New paper about Albanians DNA and origins

[Dardanos]

A new paper about Albanians has been published today, similar to the last one but with more updates. It puts the final nail in the coffin of the last doubts. If someone is interested in reading it, here is the link:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.06.05.543790v2

[Alenka]

A new paper about Albanians has been published today, similar to the last one but with more updates. It puts the final nail in the coffin of the last doubts. If someone is interested in reading it, here is the link:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.06.05.543790v2
You mean the Caucasus theory?

What you posted is just a genetic study, so while it may prove genetic continuity, it still doesnt prove linguistic continuity.

Think of the Hungarians for example. They are genetically in a continuum with their neighbours, but the language they speak is from a faraway place.

Genetics alone may or may not tell the whole story.

[Dardanos]

You mean the Caucasus theory?

What you posted is just a genetic study, so while it may prove genetic continuity, it still doesnt prove linguistic continuity.

Think of the Hungarians for example. They are genetically in a continuum with their neighbours, but the language they speak is from a faraway place.

Genetics alone may or may not tell the whole story.

I was thinking more about the eastern Balkan origin of Albanians, but if you are still stuck with the Caucasus then good for you!

[Alenka]

I was thinking more about the eastern Balkan origin of Albanians, but if you are still stuck with the Caucasus then good for you!
Regardless, Eastern Balkan origin theory or Caucasus origin theory, thats besides the point.

The point is that genetic studies dont necessarily prove linguistic continuity.

[Dardanos]

You mean the Caucasus theory?

What you posted is just a genetic study, so while it may prove genetic continuity, it still doesnt prove linguistic continuity.

Think of the Hungarians for example. They are genetically in a continuum with their neighbours, but the language they speak is from a faraway place.

Genetics alone may or may not tell the whole story.

Hungarians are a very bad example because they have both Asiatic Y-DNA and admixture, in small numbers, but still present.

The Magyars were few in number and mostly part of the higher class, and most of them were killed by the Mongols and later finished by the Ottomans at Mohács.

I believe the Magyars only brought the name, while Hungarians are mostly descended from the Avars, who were a confederation made up largely of Slavs speaking Avaric.

This is also mostly proven by modern Hungarian DNA.

My point is, there is evidence linking Hungarians with Asia.

Good luck finding such a link with the ancestors of Albanians after the Yamnaya migration reached the Balkans.

[Dardanos]

Regardless, Eastern Balkan origin theory or Caucasus origin theory, thats besides the point.

The point is that genetic studies dont necessarily prove linguistic continuity.

Again, good luck finding anything that disproves the linguistic nativity of Albanians.

[Alenka]

Hungarians are a very bad example because they have both Asiatic Y-DNA and admixture, in small numbers, but still present.

The Magyars were few in number and mostly part of the higher class, and most of them were killed by the Mongols and later finished by the Ottomans at Mohács.

I believe the Magyars only brought the name, while Hungarians are mostly descended from the Avars, who were a confederation made up largely of Slavs speaking Avaric.

This is also mostly proven by modern Hungarian DNA.
Hmmm actually, the average Romanian for example has higher Mongoloid autosomal admix than the average Hungarian, according to Davidski.

As for Mongoloid Y-dna, Europes hotspot of Q is also not among the Hungarians, but among the Croats of island Hvar with about 14%.


My point is, there is evidence linking Hungarians with Asia.

Good luck finding such a link with the ancestors of Albanians after the Yamnaya migration reached the Balkans.
Speaking of evidence... well, well, well,... xD

143063

Albanians are from Caucasus, confirmed!!

[Alenka]

Again, good luck finding anything that disproves the linguistic nativity of Albanians.
I am not making any absolute claims, I simply think any possibility could be the case.
So, if you are claiming linguistic nativity of Albanians, then the burden of proof is on you.

[Dardanos]

Hmmm actually, the average Romanian for example has higher Mongoloid autosomal admix than the average Hungarian, according to Davidski.

As for Mongoloid Y-dna, Europes hotspot of Q is also not among the Hungarians, but among the Croats of island Hvar with about 14%.


Speaking of evidence... well, well, well,... xD

That's a known fact, Romanian absorbed a big chunk of Cumans, Bulgars, and Pechenegs.

But like I said, what do you want to prove with that?

Because Romanians have more Asiatic admixture than the one in Hungarians dismisses ?

Hungarians acknowledge in their national consensus that they migrated and arrived in the Pannonian Basin.

Now, according to your logic, there should be non-Balkan, non-Slavic, non-Germanic haplogroups found at least at 2-5% in Albanians for you to connect them, and not only that, they should appear in all Albanian regions, north, south, west, and east, for them to be considered core founders.

What is your best argument about the language?

-Indo-European

-Balkan Sprachbund

-Latin loanwords from different stages of Latin and later Italic languages

-Ancient Greek loanwords

-Celtic loanwords

-Gothic and Slavic loanwords

-Slavic loanwords are not affected by Gheg-Tosk sound shifts

-Christian terminology is entirely of Latin origin

-No signs of any foreign elements have been proven so far, except for the fantasies of people whose surnames end with -vić

[Dardanos]

I am not making any absolute claims, I simply think any possibility could be the case.
So, if you are claiming linguistic nativity of Albanians, then the burden of proof is on you.

I need to prove nothing, it’s pointless to debate people who don’t understand linguistics and believe in pseudo-science.

[Dardanos]

I am not making any absolute claims, I simply think any possibility could be the case.
So, if you are claiming linguistic nativity of Albanians, then the burden of proof is on you.

As far as I know, you are Slovenian with Kosovo Serbian ancestry.
So debating with you about the origin of Albanians is a bit pointless, because your personal bias could show at any time during the debate.

[Alenka]

What is your best argument about the language?

-Indo-European

-Balkan Sprachbund

-Latin loanwords from different stages of Latin and later Italic languages

-Ancient Greek loanwords

-Celtic loanwords

-Gothic and Slavic loanwords

-Slavic loanwords are not affected by Gheg-Tosk sound shifts

-Christian terminology is entirely of Latin origin

-No signs of any foreign elements have been proven so far, except for the fantasies of people whose surnames end with -vić
Yet, it remains unclear whether Albanian derives more from Thracian or Illyrian.

[Alenka]

As far as I know, you are Slovenian with Kosovo Serbian ancestry.
So debating with you about the origin of Albanians is a bit pointless, because your personal bias could show at any time during the debate.
Okay then.

But as far as I know, you are Albanian with Kosovo Albanian ancestry.
So debating with you about the origin of Albanians is a bit pointless also, because your personal bias could show at any time during the debate too.

Only neutral observers should be debating Albanian origins then, by your logic.

[Sulioti]

According to a recent study of 33 international scholars the Albanian Language is the oldest language alive of the indo-european family language.
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abg0818
https://www.science.org/cms/10.1126/science.abg0818/asset/ca8599bc-ef5a-471f-a37a-eb62b94b2278/assets/images/large/science.abg0818-fa.jpg

[Feiichy]

Great paper. What it says:

-Early Bronze Age Indo-Europeans in Albania came directly from Pontic steppe, they were Yamnaya proper and not Corded Ware (like in case of most of Europeans), EBA sample from Albania has high steppe ancestry, 70%, rest is local neolithic farmer.

-Later EEF ancestry increased and homogenized, LBA and early Iron Age samples from Albania were mostly EEF, with 30-40% steppe ancestry, and 0-5% Iran neo

-Albania IA was genetically clearly part of Illyrian core

-medieval Albanian samples remained basically unadmixed with incoming Slavs. They largerly kept Albania IA profile (Illyrian ancestry), however with significant minor admixture from either/or Thracians and Anatolians (11-32%)

-Slavic ancestry in Albanians most likely came from already Balkan admixed South Slavic populations, but could also be from unadmixed Slavs, or combination of the both, in any case unmixed Slavic input in Albanians is 10-20% and rather low

-Slavic ancestry peaks along Montenegrin border, in NE Albania and Kosovo and near Lake Ohrid (can go above 30% in such cases)

-modern day Albanians have strong IBD sharing with pre-Slavic west Balkan populations, and quite lower with East Balkan populations

-study increased Slavic input estimation for South Slavs, from 40% in north Macedonia to even 86% in parts of Croatia

-seems Slavic input in Albanians came from both sexes

[Feiichy]

During great migration era, ancestors of Albanians likely inhabited high mountains and plateus of western and central Balkans, largerly shielded from events that changed genetics of the entire region. Partial migrations from northern west Balkans is also not excluded, since modern Albos share IBD with even Croatian pre Slavic samples.

[Feiichy]

Illyrian genetics: 60% EEF, 20-40% steppe, 0-5% Iran N

Thracian and IA mainland Greek genetics: 75-80% EEF, 15-20% steppe, 5-10% Iran N

[Feiichy]

Medieval Albanian samples:

Albania_Medieval's ancestry came from an Albania_BA_IA-related population, with additional
255 admixture from Anatolian (16-32%) or Bulgaria_EIA-related (11-32%) sources (Table S4). The
256 Anatolian-related ancestry ranged from 16-21% with a Southeast Anatolian proxy and up to 32%
257 with West Anatolian Romans or Anatolian-admixed Roman Balkan samples (Table S4). It is
258 possible that Anatolian and Bulgaria_EIA-related sources were conflated by qpAdm, due to both
259 deriving most of their ancestry from EEFs (Table S3).
260 The Bulgaria-EIA-related ancestry showed lower p-values (p = 0.067) and higher standard errors
(0.101) which may indicate statistical uncertainty but cannot be used to reject this model42 261 .
262 Southeast Balkan-related ancestry could not be excluded, as f4-statistics of the form
263 f4(Cameroon_SMA, palaeo-Balkan sources; Albania_Medieval, Anatolian-admixed samples)
264 indicated very high allele sharing with Balkan populations when compared to Anatolian-admixed
265 individuals (Fig. S6; Table S6). In turn, f4-statistics suggested that Bulgaria_EIA-related sources
266 from the Roman period (Roman_Balkans_Thracian_profile) exhibited slightly higher allele
267 sharing with Albania_Medieval when compared against West Balkan individuals dating from the
268 Bronze Age to the Roman period (Fig. S6; Table S6).
269 To formally exclude the presence of East European-related ancestry in Albania_Medieval, we
270 further tested its ancestry using a qpAdm model that rotated among Roman era West and East
271 Balkan source populations, East European (CEE_Medieval), and Anatolian
272 (West_Anatolia_Roman) proxies. This analysis recovered Albania_Medieval once more as 100%
273 Roman West Balkan (Table S4), showing that the ancestors of this population were largely
274 shielded from the demographic upheavals of the Migration Period.

[Feiichy]

Well, based on this Albanians remained majority Illyrian in origins, with Slavic and Thracian/Anatolian admixture. E-V13 dominance in Kosovo is probably a result of founder effect/bottleneck.

[Dardanos]

Okay then.

But as far as I know, you are Albanian with Kosovo Albanian ancestry.
So debating with you about the origin of Albanians is a bit pointless also, because your personal bias could show at any time during the debate too.

Only neutral observers should be debating Albanian origins then, by your logic.

Yes, it's like that, that’s why bias exists.
Do you go to your family members who hate your guts and ask them what they think?

That’s how it works for us. I have never seen a positive text or publication made by Serbs about Albanians, mostly pseudo-science.

For example, there are plenty made by Greeks. The two best DNA papers about Albanians were written by Greeks.

One thing I have learned, never expect a positive debate about Albanians with someone whose surname ends with -vić.

[Varda]

One thing I have learned, never expect a positive debate about Albanians with someone whose surname ends with -vić.

ić

[Feiichy]

Hmmm actually, the average Romanian for example has higher Mongoloid autosomal admix than the average Hungarian, according to Davidski.

That's not true actually. Wallachians and Transylvanians have little to none mongoloid, it is Moldovans who have minor Turkic, and (some, it's not homogenously spread) Dobrogeans, due to assimilation of Tatars.

[Dardanos]

During great migration era, ancestors of Albanians likely inhabited high mountains and plateus of western and central Balkans, largerly shielded from events that changed genetics of the entire region. Partial migrations from northern west Balkans is also not excluded, since modern Albos share IBD with even Croatian pre Slavic samples.

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Albanians haven’t moved more than 100 km since the Bronze Age.

We were just pushed out of our homeland (the territories shown in the photos), likely by Goths or someone else. By the time the Slavs arrived, we were already in the Mat Valley, decimated and very few in number, just a dot in a sea of Slavs, Aromanians, and Greeks in the south.

My idea is that Albanians are Dardanians, while Romanians are mostly Moesians.

[Dardanos]

Well, based on this Albanians remained majority Illyrian in origins, with Slavic and Thracian/Anatolian admixture. E-V13 dominance in Kosovo is probably a result of founder effect/bottleneck.

Actually, the E-V13 is decreasing in every publication by the Albanian DNA Project.

I remember a time when it was 52% in Kosovo; now it’s 34%.

Overall, among Albanians, it is currently at 28%.

[Varda]

Actually, the E-V13 is decreasing in every publication by the Albanian DNA Project.

I remember a time when it was 52% in Kosovo; now it’s 34%.

Overall, among Albanians, it is currently at 28%.

Do you idea about deeper origin of this branch? https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y555619/

It is paternal line of my mother. She associate E-V13 with Shiptars xD. Due to such narrative in Serbian media for years by people with little to none knowledge about genetics, such as some journalists.

[Varda]

Do you idea about deeper origin of this branch? https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y555619/

It is paternal line of my mother. She associate E-V13 with Shiptars xD. Due to such narrative in Serbian media for years by people with little to none knowledge about genetics, such as some journalists.

Upstream there are 1 Romanian and 2 Albanians https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y189173/

Romanian Is from Teleorman. One Albanian is from Elbasan, and for other is not written.

[Dardanos]

Do you idea about deeper origin of this branch? https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y555619/

It is paternal line of my mother. She associate E-V13 with Shiptars xD. Due to such narrative in Serbian media for years by people with little to none knowledge about genetics, such as some journalists.

Most of you Croatian Serbs are from Montenegro, Macedonia, or Kosovo, so who knows what tribe or ethnicity was the paternal family of your mother.

But in those lands only Albanians and Vlachs lived(of non-slavs), so there lies your answer.

In E-C130593, the mother clade of the one you posted, there are 5 Albanians, 1 Serb, and 1 Croat.

They have different TMRCA values, but even Albanians with different E-V13 subclades have different TMRCA spans, so...

For the sake of being neutral, they are either Vlachs or Albanians.

[Varda]

Most of you Croatian Serbs are from Montenegro, Macedonia, or Kosovo, so who knows what tribe or ethnicity was the paternal family of your mother.

But in those lands only Albanians and Vlachs lived(of non-slavs), so there lies your answer.

In E-C130593, the mother clade of the one you posted, there are 5 Albanians, 1 Serb, and 1 Croat.

They have different TMRCA values, but even Albanians with different E-V13 subclades have different TMRCA spans, so...

For the sake of being neutral, they are either Vlachs or Albanians.

Out deeper origin is mostly from eastern Herzegovina, western Montenegro and western Raška (Sandžak).

This is the newest Y DNA statistic for the Serbs of Croatia by regions - Lika, northern Dalmatia, Kordun, Banija and Slavonia (from top to bottom).
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=143175&D=1756594600

In general Serbs from Croatia have for few percentage higher I2-Y3130 than Serbia Serbs, R1a is pretty similar, and E1b is for few % lower than among Serbia Serbs. E1b range by regions among Croatian Serbs is from 10.6% in Kordun to 16.1% in Slavonia. In Montenegro, among Kosovo Serbs and Macedonias E1b is significantly higher.

[Dušan]

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Albanians haven’t moved more than 100 km since the Bronze Age.

We were just pushed out of our homeland (the territories shown in the photos), likely by Goths or someone else. By the time the Slavs arrived, we were already in the Mat Valley, decimated and very few in number, just a dot in a sea of Slavs, Aromanians, and Greeks in the south.

My idea is that Albanians are Dardanians, while Romanians are mostly Moesians.

Are you aware of demoghraphic fact that 100 years ago your number in entire Balkans was only one million?
Your numbers were even smaller deeper in past.

You were the small tribe that left isolated in harsh mountains of Albania.
Talking about some "places of origin" all across Balkans is bullshit.

[Varda]

Are you aware of demoghraphic fact that 100 years ago your number in entire Balkans was only one million?
Your numbers were even smaller deeper in past.

You were the small tribe that left isolated in harsh mountains of Albania.
Talking about some "places of origin" all across Balkans is bullshit.

Certain number of islamized Albanians moved to Turkey in 19th and early 20th century, and large part of Orthodox ones was assimilatted in Greek nation (Arvanites) in the same period. But yes, even with those 'losses' Albanian were small ethnicity.

[Dušan]

Most of you Croatian Serbs are from Montenegro, Macedonia, or Kosovo, so who knows what tribe or ethnicity was the paternal family of your mother.

.


My pre-Slavic part is cca 70% Roman Dalmatia and 30% Roman Moesia - basically this.

https://i.imgur.com/cVZeZtr.jpeg

[Dušan]

Certain number of islamized Albanians moved to Turkey in 19th and early 20th century, and large part of Orthodox ones were assimilatted in Greek nation (Arvanites) in the same period. But yes, even with those 'losses' Albanian were small ethnicity.

There were 2 times more Serbs in Croatia, than Albanians in Serbia (Kosovo) in 1921. and 1931. censuses.

And we Кrajina Serbs were smaller community of Serbs (Serbs from Serbia and Bosnia were several times more numerous).

Then about what big Albanian people talk about?!

[Dušan]

One thing I have learned, never expect a positive debate about Albanians with someone whose surname ends with -vić.

Talking about -ić, Albanians dont have their own names for geographical terms in Kosovo, but use Serbian one.

Autocthonous people, my ass.


Radonjić Lake (Albanian: Liqeni i Radoniqit; Serbian: Радоњићко језеро/Radonjićko jezero) is a lake in Kosovo. After Gazivoda Lake, it is the second largest in the country at 5.62 km2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radoniq_lake

[Dardanos]

Are you aware of demoghraphic fact that 100 years ago your number in entire Balkans was only one million?
Your numbers were even smaller deeper in past.

You were the small tribe that left isolated in harsh mountains of Albania.
Talking about some "places of origin" all across Balkans is bullshit.

The population of Albanians changed through the years,

Every tribe started small, you have very weak arguments I swear.

Today there are more than 300 million Slavs, do you think that the proto-Slavs started with 5 million?

Or the Yamnaya or any other group?

Do you think that the Germanic tribes that conquered Europe were huge in numbers?

Most scholars agree that the population of the whole Arabian Peninsula in the 7th century before the birth of Islam was not more than a few thousand people, today there are more than 400 million Arabic-speaking people.

I swear Dusan, your arguments are so weak that sometimes it feels like I’m debating Novi Pazar.

[Dušan]

The population of Albanians changed through the years,

Every tribe started small, you have very weak arguments I swear.

Today there are more than 300 million Slavs, do you think that the proto-Slavs started with 5 million?

Or the Yamnaya or any other group?

Do you think that the Germanic tribes that conquered Europe were huge in numbers?

Most scholars agree that the population of the whole Arabian Peninsula in the 7th century before the birth of Islam was not more than a few thousand people, today there are more than 400 million Arabic-speaking people.

I swear Dusan, your arguments are so weak that sometimes it feels like I’m debating someone from Novi Pazar.

The point is, proto-Albanian area was much smaller than you try to present here.

[Dardanos]

There were 2 times more Serbs in Croatia, than Albanians in Serbia (Kosovo) in 1921. and 1931. censuses.

And we Кrajina Serbs were smaller community of Serbs (Serbs from Serbia and Bosnia were several times more numerous).

Then about what big Albanian people talk about?!

What are you talking about, there are more Albanians in Turkey today than there are Serbs in Bosnia, Croatia, and Montenegro combined.

If there had been no expulsion of Albanians after the Balkan Wars, there would be 8 to 10 million of us in the Balkans alone.

I am not even going to start talking about the Arvanites.

Most Western cartographers, based on Ottoman censuses, estimate the Albanian population in 1850 at 1.3 to 1.5 million, and the Serb population at 1.5 to 2.2 million within the Ottoman Empire, the Austrian Empire, and Serbia as an autonomous Ottoman tributary.

So the ratio was never as big as you like to pretend. :)

[Dardanos]

The point is, proto-Albanian area was much smaller than you try to present here.

But I don’t care what you say :)

There are plenty of Western scholars who agree with me.

Who are you going to cite, Klosov, Kaplan Burovic? Who is the best academic Western Albanologist you can cite?

Yourself?

[Dardanos]

Talking about -ić, Albanians dont have their own names for geographical terms in Kosovo, but use Serbian one.

Autocthonous people, my ass.


Radonjić Lake (Albanian: Liqeni i Radoniqit; Serbian: Радоњићко језеро/Radonjićko jezero) is a lake in Kosovo. After Gazivoda Lake, it is the second largest in the country at 5.62 km2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radoniq_lake

Of course we do, just under different agreements with the West, thay cannot be changed until Kosovo is properly recognized.

After that, it will be like in Greece.

How many old Slavic toponyms in Greece do you still remember?
It will just become old history, written in history books but forgotten among common people within a couple of generations, similar to how the Serbian language, once the older generation dies out, will be non-existent among young people.

[Dušan]

But I don’t care what you say :)

There are plenty of Western scholars who agree with me.

Who are you going to cite, Klosov, Kaplan Burovic? Who is the best academic Western Albanologist you can cite?

Yourself?

https://i.imgur.com/vVr6Z3q.png

https://hungarian-geography.hu/konyvtar/kiadv/FE2001/FE20011-4_161-190.pdf

[Dardanos]

https://i.imgur.com/vVr6Z3q.png

https://hungarian-geography.hu/konyvtar/kiadv/FE2001/FE20011-4_161-190.pdf

Read what it says slowly, it says between 1000 and 2000. When we talk about the origin of Albanians, we are talking about 0 to 500. So either you cannot read, or you are very dense in the head.

[Dardanos]

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Albanians haven’t moved more than 100 km since the Bronze Age.

We were just pushed out of our homeland (the territories shown in the photos), likely by Goths or someone else. By the time the Slavs arrived, we were already in the Mat Valley, decimated and very few in number, just a dot in a sea of Slavs, Aromanians, and Greeks in the south.

My idea is that Albanians are Dardanians, while Romanians are mostly Moesians.

My original comment, but it seems your comprehension skills are very low.

[Sulioti]

But I don’t care what you say :)

There are plenty of Western scholars who agree with me.

Who are you going to cite, Klosov, Kaplan Burovic? Who is the best academic Western Albanologist you can cite?

Yourself?
With these two idiots here, the discussion has already derailed. And this is just the beginning. Because later on, that other strange individual will come along and say that Mars was colonized by Serbs, or that Serbs came from Mars, or something like that.

[Dušan]

What are you talking about, there are more Albanians in Turkey today than there are Serbs in Bosnia, Croatia, and Montenegro combined.

If there had been no expulsion of Albanians after the Balkan Wars, there would be 8 to 10 million of us in the Balkans alone.

I am not even going to start talking about the Arvanites.

Most Western cartographers, based on Ottoman censuses, estimate the Albanian population in 1850 at 1.3 to 1.5 million, and the Serb population at 1.5 to 2.2 million within the Ottoman Empire, the Austrian Empire, and Serbia as an autonomous Ottoman tributary.

So the ratio was never as big as you like to pretend. :)

What expulsion after Balkan wars?
If there was any expulsion noone would remain, as did to Germans in 1945.

Numbers of Serbs in Balkans was cca 3 million in 1850.
There was 1 million in small area between Belgrade to Aleksinac that was newly formed principality of Serbia.

[Dušan]

We were just pushed out of our homeland (the territories shown in the photos), likely by Goths or someone else. By the time the Slavs arrived, we were already in the Mat Valley, decimated and very few in number, just a dot in a sea of Slavs, Aromanians, and Greeks in the south.


You were not "pushed out from your homeland", because it was not your homeland but of J2b-m205, Serbian subclades of E-V13, and other pre-Slavic people that were integrated into Serbs.

Your homeland is Mat Valley from where you start spreading all around.

[Dušan]

So the ratio was never as big as you like to pretend. :)

Peterski posted here data for Balkans in 1921.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?397924-Ethnic-groups-of-South-East-Europe



https://i.imgur.com/zJ9DCzc.png

There were 4 times more Serbs than Albanians in 1921.

4,819,000 Serbs vs 1,175,000 Albanians.

[Dardanos]

You were not "pushed out from your homeland", because it was not your homeland but of J2b-m205, Serbian subclades of E-V13, and other pre-Slavic people that were integrated into Serbs.

Your homeland is Mat Valley from where you start spreading all around.

With this comment, you just proved that you do not know enough about genetics.

Mat Valley was mostly a J2b2-L283 zone.

So explain the presence of R1b-Z2705 and E-V13, both of which originate in the central Balkans.

Bear in mind that both R1b-Z2705 and E-V13 have richer and far more subclades among Albanians than J2b2-L283.

Please explain that to me.

And secondly, if we go by the Jireček line, then congratulations, we just become Greeks. :)

You need better arguments than this, Dusko.

[Dardanos]

Peterski posted here data for Balkans in 1921.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?397924-Ethnic-groups-of-South-East-Europe



https://i.imgur.com/zJ9DCzc.png

There were 4 times more Serbs than Albanians in 1921.

4,819,000 Serbs vs 1,175,000 Albanians.

1850, it’s not 1921.

I never said anything about 1921, that’s after the Ottoman expulsions and the Balkan Wars, when most of the Balkan Muslims were expelled.

[Dardanos]

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Ohhh loook

[Dušan]

1850, it’s not 1921.

I never said anything about 1921, that’s after the Ottoman expulsions and the Balkan Wars, when most of the Balkan Muslims were expelled.

Census 1921. was after WW1 in which Serbia had over 700,000 casualties (275,000 military deaths and 450,000 civilians).

So no matter how much Albo moved to Turkey, ratio between Serbs and Albanians was 1:4.

[Dardanos]

Census 1921. was after WW1 in which Serbia had over 700,000 casualties (275,000 military deaths and 450,000 civilians).

So no matter how much Albo moved to Turkey, ratio between Serbs and Albanians was 1:4.

Serbs, because of Western industrialization after 1900, experienced a population increase similar to how Turkey went from 11 million in 1850 to 84.3 million in 2025.

The more food and security you could provide, the more people were being born.

I am not saying that Albanians had the same population as Serbs, but if those people who were expelled to Turkey had stayed, with the fertility rates we had, there would be a couple of million more of us in the Balkans today.

In WW1, no one forced the Serbs to kill the Archduke of Austria in Sarajevo,

while the Muslim Albanian population was forcibly expelled simply because they belonged to a different religion.

No one asked them if they wanted to stay behind.

Skopje and Niš had a Muslim majority before the Balkan Wars.

[Feiichy]

I am curious what were main Y haplogroups of Roman Anatolians?

[Dušan]

Serbs, because of Western industrialization after 1900, experienced a population increase similar to how Turkey went from 11 million in 1850 to 84.3 million in 2025.

The more food and security you could provide, the more people were being born.

I am not saying that Albanians had the same population as Serbs, but if those people who were expelled to Turkey had stayed, with the fertility rates we had, there would be a couple of million more of us in the Balkans today.

In WW1, no one forced the Serbs to kill the Archduke of Austria in Sarajevo,

while the Muslim Albanian population was forcibly expelled simply because they belonged to a different religion.

No one asked them if they wanted to stay behind.

Skopje and Niš had a Muslim majority before the Balkan Wars.

The same as you said if those people stay, I can say if these people are alive.
Also WW2 was tragic and bloody, especially for Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia.

Niš didnt have Muslim majority before Balkan wars.
Niš was liberated in 1878, but even before that had about half Serbian population.

The demographics of Niš underwent change whereby Serbs who formed half the urban population prior to 1878 became 80 percent in 1884.

[Dardanos]

I am curious what were main Y haplogroups of Roman Anatolians?

One of those was J2b-M205, the subclade J-Y22069, which has a TMRCA of 900 years. This makes the majority of J2b-M205 in the Balkans likely to have come from Syria through Anatolia.

[Varda]

I am curious what were main Y haplogroups of Roman Anatolians?


One of those was J2b-M205, the subclade J-Y22069, which has a TMRCA of 900 years. This makes the majority of J2b-M205 in the Balkans likely to have come from Syria through Anatolia.

Kriči (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriči) are J2b-M205>Y22059 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y22059/

Krči were not Albanians as Albo trolls wrote on Wiki, but Romance speaking Vlachs which are late slavized/serbified - in 14th century. Kriči Y DNA has peak in Lika and Banija Serbs. Western Bosnian Bosniaks also has incresed amount of Kriči paternal line. Durmitor has meaning on East Romance/Romanian, and Kriči lived around Durmitor. They most likely named Durmitor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durmitor
Kriči hoplotype probably came to the Balkans from Syria or Lebanon in the late Roman period with some soldier or merchant of Levantine origin.

[Dardanos]

Kriči (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriči) are J2b-M205>Y22059 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y22059/

Krči were not Albanians as Albo trolls wrote on Wiki, but Romance speaking Vlachs which are late slavized/serbified - in 14th century. Kriči Y DNA has peak in Lika and Banija Serbs. Western Bosnian Bosniaks also has incresed amount of Kriči paternal line. Durmitor has meaning on East Romance/Romanian, and Kriči lived around Durmitor. They most likely named Durmitor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durmitor
Kriči hoplotype probably came to the Balkans from Syria or Lebanon in the late Roman period with some soldier or merchant of Levantine origin.

Yeah, with the understanding I have,
I also agree that J2b-M205 were Vlachs and not Albanians.

[Feiichy]

One of those was J2b-M205, the subclade J-Y22069, which has a TMRCA of 900 years. This makes the majority of J2b-M205 in the Balkans likely to have come from Syria through Anatolia.

Anything else?

[Feiichy]

Estimation for Anatolian input in medieval Albanians is from 16-32%. So I wonder where are the rest of their YDNA, same I wonder for all Balkanites in general. Thracian input is similar, 11-32%, but that we can easily track with presence of E-V13 clades.

[Dardanos]

Estimation for Anatolian input in medieval Albanians is from 16-32%. So I wonder where are the rest of their YDNA, same I wonder for all Balkanites in general. Thracian input is similar, 11-32%, but that we can easily track with presence of E-V13 clades.

143181

[Dušan]

Kriči (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriči) are J2b-M205>Y22059 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y22059/

Krči were not Albanians as Albo trolls wrote on Wiki, but Romance speaking Vlachs which are late slavized/serbified - in 14th century. Kriči Y DNA has peak in Lika and Banija Serbs. Western Bosnian Bosniaks also has incresed amount of Kriči paternal line. Durmitor has meaning on East Romance/Romanian, and Kriči lived around Durmitor. They most likely named Durmitor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durmitor
Kriči hoplotype probably came to the Balkans from Syria or Lebanon in the late Roman period with some soldier or merchant of Levantine origin.

Also Serbian E-V13 subclades are different from Albanian one.

My maternal grandfather was probably E-V13 because someone with his surname and from his village got this haplogroup.

[Dardanos]

Estimation for Anatolian input in medieval Albanians is from 16-32%. So I wonder where are the rest of their YDNA, same I wonder for all Balkanites in general. Thracian input is similar, 11-32%, but that we can easily track with presence of E-V13 clades.

143182
Most likely the homeland where E-V13 originated.

[Feiichy]

I was kinda hoping for E-V13 or J2 (J2 is cool) on my maternal side. But I am I2 on both, kinda boring. From all men I tested, either close family or friends NOBODY got a southern Euro haplogroup except ex boyfriend (Croat) who is E-V13 (he was not pleased) and he shares same surname with my Serb ex, who is not E-V13.

[Feiichy]

143182
Most likely the homeland where E-V13 originated.

Makes perfect sense.

[Feiichy]

143181

yes, J1 is Roman mediated too! Thanks :)

[Varda]

Also Serbian EV-13 subclades are different from Albanian one.

My maternal grandfather was probably EV-13 because someone with his surname and from his village got this haplogroup.

How E-V13 came to the western Balkans since it was not present there in the Illyrians period?

1. With migrations from central and eastern Balkans to western Balkans in Roman period
2. With migrations from central and eastern Balkans in the early middle age in the time of Bulgar invasion of eastern/central Balkans
3. With migrations from eastern/central Balkans in the late middle age and early modern period because of Ottomans invasion

These would be main waves i would day. The oldest E-V13 sample in the western Balkans Is from Zadar from 1st century AD, it match with the establishment of Roman rule on Illyrian space.

[Varda]

How E-V13 came to the western Balkans since it was not present there in the Illyrians period?

1. With migrations from central and eastern Balkans to western Balkans in Roman period
2. With migrations from central and eastern Balkans in the early middle age in the time of Bulgar invasion of eastern/central Balkans
3. With migrations from eastern/central Balkans in the late middle age and early modern period because of Ottomans invasion

These would be main waves i would day. The oldest E-V13 sample in the western Balkans Is from Zadar from 1st century AD, it match with the establishment of Roman rule on Illyrian space.

Under the 1 would be Dardanian, Moesian and Thracian context, and under the 2 and partly 3 Vlach context.

[Opie]

I am curious what were main Y haplogroups of Roman Anatolians?

J2 and R1b I guess

[Dardanos]

How E-V13 came to the western Balkans since it was not present there in the Illyrians period?

1. With migrations from central and eastern Balkans to western Balkans in Roman period
2. With migrations from central and eastern Balkans in the early middle age in the time of Bulgar invasion of eastern/central Balkans
3. With migrations from eastern/central Balkans in the late middle age and early modern period because of Ottomans invasion

These would be main waves i would day. The oldest E-V13 sample in the western Balkans Is from Zadar from 1st century AD, it match with the establishment of Roman rule on Illyrian space.

Despite being one of the most frequent haplogroups in present-day Balkan populations, the origins of E-V13 remain enigmatic. The earliest records of this haplogroup in the Balkans are from the Early Iron Age in Bulgaria within a "Thracian" cultural context, at a frequency of 26% (Figs. 9A, B, S16), and in a Scythian from Moldova that plots close to Classical-era Balkan populations (Fig. 3A). Later, it appeared in Iron Age populations from Croatia and Hungary at lower frequencies (8%). By the early Roman era, populations rich in E-V13 likely experienced significant and rapid demographic growth, with this haplogroup appearing more frequently in areas where it was previously rare (Croatia, 15%) or unsampled (Serbia, >30%) (Fig. 10A, B).

Our findings suggest that the increased frequency of E-V13 between the Iron Age and the Roman period examined herein is frequently associated with samples having a fully or partially Bulgaria_EIA-related autosomal profile. Specifically, 39% of individuals carrying this haplogroup in Roman Serbia and Avar-era Hungary cluster with BA-IA populations from Bulgaria on the PCA (Fig. 5A) and are identified as cladal with a Bulgaria_EIA- or Mycenaean_BA-related source population in qpAdm models and D-statistics (Fig. S17, Tables S4, S6). A further 33% derive 24–70% of their ancestry from such a proxy (Fig. S17, Table S4). These E-V13-carrying individuals, along with another Scythian from Moldova who clusters with Balkan Iron Age populations (Fig. 3A), also display IBD-sharing with Bulgaria_EIA (Table S17). This may support historical records of "Thracian" groups, known as the "Bessi," and the "Moesians," present throughout the Balkans until the 6th century CE.

Furthermore, individuals from Roman Serbia cladal to Bulgaria_EIA show considerable diversity in E-V13 subclades (e.g., E-BY5490, E-FGC33621, E-BY5022, E-CTS9320; Table S22), suggesting either proximity to or inclusion in the epicenter of E-V13 diversity, or significant migrations from it. Notably, two individuals (15518, I15504) belong to subclade E-FGC33646 (Table S23), from which 3% of present-day Albanians descend. The autosomal profile associated with these results suggests that some E-V13 subclades in modern Albanians may originate from Bronze and Iron Age Balkan populations with an autosomal profile fully or partially related to Bulgaria_EIA. Whether this autosomal profile was found beyond the territory of present-day Bulgaria in pre-Roman times, such as the Carpathian Mountains or the Danubian basin, remains an open question.

However, not all populations with E-V13 were characterized by a Bulgaria_EIA-related autosomal profile. For example, two E-V13-bearing mercenaries from Himera in Sicily plot with West Balkan populations on the PCA (Fig. 3A), may derive large parts of their ancestry from BA Kosovo or Serbia (S1 Text, Table S4), and share IBD segments with both "Illyrians" (8.5 cM) and "Thracians" (11.5 cM) (Table S17). It is likely that these mercenaries originated from a Central Balkan zone of linguistic contact between "Illyrian" and "Daco-Thracian" groups, thereby displaying genetic affinities to both. Importantly, the E-V13 subclade found in one of the Himera mercenaries (E-CTS6377) is characterized by daughter branches from which another 7% of Albanians descend (Table S23). Additionally, two Roman individuals from Croatia (R3664, R3659) also harbored E-V13 (Table S22), despite the absence of Bulgaria_EIA-related ancestry. Furthermore, 50% of Roman-period individuals with E-V13 are modeled as deriving 15–80% of their ancestry from West or Central Balkan Bronze and Iron Age populations (Fig. S17).

The presence of E-V13 in the Himera individuals may indicate either: (1) early arrivals from more eastern areas whose Bulgaria_EIA-related ancestry became diluted, or (2) the IA/Roman-period spread of at least some E-V13 lineages from central/western regions, possibly with an autosomal profile intermediate between West and East Balkan groups. One candidate population are the "Dardanians," situated in the central part of the Balkans, influenced by other "Illyrians" in the West and by "Daco-Thracians" in the East. Supporting the second possibility, the BA/IA ties of modern Albanian E-V13 lineages generally point to regions north, rather than east, of the present-day Albanian-speaking area (Table S23). Based on these findings, it is possible that populations from which many Albanian-specific E-V13 subclades descend, regardless of linguistic affiliation, were largely or fully West Balkan autosomally during the Roman period.

To gain insights into the ethnogenesis of present-day Albanians, we plotted the mean YFull TMRCAs of Albanian-specific subclades of Paleo-Balkan (E-V13, J2b-Z638, R1b-BY611, R1b-PF7562, I-M223), Roman (J1), and Migration Period-related (I1, R1a-Z282) haplogroups found in present-day Albanians. Remarkably, all Paleo-Balkan haplogroups show a sudden and steep increase in subclade diversity between 200–800 CE, aligning with linguistic and historical hypotheses on the origins of Albanians, as well as our findings on the effective population size of the founding Albanian population.

Most Paleo-Balkan haplogroups show signs of severe bottlenecking from the Early Iron Age to Late Antiquity, while some E-V13 subclades exhibit a more continuous subclade diversification throughout the Iron Age. This trend suggests that some subclades of E-V13 may have followed a different demographic trajectory compared to those of J2b-Z638, R1b-BY611, R1b-PF7562, and I-M223, implying that they may have originated in different populations. Overall, the rate of diversification of all E-V13 Albanian-specific subclades increased significantly from 200 CE onwards, mirroring the pattern of other Albanian lineages. This may indicate that some E-V13 lineages merged and co-expanded with local populations during the Iron Age or early Roman period, which could explain the absence of E-V13 in the aDNA transect of Albania, despite it being the most common haplogroup in the present-day Albanian population.

Our re-analysis of the Y-chromosome of a low-coverage individual from 9th–10th century Dukat in Albania assigned his paternal lineage to haplogroup E-L539, possibly an indicator of E-V13 among early Albanians.

[majevica]

Also Serbian E-V13 subclades are different from Albanian one.

My maternal grandfather was probably E-V13 because someone with his surname and from his village got this haplogroup.

Agree, mine for example is Native Pannonian rather than Balkan

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y142744/

Closest matches

https://i.postimg.cc/ZK3sLG38/E.jpg (https://postimg.cc/7fHNHQKh)

[Varda]

yes, J1 is Roman mediated too! Thanks :)

Majority of J1 among Serbs is branch ZS9949 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-ZS9949/

J1-ZS9949 is from late medieval Herzegovinian vlach clan Vlahovići (from Ljubinje area)https://bs.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlasi_Vlahovići
J1-ZS9949 are Milorad Dodik, Zdravko Čolić, Nino Rešić (mislim/Bosniak singer) and Serbian noble family Sinobad from Knin. Dodik, Nino and Sinobadi are descendants of Vlahovići which migrated from Herzegovina to Krajina around 500 years ago, and Čolić is descendant of Vlahovići which stayed in Herzegovina. Father of Zdravko Čolić was born in village Vlahovići near Ljubinje.
J1-ZS9949 probably arrived to the Balkans from Middle East in Roman period, same as J2b-Y22059 of Kriči.

[hazmatnik]

I have bunch of Avars as ancient Y connections. Question is where they picked up E-V13, but many had southern autosomal profiles.

https://i.postimg.cc/QtPMKXSp/Screenshot-20250901-131734-Chrome.jpg (https://postimg.cc/nj4x6fyz)

[Dušan]

I have bunch of Avars as ancient Y connections. Question is where they picked up E-V13, but many had southern autosomal profiles.

https://i.postimg.cc/QtPMKXSp/Screenshot-20250901-131734-Chrome.jpg (https://postimg.cc/nj4x6fyz)

Jakovo 27297 - thats village 10 kilometers from Belgrade.

[Dušan]

Maybe we indeed absorbed some southern genetics in Pannonian basin, in our way to Balkans.

[Frotous]

Majority of J1 among Serbs is branch ZS9949 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-ZS9949/

J1-ZS9949 is from late medieval Herzegovinian vlach clan Vlahovići (from Ljubinje area)https://bs.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlasi_Vlahovići
J1-ZS9949 are Milorad Dodik, Zdravko Čolić, Nino Rešić (mislim/Bosniak singer) and Serbian noble family Sinobad from Knin. Dodik, Nino and Sinobadi are descendants of Vlahovići which migrated from Herzegovina to Krajina around 500 years ago, and Čolić is descendant of Vlahovići which stayed in Herzegovina. Father of Zdravko Čolić was born in village Vlahovići near Ljubinje.
J1-ZS9949 probably arrived to the Balkans from Middle East in Roman period, same as J2b-Y22059 of Kriči.

I know for J1 among Serbs and EV13

But what about this Eastern R1b?
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y225901/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FT49714/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY38894/

Both of these famous Serbian athletes have it
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dejan_Bodiroga
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ognjen_Koroman

[Varda]

I know for J1 among Serbs and EV13

But what about this Eastern R1b?
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y225901/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-FT49714/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY38894/

Both of these famous Serbian athletes have it
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dejan_Bodiroga
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ognjen_Koroman

E-V13 and most of R1b among Serbs are heritage of old Balkanic (pre-Roman) populations. Unlike J2b-M205 and J1 which arrived in Roman period from the Middle East/Levant.

[Dick]

Kriči (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriči) are J2b-M205>Y22059 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y22059/

Krči were not Albanians as Albo trolls wrote on Wiki, but Romance speaking Vlachs which are late slavized/serbified - in 14th century. Kriči Y DNA has peak in Lika and Banija Serbs. Western Bosnian Bosniaks also has incresed amount of Kriči paternal line. Durmitor has meaning on East Romance/Romanian, and Kriči lived around Durmitor. They most likely named Durmitor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durmitor
Kriči hoplotype probably came to the Balkans from Syria or Lebanon in the late Roman period with some soldier or merchant of Levantine origin.

Ojha

https://i.imgur.com/6RvhFN3.png
https://i.imgur.com/mgGptGI.png

[Peterski]

Dardanos,

Could you summarize the key results of the study? I currently don't have time to read the whole paper.

[Dardanos]

Dardanos,

Could you summarize the key results of the study? I currently don't have time to read the whole paper.



● Genetic Continuity and Local Ancestry:
The study analyzed over 6,000 ancient West Eurasian genomes and 74 newly sequenced present-day Albanians, revealing significant genetic continuity in Albania from the Late Bronze Age (LBA) and Iron Age (IA, 1100 BCE–150 CE) to the Early Medieval period (800–900 CE).
Present-day Albanians predominantly descend from Early Medieval inhabitants of Albania, predating their first historical mention in the 11th century CE. This is supported by principal component analysis (PCA) and identity-by-descent (IBD) analyses showing tight clustering of Medieval and modern Albanians with LBA/IA populations.

● Early Bronze Age (EBA) Ancestry and Haplogroups:
A single EBA individual from Çinamak, Albania (2663–2472 BCE), carried ~70% ancestry from Yamnaya steppe pastoralists, as determined by qpAdm and unsupervised ADMIXTURE analyses. The remaining ~30% ancestry was from local Early European Farmers (EEF).
This individual bore the Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b-M269, a hallmark of Pontic-Caspian steppe populations, suggesting a direct influx of Indo-European-related ancestry around 2700 BCE. This is consistent with archaeological evidence of steppe cultural links in Shkodër, Albania.
The DATES method estimated admixture between EEF and steppe populations at ~4 ± 2.5 generations before the individual’s time, indicating recent steppe migration.

● Bronze and Iron Age (BA-IA) Genetic Profile:
LBA and IA individuals from Çinamak, associated with the “Illyrian” cultural sphere, showed a homogenized ancestry profile: ~60% EEF, 30–40% steppe, and 0–5% Neolithic Iran (Iran_N) ancestry, based on qpAdm models.
PCA revealed a north-to-south genetic cline across the Balkans, with Albania_BA_IA individuals clustering with contemporary populations from Croatia, Montenegro, North Macedonia, and northern Greece.
IBD analysis identified shared genomic segments (8–10 cM) between Albania_BA_IA and populations from Croatia (Mon Sego, Gudnja cave, Veliki Vanik), Montenegro (MLBA), and North Macedonia (Valandovo), indicating genealogical connections within the “Illyrian” and “Paeonian” spheres.

● Medieval Albania as a Genetic Refugium:
Two Medieval Albanian samples (Shtikë, 889–989 CE; Kënetë, 773–885 CE) showed minimal genetic shift from LBA/IA populations, with 68–84% ancestry from Albania_BA_IA, 16–32% from Anatolian-related sources, and 11–32% from Bulgaria_EIA-related sources (qpAdm models).
These samples were largely unaffected by the Eastern European migrations that introduced 40–86% Eastern European ancestry in neighboring regions (Croatia, Montenegro, Serbia, North Macedonia).
A qpAdm model testing for East European ancestry (using CEE_Medieval as a proxy) found Albania_Medieval to be 100% Roman West Balkan, indicating isolation from Migration Period upheavals.

● Post-Medieval and Modern Albanian Ancestry:
Post-Medieval samples from Bardhoc (1400–1700 CE) and Pazhok (1527–1660 CE) generally clustered with Medieval Albanian samples, except for two outliers showing East European-related admixture.
The Pazhok outlier carried the Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a-CTS1211>BY33436, a lineage associated with Eastern European populations, indicating ~21% unadmixed or 25–32% admixed East European ancestry (qpAdm).
Among 74 present-day Albanians, 46% were cladal with West_Balkan_Roman_Medieval populations, with 4–32% East European-related admixture (averaging 10–20%). Higher admixture was observed in northern (GNW, 14–28%), northeastern (GNE, 16–30%), and Lake Ohrid (TDA, 16–32%) subpopulations, aligning with areas of historical Albanian-Slavic contact.
Some individuals (e.g., from TN and GNW) showed elevated East European ancestry (23–50% CEE_Medieval or 36–73% Montenegro_Medieval), suggesting localized admixture events.
L

● Y-Chromosome and mtDNA Haplogroup Analysis:
Analysis of 2,272 present-day Albanian men showed ~19% of paternal ancestry from Migration Period-associated Y-chromosome haplogroups (R1a-M417, I2a-M423, I1-M253), lower than in South Slavic populations (36–70%).
In 375 present-day Albanians, ~16% of mtDNA haplogroups were linked to Migration Period populations, potentially underestimated due to assimilation of paleo-Balkan and West Asian mtDNA lineages by incoming groups.
Medieval and Post-Medieval Balkan samples showed 26% paleo-Balkan and 38% Migration Period-related mtDNA haplogroups, contrasting with higher autosomal (40–86%) and Y-DNA (64%) East European contributions, suggesting differential lineage retention.

● Sex-Neutral Admixture:
Comparison of X-chromosome and autosomal ancestry proportions was inconclusive due to limited X-chromosome markers (4.6k vs. 1240k SNPs), but autosomal, Y-DNA, and mtDNA data consistently indicated ~10–20% East European-related ancestry in present-day Albanians, suggesting even admixture through both sexes.
This contrasts with higher East European ancestry in neighboring South Slavic populations, highlighting Albania’s relative genetic isolation.

● Admixture Timing and Dynamics:
The DATES method estimated East European-related admixture in present-day Albanians at 500–1400 years before present, aligning with increased Albanian-Slavic contact from the 11th century CE to the Ottoman period.
The complexity of admixture layers (involving South Slavic and unadmixed Albanian groups) may explain the wide range of estimated admixture dates.

● IBD and Genealogical Connections:
Optimized ancIBD analysis identified shared IBD segments (>8 cM for recent relationships, 5–6 cM for deeper connections) between Albania_BA_IA, Medieval, and present-day Albanians, confirming long-term continuity of West Balkan ancestry.
Connections were also found with Bronze/Iron Age populations from Croatia, Montenegro, and North Macedonia, reinforcing Albania’s central role in the West Balkan genetic landscape.

[Dardanos]

My favorite quotes from the paper:

143231
143232
143233
143234

[Varda]

^^
Serbs from SE Serbia have the highest R1b among Serbs, vast majority of their branches are so called eastern.

[Dardanos]

^^
Serbs from SE Serbia have the highest R1b among Serbs, vast majority of their branches are so called eastern.

Lost Dardanian brothers

[Dardanos]

Frotus is one of them. His paternal side shares the same origin as Albanians, but Serbian politics and nationalism have made him hate Albanians without realizing that he is our lost blood brother.

[Sulioti]

Frotus is one of them. His paternal side shares the same origin as Albanians, but Serbian politics and nationalism have made him hate Albanians without realizing that he is our lost blood brother.

Po cua qi robt moterqireve. Varu karin.

[Dardanos]

Po cua qi robt moterqireve. Varu karin.

Pak ma i grith dalin prej bolles tonë :) A e ke ba testin ti?

[Varda]

Frotus is one of them. His paternal side shares the same origin as Albanians, but Serbian politics and nationalism have made him hate Albanians without realizing that he is our lost blood brother.

What about this branch? https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY199059/

Vlade Divac belong to it. His son was tested.

[Dardanos]

What about this branch? https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY199059/

Vlade Divac belong to it. His son was tested.

Most likely a Dardanian who stayed behind in southern Serbia. The question is, when did these people adopt a Serbian identity? It could have happened anytime from around 900 AD up to the 16th or 17th century.

[Sulioti]

Pak ma i grith dalin prej bolles tonë :) A e ke ba testin ti?

Jo nuk e kam bere por kam qejf ta bej.

[Frotous]

Frotus is one of them. His paternal side shares the same origin as Albanians, but Serbian politics and nationalism have made him hate Albanians without realizing that he is our lost blood brother.

Maybe in your dreams, my autosmal DNA isn’t even close to Albanians, I am closest to Bosnian Serbs

If my maternal side was R1a does that mean I’m Russian? Don’t think so lol

Btw unironically I’m closer to Swedes genetically then Albanians

[Frotous]

Most likely a Dardanian who stayed behind in southern Serbia. The question is, when did these people adopt a Serbian identity? It could have happened anytime from around 900 AD up to the 16th or 17th century.

Back then “Albanians” didn’t exist as people

They were just Old-Balkanic people

So claiming that Serbs who have R1b, J2 and EV13 are Albanians don’t make any sense.

Serbs are genetically half Slavic half Balkanic..

[Dardanos]

Maybe in your dreams, my autosmal DNA isn’t even close to Albanians, I am closest to Bosnian Serbs

If my maternal side was R1a does that mean I’m Russian? Don’t think so lol

Btw unironically I’m closer to Swedes genetically then Albanians

Of course, after 300–1000 years of mixing exclusively with Serbs, your plot will look similar to theirs, just like an R1a Albanian will plot close to Albanians despite not having Albanian paternal origin.

Not scoring Albanians doesn’t mean anything. There are I1-M253 Albanians who show no trace of Germanic autosomal DNA, but that doesn’t deny the origin of their Y-DNA.

I didn’t say you are Albanian, I said your ancestors and the ancestors of Albanians were related.

It could have been 300 years, it could have been 1000.