Why is my Galician Polish grandmother more similar to Montenegrins than certain Lithuanians?

[uMkhonto we Sizwe]

She's Polish from Ukraine: her ancestry is half Central Polish, a quarter Polish-Ukrainian, and a quarter Ukrainian with Polish ancestry.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/65b8782029a97d1cde3745c74836afe8/94cb7743b3f8364a-17/s1280x1920/0a8d6621ac5090ef35778392fa6351b17a1a4583.jpg

I understand that even Montenegrins have significant Slavic DNA, in addition to her having Balkan and Central Eastern European genetic input. But given that Poles and Lithuanians are neighbours, and Baltic & Slavic genetics are pretty similar, I would assume all of them would be more similar. Or does the Balkan/Central Eastern European genetic input in her make her more Neolithic Farmer in ancestry, and thus closer to Montenegrins for that reason than say Lithuanians from Žemaitija?

[Fistora]

It's common for southern pole to score more neolithic farmer, thus balkan.
Can you send more results?

[Beowulf]

Maybe she's just slightly southern shifted.

[uMkhonto we Sizwe]

It's common for southern pole to score more neolithic farmer, thus balkan.
Can you send more results?

Sure, what kind?

[Fistora]

Sure, what kind?

Periodical - middle ages - East europe,
european pca plot,
Unsupervised - modern - three way or two way

[cass]

The Balts are an extreme case of an isolated ethnic group.

[Vessna]

She appears to be southern-shifted, likely with higher Balkan and lower Baltic ancestry. Lithuanians and Balts in general have minimal southern input.

[uMkhonto we Sizwe]

Periodical - middle ages - East europe,
european pca plot,
Unsupervised - modern - three way or two way
Middle Ages
https://64.media.tumblr.com/5c4640d4846c663abd4954fe97b47f3f/4eb270ce8001fbdc-f3/s500x750/2b6add729ad40f36146c2a2320d6190a0aa4f950.jpg

Migration period
https://64.media.tumblr.com/9ea2c9774f99e65346a0136f4a0cecaf/4eb270ce8001fbdc-aa/s540x810/d8331be56beade463eeb7db8d768a6926285d6ae.jpg

Iron age
https://64.media.tumblr.com/137e7e6c6bcf86bf708c99e3011bcb1c/4eb270ce8001fbdc-60/s1280x1920/df59a39ae8c8186d2a865284fb8dff2fa2e8b610.jpg

Bronze age
https://64.media.tumblr.com/210f0a8bf94f5f2ee0d578197de99b4b/4eb270ce8001fbdc-6e/s540x810/418b7418588f05a405c7d5ce01923605d4e993ff.jpg




Model #1
Genetic Fit: 1.963
C
Circassian
9.4%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
22.5%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
68.1%
-

Model #2
Genetic Fit: 1.965
B
Balkar
9.2%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
22.7%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
68.1%

-
Model #3
Genetic Fit: 1.974
I
Italian (Lombardy)
26%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
67%
T
Tajik (Ayni)
7%
-

Model #4
Genetic Fit: 1.974
A
Anatolian Turk (Balıkesir)
10.3%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
20.9%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
68.8%
-

Model #5
Genetic Fit: 1.985
B
Belarusian
76.5%
D
Dargin (Dagestan)
6.5%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
17%
-

Model #6
Genetic Fit: 1.986
B
Belarusian
79.3%
G
Georgian (Svaneti)
5.9%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
14.8%
-

Model #7
Genetic Fit: 1.986
B
Belarusian
78.5%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
15.1%
S
South Ossetian
6.4%
-

Model #8
Genetic Fit: 1.989
I
Italian (Lombardy)
26.4%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
66.8%
T
Tajik (Hisor)
6.8%
-

Model #9
Genetic Fit: 1.991
I
Ingush
8.9%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
22.7%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
68.4%
-

Model #10
Genetic Fit: 1.993
B
Belarusian
78.2%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
15.5%
N
North Ossetian
6.3%
-

Model #11
Genetic Fit: 1.994
B
Belarusian
78%
I
Ingush
6.7%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
15.3%
-

Model #12
Genetic Fit: 1.997
B
Belarusian
76.8%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
16.7%
L
Lak (Dagestan)
6.5%
-

Model #13
Genetic Fit: 1.999
B
Belarusian
77.7%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
15.3%
K
Kabardian
7%
-

Model #14
Genetic Fit: 1.999
B
Belarusian
77.7%
C
Chechen
6.6%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
15.7%
-

Model #15
Genetic Fit: 2.003
B
Belarusian
77.8%
C
Circassian
6.6%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
15.6%
-

Model #16
Genetic Fit: 2.006
B
Belarusian
77.9%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
15.5%
K
Karachay
6.6%
-

Model #17
Genetic Fit: 2.007
A
Adygei
8.9%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
22.5%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
68.6%
-

Model #18
Genetic Fit: 2.009
A
Avar (Dagestan)
8.5%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
24.7%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
66.8%
-

Model #19
Genetic Fit: 2.010
B
Belarusian
77.7%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
15.4%
K
Kumyk (Dagestan)
6.9%
-

Model #20
Genetic Fit: 2.011
I
Italian (Lombardy)
27.6%
K
Kalash
5.3%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
67.1%
-

Model #21
Genetic Fit: 2.014
B
Belarusian
79.9%
G
Georgian (Kartli)
6.3%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
13.8%
-

Model #22
Genetic Fit: 2.014
E
Even
1.2%
I
Italian (Molise)
26.8%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
72%
-

Model #23
Genetic Fit: 2.014
B
Belarusian
79.7%
D
Dargin (Dagestan)
10.5%
S
Sardinian
9.8%
-

Model #24
Genetic Fit: 2.018
C
Chechen
8.5%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
23.5%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
68%
-

Model #25
Genetic Fit: 2.018
I
Italian (Molise)
26.9%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
71.9%
N
Nganasan
1.2%
-

Model #26
Genetic Fit: 2.020
B
Belarusian
77.1%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
16.5%
T
Tabasaran (Dagestan)
6.4%
-

Model #27
Genetic Fit: 2.022
I
Italian (Lombardy)
24.7%
L
Lak (Dagestan)
8.3%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
67%
-

Model #28
Genetic Fit: 2.023
I
Italian (Molise)
26.6%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
69.4%
U
Udmurt
4%
-

Model #29
Genetic Fit: 2.023
I
Italian (Molise)
27%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
71.5%
N
Nenets (Tundra)
1.5%
-

Model #30
Genetic Fit: 2.023
D
Dargin (Dagestan)
8.1%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
25.2%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
66.7%
-

Model #31
Genetic Fit: 2.025
I
Italian (Molise)
26.8%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
72%
Y
Yukaghir (Tundra)
1.2%
-

Model #32
Genetic Fit: 2.027
B
Belarusian
76.4%
F
French Occitan (Provence)
16.5%
S
South Ossetian
7.1%
-

Model #33
Genetic Fit: 2.028
E
Evenk
1.1%
I
Italian (Molise)
26.9%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
72%
-

Model #34
Genetic Fit: 2.032
I
Italian (Molise)
26.7%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
72.1%
U
Ulchi
1.2%
-

Model #35
Genetic Fit: 2.033
I
Italian (Molise)
25.6%
L
Lipka Tatar
4.1%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
70.3%
-

Model #36
Genetic Fit: 2.033
A
Anatolian Turk (Balıkesir)
6.7%
I
Italian (Molise)
21.1%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
72.2%
-

Model #37
Genetic Fit: 2.033
I
Italian (Molise)
26.7%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
72.1%
O
Oroqen
1.2%
-

Model #38
Genetic Fit: 2.034
I
Italian (Molise)
27%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
71%
M
Mansi
2%
-

Model #39
Genetic Fit: 2.034
I
Italian (Molise)
24.9%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
71.9%
T
Turkmen (Uzbekistan)
3.2%
-

Model #40
Genetic Fit: 2.034
B
Belarusian
80.1%
L
Lak (Dagestan)
10.4%
S
Sardinian
9.5%
-

Model #41
Genetic Fit: 2.034
I
Italian (Molise)
27%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
71.5%
S
Selkup (Taz)
1.5%
-

Model #42
Genetic Fit: 2.035
G
Greek (Central Macedonia)
31.3%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
64%
U
Udmurt
4.7%
-

Model #43
Genetic Fit: 2.036
B
Belarusian
80%
G
Georgian (Kakheti)
5.9%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
14.1%
-

Model #44
Genetic Fit: 2.037
F
Finn (North)
14%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
49.3%
N
North Macedonian
36.7%
-

Model #45
Genetic Fit: 2.037
I
Italian (Molise)
24.7%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
71.9%
T
Turkmen
3.4%
-

Model #46
Genetic Fit: 2.038
A
Anatolian Turk (Antalya)
6.1%
I
Italian (Molise)
21.5%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
72.4%
-

Model #47
Genetic Fit: 2.039
I
Italian (Lombardy)
27.9%
K
Kho (Singanali)
5.2%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
66.9%
-

Model #48
Genetic Fit: 2.039
I
Italian (Marche)
27.7%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
67.5%
U
Udmurt
4.8%
-

Model #49
Genetic Fit: 2.039
I
Italian (Molise)
27.2%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
68.5%
S
Saami (Finland)
4.3%
-

Model #50
Genetic Fit: 2.039
B
Belarusian
80.8%
H
Hamsheni
6.1%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
13.1%

[Peterski]

Order my test for 12 EUR for her, let's see what she scores:

https://www.exploreyourdna.com/DNAOrigin.aspx

This test examines ancestry from 2114 regions, 190 countries.

[Peterski]

I really recommend you my test, it will show you if your grandma is more Polish or more Ukrainian genetically. I also have Lemkos and Rusyns in my database so it is interesting if she will score these populations. I also have Polish Gorals as well.

[Nurzat]

She's Polish from Ukraine: her ancestry is half Central Polish, a quarter Polish-Ukrainian, and a quarter Ukrainian with Polish ancestry.

I understand that even Montenegrins have significant Slavic DNA, in addition to her having Balkan and Central Eastern European genetic input. But given that Poles and Lithuanians are neighbours, and Baltic & Slavic genetics are pretty similar, I would assume all of them would be more similar. Or does the Balkan/Central Eastern European genetic input in her make her more Neolithic Farmer in ancestry, and thus closer to Montenegrins for that reason than say Lithuanians from Žemaitija

these "distance to country average" are to be taken lightly. some countries have such a wide array on a PCA plot that by default the entire population of some regions will be closer to the average of other nearby countries that are close enough and are much more homogenous and have small areas on PCAs.

for example Romanians in the South (proper Romania region, "Tzara romyneaska / The Romanian country") are all clustering very tightly in the same spot while the people in Moldova region of Romania have a wide array that links between Southern Romanians and Western Ukrainians, with most Moldovans closer to Western Ukrainians and some northern Moldovans overlapping Ukrainians in Chernivtsi, Ternopil, Ivano Frankivsk and Zakarpattia areas.

so my point is people at the geographical edge of a population aren't to be strictly measured against the average of that nation - in Romania's case the average would fall in an area no Romanians actually cluster, between the South and the North (in the meantime the G25 for Romania is based on a small sample from Southern Romania/Wallachia, Ployesht), so I would rather look at a "split-by-regions" model. same for Ukraine

[Wend-Kruzek]

Middle Ages
https://64.media.tumblr.com/5c4640d4846c663abd4954fe97b47f3f/4eb270ce8001fbdc-f3/s500x750/2b6add729ad40f36146c2a2320d6190a0aa4f950.jpg

Migration period
https://64.media.tumblr.com/9ea2c9774f99e65346a0136f4a0cecaf/4eb270ce8001fbdc-aa/s540x810/d8331be56beade463eeb7db8d768a6926285d6ae.jpg

Iron age
https://64.media.tumblr.com/137e7e6c6bcf86bf708c99e3011bcb1c/4eb270ce8001fbdc-60/s1280x1920/df59a39ae8c8186d2a865284fb8dff2fa2e8b610.jpg

Bronze age
https://64.media.tumblr.com/210f0a8bf94f5f2ee0d578197de99b4b/4eb270ce8001fbdc-6e/s540x810/418b7418588f05a405c7d5ce01923605d4e993ff.jpg




Model #1
Genetic Fit: 1.963
C
Circassian
9.4%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
22.5%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
68.1%
-

Model #2
Genetic Fit: 1.965
B
Balkar
9.2%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
22.7%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
68.1%

-
Model #3
Genetic Fit: 1.974
I
Italian (Lombardy)
26%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
67%
T
Tajik (Ayni)
7%
-

Model #4
Genetic Fit: 1.974
A
Anatolian Turk (Balıkesir)
10.3%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
20.9%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
68.8%
-

Model #5
Genetic Fit: 1.985
B
Belarusian
76.5%
D
Dargin (Dagestan)
6.5%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
17%
-

Model #6
Genetic Fit: 1.986
B
Belarusian
79.3%
G
Georgian (Svaneti)
5.9%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
14.8%
-

Model #7
Genetic Fit: 1.986
B
Belarusian
78.5%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
15.1%
S
South Ossetian
6.4%
-

Model #8
Genetic Fit: 1.989
I
Italian (Lombardy)
26.4%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
66.8%
T
Tajik (Hisor)
6.8%
-

Model #9
Genetic Fit: 1.991
I
Ingush
8.9%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
22.7%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
68.4%
-

Model #10
Genetic Fit: 1.993
B
Belarusian
78.2%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
15.5%
N
North Ossetian
6.3%
-

Model #11
Genetic Fit: 1.994
B
Belarusian
78%
I
Ingush
6.7%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
15.3%
-

Model #12
Genetic Fit: 1.997
B
Belarusian
76.8%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
16.7%
L
Lak (Dagestan)
6.5%
-

Model #13
Genetic Fit: 1.999
B
Belarusian
77.7%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
15.3%
K
Kabardian
7%
-

Model #14
Genetic Fit: 1.999
B
Belarusian
77.7%
C
Chechen
6.6%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
15.7%
-

Model #15
Genetic Fit: 2.003
B
Belarusian
77.8%
C
Circassian
6.6%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
15.6%
-

Model #16
Genetic Fit: 2.006
B
Belarusian
77.9%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
15.5%
K
Karachay
6.6%
-

Model #17
Genetic Fit: 2.007
A
Adygei
8.9%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
22.5%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
68.6%
-

Model #18
Genetic Fit: 2.009
A
Avar (Dagestan)
8.5%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
24.7%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
66.8%
-

Model #19
Genetic Fit: 2.010
B
Belarusian
77.7%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
15.4%
K
Kumyk (Dagestan)
6.9%
-

Model #20
Genetic Fit: 2.011
I
Italian (Lombardy)
27.6%
K
Kalash
5.3%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
67.1%
-

Model #21
Genetic Fit: 2.014
B
Belarusian
79.9%
G
Georgian (Kartli)
6.3%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
13.8%
-

Model #22
Genetic Fit: 2.014
E
Even
1.2%
I
Italian (Molise)
26.8%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
72%
-

Model #23
Genetic Fit: 2.014
B
Belarusian
79.7%
D
Dargin (Dagestan)
10.5%
S
Sardinian
9.8%
-

Model #24
Genetic Fit: 2.018
C
Chechen
8.5%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
23.5%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
68%
-

Model #25
Genetic Fit: 2.018
I
Italian (Molise)
26.9%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
71.9%
N
Nganasan
1.2%
-

Model #26
Genetic Fit: 2.020
B
Belarusian
77.1%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
16.5%
T
Tabasaran (Dagestan)
6.4%
-

Model #27
Genetic Fit: 2.022
I
Italian (Lombardy)
24.7%
L
Lak (Dagestan)
8.3%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
67%
-

Model #28
Genetic Fit: 2.023
I
Italian (Molise)
26.6%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
69.4%
U
Udmurt
4%
-

Model #29
Genetic Fit: 2.023
I
Italian (Molise)
27%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
71.5%
N
Nenets (Tundra)
1.5%
-

Model #30
Genetic Fit: 2.023
D
Dargin (Dagestan)
8.1%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
25.2%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
66.7%
-

Model #31
Genetic Fit: 2.025
I
Italian (Molise)
26.8%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
72%
Y
Yukaghir (Tundra)
1.2%
-

Model #32
Genetic Fit: 2.027
B
Belarusian
76.4%
F
French Occitan (Provence)
16.5%
S
South Ossetian
7.1%
-

Model #33
Genetic Fit: 2.028
E
Evenk
1.1%
I
Italian (Molise)
26.9%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
72%
-

Model #34
Genetic Fit: 2.032
I
Italian (Molise)
26.7%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
72.1%
U
Ulchi
1.2%
-

Model #35
Genetic Fit: 2.033
I
Italian (Molise)
25.6%
L
Lipka Tatar
4.1%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
70.3%
-

Model #36
Genetic Fit: 2.033
A
Anatolian Turk (Balıkesir)
6.7%
I
Italian (Molise)
21.1%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
72.2%
-

Model #37
Genetic Fit: 2.033
I
Italian (Molise)
26.7%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
72.1%
O
Oroqen
1.2%
-

Model #38
Genetic Fit: 2.034
I
Italian (Molise)
27%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
71%
M
Mansi
2%
-

Model #39
Genetic Fit: 2.034
I
Italian (Molise)
24.9%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
71.9%
T
Turkmen (Uzbekistan)
3.2%
-

Model #40
Genetic Fit: 2.034
B
Belarusian
80.1%
L
Lak (Dagestan)
10.4%
S
Sardinian
9.5%
-

Model #41
Genetic Fit: 2.034
I
Italian (Molise)
27%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
71.5%
S
Selkup (Taz)
1.5%
-

Model #42
Genetic Fit: 2.035
G
Greek (Central Macedonia)
31.3%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
64%
U
Udmurt
4.7%
-

Model #43
Genetic Fit: 2.036
B
Belarusian
80%
G
Georgian (Kakheti)
5.9%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
14.1%
-

Model #44
Genetic Fit: 2.037
F
Finn (North)
14%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
49.3%
N
North Macedonian
36.7%
-

Model #45
Genetic Fit: 2.037
I
Italian (Molise)
24.7%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
71.9%
T
Turkmen
3.4%
-

Model #46
Genetic Fit: 2.038
A
Anatolian Turk (Antalya)
6.1%
I
Italian (Molise)
21.5%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
72.4%
-

Model #47
Genetic Fit: 2.039
I
Italian (Lombardy)
27.9%
K
Kho (Singanali)
5.2%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
66.9%
-

Model #48
Genetic Fit: 2.039
I
Italian (Marche)
27.7%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
67.5%
U
Udmurt
4.8%
-

Model #49
Genetic Fit: 2.039
I
Italian (Molise)
27.2%
L
Lithuanian (West Zemaitija)
68.5%
S
Saami (Finland)
4.3%
-

Model #50
Genetic Fit: 2.039
B
Belarusian
80.8%
H
Hamsheni
6.1%
I
Italian (Lombardy)
13.1%

I think it's cool /illustrative/. Slavic up to 75%. Balkan influence , but that's not a problem either.
Serbs had to come to the Balkans somehow. Just the distance is interesting. They probably don't have enough close samples.