My idea for a new South Africa

[The Lawspeaker]

Fact: the Bantu are invaders that have no right to hold South African soil.. but suppose that they could be thrown out of the country what would South Africa look like - politically ?


My idea would be a new Union of South Africa that is considerably larger then today as I would seek to add Namibia and Rhodesia to it. The state would be federal instead of unitary and the government would be granted just about the same powers as the Canadian government with special amends being made for the German-speakers in South West, the Rehoboth Basters in South-West and the San. For the national government the main languages would be Afrikaans and English. The Union of South Africa should also serve as a home for many of the displaced and endangered White Africans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Africans_of_European_ancestry) and to a lesser extent for those, more intelligent and educated, Africans (and that may include some Bantu) that are in danger of being killed in their own country.



Capital:
Pretoria or a new city. (the legislative, administrative, judicial and archival functions brought together in one new capital).

Flag:
Based on the South African flag but maybe with a new crest.


Anthem:
The Call of South Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Stem_van_Suid-Afrika)

Each province will of course keep it's own flags, crests and anthems.

System of government:
Federal parliamentary constitutional monarchy. Bicameralism.

Provinces:

Cape Province (capital: Cape Town)

Transvaal (capital: Johannesburg)

Orange Free State (capital: Bloemfontein)

Natal Province (capital: Pietermaritzburg)

Rhodesia ( capital: Salisbury)

South-West (capital: Windhoek)

And of course (much like the DC in the U.S): the Capital-Region around Pretoria.

International Relations:
Not much changes there but most importantly - the Commonwealth of Nations and the Dutch Language Union.

Until most of the remaining Bantu can be kicked out it would be a return to the Bantustans:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Southafricanhomelandsmap.png

The San (Khoi in general), Herrero, Rehoboth Basters and Griekwa will have a similar status as the First Nations in Canada and will be respected in their cultural, political and property rights (as enshrined in a Constitution).

[RoyBatty]

Hard to say.... my personal preference would be to carve out a smallish territory at the coast (a port is essential) , to mine the borders and to of course make it racially and culturally harmonious and compatible.

The problem is that everybody and his dog in SA have their own ideas about what a homeland is supposed to be. They don't want to start over, they don't want to move from where they already live etc etc.

The idea would be to abandon the rest of the country to the blacks and of course, whites and whoever else want to stay there and do business there whilst the newly formed WhiteStan will cater to whites.

[Zephyr]

Look what we built...

Mozambique
kiheHNbUpmA

Angola
hVtYlkMokJg
(notice the first ballade of the second video was written by black musicians, even many of them realise)

All lost :icon_sad:

[Fernando]

Good luck! I believe they should kick all the blacks out and ship them somewhere else.

[Flintlocke]

Look what we built...

Temporarily lost :icon_sad:

Fix'd it for ya.

[Zephyr]

Fix'd it for ya.

It's better to accept the loss.

Millions left to South Africa, Australia, United States, one million returned to Portugal (an event that caused a major crisis). Meanwhile the black population multiplied and destroyed almost everything. Chinese are their main investors now. There's nothing left. Only South Africa has a significant european community today.

This map is but a dream of what could have been a new civilisation:

http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/38/128838-004-E72D49BD.gif

[Flintlocke]

With perseverance, ruthlessness, discipline, and a bad attitude, it can be so again.

[The Lawspeaker]

The best idea would be to abandon Africa and withdraw to South Africa and South-West Africa and slowly reconquer those areas. Leaving the rest of Africa to sink into the mire.

[The Lawspeaker]

An interesting voice from the past:

vPCln9czoys

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

Africa without africans: tropical paradise, with diamonds and uranium.

Africa with africans: big favela full of scat.

[The Lawspeaker]

Africa without africans: tropical paradise, with diamonds and uranium.

Africa with africans: big favela full of scat.
That is a very accurate description of Africa. All the diseases - it can be conquered by science. Africa could support quite an impressive civilization. It has the resources and it has the space.

[AussieScott]

I agree with pulling back into South Africa. Let the SandWorms make a profit out of the ensuing chaos, no doubt they will make more money over seas as well. Then if by chance the world economy sinks and China's support can be cut off, then perhaps Europeans can gain a stronghold again, under the new colonial frame work of humanitarianism...for the native rights of the Bushmen.

Start to ramp up coal to oil process plants and then expand the manufacturing and state economy from there. The farm lands in Rhodesia would need to be taken if you were to make a real go of it in the expansion phase, for food exports which no doubt the world will be crying for.

Exporting food and Uranium to India may just keep the Chinese worried enough to keep them busy for a while...:D

[Hurrem sultana]

Good luck! I believe they should kick all the blacks out and ship them somewhere else.

where would you send them?

you think they are backwards and stupid like they used to be before 100 years ago?

[The Lawspeaker]

where would you send them?

you think they are backwards and stupid like they used to be before 100 years ago?
No we don't think that. We know. Just read the papers. And where we would send them ? Back to where they came from. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_expansion) Let them ruin Nigeria or the Congo (not that these places can become any worse hellholes then they already are).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Bantu_Phillipson.png

[Hurrem sultana]

No we don't think that. We know. Just read the papers. And where we would send them ? Back to where they came from. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_expansion)

then why not sending the whites back to Europe too?

sorry,cant agree on it,i am thankfull this is 2012 and even the whites would not agree on it!:coffee:

[AussieScott]

then why not sending the whites back to Europe too?

sorry,cant agree on it,i am thankfull this is 2012 and even the whites would not agree on it!:coffee:

It's all hypothetical, of course you never know what the future holds when chaos starts to reign rather then order. Kind of like a double headed phoenix. ;)

Whites in the future may not be as comfortable as they are now, the higher a peoples fall from, the more eager they will be to climb back out again.

[The Lawspeaker]

then why not sending the whites back to Europe too?

sorry,cant agree on it,i am thankfull this is 2012 and even the whites would not agree on it!:coffee:
With that logic we should send you lot back to Turkey.

[Hurrem sultana]

well again even if it happens,how will they do it? their power will not dominate like before.Obama would not agree for example ;)

[Hurrem sultana]

With that logic we should send you lot back to Turkey.

i know my family line back to few hundred years..when we were Catholics too,,so sorry,but i am from Bosnia

[Flintlocke]

So you are a Croatian.

[The Lawspeaker]

i know my family line back to few hundred years..when we were Catholics too,,so sorry,but i am from Bosnia
Actually. The whites were in South Africa before the Bantu. The Zulu only arrived in the mid 19th century. Do you know when the Dutch arrived ?

And since you lot converted to Islam you are not Europeans but Muslims. "You went Turk" thus you are a Turk.

[Hurrem sultana]

Actually. The whites were in South Africa before the Bantu. The Zulu only arrived in the mid 19th century. Do you know when the Dutch arrived ?

And since you lot converted to Islam you are not Europeans but Muslims. "You went Turk" thus you are a Turk.

i went turk? no my ancestors went muslim(and i am glad)

[Hurrem sultana]

So you are a Croatian.

no my ancestors come from an other country,still european :D

maybe they were italian,or romanian,or whatever..now i am bosnian

[Hurrem sultana]

Pathetic logic from Batavi.He is the guy who opposes the immigration in his country yet at the same time he elaborates how to kick off people from their land.:rolleyes:

yep

i understand those who want their country free from foreigners,and they don't bother about other countries.i respect that,but this batavi is just a fascist

[The Lawspeaker]

i went turk? no my ancestors went muslim(and i am glad)
Your ancestors were the local version of the NSB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Movement_in_the_Netherlands): traitors and collaborators. So you shouldn't be proud of your ancestors at all - if you were a decent human being you would have cursed their legacy and spit on their graves because they let down and betrayed their own people. They sold their people for the sake of their own careers in the service of the Sultan against Christians and against their own. In my country, even after many many years, having had a grandfather that was in the NSB is something you keep quiet about. Very quiet.

But since you don't know the Dutch arrived in South Africa - let me inform you: 6 April 1652. More then 200 years before the Zulu's arrived and he found some tribes that were Khoikhoi. That's right.. and they are closely related to the San or Bushmen not to the Bantu.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Charles_Bell_-_Jan_van_Riebeeck_se_aankoms_aan_die_Kaap.jpg

Those people are Khoikhoi. Or as we called them: Hottentotten. Not Bantu's.

[AussieScott]

well again even if it happens,how will they do it? their power will not dominate like before.Obama would not agree for example ;)

China, USA and Australia's economies are linked intricately, if China falls into recession/depression it may give the South Africaaners a window of opportunity as Obama or who ever is in charge may have something more close to home to worry about, rather then South Africa...Still all hypothetical though.

[Hurrem sultana]

Your ancestors were the local version of the NSB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Movement_in_the_Netherlands): traitors and collaborators. So you shouldn't be proud of your ancestors at all - if you were a decent human being you would have cursed their legacy and spit on their graves because they let down and betrayed their own people. They sold their people for the sake of their own careers in the service of the Sultan against Christians and against their own. In my country, even after many many years, having had a grandfather that was in the NSB is something you keep quiet about. Very quiet.

But since you don't know the Dutch arrived in South Africa - let me inform you: 6 April 1652. More then 200 years before the Zulu's arrived and he found some tribes that were Khoikhoi. That's right.. and they are closely related to the San or Bushmen not to the Bantu.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Charles_Bell_-_Jan_van_Riebeeck_se_aankoms_aan_die_Kaap.jpg

Those people are Khoikhoi. Or as we called them: Hottentotten. Not Bantu's.

whatever,learn that people moved on from that sick view on humanity long time ago


i see no problems with all people living together(without mixing),but of course your sick mind does.most probably the only thing you do is sitting inside and reading all the fascist crap

[Minesweeper]

Those people are Khoi. Or as we called them: Hottentotten. Not Bantu's.

I always asked myself who are those Hottentottens but never actually checked.
I's because that Hottentottenmutterjoke about a longest word in German language.:)

Anyway, only solution for South Africa is modern and moderate Apartheid. Let;s face thew facts, it's obvious blacks are incapable of running a country like SA. Not a racist opinion, I'm truly and honestly unbiased.

[The Lawspeaker]

whatever,learn that people moved on from that sick view on humanity long time ago


i see no problems with all people living together(without mixing),but of course your sick mind does.most probably the only thing you do is sitting inside and reading all the fascist crap
Wow you're so cheap. :D Typical Turk.. but then again you're nothing but a troll so..


Right .. the thing is that the European world view is irrelevant in Africa. In Africa tribes don't co-exist. They kill each other off. And for the Bantu the White African is just another tribe that needs to be killed off. A nice example of that would be the new name of many places in South Africa they never lived in or never reached. Take for instance iKapa -- we know it as Cape Town or Kaapstad. It was never their area and still they claim it as such. I am sure that the plaasmoorde, the farm killings and the rapes of White South Africans by the Blacks and the gruesome murders all over the place are just a part of... peaceful coexistence.


Did you remind your own family of the peaceful coexistence with the Serbs during the war ? You hypocrite !

Let me show you peaceful coexistence in South Africa. Kill the Boer ! That's what the Bantu want.

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/25801_353593525888_280611220888_3701555_3094107_n. jpg

Look up farm killings, plaasmoorde. Look at the articles here in this South African subforum. And then dare come up with your pseudo-liberal, anti-white propaganda again.

[The Lawspeaker]

I always asked myself who are those Hottentottens but never actually checked.
I's because that Hottentottenmutterjoke about a longest word in German language.:)
In Dutch it's hottentottententententoonstellingsgebouw.:D



Anyway, only solution for South Africa is modern and moderate Apartheid. Let;s face thew facts, it's obvious blacks are incapable of running a country like SA. Not a racist opinion, I'm truly and honestly unbiased.
Well.. if they send the Bantu back into Africa they won't need Apartheid.

[Minesweeper]

In Dutch it's hottentottententententoonstellingsgebouw.:D


I didn't expect anything simpler.:D Btw, I like Dutch it sound lot like German with some English admixture, mostly in accent.


Well.. if they send the Bantu back into Africa they won't need Apartheid.

Bantus are not natives in SA, where did they came from?

[The Lawspeaker]

I didn't expect anything simpler.:D Btw, I like Dutch it sound lot like German with some English admixture, mostly in accent.



Bantus are not natives in SA, where did they came from?
Originally (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_expansion) Nigeria, Cameroon. Later on the Great Lakes as they trekked south.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Bantu_Phillipson.png

[Hurrem sultana]

civis,go where the sun doesn't shine..i wont lose my time discussing with you ;)

[The Lawspeaker]

civis,go where the sun doesn't shine..i wont lose my time discussing with you ;)
Bye. Off you go.

http://widebodyaircraft.nl/a300onur.jpg

[Rron]

yep

i understand those who want their country free from foreigners,and they don't bother about other countries.i respect that,but this batavi is just a fascist
Its not only fascist, but also sexual frustrated person.He could be a perfect example patient for Freud's examinations

[The Lawspeaker]

Its not only fascist, but also sexual frustrated person.He could be a perfect example patient for Freud's examinations
While it's always you goatfucker subhumans that turn up to derail threads.

[Minesweeper]

While it's always you goatfucker subhumans that turn up to derail threads.

They came down from mountains to urban areas, lack of goats I suppose.:D

[Pallantides]

Look what we built...

Mozambique
kiheHNbUpmA

Angola
hVtYlkMokJg
(notice the first ballade of the second video was written by black musicians, even many of them realise)

All lost :icon_sad:


You helped build those cities?
Amazing.

[Treffie]

Pathetic logic from Batavi.He is the guy who opposes the immigration in his country yet at the same time he elaborates how to kick off people from their land.:rolleyes:

I wholeheartedly agree. Smacks of hypocrisy.

Can you imagine saying to move all the Dutch out and replace them all with Germans?

[The Lawspeaker]

I wholeheartedly agree. Smacks of hypocrisy.

Can you imagine saying to move all the Dutch out and replace them all with Germans?
The Bantu are invaders. It's simply throwing out invaders.

[Libertas]

Good luck! I believe they should kick all the blacks out and ship them somewhere else.

Knowing European politicians, Europe would get the lot!:mad::eek::D

[Hurrem sultana]

The Bantu are invaders. It's simply throwing out invaders.

yeah and the white people are indigenous there


why am i even wasting my time:rolleyes2:

[Zephyr]

yeah and the white people are indigenous there


why am i even wasting my time:rolleyes2:

Well, you are right. And most of our immigration problems start with african natives charging us the bill for exploitation, it's their revenge.

But then again, the countries that stirred up revolutions in Southern Africa were the USA and the USSR, countries that built their empires in lands that didn't belong to them.

What legitimacy had Kennedy to tell Portugal that we should leave Angola and Mozambique?

[Peyrol]

Well, you are right. And most of our immigration problems start with african natives charging us the bill for exploitation, it's their revenge.

But then again, the countries that stirred up revolutions in Southern Africa were the USA and the USSR, countries that built their empires in lands that didn't belong to them.

What legitimacy had Kennedy to tell Portugal that we should leave Angola and Mozambique?

Same happened in 1936 during the conquest of Etiopia: all the british world was scandalized for the invasion....funny, said by peoples that in the same times ruled 1/4 of the planet.

[StonyArabia]

A new South Africa will never be a reality. Nor the people will accept a new forms of apartheid, nor the international community will stand for it. As well it's these thoughts that continue the cycle of hate and animosity rather than help situation.

[Hurrem sultana]

:D


http://topnews.in/files/nelson-mandela_0.jpg

[Peyrol]

:D


http://topnews.in/files/nelson-mandela_0.jpg

:laugh:

fcOXqFQw2hc

[Flintlocke]

^ Don't pay attention to bosnian's political posts. 1 she's a woman, 2 she don't know shit from shinola. :D

[Hurrem sultana]

^ Don't pay attention to bosnian's political posts. 1 she's a woman, 2 she don't know shit from shinola. :D

1.means i have a heart :p

[Flintlocke]

It wasn't meant in a derogatory manner, you've give me the idea of a girly girl, not an "Angela Merkel" type ;)

[Hurrem sultana]

It wasn't meant in a derogatory manner, you've give me the idea of a girly girl, not an "Angela Merkel" type ;)

well thanks God i am not an Angela Merkel type :D


we already know who that girl here is:cool::D

[Nairi]

Schoolbooks in SA teach black kids how evil are all Arikaners, young generations grow up with extreme hatred towards all whites.

[Turkophagos]

I suggest retreating. Dutch speakers to the Netherlands, english speakers to the UK. We need to reconstruct a new Europe from Vladivostok to Lisbon, which has plenty of land but not enough people.

[Nairi]

I suggest retreating. Dutch speakers to the Netherlands, english speakers to the UK. We need to reconstruct a new Europe from Vladivostok to Lisbon, which has plenty of land but not enough people.


And what about those who consider themselves proud Afrikaners speaking Afrikaans?

[Turkophagos]

And what about those who consider themselves proud Afrikaners speaking Afrikaans?

http://www.state.gov/img/09/34348/netherlands_map_2009worldfactbook_300_1.jpg

[Nairi]

http://www.state.gov/img/09/34348/netherlands_map_2009worldfactbook_300_1.jpg

How many Afrikaners do you have around you on daily bases? I am yet to see a Boer who considers he speaks Dutch instead of Afrikaans...

[Aces High]

you think they are backwards and stupid like they used to be before 100 years ago?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16553037

[RoyBatty]

1.means i have a heart :p

It means you like niggers

[The Lawspeaker]

http://www.state.gov/img/09/34348/netherlands_map_2009worldfactbook_300_1.jpg
And where shall we put them, eh ? Retreating is for losers anyway. And I am quite sure that the Afrikaners would not feel at home in the Netherlands and I can't blame them.

[Nairi]

And where shall we put them, eh ? Retreating is for losers anyway. And I am quite sure that the Afrikaners would not feel at home in the Netherlands and I can't blame them.

Since they are cruelly massacred many will be happy if they are helped to move to wonderful country like Netherlands. But none will be happy to lose their culture,language, integrating is an option but assimilating -no...
But also many Boers who own farm can't imagine their lives outsie of SA, especially life ina building...

[The Lawspeaker]

Since they are cruelly massacred many will be happy if they are helped to move to wonderful country like Netherlands. But none will be happy to lose their culture,language, integrating is an option but assimilating -no...
But also many Boers who own farm can't imagine their lives outsie of SA, especially life ina building...

The thing.. we don't have enough land. Even if we would kick out all the immigrants we wouldn't have enough. So maybe we should start working on the Markerwaard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markerwaard) and move the coastline further west so we can at least give them a temporal (cold) home until we can clear out the pig stag that is South African with a broad European/US coalition and then allow them to return home together with new Dutch settlers if they would choose so.

[Nairi]

The thing.. we don't have enough land. Even if we would kick out all the immigrants we wouldn't have enough. So maybe we should start working on the Markerwaard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markerwaard) and move the coastline further west so we can at least give them a temporal (cold) home until we can clear out the pig stag that is South African with a broad European/US coalition and then allow them to return home together with new Dutch settlers if they would choose so.

Send Armenians back to Armenia and make spaces for people who have Dutch heritage...;)

[The Lawspeaker]

Send Armenians back to Armenia and make spaces for people who have Dutch heritage...;)
What Armenians ? We only have some 3.000 to 9.000 of them. If we want to make space it will be the Turks, Moroccans, other Muslims, the poor Germans, the Indische Nederlanders (impossibility there) and the colonials that have to suffer.

"Starts calculating". If we would kick out every Muslim we would get rid of 1 million people. Kick out the Africans might bring us to 150.000 or so more. If we could start repatriating the Surinamese and give them some money to build up their country (and find Dutch volunteers to join them) we could get rid some 350.000 people.

Where the hell do we put five million Afrikaners ? Amsterdam would become a city of 3 million inhabitants.. the rest spread out over The Hague, Rotterdam, a new Markerwaard, Flevoland, any future new polders in the North Sea.

The Netherlands would have some 20 million inhabitants. I suggest the Flemish take in their share too.

[poiuytrewq0987]

The thing.. we don't have enough land. Even if we would kick out all the immigrants we wouldn't have enough. So maybe we should start working on the Markerwaard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markerwaard) and move the coastline further west so we can at least give them a temporal (cold) home until we can clear out the pig stag that is South African with a broad European/US coalition and then allow them to return home together with new Dutch settlers if they would choose so.

When you can't expand outwards... expand upwards. ;)

http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/128/cache/hong-kong-city_12846_600x450.jpg

and soon...

http://hplusmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/MarsColony-300x225.jpg

[The Lawspeaker]

When you can't expand outwards... expand upwards. ;)

http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/128/cache/hong-kong-city_12846_600x450.jpg

and soon...

http://hplusmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/MarsColony-300x225.jpg
Nuts. You seem to forget on what kind of soil we live. Soggy wet clay, my friend. You can't build very high on that. The tallest building at present is just 165 m (541.34 ft) high. We can't get much higher then that.


http://www.visionair.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/belle.jpg

Although there was a plan for a building (http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/netherlands-landmark-tower-plan-scrapped) of 260 m high but it was decided not to build it.

[Nairi]

What Armenians ? We only have some 3.000 to 9.000 of them. If we want to make space it will be the Turks, Moroccans, other Muslims, the poor Germans, the Indische Nederlanders (impossibility there) and the colonials that have to suffer.

"Starts calculating". If we would kick out every Muslim we would get rid of 1 million people. Kick out the Africans might bring us to 150.000 or so more.

Where the hell do we put five million Afrikaners ? Amsterdam would become a city of 3 million inhabitants.. the rest spread out over The Hague, Rotterdam, a new Markerwaard, Flevoland, any future new polders in the North Sea.

The Netherlands would have some 20 million inhabitants. I suggest the Flemish take in their share too.

Yes, I agree and anyway any country which takes Boers in will only benefit, they are amazing and contributing nation.Only Georgia up to now realised that and gives them lands for free in the hope they will buster their agriculture and they def will.

[The Lawspeaker]

Yes, I agree and anyway any country which takes Boers in will only benefit, they are amazing and contributing nation.Only Georgia up to now realised that and gives them lands for free in the hope they will buster their agriculture and they def will.

We would benefit if we would have some land for them.. the thing is: we don't. At least not yet. And creating new land costs at least 30/40 years.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Nuts. You seem to forget on what kind of soil we live. Soggy wet clay, my friend. You can't build very high on that. The tallest building at present is just 165 m (541.34 ft) high. We can't get much higher then that.

Well, maybe you should concentrate the construction of skyscrapers further away from the coast like Brabant or Limburg?

[The Lawspeaker]

Well, maybe you should concentrate the construction of skyscrapers further away from the coast like Brabant or Limburg?
Are you nuts ? :D There is no way in hell people over there would allow it. It would fuck up their quality of life, the local economy (tourism- because it fucks up the landscape). I think the only place where they would allow some 100-200m high buildings would be Eindhoven. Tilburg if you're lucky. But probably only Eindhoven. The bulk will always be situated in the West: Rotterdam, The Hague, Amsterdam, Utrecht - then Almere and Lelystad.

I know one thing: we can win some space in cities by putting all the motorways, major roads and railways in cities underground and use the space three or four times over.

[Fernando]

Africa without africans: tropical paradise, with diamonds and uranium.

Africa with africans: big favela full of scat.

Hit the nail right on the head.

But you forgot also, Africa without Negroes= Ancient Egypt and Ancient Berber civilizations of which Negroes had nothing to do with. What a coincidence.

[Loki]

It's not going to happen, Civis.

[The Lawspeaker]

It's not going to happen, Civis.
What do you suggest then ? Leaving them to rot ?

[Loki]

What do you suggest then ? Leaving them to rot ?

What are YOU suggesting? Ethnic cleansing of more than 80% of the country's inhabitants? I'm just trying to be realistic here.

There is great nostalgia for us Boers, and hopefully we will carve out a workable solution for ourselves. But a return to bantustans ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

My family were among the very first Dutch settlers in SA - they left Amsterdam in 1666.

[rhiannon]

:D


http://topnews.in/files/nelson-mandela_0.jpg

Agree:) I have always had deep appreciation for Mandela.

[rhiannon]

1.means i have a heart :p

You certainly do....and never let anyone harden it:)

Most men don't understand how women view things. Then, of the women who are atypical, and there are a few on this board, some of their views are so savage as to make many a man cringe.

I prefer to be more like you, Bosnian. :thumb001:

[Flintlocke]

What are YOU suggesting?...

Where "rights and democracy" stops, alternative solutions begin. There's many things that can be done, but the Boers should decide. I'm not gonna condemn any action that helps fellow whites survive, regardless of consequences in other groups. But then again, it's their decision, and I'm not in a position to suggest how others should run their communities.

[Flintlocke]

Agree:) I have always had deep appreciation for Mandela.

What's there to appreciate? Turning a beautiful country into a third world cesspit?

[Nairi]

I heard many people talking about Mandela as a hero and was also impressed until I found out this...



fcOXqFQw2hc

[rhiannon]

What's there to appreciate? Turning a beautiful country into a third world cesspit?
Apartheid was wrong. Mandela stood against that.

[Phil75231]

I certainly don't push aside the Apartheid legacy, but I don't think it explains all the crime either. In the US, our violent crime rates have actually continued dropping since the Great Recession started - the worst economic situation since the Great Depression. This tells me that, regardless of how serious Apartheid was, regardless of how deeply-lasting the effects are even to this day - rising incomes for the black population won't produce magical changes. There has to be a cultural change too (in the common day-to-day interactions since, not in the "cultural traditions of art, music, literature, etc).

Even so, the fact crime rates are higher in poorer neighborhoods, no matter where in the world they are, tells me there is an economic component to it. In this sense the "cultural marxists" are right. Some things in this world do have an economic component to it, and there's little if any way around it.

Equally likely is that it will take massive amounts of money to accomplish this, not to mention enough people getting sick and tired of being sick and tired of the political corruption, police corruption, and demanding more money be spent on improving education, police training and equipment, infrastructure improvements (both basic and telecommunication); not to mention a restructured tax system that is pro-entrepreneurial. (new businesses pay absolutely 0% of the current tax rate, with each additional year they pay 25% more of what they normally would in taxes). This should definitely create more jobs - both large and small. Not to mention go a long way to bringing more South Africans (of whatever race) into the middle class - especially if combined with tax incenties for new businesses (making it easier for people to start their businesses, encouraging a culture of entrepreneurship).

Also, shift more of the tax burden onto the wealthiest people and largest corporations. For private citizens have basic living expenses 100% tax free. (i.e if X= income for a minimally humans standard of living for a household and Y = any income beyond that, then tax only the Y part, and never the X part).

BUT, the mass of South Africans have to get sick and tired of being sick and tired of corrpution and other misuses of tax money and bureaucratic power, otherwise what I described will achieve limited results at best.

[Padre Organtino]

Yes, I agree and anyway any country which takes Boers in will only benefit, they are amazing and contributing nation.Only Georgia up to now realised that and gives them lands for free in the hope they will buster their agriculture and they def will.

Georgian initiative seems more like a PR campaign so far. Though Boers would certainly be very beneficial to Georgia given that it's agriculture is primitive and underdeveloped (compared to first world countries and not Africa of course).

[poiuytrewq0987]

I certainly don't push aside the Apartheid legacy, but I don't think it explains all the crime either. In the US, our violent crime rates have actually continued dropping since the Great Recession started - the worst economic situation since the Great Depression. This tells me that, regardless of how serious Apartheid was, regardless of how deeply-lasting the effects are even to this day - rising incomes for the black population won't produce magical changes. There has to be a cultural change too (in the common day-to-day interactions since, not in the "cultural traditions of art, music, literature, etc).

Even so, the fact crime rates are higher in poorer neighborhoods, no matter where in the world they are, tells me there is an economic component to it. In this sense the "cultural marxists" are right. Some things in this world do have an economic component to it, and there's little if any way around it.

Equally likely is that it will take massive amounts of money to accomplish this, not to mention enough people getting sick and tired of being sick and tired of the political corruption, police corruption, and demanding more money be spent on improving education, police training and equipment, infrastructure improvements (both basic and telecommunication); not to mention a restructured tax system that is pro-entrepreneurial. (new businesses pay absolutely 0% of the current tax rate, with each additional year they pay 25% more of what they normally would in taxes). This should definitely create more jobs - both large and small. Not to mention go a long way to bringing more South Africans (of whatever race) into the middle class - especially if combined with tax incenties for new businesses (making it easier for people to start their businesses, encouraging a culture of entrepreneurship).

Also, shift more of the tax burden onto the wealthiest people and largest corporations. For private citizens have basic living expenses 100% tax free. (i.e if X= income for a minimally humans standard of living for a household and Y = any income beyond that, then tax only the Y part, and never the X part).

BUT, the mass of South Africans have to get sick and tired of being sick and tired of corrpution and other misuses of tax money and bureaucratic power, otherwise what I described will achieve limited results at best.


The largest difference between American blacks and South African blacks is probably only education. The apartheid ended just recently, and there's still a lot of them poorly educated, don't have access to good schools or even nutritious meals 3 times a day. That can do a lot to mess up one's head. In the US, a large percentage of them get to go to school, eat good meals, etc and I think that is why the crime waves by them are not as bad compared to them in SA.

[RoyBatty]

Georgian initiative seems more like a PR campaign so far. Though Boers would certainly be very beneficial to Georgia given that it's agriculture is primitive and underdeveloped (compared to first world countries and not Africa of course).

This venture doesn't make sense to me, as you say, seems like a PR stunt.

[Phil75231]

The largest difference between American blacks and South African blacks is probably only education. The apartheid ended just recently, and there's still a lot of them poorly educated, don't have access to good schools or even nutritious meals 3 times a day. That can do a lot to mess up one's head. In the US, a large percentage of them get to go to school, eat good meals, etc and I think that is why the crime waves by them are not as bad compared to them in SA.

Still, there was the huge crime wave in the US during the late 80s and early 90s. Even by that time, the great majority of US Blacks did go to school, 3 meals a day and (barring the crime in urban working class neighborhoods) did have a minimally human standard of living overall. Yet crime increased - and the 80s and 90s were prosperous decades.

If the formula high education -> low crime were even as much as 5% untrue, then black crime rates here would have likewise decreased across all income spectrums. But that is precisely what we did not see. A lot of it has to do with the crack addiction "epidemic" of course, which happened in spite of rising AfrAm education attainment rates. So I still think there's a cultural component to all this.

[AussieScott]

Still, there was the huge crime wave in the US during the late 80s and early 90s. Even by that time, the great majority of US Blacks did go to school, 3 meals a day and (barring the crime in urban working class neighborhoods) did have a minimally human standard of living overall. Yet crime increased - and the 80s and 90s were prosperous decades.

If the formula high education -> low crime were even as much as 5% untrue, then black crime rates here would have likewise decreased across all income spectrums. But that is precisely what we did not see. A lot of it has to do with the crack addiction "epidemic" of course, which happened in spite of rising AfrAm education attainment rates. So I still think there's a cultural component to all this.

You live the white fella way or black fella way, not both. It's as simple as that in the end.

But that's racist...

[Hurrem sultana]

What are YOU suggesting? Ethnic cleansing of more than 80% of the country's inhabitants? I'm just trying to be realistic here.

There is great nostalgia for us Boers, and hopefully we will carve out a workable solution for ourselves. But a return to bantustans ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

My family were among the very first Dutch settlers in SA - they left Amsterdam in 1666.

:thumb001:

[Hurrem sultana]

You certainly do....and never let anyone harden it:)

Most men don't understand how women view things. Then, of the women who are atypical, and there are a few on this board, some of their views are so savage as to make many a man cringe.

I prefer to be more like you, Bosnian. :thumb001:

usually those atypical women tend to be worse than most men,what makes them to be that way..no idea.But a woman who is full of hate to me is not understandable,wonder what kind of mothers those women become

[Loki]

See my posts in this thread (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=664865#post664865).

[Loki]

Boers would fit well in Armenia - most of us share the same traditional Christian values. Modern Dutch are different ...

[poiuytrewq0987]

Boers would fit well in Armenia - most of us share the same traditional Christian values. Modern Dutch are different ...

We'd accept a million or two of you industrious folks in Macedonia. ;) :D

[Loki]

We'd accept a million or two of you industrious folks in Macedonia. ;) :D

Greeks wouldn't be impressed! :p :D

[Thunor]

I think the best idea for a new South Africa would be to just split the country into a white nation and a black one. All the East Indians and mulattoes and other minorities would have to go to the black country.


Apartheid was wrong. Mandela stood against that.
Exactly what was wrong about it?

Apartheid was, and still is, the best form of government ever to be thought up since it kept the savage blacks in line. And it worked. The country has been in shambles, ever since Mandela stepped up to the plate.

[Padre Organtino]

Black "nations" should delegate the ruling power to external forces. I believe that it is not hard to fine a solution that would in exchange of political control give Africans access to technologies and resources of Europeans. That would be like colonisation but without oppression, brutality and all those unnecessary things. In exchange for giving up some part of their sovereignity Blacks will get much higher standards of living. Of course such an arrangement should be in parallel with demilitarization and birth control programms.

[Flintlocke]

Apartheid was, and still is, the best form of government ever to be thought up since it kept the savage blacks in line. And it worked. The country has been in shambles, ever since Mandela stepped up to the plate.

I disagree, Apartheid was too mild. As you said, total geographical separation would be workable, but that mixing was wrong and it resulted in today's mess.

[Arsen_]

Maybe a little off-topic but an Armenian woman visited South Africa as a doctor and told about her travel in her blog (http://redchairradio.wordpress.com/2011/01/). Very interesting!

[rhiannon]

Exactly what was wrong about it?


Read the Questions about South Africa Thread and see what some of our SA members had to say. They saw and heard horrible things. :(

[Loki]

Maybe a little off-topic but an Armenian woman visited South Africa as a doctor and told about her travel in her blog (http://redchairradio.wordpress.com/2011/01/). Very interesting!

Interesting, thanks. And it's not off-topic. :)

[Peyrol]

This is South Africa how must be.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Transvaal_map.png

Transvaal. Oranje, Natalia for boers/afrikaners/whites and the rest for niggas.

[Nairi]

Maybe a little off-topic but an Armenian woman visited South Africa as a doctor and told about her travel in her blog (http://redchairradio.wordpress.com/2011/01/). Very interesting!

I can't believe she took her son with her.


After three days of hanging the mosquito net above the bed, trying to convince Shant that it was our adventure tent in the wild, he finally conceded to sleeping under it . We are lying in the dark, mother and son, cozy under the white mesh canopy made for one. We are confined in a small but breezy space, looking up at the narrowing veil.

Mama this is Africa?

That innocent imagination describes this place so much better that my wordy posts can. Here is Africa. Under a cloud. It’s confining no matter how far your eyes can see. You think you are protected but the force of Nature is overpowering. You are exposed as ever, placating only your real and irrational fears. It’s hot in here. And you can never sleep soundly because you are not free to move to get more comfortable. You graciously accept whatever rest comes your way.

http://redchairradio.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/africaindeed.jpg?w=640&h=425

[Nairi]

Boers would fit well in Armenia - most of us share the same traditional Christian values. Modern Dutch are different ...

Yes, culturally Armenians and Boers share a lot. But for now it is us invading your lands ;)

And this Armenian doctor and her son (Shant) fit there pretty well :D

http://redchairradio.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/shantsun.jpg?w=640

http://redchairradio.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/hashdevadz.jpg?w=640&h=425

with mummy
http://redchairradio.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/015.jpg?w=640&h=480

http://redchairradio.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/sayzulu.jpg?w=640

[Phil75231]

You live the white fella way or black fella way, not both. It's as simple as that in the end.

But that's racist...

It's not even a matter of "black" or "white" ways, for labeling a race to it can be interpreted as something inherent in people that keeps them acting that way. It's a matter of a proper way, regardless of the cultural attitudes of either group (and I don't think behaviors are racially linked).

[RoyBatty]

I think the best idea for a new South Africa would be to just split the country into a white nation and a black one. All the East Indians and mulattoes and other minorities would have to go to the black country.


... and the jews and whites who want to be there. I agree with your idea. It's what should have been done, unfortunately the previous govt were too eager to sell the whites out and it wasn't done.



Exactly what was wrong about it?


Forget the libbie luvvies. Mandela is a terrorist. They should have created a White region, mined the borders, abandoned the rest to the blekkies. That way nobody could complain about being "treated unfairly". Liberals to be expelled as well.




Apartheid was, and still is, the best form of government ever to be thought up since it kept the savage blacks in line. And it worked. The country has been in shambles, ever since Mandela stepped up to the plate.

It's the natural way of the world, the way things have always been until ZOG sank their claws into the Governments of Nation States and pushed Multikult via Industry, Commerce, Banks, Media and aggressive Imperialists such as the UK, France and USA.