American Indian ancestry

[JerryS.]

In the United States, American Indian ancestry is viewed by European Americans as exotic, and I guess I could compare it to the way Europeans, particularly in the United Kingdom, view Gypsy or Romani ancestry.

In actuality very few have this ancestry. Though many claim to have some great grandmother, that was Cherokee or something like that. I'm interested in the American members here that have such ancestry (or claim such), I'd like to see how that meters out in autosomal DNA. Also, have you been able to trace the ancestry? Such as your maternal or paternal lines to who it actually came from?

[RyoHazuki]

I've heard plenty of close family claim they are partly Amerindian but based on my results that couldn't be further from true. So it looks like it was told by their ancestors to hide African ancestry.

[Mortimer]

I dont know about the UK but in most of continental europe roma ancestry is despised and stigmatised if you have such distant ancestry you dont openly communicate it to everyone

[Smeagol]

I'm not sure why anyone would want to claim Indian ancestry. They were savages.

[JerryS.]

I've heard plenty of close family claim they are partly Amerindian but based on my results that couldn't be further from true. So it looks like it was told by their ancestors to hide African ancestry.

I've heard that too.... to hide shame etc... but no dna test results to support it.

[JerryS.]

I dont know about the UK but in most of continental europe roma ancestry is despised and stigmatised if you have such distant ancestry you dont openly communicate it to everyone

Seemingly in the UK it was viewed as some sort of thing to brag about.

[JerryS.]

I'm not sure why anyone would want to claim Indian ancestry. They were savages.

What races weren't savages?

[Mortimer]

Seemingly in the UK it was viewed as some sort of thing to brag about.

If you brag about it openly on the streets in some countries you can end up beaten
I followed the story of a roma Teenager in bulgaria saying roma are equal and he got beaten up by skinheads because they felt provoced for them roma are not equal they are cigani not roma for them

[5arah]

There are actually more Americans who have some native american(s) in their lineage than enrolled Native people would ever admit to. For centuries before we started death-marching them off their traditional lands and forcing them onto reservations on the shittiest land we could find, there were actually generations of acceptance of intermarriage between white americans and indian people - particularly in regard to the Cherokee, the largest of the eastern tribes and the one considered most "civilized" during the colonial period as well as the early american period. The issue is that these relationships were often between white men and native women and anyone who does genealogy is constantly dealing with limited records of women, a problem that is compounded when trying to trace a woman whose name wouldn't likely be listed in a will or one of the scant other record types you'd hope to find more than a basic first name.

The time when this was most prevalent would have been prior to removals which started in the 1830s when Andrew Jackson defied a supreme court ruling in the Cherokee's favor. The court said absolutely the US had no right to confiscate land from these sovereign nations and Jackson basically gave them the finger and said wtf u gonna do abt it? You also have to consider that by the early 19th century, the cherokee in particular had been mixing with white peeps for like 200 years, so even if your gggggg-grandma was noted as a full-blood Cherokee by birth on a roll, its very unlikely she was actually 100% Amerindian, genetically. Thats just not how they viewed racial belonging. so given the length of time mixing was happening - and then how long its been since then - very low chance you're going to be able to show significant Amerindian segments in your autosomal dna.

it doesn't help either that most enrolled natives in the US have long-refused to participate in genetic testing to improve reference samples. i say its kind of paranoid, but i'll let them slide on being paranoid given everything.

i do have a little bit of NA - but im lucky enough to also have my grandfather's results for working on our native NA and Mexican segments. I know through which ancestors both native ethnicities have been inherited but I have yet to connect a single one of them to a specific tribe or other pre-contact group. I may be getting close, just gotta keep reading all the mission records.

139792139793

[Wend-Kruzek]

Well you can only really think that !
Gypsies have been coming to Europe in waves since about the 12th century - so no exotics :).
Whites came and decimated the indigenous populations of the Americas - also no exoticism:).
USA I take as a better option-Autosomal DNA is easier to identify .



DNAGENICS - G25 Studio
FTDNA
Author: Ayetooey
Algorithm: Montecarlo v1
Fit: 1.17 - No extra distance - Euclidean
East Europe:37.40%- German East
East Europe:36.20%- Lithuanian VZ
Iberia:9.80%- Spanish Pais Vasco
Southeast Europe:8.20%- Greek Thrace
Asia Minor:4.00%- Greek Trabzon
East Europe:2.20%- Lithuanian PZ
South America:1.00%- Bolivian Lapaz
British Isles:0.60%- Irish
South America:0.40%- Bolivian Pando
Asia Minor:0.20%- Turkish Trabzon

I'm taking it with a grain of salt.:):)

and thank you to uncle DeepL:D

[calxpal]

Following since I'm interested in this subject.

[Gannicus]

I haven't found any substantial evidence of Native American admixture in myself. I only see small amounts <1% in G25. I dismiss it as noise or overlap with Ancestral North Eurasian admixture from Steppe populations.

[Vanyx]

I haven't found any substantial evidence of Native American admixture in myself. I only see small amounts <1% in G25. I dismiss it as noise or overlap with Ancestral North Eurasian admixture from Steppe populations.

That's because Indigenous ancestry In white americans Is almost impossible to find, that's like a needle In the haystack you are more likely to find negro ancestry specially If you are a white southern.

[Gannicus]

That's because Indigenous ancestry In white americans Is almost impossible to find, that's like a needle In the haystack you are more likely to find negro ancestry specially If you are a white southern.

No real significant evidence of SSA admixture either. SSA is quite distinct. And the big companies like 23&Me and Ancestry.com don't report any either.

I'll add that it is frustrating doing genealogy. The paper trail gets more and more difficult the further back one goes. I can trace some lines back to the 1870s. But after that its gets murky. Hiring a professional genealogist had crossed my mind. But I'm sure it's quite expensive.

[Peterski]

The Cherokee were historically not the largest of Eastern tribes.

Read my paper about this:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/390349154_Native_American_population_of_the_USA_an d_Canada_Their_distribution_and_number_since_1500_ until_2025

For example the Choctaw were a larger tribe than the Cherokee.

At least based on the data I found.

[Ranger0075]

No real significant evidence of SSA admixture either. SSA is quite distinct. And the big companies like 23&Me and Ancestry.com don't report any either.

I'll add that it is frustrating doing genealogy. The paper trail gets more and more difficult the further back one goes. I can trace some lines back to the 1870s. But after that its gets murky. Hiring a professional genealogist had crossed my mind. But I'm sure it's quite expensive.

Have you tried FamilySearch by instance? I have to add those mormons did a really good job collecting books and informations around the world, I am sure american registers are the most abundant on their Utah's Data storage... I take it by myself, even living in the middle of nowhere and not being genealogist at all, I have got really good results...

[Wend-Kruzek]

I haven't found any substantial evidence of Native American admixture in myself. I only see small amounts <1% in G25. I dismiss it as noise or overlap with Ancestral North Eurasian admixture from Steppe populations.

Presne tak ja si myslím to isté . V G25 mám Surui 0,2-0,8 %.
To je šum. Otázka znie. Prečo Južná Amerika?

[Wend-Kruzek]

Have you tried FamilySearch by instance? I have to add those mormons did a really good job collecting books and informations around the world, I am sure american registers are the most abundant on their Utah's Data storage... I take it by myself, even living in the middle of nowhere and not being genealogist at all, I have got really good results...

I use!!! Very good. :thumb001: At least what has been preserved.
In Old Hungary, uprisings were the order of the day.
Not everything is indexed. Transcription errors are frequent. In certain cases it is good to go through the document /books of births, deaths, marriages/ letter by letter. Oh, and you should be familiar with , a bit of Latin and German /kurrentschrift, schwabach/ and also Cyrillic /azbuka/.;);)

[Figaro]

No known NA here.

[JerryS.]

There are actually more Americans who have some native american(s) in their lineage than enrolled Native people would ever admit to. For centuries before we started death-marching them off their traditional lands and forcing them onto reservations on the shittiest land we could find, there were actually generations of acceptance of intermarriage between white americans and indian people - particularly in regard to the Cherokee, the largest of the eastern tribes and the one considered most "civilized" during the colonial period as well as the early american period. The issue is that these relationships were often between white men and native women and anyone who does genealogy is constantly dealing with limited records of women, a problem that is compounded when trying to trace a woman whose name wouldn't likely be listed in a will or one of the scant other record types you'd hope to find more than a basic first name.

The time when this was most prevalent would have been prior to removals which started in the 1830s when Andrew Jackson defied a supreme court ruling in the Cherokee's favor. The court said absolutely the US had no right to confiscate land from these sovereign nations and Jackson basically gave them the finger and said wtf u gonna do abt it? You also have to consider that by the early 19th century, the cherokee in particular had been mixing with white peeps for like 200 years, so even if your gggggg-grandma was noted as a full-blood Cherokee by birth on a roll, its very unlikely she was actually 100% Amerindian, genetically. Thats just not how they viewed racial belonging. so given the length of time mixing was happening - and then how long its been since then - very low chance you're going to be able to show significant Amerindian segments in your autosomal dna.

it doesn't help either that most enrolled natives in the US have long-refused to participate in genetic testing to improve reference samples. i say its kind of paranoid, but i'll let them slide on being paranoid given everything.

i do have a little bit of NA - but im lucky enough to also have my grandfather's results for working on our native NA and Mexican segments. I know through which ancestors both native ethnicities have been inherited but I have yet to connect a single one of them to a specific tribe or other pre-contact group. I may be getting close, just gotta keep reading all the mission records.

139792139793

That's interesting. Is that a Gedmatch program? On some of their models I get less than 1% American Indian like .30% or something... which I chalk up as noise. I have no American Indian ancestry.

[Gannicus]

Presne tak ja si myslím to isté . V G25 mám Surui 0,2-0,8 %.
To je šum. Otázka znie. Prečo Južná Amerika?

Good question. I don't know.