Who were the Ancient Egyptians?

[Lenny]

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/6155/44217352composite416x28.jpg


The debate over Tut's race led the Franklin Institute Science Museum in Philadelphia, where the show is on display, to sponsor a conference on the subject.

"Our best guess is that he was neither lily white nor ebony black. He was probably somewhere in between," said Nina Jablonski, author of Skin: A Natural History.

"When we look at the representation of the Egyptian royalty on the walls of tombs, we see a range of sort of moderate, tan-colored skin on the royalty," Jablonski said. "This probably is a fairly close approximation of what skin color these people actually had."

Jablonski says Tut's skin probably looked like a mixture of those people, only lighter, because the Boy King would have spent most of his time inside, protected from the sun. The speakers at the Franklin Institute rejected that hypothesis. In fact, they seemed to enjoy making fun of it.

"Okay, now let's look what this really is about. This is shocking. See if you recognize the person on the right," said activist Maulana Karenga, who remain best known as the founder of Kwanzaa. He got a big laugh by comparing the reconstructed image of King Tut with a picture of a young Barbara Streisand.

The panelists believe the Egyptians of Tut's time had, for the most part, very dark skin, like people from sub-Saharan Africa. source (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=13992421)

What racial type would you guess Tut to have been?
Do the Afrocentrists have any basis to allege that he is mulatto?
Did the decline of Egyptian Civilization start long before Tuthankhamen was born? If so -- pardon me for saying this -- I would have an easier time believing Negroid admixture in the royal line by that point.
What percentage of today's Egyptians would you guess have noticeable Negroid blood? Like this man (http://images.google.com/images?q=Anwar al Sadat)

[Guapo]

http://pic.srv104.wapedia.mobi/thumb/d73b14514/en/fixed/230/246/Dej_Balcha_Aba_Nefso.jpg?format=jpg,png,gif

So called Hamitic race,sub-group of Causasian race, descended from the biblical Ham.Italian race theorist Giuseppe Sergi, in his book The Mediterranean Race, argued that there was a distinct Hamitic racial group which could be divided into two sub-groups: The northern and eastern Hamites.

[Lenny]

http://pic.srv104.wapedia.mobi/thumb/d73b14514/en/fixed/230/246/Dej_Balcha_Aba_Nefso.jpg?format=jpg,png,gif

So called Hamitic race,sub-group of Causasian race, descended from the biblical Ham.Italian race theorist Giuseppe Sergi, in his book The Mediterranean Race, argued that there was a distinct Hamitic racial group which could be divided into two sub-groups: The northern and eastern Hamites.
Who is that picture?

Is your/Mr.Sergi's use of the the term "Hamitic" the same as this one (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss1.htm#AETHIOPID)?

[Guapo]

Who is that picture?

Is your/Mr.Sergi's use of the the term "Hamitic" the same as this one (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss1.htm#AETHIOPID)?

An Oromo Ethiopian.No, part of the caucasoid race and considered to be superior to 'negroids'.

[Stefan]

He looks like a quadroon to me.

[Electronic God-Man]

What racial type would you guess Tut to have been?

Northeast African Mediterranean, go figure.


Do the Afrocentrists have any basis to allege that he is mulatto?

I think they are trying to say that the ancient Egyptians were much like today's Sub-Saharan Africans. In my opinion, the Egyptians were/are Africans. But comparing an Egyptian to a Sub-Saharan is a lot like comparing a blonde Icelander to a swarthy Sicilian. Moreover, the Egyptians themselves clearly saw themselves as being of a different stock than the Africans to the South. There is one lovely painting from ancient Egypt which basically shows a line-up of the races that they knew. There is a Semite, a Nubian, a European of some sort I believe, and then an Egyptian. The depiction shows the differences in phenotype. Also, I have been to the Philly exhibit and saw a pair of sandals worn by the Pharaoh. On the bottom of the sandals is a depiction of a Semite and a black-skinned African. The idea was that he was always crushing his enemies. The Near Eastern tribes and the Africans to the south were the enemies of Egypt and they did not get along too often from what I understand.


Did the decline of Egyptian Civilization start long before Tuthankhamen was born? If so -- pardon me for saying this -- I would have an easier time believing Negroid admixture in the royal line by that point.

I'm not sure, but I think I do remember reading about "the black pharaohs" of Egypt that ruled near the end of Egypt's power. These pharaohs were from Nubia, I think.

[lei.talk]

http://www.white-history.com/egg3_files/foriengers.jpg (http://www.white-history.com/egg3.htm)
http://www.white-history.com/hwr8_files/tutshoes.jpeg (http://www.white-history.com/hwr8b.htm)

[Lenny]

But, about 3400 B.C. Egypt civilization began to spread up the
Nile River, bringing it in close contact with the black Nubians to the
south. Soon they were using Blacks for slave labor and Egypt became
history's first melting pot.

In time the infusion of Negro blood worked itself up from the
bottom of Egyptian society. The slaves were eventually freed, received
political equality, and took posts of authority in government.

By the time of King Tut (1370-1352 B.C.) even the ruling classes
had been mongrelized and Egypt had begun a tailspin downward.

http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/white/100lies.txt

[Lenny]

Northeast African Mediterranean, go figure.Is that a racial type?


Surely someone must have done a genetic test on the corpse at some point?

[Electronic God-Man]

Is that a racial type?

If you had to lay down your cards and guess on the Negrid Blood Question, which is it-- Yes or No?

Hasn't anyone ever done a genetic test on the corpse?

No. Mediterranid is though. But he's a Med from Northeastern Africa is all I was saying. These "racial classifications" are rather awkward in that way. A Med from Greece is going to look slightly different than one from Italy versus one from Spain versus one from Libya...

Do I think he has any Sub-Saharan blood? Yes, he probably does, but that's not really what matters. My point would be to say that the Egyptian population looked the way that they depicted themselves. Not European, not SS African, not Arab. And not some hybrid population caused by rampant miscegenation of all three. They were natives of Egypt and that's how they looked. It wasn't an "Aryan" population that was "negrified" (as Nordicists would say) nor a Black African population that was Arabized (as Afro-centrists would say).

[lei.talk]

But, about 3400 B.C. Egypt civilization began to spread up the
Nile River, bringing it in close contact with the black Nubians to the
south. Soon they were using Blacks for slave labor and Egypt became
history's first melting pot.

In time the infusion of Negro blood worked itself up from the
bottom of Egyptian society. The slaves were eventually freed, received
political equality, and took posts of authority in government.

By the time of King Tut (1370-1352 B.C.) even the ruling classes
had been mongrelized and Egypt had begun a tailspin downward.

http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/white/100lies.txt
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/icons/icon4.gif "Coming soon (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=40694#post40694), to a neighborhood near you!" http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/icons/icon4.gif

[Lenny]

he has any Sub-Saharan blood? Yes, he probably does, but that's not really what matters.This question is significant because it would be proof that Ancient Egypt's decline had a racial basis. Or at least it would show correlation.

Old Kingdoms: Built pyramids; created a civilization from nothing.
Later Kingdoms: Built nothing, dawdled away their time engaging in pointless wars, and managed decline until the end of Egyptian significance in global affairs. (They have never recovered).

Old Kingdoms: Fully-Caucasoid population(?)
Later Kingdoms: Even the aristocracy and kings were of mixed-blood?(!)


Coincidence?

[Electronic God-Man]

Old Kingdoms: Fully-Caucasoid population(?)
Later Kingdoms: Even the aristocracy and kings were of mixed-blood?(!)


Coincidence?

I'd bet that the Egyptian population of the Later Kingdom was much the same as the Old Kingdom.

Just how many Sub-Saharan Africans do you think Egypt imported?

[Lenny]

I'd bet that the Egyptian population of the Later Kingdom was much the same as the Old Kingdom.So in your view, racial changes -- esp. in the dynamic/ruling classes -- had nothing whatsoever to do with Egypt's pathetic decline? :mmmm:

Egypt's rise was an accident, Egypt's decline into patheticness and its production of nothing these past 3,500 years have been an accident and without underlying racial causes, as their racial stock never changed? :icon_ask:

[Lenny]

Egypt is vitally important to anyone who really wants to understand the workings of history. This is a country whose saga is so long and so varied that it provides, in effect, an excellent laboratory for the science of history. Any general theory of history that holds true for 5,000 or more years of Egypt’s existence must hold true for the world at large.
...
The average Egyptian of today, or even most members of the higher classes of that country, is partly Negroid, but the great pharaohs of olden times were clearly white.[1] Could this explain why Egypt was great in ancient times but is a fourth-rate nation today?

Exactly what is actually known about the race or races of the ancient Egyptians? Most Egyptologists would argue that the ancient Egyptians were an ethnic group of the Caucasian race. ...

Blacks have been present in Egypt from very early times, if not from the beginning. It has even been suggested by some scholars that Egyptian civilization only arose because there were both whites and blacks present, the whites to provide the ruling class and the blacks to provide the slaves, without whom the rulers would not have had the leisure time necessary to create a civilization. Therefore it is only to be expected that blacks have been depicted in ancient Egyptian art. But this certainly does not in itself prove that Negroes were preponderant in Egypt. Afrocentrists point to various busts showing Negro types in Egypt, but a curious thing about these busts is that they nearly all date from a late period, the 25th dynasty (730 B.C.-633 B.C.), a degenerate era, when Egypt had a Negroid pharaoh, Tahara, on the throne.

The hot, dry sands of Egypt have preserved through more than 60 centuries the remains of countless multitudes of the earliest people known to have dwelt in the Nile Valley; and not the bones only, but also their skin and hair plus the muscles and organs of the body. Even such delicate tissues as the nerves and the brain and the lens of the eye are available for examination today. We are able to form a very precise idea of the structure of the body of the Proto-Egyptians (first Egyptians). For example the hair in almost all cases presented no resemblance whatever to the “woolly” appearance of Negro hair.

Of the remains exhumed of these first Egyptians, according to Earnest Sevier Cox, “not more than 2 percent showed definitely a Negro admixture, and possibly an additional 2 percent showed a suspicion of Negro blood.”

From the 18th dynasty (1580-1350 B.C.) to the 25th (663-525 B.C.) is a period of six centuries. They mark the decay of Egyptian civilization. During this period Egyptian initiative and ingenuity slowly declined. When a mulatto was received as king, religion had fallen from an ethical test for the life hereafter to a cult of animal worship. The early pharaohs built the pyramids and temples which stand today. The later pharaohs built nothing of significance; instead, they cut out the names of the early kings and inserted their names upon some of the greatest architectural achievements of the world. Art, science, and literature were dead.

Egyptian contact with the Negro peoples to the south, beginning in prehistoric times, had been continuous. It is known that Negroes constituted a small percentage of the population prior to the dynastic age, and also that there were some mixed breeds even at this remote date. But this Negroid monarchy was the result of intermixture with a ruling class that was originally white. This miscegenation finally resulted in the extinction of Egyptian culture.

Excertped from the Barnes Review (http://www.barnesreview.org/html/egyptians.html) (one of the best publications on Earth, IMO).

[Lenny]

The early pharaohs built the pyramids and temples which stand today. The later pharaohs built nothing of significance; instead, they cut out the names of the early kings and inserted their names upon some of the greatest architectural achievements of the world. Art, science, and literature were dead.
LOL; doesn't that sound exactly like something a black guy would do? :D

[Guapo]

Hamitic pastoral Caucasians introduced most of the advanced features found in central African cultures, including metal working, irrigation and social structures.

[Tabiti]

African Med + Orientalid influences I guess?
And I think lips can't be fully reconstructed, so they could be not so negroid looking in fact.

[Sol Invictus]

Paul Schemm
Associated Press
Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:27 ES

Cairo - Egypt will soon reveal the results of DNA tests made on the world's most famous ancient king, the young Pharaoh Tutankhamun, to answer lingering mysteries over his lineage, the antiquities department said Sunday.

Speaking at a conference, archaeology chief Zahi Hawass said he would announce the results of the DNA tests and the CAT scans on Feb. 17. The results will be compared to those made of King Amenhotep III, who may have been Tutankamun's grandfather.

The effort is part of a wider program to check the DNA of hundreds of mummies to determine their identities and family relations. The program could help determine Tutankhamun's family lineage, which has long been a source of mystery.

Read More Here (http://www.sott.net/articles/show/202217-Egypt-to-soon-announce-King-Tut-DNA-test-results)

[Óttar]

They should have an internationally televised event showing just how not black the Egyptians were. Tut had an image of two Jewish captives tied to a post and the same of two black Nubians tied up in his tomb.

Afrocentrists piss me off.

[Allenson]

I caught wind of this earlier in the day......looking forward to the results.

Interesting quote from the article:


Hawass has long rejected DNA testing on Egyptian mummies by foreign experts, and only recently allowed such projects on condition they be done exclusively by Egyptians. A $5 million DNA lab was created at the Egyptian Museum, with funding from the Discovery Channel.

Ancient DNA is difficult to work with. Scientists have had the most luck with the maternal mtDNA. Apparently the paternal Y-chom. degrades much more quickly than the mtDNA. Although, I wonder if the mummification process will aid in overall preservation? :icon1:

I'll guess he was either in the T or K mtDNA families...

[Óttar]

Hawass has long rejected DNA testing on Egyptian mummies by foreign experts, and only recently allowed such projects on condition they be done exclusively by Egyptians.Arabs aren't Egyptians, only the Copts have a right to be called Egyptians.

[Guapo]

After they invaded Egypt in 640 A.D., the Arabs called the indigenous population of the country Gypt. Up until that time, the indigenous Egyptians referred to themselves as Remenkimi.Of course there are Muslim Copts as well nowadays.This one is orthodox christian:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Meriam_George_at_Miss_Earth_2006-12-02.jpg
http://www.egypty.com/images/top4/Meriam_george.jpg

[SwordoftheVistula]

Hawass has long rejected DNA testing on Egyptian mummies by foreign experts, and only recently allowed such projects on condition they be done exclusively by Egyptians. A $5 million DNA lab was created at the Egyptian Museum, with funding from the Discovery Channel.

Sounds like the Discovery Channel may have gotten...gypped

[Sol Invictus]

2010 02 17 | By Paul Schemm | MetroNews.ca

Egypt's most famous pharaoh, King Tutankhamun, was a frail boy who suffered from a cleft palate and club foot. He died of complications from a broken leg exacerbated by malaria and his parents were most likely brother and sister.

Two years of DNA testing and CT scans on Tut's 3,300-year-old mummy and 15 others are helping end many of the myths surrounding the boy king. While a comparatively minor ruler, he has captivated the public since the 1922 discovery of his tomb, which was filled with a stunning array of jewels and artifacts, including a golden funeral mask.

The study, which will be published Wednesday in the Journal of the American Medical Association, provides the firmest family tree yet for Tut. The tests pointed to Pharaoh Akhenaten, who tried to revolutionize ancient Egyptian religion to worship one god, as Tut's father. His mother was one of Akhenaten's sisters, it said.

Tut, who became pharaoh at age 10 in 1333 B.C., ruled for just nine years at a pivotal time in Egypt's history. Speculation has long swirled over his death at 19. A hole in his skull fueled speculation he was murdered, until a 2005 CT scan ruled that out, finding the hole was likely from the mummification process. The scan also uncovered the broken leg.

The newest tests paint a picture of a pharaoh whose immune system was likely weakened by congenital diseases. His death came from complications from the broken leg - along with a new discovery: severe malaria.

Read More Here (http://www.metronews.ca/edmonton/world/article/453528--dna-studies-reveal-a-frail-king-tut-who-died-at-19-from-a-broken-leg-complicated-by-malaria?pageno=all)

[poiuytrewq0987]

I've found an interesting looking Egyptian perhaps worthy of some discussion. I looked up her profile it said her father is Egyptian but no mention of her mother. What do you think she is? One of the few remaining Hellenes in Egypt or is she a Coptic Egyptian?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Ehsan_Hatem_headshot.jpg

https://desifly.com/files/pictures/2009/03/miss_egypt_2007_full.jpg

Edit. I added more pictures of her to help give us a better idea of how she looks like.

http://www.fanoos.com/ia/ehsan_hatem_miss_egypt_2007.jpg

http://arabwomen.4arabs.com/albums/upload/Ehsan_Hatem/3.jpg

http://www.seattlepi.com/dayart/20070507/450UNI07_0540.jpg

http://www.epochtimes.com.ua/rus/images/stories/01/fashion/va042513.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehsan_Hatem

[Nationalitist]

Gosh, she looks like some Spanish girl.

[Anthropos]

Egyptian girl... :heartbea:

FxkVl7TnyXo

[poiuytrewq0987]

Anthropos, I think we need to liberate Egypt from the Arabs and establish a new European Republic (note. Egypt is an Arab Republic). :D

[Sol Invictus]

looks like a greek girl tbh

[poiuytrewq0987]

looks like a greek girl tbh

Greeks just make up 0.1% of total Egyptian population. :eek: It's a pity the Byzantines failed to defend Aegyptus from the Arabs otherwise it'd be European today and a nice location to vacation. Though I find it rather interesting that the chick chose to identify as Egyptian and that's solely because her father is Egyptian (don't know about the mother, could be Greek?).

[Cato]

Maybe a Berber. Ancient Egypt had much interaction with the Libyans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_people), so maybe she's one of the so-called north African caucasians. I wouldn't be amazed if some Berbers get passed off as "Egyptian."

[Osweo]

She could be an extreme chance variant. Egypt was filled with Circassian blood by the Mamelukes - soldier-slaves of the Sultan - who formed a ruling caste there. This girl looks a bit like one, and I've known several in Russia. There were also Albanians, Jews, Turks, Greeks and many other peoples present, as well as native Copts (themselves a highly varied people) and Arabs.

On the other hand, she might just have a European mother.

It's hard to say, she might just be a regular Egyptian for all the good these relatively poor quality photos are!

[Cato]

Here she is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehsan_Hatem

[poiuytrewq0987]

She could be an extreme chance variant. Egypt was filled with Circassian blood by the Mamelukes - soldier-slaves of the Sultan - who formed a ruling caste there. This girl looks a bit like one, and I've known several in Russia. There were also Albanians, Jews, Turks, Greeks and many other peoples present, as well as native Copts (themselves a highly varied people) and Arabs.

On the other hand, she might just have a European mother.

It's hard to say, she might just be a regular Egyptian for all the good these relatively poor quality photos are!

Circassians? Aren't they a part of the greater Turkic people? There aren't many Turks who look like her. I don't think it's likely because her appearance is way too European to possibly have any Turkic genes. I wish I had her phone number so I can ring her up and ask her to do a 23andme test. :D

[Osweo]

Circassians? Aren't they a part of the greater Turkic people?
Nope!
They're speaker of the Northwest Caucasian isolate family. They like beside the Turkic Balkars and Nogay but have remained distinct. Lots adopted Islam to distinguish themselves from the Georgians and Russians and Ossets, and when the Russians conquered Circassia many of these emigrated for Turkey. But most stayed. You can find blue eyes and blonde hair, indeed.

There aren't many Turks who look like her. I don't think it's likely because her appearance is way too European to possibly have any Turkic genes. I wish I had her phone number so I can ring her up and ask her to do a 23andme test. :D
I think just asking who her mother is would be more useful! The wiki site seems to indicate a suspicion that she was imported to help Egypt win... :p

[poiuytrewq0987]

Nope!
They're speaker of the Northwest Caucasian isolate family. They like beside the Turkic Balkars and Nogay but have remained distinct. Lots adopted Islam to distinguish themselves from the Georgians and Russians and Ossets, and when the Russians conquered Circassia many of these emigrated for Turkey. But most stayed. You can find blue eyes and blonde hair, indeed.

I think just asking who her mother is would be more useful! The wiki site seems to indicate a suspicion that she was imported to help Egypt win... :p

I found her facebook, fuck she is so hot. I love petite women like her. :bored0:

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8886/hotehsan.jpg

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000114484516

[Loki]

There's no reason for "white" looking Egyptians to be necessarily anything other than pure Egyptian. These kind of phenotypes can be found on the periphery of Europe in North Africa and the Middle East, it's not really that noteworthy.

[poiuytrewq0987]

There's no reason for "white" looking Egyptians to be necessarily anything other than pure Egyptian. These kind of phenotypes can be found on the periphery of Europe in North Africa and the Middle East, it's not really that noteworthy.

Well, yes but I find it to be quite interesting that such people exist today. And even more interesting to find out what their ancestry is.

[Guapo]

I think just asking who her mother is would be more useful! The wiki site seems to indicate a suspicion that she was imported to help Egypt win... :p

Her mother's name is Kathleen O'Hara.










I'm lying but it wouldn't surprise me. She has cute freckles on her arms.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Her mother's name is Kathleen O'Hara.










I'm lying but it wouldn't surprise me. She has cute freckles on her arms.

Where did you find that information?

[Guapo]

Where did you find that information?

pročitaj još jednom šta sam napisal.

[Kadu]

Some insight about cranial diversity during the calcholithic in North Africa.


Studies of Ancient Crania From Northern Africa, by S.O.Y. Keita (http://wysinger.homestead.com/keita_1990_northern_africa_1_.pdf)



ABSTRACT

Historical sources and archaeological data predict significant
population variability in mid-Holocene northern Africa. Multivariate analyses
of crania demonstrate wide variation but also suggest an indigenous craniometric
pattern common to both late dynastic northern Egypt and the coastal
Maghreb region. Both tropical African and European metric phenotypes, as
well intermediate patterns, are found in mid-Holocene Maghreb sites. Early
southern predynastic Egyptian crania show tropical African affinities, displaying
craniometric trends that differ notably from the coastal northern
African pattern. The various craniofacial patterns discernible in northern
Africa are attributable to the agents of microevolution and migration.




Furthermore,
the series from the coastal Maghreb
and northern (Lower) Egypt are more
similar to one another than they are to any
other series by centroid values and unknown
analyses.




However, the centroid
value of the combined Maghreb series indicates
that the major craniometric pattern is
most similar to that of northern dynastic
Egyptians, not northwest Europeans.



In summary, canonical variate analysis
demonstrates the impressive variation suggested
previously for early northern Africa.
It also suggests that there was a modal
craniometric phenotype common to northern
Egypt and the coastal Maghreb in the mid-
Holocene, intermediate to European and
southern Egyptian Nile Valley/tropical series.

[poiuytrewq0987]

pročitaj još jednom šta sam napisal.

Lol, I totally misread your post. :coffee:

[Guapo]

Lol, I totally misread your post. :coffee:

That's alright. It happens to white people too.

[Óttar]

She doesn't look like an Arab or Copt. The Copts and Berbers are quite beautiful. She might be a Berber of some sort.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Phenotype-wise, what would you guys classify her?

[Stefan]

I think she would fit in the South Cromagnoid spectrum easily. Just a bit reduced.

Edit: She also reminds me of a friend of mine who is half egyptian half german-american.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I think it's plausible that the father is a Coptic Egyptian or a Hellene who identifies as an Egyptian. It's just not possible for the father to be an Arab and have the child look 100% European.

[Stefan]

Here is that friend I was talking about. A little bit swarthier, but not much different.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/7237/friendyh.jpg

[poiuytrewq0987]

Here is that friend I was talking about. A little bit swarthier, but not much different.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/7237/friendyh.jpg

Have you met her parents? If so, describe how they look like.

[Stefan]

Have you met her parents? If so, describe how they look like.
Only her mother. She is a close friend with my mother, so I might be able to find a picture. I've never met her father(her Egyptian side.)

Edit: If it helps her surname is an Arabic deviation of a Greek name. I'm sure they are common though.

[mvbeleg]

King Tut Died of Blood Disorder: Study
The new finding challenges past assertions that the famous pharaoh died of malaria.

Wed Jun 23, 2010 01:55 PM ET

Legendary pharaoh Tutankhamun was probably killed by the genetic blood disorder sickle cell disease, German scientists said Wednesday, rejecting earlier research that suggested he died of malaria.

The team at the Bernhard Nocht Institute for Tropical Medicine in the northern city of Hamburg questioned the conclusions of a major Egyptian study released in February on the enigmatic boy-king's early demise.

That examination, involving DNA tests and computerized tomography (CT) scans on Tutankhamun's mummy, said he died of malaria after suffering a fall, putting to rest the theory that he was murdered.

But the German researchers said in a letter published online Wednesday by the Journal of the American Medical Association that closer scrutiny of his foot bones pointed to sickle cell disease, in which red blood cells become dangerously misshaped.

"We question the reliability of the genetic data presented in this (the Egyptian) study and therefore the validity of the authors' conclusions," the letter said.

"(The) radiological signs are compatible with osteopathologic lesions seen in sickle cell disease (SCD), a hematological disorder that occurs at gene carrier rates of nine percent to 22 percent in inhabitants of Egyptian oases."

Tutankhamun's death at about 19, after 10 years of rule between 1333 to 1324 B.C., has long been a source of speculation.

One of the most common genetic disorders, sickle cell disease causes blood cells to take the shape of a crescent instead of being smooth and round, thereby blocking blood flow and leading to chronic pain, infections and tissue death.

The researchers called for further DNA tests on Tutankhamun's mummy for a definitive cause of death.


http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/tut-pharaoh-blood-disease.html

[Sigara]

Judging from statues, Taharqa look predominantly causcoid with a SSA admixture, while Will Smith is obviously pure SSA.

Do you feel the casting of Will Smith as Taharqa imply merely ignorance and indifference on the part of the producers, or is it a premeditated part of Hollywood's politically correct agenda to portray Ancient Egypt as being a black African kingdom to the great unwashed?

[Wulfhere]

Taharqa was a member of the 25th, or Nubian Dynasty which had conquered Egypt under his father Piye. Therefore he may well have been quite black, but he wasn't Egyptian. He was also very far from being the last Pharaoh, which honour can best be awarded to the Greek Cleopatra. (Yes, I know the Roman Emperors then annexed the title to their own nomenclature, but they were absentee kings at best.)

[Don Brick]

Judging from statues, Taharqa look predominantly causcoid with a SSA admixture, while Will Smith is obviously pure SSA.

Do you feel the casting of Will Smith as Taharqa imply merely ignorance and indifference on the part of the producers, or is it a premeditated part of Hollywood's politically correct agenda to portray Ancient Egypt as being a black African kingdom to the great unwashed?

Will Smith pure SSA? Don´t be ridiculous. Secondly Taharqa really was a Nubian so most likely he would´ve looked like somebody from modern day Eastern Africa, an individual with Caucasoid like features and dark skin. For an African-American Smith is physically a rather reasonable choice to play Taharqa.

[Sigara]

Will Smith pure SSA? Don´t be ridiculous. Secondly Taharqa really was a Nubian so most likely he would´ve looked like somebody from modern day Eastern Africa, an individual with Caucasoid like features and dark skin. For an African-American Smith is physically a rather reasonable choice to play Taharqa.

Statues vary, but in most Taharqa looks decidedly rather causcasoid. I'm no expert on SSA races, but Will Smith looks more Central or West African to me. He has the height and stature to realistically portray an East African, being tall and slim, whereas West Africans tend to be fairly short and broad, but his face to me does not look East African or Caucasoid at all.

But then again, to Hollywood a black is a black whether he's from South Africa or East Africa. They don't think about it that deeply.

http://images.publicradio.org/content/2009/03/30/20090330_osman_33.jpg

That's the typical East African look.

[Osweo]

His cousin Carlton would obviously be ten times better in the role;
http://blogxilla.com/blog3/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/carlton-dance.gif

[Debaser11]

I'm more upset about the facelift The Swiss Family Robinson are getting. (Will Smith will be "Father Robinson," supposedly.)

Of course, the "Swiss" part is in line to be dropped, too.

Let the blacks have later Egypt. They really had it to some degree. Of course, it was not really the Negroes that controlled it but like Sigara said, Hollywood is not known for getting that accurrate. Plus, Will Smith is a giant star. He needs roles and this one is actually semi-appropriate.

[Austin]

Most black masses in America believe all of Egyptian aristocracy was black and pure black.

[Debaser11]

Austin, do you NOT REMEMBER?;)

VQ15u6zzX3k

[Groenewolf]

Most people already mentioned the Nubian dynasty. So this does not fall under all blacks revisionism (http://www.historyplace.com/pointsofview/not-out.htm) directly. However if you take this current in the back of your mind it can be seen as meant to strengthen this by making a main stream movie about a pharaoh who was an East-African black.

Little change from historians coming out to state that this historical inaccurate, they most likely will find other things but not that. And in the minds of blacks the view will be reinforced they where all black. Just like people I spoke to thought GI Jane is some kind of good argument for letting women serve in the special forces.


I'm more upset about the facelift The Swiss Family Robinson are getting. (Will Smith will be "Father Robinson," supposedly.)

Of course, the "Swiss" part is in line to be dropped, too.

Now this is more direct.

[Debaser11]

It's tough, though. Do we start getting mad about French actors portraying Germans? Or Chinese ones playing Vietnamese? Or Italians and Jews (with make-up) playing Mexicans (as in the spaghetti westerns)? I feel like Will Smith is close enough here. It's not as egregious as that thrown around idea of turning Thor black or making Spiderman black. Those are just obvious attempts to demean white people.

[Wyn]

He'll always be the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air to me. Bad Boys, I Robot...forget it. He needs to get back to playing a high schooler and making corny rap music.

[Korbis]

Are those pan africanists aware that egyptians practiced a cruel form of slavery extensively and in this regard they were no better than the evil whitey? or they just don´t care about that subtle fact while they gain some piece of history in which their role wasn´t lick the feet of another more civilized and accomplished race?

For me they can get the Last Pharaoh if they just leave alone Cleopatra, anyway. But they won´t , obviously.

[Debaser11]

^ Interesting point. Either way, it's a catch twenty-two for an Afrocentrist. You have to give something up. Either you had no great civilization or your slavery track record is no better (in fact, much worse) than whitey's. Of course, their lies don't even have to follow logic.

After all...
"'fore da white man came hoppin' thoward our crib wit da pRAMids 'n' shit, we wuz flyin' an mappin' da stars like kings 'n' queens while da white man wuz in caves eatin' raw meat 'n' shii."

When was this?
"....."

[Eldritch]

Are those pan africanists aware that egyptians practiced a cruel form of slavery extensively and in this regard they were no better than the evil whitey?


It's pretty redundant to say this, but Afrocentrists don't care about facts or logic. They don't even have the IQ to care about them.

And African chieftains were an integral part of the triangle trade. They traded people of the neighboring tribes to British slavers.

[Wyn]

It's pretty redundant to say this, but Afrocentrists don't care about facts or logic. They don't even have the IQ to care about them.

And African chieftains were an integral part of the triangle trade. They traded people of the neighboring tribes to British slavers.

And of course, blacks in the US owned slaves.

A significant amount of black power types also seem to take to Islam (whether it be mainstream Islam, or the "Black Muslim" religions), ignoring Muslim/Arab history regarding slavery.

[Don Brick]

Statues vary, but in most Taharqa looks decidedly rather causcasoid. I'm no expert on SSA races, but Will Smith looks more Central or West African to me. He has the height and stature to realistically portray an East African, being tall and slim, whereas West Africans tend to be fairly short and broad, but his face to me does not look East African or Caucasoid at all.

But then again, to Hollywood a black is a black whether he's from South Africa or East Africa. They don't think about it that deeply.

http://images.publicradio.org/content/2009/03/30/20090330_osman_33.jpg

That's the typical East African look.

I agree. Will Smith is not ideal, but for an African-American i.e. a person of Western African origin (+some Europid input) he is physically about as suitable as a black American mainstream actor can be. Obviously a person of actual Eastern African would be preferable, but you won´t find a lot of them in the States.

[blan]

Endless amounts of study and evidence show that Egypt was not ruled or even mainly populated by sub saharn blacks,

http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2009/04/13/egyptian-y-dna-and-mt-dna-reference/

there are endless articles and research from Egypt and Europe showing threw mummy DNA testing and physical traits such as red, blond hair ect, that the original Egyptians were not Sub sahran black africans.
but constantly certain members of the black community claims it as its own and claims Caucasoid modern day Egyptians are descended of Arab and med migrants. when will someone shut the Afrocentrists up.

[Eldritch]

There's no need to shut up the Afrocentrists. As long as serious academics and institutes of learning aren't bullied into pretending to take their nonsense seriously, Afrocentrists work in "our" favour.

Nevertheless, this may be of interest to you:

http://www.historyplace.com/pointsofview/not-out.htm

[Bloodeagle]

Endless amounts of study and evidence show that Egypt was not ruled or even mainly populated by sub saharn blacks,

http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2009/04/13/egyptian-y-dna-and-mt-dna-reference/

there are endless articles and research from Egypt and Europe showing threw mummy DNA testing and physical traits such as red, blond hair ect, that the original Egyptians were not Sub sahran black africans.
but constantly the black community claims it as its own and claims Caucasoid modern day Egyptians are descended of Arab and med migrants. when will someone shut the Afrocentrists up.

Actually, the Egyptians of the lower Nile valley were rather black and negro!
I am sure that you are familiar with the term Nubian. ;)

http://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/abu-simbel.jpg?w=557&h=377
http://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/nubian-tribute.jpg?w=510&h=355
http://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/nubians-offering.jpg?w=509&h=269
http://data3.blog.de/media/219/2124219_418a8b0867_m.jpg

[blan]

Actually, the Egyptians of the lower Nile valley were rather black and negro!
I am sure that you are familiar with the term Nubian. ;)

http://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/abu-simbel.jpg?w=557&h=377
http://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/nubian-tribute.jpg?w=510&h=355
http://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/nubians-offering.jpg?w=509&h=269
http://data3.blog.de/media/219/2124219_418a8b0867_m.jpg

i am very familiar with the term nubian and i am aware that threw slave trade and migration there were and are black egyptians some of whom took high positions, and some of whom mixed with some of the ruling class.
but this was not the whole populace and this was not the representation of the majority of the ruling peoples of Egypt. caucasoid Egyptians are not some sort of new implant within north africa.

[blan]

There's no need to shut up the Afrocentrists. As long as serious academics and institutes of learning aren't bullied into pretending to take their nonsense seriously, Afrocentrists work in "our" favour.

Nevertheless, this may of interest to you:

http://www.historyplace.com/pointsofview/not-out.htm

good article, yes i am sick and tired of this debate as well, now they are trying to claim Greek culture! when will this insanity end?
there African tribes they can claim without debate the Zulus the Ashanti Yoruba ect ect. but they feel the need to make far fetched claims and say all the wonders of Egypt are theres and created by them alone and caucasoid Egyptians are outsiders they say. now this is a huge stretch of the truth but to up it and go completely crazy they claim Greek culture. At this point i wont even debate because they do not even have a leg to stand on.
noirists ((black power movement)) wont even let me celebrate any trace of European contribution to the French isles of the Caribbean but they can claim Greek culture?!

[Bloodeagle]

i am very familiar with the term nubian and i am aware that threw slave trade and migration there were and are black egyptians some of whom took high positions, and some of whom mixed with some of the ruling class.
but this was not the whole populace and this was not the representation of the majority of the ruling peoples of Egypt. caucasoid Egyptians are not some sort of new implant within north africa.

No, but that was lower Egypt. :p
No, the upper Egyptians were not very black, but how could you call them Caucasian?

[Peasant]

The Caucasoid peoples were usually divided in three groups on linguistic grounds, termed Aryan (Indo-European), Semitic (Semitic languages) and Hamitic (Berber-Cushitic-Egyptian).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race

[blan]

No, but that was lower Egypt. :p
No, the upper Egyptians were not very black, but how could you call them Caucasian?

((Caucasoid)) could some of them be considered Caucasian? well in the case of the Berbers yes there are North Africans tribes classified as Caucasian and i do know of some modern day Egyptians that could be classified as Caucasian.
There was a migration of Egyptians many years ago in my region and i know some of there descendants who would pass for white ...((though mind you there families mixed with spanish immigrants)) but i do not claim to be a expert on this subject but i do know a portion of North Africa is of semitic and Caucasoid stock in history and in modern times.
from what i know the majority in certain places of north Africa.

here are examples of north africans who are very Caucasoid
are there Caucasian North Africans? i would say yes many are classified as such. but not trying to start a whos white and whos not war here just stating how many are classified

[Bloodeagle]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race
The term is rather misleading. :)

The Caucasoid peoples were usually divided in three groups on linguistic grounds, termed Aryan (Indo-European), Semitic (Semitic languages) and Hamitic (Berber-Cushitic-Egyptian). So I am to believe that language is what makes someone, Caucasoid. :rolleyes:




(Berber-Cushitic-Egyptian)The Kingdom of Kush or Cush was an ancient African state centered on the confluences of the Blue Nile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Nile), White Nile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Nile) and River Atbara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Atbara) in what is now the Republic of Sudan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Sudan). It was one of the earliest civilizations to develop in the Nile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nile) River Valley. Having also been referred to as Nubia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nubia), and as "Ethiopia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopia)" in ancient Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece) and Greco-Roman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Roman) records, the Kushites left their mark on various aspects of the ancient world and their legacy is still readily discernible from the various archaeological field sites scattered throughout modern Sudan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan). - Negroes, I am afraid! :D
So the negroes spoke a caucasoid language, they must be white!

Let me just say that I believe that the Egyptians predate any of the modern cherished notions of race and color.

[Foxy]

The Dinasty of Tolomeos was Greek, put on the throne of Egypt after that the former Alexander the Great's empire was divided in various diadoches (generals). Tolomeo had the Egypt. Tha last faraons, including Cleopatra Tolomeo, were ethnically Greek.
Moreover, the province of Macedonia was Greek. Its capital, Pella, still is in the Northern part pf Greek, not in FYROM

http://www.pickatrail.com/jupiter/location/europe/greece/map/pella.gif

Besided black were not well considered in Egypt. A faraon (I don't remember his name, sry), built a wall to isolate the black tribes living in the southern border of Egypt and the ones who passed it were sentenced to death penalty.
I am not saying that the faraons of the other dinasties were white. Tolomeos were. The other were Egyptians. Egyptians are not Arabs but an own ethnicity, non semitic.

[Peasant]

The term is rather misleading. :)
So I am to believe that language is what makes someone, Caucasoid. :rolleyes:


I think the Cushtic Caucasians are probably the Beja people, who look obviously darker/more sub-Saharan African than right at the extremes of the north.

Some of them look like really dark Arabs, some look pretty much completely Black African.

Edit: Infact, god knows... I was looking at Beja Bedouins.

[blan]

The term is rather misleading. :)
So I am to believe that language is what makes someone, Caucasoid. :rolleyes:



The Kingdom of Kush or Cush was an ancient African state centered on the confluences of the Blue Nile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Nile), White Nile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Nile) and River Atbara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Atbara) in what is now the Republic of Sudan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Sudan). It was one of the earliest civilizations to develop in the Nile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nile) River Valley. Having also been referred to as Nubia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nubia), and as "Ethiopia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopia)" in ancient Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece) and Greco-Roman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Roman) records, the Kushites left their mark on various aspects of the ancient world and their legacy is still readily discernible from the various archaeological field sites scattered throughout modern Sudan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan). - Negroes, I am afraid! :D
So the negroes spoke a caucasoid language, they must be white!

Let me just say that I believe that the Egyptians predate any of the modern cherished notions of race and color.

they may predate our modern classifications but the fact remains there was a difference in physical traits and cultural difference even then.
and many of the remains of Egyptian rulers and peoples would not be classified as Sub sahran black african. there is a difference.
I am not trying to claim Egyptians as white i am saying that Egyptian and all that goes with it being claimed as black invention is insane.
as far as egyptians in modern times being Caucasian... you tell me?

[The Lawspeaker]

Some may be. But a lot of them are not. They have been Arabified over the times. I remember Farah (from Lebanon) as not being very Arab-looking either -and the same goes for quite a number of Persians.

[blan]

Some may be. But a lot of them are not. They have been Arabified over the times.

i do not disagree but same as many middle eastern countries there are a portion who are Caucasian from a racial perspective or at least nearly.
regardless the Culture of North Africa and its people is very different than that of Sub Saharan Africa. They are different worlds in there culture and History

[Bloodeagle]

they may predate our modern classifications but the fact remains there was a difference in physical traits and cultural difference even then.
and many of the remains of Egyptian rulers and peoples would not be classified as Sub sahran black african. there is a difference.
I am not trying to claim Egyptians as white i am saying that Egyptian and all that goes with it being claimed as black invention is insane.
as far as egyptians in modern times being Caucasian... you tell me?

Well, I thought that we all agreed that these Afro centrists were crazy but the fact remains that Egypt was not entirely white in color and there were black natives of Egypt. :D

[blan]

Well, I thought that we all agreed that these Afro centrists were crazy but the fact remains that Egypt was not entirely white in color and there were black natives of Egypt. :D

i would never deny that there are native black Egyptians, yes this was and is true to this day. however there are people out there claiming that there were no Caucasoid/non black Egyptians and these Arabs/Greeks/ non blacks ect ran in and stole everything from them. they are attempting to lay claim not only to the amazing culture and achievements of non black Egyptians but they go further and attempt to lay claim to the culture of Greeks, whats next?? Italians? all of Europe? guess what? yes they are i have spoke face to face with some that claim they can take nearly full credit for the planet!
and though we can laugh and say ohh they are crazy! hahah...the problem is there are legions of whites who would and agree with them.

XYXE3tnXVKo

[blan]

Now there claims do not stop there, they then claim since the Egyptians were black that moses must have been black because he resided with the ruling class so if moses was black the Jews were black and if the original true jews were black then Jesus was black, and then they regard all other Caucasian people as vampire mutants.

[Lábaru]

here are examples of north africans who are very Caucasoid
are there Caucasian North Africans? i would say yes many are classified as such. but not trying to start a whos white and whos not war here just stating how many are classified

Yes!!! very real pictures!! I've been in North Africa and I can say that they were all like in those pictures.

[Azanigin]

This is quite an interesting video.

1yL3e2WujsI

I have recently returned from Egypt..
The Ancient Egyptians would turn in their tombs if they saw Egypt today.

[mvbeleg]

Actually, the Egyptians of the lower Nile valley were rather black and negro! I am sure that you are familiar with the term Nubian.


No, but that was lower Egypt.

I believe you are misusing the terminology `lower Nile valley' and `lower Egypt'. This terminology is used to refer to the geographical region also known as the Nile Delta. The border between Upper Egypt [in the south] and Lower Egypt [in the north] is often taken to be Memphis. Tradition has it that Upper and Lower Egypt were distinct kingdoms whereas they were united under Narmer [or some say Menes]. Scholars generally agree that the people of ancient Upper and Lower Egypt were, for the most part, racially Caucasoid.

The ancient Nubian or Cushite civilization [whose population is universally agreed to be racially Negroid] is probably older than that of ancient Egypt.

[Allenson]

I'm fascinated by the Tassili ladies--an interesting example of rock art from the Tassili region of modern day Algeria:

http://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/tassili_ladies-3000bc.jpg?w=500

http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2009/01/03/

[Óttar]

Notice how nowhere in that article does it make clear that the vast majority of Egyptians weren't Black. Even if the Greeks had "stolen" ideas from Egypt, it would be irrelevant brcause *surprise*, the Egyptians weren't black!

[Osweo]

The Dinasty of Tolomeos was Greek, put on the throne of Egypt after that the former Alexander the Great's empire was divided in various diadoches (generals). Tolomeo had the Egypt. Tha last faraons, including Cleopatra Tolomeo, were ethnically Greek.

Cail made a great post here;
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=314770

There are ... DIAGRAMS!!!! :clap: :p

[mvbeleg]

The BBC recently made a documentary about ancient Nubia.

tp6P_hBnF1s

MIDDMGYBEOE

_6W-mSft32M

OaFLEVvxuTY

d14U0EFdt7U

g6wI8MevDok

[blan]

Here we go the domino effect of claiming Egypt was black nation.

-m95poYEO-g

now they claim the jewish ethinic group belonged to them...until!!! ((they were hijacked and mixed and everything was stolen)) funny how that always seems to happen :D.
and now Jesus and the Christian Religion belong to sub saharan blacks but yet again it was stolen and hijacked, and so was jazz, and rock n roll, at least they do not try and claim classical music...in time they may. opera is Italian and they will claim all Italian opera.

i would love to make a funny you tube video sketch, it would star a afrocentrists being robbed daily (( look at this new cure for cancer i invented)) then the evil white scientist comes and steals it.(( blast damn you white scientist!!!!)).

[Franz]

By Frances Cronin
BBC News
24 May 2011 Last updated at 19:32 ET
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13522957


Egyptian pyramids found by infra-red satellite images

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/52989000/jpg/_52989046_tanis624x289.jpg
The infrared image on the right reveals the ancient city streets of Tanis near modern-day San El Hagar

Seventeen lost pyramids are among the buildings identified in a new satellite survey of Egypt.

More than 1,000 tombs and 3,000 ancient settlements were also revealed by looking at infra-red images which show up underground buildings.

Initial excavations have already confirmed some of the findings, including two suspected pyramids.

The work has been pioneered at the University of Alabama at Birmingham by US Egyptologist Dr Sarah Parcak.

She says she was amazed at how much she and her team has found.

"We were very intensely doing this research for over a year. I could see the data as it was emerging, but for me the "Aha!" moment was when I could step back and look at everything that we'd found and I couldn't believe we could locate so many sites all over Egypt.

"To excavate a pyramid is the dream of every archaeologist," she said.

The team analysed images from satellites orbiting 700km above the earth, equipped with cameras so powerful they can pin-point objects less than 1m in diameter on the earth's surface.

Infra-red imaging was used to highlight different materials under the surface.


Test excavations

Ancient Egyptians built their houses and structures out of mud brick, which is much denser than the soil that surrounds it, so the shapes of houses, temples and tombs can be seen.

"It just shows us how easy it is to underestimate both the size and scale of past human settlements," says Dr Parcak.

And she believes there are more antiquities to be discovered:

"These are just the sites [close to] the surface. There are many thousands of additional sites that the Nile has covered over with silt. This is just the beginning of this kind of work."

BBC cameras followed Dr Parcak on her "nervous" journey when she travelled to Egypt to see if excavations could back up what her technology could see under the surface.

In the BBC documentary Egypt's Lost Cities (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b011pwms), they visit an area of Saqqara (Sakkara) where the authorities were not initially interested in her findings.

But after being told by Dr Parcak that she had seen two potential pyramids, they made test excavations, and they now believe it is one of the most important archaeological sites in Egypt.

But Dr Parcak said the most exciting moment was visiting the excavations at Tanis.

"They'd excavated a 3,000-year-old house that the satellite imagery had shown and the outline of the structure matched the satellite imagery almost perfectly. That was real validation of the technology."

The Egyptian authorities plan to use the technology to help - among other things - protect the country's antiquities in the future.

During the recent revolution, looters accessed some well-known archaeological sites.

"We can tell from the imagery a tomb was looted from a particular period of time and we can alert Interpol to watch out for antiquities from that time that may be offered for sale."

She also hopes the new technology will help engage young people in science and will be a major help for archaeologists around the world.

"It allows us to be more focused and selective in the work we do. Faced with a massive site, you don't know where to start.

"It's an important tool to focus where we're excavating. It gives us a much bigger perspective on archaeological sites. We have to think bigger and that's what the satellites allow us to do."

"Indiana Jones is old school, we've moved on from Indy. Sorry, Harrison Ford."

Egypt's Lost Cities (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b011pwms) is on BBC One on Monday 30 May at 2030 BST.

[Boudica]

This is awesome.

[HungAryan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiMfXZyCe9w
eiMfXZyCe9w

From "Erectus Walks among us (http://erectuswalksamongst.us/)"

The early Egyptians were Caucasian. From 3400 to 1800 B.C., Egypt excelled in architecture, mathematics, and science. As Egyptians moved south, up the Nile River, they encountered black Africans (Nubians), who were brought back as slaves.
Miscegenation spread, Egyptians became more Negroid, and Egyptian civilization began a decline from which it has never recovered. “The weak, disease-ridden population of modern Egypt offers dramatic evidence of the evil effects of a hybridization which has gone on for 5000 years.” Today, Egypt is a Third World country with an average IQ of only 77 to 83.

[Husaria]

It is intellectually dishonest to say Egypt was Black or White.

However they were generally Caucasoid.

They were Afro-Asiatic speakers who depicted themselves in a more medium skin color generally.

Haplogroup R1b doesn't mean they were White.

Some tribes in Cameroon are over 95 + percent R1b (Higher than anywhere in Europe) Yet, They still look fully negroid

In fact Cameroon people seem to be more Negroid & Darker than most of Africa.

To be honest I think R1b people in Europe actually look more Negroid than R1b people in Cameroon do Caucasoid.

[Allenson]

To be honest I think R1b people in Europe actually look more Negroid than R1b people in Cameroon do Caucasoid.

It's a completely different branch of R1b than any of the European lineages. It broke off from the main stem deep in antiquity and likely represents the remains of a back migration into northern Africa. :rolleyes:

Post a picture of a Cameroonian who is R-V88 if you have one handy, please.

[HungAryan]

Come on guys, this is not about R1b or R-V88 :D

[Sikeliot]

Ancient Egyptians probably looked very similar to today's Egyptians.. neither white nor black but predominantly Caucasoid with some Negroid (of the East African variety) influence.

[poiuytrewq0987]

If ancient Egyptians were black then I'd look like an Africoon since I carry E3b of ancient Egyptian variant. :coffee:


The early Egyptians were Caucasian. From 3400 to 1800 B.C., Egypt excelled in architecture, mathematics, and science. As Egyptians moved south, up the Nile River, they encountered black Africans (Nubians), who were brought back as slaves.
Miscegenation spread, Egyptians became more Negroid, and Egyptian civilization began a decline from which it has never recovered. “The weak, disease-ridden population of modern Egypt offers dramatic evidence of the evil effects of a hybridization which has gone on for 5000 years.” Today, Egypt is a Third World country with an average IQ of only 77 to 83.

Egyptian civilisation was actually given second wind under Ptolemy but unfortunately, it was conquered by Arabs during the 7th century starting an irreversible decline of Egypt.

[HungAryan]

If ancient Egyptians were black then I'd look like an Africoon since I carry E3b of ancient Egyptian variant. :coffee:

The Ancient Egyptians were originally white, until they started mixing with negroes

[Husaria]

Ancient Egyptians probably looked very similar to today's Egyptians.. neither white nor black but predominantly Caucasoid with some Negroid (of the East African variety) influence.

Yeah, I kind of agree.
But, Ancient Egyptian Burials show more Caucasoid genes.

My bet is Ancient Egyptians probably looked more like Lebanese people do today.

[Sikeliot]

The Ancient Egyptians were originally white, until they started mixing with negroes


Probably not white in the European sense though, but rather like today's Berbers.

[Sikeliot]

Yeah, I kind of agree.
But, Ancient Egyptian Burials show more Caucasoid genes.

My bet is Ancient Egyptians probably looked more like Lebanese people do today.

Lebanese people look far more European than the ancient Egyptians' hieroglyphics portray the Egyptians as having looked.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Probably not white in the European sense though, but rather like today's Berbers.

Today's Berbers are nothing but Arab mutts they can't be used in a comparison to ancient Egyptians.

[HungAryan]

The Ancient Egyptians were genetically related to Berbers (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30609) and Ethiopians (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJuj2cPThkQ).

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30609
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJuj2cPThkQ
UJuj2cPThkQ

[Sikeliot]

The Ancient Egyptians were genetically related to Berbers (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30609) and Ethiopians (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJuj2cPThkQ).

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30609
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJuj2cPThkQ
UJuj2cPThkQ


Probably something of an intermediate between the two.

[Comte Arnau]

Lol. These things can only happen in America. I'm sure Egyptians don't claim about Tut's blackness. :D

Even if there was some black admixture, ancient Egyptians were mostly non-European Caucasoids, just like -oh surprise- they are today.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Lol. These things can only happen in America. I'm sure Egyptians don't claim about Tut's blackness. :D

Even if there was some black admixture, ancient Egyptians were mostly non-European Caucasoids, just like -oh surprise- they are today.

I'm pretty sure ancient Egyptians never looked like Arabs because that's what modern Egyptians are.

http://media1.santabanta.com/full1/Beauty%20Contests/Miss%20Universe%202007/mis136h.jpg

[Sikeliot]

I'm pretty sure ancient Egyptians never looked like Arabs because that's what modern Egyptians are.

http://media1.santabanta.com/full1/Beauty%20Contests/Miss%20Universe%202007/mis136h.jpg


That woman doesn't even look Arab.. she's half British.

[HungAryan]

I'm pretty sure ancient Egyptians never looked like Arabs because that's what modern Egyptians are.

http://media1.santabanta.com/full1/Beauty%20Contests/Miss%20Universe%202007/mis136h.jpg

I doubt that Modern Egyptians are Arabs.
The Medieval Arabs were always a minority among the peoples they conquered: Levanites, Berbers, Egyptians, Persians. Genetically, less than 10% of Modern Egyptians have ancestry that originates in the Arabian peninsula.
Even today, you can clearly distinguish Levanites (Palestinians and Lebanese) and Berbers from Saudis and Yemenis.

[Husaria]

Lebanese people look far more European than the ancient Egyptians' hieroglyphics portray the Egyptians as having looked.

Lebanese today

http://www.globaleye.org.uk/secondary_spring06/eyeon/images/youngpeople.jpg

Ancient Egyptians

http://cdn.animhut.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/050216_rfoster_mp_his_egypt0048.jpg


http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregypt/breads13.jpg

Pretty close

[gold_fenix]

I heard that that the descend of egyptians are the coptos, original lebanese were phoenicians

[Comte Arnau]

I'm pretty sure ancient Egyptians never looked like Arabs because that's what modern Egyptians are.


If you think a typical Egyptian looks like a typical Arab, you've never seen a typical Egyptian nor a typical Arab. Period.

This said, you're right in one thing. There's some Arab admixture in present Egypt that did not exist in Egypt -logically- before the Arab expansion.

[Ibericus]

I doubt that Modern Egyptians are Arabs.
The Medieval Arabs were always a minority among the peoples they conquered: Levanites, Berbers, Egyptians, Persians. Genetically, less than 10% of Modern Egyptians have ancestry that originates in the Arabian peninsula.
Even today, you can clearly distinguish Levanites (Palestinians and Lebanese) and Berbers from Saudis and Yemenis.
well, Egyptians at Dodecad have like 33% Arabian.

[poiuytrewq0987]

That woman doesn't even look Arab.. she's half British.

Her father is Egyptian and her name is thoroughly Arabic.


I doubt that Modern Egyptians are Arabs.
The Medieval Arabs were always a minority among the peoples they conquered: Levanites, Berbers, Egyptians, Persians. Genetically, less than 10% of Modern Egyptians have ancestry that originates in the Arabian peninsula.
Even today, you can clearly distinguish Levanites (Palestinians and Lebanese) and Berbers from Saudis and Yemenis.

No, that's just not true. Egypt back then was sparsely populated unlike today's Egypt. Egypt had only 3 million people living in it at the time of Napoleon's conquest of Egypt.

[HungAryan]

No, that's just not true. Egypt back then was sparsely populated unlike today's Egypt. Egypt had only 3 million people living in it at the time of Napoleon's conquest of Egypt.

Still, it has been scientifically proven that only 10 out of 100 Egyptians have ancestry that can/could be traced back to the Arabian Peninsula.
And I'm not talking about people tracing back their ancestry by family trees.
I'm talking about genes, genetics, DNA.
Only 10 out of 100 Egyptians have genetic kinship with the populations of the Arabian Peninsula.

[European blood]

LONDON Aug 1 (Reuters Life!) - Up to 70 percent of British men and half of all Western European men are related to the Egyptian Pharaoh Tutankhamun, geneticists in Switzerland said.

Scientists at Zurich-based DNA genealogy centre, iGENEA, reconstructed the DNA profile of the boy Pharaoh, who ascended the throne at the age of nine, his father Akhenaten and grandfather Amenhotep III, based on a film that was made for the Discovery Channel.

The results showed that King Tut belonged to a genetic profile group, known as haplogroup R1b1a2, to which more than 50 percent of all men in Western Europe belong, indicating that they share a common ancestor.

Among modern-day Egyptians this haplogroup contingent is below 1 percent, according to iGENEA.

"It was very interesting to discover that he belonged to a genetic group in Europe -- there were many possible groups in Egypt that the DNA could have belonged to," said Roman Scholz, director of the iGENEA Centre.

Around 70 percent of Spanish and 60 percent of French men also belong to the genetic group of the Pharaoh who ruled Egypt more than 3,000 years ago.

"We think the common ancestor lived in the Caucasus about 9,500 years ago," Scholz told Reuters.

It is estimated that the earliest migration of haplogroup R1b1a2 into Europe began with the spread of agriculture in 7,000 BC, according to iGENEA.

However, the geneticists were not sure how Tutankhamun's paternal lineage came to Egypt from its region of origin.

The centre is now using DNA testing to search for the closest living relatives of "King Tut".

"The offer has only been publicised for three days but we have already seen a lot of interest," Scholz told Reuters.

http://af.reuters.com/article/egyptNews/idAFL3E7J135P20110801?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0&sp=true

[Pallantides]

Already posted it:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30947


Seems it was fake though...
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/08/igeneas-king-tut-claims.html

[Rochefaton]

This is only true if the STR values pulled from the Discovery Channel special are accurate, which is debatable. As of now, this is nothing more than speculation.

If it turns out that Tut and his forefathers were Y-DNA R1b guys, then I will start claiming to be a Son of Ra. :)

[Lábaru]

And this means that the king came from Europe?

[Rochefaton]

And this means that the king came from Europe?

Not necessarily. It just means that if true, Tut shares a common paternal forefather with roughly half of the men in Europe. There is no telling where this ancestor lived, however.

[European blood]

And this means that the king came from Europe?

Probably means that the original North African population like the ancient egyptians were more related with Europeans than with Africans.

[European blood]

gKktNT6U2k0

0KpzeTQ1f3s

[SwordoftheVistula]

And this means that the king came from Europe?

It means that King Tut and his royal family share common ancestry with much of the modern occupants of Europe.

Exact movements of ancient peoples are difficult to determine exactly, but it appears that several thousand years ago the ancestors of what we call European/white people moved from west/central Asian steppes into Europe (which was then largely uninhabited) and also into the near east where they established ruling classes.

So, probably not traveling directly from Europe to Egypt, but one branch of the 'family' goes to Egypt and establishes a ruling class there and another branch travels to Europe and spreads throughout the continent.

[Sahson]

I hope not, that guy was a product of incest. :sick2:

[SwordoftheVistula]

I hope not, that guy was a product of incest. :sick2:

Probably a result of the rather small population of 'European type' people in that country, eventually the only way they could find a partner of similar background was from the increasingly small royal family/'European type' nobility.

[poiuytrewq0987]

http://www.bosniafacts.info/genetics/Macedonia.png

[Gregorios]

Ramses II

http://www.kingtutshop.com/free-pictures/ramses1.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xrHbco50PI4/TPAMNvmKffI/AAAAAAAAAIg/3hv91e-pKIE/s1600/ramses-ii-l.jpg

Ramses III

http://www.livius.org/a/1/egypt/ramses_iii.jpg

Tutankhamun

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00322/pg-2-tutankhamun-ge_322366t.jpg
http://ancient-history-tuts-tomb.wikispaces.com/file/view/Tuts_head_remade.jpg/77323457/Tuts_head_remade.jpg
http://www.pharaohjunior.com/image/Wooden%20statue%20of%20the%20king%20Tutankhamun.jp g

Cleopatra
http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/cleopatra.jpg

[Gregorios]

Ramses II looks Dinaricized Armenoid to me.

[Gregorios]

Tutankhamun must be some sort of Arabid or Berberid, and Cleopatria looks like some sort of East Mediterranid.
To me, at least.

[burzum6590]

Totankhamun looks sort of negroid.

[Gregorios]

Totankhamun looks sort of negroid.

He could have had admixture. What about the others?

[Mordid]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xrHbco50PI4/TPAMNvmKffI/AAAAAAAAAIg/3hv91e-pKIE/s1600/ramses-ii-l.jpg
^Fairly good example of Keltic Nordid.

[Gregorios]

Here are some more...

Djoser

http://www.touregypt.net/images/touregypt/djoser6.jpghttp://tte2uq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pK4OvgPPUWP6OIhxccyHCiav555xdJ-n5oHvp0qsL8v7GTB5rY61YHZvTqgrF_JM_aGtGADmvt7r6dJb5 S5nruFMGRZajXpuD/djoser2.jpg?psid=1

Ramassess III

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/Ramses_III_mummy_head.png/480px-Ramses_III_mummy_head.png

Neferiti

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Nofretete_Neues_Museum.jpg/409px-Nofretete_Neues_Museum.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1e/PortraitStudyOfNefertiti-ThutmoseWorkshop_EgyptianMuseumBerlin.png/530px-PortraitStudyOfNefertiti-ThutmoseWorkshop_EgyptianMuseumBerlin.png

[Oreka Bailoak]

First of all, based on these pictures where the phenotype has been destroyed I think you can only determine basic skull shape such as; Dinard, Irano-Nordid or Cro-Magnoid. To classify further is futile in my opinion.

Rameses the II looks Irano-Nordid to me. Notice his strong occipital bun.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xrHbco50PI4/TPAMNvmKffI/AAAAAAAAAIg/3hv91e-pKIE/s1600/ramses-ii-l.jpg

King Tut is a different story though. First of all Scientists say that he's had skull elongation...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_flattening
This can radically affect the shape of the skull for example look at this picture...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/ParacasSkullsIcaMuseum.jpg
^Ridiculous changes are possible...

But anyways based on King Tuts skull I say he also looks Irano-Nordid. Look at his occipital bun. This may be due to skull elongation- I don't know.
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1015668081844&id=4d808cafbc0946d89524e89f6b4232c2
http://www.photofunblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/King-Tutankhamun.jpg
http://www.guardians.net/hawass/Tut/images/Tut%201.%20French%20Team.jpg

The Irano-Nordid classification seems typical with modern day Egyptians or North African Berbers whom are also Dolichocephalic.

[Gregorios]

Irano-Nordid... hmmm... Where did they come from? I guess the origin of the Egyptians is now much greater mystery than it has ever been.

[Gregorios]

By the way, does that skull elongation and head flattening hurt very much?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cranial_deformation
It seems to me that it would have been a huge pain for the infant.

[Oreka Bailoak]

Irano-Nordid... hmmm... Where did they come from? I guess the origin of the Egyptians is now much greater mystery than it has ever been.


I've tried reading the most up-to-date research on human migrations/origins and I think the consensus that Irano-Nordids are native to North Africa. I think the Berbers are hypothesized as the most ancient population group in North Africa. Maybe I'm wrong. I think the later immigrants to Africa- the Arabs also were dolychocephalic. But the Arab immigration was after ancient Egypt. Who was the people during ancient Egypt? Maybe some sort of cross between ancient west middle eastern and Berber north African- I have no idea.

I'm basing this on the maps of C.I. in modern day populations of North Africa.
http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe-map6a.jpg


It seems to me that it would have been a huge pain for the infant.
I can't even imagine the pain. I could hardly stand the pain from my braces.

[Gregorios]

I've tried reading the most up-to-date research on human migrations/origins and I think the consensus that Irano-Nordids are native to North Africa. I think the Berbers are hypothesized as the most ancient population group in North Africa. Maybe I'm wrong. I think the later immigrants to Africa- the Arabs also were dolychocephalic.

I'm basing this on the maps of C.I. in modern day populations of North Africa.
http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe-map6a.jpg

Hmmmm... interesting.
I've seen some very White-looking Berbers before, but Nordic?
I thought they were exclusively Mediterranean.

[Mordid]

I've tried reading the most up-to-date research on human migrations/origins and I think the consensus that Irano-Nordids are native to North Africa. I think the Berbers are hypothesized as the most ancient population group in North Africa. Maybe I'm wrong. I think the later immigrants to Africa- the Arabs also were dolychocephalic.

I'm basing this on the maps of C.I. in modern day populations of North Africa.
http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe-map6a.jpg

Aren't Irano-Nordids native to Kurdish, Iranian, and the like ?

[Logan]

They do not seem African. I believe that the Goths were as well into the head shaping. Doubt it was more a discomfort than the Chinese ladies went through with the foot-binding.

[Gregorios]

I would have rather died that been in the place of Tutankhamun, with that artificial cranial deformation... I can't even imagine the pain.
It's inhumane, and it's so unthinkable that the so "civilized" Egyptians have commited such savagery.

[Oreka Bailoak]

Aren't Irano-Nordids native to Kurdish, Iranian, and the like ?

I think Irano-Nordids show signs of Neanderthal admixture- such as the occipital bun or brow ridges. This would point to an origin far distant and complex to simply say- they evolved here and here only (at least based on the fossil records of today).

So that would mean that Irano-Nordids came about after an immigration out of Africa admixed with native Neanderthals in the middle east or Europe. Though the years the Brow Ridges have been lessened and the thickness of the skull has thinned considerably and the resulting racial type was the Irano-Nordid. Maybe this mixing that resulted in Irano-Nordid was multi-regional (multiple origins resulting in Irano-Nordid) or maybe from a common origin that spread- nobody knows. But certain groups have much larger occipital buns than other groups- such as the Finns. I think this may be a sign of multi-regionalism but I'm not sure.

This is what the evidence has lead me to believe and maybe I'm wrong but until someone can show me otherwise this is what I believe.


This is a Neanderthal. It's a classic Neanderthal about 60,000 years old, from France. It's got a big, huge projecting face and a big brow ridge. And it's got a projecting back of its skull. It's called an occipital bun. It's like somebody took their fist and punched out the inside of its brain case. And here's an early modern human from Europe, about 30,000 years old.

And he's obviously not the same as a Neanderthal, his face is a lot smaller, and it's underneath the brain case a lot more. But it still has pretty big brow ridges, and it's also got somewhat of an occipital bun. So the question is, are the large browridges and the occipital bun on this fellow inherited from, from the Neanderthal? Are these things the same or do they just look the same?

NARRATOR: Lieberman and colleagues Dennis Bramble and Brian Richmond, want to find out what purpose an occipital bun might have served in the first place.

They suspect it might have something to do with the bio-mechanics of running.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2902neanderthals.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occipital_bun

I wish I could find this good comparison picture between neanderthal and irano-nordid skull to show you the similarities but I cannot find the picture right now...

[Oreka Bailoak]

Actually the only big problem with what I'm saying is that just because we have an occiptial bun alone doesn't prove that we are part Neanderthal because...

Bushmen in South Africa have occipital buns and so do Australian aborigines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occipital_bun

And Sub-Saharan Africa and Australian Aboriginees do not have Neanderthal ancestry.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110718085329.htm

But based upon the fossil record the origin of the Occipital bun in Europeans is hypothesized as resulting from a mixture of Cro-Magnons (flat occipital buns) and Neanderthals (occipital buns) due to hybrids found that were mixes of both groups.
http://www.archaeology.org/online/news/neanderkid.html

[Logan]

http://www.listze.com/uploads/item-7669.jpg

http://metalonmetalblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/cranial-deformations.html

[Svipdag]

I assume that the Cleopatra shown is Cleopatra VII, the mistress of IVLIVS CÆSAR and MARCVS ANTONIVS. If so. it should be borne in mind that she was not an Egyptian. She was descended from Alexander of Macedon's general , Ptolemaios.



"SCIENTIA NON HABET INIMICVM NISI IGNORANTEM" - Anon Y. Mous

[Osweo]

She was descended from Alexander of Macedon's general , Ptolemaios.

About thirty times, as far as Cail could make out here;
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16650 :eek:

He was her great great great great great great grandad (6 times),
and also her great great great great great great great grandad (16 times),
as well as her great great great great great great great great grandad (8 times).

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6561&stc=1&d=1292546642

[Sikeliot]

I'd bet the ancient Egyptians were something between Levantines and Ethiopians.

[Turul]

Let us take a look at some archaeological evidence to see who the ancient Egyptians really were.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Nefertiti_Bust

This is the original 3300-year-old limestone bust, with original paint.

It amazes me how many ‘modern’ Afro-centrists try to make the ancient Egyptians, and especially the most beautiful Egyptian Queen who ever lived into a Nubian. Does the bust look Nubian to you?

Then look also at her husband Akhenaten.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:Akhenaten_with_blue_crown.jpg

Look at the nose, lips, brow, and chin.

Bear in mind that any sculptor that got it wrong was likely a dead man.

We must then logically deduce, that these statues are as accurate as they can be.

We must then logically deduce what group they fall into.

Are they Negroid, Mongoloid, or Caucasoid?

Are they a mix?

What do you think?

[Vorsord]

King Tut DNA 99.6% Western European
Recently-leaked DNA test results prove ancient Egyptian royal Pharaoh Tutankhamen, aka King Tut, is 99.6% Western European

http://www.therightperspective.org/2010/06/06/king-tut-dna-99-6-western-european/

[Kacca]

in the past they were more varied

now they are more homogeneous, with brown skin

http://www.biblepicturegallery.com/samples/pa/world/nations/people/Egyptians%20Canaanites%20Nubians%20and%20Lybians%2 0on%20fresc.gif

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/1/31/1296509829676/Muslim-Brotherhood-007.jpg

[GeistFaust]

The Ancient Egyptians were probably rather varied in retrospect. A great deal of the heart of their culture was Semitic in nature. That said there was some mingling with indigenous peoples to Africa, namely the Berbers. The Berbers have a long history in this area and then there were some Nubian, Nilhotic, and Aethipoid peoples which had interactions on the Egytpian peoples. The Egytpians were known for integrating foreign peoples which would eventually rise up against them.


A notable example of this is the Hyskos, who were deemed to be an Asiatic people that came from Turkey on the wave of mauraders throughout the 14th and 13th century. I think they had a cultural and social structure which enslaved local black peoples. The Afrocentric ideas of Ancient Egypt are absolutely absurd, especially when they lay claim to Cleopatra as being a black African. :rolleyes: The Modern Egyptians are quite diverse and have probably mixed more so then in the past due to the collapse of their empire.


There is probably more of an Arab component there that came with the Islamic expansions. The local populations have darkened quite a bit from the influences of Nubian, Aethiopoid, and Nilhotic peoples. This occured to the Berbers as well in some areas, but to a lesser extent, because they were so isolated. I would say Modern Egyptians are probably more diverse then the Ancient Egyptians with the breaking down of their civilization.

[Curtis24]

The Greeks were black too. Or didn't you know?

[GeistFaust]

The Greeks were black too. Or didn't you know?

I don't know how the Greeks have anything to do with the Ancient Egyptians. A great deal of the Greek influences on Egypt was cultural after Alexander came through. That only lasted a short time until the Selucid Empire closed in on the Ptomelic one in Egypt.


Also Islam would take complete dominance over that area after a while. There is a sort of historical legend among others that there was a black skinned people that lived around the Black Sea, I probably trust the sources just as much as I do concerning the substatrum of some Germanic and Celtic languages having an African root.

[Curtis24]

I don't know how the Greeks have anything to do with the Ancient Egyptians. A great deal of the Greek influences on Egypt was cultural after Alexander came through. That only lasted a short time until the Selucid Empire closed in on the Ptomelic one in Egypt.


Also Islam would take complete dominance over that area after a while. There is a sort of historical legend among others that there was a black skinned people that lived around the Black Sea, I probably trust the sources just as much as I do concerning the substatrum of some Germanic and Celtic languages having an African root.

The Afrocentrists have written a book called "Black Athena"

[Turul]

The Afrocentrists have written a book called "Black Athena"

Yes, I heard about that. And the first time I did I laughed so hard that the hot tea I was sipping came out my nose. Burned like Hades too...

It's all those black statues you see, clearly depicting the Greeks in their true Nubian form. ;)

http://www.hellenic-art.com/statues/

[AFC_Lad]

Not very knowledgeable on this, or to begin with to use the correct terminology, this being said.. i noticed some historic egyptian artifacts with blue eyes, and some european features, and i'm not exactly sure, but i believe the R1B blood type is european of origin if i'm not mistaken? and there was an egyptian queen or pharaoh who was traced to have that exact blood type.

I think egypt was a confederation of different tribes and people in control, most commonly the caucasians were the ones running things, but i don't deny the fact that some semites and africans also played a role in ancient egypt also.

As for the greeks, some of their ancient pottery indicate that some of the modern greeks who look darker etc, do actually resemble some of the modern greeks.. i've seen plenty of greek warriors on greek pottery who look almost identical to this greek defender for liverpool. I know a lot of Greeks here in london.. while some do resemble Kyrigiakos, some others look like western europeans.. and others like turks or arabs.

http://www.bundesliga.de/media/images/00_vereinsbilder/wolfsburg/kyrgiakos_geste_389.jpg

[Fernando]

Were they predominantly...

A) Middle Easterners/North Africans

B) European Mediterraneans

C) European Nordics

D) Black Negroid Africans

Cast your votes. In my personal opinion they were probably option A, option D is the least likely from my perspective.

[Redar14]

Most ancient Egyptians were semitic people, it's obvious.

[Raskolnikov]

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1736/23648ancientegyptians.jpg

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/286/egyptians.jpg

(+ blacks)

[Eva]

If you mean Semitic people with Levantines/Arabs/Mesopotamians then you are wrong Ancient Egyptians probably belonged to haplogroup E and T and despite this they were somewhat different in phenotype from their Semitic neighbours especially their remarkable eyeshape

King Tut reconstruction
http://images.sciencedaily.com/2005/05/050511133510.jpg

So the most likely option is North African Caucasoids.

I think they belonged to the Caucasoid race, but King Tut is not a good example of a native Egyptian because according to many historical data, the 18th dynasty (beginning with Thutmosis IV who married a Hurrian princess) was mostly of Hurrian ancestry, including King Tut.

[Odoacer]

Egyptians seem to have been Caucasoids of some sort, yet sufficiently distinct that they distinguished themselves quite clearly from other North Africans (here, a Libyan on the far left) & Semites (a Syrian 3rd from left):

http://www.studenthandouts.com/1-Student-Handouts/Egyptian-Depictions-of-Ethnic-Groups.jpg

Another example:

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8011/remetwaamwneheswtemehwkvf1.jpg

[poiuytrewq0987]

One of them North Africans before they heavily intermixed with blacks and Arabs like Berbers.

[Redar14]

If you mean Semitic people with Levantines/Arabs/Mesopotamians then you are wrong Ancient Egyptians probably belonged to haplogroup E and T and despite this they were somewhat different in phenotype from their Semitic neighbours especially their remarkable eyeshape

King Tut reconstruction
http://images.sciencedaily.com/2005/05/050511133510.jpg

So the most likely option is North African Caucasoids.


I know about it. Semitic people differ from each other.

[Ouistreham]

The ancient Egyptians were Oriental Mediterraneans who belonged to a Hamitic culture, thereby closely akin to the Berbers and other North Africans who withstood Arabization, and possibly to pre-IE populations of Western Europe.

North-Africa (including Ethiopia) and Western Europe shared in common a very rich Megalithic culture. Ancient Egyptian civilization may be seen as an evolved Megalithic culture, the only one of its kind.

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

Egyptians seem to have been Caucasoids of some sort, yet sufficiently distinct that they distinguished themselves quite clearly from other North Africans (here, a Libyan on the far left) & Semites (a Syrian 3rd from left):

http://www.studenthandouts.com/1-Student-Handouts/Egyptian-Depictions-of-Ethnic-Groups.jpg

Another example:

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8011/remetwaamwneheswtemehwkvf1.jpg

In the lower row in the second image, are those bearded guys who are slightly lighter, the last 2 ones, egyptians as well? Those seem depicted more heavily bearded than even Lybians or Semites.

EDIT:Nevermind, judging by the skirt they seem to be Syrians as well. Why the syrians are way darker in the second image?

[Bloodraven]

EDIT:Nevermind, judging by the skirt they seem to be Syrians as well. Why the syrians are way darker in the second image?

Tan.

[Fernando]

Such honest poll results. It is indeed a testament to how (most) peoples of European descent respect other civilizations and do not feel the need to claim other group's great civilizations for their own unlike a certain other group, black Africans.

[Peyrol]

Were they predominantly...

A) Middle Easterners/North Africans

B) European Mediterraneans

C) European Nordics

D) Black Negroid Africans

Cast your votes. In my personal opinion they were probably option A, option D is the least likely from my perspective.


Arabid/berberid people with a few mediterraneans.

[Odoacer]

EDIT:Nevermind, judging by the skirt they seem to be Syrians as well. Why the syrians are way darker in the second image?

Not sure, but the level of color saturation differs between the two digital images, so that plays a role in the variation. Here's another image showing Syrians:

http://sarabe3.tripod.com/images/image021.jpg

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

Not sure, but the level of color saturation differs between the two digital images, so that plays a role in the variation. Here's another image showing Syrians:

http://sarabe3.tripod.com/images/image021.jpg

It's likely the Egyptians were not much different than Syrians then. To what ethnic group these Syrians refer to? "Assyrians" of Sargon?

I find it curious the Lybians are so fair though. Modern Lybians are not noticeably lighter than Egyptians.

[Odoacer]

It's likely the Egyptians were not much different than Syrians then. To what ethnic group these Syrians refer to? "Assyrians" of Sargon?

Well, the Egyptians are depicted as being somewhat darker than the Syrians. Most likely the Syrians are Canaanites.


I find it curious the Lybians are so fair though. Modern Lybians are not noticeably lighter than Egyptians.

Indeed. Lots of race-mixing in the intervening millennia? Hard to say for certain. :shrug:

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

Well, the Egyptians are depicted as being somewhat darker than the Syrians. Most likely the Syrians are Canaanites.



Indeed. Lots of race-mixing in the intervening millennia? Hard to say for certain. :shrug:

It still does not make sense for a population to be that fair compared to the other being so geographically close and in a similar climate.

[The Journeyman]

I think keeping in mind the anthropometry exhibited in their artwork is key. All cultures tend to gravitate towards an ideal or common physique in their depictions of themselves. Most of the Egyptians look tall and gracile and lack body hair. Assyrians portray themselves as much more robust and having much hair.

http://dalje.com/slike/slike_3/r2/g2008/m10/y30183993937669823.jpg

[Svartálfar]

They were they own race somewhere between Eastmeds and Berids, but closer to the latter.

[The Journeyman]

They were they own race somewhere between Eastmeds and Berids, but closer to the latter.

Skulls or gtfo

[Svartálfar]

Skulls or gtfo

Read March of Titans.

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

Read March of Titans.

:lol00002::lol00002: You have to be kidding.

[Peyrol]

It's likely the Egyptians were not much different than Syrians then. To what ethnic group these Syrians refer to? "Assyrians" of Sargon?

I find it curious the Lybians are so fair though. Modern Lybians are not noticeably lighter than Egyptians.

"Lighter" lybians have ofter italian roots from the colonial times.

Don't forget that in 1939 italians constitutes 23% of Lybian population.

[Vasconcelos]

Read March of Titans.

That's your source? :rofl:

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

"Lighter" lybians have ofter italian roots from the colonial times.

Don't forget that in 1939 italians constitutes 23% of Lybian population.

LOL you think 2000 years BC Lybians have often Italian roots from colonial times? :D

[Peyrol]

LOL you think 2000 years BC Lybians have often Italian roots from colonial times? :D

I'm referring to your post about darker actual lybians

[Pallantides]

Read March of Titans.

Haha, oh man I almost died laughing, you my friend have a wicked sense of humor, I like that!:)

[Aces High]

They were from Atlantis.....go to 1:00 and listen.

Donovan says so and that seals it for me.

leI7sfmipuI

[gold_fenix]

the easiest explication will be the were berbers, the native people of North Africa, berbers are considered dark caucasoid and probably with the time they mix with congoid and people from mediterranean zone

Respect to Atlantis , it is mentionated in all his history as the place where they came

[Bakura]

Ancient Egyptians were White Caucasoids, probably Mediterraneans and even some Nordics in upper class society and royal families, blue eyes among some modern Egyptian exactly proves it.

[Redar14]

Ancient Egyptians were White Caucasoids, probably Mediterraneans and even some Nordics in upper class society and royal families, blue eyes among some modern Egyptian exactly proves it.

How do you know about it?

[Vasconcelos]

March of the Titans, cazzo!

[Artek]

Ancient Egyptians were White Caucasoids, probably Mediterraneans and even some Nordics in upper class society and royal families, blue eyes among some modern Egyptian exactly proves it.
It doesn't explain anything to me.

[Bakura]

5Vg2BMkEjR0

http://aryanarchaeology.blogspot.com/2011/12/aryan-nordic-egypt-part-i.html

http://aryanarchaeology.blogspot.com/2011/12/aryan-nordic-egypt-part-ii.html

[Artek]

Y-DNA doesn't make anyone Nordid. R1b is also among Negroids in Cameroon...
Post something more convincing

[Damião de Góis]

5Vg2BMkEjR0


So king Tut has the same haplogroup as 70% of british men, 60% so french men and 70% of spanish men. They are obviously talking about R1b, but which kind? Does king Tut's R1b even exist in Europe?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_x6Y4ZgFsZdY/THgPi2xnlbI/AAAAAAAAAZA/fQ9CRVXNv2A/s1600/R1b+sub-structure+V2.png

[Bakura]

http://aryanarchaeology.blogspot.com/2011/12/aryan-nordic-egypt-part-i.html

http://aryanarchaeology.blogspot.com/2011/12/aryan-nordic-egypt-part-ii.html

Did you read that?

[Artek]

Aryan (Nordic) Egypt Part I
I have stopped reading after that ;D

[Peyrol]

Ancient Egyptians were White Caucasoids, probably Mediterraneans and even some Nordics in upper class society and royal families, blue eyes among some modern Egyptian exactly proves it.

Natural Blue-eyed ethiopian (this isn't a illness)

http://www.robyrossi.it/intranet/immagini/82/w320/img82-01-1.jpg

Robert Mugabe's grey eyes

http://photo.worldnews.com/PhotoArchive//uploaded/uploaded-20919_large.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/ilove/years/1988/gallery/340/mugabe.jpg

Nigerian woman from hausa people with grey eyes

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/58/196283965_5e79f9eb26_z.jpg?zz=1

Blue eyed moroccan berber from Sahrawhi
http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.3720764.8720/flat,550x550,075,f.jpg

Blonde algerian guy (khabilian)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Berberboypd1.jpg

Moroccan woman

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/8456673-md.jpg






So, for you all these people have "nordic" ancestors? :laugh:

[Sikeliot]

I disagree with all of the choices. I would say something between Levantines and Ethiopians (So basically West Asian/East African).

[Bakura]

So, for you all these people have "nordic" ancestors? :laugh:

Yes they probably have, but mixed. Everyone who have some Nordid trait, logically that have some Nordid ancestor or ancestors. For example, how I can be white if I didn't descended from whites? Race is genetically inherited.

[Supreme American]

What is odd is how a number of statutes of Pharaohs have negroidal features, yet the mummies of the same Pharaohs don't show it. Ramses II is an example:

Statue link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RamsesIIEgypt.jpg)

Look at this guy's natural light hair:

Mummy link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RAMmummy.jpg)

[Peyrol]

Yes they probably have, but mixed. Everyone who have some Nordid trait, logically that have some Nordid ancestor or ancestors. For example, how I can be white if I didn't descended from whites? Race is genetically inherited.

Can you explain me how nordid populations could have reached ancient Zimbabwe, Ethiopia or the Hausa people (Nigeria)?

[Hurrem sultana]

Middle Easterners/Caucasoid North Africans of course

[Bakura]

Can you explain me how nordid populations could have reached ancient Zimbabwe, Ethiopia or the Hausa people (Nigeria)?

Nordic peoples were expand worldwide, from America to India and Tibet. There is a few maps.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_2.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_3.jpg

[EvilDave]

I think they were mostly Berberid , and maybe there were also some Atlantid,Mediterranid and Arabid elements .

[Damião de Góis]

Nordic peoples were expand worldwide, from America to India and Tibet. There is a few maps.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_2.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_3.jpg

I never knew that the welsh and morrocans were once the same people. Also i didn't know that someone considered the Alans as "continental nordics".

[Peyrol]

Umbrians in Austria? :laugh:

[Aces High]

Cleopatra was Greek....just saying.

[Eva]

well, even if ancient Egyptians were Indo-Europeans, it does not mean they had to be necessarily Nordics, and living in north Africa climate, of course, would affect their looks. If we take into account that a little downwards there are all black people, how could they look the same as the Indo-Europeans that went to live north in the ices?
Though i think they still looked Caucasoid and were not of the same stock as other populations of Africa, or could be a little bit mixed with them.

[Heartie]

have you ever seen an egyptian mummy? They all look like north africans.

[Padre Organtino]

Certainly not Sub Saharan Africans. Most probably people alike Copts but without Black admixture.

[Osweo]

(here, a Libyan on the far left) http://www.studenthandouts.com/1-Student-Handouts/Egyptian-Depictions-of-Ethnic-Groups.jpg

Another example:

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8011/remetwaamwneheswtemehwkvf1.jpg

Ah, I see where the Colonel got his dress sense from, now. :strokebeard:

[StonyArabia]

They were Middle Eastern and North Caucasian peoples with some infusion of European Meds and probably some limited influence from outside sources as well. As well the Ancient Egyptians were Afro-Asiatic peoples distant kin to the Semites. The language of the Copts is the direct descendant of Egyptians.

http://s14.postimage.org/kadussei9/800px_Copts_Collage.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image hosting png (http://postimage.org/)

http://s13.postimage.org/ppvrl8ktj/466px_Fayum_01.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image hosting jpeg (http://postimage.org/)

[SwordoftheVistula]

Ordinary people, likely similar to rest of middle east.

Ruling elites, at times resembling those we now associate with various parts of Europe, then becoming mixed over time.

[Artek]

Nordic peoples were expand worldwide, from America to India and Tibet. There is a few maps.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_2.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_3.jpg
This map is such a bullshit.
Slavic "Alpines", hahahaha :rotfl:

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

This map is such a bullshit.
Slavic "Alpines", hahahaha :rotfl:

Most of Turkey is Alpine :lol00002:

[Padre Organtino]

According to this wonderful map North Caucasians are sub-nordids.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRMjgFuL8ctW5fs3V1jlWSY9puAsEZ3R HlOnvhXN6JTF_hT4ypAtwb3oX6rLw

[Bakura]

This map is such a bullshit.
Slavic "Alpines", hahahaha :rotfl:


Most of Turkey is Alpine :lol00002:


According to this wonderful map North Caucasians are sub-nordids.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRMjgFuL8ctW5fs3V1jlWSY9puAsEZ3R HlOnvhXN6JTF_hT4ypAtwb3oX6rLw

Read more carefully, these maps are presents racial distribution in ancient times, not modern.

[Artek]

Read more carefully, these maps are presents racial distribution in ancient times, not modern.
At ancient times, as you are saying, Mediterranean and Nordid types were more common in those "alpine" areas.

[Padre Organtino]

Read more carefully, these maps are presents racial distribution in ancient times, not modern.

Nordids have never been widely present in Noth Caucasus, trust me. At most there's been a minor Crom input into locals, that's all. Not to mention that before Dinarization Caucasus natives were Dolyhocephalic.

I'm not even going to point out inaccuracies with regards to Europe - there are too many.

[Mordid]

Read more carefully, these maps are presents racial distribution in ancient times, not modern.
You are as useful as jokes.

[Bakura]

You are as useful as jokes.

You are as useful as nothing. If you are really better antropologist than Medison Grant, why you don't write your own book.

[Saruman]

Read more carefully, these maps are presents racial distribution in ancient times, not modern.

And they are wrong for both modern and ancient times.

[Mordid]

You are as useful as nothing. If you are really better antropologist than Medison Grant, why you don't write your own book.
Because I'm busy dating your hawt sister.

[Bakura]

Either way, this is topic about ancient Egyptians not about blue-eyed negroes or correctness of some maps. They very for sure were mediteraneans because of significant part of modern Egyptians are still meds while part of them are mixed with Arabs and they weren't East Africans, Negroes, Mongoloids, Indo-Brachids or Shiptars like some people want to belive.

[Saruman]

Egyptian singer Amr Diab and a woman from this video (nice song!:D) of his.
Both pred. Cromagnid (Berberid).

-hOMAUH4fvc

[Svartálfar]

I don't understand why people keep posting photos of modern Egyptians, when it's obvious that modern Egyptian are mixed with negroids and semites.

[Eva]

Copts are the most credible descendants of ancient Egyptians, and they don't mix with Arabs... so look at them and decide who ancient Egyptians were :)

Btw. there are being done studies on links of the ancient Egyptian language and Indo-European languages, the studies are in process, so the outcome is not known yet.

[Svartálfar]

Copts are the most credible descendants of ancient Egyptians, and they don't mix with Arabs... so look at them and decide who ancient Egyptians were :)


Egyptians/copts look like their muslim brothers.

[Bakura]

haha why are you deviating from your claims nobody here said Egyptians were

all we saw here was your nonsensical intrusion in this thread so don't blame the others.

Not here, but I speak in general. There's in Serbia exist one ethnic group made by mixing between Albanians and Gypsies and they call themselves 'Egyptians'. Also there's a lot afrocentrists which claim that ancient Egyptians were negroes and that ancient Egypt are part of black culture and history. Generally, there's a lot incorrect theories about ancient Egyptians. The main problem arises when someone mentions Igenea's genetic researches or "March Of The Titans" as proves of White ancient Egypt. Probably, "LoL" or "xD" are your strongest arguments against Igenea's genetic researches and glorious book 'March Of The Titans', because most of you don't have any better argument.

[Eva]

Egyptians/copts look like their muslim brothers.

I'm not sure they are brothers.

[StonyArabia]

Not here, but I speak in general. There's in Serbia exist one ethnic group made by mixing between Albanians and Gypsies and they call themselves 'Egyptians'. Also there's a lot afrocentrists which claim that ancient Egyptians were negroes and that ancient Egypt are part of black culture and history. Generally, there's a lot incorrect theories about ancient Egyptians. The main problem arises when someone mentions Igenea's genetic researches or "March Of The Titans" as proves of White ancient Egypt. Probably, "LoL" or "xD" are your strongest arguments against Igenea's genetic researches and glorious book 'March Of The Titans', because most of you don't have any better argument.

a Serb supporting March of Titans what irony

[Transhumanist]

It's likely the Egyptians were not much different than Syrians then. To what ethnic group these Syrians refer to? "Assyrians" of Sargon?

Thank you for the "Assyrians." Sargon was an Akkadian. As was his grandson, Naram-Sin. Some believe the bust of Sargon of Akkad was the likeness of Naram-Sin.

The Neo Assyrian ruling class may have been descended principally from the Middle Assyrian ruling class. Whether the Middle Assyrians were descended, in significant part, from the Old Assyrian ruling class is a different matter. Now, if we go back to Sargon (the Akkadian), who is even further removed in time, and whose expansions may have contributed to the Semitization of northern Mesopotamia, the matter is even further complicated.

I also believe it is not best to use images of the ruling classes of populations, as measures of the populations in general.

Nefertiti, it is believed by some, was part Mitanni. A quarter, half, or less, I do not know.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Nofretete_Neues_Museum.jpg/409px-Nofretete_Neues_Museum.jpg

[StonyArabia]

The Arabian impact is not significant in most of North Africa, and this includes Egypt. As well Egypt was fully Arabized in the 15th and later in the 19th century. The Egyptians were Middle Eastern and North African Caucasoid who mixed to some people around the Med, and with limited outside sources. Coptic is not Indo-European it's an Afro-Asiatic tongue and show distant kinship to Semitic.

The only area in the Middle East that are heavily Arabian are Jordan and Iraq. Where Jordanians and Iraqis cluster with Saudis and Yemenite Jews.

[Transhumanist]

The only area in the Middle East that are heavily Arabian are Jordan and Iraq.

Today, sure. But, do you mean to suggest the same was the case in Antiquity?

If so, I would ask you to compare the values of the different Middle East populations. And, the most recent analysis by Dienekes, on Afroasiatic groups.

[StonyArabia]

Today, sure. But, do you mean to suggest the same was the case in Antiquity?

Not at all at least in the case of Iraq. We know that Iraq was changed due to the Mongol and Timuird who practiced depopulation and have in fact exterminated large amount of the population. This depopulated Iraq was attractive to the Bedouin tribes who at times adopted Sunni and forming an alliance with the Ottomans, well the others adopted the Shia creed and were allies of the Persians. This why there is genetic differences between Northern Iraqis especially those of non-Kurdish origins to that of Central and Southern Iraqis who are Arabian.

In Jordan's case it's more difficult to pin point, because Jordan seem to have always been an Arabian origin. The Arabian peoples like the Midianites Nabateans, and Liyhanites were always native to that region.

[Eva]

Not here, but I speak in general. There's in Serbia exist one ethnic group made by mixing between Albanians and Gypsies and they call themselves 'Egyptians'. Also there's a lot afrocentrists which claim that ancient Egyptians were negroes and that ancient Egypt are part of black culture and history. Generally, there's a lot incorrect theories about ancient Egyptians. The main problem arises when someone mentions Igenea's genetic researches or "March Of The Titans" as proves of White ancient Egypt. Probably, "LoL" or "xD" are your strongest arguments against Igenea's genetic researches and glorious book 'March Of The Titans', because most of you don't have any better argument.

Jeremija, and what proofs are there in that book? I'm really interested. I haven't read it.

[Eva]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Nofretete_Neues_Museum.jpg/409px-Nofretete_Neues_Museum.jpg

Can you classify Nefertiti?

[Bakura]

Jeremija, and what proofs are there in that book? I'm really interested. I haven't read it.

ullNZ98NXmo

[Bakura]

a Serb supporting March of Titans what irony

Circassian on European preservation community forum? What's irony.

[Vasconcelos]

Dude using March of the Titans as a source is pathetic, go away lol

[Transhumanist]

Tan.

Yeah. I have a rather fair complexion, when not exposed to the sun. However, in the summer months, I can get fairly tan. See photo below. Disregard the stupid expression, disheveled hair, and baby fat cheeks. :) Passport photo, taken when I was 12, I think.

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g326/dok101/humanist_13.jpg

[Bakura]

Dude using March of the Titans as a source is pathetic, go away lol

Why is using March of the Titans as a source is pathetic and why I should go away? It's what I'm talking about, no one have real counter arguments against, just "it's pathetic" or "go away". Honestly I didn't read that book, just watch some March of the Titans videos on youtube and read some blogs which links I posted here on thread. These afrocentrist and liberal theories that ancient Egyptians were Negroes and Arabs are just bunch of non-senses.

[Damião de Góis]

Why is using March of the Titans as a source is pathetic and why I should go away? It's what I'm talking about, no one have real counter arguments against, just "it's pathetic" or "go away". Honestly I didn't read that book, just watch some March of the Titans videos on youtube and read some blogs which links I posted here on thread. These afrocentrist and liberal theories that ancient Egyptians were Negroes and Arabs are just bunch of non-senses.

It is a pathetic book. I can give you examples of what was written about my country. Basically Arthur Kemp used my country as an example of faillure and as a warning to America because we were once great then fell because of race mixing with slaves. He wrote the most absurd lies, like that we were "largelly gothic" when we were doing all those sea voyages but then later became a nation of mulatos, or that we are largelly illiterate and with a high infant mortality rate and spend the days mourning about our lost glory.


Now, i don't care about what this piece of shit has to say about race mixing, but i think he can do it without spreading lies about other nations.

http://www.nothingbritish.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Arthur-Kemp-2.jpg


Also, i have no idea why you have the need to "claim Egypt". Don't you have enough to be proud of as an european?

[Sikeliot]

If ancient Egyptians were Berbers or Berber-like, why today do Egyptians cluster differently than Berbers genetically and in their ancient depictions they also clearly differentiated themselves from NW Africans?

[Svartálfar]

If ancient Egyptians were Berbers or Berber-like, why today do Egyptians cluster differently than Berbers genetically

Modern Egyptians have more Southwest Asian/West Asian admixture than Berbers.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/West-Asian-admixture.gif

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Southwest-Asian-admixture.gif

[StonyArabia]

Now, i don't care about what this piece of shit has to say about race mixing, but i think he can do it without spreading lies about other nations.

http://www.nothingbritish.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Arthur-Kemp-2.jpg

He also claims that the Slavic look is a mixture of Mongol/European and the Med look in Southern Europe is Arabic or Semitic mixed with European. A total moron. Not only that, he claims the Ottomans were Semitic, when they were not, the Khazars from Turkey when they were not. The errors in that book are embarrassing. It's basically not be taken seriously or used as legitimate source, most serious academics would scoff if not laugh at your face.

[Sikeliot]

Modern Egyptians have more Southwest Asian/West Asian admixture than Berbers.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/West-Asian-admixture.gif

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Southwest-Asian-admixture.gif


But you think that ancient Egyptians would have been more akin to say, today's Algerians and Tunisians who have more Berber ancestry than Egyptians now?

[Svartálfar]

But you think that ancient Egyptians would have been more akin to say, today's Algerians and Tunisians who have more Berber ancestry than Egyptians now?

Likely, but I'm not sure. I think that they were they own race somewhere between Eastmeds and Berids, but closer to the latter

[Sikeliot]

Likely, but I'm not sure. I think that they were they own race somewhere between Eastmeds and Berids, but closer to the latter

I am surprised no one here seems to agree with me that ancient Egyptians were a combination of Levantine/West Asian and Ethiopian elements.

http://www.nowlebanon.com/Library/Images/Uploaded%20Images/blog/SSNP-after-attack-blog1.jpg

+

http://media.santabanta.com/gal/mw2003/contestants/ethiopia1.jpg

=

http://www.enjoy-your-style.com/images/egyptian-soldiers.jpg