Old Novgorod

[Lemminkäinen]

According to Russian historical books, Novgorod was a multinational trading place, whose administration represented an early form of democracy. The city's nationalities also include Finns and Karelians, who are originally from Finnish tribes.

The graphic I have made now indeed shows that Finnish roots can still be found 554 years after the city lost its independence. Moscow conquered the city in 1471. Finnish heritage today is of course not even close to what it was at the time of Novgorod's greatness.

It must be considered that the current PCA only covers the relationships between the peoples represented in it. For example, Siberian heritage is therefore ignored, as are Caucasian and southern influences. Scandinavia and the Baltic have been taken into account. Of course, a two-dimensional presentation with the two most significant PCA dimensions does not cover all similarities, but based on the image it is clear that in Novgorod, Finnishness is clearly stronger than Scandinavianness.

This result raises questions among both Finns and Russians. Politics aside, I fully understand the problems with genetics-based demography because of its possible new interpretations. However, we must ask what is a new interpretation of things and whether a new interpretation of history is always progressive. These things need to be examined openly, both in terms of the data and the results obtained.

Mordovians lean towards eastern Finno-Ugric people, which are not included in this picture.

The Kursk sample is an outier, drifting another one a bit to the same direction.


https://i.postimg.cc/FR0MV9fQ/pca1-1-2finns.gif (https://postimg.cc/ZBKsTzFf)

[Vessna]

Based on your post history, looks like you really want Russia to conquer Finland again :D

Novgorod was an Old Rus city, culturally and linguistically Slavic at its peak. While Varangians and various Finno-Ugric tribes lived in the region, they were clearly Slavicized with time based on historical and linguistic data. Genetically, the modern population of Novgorod belongs to the Northern Russian group, which is closely related to Finno-Ugric people but distinct enough to form their own population cluster.

[vandor]

Based on your post history, looks like you really want Russia to conquer Finland again :D

Novgorod was an Old Rus city, culturally and linguistically Slavic at its peak. While Varangians and various Finno-Ugric tribes lived in the region, they were clearly Slavicized with time based on historical and linguistic data. Genetically, the modern population of Novgorod belongs to the Northern Russian group, which is closely related to Finno-Ugric people but distinct enough to form their own population cluster.

So called Russian North is situated more Eastern, spreaded from Yaroslavl to Arkhangelsk. Novgorod and Pskov more is a Western Russia and has never existed that isolated as Russian North, where populace is a result of mix of Slavic settlers and local Slavicized tribes. Considering that colonists were less in numbers than locals, locals had significant genetic influence on what is now Northern Russians, they have strong finno ugric influence.

This region had always low population density with few millions of people living mainly in few cities and others living in majority by the villages and towns on the rivers. It was always distanced and isolated part of Russia with high rates of depopulation since beginning of 20 century, people are moving somewhere else.

[vandor]

https://i.ibb.co/Xr6XDxb5/i.webp

[Lemminkäinen]

Based on your post history, looks like you really want Russia to conquer Finland again :D

Novgorod was an Old Rus city, culturally and linguistically Slavic at its peak. While Varangians and various Finno-Ugric tribes lived in the region, they were clearly Slavicized with time based on historical and linguistic data. Genetically, the modern population of Novgorod belongs to the Northern Russian group, which is closely related to Finno-Ugric people but distinct enough to form their own population cluster.

Haha, you read Russian media. No one in Finland wants Karelia, not even old Karelians living here.

You are wrong about the old Novgorod. It was a multilingual town and people spoke Slavic, Baltic and Finnic languages. It was s trade place where nationalities met in business. For example selling and buying furs. In those days people in business spoke foreign languages.

Varangians didn't live there during the second millennium. Sweden and Russia were in war and only Swedes in Novgorod were likely slaves to be sold to Orient.

[vandor]

Haha, you read Russian media. No one in Finland wants Karelia, not even old Karelians living here.

You are wrong about the old Novgorod. It was a multilingual town and people spoke Slavic, Baltic and Finnic languages. It was s trade place where nationalities met in business. For example selling and buying furs. In those days people in business spoke foreign languages.

Varangians didn't live there during the second millennium. Sweden and Russia were in war and only Swedes in Novgorod were likely slaves to be sold to Orient.

Russian media barely cover such topics and I guess 95% of average Russians barely care about such questions. They're not actual, anyway.