Slavic Expansion

[Peterski]

This article was just published today so I thought that we can start a fresh thread about the Slavic Expansion.

Link:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-025-09437-6

Abstract

The second half of the first millennium CE in Central and Eastern Europe was accompanied by fundamental cultural and political transformations. This period of change is commonly associated with the appearance of the Slavs, which is supported by textual evidence1,2 and coincides with the emergence of similar archaeological horizons3,4,5,6. However, so far there has been no consensus on whether this archaeological horizon spread by migration, Slavicisation or a combination of both. Genetic data remain sparse, especially owing to the widespread practice of cremation in the early phase of the Slavic settlement. Here we present genome-wide data from 555 ancient individuals, including 359 samples from Slavic contexts from as early as the seventh century CE. Our data demonstrate large-scale population movement from Eastern Europe during the sixth to eighth centuries, replacing more than 80% of the local gene pool in Eastern Germany, Poland and Croatia. Yet, we also show substantial regional heterogeneity as well as a lack of sex-biased admixture, indicating varying degrees of cultural assimilation of the autochthonous populations. Comparing archaeological and genetic evidence, we find that the change in ancestry in Eastern Germany coincided with a change in social organization, characterized by an intensification of inter- and intra-site genetic relatedness and patrilocality. On the European scale, it appears plausible that the changes in material culture and language between the sixth and eighth centuries were connected to these large-scale population movements.

=====

And another paper also published today:

https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13059-025-03700-9

Abstract

Background
The Slavs are a major ethnolinguistic group of Europe, yet the process that led to their formation remains disputed. As of the sixth century CE, people supposedly belonging to the Slavs populated the space between the Avar Khaganate in the Carpathian Basin, the Merovingian Frankish Empire to the West and the Balkan Peninsula to the South. Proposed theories to explain those events are, however, conceptually incompatible, as some invoke major population movements while others stress the continuity of local populations.

Results
We report high-quality genomic data of 18 individuals from two nearby burial sites in South Moravia that span from the fifth to the tenth century CE, during which the region became the core of the ninth century Slavic principality. In contrast to existing data, the individuals reported here can be directly connected to an Early-Slavic-associated culture and include the earliest known inhumation associated with any such culture.

Conclusions
The data indicates a strong genetic shift incompatible with local continuity between the fifth and seventh century, supporting the notion that the Slavic expansion in South Moravia was driven by population movement.

[Peterski]

And here an interesting video about the subject:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byONEV6i0VI

[Tacitus]

Coords are out: https://pastebin.com/HnL1mbR6

Distance to: Tacitus_G25sim
0.02388703 Balkan_Roman_West:Croatia_VEM:VEM017
0.03495211 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC022
0.03666765 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_BRC:BRC043
0.03715539 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_BRC:BRC008
0.03813793 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_BRC:BRC014
0.03920770 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_RTW:RTW004
0.05791490 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC033
0.05842944 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_BRC:BRC024
0.05862912 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC024
0.05888404 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC004
0.06084892 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_BRC:BRC035
0.06174612 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_BRC:BRC012
0.06522878 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_RTW:RTW003
0.06585394 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC016
0.06776147 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC003
0.06827119 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_BRC:BRC023
0.07093741 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_BRC:BRC011
0.07110569 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_DRH:DRH032
0.07125667 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_DRH:DRH023
0.07184428 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM018
0.07237700 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC034
0.07269573 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_BRC:BRC005
0.07359581 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC010
0.07360149 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC031
0.07364612 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC017

[celticdragongod]

Coords are out: https://pastebin.com/HnL1mbR6

Distance to: Tacitus_G25sim
0.02388703 Balkan_Roman_West:Croatia_VEM:VEM017
0.03495211 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC022
0.03666765 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_BRC:BRC043
0.03715539 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_BRC:BRC008
0.03813793 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_BRC:BRC014
0.03920770 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_RTW:RTW004
0.05791490 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC033
0.05842944 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_BRC:BRC024
0.05862912 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC024
0.05888404 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC004
0.06084892 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_BRC:BRC035
0.06174612 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_BRC:BRC012
0.06522878 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_RTW:RTW003
0.06585394 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC016
0.06776147 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC003
0.06827119 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_BRC:BRC023
0.07093741 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_BRC:BRC011
0.07110569 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_DRH:DRH032
0.07125667 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_DRH:DRH023
0.07184428 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM018
0.07237700 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC034
0.07269573 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_BRC:BRC005
0.07359581 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC010
0.07360149 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC031
0.07364612 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC017

Distance to: CDG_scaled
0.02102567 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC025
0.02224598 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH026
0.02304790 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH030
0.02321451 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC053
0.02366564 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC061
0.02420606 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC009
0.02423153 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC003
0.02572387 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH012
0.02656041 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH057
0.02692780 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC004
0.02740064 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC034
0.02757486 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC030
0.02818952 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_OBM:OBM007
0.02827323 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_OBM:OBM053
0.02949159 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH021
0.02950097 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_OBM:OBM006
0.02955219 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC028
0.02972341 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC033
0.02975751 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH047
0.02989760 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC021
0.03000129 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC037
0.03017431 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_RTW:RTW015
0.03071948 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC049
0.03077498 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_OBM:OBM020
0.03083731 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH007

Target: CDG_scaled
Distance: 0.0074% / 0.00744755
93.7 WCEuro_Antiquity
6.3 Balkan_Roman_North


Target: CDG_scaled
Distance: 0.0074% / 0.00744757
21.4 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC025
16.8 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC053
12.7 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH009
10.4 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC013
8.1 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_OBM:OBM023
7.1 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH031
6.3 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH047
4.5 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_OBM:OBM006
4.0 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_RTW:RTW009
3.5 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC019
2.7 Balkan_Roman_North:Croatia_BBC:BBC020
1.6 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_OBM:OBM054
0.7 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_OBM:OBM053
0.1 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_OBM:OBM021
0.1 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_RTW:RTW015

Distance to: CDG_scaled
0.01421624 41.20% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC033 + 58.80% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC053
0.01468690 52.20% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC030 + 47.80% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_OBM:OBM006
0.01472986 54.40% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC025 + 45.60% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC053
0.01498120 63.20% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC025 + 36.80% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_OBM:OBM006
0.01523793 55.60% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC025 + 44.40% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC061
0.01534996 46.20% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC009 + 53.80% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH026
0.01549106 52.80% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC025 + 47.20% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH026
0.01555016 68.80% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC025 + 31.20% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH009
0.01593970 60.40% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH012 + 39.60% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH018
0.01596694 68.20% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC025 + 31.80% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH031
0.01602585 37.60% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC036 + 62.40% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC053
0.01631190 43.60% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC030 + 56.40% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC061
0.01631238 53.80% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH012 + 46.20% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_OBM:OBM053
0.01632407 59.40% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC009 + 40.60% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_OBM:OBM020
0.01634450 64.20% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH030 + 35.80% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH031
0.01635822 41.40% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC004 + 58.60% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH026
0.01636400 38.20% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC004 + 61.80% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC025
0.01657671 40.20% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC030 + 59.80% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH026
0.01662017 61.60% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC053 + 38.40% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_OBM:OBM020
0.01663541 60.40% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC053 + 39.60% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH047
0.01669107 71.80% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC025 + 28.20% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_OBM:OBM038
0.01669273 62.60% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH026 + 37.40% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH047
0.01669624 59.60% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC009 + 40.40% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC049
0.01669690 63.80% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC053 + 36.20% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_OBM:OBM054
0.01671931 39.20% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC037 + 60.80% WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC053

[noricum]

Distance to: G25noricum_scaled
0.02689602 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM004
0.02777813 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM052
0.02851502 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM008
0.02878874 Slavic_south:Croatia_TOR:TOR004
0.02905672 Slavic_East:Ukraine_PDH:PDH011
0.02960760 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM036
0.03062901 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM009
0.03093729 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM007
0.03114147 Slavic_West:Germany_NDW:NDW020
0.03133854 Slavic_West:Germany_NDW:NDW086
0.03145824 Slavic_south:Croatia_TOR:TOR001
0.03152501 Slavic_East:Ukraine_PDH:PDH012
0.03178453 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM025
0.03187678 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM033
0.03266025 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM061
0.03348124 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM049
0.03384800 Slavic_West:Germany_NDW:NDW006
0.03491520 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM066
0.03513547 Slavic_West:Germany_NDW:NDW026
0.03532487 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM029
0.03542053 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM024
0.03557394 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM038
0.03564227 ECEuro_Antiquity:Poland_GRK:GRK020
0.03591968 ECEuro_Antiquity:Poland_GRK:GRK002
0.03654803 Slavic_West:Germany_SDN:SDN003

[Feiichy]

Proto Slavs formed as mix of roughly 70% Baltic BA + 30% Dacian-like, somewhere between Baltic and Black Sea (northern Ukraine, southern Belarus)

https://i.imgur.com/1iFiX98.png

[Peterski]

I made an average for nine Przeworsk samples in Eurogenes K36 calculator:

Samples included in the average:

Przeworsk_PC1001 (Boczne cave, 200-400 AD)
Przeworsk_PC1004 (Zarska cave, 200-500 AD)
Przeworsk_PC1005 (Zarska cave, 200-500 AD)
Przeworsk_PC1008 (Koziarnia cave, 258-530 AD)
Przeworsk_PC1009 (Koziarnia cave, 246-404 AD)
Przeworsk_PC1016 (Koziarnia cave, 200-500 AD)
Przeworsk_PCA0011 (Gaski, 200 BC - 100 AD)
Przeworsk_PCA0012 (Gaski, 200 BC - 100 AD)
Przeworsk_czu001 (Czulice, 395–418 AD)

This average has such distances to modern regional European populations:

Przeworsk_N9

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Europe_NL_Zuid-Holland
0.3009950
Europe_NL_Gelderland
0.3898654
Europe_DE_Nordrhein-Westfalen
0.3927225
Europe_NL_Noord-Holland
0.3953593
Europe_GB_East-of-England
0.4364905
Europe_NL_Utrecht
0.4456624
Europe_DK_Denmark
0.4486000
(...)

And K36 Mixed Mode for this Przeworsk average (reduced to 5 populations):

Target: Przeworsk_N9
Distance: 0.87696597 | R5P
32.2 Europe_DK_Denmark
27.0 Europe_NL_Friesland
20.6 Europe_NL_Utrecht
14.8 Europe_FR_Nord-Pas-de-Calais
5.4 Europe_FR_Picardy

And here Similitude Map based on these averaged K36 results for Przeworsk:

https://i.imgur.com/TgNc55H.png

And Y-DNA haplogroups of Przeworsk samples:

czu001 (Czulice) - I1-FGC21611
PC1004 (Zarska cave) - I1-CTS11950,Z2880
PC1005 (Zarska cave) - I1-FGC7747
PC1008 (Koziarnia cave) - I2a1b1-CTS7391
PC1001 (Boczne cave) - J2b2a1a1a1a1a1a-Z639 (also J-Z631)
PC1009 (Koziarnia cave) - E1b1b1a1b1-CTS10084,PF2245,Z1058
PC1016 (Koziarnia cave) - woman
PCA0011 (Gaski) - woman
PCA0012 (Gaski) - woman

And also the Poprad prince who is suspected of being Przeworsk:

DA119 (Poprad-Matejovce) - R1b1a1b1a1a1c2b1b4b-S6915

These two haplogroup tools are very useful:

HRAS - https://hras.yseq.net/?dna_type=y&map_type=alpha

SNP Tracker - https://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html

[Peterski]

For comparison the only Lusatian sample from this paper:

https://www.exploreyourdna.com/similitude.htm

PC2001 (Zbojecka cave, 776-634 BC)

Sample PC2001_Lusatian
Amerindian 0.14
Arabian 0
Armenian 0.22
Basque 0.34
Central African 0
Central Euro 8.47
East African 0
East Asian 0.92
East Balkan 8.3
East Central Asian 0
East Central Euro 19.17
East Med 0
Eastern Euro 8.55
Fennoscandian 2.67
French 6.25
Iberian 3.64
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 2.8
Malayan 0
Near Eastern 0
North African 0
North Atlantic 14.81
North Caucasian 0
North Sea 14.3
Northeast African 0
Oceanian 0
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South Asian 0
South Central Asian 0
South Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 1.01
West African 0
West Caucasian 0
West Med 8.42

https://i.imgur.com/UebjbAK.png

=====

Edit:

Comparison of Grodek_Tribal and Grodek_Medieval averages using my K36 averages:

Grodek_Tribal includes these samples:

GRK004 - dated to 772 - 973 CE
GRK008 - dated to 677 - 877 CE
GRK010 - dated to 670 - 821 CE
GRK011 - dated to 682 - 880 CE
GRK013 - dated to 676 - 876 CE
GRK014 - dated to 705 - 884 CE
GRK015 - dated to 704 - 884 CE

Distance to: Grodek_Tribal
3.18240475 Europe_UA_Lviv-Oblast
3.69383270 Europe_SK_Zemplin-Rusyns
4.66173787 Europe_SK_Slovakia
4.76123933 Europe_UA_Zakarpattia-Oblast
4.92020325 Europe_PL_Malopolskie
5.20370061 Europe_SK_Slovakia-Presov
5.40671804 Europe_PL_Podkarpackie
5.62751277 Europe_PL_Upper-Silesia
5.67713836 Europe_UA_Poltava-Oblast
5.86718842 Europe_UA_Vinnytsia-Oblast

Grodek_Medieval includes these samples:

GRK001 - dated to 1036 - 1164 CE
GRK002 - dated to 1032 - 1159 CE
GRK005 - dated to 1039 - 1185 CE
GRK006 - dated to 1039 - 1162 CE
GRK007 - dated to 995 - 1154 CE
GRK009 - dated to 1024 - 1157 CE
GRK012 - dated to 1032 - 1159 CE

Distance to: Grodek_Medieval
2.94068019 Europe_PL_Podlaskie
3.10436789 Europe_PL_Mazowieckie
3.67675128 Europe_PL_Central-Poland
3.82745346 Europe_BY_Grodno-Region
4.03220783 Europe_PL_Lubelskie
4.33591974 Europe_PL_Zachodniopomorskie:Medieval
4.62135262 Europe_UA_Sumy-Oblast
4.68984008 Europe_UA_Zhytomyr-Oblast
4.78677344 Europe_PL_Podkarpackie
4.90176499 Europe_UA_Rivne-Oblast

Interesting, don't you think? Weren't Grodek_Tribal the Ledzianie tribe?:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lendians

=====

Edit:

After removing outlier GRK002 from the Medieval average it looks like this:

(maybe the garrison of the stronghold came from Medieval Wielkopolska?)

Distance to: Grodek_Medieval
3.07475202 Europe_PL_Podlaskie
3.22035712 Europe_BY_Grodno-Region
3.55671196 Europe_PL_Wielkopolskie:Medieval
3.72808262 Europe_PL_Mazowieckie
3.99911240 Europe_UA_Kiev-Oblast
4.01248053 Europe_UA_Sumy-Oblast
4.26609892 Europe_BY_Minsk-Region
4.26626300 Russia_RUS_Smolensk
4.27031615 Europe_PL_Central-Poland
4.36467639 Europe_BY_Homyel-Region

PCA of Grodek_Tribal and Grodek_Medieval compared to modern countries:

https://i.imgur.com/xyORsBw.png

[Gannicus]

Top distances those new samples:

Distance to: Gannicus_MergedFile_officialDavidski_scaled
0.02612481 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH008
0.02699019 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC034
0.02779611 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH030
0.02859707 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH018
0.02960051 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH025
0.02983573 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC028
0.03328882 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH020
0.03409286 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC030
0.03417720 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC009
0.03421919 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_RTW:RTW008
0.03489534 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC055
0.03573958 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH029
0.03584185 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH011
0.03584374 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC057
0.03693022 ECEuro_Antiquity:Poland_GRK:GRK020
0.03696031 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_OBM:OBM053
0.03700435 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC061
0.03730997 ECEuro_Antiquity:Poland_GRK:GRK016
0.03762775 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH009
0.03801599 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH021
0.03815673 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH024
0.03838388 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC004
0.03873244 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_BRC:BRC039
0.03881072 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH006
0.03907559 WCEuro_Antiquity:Germany_DRH:DRH007

[Dick]

Target: scaled
Distance: 0.9008% / 0.00900829
35.0 Slavic_West
32.0 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed
24.4 Slavic_south
6.0 Slavic_East
2.6 Balkan_Roman_North

Distance to: scaled
0.02271459 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM020
0.02875042 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM061
0.02951914 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM039
0.02998713 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM027
0.03356964 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM040
0.03445493 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM066
0.03465419 WCEuro_Antiquity_oMixed:Germany_RTW:RTW012
0.03559111 Slavic_West_oSouth:Poland_GRK:GRK014
0.03569260 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM022
0.03600317 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM041
0.03610049 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM025
0.03630316 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM026
0.03630530 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM062
0.03663840 Slavic_East:Ukraine_PDH:PDH005
0.03752475 Slavic_south:Croatia_TOR:TOR004
0.03758297 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM033
0.03802978 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM032
0.03915348 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM007
0.03979211 Slavic_East:Ukraine_PDH:PDH011
0.04015533 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM051
0.04053875 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM018
0.04078212 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM014
0.04121056 Slavic_south:Croatia_VEM:VEM009
0.04240610 Slavic_West_oSouth:Poland_GRK:GRK019
0.04269721 Slavic_south:Croatia_DUC:DUC001

[Peterski]

There is also one Slavic-like ancient sample from Grodek, dated to 245 - 402 AD:

Distance to: GRK023
11.26423544 Europe_PL_Pomorskie-Kluki:Slovincians
11.74814028 Europe_PL_Warmia-Masuria
12.01737492 Europe_BY_Brest-Region
12.23638836 Europe_PL_Central-Poland
12.29588142 Europe_BY_Mogilev-Region
12.56791550 Europe_PL_Wielkopolskie:Medieval
12.70014173 Europe_EE_Parnu-County
12.70910697 Europe_PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie
12.89168724 Europe_PL_Mazowieckie
12.94686835 Europe_PL_Pomorskie-Kashubia

Sample GRK023
Amerindian 0
Arabian 0
Armenian 0
Basque 1.56
Central African 0
Central Euro 0
East African 0
East Asian 0
East Balkan 5.9
East Central Asian 0
East Central Euro 24.88
East Med 0
Eastern Euro 16.4
Fennoscandian 16.37
French 5.68
Iberian 1.1
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 0
Malayan 0
Near Eastern 0
North African 0
North Atlantic 13.99
North Caucasian 0
North Sea 12.72
Northeast African 0
Oceanian 0
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South Asian 0
South Central Asian 0
South Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 1.39
West African 0
West Caucasian 0
West Med 0

Maybe it is a Gothic-Baltic mixed person?

[Peterski]

Now a comparison using G25 and Europe1 PCA:

As can be seen Grodek_Tribal is more Balkan-shifted and Grodek_Medieval more Baltic-shifted:

https://vahaduo.github.io/g25views/#Europe1


Grodek_Medieval:GRK001,0.132035,0.128972,0.069013, 0.056848,0.042162,0.019801,0.011986,0.007846,-0.005318,-0.021322,-0.004384,-0.009442,0.022596,0.026699,-0.008686,0.002254,0.008345,-0.006208,-0.004399,0.004252,-0.004866,-0.009892,0.010846,-0.007591,-0.006945
Grodek_Medieval:GRK005,0.138864,0.123895,0.07731,0 .076874,0.043393,0.032909,0.011751,0.014999,0.0047 04,-0.0277,-0.002111,-0.009891,0.02334,0.023121,-0.016829,-0.002784,0.010952,-0.005194,0.00817,0.004502,-0.002745,-0.008408,0.00912,-0.015183,0.00455
Grodek_Medieval:GRK006,0.127482,0.12491,0.071653,0 .068153,0.048009,0.025658,0.008225,0.009461,-0.001841,-0.026789,-0.007795,-0.013338,0.016501,0.017065,-0.009093,0.000928,0.006128,-0.00038,0.006536,0.01038,-0.002371,-0.003833,0.000246,-0.009399,0.00012
Grodek_Medieval:GRK007,0.126344,0.126941,0.058077, 0.042636,0.042777,0.012829,0.012456,0.014999,-0.003681,-0.010387,-0.001624,-0.002997,0.015312,0.017203,-0.006243,0.008353,0.008475,0.003927,0.007416,-0.003502,-0.004991,-0.005564,0.001725,-0.009278,-0.00946
Grodek_Medieval:GRK009,0.130897,0.121864,0.072784, 0.069122,0.040007,0.018128,0.012221,0.015692,-0.001432,-0.024237,-0.005034,-0.000599,0.021258,0.026836,-0.015744,-0.012861,-0.00678,-0.002787,0.004274,0.001626,-0.010107,-0.00136,0.0053,-0.007832,-0.000958
Grodek_Medieval:GRK012,0.129758,0.123895,0.059585, 0.059109,0.045239,0.013945,0.01034,0.01223,-0.001432,-0.024602,0.001461,-0.01094,0.022894,0.020781,-0.013572,0.012198,0.02047,-0.005701,-0.004777,0.006628,-0.006738,-0.009274,0.011832,-0.008073,-0.00491
Grodek_Tribal:GRK004,0.132035,0.128972,0.066373,0. 048127,0.048624,0.010877,0.011751,0.010153,0.00306 8,-0.013485,-0.008119,-0.005695,0.005203,0.021332,-0.010722,-0.000133,0.005215,0.00114,0.005531,0.008379,-0.005865,0.00779,0.008134,-0.007471,0.007544
Grodek_Tribal:GRK008,0.140002,0.12491,0.06675,0.05 4587,0.038161,0.018407,0.008225,0.004154,0.003272,-0.026424,-0.005359,-0.001499,0.011744,0.015551,-0.012758,0.01538,0.022035,-0.007728,-0.002765,0.003502,0,-0.004946,0.008751,-0.007471,-0.002155
Grodek_Tribal:GRK010,0.136588,0.13405,0.059208,0.0 40698,0.043085,0.01757,0.00893,0.008538,-0.002863,-0.015672,-0.004872,-0.008093,0.006095,0.019405,-0.010722,0.003447,0.010952,-0.001014,0.013324,-0.000375,0.00287,0.001607,0.003944,-0.009399,-0.000359
Grodek_Tribal:GRK011,0.134311,0.118817,0.056191,0. 053941,0.030159,0.020917,0.00705,0.011538,0.001023 ,-0.021322,0.00747,-0.005845,0.014717,0.019818,-0.011536,0.000796,0.00339,0.00114,-0.001131,-0.000875,-0.009733,-0.005812,0.008134,-0.005181,-0.000958
Grodek_Tribal:GRK013,0.136588,0.125926,0.069013,0. 057817,0.0437,0.016176,0.011751,0.015922,-0.002863,-0.019317,0.002111,-0.006894,0.015015,0.01913,-0.0095,-0.005436,-0.007041,0.003294,0.007416,-0.001376,-0.005989,-0.008656,0.008258,-0.012291,0.002395
Grodek_Tribal:GRK014,0.12862,0.132019,0.054305,0.0 3553,0.038161,0.006972,0.003995,0,-0.003272,-0.005649,-0.001949,0.002398,0.001338,0.016102,-0.008822,0.001458,0.011083,0.007728,0.014707,0.004 877,-0.00262,0.004575,0.006162,0.001325,0.006945
Grodek_Tribal:GRK015,0.125205,0.11577,0.059962,0.0 42313,0.031698,0.018407,0.00423,0.008769,0.000409,-0.01385,0.001786,-0.003147,0.00669,0.010459,-0.003529,0.013259,0.015255,-0.004561,0.000628,0.002501,-0.003494,-0.003586,0.010599,-0.000723,-0.001317

https://i.imgur.com/CnfnVGO.png

[Peterski]

So we have these samples from Przeworsk in G25:

(I'm not sure why but in Ajeje's spreadsheet PCA0011 and PCA0012 have a bit different coordinates)


Przeworsk_Gaski_PCA0011,0.127482,0.128972,0.060716 ,0.057494,0.036622,0.015339,0.007285,-0.003923,0.000614,0.001276,-0.004872,-0.001349,-0.015758,-0.009221,0.020358,0.005701,-0.00339,0.001647,0.003394,0.008629,0.003119,0.0112 52,0.012325,0.013134,-0.002754
Przeworsk_Gaski_PCA0012,0.134311,0.145221,0.054682 ,0.030685,0.050163,0.007809,-0.00141,0.006,0.013908,0.01877,-0.003085,0.01154,-0.01115,-0.007982,0.013843,0.011138,0.005215,0.006588,0.006 536,-0.001626,-0.001373,0.001731,-0.000616,-0.001446,-0.00012
Przeworsk_Czulice_czu001,0.121791,0.133034,0.07580 1,0.070737,0.042469,0.017012,0.00188,0.011307,0.00 6749,-0.002369,-0.005196,0.004946,-0.013379,-0.013762,0.021444,0.025722,0.004433,-0.003294,-0.002891,0.008754,0.013102,0.000618,-0.002095,0.019882,-0.001197
Przeworsk_Boczne_PC1001,0.135449,0.131003,0.060716 ,0.046189,0.035391,0.022869,-0.00188,0.003,-0.000818,0.005832,-0.009256,0.012739,-0.012339,-0.011147,0.009229,0.018165,0.011865,0.007855,0.010 433,0.000625,0.001248,0.010881,-0.003451,0.009519,-0.011975
Przeworsk_Zarska_PC1004,0.140002,0.142174,0.060339 ,0.052326,0.038161,0.027331,0.014101,0.004615,-0.006545,0.000364,-0.001624,0.001349,-0.0055,-0.02202,0.002986,0.016441,0.007823,-0.003674,0.002514,0.01138,-0.000125,0.011129,0.000986,0.017593,-0.014969
Przeworsk_Zarska_PC1005,0.135449,0.146236,0.060716 ,0.054587,0.048624,0.019801,0.006345,0.007615,-0.005522,0.001822,0.000974,0.006145,-0.009514,-0.011836,0.019544,0.008221,0.014473,-0.000507,0.007416,0.008254,0.002496,0.000371,0.003 081,0.017593,-0.012574
Przeworsk_Koziarnia_PC1009,0.142279,0.126941,0.059 208,0.038114,0.041238,0.018128,0.000705,0.009923,-0.012067,0.010387,0.002598,0.004946,0.000743,-0.006331,0.002714,0.001326,0.005607,0.003674,0.004 022,-0.002376,0.007237,0.009274,0.003697,0.012652,-0.001317
Przeworsk_Koziarnia_PC1016,0.132035,0.141159,0.061 094,0.027132,0.049855,0.005857,0.00235,0.02723,0.0 13294,0.012939,0.006171,0.028025,-0.003717,-0.012386,0.03678,0.027446,0.009257,0.010135,0.0043 99,0.013381,0.004492,0.003957,-0.002465,0.006145,0.012454

Average:


Przeworsk_N8,0.1335998,0.1368425,0.061659,0.047158 ,0.0428154,0.0167682,0.003672,0.0082209,0.0012016, 0.0061276,-0.0017862,0.0085426,-0.0088268,-0.0118356,0.0158622,0.01427,0.0069104,0.002803,0.0 044779,0.0058776,0.0037745,0.0061516,0.0014328,0.0 11884,-0.0040565

The average for these 8 Przeworsk culture samples lies exactly along the cline connecting Gauls with Germanics:

https://i.imgur.com/MTZRe0k.png

^^^
I used populations from my "World 6th century BC" calculator:

https://www.exploreyourdna.com/calculator/135/world-6th-century-bc-by-tomenable-piotr-kapuscinski.htm

[cass]

There is also one Slavic-like ancient sample from Grodek, dated to 245 - 402 AD:

Distance to: GRK023
11.26423544 Europe_PL_Pomorskie-Kluki:Slovincians
11.74814028 Europe_PL_Warmia-Masuria
12.01737492 Europe_BY_Brest-Region
12.23638836 Europe_PL_Central-Poland
12.29588142 Europe_BY_Mogilev-Region
12.56791550 Europe_PL_Wielkopolskie:Medieval
12.70014173 Europe_EE_Parnu-County
12.70910697 Europe_PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie
12.89168724 Europe_PL_Mazowieckie
12.94686835 Europe_PL_Pomorskie-Kashubia

Sample GRK023
Amerindian 0
Arabian 0
Armenian 0
Basque 1.56
Central African 0
Central Euro 0
East African 0
East Asian 0
East Balkan 5.9
East Central Asian 0
East Central Euro 24.88
East Med 0
Eastern Euro 16.4
Fennoscandian 16.37
French 5.68
Iberian 1.1
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 0
Malayan 0
Near Eastern 0
North African 0
North Atlantic 13.99
North Caucasian 0
North Sea 12.72
Northeast African 0
Oceanian 0
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South Asian 0
South Central Asian 0
South Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 1.39
West African 0
West Caucasian 0
West Med 0

Maybe it is a Gothic-Baltic mixed person?

SampleGRK023,0,0,0,1.56,0,0,0,0,5.9,0,24.88,0,16.4 ,16.37,5.68,1.1,0,0,0,0,0,13.99,0,12.72,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0,0,1.39,0,0,0

Distance to: SampleGRK023
10.70595629 Poland_Bronze_Age_Silesia_I6579
12.77740193 Poland_Corded_Ware_Ancient_Kujawy_N49
13.18060317 Poland_Corded_Ware_Ancient_Kujawy_N47
16.02013109 cass
16.05205283 Ancient_Baltic:Lithuania_Spiginas2
16.06531357 Ancient_Baltic:Lithuania_Plinkaigalis242
16.46209282 Russia_Sungir6_I2a1
16.49238006 Early_Slavic:Early_Medieval_Pole_AV2
16.61704847 Sigtuna_Viking_grt036
17.03584750 Sigtuna_Viking_urm160
17.13174539 Sweden_Pitted_Ware_3000_BC_Ajvide58
17.68584180 Srubnaya_KZB002
18.07070004 Poland_Suwalki_Vs_1188_R1a
18.15395549 Russia_EBA_Volgograd_RISE555
18.15755215 Ancient_Baltic:Lithuania_Kretuonas2
18.16015694 Poland_Suwalki_Turlojske1_R1a
18.24244227 Srubnaya_KZB009
18.60789617 Germanic:Szolad_SZ25_Langobard
18.60789617 Szolad_SZ25_Langobard
18.68594124 Poland_Corded_Ware_Ancient_Kujawy_N45
18.72137548 West_Scythian_MJ13
18.77531358 Unetice_I0116
18.88356428 Ukraine_Vovnigi_N1
19.00431530 Samara_EHG_I0124_5600_BC
19.40112626 Sunghir6_(Sikora2017)_Russia


Looks like a Bronze Age relic, let's wait for G25.

[Peterski]

Looks like a Bronze Age relic, let's wait for G25.

G25:


GRK023,0.135449,0.125926,0.087115,0.078489,0.04893 2,0.030678,0.006345,0.012923,0.00225,-0.023326,-0.005196,-0.01124,0.015758,0.022708,-0.002579,0.004773,-0.009127,0.001647,0.005405,-5e-04,-0.001373,0.005564,-0.000246,-0.002169,-0.002275

[Wandal]

The Slavs are a major ethnolinguistic group of Europe, yet the process that led to their formation remains disputed. As of the sixth century CE, people supposedly belonging to the Slavs populated the space between the Avar Khaganate in the Carpathian Basin, the Merovingian Frankish Empire to the West and the Balkan Peninsula to the South. Proposed theories to explain those events are, however, conceptually incompatible, as some invoke major population movements while others stress the continuity of local populations.

This is just more "academic" propaganda which is designed to hide the common origins of peoples. If we accept the "official" chronology, around 50 A.D. Goths were living from the Słucz river in Volhynia, to the Pripec, and even further west. Simply because a subculture cremates the dead while others bury them in a position facing west (setting sun) does not mean they are completely separate peoples. Tacitus, Ptolemy, Strabo all mention these peoples (not always by the same names). Emperor Justinian called the Sauromatians Goths.

"Who were the Slavs" is a nonsenscial question once we see it comes from "scholars" and Jordanes who invented "Slavs" instead of using the names these people called themselves.
"Goth" is Sumerian and refers to all Nordic peoples residing anywhere.

To look for the origins of these people use the name they called themselves and the names they gave the Baltic Sea (Morze Wendyjskie) and the Carpathian Mountains (Góry Wendyjskie).
Most recently at that time they came from the Azov Sea region. (a distance of 1500 kilometres.)

Also see the book by the German scholar Krantz, Wandalia. (The Vandals and the Venedovians are the same people).

To get a bigger picture see the books by L.A. Waddell.

[Feiichy]

Major conclusions from the paper:

Slavic migrations completely transformed genetic landscape of eastern, central and southeastern Europe

- Slavs replaced local population in Germany and Croatia up to 80%, less in northern Russia
- much of central and eastern Germany had Sorb like genetic profile and area was later re-Germanized in Ostsidelung
- modern Croats are less than 80% Slavic today, so post-medieval there was resurgence of local Balkan ancestry
- Poland is def. not the origin of proto Slavs and Germanic tribes lived in Poland before Slavs emigrated from the east and almost completely replaced old population
- proto Slavs already acquired EEF enriched ancestry in forest zone of northeastern Europe
- Slavic migrations included mass population movements with women and children, unlike Germanic warrior male dominated migrations
- Croatian medieval Slavs share more IBD with German medieval Slavs than both share with Polish Slav samples which is somewhat surprising
- R1a M458 is not a good marker of proto Slavs and seems it was Slavicized in central Europe already after formation of early Slavs. Two main early Slavic lineages are instead R1a Z280 and I2a Y3210.

[KirillMazur]

Major conclusions from the paper:

Slavic migrations completely transformed genetic landscape of eastern, central and southeastern Europe
It would be interesting to know whether there ever existed "pure" Slavs without Baltic, Germanic, Finno-Ugric, Turkic, Balkan and other admixtures? Or without all this, Slavs are indistinguishable from R1 pre-Arab Iranics?

[Feiichy]

It would be interesting to know whether there ever existed "pure" Slavs without Baltic, Germanic, Finno-Ugric, Turkic, Balkan and other admixtures? Or without all this, Slavs are indistinguishable from R1 pre-Arab Iranics?

I created proto Slavic G25 coords by following guidelines from this paper and it's closest to:

Distance to: Proto_Slav

0.01415176 Belarusian
0.01428394 Russian_Smolensk
0.01598366 Russian_Voronezh
0.01631404 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.01721179 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.01737822 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.01743548 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.01903361 Russian_Kaluga
0.01975875 Lithuanian_PA
0.01978615 Ukrainian_Dnipro

[Feiichy]

Or without all this, Slavs are indistinguishable from R1 pre-Arab Iranics?

Schytians were different, they lacked BaltoSlavic dift and had mongoloid + caucasian admixture too.

[KirillMazur]

I created proto Slavic G25 coords by following guidelines from this paper and it's closest to:

Distance to: Proto_Slav

0.01415176 Belarusian
0.01428394 Russian_Smolensk
0.01598366 Russian_Voronezh
0.01631404 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.01721179 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.01737822 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.01743548 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.01903361 Russian_Kaluga
0.01975875 Lithuanian_PA
0.01978615 Ukrainian_Dnipro
My father's ancestors are from the Gomel region, a proto-Slavic region:thumb001:

Schytians were different, they lacked BaltoSlavic dift and had mongoloid + caucasian admixture too.
Thank you, it’s interesting, there is a huge amount of contradictory information about the Scythians..

[Dušan]

Now a comparison using G25 and Europe1 PCA:

As can be seen Grodek_Tribal is more Balkan-shifted and Grodek_Medieval more Baltic-shifted:

https://vahaduo.github.io/g25views/#Europe1


Grodek_Medieval:GRK001,0.132035,0.128972,0.069013, 0.056848,0.042162,0.019801,0.011986,0.007846,-0.005318,-0.021322,-0.004384,-0.009442,0.022596,0.026699,-0.008686,0.002254,0.008345,-0.006208,-0.004399,0.004252,-0.004866,-0.009892,0.010846,-0.007591,-0.006945
Grodek_Medieval:GRK005,0.138864,0.123895,0.07731,0 .076874,0.043393,0.032909,0.011751,0.014999,0.0047 04,-0.0277,-0.002111,-0.009891,0.02334,0.023121,-0.016829,-0.002784,0.010952,-0.005194,0.00817,0.004502,-0.002745,-0.008408,0.00912,-0.015183,0.00455
Grodek_Medieval:GRK006,0.127482,0.12491,0.071653,0 .068153,0.048009,0.025658,0.008225,0.009461,-0.001841,-0.026789,-0.007795,-0.013338,0.016501,0.017065,-0.009093,0.000928,0.006128,-0.00038,0.006536,0.01038,-0.002371,-0.003833,0.000246,-0.009399,0.00012
Grodek_Medieval:GRK007,0.126344,0.126941,0.058077, 0.042636,0.042777,0.012829,0.012456,0.014999,-0.003681,-0.010387,-0.001624,-0.002997,0.015312,0.017203,-0.006243,0.008353,0.008475,0.003927,0.007416,-0.003502,-0.004991,-0.005564,0.001725,-0.009278,-0.00946
Grodek_Medieval:GRK009,0.130897,0.121864,0.072784, 0.069122,0.040007,0.018128,0.012221,0.015692,-0.001432,-0.024237,-0.005034,-0.000599,0.021258,0.026836,-0.015744,-0.012861,-0.00678,-0.002787,0.004274,0.001626,-0.010107,-0.00136,0.0053,-0.007832,-0.000958
Grodek_Medieval:GRK012,0.129758,0.123895,0.059585, 0.059109,0.045239,0.013945,0.01034,0.01223,-0.001432,-0.024602,0.001461,-0.01094,0.022894,0.020781,-0.013572,0.012198,0.02047,-0.005701,-0.004777,0.006628,-0.006738,-0.009274,0.011832,-0.008073,-0.00491
Grodek_Tribal:GRK004,0.132035,0.128972,0.066373,0. 048127,0.048624,0.010877,0.011751,0.010153,0.00306 8,-0.013485,-0.008119,-0.005695,0.005203,0.021332,-0.010722,-0.000133,0.005215,0.00114,0.005531,0.008379,-0.005865,0.00779,0.008134,-0.007471,0.007544
Grodek_Tribal:GRK008,0.140002,0.12491,0.06675,0.05 4587,0.038161,0.018407,0.008225,0.004154,0.003272,-0.026424,-0.005359,-0.001499,0.011744,0.015551,-0.012758,0.01538,0.022035,-0.007728,-0.002765,0.003502,0,-0.004946,0.008751,-0.007471,-0.002155
Grodek_Tribal:GRK010,0.136588,0.13405,0.059208,0.0 40698,0.043085,0.01757,0.00893,0.008538,-0.002863,-0.015672,-0.004872,-0.008093,0.006095,0.019405,-0.010722,0.003447,0.010952,-0.001014,0.013324,-0.000375,0.00287,0.001607,0.003944,-0.009399,-0.000359
Grodek_Tribal:GRK011,0.134311,0.118817,0.056191,0. 053941,0.030159,0.020917,0.00705,0.011538,0.001023 ,-0.021322,0.00747,-0.005845,0.014717,0.019818,-0.011536,0.000796,0.00339,0.00114,-0.001131,-0.000875,-0.009733,-0.005812,0.008134,-0.005181,-0.000958
Grodek_Tribal:GRK013,0.136588,0.125926,0.069013,0. 057817,0.0437,0.016176,0.011751,0.015922,-0.002863,-0.019317,0.002111,-0.006894,0.015015,0.01913,-0.0095,-0.005436,-0.007041,0.003294,0.007416,-0.001376,-0.005989,-0.008656,0.008258,-0.012291,0.002395
Grodek_Tribal:GRK014,0.12862,0.132019,0.054305,0.0 3553,0.038161,0.006972,0.003995,0,-0.003272,-0.005649,-0.001949,0.002398,0.001338,0.016102,-0.008822,0.001458,0.011083,0.007728,0.014707,0.004 877,-0.00262,0.004575,0.006162,0.001325,0.006945
Grodek_Tribal:GRK015,0.125205,0.11577,0.059962,0.0 42313,0.031698,0.018407,0.00423,0.008769,0.000409,-0.01385,0.001786,-0.003147,0.00669,0.010459,-0.003529,0.013259,0.015255,-0.004561,0.000628,0.002501,-0.003494,-0.003586,0.010599,-0.000723,-0.001317

https://i.imgur.com/CnfnVGO.png

Trying 2-way models with Grodek average.



Grodek_average,0.13221,0.125457,0.064633,0.054289, 0.041167,0.017892,0.009455,0.010331,-0.000787,-0.019289,-0.002186,-0.005845,0.014054,0.0195,-0.010597,0.002835,0.008345,-0.001257,0.004225,0.003117,-0.004358,-0.003643,0.007158,-0.007582,-0.000424




0.0257 Dušan_scaled = 83% Serbian + 17% Grodek_average
0.0259 Dušan_scaled = 54% Grodek_average + 46% Greek_Macedonia
0.0265 Dušan_scaled = 91% Moldovan + 9% Grodek_average
0.0266 Dušan_scaled = 51% Grodek_average + 49% Torbeši_Polog
0.0269 Dušan_scaled = 69% Romanian + 31% Grodek_average
0.0271 Dušan_scaled = 59% Pomak_Danubian_Plain + 41% Grodek_average
0.0273 Dušan_scaled = 59% Grodek_average + 41% Greek_Arcadia
0.0273 Dušan_scaled = 59% Grodek_average + 41% Greek_Messenia
0.0275 Dušan_scaled = 61% Bulgarian + 39% Grodek_average
0.0275 Dušan_scaled = 58% Grodek_average + 42% Greek_Thessaly

[cass]

Major conclusions from the paper:

Slavic migrations completely transformed genetic landscape of eastern, central and southeastern Europe

- Slavs replaced local population in Germany and Croatia up to 80%, less in northern Russia
- much of central and eastern Germany had Sorb like genetic profile and area was later re-Germanized in Ostsidelung
- modern Croats are less than 80% Slavic today, so post-medieval there was resurgence of local Balkan ancestry
- Poland is def. not the origin of proto Slavs and Germanic tribes lived in Poland before Slavs emigrated from the east and almost completely replaced old population
- proto Slavs already acquired EEF enriched ancestry in forest zone of northeastern Europe
- Slavic migrations included mass population movements with women and children, unlike Germanic warrior male dominated migrations
- Croatian medieval Slavs share more IBD with German medieval Slavs than both share with Polish Slav samples which is somewhat surprising
- R1a M458 is not a good marker of proto Slavs and seems it was Slavicized in central Europe already after formation of early Slavs. Two main early Slavic lineages are instead R1a Z280 and I2a Y3210.



Distance to: GRK023
0.02859443 Denmark_Jutland_PreRoman_IA:CGG106486_CGG106491__B C_202__Cov_67.50%
0.02930292 Norway_Central_Trøndelag_EBA:CGG105601__AD_182__Co v_87.52%
0.03111235 Poland_Maslomecz_Wielbark_IA.SG:PCA0103.SG__AD_194 __Cov_74.66%
0.03181621 Germany_Hassleben_Germanic_oNorthernEurope.SG:R118 75.SG__AD_450__Cov_55.19%
0.03250928 Netherlands_South-Holland_Roman_IA:CGG107762__AD_100__Cov_40.17%
0.03319539 Ukraine_Komarów_MBA:poz296_dr__BC_1531__Cov_29.07%
0.03342071 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA:UKR116 __BC_645__Cov_46.54%
0.03405359 Russia_IA_Ingria.SG:s19_VIII9_1.SG__AD_137__Cov_25 .59%
0.03495978 Estonia_IA.SG:s19_V12_1.SG__BC_154__Cov_22.35%
0.03496734 Norway_Central_Trøndelag_EarlyRoman_IA:CGG105643__ AD_35__Cov_78.85%
0.03668189 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz684__BC_1317__Cov_27.11%
0.03682614 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz667__BC_1529__Cov_21.14%
0.03740882 Estonia_IA.SG:s19_X04_1.SG__BC_395__Cov_22.83%
0.03812590 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz747__BC_1391__Cov_29.66%
0.03824660 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz554__BC_1394__Cov_43.58%
0.03845789 Serbia_Roman_AfricanPossible.TW:I32305.TW__AD_100_ _Cov_80.26%
0.03856572 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug.AG:I12106.AG__BC_664__Cov_56. 93%
0.03895572 Ukraine_Volyn_Lusatian_EIA:UKR168__BC_850__Cov_57. 47%
0.03926962 Italy_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_NEurope.AG:I10949.AG__B C_480__Cov_49.60%
0.03959493 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz675__BC_1500__Cov_26.95%
0.03997427 Hungary_Sarmatian:HVF-21__AD_175__Cov_59.43%
0.04063195 Ukraine_Odesa_ThracianHallstatt_2_EIA:UKR000__BC_8 50__Cov_68.51%
0.04085516 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz658__BC_1326__Cov_46.94%
0.04106708 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz551_2__BC_1250__Cov_7.76%
0.04108251 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz665__BC_1476__Cov_43.54%


-250BC
Distance to: GRK023
0.03319539 Ukraine_Komarów_MBA:poz296_dr__BC_1531__Cov_29.07%
0.03342071 Ukraine_Kharkiv_Scythian_SivDon_NomEl_3_EIA:UKR116 __BC_645__Cov_46.54%
0.03668189 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz684__BC_1317__Cov_27.11%
0.03682614 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz667__BC_1529__Cov_21.14%
0.03740882 Estonia_IA.SG:s19_X04_1.SG__BC_395__Cov_22.83%
0.03812590 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz747__BC_1391__Cov_29.66%
0.03824660 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz554__BC_1394__Cov_43.58%
0.03856572 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug.AG:I12106.AG__BC_664__Cov_56. 93%
0.03895572 Ukraine_Volyn_Lusatian_EIA:UKR168__BC_850__Cov_57. 47%
0.03926962 Italy_Sicily_Himera_480BCE_NEurope.AG:I10949.AG__B C_480__Cov_49.60%
0.03959493 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz675__BC_1500__Cov_26.95%
0.04063195 Ukraine_Odesa_ThracianHallstatt_2_EIA:UKR000__BC_8 50__Cov_68.51%
0.04085516 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz658__BC_1326__Cov_46.94%
0.04106708 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz551_2__BC_1250__Cov_7.76%
0.04108251 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz665__BC_1476__Cov_43.54%
0.04113945 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz507_2__BC_1314__Cov_14.70%
0.04141714 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz545_2__BC_1260__Cov_9.10%
0.04162611 Lithuania_BA.AG:Turlojiske3.AG__BC_896__Cov_40.91%
0.04195473 Ukraine_Komarów_MBA:poz296__BC_1531__Cov_26.60%
0.04219841 Hungary_IA_LaTene_o3.AG:I25524.AG__BC_268__Cov_70. 85%
0.04239994 Slovakia_IA_Vekerzug.AG:I5287.AG__BC_575__Cov_87.8 4%
0.04282842 Hungary_IA_LaTene_o.AG:I18226.AG__BC_345__Cov_65.6 6%
0.04287077 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz663__BC_1526__Cov_13.67%
0.04341982 Poland_Trzciniec_MBA:poz694__BC_1321__Cov_28.63%
0.04352261 Hungary_Scythian:I20745__BC_550__Cov_41.57%



The inhabitant of the Grodek from 3rd century AD is a direct continuation of Trzciniec–Komarów and almost identical to the proto-Slav from Denmark (200 BC) and the Slavic Scythians. In my opinion, this is a hidden local Polish population concealed in cremation burials

[#Oda#]

Major conclusions from the paper:

Slavic migrations completely transformed genetic landscape of eastern, central and southeastern Europe

- Slavs replaced local population in Germany and Croatia up to 80%, less in northern Russia
- much of central and eastern Germany had Sorb like genetic profile and area was later re-Germanized in Ostsidelung
- modern Croats are less than 80% Slavic today, so post-medieval there was resurgence of local Balkan ancestry
- Poland is def. not the origin of proto Slavs and Germanic tribes lived in Poland before Slavs emigrated from the east and almost completely replaced old population
- proto Slavs already acquired EEF enriched ancestry in forest zone of northeastern Europe
- Slavic migrations included mass population movements with women and children, unlike Germanic warrior male dominated migrations
- Croatian medieval Slavs share more IBD with German medieval Slavs than both share with Polish Slav samples which is somewhat surprising
- R1a M458 is not a good marker of proto Slavs and seems it was Slavicized in central Europe already after formation of early Slavs. Two main early Slavic lineages are instead R1a Z280 and I2a Y3210.

I'm certain you can reduce that to Eastern Germany, but ask rothaer maybe.

[#Oda#]

My father's ancestors are from the Gomel region, a proto-Slavic region:thumb001:

Thank you, it’s interesting, there is a huge amount of contradictory information about the Scythians..

I'm missing your DNA test, btw :)

[Feiichy]

I'm certain you can reduce that to Eastern Germany, but ask rothaer maybe.

Herr rothaer teached us that ex DDR is central Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_German_Metropolitan_Region

:halo:

[KirillMazur]

I'm missing your DNA test, btw :)
I temporarily lost interest in this, as well as in the forum in general. I hope I will return to this.
By the way, in Russia only Genotek works, do you know if you can trust it? I just read (here) that the results of DNA tests in different services do not coincide with each other, and this makes this entertainment quite pointless.

[Peterski]

R1a M458 is not a good marker of proto Slavs and seems it was Slavicized in central Europe already after formation of early Slavs. Two main early Slavic lineages are instead R1a Z280 and I2a Y3210.

I doubt this, there are four big and relatively young (younger than 2750 years) subclades of M458 which exist in all Slavic countries - YP256, YP1337, L1029 and YP509. Soon there will be a genetic study about this (about Slavic Y-DNA) by Polish geneticist Michal Milewski published in "Human Genetics" journal.

[#Oda#]

I temporarily lost interest in this, as well as in the forum in general. I hope I will return to this.
By the way, in Russia only Genotek works, do you know if you can trust it? I just read (here) that the results of DNA tests in different services do not coincide with each other, and this makes this entertainment quite pointless.

Well, yes, that's an old story that they don't coincide, applying to the whole field of commercial tests for several reasons, like for example different names and divisions of regions, different references and more, but with some knowledge it's possible to put it together fairly good in spite of that meanwhile, even with MyH that has been an outlier as to quality for a long time.

[#Oda#]

Herr rothaer teached us that ex DDR is central Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_German_Metropolitan_Region

:halo:

Ah so ... Hm, I don't know. For me it's always been geographic Eastern Germany, except a strip in the very west.

EDIT: Coming to my mind, he takes other borders as a basis ofc, being an Edelnazi, so the centre would be more east and then I can agree to your statement.

[Wandal]

Major conclusions from the paper:

Slavic migrations completely transformed genetic landscape of eastern, central and southeastern Europe

- Slavs replaced local population in Germany and Croatia up to 80%, less in northern Russia
- much of central and eastern Germany had Sorb like genetic profile and area was later re-Germanized in Ostsidelung
- modern Croats are less than 80% Slavic today, so post-medieval there was resurgence of local Balkan ancestry
- Poland is def. not the origin of proto Slavs and Germanic tribes lived in Poland before Slavs emigrated from the east and almost completely replaced old population
- proto Slavs already acquired EEF enriched ancestry in forest zone of northeastern Europe
- Slavic migrations included mass population movements with women and children, unlike Germanic warrior male dominated migrations
- Croatian medieval Slavs share more IBD with German medieval Slavs than both share with Polish Slav samples which is somewhat surprising
- R1a M458 is not a good marker of proto Slavs and seems it was Slavicized in central Europe already after formation of early Slavs. Two main early Slavic lineages are instead R1a Z280 and I2a Y3210.

Complete nonsense and ignorance.
You are just spitting up stuff overfed to you through "academic" propaganda.

[Wandal]

Ah so ... Hm, I don't know. For me it's always been geographic Eastern Germany, except a strip in the very west.

EDIT: Coming to my mind, he takes other borders as a basis ofc, being an Edelnazi, so the centre would be more east and then I can agree to your statement.

Such nonsense. More accurate would be to say that "Eastern Germany" is the old home of Połabscy ("Beyond the Elbe"). One of the main Venedovian cult centres was on current German territory.
The original inhabitants of Germany were an Alpinid race and were conquered by the British (Phoenicians) in 950 BC. That is the main source of Nordic influence in Germany.

[Peterski]

There is an upcoming study about Polish Y-DNA haplogroups by my friend who is a geneticist.

It will be published in "Human Genetics" journal. According to this upcoming study 60% of Polish males belong to as few as 23 lineages (including 16 lineages within haplogroup R1a) all of which are younger than 2750 years (so they emerged in the Iron Age because the end of the Bronze Age in East-Central Europe is dated to the middle of the 8th century BCE). I already have the manuscript of this study and I would share excerpts and graphs with you, but I promised not to publicize it before official publication. This study will support the idea of an Iron Age origin of Slavs from a relatively small founder population.

[Dardanos]

Such nonsense. More accurate would be to say that "Eastern Germany" is the old home of Połabscy ("Beyond the Elbe"). One of the main Venedovian cult centres was on current German territory.
The original inhabitants of Germany were an Alpinid race and were conquered by the British (Phoenicians) in 950 BC. That is the main source of Nordic influence in Germany.

The Polish cousin of the Serbian user "Novi Pazar"...

[Wandal]

There is an upcoming study about Polish Y-DNA haplogroups by my friend who is a geneticist.

It will be published in "Human Genetics" journal. According to this upcoming study 60% of Polish males belong to as few as 23 lineages (including 16 lineages within haplogroup R1a) all of which are younger than 2750 years (so they emerged in the Iron Age because the end of the Bronze Age in East-Central Europe is dated to the middle of the 8th century BCE). I already have the manuscript of this study and I would share excerpts and graphs with you, but I promised not to publicize it before official publication. This study will support the idea of an Iron Age origin of Slavs from a relatively small founder population.

Regardless of any such "studies" which are usually just a farce of propaganda which will use "carefully selected samples", the idea that Venedovian ancestors originated 725 BC is preposterous and ridiculous. They just suddenly appeared a complete nation by the Azov Sea region out of nowhere? Common sense alone says this is impossible.

[Wandal]

Just research information on the ancient city of Arkaim in Russia and the connection to geography in the Sanskrit Vedas.