Bosnia: Positive or Negative?

[Hurrem sultana]

How do you view Bosnia and Herzegovina,vote and explain? in a positive or in a negative way?

[Siberyak]

I only like the republic of SRPSKA :)

[Hurrem sultana]

I only like the republic of SRPSKA :)

that's Bosnia ;)

[Siberyak]

Can they break free and Join Serbia? Milorad dodik doesn't seem to fond of Bosniaks

[Hurrem sultana]

no they cant

[Sylvanus]

Bosnia je Mađarska. :D
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Louis_role.jpg

[Siberyak]

Mr. Dodik came to speak here in the USA and there was a protest outside of where he was speaking. Local Bosnians came to protest him claiming he was Srebrenica denier.

[Siberyak]

no they cant

Why Not? Just wondering?

[Hess]

I am a Pan-European nationalist, I love every European country :thumb001:

[Peyrol]

Bosnia?

The national flag is horrible. Why don't create a new one with the classic panslavic colours?

[Joe McCarthy]

Positive, though for reasons of personal safety I probably wouldn't travel there, particularly the Serb areas. ;)

[Grumpy Cat]

I don't know much about the country, really. I've met some Bosnians, though, and they seemed pretty cool.

One guy has pictures on his Facebook that were taken in Bosnia. Beautiful.

[Turkophagos]

Negative.

It's Serbian land occupied by Moors and Franks.

[Piparskeggr]

Truthfully, ambivalent, as neither country affects my life directly.

[Loddfafner]

Neither the words "positive" nor "negative" capture my reaction to the place. Visting Mostar in 2002 was one of the more overwhelming and also fascinating experiences of my life. I was stunned to discover that different parts of the bus station used different currencies, complicating the basic tasks of using the toilet, buying a postcard, and getting a snack. I had heard that I could use Croatian kunas, but the bathroom attendant refused to accept them. I had to piss badly after the long bus ride from Korcula past ruins ancient and modern, so found a postcard stand that would take Euros and returned change in Bosnian marks, allowing me to finally piss. The attendant was slumped over a table next to a bottle at the at point, so I threw down a bosnian mark and emptied my bladder.

That was my welcome to Bosnia.

I noted that every single surface was covered in bullet holes exepct for some sleek mosque that the Saudi government had just donated. I bought some post cards and looked for the ruins of whatever it was the post card showed. In my scrapbook, I labelled my cards "before", and my photos, "after". There were signs that seemed to say "no parking: landmines". I found a place to eat under the ruins of the famous bridge. I never did find out if what I ate was a Serbian roast or a roasted Serb.

I regret that I decided to return to Split instead of venturing further into the Bosnia.

Om a separate note, as a stamp collector I really like the Hapsburg-era issues from Bosnia. Although I have managed to track down issues from each of Bosnia's current fragments, I am sad that their design quality is poor, especially in comparison with the older stamps.

[Dilberth]

Neither the words "positive" nor "negative" capture my reaction to the place. Visting Mostar in 2002 was one of the more overwhelming and also fascinating experiences of my life. I was stunned to discover that different parts of the bus station used different currencies, complicating the basic tasks of using the toilet, buying a postcard, and getting a snack. I had heard that I could use Croatian kunas, but the bathroom attendant refused to accept them. I had to piss badly after the long bus ride from Korcula past ruins ancient and modern, so found a postcard stand that would take Euros and returned change in Bosnian marks, allowing me to finally piss. The attendant was slumped over a table next to a bottle at the at point, so I threw down a bosnian mark and emptied my bladder.

That was my welcome to Bosnia.

I noted that every single surface was covered in bullet holes exepct for some sleek mosque that the Saudi government had just donated. I bought some post cards and looked for the ruins of whatever it was the post card showed. In my scrapbook, I labelled my cards "before", and my photos, "after". There were signs that seemed to say "no parking: landmines". I found a place to eat under the ruins of the famous bridge. I never did find out if what I ate was a Serbian roast or a roasted Serb.

I regret that I decided to return to Split instead of venturing further into the Bosnia.

Om a separate note, as a stamp collector I really like the Hapsburg-era issues from Bosnia. Although I have managed to track down issues from each of Bosnia's current fragments, I am sad that their design quality is poor, especially in comparison with the older stamps.

Would you agree that going from Croatia to Bosnia is like going from Europe to Afganistan?

[Joe McCarthy]

Truthfully, ambivalent, as neither country affects my life directly.

Hmmm, the actions of this man in Sarajevo nearly a century ago certainly has had an effect on our society and thus our lives:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip

[Piparskeggr]

Hmmm, the actions of this man in Sarajevo nearly a century ago certainly has had an effect on our society and thus our lives:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip

I am well aware of that part of the origin of the first world war of the 20th century. But as I live today, what direct effects do I feel, other than my boyhood acquaintance with veterans of that conflict, and having had a great grand uncle killed in France?

Not so many as to be noticeable.

My wife feels a much more direct effect I think.

Her mother's family fled Odessa in 1917, Istanbul in 1921 and then Athens (for the US) in 1947.

We have a picture in the front hall of her paternal grandfather in his uniform from when he served during the 2nd Balkan War, Greek army.

There is much more direct effect upon me from the more recent conflicts.

[zack]

Nothing positive nor negative.

[Loddfafner]

Would you agree that going from Croatia to Bosnia is like going from Europe to Afganistan?

Well, when I crossed the border I had the distinct impression of entering a third world version of Croatia. I have not been to Mexico but imagine the experience of crossing my own southern border would have been similar.The difference was stark. I have to confess that the site of real minarets just seemed exotic and cool in a Bart Simpson kind of way.

[Loki]

In a very positive way.

[Svarog]

Hmmm, the actions of this man in Sarajevo nearly a century ago certainly has had an effect on our society and thus our lives:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip

The actions of that man?

I still laugh to people accusing Serbs and that guy for starting a world war, that is just ridiculously stupid. War was hanging in the air for a long time and all needed for the invasion of Serbia was an event of some kind to start it. Which country starts a war out of complete peace because of the action of one lunatic beside USA maybe. It was hardly a excuse for a well prepared and thought through plan.


Bosnia?

The national flag is horrible. Why don't create a new one with the classic panslavic colours?

Turks wearing pan slavic colours.. *Vomits*

[TheBorrebyViking]

It'd be good if Islam was gone, but it's not gone in Bosnia, so I voted bad.

[Hurrem sultana]

Neither the words "positive" nor "negative" capture my reaction to the place. Visting Mostar in 2002 was one of the more overwhelming and also fascinating experiences of my life. I was stunned to discover that different parts of the bus station used different currencies, complicating the basic tasks of using the toilet, buying a postcard, and getting a snack. I had heard that I could use Croatian kunas, but the bathroom attendant refused to accept them. I had to piss badly after the long bus ride from Korcula past ruins ancient and modern, so found a postcard stand that would take Euros and returned change in Bosnian marks, allowing me to finally piss. The attendant was slumped over a table next to a bottle at the at point, so I threw down a bosnian mark and emptied my bladder.

That was my welcome to Bosnia.

I noted that every single surface was covered in bullet holes exepct for some sleek mosque that the Saudi government had just donated. I bought some post cards and looked for the ruins of whatever it was the post card showed. In my scrapbook, I labelled my cards "before", and my photos, "after". There were signs that seemed to say "no parking: landmines". I found a place to eat under the ruins of the famous bridge. I never did find out if what I ate was a Serbian roast or a roasted Serb.

I regret that I decided to return to Split instead of venturing further into the Bosnia.

Om a separate note, as a stamp collector I really like the Hapsburg-era issues from Bosnia. Although I have managed to track down issues from each of Bosnia's current fragments, I am sad that their design quality is poor, especially in comparison with the older stamps.

It was 2002,just few years before we had a terrible war! you should come back now,Mostar is wonderful,,most tourists come to the old town to see the bridge,mosque and all

[TheBorrebyViking]

Positive of course.Good and moderate people they don't posses any problem to integrate in any European society.

Islam.

[Hevneren]

Due to the civil war and the behaviour of some Bosnians here (especially males), I would say my impression is mostly negative, although I've seen pictures of nice sites there, like Mostar. I'm sure most Bosnians are decent people too, but sadly other factors overshadow this.

[Hurrem sultana]

Islam.

americans:rolleyes2:

[Hurrem sultana]

Due to the civil war and the behaviour of some Bosnians here (especially males), I would say my impression is mostly negative, although I've seen pictures of nice sites there, like Mostar. I'm sure most Bosnians are decent people too, but sadly other factors overshadow this.

i agree with you about the males

[TheBorrebyViking]

americans:rolleyes2:

He said a thing that would stop them from fitting in, and that's Islam. Islam is a shitty religion that worships a paedophile.

[Siberyak]

I would only care to visit medjugorge. I think thats how its spelled.

[Absinthe]

I have never been to Bosnia so I have neither positive nor negative remarks.

I must say I am intrigued by the combination of cultural influences, I would definitely like to visit one day and see for myself. *must* see the bridge of Mostar ;)

[rhiannon]

How do you view Bosnia and Herzegovina,vote and explain? in a positive or in a negative way?

I honestly don't know enough about them to make an informed choice. I remember hearing and reading about their civil war in the 90s or thereabouts...plus, prior the the dissolution of the Iron Curtain, all of that area pretty much fell under the umbrella of Yugoslavia if I'm not mistaken.

Honestly, my best answer is that there is good and bad in all nations and all peoples. I judge a person by their character, not by their race/ethnicity/religion/etc.

[rhiannon]

americans:rolleyes2:

Don't mind him:rolleyes: He is not a good representation of your average American young person, lol

[TheBorrebyViking]

Don't mind him:rolleyes: He is not a good representation of your average American young person, lol

For being so "protective" of your young, you sure do love a vile and evil religion that mistreats its young.

[Svarog]

I honestly don't know enough about them to make an informed choice. I remember hearing and reading about their civil war in the 90s or thereabouts...plus, prior the the dissolution of the Iron Curtain, all of that area pretty much fell under the umbrella of Yugoslavia if I'm not mistaken.

Iron Curtain has nothing to do with Bosnia or hardly this part of Europe, and none of the countries were forced to join Yugoslavia to start with.

[Siberyak]

Don't mind him:rolleyes: He is not a good representation of your average American young person, lol

Are you kidding me? Have you seen Americas youth today.?

[TheBorrebyViking]

Are you kidding me? Have you seen Americas youth today.?

What? Are you implying I'm a emo, wigger, or something? I know not a single person my age in America that is Nationalistic and isn't some idiot that loves Islam and other vile shit.

[rhiannon]

For being so "protective" of your young, you sure do love a vile and evil religion that mistreats its young.

Oh go fuck yourself and stop putting words in other people's mouths:rolleyes:

[rhiannon]

Are you kidding me? Have you seen Americas youth today.?

Of the ones I tend to know and be associated with....he is NOT the norm, lol

And no....I don't associate with or know any wiggers lol

[TheBorrebyViking]

Oh go fuck yourself and stop putting words in other people's mouths:rolleyes:

You said you're protective of your young, but you are sucking up to a vile religion that would mistreat your children. I didn't put any words in people's mouths.

[rhiannon]

Iron Curtain has nothing to do with Bosnia or hardly this part of Europe, and none of the countries were forced to join Yugoslavia to start with.

Wasn't Bosnia once part of Yugoslavia? I could have sworn it was? If I am incorrect, then my apologies on the misinformation:)

[Aces High]

There should be a third option.

Indifferent.

[TheBorrebyViking]

Of the ones I tend to know and be associated with....he is NOT the norm, lol

And no....I don't associate or know any wiggers lol

Not my fault that people my age are lacking good morals.

[TheBorrebyViking]

Wasn't Bosnia once part of Yugoslavia? I could have sworn it was? If I am incorrect, then my apologies on the misinformation:)

Yugoslavia wasn't part of the Iron Curtain.

[rhiannon]

You said you're protective of your young, but you are sucking up to a vile religion that would mistreat your children. I didn't put any words in people's mouths.

Dude...your complete and utter LACK of maturity is showing. STOP reading into the things people say.

By the way, young man, and I can damn well call you that because I am MORE than old enough to be your mother.....I have a fucking newsflash for you:

A nice lady like Bosnian is certainly not going to subscribe to the extremist form of Islam people like YOU mistake ALL Muslims for following.

Again, I judge a person as an individual first and foremost.

Can you kindly understand and STFU about it already.

[rhiannon]

There should be a third option.

Indifferent.

There is. It's the I don't care option....lol

[rhiannon]

Yugoslavia wasn't part of the Iron Curtain.

I don't trust a word you say and would much prefer to hear from Bosnian or somebody who is gonna know what the hell they are talking about;)

[TheBorrebyViking]

I don't trust a word you say and would much prefer to hear from Bosnian or somebody who is gonna know what the hell they are talking about;)
>Complaining about immaturity
>Being immature yourself
They were a third party.

Dude...your complete and utter LACK of maturity is showing. STOP reading into the things people say.

By the way, young man, and I can damn well call you that because I am MORE than old enough to be your mother.....I have a fucking newsflash for you:

A nice lady like Bosnian is certainly not going to subscribe to the extremist form of Islam people like YOU mistake ALL Muslims for following.

Again, I judge a person as an individual first and foremost.

Can you kindly understand and STFU about it already.

She follows the religion. Islam at it's root is vile and disgusting, not saying all are extremists, but instead I am saying the whole religion is shit. A fucking dirty paedophile worshiping cult. Also, why do I need to stop "reading into things people say"?

[rhiannon]

She follows the religion. Islam at it's root is vile and disgusting, not saying all are extremists, but instead I am saying the whole religion is shit. A fucking dirty paedophile worshiping cult. Also, why do I need to stop "reading into things people say"?

I give up. It's obvious you missed my point.

So, nevermind.

FYI: I may blow up at you sometimes....but you are just a kid and all....so it's not as if you won't mature somewhat, and I do cut you that amount of slack;)

[TheBorrebyViking]

I give up. It's obvious you missed my point.

So, nevermind.

FYI: I may blow up at you sometimes....but you are just a kid and all....so it's not as if you won't mature somewhat, and I do cut you that amount of slack;)

You're point was not all Muslims are extremists, but even following that religion is shit. It's a shit religion. Fuck Islam and fuck their false prophet.

[rhiannon]

You're point was not all Muslims are extremists, but even following that religion is shit. It's a shit religion. Fuck Islam and fuck their false prophet.

Well, seeing as you are speaking to someone who hates most all religion....I raise you a:

(insert your choice of religion here) is a shit religion.
Fuck (blank) and fuck their false prophet...

However, the reality of it is that a religion really can only be a convoluted as its followers make it out to be. This goes for all religions, IMO.....even Islam;)

I am sure our Muslim members on this board are not following the brand of Islam you call vile. It may very well just be a matter of tradition....as religion tends to be for many people.

[TheBorrebyViking]

Well, seeing as you are speaking to someone who hates most all religion....I raise you a:

(insert your choice of religion here) is a shit religion.
Fuck (blank) and fuck their false prophet...

However, the reality of it is that a religion really can only be a convoluted as its followers make it out to be. This goes for all religions, IMO.....even Islam;)

I am sure our Muslim members on this board are not following the brand of Islam you call vile. It may very well just be a matter of tradition....as religion tends to be for many people.

They like that paedophile, no matter how much they follow it. That is enough for it to be vile.

[rhiannon]

They like that paedophile, no matter how much they follow it. That is enough for it to be vile.

Go check out the FLDS living right here on American soil. They are our home-grown version of the Taliban:mad: Incest, pedophilia, and polygamy are all rampant.

[The Lawspeaker]

An outpost of Wahhabism and other forms of Islam in the heart of Europe. I only consider European foreigners and the Croats and Serbs to be the European face of Bosnia. The rest ceased being European a long time ago.

[Svarog]

Wasn't Bosnia once part of Yugoslavia? I could have sworn it was? If I am incorrect, then my apologies on the misinformation:)

Bosnia was yes, but Yugoslavia was not part of the iron curtain, quite opposite, Russia and Yugoslavia were hostila toward each other and Yugoslavia was pro-American/westerner oriented and was heavily supported by American money. Yugoslavia was thorn in the Stalin's eye as always desired yet never aquired territory, later after Stalin's death relationship between Yu and USSR got bit better

[rhiannon]

Bosnia was yes, but Yugoslavia was not part of the iron curtain, quite opposite, Russia and Yugoslavia were hostila toward each other and Yugoslavia was pro-American/westerner oriented and was heavily supported by American money. Yugoslavia was thorn in the Stalin's eye as always desired yet never aquired territory, later after Stalin's death relationship between Yu and USSR got bit better

Thank you for the clarification:)

[Siberyak]

Go check out the FLDS living right here on American soil. They are our home-grown version of the Taliban:mad: Incest, pedophilia, and polygamy are all rampant.

No these are good whites. These people tends to have a lot of children. Same with the Amish. We need religious groups with this mentality to help prolong our people on this earth.

[TheBorrebyViking]

Go check out the FLDS living right here on American soil. They are our home-grown version of the Taliban:mad: Incest, pedophilia, and polygamy are all rampant.

Okay? I dislike them too(I don't like Mormonism at all really). They are not like the Taliban though. Islam(as a whole) is more akin to LDS than anything.



No these are good whites. These people tends to have a lot of children. Same with the Amish. We need religious groups with this mentality to help prolong our people on this earth.
No we don't, you sicko. We don't need paedophiles at all. Amish are good, Paedophiles are not.

[Hurrem sultana]

An outpost of Wahhabism and other forms of Islam in the heart of Europe. I only consider European foreigners and the Croats and Serbs to be the European face of Bosnia. The rest ceased being European a long time ago.

i guess thats why your people helped the serbs in srebrenica...where my grandfather and mothers brother got killed too!:rolleyes:

[Siberyak]

i guess thats why your people helped the serbs in srebrenica...where my grandfather and mothers brother got killed too!:rolleyes:

naser oric behaved like a monster also.

[rhiannon]

No these are good whites. These people tends to have a lot of children. Same with the Amish. We need religious groups with this mentality to help prolong our people on this earth.

I don't wish to see a proliferation of any people, white or not, who make polygamy, pedophilia, and incest a regular practice.

Read this book:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dc/Under_the_Banner_of_Heaven.jpg
I guarantee you, this will change your mind

another good one, and told from the inside:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5EdqE-nmKpM/S8xb-oVVunI/AAAAAAAABBc/rfwGJIIlriM/s1600/escape_carolynjessop.jpg

[Der Steinadler]

Wasn't Bosnia originally a buffer state ?

[Flintlocke]

Bosnia is not a real nation, just a mix of Croatians and Serbs, some of which follow the Islamic religion. Give it back to Croatia.

[Svarog]

i guess thats why your people helped the serbs in srebrenica...where my grandfather and mothers brother got killed too!:rolleyes:

Not that I condone or support any murders of innocent people

I think after you burn couple of villages and massacre tons of innocent people on their Christmass, vengance is to be expected, and no one retaliate as Serbs do and you should have had know that before you killed all those innocent people, so stop whining since your mujahedins started the slaughter and Serbs and Greeks ended it.

[Siberyak]

Not that I condone or support any murders of innocent people

I think after you burn couple of villages and massacre tons of innocent people on their Christmass, vengance is to be expected, and no one retaliate as Serbs do and you should have had know that before you killed all those innocent people, so stop whining since your mujahedins started the slaughter and Serbs and Greeks ended it.

Why isnt Bosnian condeming the crimes of naser oric?

[Pallantides]

As long as they don't poop in my garden I really don't care.

[Hevneren]

As long as they don't poop in my garden I really don't care.

That's more of a Polish/Gypsy thing, though.

[Hurrem sultana]

Why isnt Bosnian condeming the crimes of naser oric?

i condemn all kinds of crime,no matter where they come from,but the fact still remains...srebrenica crime is genocide,biggest in Europe since world war II,only serbs can be proud of something like that ;)

[The Ripper]

Aramis alone tips Bosnia into the "positive". Poor Aramis, where is he now I wonder, aimlessly stalking the interwebs?

[Svarog]

i condemn all kinds of crime,no matter where they come from,but the fact still remains...srebrenica crime is genocide,biggest in Europe since world war II,only serbs can be proud of something like that ;)

First of all, I don't think anyone is proud of that, but, then again that WAS a war.

Most of ppl shot in srebrenica were male that threw weapons 15 minutes before they got cought.

This is what Bosnians are proud of, this is English movie.

And by your logic, death of one person is a tragedy, death of a millions is a statistic, so what, now Bosnians are new Jews? i don't get it.

DJrNeZgnj7Y

[Hurrem sultana]

First of all, I don't think anyone is proud of that, but, then again that WAS a war.

Most of ppl shot in srebrenica were male that threw weapons 15 minutes before they got cought.

This is what Bosnians are proud of, this is English movie.

And by your logic, death of one person is a tragedy, death of a millions is a statistic, so what, now Bosnians are new Jews? i don't get it.




whaat?? boys age 15 got killed, my grandpa was over 60 so what threat is there? and yes,the genocide in Srebrenica is recognized,and it is the biggest since world war II

[hajduk]

I have a positive view on the christians. I dont feel any kinship with the muslims there. They should be forced to change religion or sent back to Turkey

[The Lawspeaker]

i guess thats why your people helped the serbs in srebrenica...where my grandfather and mothers brother got killed too!:rolleyes:
Tough shit, amigo. We were abandoned by the UN and left to rot by the frogs and yanks. What could 450 unarmed men do against a multitude of Serb forces that were armed to the teeth and eager for revenge after the shit that Naser Orić and his gang of misfits, looters and rapists had pulled ? Sorry.. but I consider each Dutchman to have the equivalent value of 1.000.000 of your Mudjahedeen rapists.

[TheBorrebyViking]

whaat?? boys age 15 got killed, my grandpa was over 60 so what threat is there? and yes,the genocide in Srebrenica is recognized,and it is the biggest since world war II

Lol, the USSR and their purges were far worse in total numbers.

[Svarog]

whaat?? boys age 15 got killed, my grandpa was over 60 so what threat is there? and yes,the genocide in Srebrenica is recognized,and it is the biggest since world war II

As I said, I feel trully sorry for the innocent victims. I don't deny there was criminals in Serbian forces, but claiming you guys were all innocent and your army was crimless is stupid.

As for the Dutch, I find the fact that they were let to leave unharmed rather noble, they could have try and fight and they would get killed, same as they could have been killed when they surrendered, and thats not the same courtesy your mujahedins would give them. Would prolly behead them in the name of Alah as they did to everyone they cought, those videos i won't post because they are gruesome but everyone intereseted can easily youtube them as well.

[Svarog]

On a positive side, everyone should read this book

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h453/slavennovisad/139518-L.jpg

by Ivo Andric

Noble prize awarded Serbian writter about medieval Bosnia, it shows life in there upon Turkish arrival.

[Hurrem sultana]

As I said, I feel trully sorry for the innocent victims. I don't deny there was criminals in Serbian forces, but claiming you guys were all innocent and your army was crimless is stupid.


you will never get it wont you? you still don't get your army committed genocide+ i guess its Turkish genes there,,,


the fact your president showed up in srebrenica memorial is a nice sign though

[TheBorrebyViking]

you will never get it wont you? you still don't get your army committed genocide+ i guess its Turkish genes there,,,


the fact your president showed up in srebrenica memorial is a nice sign though

The USSR killed much more and was much worse in it.

[Svarog]

you will never get it wont you? you still don't get your army committed genocide+ i guess its Turkish genes there,,,


the fact your president showed up in srebrenica memorial is a nice sign though

You muslim turkish bend over telling me about Turkish gene?

Priceless.

[Hurrem sultana]

You muslim turkish bend over telling me about Turkish gene?

Priceless.

the fact that we were muslims saved us from turkish genes if you did not know,they did not "take away" muslim brides,,only serbian:coffee:

[Svarog]

the fact that we were muslims saved us from turkish genes if you did not know,they did not "take away" muslim brides,,only serbian:coffee:

rofl.

[Hevneren]

War is terrible, and the ethnic war in the Balkans was no exception. In my opinion both sides did terrible things. The Norwegian impression about the war in the Balkans is generally that the Serbs were more wrong than the Bosnians, though, but I can't make a comment about the legitimacy of this impression.

In Norway, all of the Balkans is seen as a problematic area due to the conflict there.

[Hurrem sultana]

The Norwegian impression about the war in the Balkans is generally that the Serbs were more wrong than the Bosnians, though, but I can't make a comment about the legitimacy of this impression.

pretty much the rest of the world thinks so too

[The Ripper]

pretty much the rest of the world thinks so too

You're all a bunch of butchers and trying to claim "I raped and butchered yes, but not as much as that guy!" isn't convincing. :cool:

[Svarog]

You're all a bunch of butchers and trying to claim "I raped and butchered yes, but not as much as that guy!" isn't convincing. :cool:

No, Bosnians butcher, Serbs shoot, you got it all wrong.

Bosnians weren't less wrong, they were less strong, if they had enogh power over Serbian forces they'd behead everything they could put their hands on.

[Hurrem sultana]

No, Bosnians butcher, Serbs shoot, you got it all wrong.

Bosnians weren't less wrong, they were less strong, if they had enogh power over Serbian forces they'd behead everything they could put their hands on.

yeah yeah..poor serbs,the whole world against them :(

[Minesweeper]

the fact that we were muslims saved us from turkish genes if you did not know,they did not "take away" muslim brides,,only serbian:coffee:

Muslim Turks married Serbian christian women and avoided Bosnian muslem?:D

[Minesweeper]

yeah yeah..poor serbs,the whole world against them :(

Almost whole world, twice during nineties, and yet here we are.;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_NATO_bombing_campaign_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovi na

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

[TheBorrebyViking]

yeah yeah..poor serbs,the whole world against them :(

You guys were just as sick, if not worse.

[Hurrem sultana]

Muslim Turks married Serbian christian women and avoided Bosnian muslem?:D

not talking about marriage here:D

[Hurrem sultana]

Almost whole world, twice during nineties, and yet here we are.



doesn't it tell you something? when the world condemns you

[Loki]

Dude...your complete and utter LACK of maturity is showing. STOP reading into the things people say.

By the way, young man, and I can damn well call you that because I am MORE than old enough to be your mother.....I have a fucking newsflash for you:

A nice lady like Bosnian is certainly not going to subscribe to the extremist form of Islam people like YOU mistake ALL Muslims for following.

Again, I judge a person as an individual first and foremost.

Can you kindly understand and STFU about it already.

^^ This ...

[Minesweeper]

not talking about marriage here:D

And what are we talking about?

[Minesweeper]

doesn't it tell you something? when the world condemns you

It tells me, we were stone in the boot of NATO(read new world order) that killed thousands of your brothers in faith with similar reasons they used to justify their air raids in 1995. and 1999.

And most of the casualties - collateral damage!:mad:

Supporting them tells lot more about you...

[TheBorrebyViking]

^^ This ...

I don't like anyone who supports paedophilia, and at its core, Islam does.

[Bakura]

Most citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina in the least don't love and don't feel BiH as their country if even hate. In fact, only Muslims feel BiH as their country and nobody except them. I live in Bosnia more precisely in Republica Srpska, but when someone asks me where are I'm from, I always say from Serbia.

[Hurrem sultana]

Most citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina in the least don't love and don't feel BiH as their country if even hate. In fact, only Muslims feel BiH as their country and nobody except them. I live in Bosnia more precisely in Republica Srpska, but when someone asks me where are I'm from, I always say from Serbia.

croats and bosniaks love BIH,serbs from RS hate Bosnia but Bosnia doesnt love them either:D

[Bakura]

croats and bosniaks love BIH,serbs from RS hate Bosnia but Bosnia doesnt love them either:D

Croats loves BiH :confused: You should go to Neum and say that you are Bosniak and then you will see what true love means. ;) I think that Croats hates BiH five times more than Serbs do it. I was in western Herzegovina there are Croatian majority and no single BiH flag there, but in Republica Srpska you can see BiH flag beside every Serbian.

[Hurrem sultana]

Croats loves BiH :confused: You should go to Neum and say that you are Bosniak and then you will see what true love means. ;) I think that Croats hates BiH five times more than Serbs do it. I was in western Herzegovina there are Croatian majority and no single BiH flag there, but in Republica Srpska you can see BiH flag beside every Serbian.



true about herzegovina croats,but bosnia croats(central bosnia) are very different...they love bosnia and croatia

bosnian franjevci(Franciscans) are known for their patriotism towards Bosnia

[Drawing-slim]

Bosnia its ok, the rest of the balkans are ok.
Its safe to say that serbia is the mother of all troubles in the balkans. they have ruin all the balkan image for the next 300 hundred years. Serbian propoganda and psychopath idealogy is the cancer and the very black hole of the balkan region.
Serbs themseves dont even know how brainwashed they are, and how much they have ruin things for themselves and taking us all down with them.

Of course i got nothing against serbian people in general, and neither do i have anything against greek people.
But, both these goverments have tried and have domintated the balkans for a long time now, and always with the most twisted agendas towards their naighbors.
And look where we're today. The fucking jokes of europe.

History has shown us one thing, serbia has no buisness to ever rule anyone, ever again.
They have failed miserably! because in order to rule other people and succeed, you have to make people like you also, and serbia has won only hate, but never hearts and minds.

[Flintlocke]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/92/Western_Balkans_1942.2008.svg

I support this map, give Bosnia back to Croatia. And Dalmatia to Italy! :cool:

[Bakura]

true about herzegovina croats,but bosnia croats(central bosnia) are very different...they love bosnia and croatia

bosnian franjevci(Franciscans) are known for their patriotism towards Bosnia

One Croatian tribe, it's means nothing. Most of Croats are rather marry Serb than Muslim, cross is cross.

[Hurrem sultana]

One Croatian tribe, it's means nothing. Most of Croats are rather marry Serb than Muslim, cross is cross.

i don't care about Herzegovina Croats,not even Croatians like them

[Duke]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/92/Western_Balkans_1942.2008.svg

I support this map, give Bosnia back to Croatia. And Dalmatia to Italy! :cool:

That was occupied by Italians, and BiH, western part or Turkish Croatia, and southern, hercegovina by Turks.

But hey at least we got some back, as for BiH, we dont wont it, nor we wont to have bunch of Muslims and Serbs in our country.
As for Croat part of BiH, it will soon be autonomous
It is what it is.



i don't care about Herzegovina Croats,not even Croatians like them

Thats pure BS, you dont know anything about Croats, we hate Hercegovians same as any other Croats from different region.
Its a healthy hate, it comes natural to us, because we are natural haters, grrrrrrraaahhhhh :D

[Hurrem sultana]

Thats pure BS, you dont know anything about Croats, we hate Hercegovians same as any other Croats from different region.


my best friend is from dubrovnik,she hates "hercegovce" :D

[Duke]

my best friend is from dubrovnik,she hates "hercegovce" :D

I hate them too, because they cant stay out of politics.
I also hate purgers, because they think they are center of the world, i hate Istrians because they are too whiny, etc...

[Minesweeper]

Upgrade your software,out of date.

Feed your goats, you might get lucky today.;)

[poiuytrewq0987]

Bosnia shouldn't be disestablished to serve neighbors' nationalist interests. Bosnian Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks need to live together in peace and that means the disestablishment of RS to full unify the country.

What I would do if I had the power:

- Disestablish Republika Srpska
- Pass anti-discrimination laws to protect all ethnic groups from discrimination with heavy fines if found guilty
- Rename BiH to Bosnian Federation (like Russia but smaller)
- reinvigorate local economy so people will be content with things than go to war over tiny pieces of land
- Bratstvo i edinstvo ;)

Respect the Bosniaks, what they choose to be, than hate them for it. They are European and they have a right to live their life the way they want it. Language or genetic similarity is irrelevant. They are their own people and have been since the Slavic migrations to the Balkans.

[Minesweeper]

^If you ever need a honest and loyal, lifetimefriend, you'll have to get a dog.

Fixed!

I could actually agree on this one.:coffee:

[The Journeyman]

pretty much the rest of the world thinks so too

To be blunt, the faction that wins a civil war usually has to be the most dominating and violent (take Gen. Sherman, for example), especially in a region like Yugoslavia. The Serbs learned this during previous wars, like during WW2, when the Ustasha (along with Bosnian Muslim collaborators and Albanian quislings in Kosovo) annihilated hundreds of thousands of Serbian civilians in the most disgusting ways.

Drawing-live on another thread mentioned Serbs cutting fetuses out of pregnant women etc. Total fabrication. That is in fact a true story that General Mladic told about a massacre commited by the Ustasha near his village: “In the village nearest to my birthplace they killed 42 Serbs. They cut an unborn baby from the belly of a pregnant woman and skewered it on a knife. … They killed everyone except an old man and a two-month-old girl, but they cut off the little girl’s hand,” he recalled."

He also mentions: “The Islamic world does not have the atomic bomb, but it has the demographic bomb,” he said. “The whole of Europe will be swamped by Albanians and Muslims.”

As for Bosnia or Bosnians, I have no idea. I've never met any and never been. Would like to visit one day though.

[Duke]

Bosnia shouldn't be disestablished to serve neighbors' nationalist interests. Bosnian Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks need to live together in peace and that means the disestablishment of RS to full unify the country.

What I would do if I had the power:

- Disestablish Republika Srpska
- Pass anti-discrimination laws to protect all ethnic groups from discrimination with heavy fines if found guilty
- Rename BiH to Bosnian Federation (like Russia but smaller)
- reinvigorate local economy so people will be content with things than go to war over tiny pieces of land
- Bratstvo i edinstvo ;)

Respect the Bosniaks, what they choose to be, than hate them for it. They are European and they have a right to live their life the way they want it. Language or genetic similarity is irrelevant. They are their own people and have been since the Slavic migrations to the Balkans.

I dont hate Bosniaks, but what they are trying to do is like mini Yugoslavia, and are pretty heavy handed.
Federation it must be, but every nation inside must have their own autonomy, and sense that they are equal members of Federation.

The way BiH is today is a road that leads to ruin.

[TheBorrebyViking]

Bosnia shouldn't be disestablished to serve neighbors' nationalist interests. Bosnian Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks need to live together in peace and that means the disestablishment of RS to full unify the country.

What I would do if I had the power:

- Disestablish Republika Srpska
- Pass anti-discrimination laws to protect all ethnic groups from discrimination with heavy fines if found guilty
- Rename BiH to Bosnian Federation (like Russia but smaller)
- reinvigorate local economy so people will be content with things than go to war over tiny pieces of land
- Bratstvo i edinstvo ;)

Respect the Bosniaks, what they choose to be, than hate them for it. They are European and they have a right to live their life the way they want it. Language or genetic similarity is irrelevant. They are their own people and have been since the Slavic migrations to the Balkans.
Sounds like what Arabs, Niggers, Beaners, and Kikes want. As for that second bold statement, no it's not.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I dont hate Bosniaks, but what they are trying to do is like mini Yugoslavia, and are pretty heavy handed.
Federation it must be, but every nation inside must have their own autonomy, and sense that they are equal members of Federation.

The way BiH is today is a road that leads to ruin.

It's only natural for them to feel threatened since Serbs have a country of their own, Croats too. Bosniaks have half a country with the whole RS and Herzegovina Croats debacle.

[Minesweeper]

Bosnia shouldn't be disestablished to serve neighbors' nationalist interests. Bosnian Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks need to live together in peace and that means the disestablishment of RS to full unify the country.



We all need to die one day and nothing more.

America won't be here forever, they must leave one day. When they do we'll break from this freak state and you'll have nothing to do about that. Crying won't help you then.

You and Croats do whatever you want, I don't care. But I will support Croats if some kind of shit happens:coffee:

[Duke]

It's only natural for them to feel threatened since Serbs have a country of their own, Croats too. Bosniaks have half a country with the whole RS and Herzegovina Croats debacle.

You are right its debacle, they made federation with Croats as you suggested, and they put their own men when its Croats turn.

Croats today probably hate Bosniaks more than they hate Serbs, because of this federation

http://abcportal.info/slike/2011/10/201120101-herceg-bosna.jpg

[poiuytrewq0987]

Sounds like what Arabs, Niggers, Beaners, and Kikes want. As for that second bold statement, no it's not.

You are sixteen, so I will excuse you for making that sort of post.


We all need to die one day and nothing more.

America won't be here forever, they must leave one day. When they do we'll break from this freak state and you'll have nothing to do about that. Crying won't help you then.

You and Croats do whatever you want, I don't care. But I will support Croats if some kind of shit happens:coffee:

I'm not quite sure how wanting a Greater Serbia is conductive to regional peace. The 90s are over. Bosniaks are three million strong and they need to have a country of their own. Also, I'm not Bosniak if you were wondering so I'm not at all biased in their favor.

[poiuytrewq0987]

You are right its debacle, they made federation with Croats as you suggested, and they put their own men when its Croats turn.

Croats today probably hate Bosniaks more than they hate Serbs, because of this federation

http://abcportal.info/slike/2011/10/201120101-herceg-bosna.jpg

That's why Bosnia cannot be a Bosnian-Croat federation or Bosnian-Croat-Serbian federation. It has to be a Bosniak federation that respects its ethnic minorities. The closer Bosnia is to being a full realized country, the sooner regional peace and friendship will reign.

[TheBorrebyViking]

You are sixteen, so I will excuse you for making that sort of post.



I'm not quite sure how wanting a Greater Serbia is conductive to regional peace. The 90s are over. Bosniaks are three million strong and they need to have a country of their own. Also, I'm not Bosniak if you were wondering so I'm not at all biased in their favor.

Pointing out the truth hurts? It's the same laws the Niggers, Beaners, Kikes, and Arabs want. Genetics and culture also play a large role.

[Bakura]

Bosnia shouldn't be disestablished to serve neighbors' nationalist interests. Bosnian Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks need to live together in peace and that means the disestablishment of RS to full unify the country.

What I would do if I had the power:

- Disestablish Republika Srpska
- Pass anti-discrimination laws to protect all ethnic groups from discrimination with heavy fines if found guilty
- Rename BiH to Bosnian Federation (like Russia but smaller)
- reinvigorate local economy so people will be content with things than go to war over tiny pieces of land
- Bratstvo i edinstvo ;)

Respect the Bosniaks, what they choose to be, than hate them for it. They are European and they have a right to live their life the way they want it. Language or genetic similarity is irrelevant. They are their own people and have been since the Slavic migrations to the Balkans.

Bosniaks exist since '92, in SFRJ they was called Muslims by nationality more precisely since Josip Broz Tito gave them nationality, but before that they were Muslim Serbs and Muslim Croats. As for Bosnia and Herzegovina, that frankenstein state soon shall not exist. There is no force that can compel the Serbs and Muslims to tolerate each other. Modern European system of values ​​is not applicable to us whose veins flows Slavic blood. Battles will be for all eternity!

[Hurrem sultana]

Bosniak Lover,where do you come from?

[Duke]

That's why Bosnia cannot be a Bosnian-Croat federation or Bosnian-Croat-Serbian federation. It has to be a Bosniak federation that respects its ethnic minorities. The closer Bosnia is to being a full realized country, the sooner regional peace and friendship will reign.


Well federation basically woks like that now, and it will fail, you will only manage to to that on Bosniak land

[Duke]

Bosniaks exist since '92, in SFRJ they was called Muslims by nationality more precisely since Josip Broz Tito gave them nationality, but before that they were Muslim Serbs and Muslim Croats. As for Bosnia and Herzegovina, that frankenstein state soon shall not exist. There is no force that can compel the Serbs and Muslims to tolerate each other. Modern European system of values ​​is not applicable to us whose veins flows Slavic blood. Battles will be for all eternity!

Correction, its 1994

[Saruman]

I love the land itself as I'm probably more "Bosnian" than any member around here, because from an area which was the core of medieval Bosnian state hail 60% of my ancestors.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Bosnia_around_1412.png

That was area controlled by Kings directly even as the state expanded.

Bosniak (especially serious) practice of Islam and their belonging to wider Islamic civilization is something I don't and will never agree on as it is simply not in European spirit.

Today it is a state that exist upon certain agreements and circumstances.

As direct cultural and ethnic heirs of old Bosnian kingdom I respect central Bosnian Croats, and surely I do not approve of their reduction in influence that has been going on since Dayton.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Pointing out the truth hurts? It's the same laws the Niggers, Beaners, Kikes, and Arabs want. Genetics and culture also play a large role.

It didn't sting one bit. You are still young and have plenty of energy to use racial epithets. I don't.


Bosniaks exist since '92, in SFRJ they was called Muslims by nationality more precisely since Josip Broz Tito gave them nationality, but before that they were Muslim Serbs and Muslim Croats. As for Bosnia and Herzegovina, that frankenstein state soon shall not exist. There is no force that can compel the Serbs and Muslims to tolerate each other. Modern European system of values ​​is not applicable to us whose veins flows Slavic blood. Battles will be for all eternity!

Yes, the Bosniaks previously only identified as Muslim back then -- until Tito realized their ethnic identity. It's no different with Bosnian Serbs and Croats who identified as only Orthodox or Catholic... until the age of nationalism (19th century) when they began to identify as Serbian or Croatian based on the medieval kingdoms who aligned with Catholicism, and one other, Orthodoxy.

BUT...

Bosniaks exist, they are three million strong, and they have half a country that needs to be fully theirs. To deny them of this, you will have to pull a Darfur on them. Are you prepared for that?

[Minesweeper]

I'm not quite sure how wanting a Greater Serbia is conductive to regional peace. The 90s are over. Bosniaks are three million strong and they need to have a country of their own.

Keeping Croats and Serbs in same country won't help them there. As long as we are here they can only dream about their small Jamahiriya.:coffee:




Also, I'm not Bosniak if you were wondering so I'm not at all biased in their favor.

Your nick and avatar are giving different impression.:D

[poiuytrewq0987]

Bosniak Lover,where do you come from?

One of the former republics of Yugoslavia. :p


Keeping Croats and Serbs in same country won't help them there. As long as we are here they can only dream about their small Jamahiriya.:coffee:

Well, Serbs and Croats in Bosnia need to accept reality. That reality, is the reality of Bosnia and Bosniaks. They're here to stay. They have a culture, an identity, a country and you cannot simply deny their existence. To pursue a radical nationalist agenda, will only push them to extremism -- and that's them embracing extreme Islam -- which is what I don't want to see happen.



Your nick and avatar are giving different impression.:D

I find them fascinating. :)

[Minesweeper]

Pointing out the truth hurts? It's the same laws the Niggers, Beaners, Kikes, and Arabs want. Genetics and culture also play a large role.

Crucial role, in my opinion. Everybody can learn a language.

[Hurrem sultana]

Bosniak (especially serious) practice of Islam and their belonging to wider Islamic civilization is something I don't and will never agree on as it is simply not in European spirit.


too bad they don't ask you what you accept or don't

[Minesweeper]

One of the former republics of Yugoslavia. :p



Well, Serbs and Croats in Bosnia need to accept reality. That reality, is the reality of Bosnia and Bosniaks. They're here to stay. They have a culture, an identity, a country and you cannot simply deny their existence. To pursue a radical nationalist agenda, will only push them to extremism -- and that's them embracing extreme Islam -- which is what I don't want to see happen.

Why don't Bosniaks accept reality that Republika Srpska exists and needs to have all the rights guarantied by Dayton agreement. Looks like we have some double standards here.:rolleyes:



I find them fascinating. :)

If you say so...:D

[Hurrem sultana]

Why don't Bosniaks accept reality that Republika Srpska exists and needs to have all the rights guarantied by Dayton agreement. Looks like we have some double standards here.


i come from "RS" as long as it is inside Bosnian border i don't care,if they try something more they will end up loosing it all.Learn from the past

[poiuytrewq0987]

Why don't Bosniaks accept reality that Republika Srpska exists and needs to have all the rights guarantied by Dayton agreement. Looks like we have some double standards here.:rolleyes:

It's not double standards. Bosniaks don't want to treat Serbs fairly until the Serbs in Bosnia agree to disestablish RS and live in a Bosniak federation. If my country was in the same situation as Bosniaks', I would be probably as defensive as them.

[Hess]

too bad they don't ask you what you accept or don't

it's not just him. The fact of the matter is that many Europeans (and most European nationalists) have a number of reservations about accepting a religion so opposed to the European spirit and ethos.

whether those reservations are justified or not is a whole different matter entirely, but no one can deny that there are many unanswered questions about the European status of Muslims in Europe.

[Duke]

i come from "RS" as long as it is inside Bosnian border i don't care,if they try something more they will end up loosing it all.Learn from the past

You are trying to form a mini Yugoslavia, and if push comes to show, and you attack you will be same as Serbs.

Learn from the past, and remember we Croats are haters :D, ask your friend

[TheBorrebyViking]

It didn't sting one bit. You are still young and have plenty of energy to use racial epithets. I don't.



Yes, the Bosniaks previously only identified as Muslim back then -- until Tito realized their ethnic identity. It's no different with Bosnian Serbs and Croats who identified as only Orthodox or Catholic... until the age of nationalism (19th century) when they began to identify as Serbian or Croatian based on the medieval kingdoms who aligned with Catholicism, and one other, Orthodoxy.

BUT...

Bosniaks exist, they are three million strong, and they have half a country that needs to be fully theirs. To deny them of this, you will have to pull a Darfur on them. Are you prepared for that?
That stops it from being true?

[poiuytrewq0987]

That stops it from being true?

Yes. I don't like the idea of Europeans discriminating each others.

[Saruman]

too bad they don't ask you what you accept or don't

I have lot of sympathies for medieval Bosnian state and it's culture, but Bosniaks today have been bragging about it but in practice it is often used as an excuse to lay claim to the whole land of Bosnia. Even if you find among Bosniaks from Bosnia such people, muslims from Serbia, that is so called "Sandzak", I say so called because although I'm from Bosnia by large, I'm by grandfather and paternal line from old Serbia that is Rascia, and my ancestors were called by Turks Serbs, while some were called Vlachs! So it is the land of the first Serbian state and to call it by Turkish designation of a province it utterly repugnant.
So those muslims from Serbia have nothing to do with Bosnia and they care little for it's culture, in fact they are more religious and more akin in behavior to Albanians.

Of course they don't ask me, but as someone sympathetic to the old Bosnian kingdom I wouldn't obviously suggest anything "un-Bosnian".

Although had Austrians stayed they would have been asked, and really they quite transformed Bosnia in their 40 year rule from a backward province.
So once again it shows how work oriented Germanics are, they weren't too concerned with local tribe issues, they think on a global scale.

And also had 3rd Reich remained they would have been asked as well. Himmler was in favor of outreach..

So surely had Germans stayed things would have been very different right now, land would have been Europeanised.

[TheBorrebyViking]

Yes. I don't like the idea of Europeans discriminating each others.

You follow a hostile religion, not very "European". Niggers want the same laws, along with the rest. There is a reason that the Northern countries are doing great, and yours aren't.

[The Ripper]

I can understand the Bosniaks want a state of their own, but why insist on Serbs and Croats being part of that state as well?

[poiuytrewq0987]

I can understand the Bosniaks want a state of their own, but why insist on Serbs and Croats being part of that state as well?

Maybe because it's not an option to break up Bosnia to serve nationalist interests of Croatia and Serbia? That will never swing with the 2 million Bosniaks who live in the country nor the international community who wants the Balkans to stay the way it is right now. The only other option is make Bosnia a closer state by disestablishing the Serbian entity. That would force Serbs accept reality and help build a better Bosnia than trying to merge parts of it with Serbia.

[The Ripper]

Maybe because it's not an option to break up Bosnia to serve nationalist interests of Croatia and Serbia? That will never swing with the 2 million Bosniaks who live in the country

The question was, why? Why is it wrong for Serbs to merge with Serbia, Croats with Croatia? Why do Bosniaks oppose it? Why is it more important Bosniaks get their way in this, rather than the separatist Serbs?

[poiuytrewq0987]

The question was, why? Why is it wrong for Serbs to merge with Serbia, Croats with Croatia? Why do Bosniaks oppose it? Why is it more important Bosniaks get their will in this, rather than the separatist Serbs?

It's because Bosniaks consider themselves descendants of the medieval Bosnian state. If Serbs and Croats can claim lineage to their medieval state... then why can't Bosniaks too?

[Loddfafner]

Perhaps Brussels, Washington, Zagreb, and Belgrade all would like to minimize the influence of Herzgovinian Croat and Bosnian Serb electorates?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Perhaps Brussels, Washington, Zagreb, and Belgrade all would like to minimize the influence of Herzgovinian Croat and Bosnian Serb electorates?

There is interest in keeping Western Balkans weak. But it's not the Bosnians' fault. Other constituent peoples wanted to break away from Yugoslavia. If they are allowed to break away from Yugoslavia and keep their territories then Bosnians should be also allowed to as well.

[hajduk]

Fuck Thank you GOD THE LEGEND IS BACK !!!!!

[Lena]

I dont hate Bosniaks, but what they are trying to do is like mini Yugoslavia, and are pretty heavy handed.
Federation it must be, but every nation inside must have their own autonomy, and sense that they are equal members of Federation.

The way BiH is today is a road that leads to ruin.


It's not that I personally support BiH, far from it, but I'll try to be reasonable and say that I agree with what you typed down. As it happens often, what two of us believe in and see as the only possible solution-won't happen and BiH is set to fail.

[Lena]

I live in Bosnia more precisely in Republica Srpska, but when someone asks me where are I'm from, I always say from Serbia.

:love0033:
NgJx2gX0_fQ

[Saruman]

Perhaps Brussels, Washington, Zagreb, and Belgrade all would like to minimize the influence of Herzgovinian Croat and Bosnian Serb electorates?

More like liberal/left wing segments of Zagreb/Belgrade political scene as those electorates are more conservative.
As for Brussels, Washington they do for those and other reasons.

[Saruman]

One of the main topics of discussion on ex-Yugoslav forums is demography, and in center of it is precisely Bosnia. Some Bosnian muslims make claims and hope to achieve "demographic contest", but their own birthrates aren't that impressive though better than Bosnian Serbs and Croats.

Developments in the region are not only dependent of local groups but far more on outside powers, the US, Europe, Russia, and it would appear in the future Turkey. Some Bosniaks see their interests in US, others in Turkey, Croats have allies in some parts of EU especially Berlin, and as a member state obviously their influence will increase, Serbs obviously count on Russia predominately, with left wing leaning towards US/EU.

Atm. there is some sort of status quo and until heavier involvement of foreign powers it will probably stay on that.

[Bakura]

It didn't sting one bit. You are still young and have plenty of energy to use racial epithets. I don't.



Yes, the Bosniaks previously only identified as Muslim back then -- until Tito realized their ethnic identity. It's no different with Bosnian Serbs and Croats who identified as only Orthodox or Catholic... until the age of nationalism (19th century) when they began to identify as Serbian or Croatian based on the medieval kingdoms who aligned with Catholicism, and one other, Orthodoxy.

BUT...

Bosniaks exist, they are three million strong, and they have half a country that needs to be fully theirs. To deny them of this, you will have to pull a Darfur on them. Are you prepared for that?
You said that would like to have children with someone of another race, so I don't know what you looking for on European preservation forum:confused: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=490954&postcount=19

[jerney]

I don't really like Muslims, but I don't have anything against Bosnians on an individual basis..

[Radojica]

I have never been to Bosnia so I have neither positive nor negative remarks.

I must say I am intrigued by the combination of cultural influences, I would definitely like to visit one day and see for myself. *must* see the bridge of Mostar ;)

This bridge :coffee:?

rfWyKJY1wc8

I think you are some 19 years late for that :)

Bosnia is Balkans pearl, with all it's beautiful nature and diverse wildlife, old traditional and at the same time very unique cultural heritage, it's rich, but very often sad and painful history.

I would like to propose a book of Ivo Andric "The bridge on the river Drina" where the mentality and way of life, between Ottomans occupation and Islam to World war I, is described to perfection and which is continuing to these days.

[Minesweeper]

i come from "RS" as long as it is inside Bosnian border i don't care,if they try something more they will end up loosing it all.Learn from the past

We were never asking for something more, only for what belongs us by Dayton agreement which is constantly violated by Bosnians.:rolleyes:

Even today, government of Republika Srpska has less jurisdiction in her hands than those guaranteed by D. agreement. Why?

[Peyrol]

What bosnian serbs think about this man?

e6bMpE7kqNU

[Saruman]

We were never asking for something more, only for what belongs us by Dayton agreement which is constantly violated by Bosnians.:rolleyes:

Even today, government of Republika Srpska has less jurisdiction in her hands than those guaranteed by D. agreement. Why?

It's very simple, they want more territory under their control (less unreasonable ones), or they want it all (very unreasonable ones), plus those who have some unrealistic fancy "pan-Bosnian" ideas.

Plus West (especially US) was crucial in taking away some of those powers. Without them it was simply impossible.

[Rron]

Positively


In 1991, Croatian president Franjo Tuđman and Serbian president Slobodan Milošević had a series of discussions which became known as the Karađorđevo agreement or, less commonly, the Karađorđevo meeting. These discussions commenced as early as March, 1991. They involved the redistribution of territories in the ex-Yugoslav republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina[note 1] between Croatia and Serbiain the way that territories with either Croatian or Serbian majority (or plurality) would be annexed. This meeting did not include the third and the largest ethnic group in Bosnia and Herzegovina, the Bosniaks.[note 2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara%C4%91or%C4%91evo_agreement

[Queen B]

Neutral.

I am not following any religion, since I find faults in every of them. Hardcore religious people are bad, no matter if they are Muslim,Christian or whatever...

Anyway, I am neutral towards Bosnians, and most of x-Yugoslavs, except Croatians (positive)

[Minesweeper]

It's very simple, they want more territory under their control (less unreasonable ones), or they want it all (very unreasonable ones), plus those who have some unrealistic fancy "pan-Bosnian" ideas.

Plus West (especially US) was crucial in taking away some of those powers. Without them it was simply impossible.

Assuring territory for future Jamahiriya, that is it. They are probably expecting Turkish return to Rumelia and those expectations are (it's hard to say) realistic.
We know what Turkish prime minister said in Sarajevo and the message is loud and clear - new Ottoman empire.
Preservation of Ataturk's legacy in Turkey is nothing more than a mask for NATO and Europe, Turkish politicians are Islamist and anti-republicans.

[Leliana]

The forerunners of Europe, that are England, Germany, France, Italy, Spain and the Netherlands. Then comes the midfield which is broad and complex. And then there's the end of the table. Albania, Bosnia, Montenegro and one or two more.

That sums up my view of Bosnia Herzegoallahakbar. :)

[Rron]

The forerunners of Europe, that are England, Germany, France, Italy, Spain and the Netherlands. Then comes the midfield which is broad and complex. And then there's the end of the table. Albania, Bosnia, Montenegro and one or two more.

That sums up my view of Bosnia Herzegoallahakbar. :)

Angry troll

[Hess]

The forerunners of Europe, that are England, Germany, France, Italy, Spain and the Netherlands. Then comes the midfield which is broad and complex. And then there's the end of the table. Albania, Bosnia, Montenegro and one or two more.

That sums up my view of Bosnia Herzegoallahakbar. :)

well, I can see where you're coming from but I wouldn't be quite as extreme. Let's not forget that Bosnia is at least 45% Christian.

[Leliana]

well, I can see where you're coming from but I wouldn't be quite as extreme. Let's not forget that Bosnia is at least 45% Christian.
The rest of 55% is loud and irritating for 100%. ;)

[hajduk]

The rest of 55% is loud and irritating for 100%. ;)

Why did you put Montengro in that list?

[Hurrem sultana]

Why did you put Montengro in that list?

montenegro is 20% muslim

[hajduk]

Well Bulgaria is 20% muslim but that doesnt make us culturaly linked to muslims

[Rron]

Well Bulgaria is 20% muslim but that doesnt make us culturaly linked to muslims
Albania is not culturaly linked to muslims too.

[Hurrem sultana]

Well Bulgaria is 20% muslim but that doesnt make us culturaly linked to muslims

those are mainly turks,but monetengrin muslims are mainly montenegrin/slavic

and if the number is that high,well then certainly islam is not as strange

[Saruman]

Assuring territory for future Jamahiriya, that is it. They are probably expecting Turkish return to Rumelia and those expectations are (it's hard to say) realistic.
We know what Turkish prime minister said in Sarajevo and the message is loud and clear - new Ottoman empire.
Preservation of Ataturk's legacy in Turkey is nothing more than a mask for NATO and Europe, Turkish politicians are Islamist and anti-republicans.

I've been warning of that for some time, in Turkey Islamists have taken over, recently they even arrested fmr. Chieff of Staff Ilker Basbug (2008-2010). Also Serbian prof. Darko Tanaskovic has been speaking about Turkish Neo-Ottomanism. Although actually in Turkey Kemalists had strong ties with West and Israel, for their interests, and of what are these Turkish officers being accused of now is not so dissimilar to what many people believe exists in the west and hampers the Europeans!
Although Turkish islamists are pragmatic people, they have already started getting involved in "sandzak" by trying to broker a deal between different branches of muslims there, they are getting involved with certain other economic projects, no doubt preparing the ground for what they want to be a future greater role. With regard to West, West doesn't want to let Turkey go away and they have been trying to appease them and offer them something in return for still keeping decent amount of secularism, and actually both US and EU is offering them greater role in the balkans, opening them doors so to speak as an compensation for not entering the EU. Because it is not in US interest to have some Islamist Turkey on the role as it could destabilize the whole region not only balkans but wider.. So the West is trying to keep Turkey as their "trusted agents" in this area and Turks are playing their game atm, maybe sometimes they break off... Meanwhile US/West will try to weaken Islamists from within, many prominent Turks attend Bilderberg conferences and they are always from Kemalist circles, except the current deputy PM, former Foreign Minister and maybe future candidate for PM Ali Babacan from AK Party who attended it from 2007-2010. So he might be Western "agent" or voice among Turkish AKP Islamists.

Signs of some mistrust are seen also by the fact that Turks have recently ordered only 2 F-35 planes, though initially they wanted 100-120, the reason they now sliced the order is they want codes for those planes which US refused to give them, without codes US might disable them, and why would they disable them, only if Turks were using them against their interests, such as against Israel. No US allies want those codes, because it is certain they're on their side..

So as you see this issue if far more complex..

But it is certain Turkey will increase it's role, they've already "bombed" us with their soap-operas.. :D
Surely they see their interests in muslim areas, Kosovo, Bosnia, Albania...
How it plays out remains to be seen, it remains to be seen whether Islamists stay in power but they might as Erdogan is supposed to run for president in 2014 for 2 terms until 2024.

Of Bosniaks part of them like "nationalist-muslim" SDA (right wing especially), and ofc "sandzak" muslims want close ties with Turkey, more nationalist and secular forces like Socialists of Lagumdzija (now in strongest position) and Silajdzic are more in favor of close ties with the US, should the US-Turkish relationship brake at some point, it is uncertain which path Bosnian muslims will follow...

[Minesweeper]

those are mainly turks,but monetengrin muslims are mainly montenegrin/slavic

Yeah, they are not Turks, they are turkophile neo-Ottomans. Big difference.:rolleyes:

[Leliana]

Why did you put Montengro in that list?
Why are roses red, why is the moon globular and why do I think how I think? You need to accept my views as I have to accept yours.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I've been warning of that for some time, in Turkey Islamists have taken over, recently they even arrested fmr. Chieff of Staff Ilker Basbug (2008-2010). Also Serbian prof. Darko Tanaskovic has been speaking about Turkish Neo-Ottomanism.

It's easy to be horrified at the idea of neo-Ottomanism as the word does sound very dirty. BUT... I don't believe this "neo-Ottomanism" is necessarily a bad thing. Why? Their investment liras are literally helping the impoverished Balkans get back on its feet. I don't see Germany or France doing the same thing. Recently, a Turkish company invested 200 million into a new airport in Skopje. I don't see Germany investing hundreds of millions to improve our transport systems. Whatever neo-Ottomanism is in Bosnia, it's good in Macedonia. :)

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j352/lslcrew4/VH_20110904_7132.jpg

http://www.turizamzavasinas.com/sr/images/2011/09/307883974e662a79e6948566363067_orig.jpg

[Rron]

.......
Interesting you compose words of some links to create your post but forgot to mention these facts from those links:

The size of Turkish investments in the Serbian market is expected to increase noticeably following the elimination of visa procedures with this country, Turkey’s ambassador to Belgrade, Süha Umar, told the Anatolia news agency on Monday.
Turkey and Serbia last week agreed to remove visa requirements during Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s visit to this country. “Turkish businessmen used to encounter serious problems when entering Serbia as a result of complicated visa procedures. Two years ago, we accelerated efforts to ease visa procedures and today the two countries are lifting visa procedures completely. I believe Turkish businessmen who are keen on investing in Serbia will benefit much from this development,” he said. Underlining that Turkey still lags behind many countries as regards investments in the Balkans, the ambassador said Serbia offers relatively more lucrative opportunities for foreign investors in the region and that such a potential should be capitalized upon. “A large portion of industrial investment during the Yugoslav period was made in Serbia. … Some of the facilities built during that time were privatized while others remain unused. Turkish companies could modernize these facilities and start production here,” he explained.

http://www.todayszaman.com/newsDetail_getNewsById.action;jsessionid=33CF8C3F6 49680644D980B240A0283D5?newsId=216555
or this one......

The western Balkans matter little economically. High-profile road and airport projects give a false impression of huge Turkish investment. . Alida Vracic, an analyst in Sarajevo, says that when Bosniaks go to Istanbul there is a lot of “kiss, kiss” for Balkan cousins, but the money goes to Serbia.
http://www.economist.com/node/21536647

[Saruman]

It's easy to be horrified at the idea of neo-Ottomanism as the word does sound very dirty. BUT... I don't believe this "neo-Ottomanism" is necessarily a bad thing. Why? Their investment liras are literally helping the impoverished Balkans get back on its feet. I don't see Germany or France doing the same thing. Recently, a Turkish company invested 200 million into a new airport in Skopje. I don't see Germany investing hundreds of millions to improve our transport systems. Whatever neo-Ottomanism is in Bosnia, it's good in Macedonia. :)


Turks have established relationship with Macedonia, in big part because Macedonia is surrounded by foes (Albanians, Greeks especially). So Macedonia needed to reach out for friends. But surely Turks look their interests as well, although investment isn't necessarily bad, those who invest have their influence rise. So Turkey might allow their maybe eventually "vassal" state of Macedonia to "prosper", but they'll keep an eye on muslim areas.
They also won't be touching the Montenegro for other reasons, Djukanovic played it smart and welcomed world billionaire elites (none other than Anglo-Jewish plutocratic aristocracy - Masters of the Western world) to make a new Monaco out of Montenegrin coast. So with friends who have friends that effectively oversee and influence appointment of US presidents and Western politicians you need not worry about "some Turkey".

As I've said it remains to be seen what comes out of Turkey, whether it goes more Islamist or "moderate secular-Islamist mix", in the latter case it's role will stay as primarily US agent, so there won't be any real "new Ottoman Empire".

On the other hand keep in mind that the main reason West wants to keep Turkey down is because their "Neo-Ottomanism", radicalization and "right-wingisation" would incite right wing in adjacent European states, and having right-wing Europe of nationalist states goes against globalisation plans! Also it would destabilize ME and endanger Israel.

[Rron]

Turkey Breathes New Life Into Serbia's Ottoman Relics (http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/turkey-breathes-new-life-into-serbia-s-ottoman-relics)

[Dilberth]

It's because Bosniaks consider themselves descendants of the medieval Bosnian state. If Serbs and Croats can claim lineage to their medieval state... then why can't Bosniaks too?

Central Bosnian Croats are only true descendants of Pre-Islamic medieval Bosnian state.Turks and Vlachs have no connection with it.

[Hurrem sultana]

Central Bosnian Croats are only true descendants of Pre-Islamic medieval Bosnian state.Turks and Vlachs have no connection with it.

where do you see turks?

[Saruman]

Turkey Breathes New Life Into Serbia's Ottoman Relics (http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/turkey-breathes-new-life-into-serbia-s-ottoman-relics)

And? Completely logical that Neo-Ottoman Turks would want to revive their relics from a "success story" - how FM Davutoglu calls Ottoman occupation of balkan. By posting this you are being Ottoman-nostalgic and indirectly agreeing with him.

[MandM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUuhSGnLvv8

srebrenica a town betrayed

English sub

[Aivap]

too many muslims, so negative!

[Dilberth]

where do you see turks?

http://www.sandzakinfo.net/images/stories/sport/kosarka/01/np-v1.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x105/newsbosnia/bosnia-celebrates-turkeys-win1.jpg
http://i21.tinypic.com/2mbajn

But I must be hallucinating...

[Hurrem sultana]

http://www.sandzakinfo.net/images/stories/sport/kosarka/01/np-v1.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x105/newsbosnia/bosnia-celebrates-turkeys-win1.jpg
http://i21.tinypic.com/2mbajn

But I must be hallucinating...



supporters of Turkish team,does it mean they are Turks,genetically?

[Saruman]

Central Bosnian Croats are only true descendants of Pre-Islamic medieval Bosnian state.Turks and Vlachs have no connection with it.

Not entirely, they are Catholics not Gnostics, that was the true curiosity of medieval Bosnia, more authentic Christianity (Gnosticism).:D I don't know Bosnian Church exact teachings but Gnosticism is surely more "Christian", it had originally no connection with Old testament whatsoever.

[Rron]

And? Completely logical that Neo-Ottoman Turks would want to revive their relics from a "success story" - how FM Davutoglu calls Ottoman occupation of balkan. By posting this you are being Ottoman-nostalgic and indirectly agreeing with him.
By posting this i am showing that their attitude is not only oriented on countries which you mentioned , but also your country.

[Saruman]

By posting this i am showing that their attitude is not only oriented on countries which you mentioned , but also your country.

Of course it is, that's (and along with other "interests" such as Bulgaria, maybe Armenia, maybe Israel etc.) why they are building 1000 new high quality tanks to replace the old US scrap metal (M48/M60) and have something formidable to strike with.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9909/2cmllzo.jpg

[Turkophagos]

I'm positive towards this:


http://espressostalinist.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/greaterserbia.jpg

[Saruman]

I'm positive towards this:


Slovenes and Serbs always got along. Even in '91, Milosevic just said "let them go".:D

[SaxonCeorl]

They'd be fine if they dropped the whole Islam thing.

[Rron]

I'm positive towards this:


http://espressostalinist.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/greaterserbia.jpg
Only in your dreams

[Turkophagos]

Only in your dreams

There's no Albania at all in my dreams.

[askra]

Bosnia Herzegovina is not a country that i know very much, so i haven't a bad or a good opinion.
thousands of soldiers from here left to Bosnia for Peace keeping activities in the previous years, so great part of my knowledge about Bosnia is based on sad facts regarding the war.

[Padre Organtino]

Respublika srbska is my most favourite part of the country;)

[Flintlocke]

Čujte srpski dobrovoljci bandu četnici
Stići će vas naša ruka i u Srbiji! ;)

http://www.balkanforum.info/members/diin4m0_z4gr3b-albums-srbija-kao-nokia-picture3482-srbija8xs.jpg

[Arrow Cross]

Definitely a nation of some truly brave people.

[Minesweeper]

Čujte srpski dobrovoljci bandu četnici
Stići će vas naša ruka i u Srbiji! ;)


Yesterday game.:lol00002:


cpBQ-jdXgQY

[Svarog]

You creeps manage to turn every thread into discussion about Serbs, just how much time average Albanian, Bosnian, Hungarian etc spend thinking about us? oO

[Flintlocke]

Everybody in the Balkans is pissed off with Serbia, other conflicts are really small and unimportant. Serbia has made a mess of things since 1912 and everybody hates them.

[Rron]

hehe what a failed try.Almost no minute.I don't give a damn about your existence.Your side is always provoking/obsessed, when the others reply back to your bullshit you whine like bitches and you say that the others are obsessed with you.Anyway just proceed.
Its their way of trying to divert attention from some certain topic, as you can see Saruman gladly mentioned turkish investments in Kosova, Albania and Bosnia, but when i presented links which speaks about turkish investments in serbia and their other activities in his country, he called me ottoman nostalgic.

[Svarog]

Sure lol.

[Heart of Oak]

As an ex serviceman who served with the U.N. in Bosnia I find it very hard to like the country or the people as they were not only rude and ungrateful they also tried to kill me a lot, this I find very unfriendly and have very unhappy memories of that time in my life.

I am sorry, but that's how I feel about Bosnia!!!

[Saruman]

Its their way of trying to divert attention from some certain topic, as you can see Saruman gladly mentioned turkish investments in Kosova, Albania and Bosnia, but when i presented links which speaks about turkish investments in serbia and their activities in his country, he called me ottoman nostalgic.

Twist-speak you displayed here is the way of cowards Rron and the way of some semitic groups.
This is the link you presented. And I called you Ottoman-nostalgic in response to your posting of this link. What has restoring Ottoman muslim inspired relics got to do with economic investment?
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/turkey-breathes-new-life-into-serbia-s-ottoman-relics

[Hurrem sultana]

As an ex serviceman who served with the U.N. in Bosnia I find it very hard to like the country or the people as they were not only rude and ungrateful they also tried to kill me a lot, this I find very unfriendly and have very unhappy memories of that time in my life.

I am sorry, but that's how I feel about Bosnia!!!

haha they tried to kill you? why? :D

[Heart of Oak]

Maybe you should look-up the history of your country 80s -90s lol

[Rron]

Maybe you should look-up the history of your country 80s -90s lol
Do you know ethnicity of those which attacked you ?

[Minesweeper]

Everybody in the Balkans is pissed off with Serbia, other conflicts are really small and unimportant. Serbia has made a mess of things since 1912 and everybody hates them.

Not everybody. We're OK with Greeks and Romanians, maybe even Bulgarians. The rest... honestly I don't give a f... about the rest. Unimportant American puppets! ;)

[Flintlocke]

Not everybody. We're OK with Greeks and Romanians, maybe even Bulgarians. The rest... honestly I don't give a f... about the rest. Unimportant American puppets! ;)

http://z0r.de/2704

[Svarog]

Not everybody. We're OK with Greeks and Romanians, maybe even Bulgarians. The rest... honestly I don't give a f... about the rest. Unimportant American puppets! ;)

You should go to France, French-Serbian friendship sounds like a phrase, but, I never felt that welcome by normal people even in another town in Serbia lol They are rather rude to tourists and then when I they ask where i am from they actually smile and give you free stuff which you can't refuse :D

[Heart of Oak]

Do you know ethnicity of those which attacked you ?

It is hard to check the ethnicity of a S.A.M. When your trying to not only treat onboard casualties as you hang-on as the pilot out-maneuvers the missile.

[Minesweeper]

You should go to France, French-Serbian friendship sounds like a phrase, but, I never felt that welcome by normal people even in another town in Serbia lol They are rather rude to tourists and then when I they ask where i am from they actually smile and give you free stuff which you can't refuse :D

French are all right, their politicians are not, not only for the Serbs but for French people also.

Btw, I'm visiting France in June.:thumbs up

[Heart of Oak]

Do you know ethnicity of those which attacked you ?

Proberly in all proberbilaty they were Bosnian/Serbs although it is very hard to say for sure,all I can say for sure is it was rough on all concerned and was far more surreal than A walk in the preverbial park.

[Ushtari]

Proberly in all proberbilaty they were Bosnian/Serbs although it is very hard to say for sure,all I can say for sure is it was rough on all concerned and was far more surreal than A walk in the preverbial park.
yup only a serb would get teh idea to shot at peace keepers

[Minesweeper]

yup only a serb would get teh idea to shot at peace keepers

Serbs shot down more American(and NATO) planes than all world put together since Vietnam war! You should respect our greatness you unimportant Albo.;)

[Minesweeper]

Proberly in all proberbilaty they were Bosnian/Serbs although it is very hard to say for sure,all I can say for sure is it was rough on all concerned and was far more surreal than A walk in the preverbial park.

Where did it happened?

Our AA defense shot down a British Harrier near Gorazde in 1994. Pilots name was Nick Richardson. He even wrote a book about it - No Escape Zone.

[Hurrem sultana]

yup only a serb would get teh idea to shot at peace keepers

:D

[Svarog]

Proberly in all proberbilaty they were Bosnian/Serbs although it is very hard to say for sure,all I can say for sure is it was rough on all concerned and was far more surreal than A walk in the preverbial park.

You should have been in England and mind your own business in the first place.

[billErobreren]

pretty positive actually:ohwell:. they're my 4th favorite Slavs.

[Hurrem sultana]

You should have been in England and mind your own business in the first place.

he did not know some people behave like they just got out of jungle

[Svarog]

Blah Blah Blah

He had no business here and he knows it.

And beside, he does not even know who shot at him so stfu.

[Saruman]

...

Last picture beheadings were the work of Arab mujahedeen in Bosnia. Such practices are usually reserved for muslims as seen more recently in Iraq, Afghanistan..


Muslim mujahedeen soldier in Bosnian Muslim army stands on the decapitated heads of Bosnian Serb soldeirs Blagoje Blagojevic, Brana Duric, and Nenad Petkovic in Crni Vrh near Teslic.

[Hurrem sultana]

only arab barbarians and serbs can do such a thing

[Svarog]

D:

[Lena]

Everybody in the Balkans is pissed off with Serbia, other conflicts are really small and unimportant. Serbia has made a mess of things since 1912 and everybody hates them.

You lost compass and carved new Balkans to suit your agenda :)

[The Journeyman]

I find the Serb bashing funny, seeing as how the Albanians and Bosniaks have known the rules of balkan wars for generations - there aren't any. Just so happens they weren't backed by Nazi's or Ustasha this time:

"We should endeavor to ensure that the Serb population of Kosovo be – the area be cleansed of them and all Serbs who had been living there for centuries should be termed colonialists and sent to concentration camps in Albania. The Serb settlers should be killed." - Mustafa Kruja

[Panopticon]

You lost compass and carved new Balkans to suit your agenda :)

No, that was you guys. Albanians have never made any claims to any territory without an Albanian majority, which is the only fair thing to do.

[Saruman]

You like to divide the world to black/white.Muslims/Christians.You perfectly know this concepts don't exist in todays secular society.As if your compatriots are better stock than Arab mujaheedins.

Read on what your compatriot Svarog writes.

It is the muslims who are religious fanatics. Are and always were. Islam doesn't recognize "secular society", it doesn't have concepts of "separation of church and state" like the West has, in Islam "Church" is the state.

How "secular" are muslims in the west we see here:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39502

More about those issues from Robert Spencer.
SddesLgxzHM

fwA3jErg9Bc

[Rron]

.......blla blla blla


The occupying regime, parallel to the expulsion of the Albanians from their land, carried out the colonisation with Serbs and Montenegrins there. During the First Balkan War, after Serbian military massacred and displaced the population, the hordes came and took forcefully the land and houses of the Albanians. After the end of the First World War and the establishment of SCSK, the expulsion of ethnic Albanians from their land and colonisation of it by Slavs continued.

From 1912 to 1914, Serbia and Montenegro (according to Serbian documentation) plundered 381,245 hectares of land in Kosova and Macedonia. Only in Kosova 228,000 hectares of land were taken for colonists, and it was settled by 15,943 families of colonists.21 Since 1914 Serbian colonies were erected in Kosova. Colonists were settled at many Albanian villages and settlements that had been forced to become vacant. In addition, the colonies and settlements of colonists in Kosova in the period between 1919-1927 are presented in a table.

These facts indicate clear enough the intention of Serbia for the accomplishment of a Serbian Kosova. On the basis of the evidence provided by Dr Vasa Cubrilovic, 11,273 family houses were built in the territory of Kosova for colonists till 31 December, 1935. However, quite a large number of colonists were settled in the houses of the Albanians that were sent away by force, and a number of Serbian colonists moved into a part of Albanian houses, sharing so the houses with them. That is why it is estimated that 13,938 families of colonists were settled in Kosova.


1919-1927

Districts
Colonies
New settlements

Prishtina
24
22

Llap
20
35

Vushtrri
15
67

Gjilan
10
22

Ferizaj
7
23

Pejë
11
34

Drenicë
9
25

Gjakovë
10
17

Total
106
245


22


To accelerate the process of expatriation he proposed an order to be issued for delivering as many arms as possible to colonists.26 Cubrilovic requested to stimulate the old action of chetniks and to instigate the Montenegrins in order to cause conflicts in mass with the Albanians in the Plain of Dukagjin. The conflict should be interpreted as an intention for uprising of the Albanians and be explained as a conflict among Albanian brothers and neighbours. He requested that Serbia should use its military force against the Albanians, accomplishing the most efficient method of 1878, burning secretly Albanian villages and their quarters in towns.

All the Albanian regions, according to Cubrilovic, should be colonised without any hesitation. On this purpose, Serbia received international loans in 1880, in order to accomplish the policy of ethnic cleansing without any hindrance. This is a testimony for manipulation with international factors in genocidal actions against the Albanian population. Cubrilovic suggested this form of action as well. In order to accomplish ethnic cleansing of the Albanian element and carry out colonisation, he suggested that all the competencies should be concentrated in the had of the military headquarters. All the plans of actions should be prepared by experts also with the intervention of the Parliament. This indicates that this antihuman action involved all the instances of the Serbian regime and military.

At the end of his project, Cubrilovic confirmed that the Albanians were impossible to exterminate by forceful emigration and expatriation and gradual colonisation, therefore, “the sole way and device for the expatriation of the Albanians is the brutal force of the state organised machinery... ruining villages by guns, by punishments, imprisonment, application of police brutal measures, cutting their forests, denying their ownership papers, extraloading them with taxes, forbidding them to sell live cattle, and by brutal behaviour with their children and women.27
The expatriation and assimilation of the Albanians and colonisation of the land of ethnic Albanians by the Serbian hegemonist regime was considered as a Serbian national sacred mission. To accomplish this mission, the Serbian invading regime made use of all possible means, starting from arbitrary laws, killing, burning villages and whole regions, up to forceful conversion of Islamic and Catholic population into the Serbian Orthodox religion.

As a consequence of the implementation of these measures the relations between ethnic groups became tense, particularly between Albanian villagers and Slavonic colonists that had been settled in their land. Besides many other state measures that were taken, the government organised chetnik bands, such as those of Kosta Pecanac, Milic Krstic, Jovan Babunski, Vasilije Trbic, etc., who organised punishing expeditions exerting violence, terror and organising plunder.

Mass expropriation of Albanian villagers resulted to great poverty. As a consequence of ethnic cleansing and colonisation of the Albanian land, a significant change of the ethnic structure of population resulted.

This was also the consequence of liquidation of the Albanian leadership and Islamic and Catholic clergymen.

Settling the Serbs and Montenegrins in the villages and houses of the Albanians and the erection of Serbian colonies in their property had negative influence on their psychological viewpoint and security perspective. The settlement of the Serbs in the whole quarters in cities among Albanians and the life in the proximity of Serbs resulted to emigration of the Albanians and closing elementary religious schools, and that influenced reduction of the educational level of the Albanians.


Notes
1. Limon Rushiti, Rrethanat politiko-shoqërore në Kosovë 1912-1918 (Political-Social Circumstances in Kosova, 1912-1918), Prishtina, 1986, p.9.
2. ASHRSH, fund MKK. D-7, doc. 707936. Turkish statistics of 1911.
3. The Supreme Command of Serbian III Army on 3/IV.1913.
4. Historia e Popullit Shqiptar, II (History of Albanians, II), Prishtina, 1968, p. 352.
5. Ibid., p. 365.
6. Ibid.
7. AS. Bgd. Uredba o javnoj bezbednosti u slobodjenim oblastima 1913 (Decree on Public Security in Liberated Regions, 1913).
8. AS. Bgd. MPB. P.O.F. 15, r. 143/1913.
9. A.C.G. Cetinje, fund of MPB, F-131, doc. 2907.
10. ASHCG, Cetinje, fund MPB, Administrative Section, Reports from Gjakova on 26, and 27 January, 1913, file 40, The letter of Peceli sent to Secretary J.VukotiC on 13/04/1913.
11. It ought to be underlined that two regions: Luma and Has in the district of Prizren, were a territory of Albania according to the London Conference, nevertheless, the SCSK held it occupied until 1920. (AJ - Belgrade, fund 65, file 28, doc. 189, of 02/02/1919, Prizren)
12. Leo Freunderlich, Albanens Golgota... Vien 1913.
13. AVII - Bgd. Pop. II, K-10, doc. no. 242, 25/X/1912.
14. Dr Milivoje Eric, Agrana reforma u Jugoslaviji 1918-1941 (Agrarian Reform in Yugoslavia, 1918-1941), Sarajevo, 1958, p. 140.
15. Dr M. Obradovic, Agrarna Reforma i kolonizacije na Kosovu 1918-1941(Agrarian reform and Colonisation in Kosova, 1918-1941), Prishtina, 1981, p. 51.
16. AJ. Bgd. fund of MIA. doc. of 1918-1921, A VII Bgd. Pop. II, III, IV, Serbian III Army, A.Q.Sh. Tirana, fund of KMKK -D-32 no. 70881, 21/XII/1921.
17. Dokumenti o spolnoj politici Kraljevine Serbije 1903-1914 (Documents on Foreign Policy of the Serbian Kingdom, 1903-1914), Bk. VII, file.1. Belgrade, 1980, pp. 617-618.
18. Dr Branko Babic, Politika Crne Gore u novooslobodjenim krajevima 1912-1914 (The Politics of Montenegro in Newly Liberated Regions, 1912-1914), Titograd, 1984, pp. 267-277.
19. DASIP, fund of Yugoslav Kingdom Legation in Ankara, 1941.
20. AVII - Bgd. Pop. XVII, K-95, doc. no. 429.
21. The Archives of Yugoslavia, fund Agrarna Reforma i Kolonizacija (Agrarian Reform and Colonization), Belgrade, as well as the Archives of Kosova, Prishtina, in which till 1990, 14,765 family cards, i.e., one for each family had been.
22. Djordje Kristic, Kolonizacija Juzne Srbije (Colonisation of South Serbia), Sarajevo 1928, p. 6.
23. Dr Milovan Obradovic, Agrarna Reforma i kolonizacija na Kosovu 1918-1941 (Agrarian Reform and Colonisation in Kosova, 1918-1941), Prishtina, 1981.
24. Svetozar Privicevic, Diktatuara Kralja Aleksandra (Dictatorship of King Aleksandar), Belgrade, 1983, p.15, “Srpski glas”, no. 8/40.
25. Vasa Cubrilovic, Iseljavanje Arnauta (predavanje odrazano u “Srpskom kulturnom klubu” 7.III.1937 (Exulsion of Albanians (Lecture held in ‘Serbian Cultural Club on 7/III/1937).
26. Ibid.
27. Ibid.
28. Dr B.Krizman, Elaborat Ivo Andrica o Albaniji (1939) (The Project of Ivo Andric on Albania), Casopis za suvremenu povjest, no. 2, Zagreb 1977, pp. 77-89.
29. AJ. S. 37/39, Ivan Vukotic, O Albaniji i interesne sfere (On Albania and the Spheres of Interest).
30. AJ. S. 39, secr. doc. on division of Albania, 1939.
31. AJ.37 - Tajni planovi vlade i crkve Svetog Save /39 (Secret Plans of the Government and St. Sava Church /39.
32. AJ. S. 67. F.1/17.
33. Ibid.
34. DASIP. secr. no. 7977, 1939.
35. Ibid., Art. 2 of the Convention.

[The Journeyman]

True: Albanians like to take part in blood feud wars until they realize they suck at it and then cry to NATO when they get tossed out.

[Lena]

he did not know some people behave like they just got out of jungle

He was only guessing and went with a flow... Go read his post one more time.

I understand to some of you this is a source of non-stop fun...pardon me for not 'loling'.

BTW, I know a lot of refugees from Bosnia, Croats and Serbs, if in a position they'll surely tell you a word or two about 'civilized' Bosnian Muslims.

[Lena]

No, that was you guys. Albanians have never made any claims to any territory without an Albanian majority, which is the only fair thing to do.

Horten, I think we already agreed that we disagree.

1/ I had no idea the guy I responded to is an Albo ( he was Greek when I joined this place and now, if I'm not mistaking, he's Italian and it may tell you how seriously I'm taking anything that comes from his pen)
2/ If you believe Greeks and Romanians hate Serbs, wrong you are.

[StonyArabia]

Bosnia is positive because they have accepted some refugees from the Circassia after the Russian conquest. They are also welcoming and hospital people for the most part.

[The Journeyman]

As if your nation are manly in the true sense of the word.You were/are crying to Russia all the time.You see!We are in the same position.

Albanians would know nothing about fighting empires. Serbs have been doing it while your people were footstools for the pasha. Serbs recieved the help of Russians when they were fighting Austria-Hungary, Germany, Bulgaria. And before that, Russia helped (even your people) against the Ottoman Empire, strengthening all the Balkan nations, actually.

Talking about the Balkan Wars, where were the albanians then? :)

[StonyArabia]

Albanians would know nothing about fighting empires. Serbs have been doing it while your people were footstools for the pasha. Serbs asked for the help of Russians when they were fighting Austria-Hungary, Germany, Bulgaria. And before that, Russia helped (even your people) against the Ottoman Empire, strengthening all the Balkan nations, actually.

Talking about the Balkan Wars, where were the albanians then? :)

Ironically Russia took it on the innocent people of the Caucasus:rolleyes2:

[iNird]

I see it as a failed state though I wish it the best.

I don't believe multi-ethnic countries in the Balkans can co-exist. The extreme nationalism by all sides will not allow such a thing to happen.

[StonyArabia]

See.When the Ottoman Empire was in its most critical situation.The war with Tamerlane.Your Serbian knights were the most loyal to them.And saying that Russia helped Albanians is naive.They annexated Albanian territory and gave it to Montenegro and Serbia.

Tamerlane would have destroyed the Ottoman empire, but he would have created his own. His hopes was to dominate the Caucasus, and possibly parts of Eastern Europe. However Tamerlane could not pass over the Caucasus as he was blocked by the Caucasian, Kipchak, and Alanic tribes who eventually defeated him. This why eventually Tamerlane withdraws into Iran and India. The Ottomans also met with another critical hit that was of the Persian invasions which lasted for 150 years. This when the Ottomans began to in decline and began to slowly loose their tight grip on their European areas. As well even the semi-autonomy Crimean Tatar Khanate and Nogai began to lose influence. Tamerlane strengthened the Ottomans, but what weakened them was the Persians who adopted a new obscure sect of Islam known as the Shia and whom they attempted to create an Islamic empire on that. If the European powers attempted to stamp out the Ottomans they could have done it during the chaos of the Persian invasions. However eventually the Ottoman defeat the Persians and annexing parts of Iran into their dominion, however the injuries they have suffered could not be recovered.

[The Journeyman]

See.When the Ottoman Empire was in its most critical situation.The war with Tamerlane.Your Serbian knights were the most loyal to them.And saying that Russia helped Albanians is naive.They annexated Albanian territory and gave it to Montenegro and Serbia.

Russia gave it to the Serbs? :tongue

The entire international community recognized northern albania as Serbian, southern albania Greece.

[StonyArabia]

Because those times were different than now.It was driven by political incorrectness.Today the entire international community recognizes Kosovo too.Serbia and Russia are lobying at other countries to not recognize it especially at Arabic countries.You see you are backed up by Russia.

The Arabic countries are not friends of Russia. The Arab nations have always favored relationship with the United States and the West in general. It's very complex but most Arab nations have not recognized Kosovo, not because of Russian demands but due to fear to secessionist movements that might be inspired by it. Though some nations did. Russia's influence is not strong in the Arab world.

[Rron]

Russia gave it to the Serbs? :tongue

The entire international community recognized northern albania as Serbian, southern albania Greece.

No, entire international comunity know the fact that serbs and greeks occupied our teritories, for example everywhere in documents of time you find these kind of sentences, for example:

Almost all of the territory that was designated to form the new Albanian state was currently occupied by either Greece or Serbia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Balkan_War

[Hurrem sultana]

Iraq,Libya are countries that had great relations with Milosevic...and they have not recognized Kosovo i guess because of that.Iraq never recognized Bosnia!


Has Saudia recognized? funny if not,,one of their main streets in Riyadh is named after Alija Izetbegovic :D

[StonyArabia]

Iraq,Libya are countries that had great relations with Milosevic...and they have not recognized Kosovo i guess because of that

That's partly but also because they feared secessionist movement. As well both favored the West and not Russia. To this day most favor the U.S above Russia. For example Russian and Chinese flags are now being burned instead of American flags. As well America has in a way found itself in the heart of the people there, by supporting democracy well China and Russia are seen as supportive of genocidal maniacs like Assad for example.


Has Saudia recognized? funny if not,,one of their main streets in Riyadh is named after Alija Izetbegovic

Saudi Arabia actually has and so do nations that fall under it's dominion.

[Heart of Oak]

[QUOTE=Minesweeper;663821]Where did it happen?

As far as I can remember the L.Z. We had just left was in the area of Bogovici Nr. Sarajevo, it was the 3rd such attack on us in as many months,the skill of our skipper was unparalleled.I guess someone should write a book about the one's that get away,we had two civilian casualties on board that time according to my diaries.

[Rron]

That's partly but also because they feared secessionist movement.

Why you are lying what kind of secessionist movements exist in Libya for example?

[StonyArabia]

Why you are lying what kind of secessionist movements exist in Libya for example?

There was a movement for some of the Berbers as well some people in the East want to be independent from the former rule of the Libyan government, however they were totally marginalized and often imprisoned if not murdered out right.

[Rron]

There was a movement for some of the Berbers as well some people in the East want to be independent from the former rule of the Libyan government, however they were totally marginalized and often imprisoned if not murdered out right.
Source

[StonyArabia]

Source

Some of the parties that were involved Mouvement populaire de libération de l'Azawad (Popular Movement for Liberation of Azawad), Libya.

Ossan (Ussan): Berber activists from Nafousa Mountain (Yefren) began circulating one of the first Berber publications in Libya. The magazine was distributed secretly, from hand to hand. The magazine continued throughout the 1970s and early 1980s, after which many of its members fled Libya to live in exile. The magazine now can be accessed through its website:
http://ossanlibya.org/.

read more : http://www.temehu.com/imazighen/berberism.htm

[Flintlocke]

I say we should set a date for a fistfight. This whole "You did this, he did that" is pointless and never ending. So let's beat each other till we're cool about it, and the loser pays for the beers ;)

[Rron]

Some of the parties that were involved Mouvement populaire de libération de l'Azawad (Popular Movement for Liberation of Azawad), Libya.

Ossan (Ussan): Berber activists from Nafousa Mountain (Yefren) began circulating one of the first Berber publications in Libya. The magazine was distributed secretly, from hand to hand. The magazine continued throughout the 1970s and early 1980s, after which many of its members fled Libya to live in exile. The magazine now can be accessed through its website:
http://ossanlibya.org/.

read more : http://www.temehu.com/imazighen/berberism.htm
The first link is in arabic language so i cant understand, the second link show some activism to achieve their rights but not secession
from that link :

No doubt, the right to self-govern is the aim of some Berber organisations, as it is natural to be in charge of one's destiny; but the majority of the Berbers have no separatist inclinations and no intention to divide any unity for that matter -- if that is the problem worrying others who fully enjoy the pleasures of cherished identity. "Self-determination" does not mean "dividing a country" at all but "uniting" it on equal basis. Regarding whether autonomy has public support or not among the Berbers and the Berber diaspora is perhaps a voting matter only the persecuted Imazighen can democratically settle, if allowed, of course. Egalitarian as they might be, the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples does guarantee the Berbers (and all other indigenous peoples) the right to self-govern. Like any other human society, do dearly cherish their own identity and pride and need the same human rights others take for granted. Full stop. The Berbers together with the Arabs of Libya were united in their recent uprising, and both mutually, we hope, recognise the full identity & integrity of the other, living together and equally dignified, under the umbrella of One United Libya - simply known as Mother Libya.
About what secession you are talking , here doesnt exist any secessionist idea

[The Journeyman]

Iraq,Libya are countries that had great relations with Milosevic...and they have not recognized Kosovo i guess because of that.Iraq never recognized Bosnia!


Has Saudia recognized? funny if not,,one of their main streets in Riyadh is named after Alija Izetbegovic :D

[Edit] Sorry, out of context and OT.

[Minesweeper]

[QUOTE=Minesweeper;663821]Where did it happen?

As far as I can remember the L.Z. We had just left was in the area of Bogovici Nr. Sarajevo, it was the 3rd such attack on us in as many months,the skill of our skipper was unparalleled.I guess someone should write a book about the one's that get away,we had two civilian casualties on board that time according to my diaries.

Interesting, do you remember the date?

[Heart of Oak]

You can have my P.T.S.D. If you like,for me it is over,maybe it's time you let it go as well.The M.O.D. Have rules,maybe in the next 50 years or so we can talk times and dates.I wish you well.

[Siberyak]

Naser Oric was on the C.I.A payroll.

[The Journeyman]

Would like to visit Visoko, even just for the spectacle they're selling. :D

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1etktGebzCg/Ta57PM0UPOI/AAAAAAAABV8/Bfo8TrKklmk/s1600/bosnian_pyramid6.jpg

http://wideshut.co.uk/images/host/images/80302041733607440847.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_pyramids

[Stegura]

I've always loved these Balkan drama threads. Grab a beer and a bag of popcorn and get ready for some fun reading! :)

As for Bosnia and Herzegovina, my view is negative. It's not negative in that I hate or dislike Bosnians. I just dislike Bosnia becuase it's a multi-ethnic and multi-faith cesspool artificial nation created by NATO.

Bosnia isn't a melting pot, it's a boiling cauldron!

I believe in nation states. The powers who created Bosnia and Herzegovina did so becuase they fear big, proud, strong, nationalistic, homogenous, and unified countries. The European Union would rather have small, weak, decadent, and divided multicultural nations like Bosnia and Herzegovina instead.

Serbia should liberate the suffering Serbs of the Srpska Republic and reunite those lands back into Serbia. The Croatians living in southern Bosnia along the Dalmation coastline should also secede and become part of a greater Croatia! Bosnian Serbs and Croats would be happilly reunited with their respective Motherlands! It would be a glorious day for them for them to never have to live in a falied multicultural state ever again!

Of course Bosnia would retain their independnce. However, their lands would be reduced to make way for a bigger and more unified Serbia and Croatia. And if the Bosniaks wish to remain Muslim and pratice their more westernized version of Islam then so let them. With the Serbian and Croatian minorites partionted out of Bosnia, Bosnia would become a more unified, stable, prosperous, and homogenous state. Bosniaks would find it much easier to pursue their own interests and to achieve their own self-determination.