Spiritual Warfare

[Bloodeagle]

After reading Psychonaut's post on Urban Living, I began to think of him in Hawaii and wondered how the spirits of the islands might react to his heathen rituals.
The world is a spiritual place and the European Heathen traditions are native to Europe. What happens if one relocates to a new land and then practice ones own religion.
Would the gods and goddesses of the new realm hold sway to the invader?
Is heathenry something that follows the individual or is there some sort of environmental turf?

I live in a historically non European environment with a spectacular beauty and similar climate to that our European ancestors experienced during the Last Glacial Maximum. The traditions of the natives go back just as far as our own. Culturally we are as opposite as can be!

What are your opinions on this?

[Baron Samedi]

It obviously did not deter the Norsemen who invaded Ireland.... Nor the Saxons when they invaded southern England.

[Tabiti]

So, in that logic you are also on enemy land, flooded by Native American energies, ghosts and gods.
Our ancenstors used to change their places of inhabitation in ancient times and seems their gods followed them. Maybe, it's just the population structure that matters and how many people believe in one thing, how many in other. For example, how many natives live in your area and still believe in their gods?

BTW, your words make sence, never thought about that.

[Psychonaut]

After reading Psychonaut's post on Urban Living, I began to think of him in Hawaii and wondered how the spirits of the islands might react to his heathen rituals.

No doubt, I've thought about this myself. There are still plenty of places on the island where you can see evidence of Hawaiian paganism. Although I don't particularly care for the locals, I do make a point of respecting their holy spots. I would not knowingly conduct a sacrifice on a spot that was sacred to the locals.

As to the land wights, some very interesting questions get raised. The Hawaiians have a long standing tradition regarding the Menehune (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menehune), beings that are short in stature, superb craftsmen, and live in the mountains. Does that sound familiar at all? ;)

It might be that the Menehune are the same entities that our ancestors described as Dvergar or Svartalfar. It could be that they're a divergent species of the same class of beings (just as we are to the Hawaiians) that are tied to both the blood and soil of the Hawaiian people. It's an interesting question to which I don't really have a good answer. I do a lot of hiking and I'm always hoping that I'll catch sight of one of them so I can have an informed opinion. :D

[Brynhild]

A thought provoking question, Bloodeagle! Australia is alive with Aboriginal folklore and equally alive with spirits of the land. I've been involved with rituals and blots where the spirits have been most prevalent. My kinfolk and I are aware of this and we make a point of firstly, asking permission from them to conduct our rites, thanking them afterwards and leave an offering of some sort.

I remember having a group meditation and an ancient Aboriginal elder came to me, laying his hand on my shoulder. He reassured me that all is well, and that my Heathen path isn't unlike their own - and there are similarities, including Mother Earth, Father Sky and the Rainbow Serpent.

However, where it would be taboo is on a known sacred site. You respect the spirits in this instance and leave them be.

[Bloodeagle]

I guess the spirit mirrors the life. Show respect and respect will be shown.

[Barreldriver]

The world is a spiritual place and the European Heathen traditions are native to Europe. What happens if one relocates to a new land and then practice ones own religion.
Would the gods and goddesses of the new realm hold sway to the invader?
Is heathenry something that follows the individual or is there some sort of environmental turf?



What are your opinions on this?

I personally believe this is reasonable given that I can feel native presences in my own land here in Ohio mostly in the woods and swamps, and back in Overton County Tennessee where I grew up, oddly my family is always drawn back to Overton County as if it is a family curse or something, especially considering that during the last migration phase the Reeder farmhouse burned down in an unexplained fire and my great uncle was killed in that fire. I also feel that the Amerindian spiritual forces are hostile towards me and my ways given some events that took place in Pittsburgh when I was attending college out there, also the emphasis on "realms" in many ancient faiths leads me to believe that there is a territorial and tribal element to these faiths, each set of spiritual forces is specific to a native people and land IMO.

[Lady L]

Is heathenry something that follows the individual


In a sense sure it does. But, I am thinking its more along the lines of us following it. Therefore, we can take it anywhere we may go. Its in the heart, the mind and the soul. :)

[Ulf]

Gods and spirits are not limited to certain landmasses, they travel with the blood and soul of their folk.

Also, I believe in the universality of earth-bound wights.

[Lyfing]

The Gods and Goddesses are my ancestors. They are with me everywhere I go and when I do things they live through me.

They are in my blood.

Wherever our blood has soaked the soil is sacred.

..;)

Later,
-Lyfing

[Barreldriver]

The Gods and Goddesses are my ancestors. They are with me everywhere I go and when I do things they live through me.

They are in my blood.

Wherever our blood has soaked the soil is sacred.

..;)

Later,
-Lyfing

Livingston Tennessee is one sacred place then lol, my kins blood is all over there. Good post though, definitely food for thought.

[Jägerstaffel]

Heathens say they honour nature; so colonials must theoretically honour a nature not their own.

They are too wrapped up in hating other cultures to respect the gods of the land.

Can you bring Thor to Africa? Should you?

Or are the gods really gods? Is a god limited to one area? What kind of a god is that? Is it even worth honouring? Are they gods of the WHOLE earth or do they have it sliced up like we humans do?

[Gooding]

Why not just respect all of Creation and apply whatever names to the natural forces therein that pleases you?LOL, in that case, there need be no war fought at all,spiritual or otherwise.We keep our ancestors in our genetic codes and we can respect and love the beauties of nature and see Thor in a lightning storm, or Frey making the earth green after the white cloak of Ullr covered the earth..

[Psychonaut]

Heathens say they honour nature; so colonials must theoretically honour a nature not their own.

Have we not made this land our own? Have our ancestors not fought, bled and died for this land for the last four centuries? Did our conquest over the natives not supplant their Gods' claim to the land and clear the way for ours?

Sorry for the rhetorical questions, but I felt like being a bit pompous. ;)

[Maelstrom]

"Our ancestors took this land. They took it and made it and held it. We do not give up what our ancestors gave us. They came across the sea and they fought here, and they built here and they're buried here. This is our land, mixed with our blood, strengthened with our bone. Ours!" Bernard Cornwell - 'The Last Kingdom'

We are our ancestors.

Our gods are the gods of our folk.

It's as simple as that.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

Originally Posted by bloodeagle View Post
Is heathery something that follows the individual

Not really,but hedonism does.

In South Africa I have become more and more conservative,even as an Atheist.
Before,I was a real philistine.
BUT
It appears that the European-especially the younger generation-are adopting the Hedonistic philosophy.
That is what mixing does.

[Jägerstaffel]

Have we not made this land our own? Have our ancestors not fought, bled and died for this land for the last four centuries? Did our conquest over the natives not supplant their Gods' claim to the land and clear the way for ours?

Sorry for the rhetorical questions, but I felt like being a bit pompous. ;)

Isn't it a bit pretentious to assume that?
Are the gods that concerned with humanity? Some of them have shown great flippancy and even a downright uncaring attitude towards humanity.

Are we the masters of gods? Do we tell them where their domain is? Do our gods follow us like forlorn puppies? Did conquering the natives also conquer their gods? How so?

And if some of you say, they are the gods of our BLOOD, do they even have a residing place in nature to begin with?

Playing devil's advocate.

[Lyfing]

The God/esses are in our BLOOD, and it is we who have created them inasmuch as nature herself has created us..!!

And, no, they ain't concerned with humanity. That's like saying "if there is a God then why does he let this happen to us good folk" That is the prey thinking. We are the poetic predators. They teach us to fish, not give us a free lunch..!!

And further, Odin is stalking me, and not because he cares,..he's out to teach me a harsh lesson..

Later,
-Lyfing

[Amarantine]

After reading Psychonaut's post on Urban Living, I began to think of him in Hawaii and wondered how the spirits of the islands might react to his heathen rituals.
The world is a spiritual place and the European Heathen traditions are native to Europe. What happens if one relocates to a new land and then practice ones own religion. Would the gods and goddesses of the new realm hold sway to the invader?Is heathenry something that follows the individual or is there some sort of environmental turf?

I live in a historically non European environment with a spectacular beauty and similar climate to that our European ancestors experienced during the Last Glacial Maximum. The traditions of the natives go back just as far as our own. Culturally we are as opposite as can be!

What are your opinions on this?

Well nothing speciall will happened. There are no Northern or Southern Gods and Goddess, just the energy flow, and we as humans have the needs to name speciall energy types. Our perception of "our" Gods goes with us, so the "terrain" in which we live is not so important as our concious and underconcious. But again you will always find special place for example meditation or needed energy source even in foreign countries. Even you could easilly find herbs which are not the same but with the same influences. Your Gods are "within" you, all the time, becouse they are you. (I am not sure am I clear enough...)

[John in Denver]

After reading Psychonaut's post on Urban Living, I began to think of him in Hawaii and wondered how the spirits of the islands might react to his heathen rituals.
The world is a spiritual place and the European Heathen traditions are native to Europe. What happens if one relocates to a new land and then practice ones own religion.
Would the gods and goddesses of the new realm hold sway to the invader?
Is heathenry something that follows the individual or is there some sort of environmental turf?

I live in a historically non European environment with a spectacular beauty and similar climate to that our European ancestors experienced during the Last Glacial Maximum. The traditions of the natives go back just as far as our own. Culturally we are as opposite as can be!

What are your opinions on this?

I haven't studied ancient religions much but touched on the basics of Vril science, The Roman State Religion and Asatru.

I believe religion plays an important part in a nation and it always did. I believe any legitimate religion is blood-based and the Gods are always within us waiting to be brought to life. It is then up to us as individuals to find them and give them life, and by the Gods i mean the forces of life that reside in our blood or DNA. Honesty, paralleled with freedom of expression that makes their birth possible.

I also believe that in order for a religion to truly come to life it must meet the laws of nature which has a dual code and applies both to the spirit and the physical body. The laws of expansion would be an example, the expansion of what lies within must be met with a balance from without that meets rules of time all which are paralleled, (i.e.) a certain amount of births in a certain time frame not too many and not too few, this would also be known as fertility laws, paralleled with the expansion of particular mind-set.

The expansion of the mind-spirit of a particular group must be completed in a collective sense, there is little or no religion on a individual basis, at best it will bring good character of the individual but expansion of the mind-spirit or soul will not come to fruition. A higher culture will not be born until a collective spiritual state is established.

Basically i believe religion begets culture and religion must be blood based so ideas can evolve into something higher. The problem with non-blood based religions is putting economics, power, and control, over the expansion of the mind-spirit, while blood-based religions eventually brings power and control, legitimately...it is a natural path and more difficult for the impatient and hasty.

__________________

If i can answer your first question, i believe the Gods are within us unless they are somehow trapped,voluntarily stayed or somehow made a visit for a renewal.

I'm guessing that the spirit in nature is separate from the spirits of the blood, yet both need to be bonded.That's all, i guess i need to develop my ideas better, everything i posted came from within me and i haven't put any true effort into developing my perspective.

[Baron Samedi]

Cut off the head of a horse, stain the pole with runic curses....

Fuck the indegenous.... We are the conquerers.

:Thurisaz:

[Germanicus]

Spiritual Warfare on the Island of Hawaii.


A statue of James Cook stands in Waimea, Kauai commemorating his first contact with the Hawaiian Islands at the town's harbour on January 1778On his last voyage, Cook once again commanded HMS Resolution, while Captain Charles Clerke commanded HMS Discovery. Ostensibly the voyage was planned to return Omai to Tahiti; this is what the general public believed, as he had become a favourite curiosity in London. Principally the purpose of the voyage was an attempt to discover the famed Northwest Passage. After returning Omai, Cook travelled north and in 1778 became the first European to visit the Hawaiian Islands. In passing and after initial landfall in January 1778 at Waimea harbour, Kauai, Cook named the archipelago the "Sandwich Islands" after the fourth Earl of Sandwich, the acting First Lord of the Admiralty.

From the South Pacific, he went northeast to explore the west coast of North America north of the Spanish settlements in Alta California. He made landfall at approximately 44°30′ north latitude, near Cape Foulweather on the Oregon coast, which he named. Bad weather forced his ships south to about 43° north before they could begin their exploration of the coast northward.[20] He unknowingly sailed past the Strait of Juan de Fuca, and soon after entered Nootka Sound on Vancouver Island. He anchored near the First Nations village of Yuquot. Cook's two ships spent about a month in Nootka Sound, from March 29 to April 26, 1778, in what Cook called Ship Cove, now Resolution Cove,[21] at the south end of Bligh Island, about 5 miles (8.0 km) east across Nootka Sound from Yuquot, a Nuu-chah-nulth village whose chief who Cook did not identify but may have been Maquinna. Relations between Cook's crew of the people of Yuquot were cordial if sometimes strained. In trading, the people of Yuquot demanded much more valuable items than the usual trinkets that had worked for Cook's crew in Hawaii. Metal objects were much desired, but the lead, pewter, and tin traded at first soon fell into disrepute. The most valuable items the British received in trade were sea otter pelts. Over the month long stay the Yuquot "hosts" essentially controlled the trade with the British vessels, instead of vice versa. Generally the natives visited the British vessles at Resolution Cove instead of the British visiting the village of Yuquot at Friendly Cove.[22]

After leaving Nootka Sound, Cook explored and mapped the coast all the way to the Bering Strait, on the way identifying what came to be known as Cook Inlet in Alaska. It has been said that, in a single visit, Cook charted the majority of the North American northwest coastline on world maps for the first time, determined the extent of Alaska and closed the gaps in Russian (from the West) and Spanish (from the South) exploratory probes of the Northern limits of the Pacific.[8]

The Bering Strait proved to be impassable, although he made several attempts to sail through it. He became increasingly frustrated on this voyage, and perhaps began to suffer from a stomach ailment; it has been speculated that this led to irrational behaviour towards his crew, such as forcing them to eat walrus meat, which they found inedible.[23]

Cook returned to Hawaiʻi in 1779. After sailing around the archipelago for some eight weeks, he made landfall at Kealakekua Bay, on 'Hawaiʻi Island', largest island in the Hawaiian Archipelago. Cook's arrival coincided with the Makahiki, a Hawaiian harvest festival of worship for the Polynesian god Lono. Indeed the form of Cook's ship, HMS Resolution, or more particularly the mast formation, sails and rigging, resembled certain significant artifacts that formed part of the season of worship.[2][23] Similarly, Cook's clockwise route around the island of Hawai'i before making landfall resembled the processions that took place in a clockwise direction around the island during the Lono festivals. It has been argued (most extensively by Marshall Sahlins) that such coincidences were the reasons for Cook's (and to a limited extent, his crew's) initial deification by some Hawaiians who treated Cook as an incarnation of Lono.[24] Though this view was first suggested by members of Cook's expedition, the idea that any Hawaiians understood Cook to be Lono, and the evidence presented in support of it was challenged in 1992.[23]


Waimea on the island of Kauai, as seen from the ocean. Waimea was Cook's first landing point in Hawaiʻi in 1778.After a month's stay, Cook got under sail again to resume his exploration of the Northern Pacific. However, shortly after leaving Hawaiʻi Island, the foremast of the Resolution broke and the ships returned to Kealakekua Bay for repairs. It has been hypothesised that the return to the islands by Cook's expedition was not just unexpected by the Hawaiians, but also unwelcome because the season of Lono had recently ended (presuming that they associated Cook with Lono and Makahiki). In any case, tensions rose and a number of quarrels broke out between the Europeans and Hawaiians. On 14 February at Kealakekua Bay, some Hawaiians took one of Cook's small boats. Normally, as thefts were quite common in Tahiti and the other islands, Cook would have taken hostages until the stolen articles were returned.[2] Indeed, he attempted to take hostage the King of Hawaiʻi, Kalaniʻōpuʻu. The Hawaiians prevented this, and Cook's men had to retreat to the beach. As Cook turned his back to help launch the boats, he was struck on the head by the villagers and then stabbed to death as he fell on his face in the surf.[25] The Hawaiians dragged his body away. Four of the Marines with Cook were also killed and two wounded in the confrontation.


The Death of Cook painted by John Cleveley in 1784Some scholars suggest that Cook's return to Hawaiʻi outside the season of worship for Lono, which was synonymous with 'peace', and thus in the season of 'war' (being dedicated to Kū, god of war) may have upset the equilibrium and fostered an atmosphere of resentment and aggression from the local population. Coupled with a jaded grasp of native diplomacy and a burgeoning but limited understanding of local politics, Cook may have inadvertently contributed to the tensions that ultimately brought about his demise.

The esteem in which he was nevertheless held by the Hawaiians resulted in his body being retained by their chiefs and elders. Following the practice of the time, Cook's body underwent funerary rituals similar to those reserved for the chiefs and highest elders of the society. The body was disembowelled, baked to facilitate removal of the flesh, and the bones were carefully cleaned for preservation as religious icons in a fashion somewhat reminiscent of the treatment of European saints in the Middle Ages. Some of Cook's remains, disclosing some corroborating evidence to this effect, were eventually returned to the British for a formal burial at sea following an appeal by the crew.[26]

Clerke took over the expedition and made a final attempt to pass through the Bering Strait. Following the death of Clerke, Resolution and Discovery returned home in October 1780 commanded by John Gore, a veteran of Cook's first voyage, and Captain James King. Cook's account of his third and final voyage was completed upon their return by King.


From my reading of "into the Blue going where no man has gone before"


My own reading of Cooks third voyage enables me to tell you how they recognised captain Cooks body parts from others when they were returned, it is widely known that Captain Cook was 6ft 5ins, his leg bones were recognised because of length, his right hand was found, this was because Cook had an accidental discharge of a pistol resulting in powder burns to it.
Other parts were thought to be of Cook, but they obviously were scattered across the islands most holy places, the most sacred of Cooks body which was never found was his jaw bone, which was revered as the most importantly sacred part as he was thought to be the incarnation of Lono.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Ulf
Also, I believe in the universality of earth-bound wights.

An interesting point, I think one can distinguish between human based gods and natural phenomenon deified.

The later would have no tie to any particular people but they are manifested in a cultural sense, hence Ing-Freyr would be the cultural manifestation of the earth god from the Germanic perspective.

By contrast a deity like Odin would be idiosyncratic, one that is a Folk deity specific to the Germanic people’s.

[AussieScott]

A thought provoking question, Bloodeagle! Australia is alive with Aboriginal folklore and equally alive with spirits of the land. I've been involved with rituals and blots where the spirits have been most prevalent. My kinfolk and I are aware of this and we make a point of firstly, asking permission from them to conduct our rites, thanking them afterwards and leave an offering of some sort.

I remember having a group meditation and an ancient Aboriginal elder came to me, laying his hand on my shoulder. He reassured me that all is well, and that my Heathen path isn't unlike their own - and there are similarities, including Mother Earth, Father Sky and the Rainbow Serpent.

However, where it would be taboo is on a known sacred site. You respect the spirits in this instance and leave them be.


That sounds cool. Ever had a white fella initiation into a mob? I haven't, never spent enough time on a community, the old man has though into a couple, he grew up on a community too. There are quite a few similarities, between Jeudo Christianity, paganism and the Aboriginal dream time lore.

[Argyll]

It obviously did not deter the Norsemen who invaded Ireland.... Nor the Saxons when they invaded southern England.

There are absolutely no Norse gods or culture in Ireland and only in the Northern Isles in Scotland.

[Baron Samedi]

There are absolutely no Norse gods or culture in Ireland and only in the Northern Isles in Scotland.

Considering Dublin was Viking-occupied at one point...

[heathen_son]

"There are absolutely no Norse gods or culture in Ireland..."

How do you think some Irishman ended up with surnames like MacManus then?

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/gif/ire900.gif

[Argyll]

They are settlements, do you see any Norse culture there?

[heathen_son]

http://www.museum.ie/en/exhibition/list/exhibition-details-vikingireland.aspx

[Argyll]

You keep showing historical artefacts and events but not actual culture.

[heathen_son]

I somewhat doubt that the Norse had absolutely no cultural impact on Ireland whatsoever. Obviously the Norse were assimilated, but there must have been some sort of exchange.

I'll admit it's not my area of knowledge. You'd need some Irish types to comment :D

[Argyll]

I somewhat doubt that the Norse had absolutely no cultural impact on Ireland whatsoever. Obviously the Norse were assimilated, but there must have been some sort of exchange.

I'll admit it's not my area of knowledge. You'd need some Irish types to comment :D

I have asked and talked some Irish folks before. They did, however, say that there Norse place names, but they usually have a Gaelic name as well. Also, that battle that King Brian Boru effectively halted any Norse influence. I'm not sure if it happened in Ireland, but in mainland Scotland and the Hebrides, Gaelisization occured which consumed the Pictish language.

[heathen_son]

Some words the Norse introduced to Ireland and are still used:

brea = fine, good
ancaire = anchor
bad = boat
margad = market
pingin = penny
scilling = shilling

Source:

http://viking.no/e/info-sheets/ireland/firehous.htm

[Atridr]

After reading Psychonaut's post on Urban Living, I began to think of him in Hawaii and wondered how the spirits of the islands might react to his heathen rituals.
The world is a spiritual place and the European Heathen traditions are native to Europe. What happens if one relocates to a new land and then practice ones own religion.
Would the gods and goddesses of the new realm hold sway to the invader?
Is heathenry something that follows the individual or is there some sort of environmental turf?

I live in a historically non European environment with a spectacular beauty and similar climate to that our European ancestors experienced during the Last Glacial Maximum. The traditions of the natives go back just as far as our own. Culturally we are as opposite as can be!

What are your opinions on this?

I think that really spiritual entities and forces (In essence, powers and beings that are beyond cosmic existence) manifest themselves in the world of forms as they will, regardless of any local astral phenomenon. Likewise, any real magic one can do will most likely be unaffected by lesser spiritual/psychic forms, like local astral entities and such. Lesser magic, or what humans usually term practical magic or sorcery, the kind of which manipulates astral or mental plane or some other semi-illusory level of reality is very likely affected by local astral phenomenon as it inevitably connects to that atmosphere by it's very nature.