inspiring for a heathen than a large, polluted and congested city like Athens.

I personally don't mind the urban environment if it retains some human aspects, such as open spaces, nature, cleanness and polite people. It all boils down to the people in the end. Even the loveliest city can become a living hell, if it has obnoxious inhabitants.

[Brynhild]

I have the good fortune to currently live outside the urban sprawl of Sydney and in the bush, with the coast about 15 minutes away. It isn't rural per se, but it still has the attributes of a quaint village surrounded by National Parks and catchments. It's like the rest of the world somehow bypassed us when it moved south on the freeway.

Since we moved here 13 years ago, I've gained much insight into my spiritual destiny. For myself, my Heathenry goes hand in hand with my environment, but I know some urban dwellers who manage to balance that just as well. I think it equates more with attitude, but a more natural environment helps.

[Óttar]

I am living in Boston, so I couldn't get to a green and open environment if I tried. If I did, I'd have to be with someone. I have spent a lot of time in New Mexico, and there are some towns there that are utterly barren with nothing but shacks and gas stations for miles. One time while riding through a rural area on my way to Albuquerque, I saw miles of farmland and thought to myself "no coffee shop or bookstore for miles, if I lived out here I'd probably kill myself." :D

[Tabiti]

City born and lived in city for whole my life think I'm somehow immune to all urban disadvantages, hovewer I think to go away when get old enough (if I survive, of course) not just in the province, but somewhere with no many people around. Crowds create powerful negative energy, not only cars and buildings. The big amount of people, living on one place make the main problem according to me, not only the waves that technics and machines radiate.

[Absinthe]

Crowds create powerful negative energy, not only cars and buildings. The big amount of people, living on one place make the main problem according to me, not only the waves that technics and machines radiate.

:thumb001::(

My thoughts exactly.

I more often feel drained by the crowd itself, the pushing and shoving, the hateful glances and the negative energy I get from them, more so than the traffic, the smog, the garbage and all that.

Athens is a really overcrowded city. At least 60% of the whole population of Greece is congested in one city - and the beautiful countryside withers away, isn't that ironic?

Anyways, not only there are so many people (which is unhappiness in itself), but it is also not a secret that the quality of life is extremely low, hence people become bitter, hateful and manipulative, seeking an easy way out through corruption.

Financial problems, insecurity about the future, unemployment, social problems, terrible educational standards (students suffer in the greek educational system), pollution, expensive housing combined with inhuman conditions of living (people packed in stalinist type apartment blocks), garbage, illegal immigration and criminality rates having risen sky high...

All those negative emotions accumulated in the collective psyche, and I guarantee that anyone who spends 2 weeks in Athens shall start feeling like "Jesus" after that...crucified and burdened with the suffering of all humankind :D

[Loki]

Well I've been living in and around London for 10 years now ( :eek: ), so I've grown quite accustomed to city living. I absolutely hate crowds of people. You will never see me in the West End either, I abhor anything that even remotely looks like a tourist! :rolleyes2:

[Bloodeagle]

Large cities are suitable to the collective soul. If you do not belong to one of the many collectives found within the city you will probably kill yourself; slowly with hard drugs, and other antisocial behavior or fast and outright.
Most cities emanate the need for monotheism. A strong central command type figure that represents the needs of the whole.
Certain individuals are more tolerant of these conditions than others.
Myself not included.

The European's psyche with its many Millennium of evolution within the
European continent, IMHO is most happy in a natural setting.
The huddling of the masses for exploitation is a Mesopotamian concept that has been forced upon the European en masse by the church.

Not being an official heathen myself. I do nonetheless believe that everyone carries a sort of evolutionary spiritual software embedded within their Psyche. I believe that there are certain images, sounds, smells, and places that will set this syzygy between the mind and nature.;)

[Rainraven]

Well I wouldn't call myself heathen by a long shot, but if I was forced to choose a religion now it's what I'd pick so I'll barge on in and let my opinion be known ;)

I can't stand cities.. The hordes of fake people with their big cars and suits make me so angry. I don't mind my home town because our section has trees and we are up on a hill and I can see the sea. But being in the middle of a flat city, surrounded by bigger buildings where you have to look up to see the sky, I can't stand it. I feel trapped and enclosed, almost like there is someone up there looking down on me. I don't think one should ever forget that there is a whole wide world out there of sprawling fields, forests and oceans. In a city it is too easy to get caught up in your own importance and in your life. I need nature to get away from it all :)

[Psychonaut]

In a city it is too easy to get caught up in your own importance and in your life.

That's a brilliant point. I too find that the more time I spend in the city, the more I get wrapped up in my own business and that I tend to forget about everything that doesn't concern my tiny sphere of influence. Since my personal variant of Heathenry plays very big on the sensation of awe at our cosmic insignificance, I find this effect of city life to very extremely inconvenient to practicing my faith. It's only under the blanket of Mother Night that we're able to realize just how small we really are.

[Fortis in Arduis]

I have to work with, and think in terms of, the five elements.

There are eternal laws which apply as much to the urban environment as to the rural, so it makes no difference to me, although, if anything, I find it easier to manage the elements living in the urban setting.

We live in the town to make our lives easier and London is probably the healthiest place in the UK for me.

[Freomæg]

Two points I'd like to make here. One, that a rural environment is essential for all forms of Paganism, and two, that specific forms of spiritual belief are bound to specific areas of the world.

For me, it goes without saying that nature and relative isolation provide the energies, values and quietness vital to Heathenry. Paganism is nature, nature is Paganism. Materialism dominates urban places and in my (crackpot) opinion, cities were and are used as methods of suppressing the spiritual and physical liberties of mankind. We are trained not to be self-sufficient (something which, again, is inextricably tied to Paganism), we are there to be targetted by all forms of depravity, consumerism and modernism and we learn how to be alone yet always surrounded.

Furthermore, I view the emergence of cities as a key component in the transition of Europe to Christianity. Varg Vikernes wrote an interesting article pertaining to this very point:


The villages in Southern Europe remained Pagan longer, though, obviously because the Pagan cults in the villages didn't have the problem with too large congregations - and I can add that that is apparently why we call the European religion Paganism in the first place, as paganus means "village dweller" in Latin. Christianity was first and foremost a religion for the uninitiated and ignorant crowds of the larger cities.
Paganism: Part VII - Why Did Paganism Fail? (http://www.burzum.org/eng/library/paganism07.shtml)


My second point - that Heathenism is deeply bound to land - is not intended to offend my friends in the colonies. I do of course believe that it is wholly possible to follow your ancestral path anywhere in the world, but for me, the landscapes of Europe vibrate with the ancient echoes of our ancestral spirit. It is in these places that the connections are strongest. This is the reason why I cannot bring myself to seek a (materialistically) better life in New Zealand or Canada.

[Psychonaut]

My second point - that Heathenism is deeply bound to land - is not intended to offend my friends in the colonies. I do of course believe that it is wholly possible to follow your ancestral path anywhere in the world, but for me, the landscapes of Europe vibrate with the ancient echoes of our ancestral spirit. It is in these places that the connections are strongest. This is the reason why I cannot bring myself to seek a (materialistically) better life in New Zealand or Canada.

I'll definitely agree with you (and Dalton I suppose) that the parts of North America that most closely resemble the Western European landscape are most the most conducive to practicing Heathenry. But, I have to ask, at what point after conquering a land does it become ours?

[Freomæg]

But, I have to ask, at what point after conquering a land does it become ours?
As I always say when answering this question, it's a question of degrees - not "it is ours" or "it is not". I'd say the Americas are yours, but they're not as much yours as Europe is :thumb001:. They are places suitable for the practice of European Heathenism, but not as suitable as Europe is.

That's my opinion anyway.

[Óttar]

Two points I'd like to make here. One, that a rural environment is essential for all forms of Paganism

So then what would one call the cults which proliferated in Rome and throughout the Empire? I certainly would consider them pagan in as much as pagan refers to pre-Christian indigenous religion.

[Brynhild]

My second point - that Heathenism is deeply bound to land - is not intended to offend my friends in the colonies. I do of course believe that it is wholly possible to follow your ancestral path anywhere in the world, but for me, the landscapes of Europe vibrate with the ancient echoes of our ancestral spirit. It is in these places that the connections are strongest. This is the reason why I cannot bring myself to seek a (materialistically) better life in New Zealand or Canada.

I can empathise where you're coming from with this, but I would like to drive one very important point home. The Aborigines were - and still are - the earliest known Heathens. This land teems with life. While they aren't necessarily of my heritage and culture, I can't help but feel that my practice somewhat intertwines with their own. There is a deep connection to this land.

Some of my ancestors arrived here nearly 200 years ago. Do you think they haven't left their mark, or kept some sort of gateway open for us to reconnect with our ancestors in Europe?

[Psychonaut]

So then what would one call the cults which proliferated in Rome and throughout the Empire? I certainly would consider them pagan in as much as pagan refers to pre-Christian indigenous religion.

Were they really pagan in the European sense of the word? The original Roman and Greek religions assuredly were, but by the time the Empire grew to cover Western Europe, many of the various religions practiced by Rome's citizens had a distinctly Near Eastern flavor to them. The plethora of mystery religions (i.e. the cults of Mithras, Sol Invictus, etc.) that came to dominate the late period of Rome seem, to my eye, to have much more in common with the early Christian cults than with traditional forms of IE paganism.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

When I first came to Africa I wandered down from the Congo to South Africa Into Botswana a year later. I stayed for 3 months with some Koi_San (Nama tribe) deep in the now called Kgalagadi Disrict. These San people have always interested me.
After all they have a 50.000 year history.
Their culture is fascinating and strictly according to nature.
1.When they kill a buck--a hunting experience not to forget- with their poisonous arrows,they sometimes travel for days following the trail of the shot buck.
They than say a little prayer to their gods and back to their "kraal".
Their chatty click language is sooooo difficult and impossible to learn.
2. The maidens(puber) have a strange orange nipples,which disappears after being "unmaidened"
3. The guys,believe it or not, have a constant 40 degree erection(not actually an erection),while I, sometimes, felt a bit stupid with my floppy disk.
4. They know exactly where they have stored their water calabash in the desert.
5.Their slithery eyes reminded me of Chinese gone AWOL.
6. Being European I found them ugly. Then again Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
8.When the Bantu(Zulu,Xhosa,Ndebele==all Nguni tribes) came down from the North/West of Africa they slaughtered 80 percent of these people. In the history books it is said that the Whites/Boers killed off 80 percent. That is a lie.
9.No tribe has been so hated and prosecuted by Blacks then these people. Little do Blacks realize that Mandela has Koi-San blood in him.
10. Nowadays the San have nowhere to go,drink,and have little of their pride of old left.
11. You might say that the original Aborigines and the San have a lot in common

[Freomæg]

So then what would one call the cults which proliferated in Rome and throughout the Empire? I certainly would consider them pagan in as much as pagan refers to pre-Christian indigenous religion.
Or did those cults merely represent the beginning of Paganism's fall?
To be honest I'm not well-educated on these cults so that's the only response I can give. And I've not said that Paganism cannot exist in urban environments, just that, to me, it is an unnatural environment for what I deem 'nature's religion'.



While they aren't necessarily of my heritage and culture, I can't help but feel that my practice somewhat intertwines with their own.
I'm actually very much with you on that Bryn'. One of my primary interests is the commonalities of the world's ancient spiritual traditions and I agree that there are some fundamental similarities between even Heathenism and Aboriginal tradition. I focus mainly on those early fundamentals when reconciling my Celtic and Germanic ancestry, but it does not negate the fact that the spirits of our European ancestors are better established on European land than elsewhere.



Some of my ancestors arrived here nearly 200 years ago. Do you think they haven't left their mark, or kept some sort of gateway open for us to reconnect with our ancestors in Europe?
Of course they've left their mark :). And ultimately, we can speak with our ancestors wherever we are in the world (because the spiritworld knows not the logistics of our material realm), but I just believe the connection to be stronger in certain places than others.

[Óttar]

Or did those cults merely represent the beginning of Paganism's fall?

The mystery religions were during a time when paganism was evolving into something more monistic like Hinduism is today. A belief that there was an over-arching monistic force uniting the many deities together. Christianity spread because of the Roman network of roads, and along the way it was influenced by Roman religion and other cults (The cult of Mithras being the most similar... Mithras was imported from Persia, he is cognate to the Vedic Mitra which means "friend" as he was associated with friendship and contracts. As to whether this was the beginning of "paganism's fall", it also could have marked the solidification of Paganism had things turned out a bit differently. It's just too bad paganism fell (definitively with Julian "the Apostate" being killed by a Persian arrow.)

[Aemma]

As I always say when answering this question, it's a question of degrees - not "it is ours" or "it is not". I'd say the Americas are yours, but they're not as much yours as Europe is :thumb001:. They are places suitable for the practice of European Heathenism, but not as suitable as Europe is.

That's my opinion anyway.

Great thread as usual Psy! :) I'm slowly making my way through and there are so many great points that have been made that I would like to address but I'm chomping at the bit here so I'll start with yours Cythraul. :D

Although I do understand your point being made here Cythraul and yes I would most certainly agree with it to a large degree, I truly wonder, given today's multicultural world, how true this last sentence of yours would be applicable to a person such as myself.

Let me explain: I am an old stock French Canadian whose family came to establish these lands long before the British settled here, back when it was New France. Over the 300+ years that my family has been here, my ancestors have basically married other French Canadians with the sole exception of my paternal grandfather who married a wonderful English lady from Liverpool, my grandma, whose ancestors were Irish and Scottish themselves. [As an interesting aside, in French Canada btw, I am NOT considered "pure laine" by reason of this very fact! We can't escape that 'one-drop rule' even amongst ourselves it seems! ;)] Additionally, throughout these centuries, my own Canadian settler ancestors lived among other people who were all pretty much from the same 'European Culture' in this area of Canada, that is the French and the English.

Though yes my country has changed drastically over these past few decades, the fact that the French and the English Peoples that have created this country is still deeply-ingrained in my own memory--and not to mention psyche--makes me perceive my country as still a country that has been carved out of Nature by two noble European Peoples.

Compare this now to what I hear about the situation in my ancestors' lands of origin (especially France and England) and I think a strong argument could be made that my own European lands of origin are no longer suitable either to some degree inasmuch as, at present, they no longer represent the Europe that my ancestors left, if you follow what I'm saying. Though the geography might have stayed relatively the same over these last 300 years, the impact of foreign inhabitants on my European ancestral lands over this time period is more than likely significant today thus rendering it these once-sacred lands quite possibly equally unsuitable, for all intents and purposes, especially if one considers the number of North African immigrants to be found in France from all accounts.

I hope the above made sense...I've a hockey game buzzing in my ears. :)

I guess the day I visit the geographical and cultural splendours of France and England which will make my visit there spiritually meaningful to me, I also don't want to run right up against the side of the wall of a mosque, if you know what I mean. ;)

Cheers Cythraul! (But I do get your point though! :thumb001:)...Aemma :)

[Freomæg]

Although I do understand your point being made here Cythraul and yes I would most certainly agree with it to a large degree, I truly wonder, given today's multicultural world, how true this last sentence of yours would be applicable to a person such as myself.
Interesting Aemma. Thanks for your take. I just think that your last 300+ years of ancestry - whilst a most significant era, doesn't fully compare with oroverwrite your previous 5000+ years of ancestry situated on European soil. I get your point, and ultimately, if you feel that Canada is your spiritual home and that this is where your ancestors' voices most strongly resound, then I have no reason to suggest otherwise.

And your point about the poor state of your old ancestral homelands - France and Britain - is a good one. I'd not considered that before. However, I don't feel that the unnatural presence of foreigners here cheapens the spiritual bond we have with it.

I don't know... it's a complicated subject with so many considerations.

[Octothorpe]

I'm just an old farm boy, so urbanity is something that I perhaps will never understand. I can't stand living in someone else's pockets! I moved up north to make the wife happy, and we live in what can be generously called an exurb: sixty miles out from Chi-town. There are cornfields within visual range of the yard, but the neighbors are just too danged close! Where I grew up, having a neighbor less than a mile down the road meant that you were quite crowded. Now, they're just at the edge of my property, and in my hair every time I turn around. Oh, I long for the wider spaces of home!

[Lulletje Rozewater]

I'm just an old farm boy, so urbanity is something that I perhaps will never understand. I can't stand living in someone else's pockets! I moved up north to make the wife happy, and we live in what can be generously called an exurb: sixty miles out from Chi-town. There are cornfields within visual range of the yard, but the neighbors are just too danged close! Where I grew up, having a neighbor less than a mile down the road meant that you were quite crowded. Now, they're just at the edge of my property, and in my hair every time I turn around. Oh, I long for the wider spaces of home!

I am with the only plot of 2.5 hectare in the area.
All other plots are built up with duplexes etc.
It is very nice living,but better a few years ago when it was not built up.

[Fortis in Arduis]

I just feel a connection to the divine aspect of myself not my surroundings and urban environments can be more practical.