who is closer: Celts and Germanics or Slavs and Balts?

[Niegosław Paprocki]

Slavs and Balts in my view.

[LightInDarkness]

Slavs and Balts

[Bakura]

Slavs and Balts in my view.

Agreed!

[safinator]

Slavs and Balts

[rhiannon]

Both are similar enough

[Dandelion]

No idea. One may see more linguistic similarities between Slavic and Baltic languages versus between Germanic and Celtic ones, but that doesn't mean everything. Celtic languages differ in structure a whole lot more for borrowings to be made possible. Let's say, both mix a lot more heterogeneously.

[Stefan]

Celts and Italics :P

[Tony]

Balts and Slavs.
Celtics and Germans seem to me pretty different, in terms of phenotypes, styles and general attitude.

[member]

I know there is this Celto-Germanic "friendship" propagated on this kind of forums, but I don't know much about it.

[Dacul]

After genetical tests is clear that north slavs and balts are very closed people.
Is not same with celts and germanics which have more wide range admixtures.

[safinator]

Celts and Germanics

[Andrew]

Baltic and Slavic languages are closer to each other than Celtic and Germanic are to each other. Baltic and Slavic both evolved from Balto-Slavic, and like Stefan has mentioned, Celtic evolved from Celto-Italic.
As far as linguists know, Germanic is just a group on its own. It may have some connection to long extinct, forgotten language families, but we'll never know now.

As for culture, Balts and Slavs are pretty close. I'd say ancient Celts and Germanics were pretty similar too, although Celtic religion was drastically different from Germanic, Slavic or Baltic and ancient Germanics were probably closer overall to Slavs and Balts.

In a modern context though, the remnants of the Celts are closer to the Germanics due to English domination and isolation from the Romance (Italic) areas of Europe (Brittany being the exception). Modern Celts are closer to Germanics than Slavs and Balts are to each other, but overall, Germanics are quite a unique group and have had a large influence over their Celtic and Finnic neighbours.


Balts and Slavs.
Celtics and Germans seem to me pretty different, in terms of phenotypes, styles and general attitude.

Seem pretty similar to me.


I know there is this Celto-Germanic "friendship" propagated on this kind of forums, but I don't know much about it.

It sort of exists in real life, modern Celts are very much North Western. Scotland is trying to position itself as a Nordic country for example.

[Ianus]

Balts and Slavs

[justme]

Slavs and Balts.

[Grace O'Malley]

I think Celts and Germanics would be very close as the original Celts came for Middle Europe - Germany, Switzerland etc. Celtic is mostly a culture though and I am not sure how much genetics the modern Celts of Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Brittany share with the original Celts.

[Albion]

Slavs and Germanics (except for English - we're closer to Celts).

[Cail]

Closer in what? Linguistically, Germanics are closer to Balto-Slavs then they are to Celts. Anthropologically, it's impossible to give a straight answer since modern Germanic populations are too diverse, some are basically Celtic genetically, while others have a lot of Slavic blood, and yet others are relatively pure. Historically, ancient Germanic tribes were more closely related to the Balto-Slavic ones (same reason as for the language - shared Germano-Balto-Slavic ancestral origin).

[Äike]

Slavs and Balts for sure, there's a reason why some linguists still use the term "Balto-Slavic", as they split so recently.

Balto-Slavs are all Eastern-Europeans to me as they're about in terms of culture, mentality and language (with some deviations, like the Balts).

[Not a Cop]

Basicly ancient Germanics should be closer to Balto-Slavs, then to Celt, in modern terms - Balto-Slavs are closer

[JeanBaMac]

Baltic and Slavic languages are closer to each other than Celtic and Germanic are to each other. Baltic and Slavic both evolved from Balto-Slavic, and like Stefan has mentioned, Celtic evolved from Celto-Italic.
As far as linguists know, Germanic is just a group on its own. It may have some connection to long extinct, forgotten language families, but we'll never know now.

As for culture, Balts and Slavs are pretty close. I'd say ancient Celts and Germanics were pretty similar too, although Celtic religion was drastically different from Germanic, Slavic or Baltic and ancient Germanics were probably closer overall to Slavs and Balts.

In a modern context though, the remnants of the Celts are closer to the Germanics due to English domination and isolation from the Romance (Italic) areas of Europe (Brittany being the exception). Modern Celts are closer to Germanics than Slavs and Balts are to each other, but overall, Germanics are quite a unique group and have had a large influence over their Celtic and Finnic neighbours.



Seem pretty similar to me.



It sort of exists in real life, modern Celts are very much North Western. Scotland is trying to position itself as a Nordic country for example.

There is also a strong Celtic admixture in England, the Netherlands and Southern Germany.

[Rugevit]

There are no two Indo-European linguistic families being as similar as Baltic and Slavic. Baltic and Slavic languages are probably as close to each other as western and northern Germanic languages.

http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/365/1559/3829.full.pdf


http://s8.postimg.org/shj8hxqtx/5v599t.jpg (http://postimage.org/)



------


Genetic and anthropological similarities depend on populations being compared. English and Scottish are more similar than Latvians and Bulgarians. On the other hand, northern Slavs and Balts are more similar to each other than Swedes and Welsh.

[Hevo]

There is also a strong Celtic admixture in England, the Netherlands and Southern Germany.

No there isn't.

[Rudel]

No there isn't.
The Netherlands, at least South of the Rhine, were a mixed area in ancient times (as was most of the Western bank).
But we're speaking in ethno-cultural terms, it's not certain the genetic composition of the region changed much at all.

[Hevo]

The Netherlands, at least South of the Rhine, were a mixed area in ancient times (as was most of the Western bank).



They were probably a mixed bunch but it's not certain if these people that lived in Southern Netherlands were Celts or rather Celtized Northwestblock people(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordwestblock) etc. According to Luc van Durme, a Belgian linguist, toponymic evidence to a former Celtic presence in the Low Countries is near to utterly absent. However, it's not true that there is strong Celtic admixture in any part of the Netherlands.

[JeanBaMac]

Baltic and Slavic languages are closer to each other than Celtic and Germanic are to each other. Baltic and Slavic both evolved from Balto-Slavic, and like Stefan has mentioned, Celtic evolved from Celto-Italic.
As far as linguists know, Germanic is just a group on its own. It may have some connection to long extinct, forgotten language families, but we'll never know now.

As for culture, Balts and Slavs are pretty close. I'd say ancient Celts and Germanics were pretty similar too, although Celtic religion was drastically different from Germanic, Slavic or Baltic and ancient Germanics were probably closer overall to Slavs and Balts.

In a modern context though, the remnants of the Celts are closer to the Germanics due to English domination and isolation from the Romance (Italic) areas of Europe (Brittany being the exception). Modern Celts are closer to Germanics than Slavs and Balts are to each other, but overall, Germanics are quite a unique group and have had a large influence over their Celtic and Finnic neighbours.



Seem pretty similar to me.



It sort of exists in real life, modern Celts are very much North Western. Scotland is trying to position itself as a Nordic country for example.


According to eupedia.com, Germanic culture results from the blending of Tumulus culture (Proto-Italo-Celtic) with the Nordic Bronze Age (which resuls from the blending of Funnelbeaker and Corded Ware/Battle axe people). The non-indo-european vocabulary in Germanic language is probably of Funnelbeaker (CroMagnon) derivation.

[Guapo]

Germanics and slavs

[Eusocial]

Celts and Germans are pretty different in terms of physique, look, and psychological attitude. Germans are pretty disciplined/organized, physically fit, prosocial, and technological. German culture has a strong tendency to unity and internal logic. Really nobody else comes close, except maybe the Chinese.

Celts don't really excel in these qualities. The one area where Celts have left their mark is religion. Lots of monasteries even in Central Europe and Italy were built by Irish. That's the one gift of the Celts. The orderly austerity and ritual of German Catholicism has a Celtic stamp IMO.

Celts also have a gift for music (hardly unique) and some types of poetic imagination. It's more powerful when others shape it into more logically organized systems: like Tolkein, Heidegger (his aimless quasi-religious ramblings seem a bit Celtic IMO), the Grail and King Arthur literature, etc. Notice again there is an emotive-religious strain in all this.

Balts are a bit different from Slavs. Both tend towards the irrational from a Western point of view. Both are emotionally driven cultures. But the gap - physically and psychologically - seems smaller than the gulf between Celts and Germans.

[Guapo]

Celts and Germans are pretty different in terms of physique, look, and psychological attitude. Germans are pretty disciplined/organized, physically fit, prosocial, and technological. German culture has a strong tendency to unity and internal logic. Really nobody else comes close, except maybe the Chinese.

Celts don't really excel in these qualities. The one area where Celts have left their mark is religion. Lots of monasteries even in Central Europe and Italy were built by Irish. That's the one gift of the Celts. The orderly austerity and ritual of German Catholicism has a Celtic stamp IMO.

Celts also have a gift for music (hardly unique) and some types of poetic imagination. It's more powerful when others shape it into more logically organized systems: like Tolkein, Heidegger (his rambling a seem Celtic IMO), the Grail and King Arthur literature, etc. Notice again there is an emotive-religious strain in all this.

Balts are a bit different from Slavs. Both tend towards the irrational from a Western point of view. Both are emotionally driven cultures. But the gap - physically and psychologically - seems smaller than the gulf between Celts and Germans.
R1b Germans are Celts, short and dark like the transylvanian volksdeutschers. I1 Germanics are of different stock,Aryan, physically and germanized the midgets

[Smaug]

Baltic and Slavs. Celts have nothing to do with Germanics.

[Gustave H]

Slavs and Balts.

[Eusocial]

R1b Germans are Celts, short and dark like the transylvanian volksdeutschers. I1 Germanics are of different stock,Aryan, physically and germanized the midgets

Maybe not far from the truth. German history has a weird tension of trying to overcome the splitting into divergent cultures. Splitting and reunifying, finding some essence. The Germans are the only ones who have a real feeling for "Europeanness."

The Italians have 'talianita. The British/AngloSaxons have free markets and the "rational economically motivated man." The Spanish have Latino warmth and slightly more chilly Castillian reserve. The Irish have their beer and their church. The Russians have their empire. The French have their revolution and universal/cosmopolitan secularism.

But only the Germans have really tried - in their better moments - to discover what it is to be - as Nietzsche said: not merely parochial nationalists, not merely
"Good Germans" - but instead "Good Europeans." To find a golden thread that can somehow unify the shades of so many local differences as part of a coherent functioning whole.

[Smaug]

I think Celts and Germanics would be very close as the original Celts came for Middle Europe - Germany, Switzerland etc. Celtic is mostly a culture though and I am not sure how much genetics the modern Celts of Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Brittany share with the original Celts.

Celts came from Central Europe and Germanics originated in Northern Europe, Southern Norway and Northern Germany more precisely. They have nothing in common, while Balts and Slavs descend both from the same group, and are still close linguistically even nowadays.

[Guapo]

Celts came from Central Europe and Germanics originated in Northern Europe, Southern Norway and Northern Germany more precisely. They have nothing in common, while Balts and slavs descend both from the same group, and are still close linguistically even nowadays.

huh? I cant understand an estonian even if you gave me 500 sheep to lie

[Guapo]

Maybe not far from the truth. German history has a weird tension of trying to overcome the splitting into divergent cultures. Splitting and reunifying, finding some essence. The Germans are the only ones who have a real feeling for "Europeanness."

The Italians have 'talianita. The British/AngloSaxons have free markets and the "rational economically motivated man." The Spanish have Latino warmth and slightly more chilly Castillian reserve. The Irish have their beer and their church. The Russians have their empire. The French have their revolution and universal/cosmopolitan secularism.

But only the Germans have really tried to discover what it is to be - as Nietzsche said: not merely parochial nationalists, but instead "Good Europeans." To me that's why the Germans always were transfixed by the ancient Greeks. They wanted to find the iconic/archetypal essence of what makes Europe stand out among the nations of the world.

Nazisim would be different if they had genetics in their hands, goebbels wouldve been hung by his little balls

[Smaug]

huh? I cant understand an estonian even if you gave me 500 sheep to lie

Estonians are not Baltic, they are Finnic. Lithuanians and Latvians are Baltic.

[Äijä]

Celts came from Central Europe and Germanics originated in Northern Europe, Southern Norway and Northern Germany more precisely. They have nothing in common, while Balts and slavs descend both from the same group, and are still close linguistically even nowadays.

There is continuity so the toponomy points to Scania, Denmark, North Germany but I would not rule out present Poland-Baltic as the original place of origin for Germanic.

[Eusocial]

Nazisim would be different if they had genetics in their hands, goebbels wouldve been hung by his little balls

Yes.

[Guapo]

Estonians are not Baltic, they are Finnic. Lithuanians and Latvians are Baltic.

Again, cant understand a lithuanian or latvian even if you gave me one million sheep to lie, they are not slavs

[Guapo]

They would have had to confront that many of the best Germans - even many of the Nordic physical ideal that they worshipped almost religiously - were part Jewish or even fully Jewish. Of course also many of their own top anti-Semitic ranks.

The best Germans are not politicians but hard working average folk. Hitler was a lazy E3b Austrian scum

[Smaug]

There is continuity so the toponomy points to Scania, Denmark, North Germany but I would not rule out present Poland-Baltic as the original place of origin for Germanic.

Well, this whole area was part of the Corded Ware Culture, so indeed we can say there is a shared continuum, which is however not shared by Celts or Italic, who belonged to another cultural area.

[Guapo]

Well, this whole area was part of the Corded Ware Culture, so indeed we can say there is a shared continuum, which is however not shared by Celts or Italic, who belonged to another cultural area.

original Slavic area was present day belarus, they didnt slavicize the balts or karl the estonian viking

[Smaug]

Again, cant understand a lithuanian or latvian even if you gave me one million sheep to lie, they are not slavs

I believe you. But liguistically Baltic and Slavic share more similarities than Germanic and Celt. A Germanic would never understand a Celt speaking its native tongue. Baltic and Slavic are like wine and champagne: different, but similar in its core. Celtic and Germanic are like wine and petroleum: they have nothing in common.

[Smaug]

original Slavic area was present day belarus, they didnt slavicize the balts or karl the estonian viking

Yes, but Baltic came from Slavic. The Baltic languages separated from the Slavic languages after those tribes had contact with the Corded Ware Culture. There was also a possible, but not confirmed yet, Uralic substratum present in both Baltic and Germanic urheimaten.

[Guapo]

urheimaten.

Say that 10 times quickly

[Guapo]

what was the question again?

[Guapo]

Ein Prosit, Ein Prosit, der Gemutlichkeit Eins, zwei, drei, g'suffa

[Rudel]

German culture has a strong tendency to unity
Now this is just getting hilarious.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/HRR_1789_EN.png/1256px-HRR_1789_EN.png

:loco:


Lots of monasteries even in Central Europe and Italy were built by Irish. That's the one gift of the Celts.
This is the gift of Ireland being so irrelevant it became during the Early Middle Ages a natural reserve for Latin Christianity.

[Raven_]

Celtic was originally closer to Latin than Germanic. It is commonly accepted thyat Baltic Slavic evolved from the same language (proto-Balto-Slavic).

[Raven_]

Yes, but Baltic came from Slavic. The Baltic languages separated from the Slavic languages after those tribes had contact with the Corded Ware Culture. There was also a possible, but not confirmed yet, Uralic substratum present in both Baltic and Germanic urheimaten.

Baltic didn't come from Slavic. They both evolved from the same proto language (proto-Balto-Slavic). Your theory about Corded Ware is something from the fantasy world. Corded Ware is associated with speakers of Northwest Indo-European dialects. (http://indo-european.eu/wiki/index.php/North-West_Indo-European)That is, proto-Germanic, proto-Balto-Slavic and others evolved within this culture.

[Smaug]

Baltic didn't come from Slavic. They both evolved from the same proto language (proto-Balto-Slavic). Your theory about Corded Ware is something from the fantasy world. Corded Ware is associated with speakers of Northwest Indo-European dialects. (http://indo-european.eu/wiki/index.php/North-West_Indo-European)That is, proto-Germanic, proto-Balto-Slavic and others evolved within this culture.

I never said Baltic came from Slavic, hence I used the world "separated". And the modern-day area of Baltic speech was part and has influences from the Corded Ware horizon.

[Ctwentysevenj]

Slavs and Balts I feel are closer.

[Raven_]

I never said Baltic came from Slavic


Yes, but Baltic came from Slavic.



hence I used the world "separated". And the modern-day area of Baltic speech was part and has influences from the Corded Ware horizon.


The Baltic languages separated from the Slavic languages after those tribes had contact with the Corded Ware Culture.

Pls read what you write.

[Smaug]

Pls read what you write.

Baltic and Slavic share a common origin, both came from the same proto-language. It's like the Italo-Celtic hypothesis.

[Jackson]

Balts and Slavs. Even Germanic is arguably closer to Balto-Slavic. Although i'd say genetically speaking many Germanic groups are closer to Celtic groups, but they bridge the gap between Celtic and Balto-Slavic northern Europeans.

[JeanBaMac]

They were probably a mixed bunch but it's not certain if these people that lived in Southern Netherlands were Celts or rather Celtized Northwestblock people(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordwestblock) etc. According to Luc van Durme, a Belgian linguist, toponymic evidence to a former Celtic presence in the Low Countries is near to utterly absent. However, it's not true that there is strong Celtic admixture in any part of the Netherlands.

It's possible that the "NW Block" language family was a distant cousin of the Celtic language family (similar to the Iberic or Italic languages), characterized by a kʷ > p mutation similar to that observed in P-Celtic languages.

In this scenario, Proto-Germanic culture was probably a fusion between the Nordwestblock culture, the Corded-Ware/Battle-Axe culture (which also gave the Balto-Slavic languages) and the Funnelbeaker culture (which was mostly Cro-Magnon).

Germanic languages share many similarities with P-Celtic languages (the sound "p" evolved into "f" : four, five)... but also some common words with Balto-Slavic languages (ex: English thousand, Polish tysiąc, Lithuanian tūkstantis)...

In addition, Germanic language have many words of non-Indo-European origin, that are also absent in Finno-Ugric languages, and that were probably inherited from an ancient Cro-Magnon culture (Funnelbeaker ?) :
http://www.eupedia.com/linguistics/non-indo-european_germanic_words.shtml

[Rugevit]

Baltic and Slavic share a common origin, both came from the same proto-language. It's like the Italo-Celtic hypothesis.

You made a mistake stating 'Baltic came from Slavic'. If it was the other way around i.e. 'Slavic came from Baltic' no-one would have noticed it even if both Slavic and Baltic linguistic families stemmed from a common ancestor. ;)

[Tooting Carmen]

about the same

[Maximum Speed]

Slavs and Balts of course

[Smaug]

about the same

No way. Baltic and Slavic share a close common ancestor, Celtic and Germanic do not. Celtic is closer to Italic.

[Hevo]

It's possible that the "NW Block" language family was a distant cousin of the Celtic language family (similar to the Iberic or Italic languages), characterized by a kʷ > p mutation similar to that observed in P-Celtic languages.

Concerning the language spoken by the Iron Age Nordwestblock population, Kuhn speculated on linguistic affinity to the Venetic language, other hypotheses connect the Northwestblock with the Raetic ("Tyrsenian") or generic Centum Indo-European (Illyrian, "Old European"). Gysseling suspected an intermediate Belgian language between Germanic and Celtic, that might have been affiliated to Italic. I don't think they were a subgroup of Hallstat Celts but a group on it's own. Unfortunately, there is not enough evidence to back up this hypthese but it kinda makes sense to me.

[Hercus Monte]

slavs and balts. at least linguistically.
culturally, contemporary celts and germanics are very similar, I'm not sure if balts and slavs are as similar culturally as celts and germanics.
Contemporary Balts have practically identical cultures, slavs on the other hand have very diverse cultures, so it's difficult to say if we have similar cultures.

from the historical perspective, culturally all slavs, balts and Germanics are similar. While Celtic is quite foreign to all 3.

[armenianbodyhair]

Your mother and I

[Grace O'Malley]

slavs and balts. at least linguistically.
culturally, contemporary celts and germanics are very similar, I'm not sure if balts and slavs are as similar culturally as celts and germanics.
Contemporary Balts have practically identical cultures, slavs on the other hand have very diverse cultures.

from the historical perspective, culturally all slavs, balts and Germanics are similar. While Celtic is quite foreign to all 3.

That's a strange statement to make. The Celtic culture is originally from the Swiss/German/Austrian area.

[Hercus Monte]

That's a strange statement to make. The Celtic culture is originally from the Swiss/German/Austrian area.

the pantheon is very different, while the Germanic, baltic, and slavic pantheons are practically identical. only names differ.

[Grace O'Malley]

the pantheon is very different, while the Germanic, baltic, and slavic pantheons are practically identical. only names differ.

That doesn't make much sense. You do realise that a lot of people in Germany have Celtic roots especially Bavarians. I think they recognise this as well. Wide areas of Europe were Celtic in the past so I don't know why it would be foreign to Germanics whom many were originally Celts themselves. :confused:

[The King, I am]

Celts and Slavs are closer than Celts and Germanic or Balts
and Germanics and Balts are closer

[Hithaeglir]

Slavs and Balts.

[Hercus Monte]

That doesn't make much sense. You do realise that a lot of people in Germany have Celtic roots especially Bavarians. I think they recognise this as well. Wide areas of Europe were Celtic in the past so I don't know why it would be foreign to Germanics whom many were originally Celts themselves. :confused:
I'm not talking about genetics. I'm talking about non-contemporary Culture.
Celtic culture, at least for the past millennia, was almost exclusive for the British Isles.

[Grace O'Malley]

Celts and Slavs are closer than Celts and Germanic or Balts
and Germanics and Balts are closer

Yeah especially these guys.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEt2XdN_TbQ

[Serg]

Slavs and Balts

[♥ Lily ♥]

There is also a strong Celtic admixture in England, the Netherlands and Southern Germany.

That's true.

[FeederOfRavens]

There is also a strong Celtic admixture in England, the Netherlands and Southern Germany.

Not true for the Netherlands.

[Hevo]

That's true.

I don't know who invented the fairy tale that there is strong Celtic admixture in The Netherlands but that's not true at all. It's actually negligible.

[FeederOfRavens]

I don't know who invented the fairy tale that there is strong Celtic admixture in The Netherlands but that's not true at all. It's actually negligible.

People find Celtic Artifacts and assume Celts must of settled without taking in other factors like trade and war booty. They found Celtic artifacts in Jutland, the homeland of Germanic peoples. Does this mean Jutlanders are Celtic? No.

[Hevo]

People find Celtic Artifacts and assume Celts must of settled without taking in other factors like trade and war booty. They found Celtic artifacts in Jutland, the homeland of Germanic peoples. Does this mean Jutlanders are Celtic? No.

You are right. I would also like to add that The Netherlands was quite sparsely populated before the germanic migrations(some coastal areas were even deserted due floodings according to some Dutch archaeologists) and was heavily settled by Frisians/Saxons/Salian Franks and assimilated the germanic tribes like Cananefates/Batavians etc.

[FeederOfRavens]

You are right. I would also like to add that The Netherlands was quite sparsely populated before the germanic migrations(some coastal areas were even deserted due floodings according to some Dutch archaeologists) and was heavily settled by Frisians/Saxons/Salian Franks and assimilated the germanic tribes like Cananefates/Batavians etc.

Yes, the Frisii were nearly wiped out in the late roman era.

[Belenos]

Celts and Germans are pretty different in terms of physique, look, and psychological attitude. Germans are pretty disciplined/organized, physically fit, prosocial, and technological. German culture has a strong tendency to unity and internal logic. Really nobody else comes close, except maybe the Chinese.

Celts don't really excel in these qualities. The one area where Celts have left their mark is religion. Lots of monasteries even in Central Europe and Italy were built by Irish. That's the one gift of the Celts. The orderly austerity and ritual of German Catholicism has a Celtic stamp IMO.

Celts also have a gift for music (hardly unique) and some types of poetic imagination. It's more powerful when others shape it into more logically organized systems: like Tolkein, Heidegger (his aimless quasi-religious ramblings seem a bit Celtic IMO), the Grail and King Arthur literature, etc. Notice again there is an emotive-religious strain in all this.

Balts are a bit different from Slavs. Both tend towards the irrational from a Western point of view. Both are emotionally driven cultures. But the gap - physically and psychologically - seems smaller than the gulf between Celts and Germans.

What a bunch of stupid assertions !! You have read too much of old racist anthropology.

[Wanderer]

Slavs & Balts. We know the Baltic & Slavic languages share a relatively recent common origin. The (original) relationship between Celts & Germanics is not really certain.

[Chev Chelios]

Blats and Slavs

[Token]

Slavs and Balts, obviously.