Skopje Urban Renewal [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

poiuytrewq0987

01-22-2012, 12:50 PM

Currently, Skopje is undergoing a total transformation of its city center and the surrounding areas. Largely to update the look of the city which hasn't saw many new buildings since the communist reconstruction of the earthquake-devastated city. A lot of amazing new buildings are being constructed completely internally by Macedonian architects and laborers.

New Supreme Court on left:

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/33/preview2011010365086356.jpg

New pedestrian bridge:

http://www.artmargins.com/content/art/koteska/2011-12-29/04.jpg

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/9966/eyebridgeskopje.jpg

Museum of Macedonian National Struggle on right, and I think the left one will be the national theater:

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/8666/preview2011010365086731.jpg

http://republiquedemacedoine.com/cms/images/stories/120104-skopje-0732-Panorama-1600.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bSdnzg6w4O4/Twtvca7-DVI/AAAAAAAAAiw/3uipSJAXLZk/s1600/DSC01007.JPG

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh141/Ristowski/watermark8i.jpg

The national theater's design is actually derived from the old one before it was destroyed by the earthquake in 1964.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/7547/theater02.jpg

and here's what old Skopje looked like:

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs255.snc1/10216_1250474179227_1150658380_30788510_2954107_n. jpg

Panorama of city center:

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/613/panoramaskopje20120115p.jpg

poiuytrewq0987

01-22-2012, 12:52 PM

Triumph Arch dedicated to the struggle for our independence:

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/35586/hdr_porta.jpg

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/1/Razno/Spomenici%20i%20skulpturi/Triumfalna%20kapija%200730.jpg

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/1/Razno/Spomenici%20i%20skulpturi/Triumfalna%20kapija%200728.jpg

handicap-friendly stairs:

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/1/Razno/Spomenici%20i%20skulpturi/Triumfalna%20kapija%200729.jpg

from the top of the arch:

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/1/Razno/Spomenici%20i%20skulpturi/Triumfalna%20kapija%200731.jpg

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/1/Razno/Spomenici%20i%20skulpturi/Triumfalna%20kapija%200732.jpg

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/1/Razno/Spomenici%20i%20skulpturi/Triumfalna%20kapija%200708.jpg

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/1/Razno/Spomenici%20i%20skulpturi/Triumfalna%20kapija%200601.jpg

poiuytrewq0987

01-22-2012, 01:02 PM

The new Ministry of Foreign Affairs building:

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/1/Proekti/Administrativni/MNR/Ministerstvo%20za%20nadvoresni%20raboti%200401.jpg

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/1/Proekti/Administrativni/MNR/Ministerstvo%20za%20nadvoresni%20raboti%200408.jpg

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/5262/dsc01755k.jpg

http://www.artmargins.com/content/art/koteska/2011-12-29/09.jpg

poiuytrewq0987

01-22-2012, 01:06 PM

More pictures of the new national theater:

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4013/dsc01709ri.jpg

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4745/dsc01714oc.jpg

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8646/dsc01716c.jpg

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/6480/dsc01724q.jpg

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1337/dsc01727f.jpg

poiuytrewq0987

01-22-2012, 01:12 PM

huh to be honest Skopje 2014 is a failed project.Millions of euroes were spent on meaningless statues and the renewal is solely concentrated in the centre of the city.Skopje provinces are damn hell un developed.

Failure? Our new city center is beautiful. :thumbs up

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/7361/20111029630032153096c88.jpg

Siberyak

01-22-2012, 01:13 PM

Failure? Our new city center is beautiful. :thumbs up

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/7361/20111029630032153096c88.jpg

I think he means Kosovo is a failed project.

poiuytrewq0987

01-22-2012, 01:20 PM

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6042/6287145628_58c66a689e_b.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6039/6254855699_8902be49bc_b.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6154/6255387694_ca98796cda_b.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6120/6243552784_afc7c70e61_b.jpg

Old facade:

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9757/pelisterbefore.jpg

New facade:

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/355/20111022135307.jpg

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/1/Razno/Spomenici%20i%20skulpturi/Aleksandar%20Veliki%20Plostad%20Makedonija/Spomenik%20Aleksandar%20Veliki%200901.jpg

morski

01-22-2012, 01:26 PM

The national theater's design is actually derived from the old one before it was destroyed by the earthquake in 1964.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/7547/theater02.jpg

Built by the fascist Bulgarian occupier 41-44.

poiuytrewq0987

01-22-2012, 01:28 PM

A sweet stone gazebo:

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7363/58984483.jpg

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/9026/59119587.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/10mil2e.jpg

Padre Organtino

01-22-2012, 01:29 PM

Looks a bit artificial to me. And honestly pompous city center with underdeveloped outskirts is not exactly an ideal of a European city either.

poiuytrewq0987

01-22-2012, 01:32 PM

Yeah taking a snapshot from a position and with lightning effect makes beautiful indeed.The city centre has changed drastically but with the amount of moneys that were spent it is not reasonable.Criticism comes even from Macedonian side including architects.

I don't give a shit about how much money is being spent. The project is creating jobs, employing both Macedonians and Albanians, and renewing the communist wreck of a city to make it look more proper European city.

http://i51.tinypic.com/25u2wjp.jpg

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/9526/panorama3r.jpg

poiuytrewq0987

01-22-2012, 01:33 PM

Looks a bit artificial to me. And honestly pompous city center with underdeveloped outskirts is not exactly and ideal of European city either.

Rome wasn't built overnight.

Flintlocke

01-22-2012, 01:35 PM

Where'd the guvnment find the money for all this?

poiuytrewq0987

01-22-2012, 01:36 PM

Where'd the guvnment find the money for all this?

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonia-turns-into-nation-of-taxpayers

Flintlocke

01-22-2012, 01:38 PM

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonia-turns-into-nation-of-taxpayers

Impressive, but I think there's foreign aid money pouring in. Don't seem to me that all this can be built by taxpayer's money alone.

Rron

01-22-2012, 01:41 PM

They are trying to adopt their fake identity in any way.

poiuytrewq0987

01-22-2012, 01:41 PM

Impressive, but I think there's foreign aid money pouring in. Don't seem to me that all this can be built by taxpayer's money alone.

We don't get foreign aid. The only aid we got recently was a EU loan for the building of corridor 8 highway. We have an annual revenue of around $3 billion and half. The project is probably costing us about $250 million dollars but it's money well-spent.

Rron

01-22-2012, 01:44 PM

We don't get foreign aid. The only aid we got recently was a EU loan for the building of corridor 8 highway. We have an annual revenue of around $3 billion and half. The project is probably costing us about $250 million dollars but it's money well-spent.
Are you Fyromian from Macedonia?

poiuytrewq0987

01-22-2012, 01:44 PM

http://plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2011/09/09/ROB379-MACEDONIA-0379.zip_resize.jpg

http://plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2011/09/09/ROB380-MACEDONIA-0380.zip_resize.jpg

http://plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2011/09/09/ROB382-MACEDONIA-0382.zip_resize.jpg

http://plusinfo.cfd.mk/large_gal/2011/09/09/ROB385-MACEDONIA-0385.zip_resize.jpg

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/5318/skopjemk201.jpg

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7374/skopjemk206.jpg

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/2743/skopjemk207.jpg

morski

01-22-2012, 01:46 PM

http://sitel.com.mk/dnevnik/biznis/stavreski-dojche-bank-i-siti-bank-ponudija-povolen-zaem-od-130-milioni-evra

poiuytrewq0987

01-22-2012, 01:56 PM

What employement?You call construction jobs progressive in economical sense?

So many youngsters are unemployed in Macedonia,they try their luck in Western World.In fact if there wasn't the outside diaspora sending moneys there the citizens would be even more poor.

The construction industry isn't just about building new buildings but also maintaining them to keep them in good shape. It's a lot of things. For example, the industry in the UK is worth 1.5 billion pounds. That's a LOT of money and investment. Obviously, it's nowhere close in Macedonia but it's only the beginning. As I said, Rome wasn't built overnight, and the same applies to Skopje. It won't be built overnight, but things will get better by time.

poiuytrewq0987

01-22-2012, 01:57 PM

http://sitel.com.mk/dnevnik/biznis/stavreski-dojche-bank-i-siti-bank-ponudija-povolen-zaem-od-130-milioni-evra

Why don't you concern yourself with matters in your country?

morski

01-22-2012, 01:57 PM

morski

01-22-2012, 01:59 PM

Why don't you concern yourself with matters in your country?

These matters concern my country as well. FYROM is a neighbour, tens of thousands of people from FYROM are now Bulgarian citizens as well, there are about 3 million people in Bulgaria with ancestral ties to this land.

Styggnacke

01-22-2012, 01:59 PM

Don't look too impressive in my opinion and the Alexander statue is just blasphemy.

poiuytrewq0987

01-22-2012, 02:01 PM

These matters concern my country as well. FYROM is a neighbour, tens of thousands of people from FYROM are now Bulgarian citizens as well, there are about 3 million people in Bulgaria with ancestral ties to this land.

They only get Bulgar citizenship because it's easy to get it and they wouldn't even do if there was no incentive of easy entry into the EU with Bulgar passport.

My country does not matter to you because it is my country. Now, please leave this thread and take your nationalist sentiments with you.

morski

01-22-2012, 02:03 PM

It's not your country, macedonist!

poiuytrewq0987

01-22-2012, 02:18 PM

We're also looking to renovate the facade of the current government building. What they're doing is having people vote on one of the five possible facades. I think so far the second one is winning.

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/8818/skpp.png

More here: http://www.vlada.mk/anketa_vlada#

Fortis in Arduis

01-22-2012, 04:50 PM

Rome wasn't built overnight.

Nor was Ancient Greece, but in Skopje, the *Macedonians* can plop a few neo-classical facades onto a framework of concrete and steel! :D

I jest, but it does look quite nice actually. ;)

A similar thing was done with a nasty 70's shopping centre in Bath near where I live.

Bath is a UNESCO World Heritage Site of original Roman (hot spring baths, hence the name 'Bath') and later, 18th C Palladian revival, and the old shopping centre was a total eyesore.

The stonework facades were made in Italy and assembled in situ.

Before:

http://www.therubbleclub.com/wp-content/themes/arras-theme/library/timthumb.php?src=http://www.therubbleclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/southgate-roofline.jpg&w=630&h=250&zc=1

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2284/1756641080_d6614be2f2.jpg

After:

http://www.tcengineering.co.uk/IMAGES/southgate1.jpg

http://lds.localdataimages.com/large/1220/12208728.jpg

http://www.bcsc.org.uk/goldawards/photos10/southgate.jpg

http://www.wearerock.co.uk/images/projects/project_1279711739_1.jpg

http://www.bath-stone.co.uk/images/fp_southgate_bath_lrg.jpg

The older town has buildings like my avatar and signature, and the Southgate Centre (http://www.southgatebath.com/) tries to look like a slightly later Regency continuation of that.

So, yes, it can be done and it does work and the before shots stand to show that very ugly buildings can happen even in capitalist societies. :eek:

morski

01-22-2012, 05:06 PM

To give the "Macedonians" the credit they deserve:

The restored St Panteleimon monastery near Ohrid.
http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/melann411/melann4111011/melann411101100034/8271497-st-panteleimon-monastery-in-ohrid-macedonia.jpg
http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/304825/304825,1264317083,4/stock-photo-st-clement-s-monastery-of-st-panteleimon-at-plaosnik-in-ohrid-macedonia-45138376.jpg
http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/melann411/melann4111011/melann411101100036/8271595-st-panteleimon-monastery-in-popular-tourist-destination-of-ohrid-macedonia.jpg

Queen B

01-22-2012, 05:14 PM

A country with more than 35% unemployment, spends millions in untastefull renovation.

Queen B

01-22-2012, 05:29 PM

I would rather advice you to take care of your country. (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/default.aspx?pageid=438&n=more-and-more-greeks-seek-work-in-turkey-2010-11-15)

Said who? An Albanian? Get back the -more than 1 million - of your compatriots, and the talk about it.

But even with the crisis, even with millions of immigrants, we have half the unemployment that Fyrom has.

And we don't build ugly statues (we have them since antiquity) and if we did (and not during bad economic times) we don't brag about em !

The article - however- is rediculous. A Greek will go
1) to a country that won't have problems with papers and permit
2) A country with bigger salary than Greece has (so can sent back to Greece, what's left)
3) A country with a strong Greek community.

Yes, lately many Greeks are leaving the country. To US, Canada, Australia, UK or Germany. As they did in the past.

Γέλως

01-22-2012, 05:39 PM

A lot of theses constructions really look like cheap replicas. Nevermind...if the lift the "Macedonian" morale...

Fortis in Arduis

01-22-2012, 05:56 PM

A lot of theses constructions really look like cheap replicas. Nevermind...if the lift the "Macedonian" morale...

People probably said that about Otto I's buildings in Athens.

Treffie

01-22-2012, 05:57 PM

Are any of these new buildings earthquake proof?

Queen B

01-22-2012, 06:17 PM

People probably said that about Otto I's buildings in Athens.

Probably. But still, you can't compare enormous, ugly copper statues like these
http://images.inews.gr/hlarge/62-Letter-from-All-Pan-Macedonian-Association-to-UN-and-EU-regarding-the-Statue-of-Alexander-the-Great-in-Skopje.jpg
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/02/2d/7c/16/macedonia-square.jpg
http://www.moveoneinc.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/lion.jpg
http://www.build.mk/docs/users/cloverstack/spomenici/karpos%2005.jpg

With this

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_KCuHoU9QBUU/ScM33jioHzI/AAAAAAAAPv8/9aPB4rJNZ8M/s400/2370463.jpg
http://www.athens-greece.us/athens-guide/academy-of-athens/academy-of-athens.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wZN0LT525n8/TY9QEo3j4_I/AAAAAAAABM8/5v9B_FFC4Ck/s1600/ethniki_bibliothiki.jpg

askra

01-22-2012, 06:39 PM

Fortis in Arduis

01-22-2012, 08:19 PM

i don't like
great part of these projects are only replicas of architectonic styles of the past, but built with reinforced concrete, they look fake and anachronistic for a urban renewal of a european capital in 21st century.

Yes, but if beautiful historical buildings were lost in an earthquake/war/communist building spree, then why not create something which alludes to what was originally there?

There is an entirely reconstructed "Old Town" in Minsk, and it looks lovely.

Minesweeper

01-22-2012, 08:27 PM

You are just Slavs, nothing more. Build a whole new Skoplje, build a new Athens if you want but this fact remains.

iNird

01-22-2012, 08:31 PM

You all are haters. If you don't think spending millions on historical statues, that have little relevance to FYROM, is a good idea you are clueless. Yeah FYROM has high unemployment, so what? Yes some FYROMian village do not have proper roads, water, electricity, so what? Yes these same villagers have no jobs and rely on the money from migrant workers, so the fck what? Spending millions on the capital while the world is going through a world recession means nothing. Yes half the FYROMian citizen would cut off their father's left nut father to leave the country but that's besides the point.

We are building history. We are building our identity. WE ARE BUILDING MACEDONIA!!!!!!!!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9gU-kONwaH0/TwyaZ3--brI/AAAAAAABAmI/w-e__UfpTY8/s1600/Macedonia_Flag9.gif

Gaztelu

01-22-2012, 08:32 PM

Welcome back Dushan.

askra

01-22-2012, 09:48 PM

Yes, but if beautiful historical buildings were lost in an earthquake/war/communist building spree, then why not create something which alludes to what was originally there?

There is an entirely reconstructed "Old Town" in Minsk, and it looks lovely.

something of similar was realised also in Dresden, but they have rebuilt faithfully to the original appearance every building destroyed by the bombings, but in this case they look fake copies of the original ones,
moreover i'm not sure that all these new buildings existed before the earthquake,
did this Triumphal Arch exist before the earthquake?
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Images/Images.New/Places/Skopje/Triumphal%20Arch/P1200052.JPG
and this museum?
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Museum%20of%20VMRO.jpg

here there are hundreds photos of Skopje in the past:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=303161

Vasconcelos

01-22-2012, 10:19 PM

As a civil engineering student I say this is very nice, but......how much will the whole project cost?

It reminded me of the "pharaonic projects" that were done here in Portugal and that endebted us for €Hiroshima

Fortis in Arduis

01-23-2012, 11:23 AM

Something of a similar nature was also realised in Dresden, but they rebuilt faithfully to the original appearance. In this case they look like fake copies of the original ones.

Moreover I'm not sure that all these new buildings existed before the earthquake.

The triumphal arch, which every country has to have (lol), is obviously a new project with massive Freemasonic symbolism, and the museum is clearly a new municipal buildling.

The other buildlings actually look true to the vernacular neo-classical styles of the past when compared to such buildings on that thread from Skyscraper City, even if they are a little grander.

poiuytrewq0987

01-23-2012, 11:35 AM

You are just Slavs, nothing more. Build a whole new Skoplje, build a new Athens if you want but this fact remains.

True, we're the Russians of the Balkans. We're same genetically and linguistically with the Russians in Russia. It's all part of our secret evil plan to reconquer the Balkans and re-Russify you folks.

poiuytrewq0987

02-07-2012, 07:44 PM

ProMKD

02-26-2012, 04:53 PM

The arch looks great! It's even better in person, especially considering that space was wasted before.

poiuytrewq0987

03-07-2012, 04:03 PM

http://kurir.mk/images/stories/2012/03/06/maketa1-500.jpg

The buildings are to be built in the Skopje suburb of Aerodrom. They are to be completed by 2017.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/20517/45/

poiuytrewq0987

04-27-2012, 02:50 PM

Updates!

http://i41.tinypic.com/taj2nk.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/nybw4y.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/f9o4nl.jpg

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/1/Proekti/Administrativni/MNR/Ministerstvo%20za%20nadvoresni%20raboti%200602.jpg

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1534/2012031269932378.jpg

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/9155/teatar.jpg

http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s403/tiberix/SKOPJE%202014/USK2014_1.jpg

http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s403/tiberix/SKOPJE%202014/USK2014_4.jpg

http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s403/tiberix/SKOPJE%202014/Untitled_ST2_BLD.jpg

http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s403/tiberix/SKOPJE%202014/Untitled_SKO_BLD.jpg

http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s403/tiberix/SKOPJE%202014/Untitled_SK2_BLD.jpg

Methmatician

04-27-2012, 02:53 PM

I love Skopje, it's the most beautiful city I've visited. :thumbs up

iNird

04-27-2012, 04:22 PM

I love Skopje, it's the most beautiful city I've visited. :thumbs up

It's not even the most "beautiful " city in FYROM.

Secondly I don't think you have visited many cities based on your claim.

Wildland

04-27-2012, 07:55 PM

Probably. But still, you can't compare enormous, ugly copper statues like these

http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/02/2d/7c/16/macedonia-square.jpg

I heard the sword is pointing in direction towards Greece.

Queen B

04-27-2012, 08:25 PM

I heard the sword is pointing in direction towards Greece.
Alexander's hometown :wink

Aramis

04-27-2012, 08:28 PM

Oh, so that's were the money from the IMF went!

Wildland

04-27-2012, 08:30 PM

Oh, so that's were the money from the IMF went!

You are confusing two countries. We don't have any debts :)

Padre Organtino

04-27-2012, 08:33 PM

Can I have a look at how well are the other Macedonian towns doing?

Hayalet

04-27-2012, 09:30 PM

New Supreme Court on left:

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/33/preview2011010365086356.jpg

Updates!

http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s403/tiberix/SKOPJE%202014/Untitled_SKO_BLD.jpg
Not much progress here. Maybe they are building too many at a time?

Methmatician

04-28-2012, 12:41 AM

It's not even the most "beautiful " city in FYROM.

Secondly I don't think you have visited many cities based on your claim.

Maybe not to you, but it is to me.

Midori

04-28-2012, 12:45 AM

Can I have a look at how well are the other Macedonian towns doing?

You don't wanna see... trust me :lol:

alb0zfinest

04-28-2012, 01:04 AM

The new arch looks great at nighttime. :D Just need to renovate the facade of the buildings around the arch to make it look perfect.
http://www.b92.net/news/pics/2012/01/19288033844f084ed1489d7928174158_v4big.jpg

Like this:

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/355/20111022135307.jpg

The structure in the second picture looks like a building in Prishtine. Anyways looks like they're making quick progress and the plan itself is pretty good. :)

Vojnik

04-28-2012, 03:51 AM

morski

04-28-2012, 09:55 AM

:rolleyes:
http://vbox7.com/play:22a5a3f2

jerney

04-28-2012, 02:57 PM

Aqua park to be built in Skopje. This will be fantastic for tourism.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2z7lmdf.jpg

Wahooo! AquaPark
T3W0Qv4TXjg

I haven't heard of there being a theme park like this anywhere in the Balkans.

lol. That tiny little thing doesn't even compare to the numerous Greek ones.

http://www.water-park.gr/home.html (Rhodes)
http://www.aqualand-corfu.com/ (Corfu) *Aqualand Corfu, largest water park in Greece and third in Europe
http://www.koswaterpark.com/info1.php (Kos)
http://www.zantewatervillage.gr/attractions/ (Zakynthos)
http://www.waterland.gr/#/experience (Thessaloniki)
http://www.watercity.gr/watergames.php (Crete)
http://www.acquaplus.gr/index.php?menu_id=3 (Crete) *first water park in the Balkan region
http://www.breathtakingathens.com/node/4389 (Athens)
http://www.limnoupolis.gr/en/games.php (Crete)

alb0zfinest

04-28-2012, 09:46 PM

This project is condemned Disney land of the balkans.

Crn Volk

04-30-2012, 01:00 AM

Can I have a look at how well are the other Macedonian towns doing?

Tetovo

http://www.tetova.gov.mk/sireta/t/20110510101211.jpg

http://www.tetova.gov.mk/sireta/t/20110510101318.jpg

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac136/AmonRa_01/Rem.jpg

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac136/AmonRa_01/P260511_1413.jpg

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/cloverstack/razno/teatar%20i%20biblioteka%20tetovo/03.jpg

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac136/AmonRa_01/Tetovo/P101210_1201.jpg

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac136/AmonRa_01/Tetovo/P101210_1202.jpg

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac136/AmonRa_01/IMG_0341.jpg

Renovations along the river in Tetovo

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/djurob_bucket/3-5.jpg
http://www.tetova.gov.mk/sireta/m/20100922123206.jpg

cossackpride

04-30-2012, 01:05 AM

Macedonia :thumb001:

I reckon when we go collect the debt from the Greeks, our Macedonian Allies will be an important staging ground.

poiuytrewq0987

04-30-2012, 01:41 AM

The construction of the first of three planned domes on the roof of Parliament building today was put into place. It is one of the two smaller domes with a radius of four meters, which are set out in the corners of the frontal side of the building. Additionally provided is a large central dome with a radius of 17 meters. For their design, construction and installation is tasked "Fakom." Domes are part of the project also includes extension and upgrading of the Assembly, adaptation and strengthening of the structural system and restore the facade. The main contractor is construction company "concrete" from Skopje, the deal won at the end of 2009.

http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s403/tiberix/SKOPJE%202014/2SOBBLD.jpg

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/1/Proekti/Administrativni/Sobranie%20na%20RM/Republicko%20Sobranie%20viz0102.jpg

dralos

04-30-2012, 01:52 AM

cossackpride

04-30-2012, 01:54 AM

so many ideas so little money, i know for an instance that those projects in tetova never ever gonna happen or mayby if an albo completes them with his own money but not with the money of the fyrom goverment

It could be a good investment scheme in the long run. If you build a safe clean capital with various amenities, you'll attract foreign investors and tourists (preferably the non-sexual kind).

dralos

04-30-2012, 01:57 AM

It could be a good investment scheme in the long run. If you build a safe clean capital with various amenities, you'll attract foreign investors and tourists (preferably the non-sexual kind).
yeah it would be good but this aint realistic there is no money for it,it's all just a scheme especially those investments in albanian parts,they never invest there only alboz themself keep those places alive we built invest there

Grizzly

04-30-2012, 02:08 AM

It could be a good investment scheme in the long run. If you build a safe clean capital with various amenities, you'll attract foreign investors and tourists (preferably the non-sexual kind).

If the gov't really want to invest in the country there's numerous things they can do. One for instance is improving the roads, especially in the cities. Some cities have abysmal roads that were built in the early 20th century filled with potholes and all other problems in the center of the city. There's more cement in the Alexander statue then there are in roads..

500mil Euro's was spend on the Skopje 2014 project. That money could have been spent on improving infrastructure, improving education,etc, which will lead to long term investment.

However, I don't think the project is a utter failure. Shkup/Skopje is an attractive city. Hopefully it does bring some big time investment

Guapo

04-30-2012, 02:09 AM

yeah it would be good but this aint realistic there is no money for it,it's all just a scheme especially those investments in albanian parts,they never invest there only alboz themself keep those places alive we built invest there

with Drug money

dralos

04-30-2012, 02:10 AM

with Drug money
now with the money of our serbian gf's:D

Guapo

04-30-2012, 02:11 AM

now with the money of our serbian gf's:D

you're too fat to have a gf.

dralos

04-30-2012, 02:12 AM

you're too fat to have a gf.
fat or not they serbian chickz dont mind,ask niggaz:D

poiuytrewq0987

04-30-2012, 02:13 AM

The construction of the new city mall and what it'll look like after it's done:

http://www.fotografija.com.mk/images/zptrgovski.jpg

http://www.g-centers.com/images/projs/Skopia-mall.jpg

cossackpride

04-30-2012, 02:14 AM

with Drug money

Nope. Look at all the Chinese in Canada and Australia. China + India + Pakistan are overflowing with both people and money, and corrupt officials like to stash their money (and relocate their sons) to the West.

Guapo

04-30-2012, 02:15 AM

Nope. Look at all the Chinese in Canada and Australia. China + India + Pakistan are overflowing with both people and money, and corrupt officials like to stash their money (and relocate their sons) to the West.

you dont know alboz

Guapo

04-30-2012, 02:16 AM

The construction of the new city mall and what it'll look like after it's done:

http://www.fotografija.com.mk/images/zptrgovski.jpg

http://www.g-centers.com/images/projs/Skopia-mall.jpg

cant wait to visit Skoplje when its done

dralos

04-30-2012, 02:16 AM

you dont know alboz
you're a spaniard who lives in new mexico what makes you think you know us,amigo:D

cossackpride

04-30-2012, 02:20 AM

you dont know alboz

Sure I do. I bring $20 and get 'good time' at night scene. :)

poiuytrewq0987

04-30-2012, 02:20 AM

The planned tri-skyscrapers:

http://novamakedonija.com.mk/Uploads/News/100%5B3%5D.jpg

Three skyscrapers, to be built on land opposite the hotel "Holiday Inn" and to finally urbanize the entire area around Drvodekor. Dragan Simonovski, spokesman of the Ministry of Transport and Communications, says that the only thing that stops construction of the skyscrapers is the procedure of denationalization that leads to this land. Construction can not begin until the complete procedure for restitution, to follow and revocation of user rights of the owners of part of building land plot.

The purpose is collective housing, temporary housing, public institutions, and commercial and business purposes. The three towers will be mutually connected blocks, which will be cascaded down to the quay of Vardar River. Parking is addressed in an underground parking space on three levels, which will serve the routes from underground to pass through the city center.

poiuytrewq0987

04-30-2012, 02:21 AM

The renovated Ottoman mosque:

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee251/djurob_bucket/IMG_7041.jpg

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/cloverstack/religiski/MustafaPasina%20Dzamija%2001%2003.jpg

dralos

04-30-2012, 02:22 AM

Sure I do. I bring $20 and get 'good time' at night scene. :)
you're ukranian right,so you should probably be an expert about the ukranian nightscene:D(guessing from all those lovely ukranian actresses)

Grizzly

04-30-2012, 02:22 AM

you dont know alboz

judging by your posts neither do you

cossackpride

04-30-2012, 02:34 AM

you're ukranian right,so you should probably be an expert about the ukranian nightscene:D(guessing from all those lovely ukranian actresses)

No I was born in N. America.. but I did go pub crawling in Ukrainya. :eek:

dralos

04-30-2012, 02:37 AM

No I was born in N. America.. but I did go pub crawling in Ukrainya. :eek:
doesnt matter,you've plenty of ukranian actricess who are working on the nightscenes in N.america;)

cossackpride

04-30-2012, 02:39 AM

doesnt matter,you've plenty of ukranian actricess who are working on the nightscenes in N.america;)

Well not just actresses.. even Ukrainian-Canadian women often go to the nightscene in Canada and wait for men to buy them drinks (they put on makeup, do their hair and wear a dress and they look just like a girl in Old Country. Anglo men ignore Anglo women and buy drinks for these Canadian-Ukrainian girls. :thumb001: )

dralos

04-30-2012, 02:41 AM

Well not just actresses.. even Ukrainian-Canadian women often go to the nightscene in Canada and wait for men to buy them drinks (they put on makeup, do their hair and wear a dress and they look just like a girl in Old Country. Anglo men ignore Anglo women and buy drinks for these Canadian-Ukrainian girls. :thumb001: )
those girls embarass us,they are a shame,they are kinda prostituting themself

poiuytrewq0987

04-30-2012, 02:41 AM

Pelister Before:

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9757/pelisterbefore.jpg

After:

http://i41.tinypic.com/nybw4y.jpg

Philip Stadium before:

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/cloverstack/stadioni/arena%20filip%20vtori%2018%2013.jpg

After:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/NacionalnaArenaPhilipIIofMacedonia.jpg/800px-NacionalnaArenaPhilipIIofMacedonia.jpg

Kavadarci river before (city in South Macedonia):

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5/46797833.jpg

After:

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7931/59260778.jpg

Restored Church:

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/903/2466669857286414bc24buf9.jpg

poiuytrewq0987

04-30-2012, 02:48 AM

New apartment buildings

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/cloverstack/RAZNO/RC%20Aerodrom/Reonski%20Centar%20Aerodrom%2001%2006.JPG

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/cloverstack/RAZNO/RC%20Aerodrom/Reonski%20Centar%20Aerodrom%2001%2010.JPG

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/cloverstack/RAZNO/RC%20Aerodrom/Reonski%20Centar%20Aerodrom%2001%2001.JPG

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/cloverstack/RAZNO/Boming%20DNKkod%2001%201.JPG

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/buildmk/DSCN1650.jpg

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt81/buildmk/DSCN1649.jpg

poiuytrewq0987

04-30-2012, 02:53 AM

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/9155/teatar.jpg

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee81/rainman5925/02_S_Teatarnight_View010000.jpg

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee81/rainman5925/2_GOLEMA_S_14.jpg

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee81/rainman5925/10_direktor_00202.jpg

cossackpride

04-30-2012, 02:56 AM

poiuytrewq0987

04-30-2012, 02:59 AM

If I were a rich Arab / Pakistani looking for a cheap woman, this is the place I would stay in.

This apartment is probably only $50,000 and I bet is a few blocks from Downtown.

What kind of dumb post is this? Most of the new apartment buildings are located in Aerodrom and not exactly next doors to Skopje downtown.

poiuytrewq0987

04-30-2012, 03:11 AM

The new national bank building:

http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s403/tiberix/SKOPJE%202014/U_NB1.jpg

What it'll look like when it's done:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/24966_380658658152_690948152_3745229_8156739_n.jpg

poiuytrewq0987

04-30-2012, 03:15 AM

Improved roads:

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/cloverstack/PATISTA/M-4%20SSO/Severna%20Obikolnica%20Skopje%2002%20104.jpg

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/cloverstack/PATISTA/M-4%20SSO/Severna%20Obikolnica%20Skopje%2002%20105.jpg

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/cloverstack/PATISTA/M-4%20SSO/Severna%20Obikolnica%20Skopje%2002%20114.jpg

cossackpride

04-30-2012, 03:16 AM

So when will Macedonian government print a bochure for Chinese Billionaires? :confused:

poiuytrewq0987

05-04-2012, 02:45 PM

The planned church in plostad.

http://i42.tinypic.com/ifmsg9.jpg

Vojnik

05-04-2012, 11:55 PM

The planned church in plostad.

http://i42.tinypic.com/ifmsg9.jpg

It will look fantastic in the heart of Skopje :thumbs up, but, I am afraid that certain people will object to the construction, yous know who im talking about.

Guapo

05-05-2012, 12:55 AM

macedonian girls a re knockouts

Petros Houhoulis

05-07-2012, 08:48 PM

Tetovo
...

That's quite right. The only two places that shall be upgraded are the two capitals of the dual country.

The rest...

Anyway, I don't have time to explain the repercussions of this folly. Nevertheless, for a short explanation one does not have to go beyond the modern monstrosity called Athens which grew from a tiny village of 5.000 people 2 centuries ago to a total mess of >4 million people today...

poiuytrewq0987

05-07-2012, 09:03 PM

That's quite right. The only two places that shall be upgraded are the two capitals of the dual country.

Enjoy trolling? :coffee:

The rest...

Anyway, I don't have time to explain the repercussions of this folly. Nevertheless, for a short explanation one does not have to go beyond the modern monstrosity called Athens which grew from a tiny village of 5.000 people 2 centuries ago to a total mess of >4 million people today...

You're right, Athens is Europe's Cairo. But at least Cairo has some nice architecture. I think all Athens have is a bunch of collapsed buildings on a hill? :confused:

Guapo

05-08-2012, 12:48 AM

Long live Macedonia and skopje!

Queen B

05-08-2012, 08:52 AM

Padre Organtino

05-08-2012, 09:02 AM

I liked the river and the stadium. Oh, and the Church is pretty cool, too. I prefer Balkan Orthodox style both to Russian and Georgian ones.
Everything else is not bad per se but nothing special - like a more modest version of what they do in say Baku and Astana.

The Lawspeaker

05-08-2012, 09:47 AM

If one's looking at the pictures one would assume that Skopje has the same geopolitical and cultural importance as Berlin or Paris. It's a bit like a small boy wearing a big man's suit.

Petros Houhoulis

05-08-2012, 05:44 PM

Enjoy trolling? :coffee:

You're right, Athens is Europe's Cairo. But at least Cairo has some nice architecture. I think all Athens have is a bunch of collapsed buildings on a hill? :confused:

Have you actually been in Athens or even in Cairo?

Excuse me, but I've been in Skopje quite a few times, and this is where I truly learnt the meaning of the word "squalor"...

What you actually managed was to create a Skopje at the "Centar", while the peripheral parts of the city are still Uskub*...

At least Athens is beginning to lose some of its' citizens who got tired of the lawlessness and the illegal immigrants. Effectively, this means that the situation is actually getting better, but not good enough for my taste of course.

*"Uskub" i.e. Gypsies, no proper roads, tin city favellas, squalor e.t.c.

Romanion

05-08-2012, 06:09 PM

Whether they have the money or not, they are making Skopje look good. So much hate from people who want to see FYROM fail.

The Lawspeaker

05-08-2012, 07:03 PM

Whether they have the money or not, they are making Skopje look good. So much hate from people who want to see FYROM fail.
Well.. I don't want to be taxed in order to save a bankrupt Macedonia etc.

Queen B

05-08-2012, 07:24 PM

Whether they have the money or not, they are making Skopje look good. So much hate from people who want to see FYROM fail.
Its already a fail.

Aramis

05-08-2012, 07:35 PM

Its already a fail.

How so? Faill in what sense?

Romanion

05-08-2012, 07:40 PM

Well.. I don't want to be taxed in order to save a bankrupt Macedonia etc.

They are not in the Euro.

Its already a fail.

Their history is a fail, but they havn't managed to break apart even though they have albanian terrorists trying to provoke trouble.

When Greece and FYROM come to a comprimise of the name, relations will get alot better I believe.

The Lawspeaker

05-08-2012, 09:18 PM

They are not in the Euro.

I would expect from a Greek that he knows the European Union better: they would simply help Macedonia for strategic reasons and to bail out/buy up their banks.

Grizzly

05-08-2012, 09:21 PM

more cement in those statues than the roads in some towns/cities...

just sayin

Petros Houhoulis

05-08-2012, 09:29 PM

Whether they have the money or not, they are making Skopje look good. So much hate from people who want to see FYROM fail.

Perhaps I have taken a lesson from the fall of the East Roman empire while you haven't. The real objection is about the concentration of all the perks in one small area (not even the entire city) as well as it's mirror in the Albanian sector, Tetovo.

Otherwise it would have been a good idea worthy of comparison to F.D. Roosevelts' New Deal.

It doesn't take much to realize that the most successful state in Europe right now used to have a capital (Bonn) which is barely remembered nowadays (19th largest city in Germany with <325.000 citizens) with a Berlin at 3.45 million as seventh largest urban area in the E.U. and second even within Germany.

Why does the largest European nation has too small a capital and who has bigger ones?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_urban_areas_of_the_European_Union

Which are the top 10 urban areas in the E.U.?

1 Paris France 10,485,000
2 London United Kingdom 8,585,000
3 Ruhr area (Ruhrgebiet) Germany 7,295,000
4 Madrid Spain 5,410,000
5 Milan Italy 4,360,000
6 Barcelona Spain 4,210,000
7 Berlin Germany 3,450,000
8 Athens Greece 3,265,000
9 Lisbon Portugal 3,035,000
10 Naples Italy 3,020,000

6 out of the 10 belong to the troubled south.

3 are capitals of some of the largest European nations (Paris, London, Berlin) and the first two are disproportionally large compared to their states (see below) and belong to countries with not so sound finances lately - Neither France nor Britain are doing very well, as the riots in previous years have proven. Yet the riots are ALSO a byproduct of squalor in Paris and London respectively.

Which E.U. nations have proportionally much more populous capitals/urban areas in comparison to their total population, by considering the results of the above table?

Portugal of 10.5 million people has a Lisbon of 3.035.000 citizens at 28.9% of the total population.

Greece of 11.5 million people has an Athens of 3.265.000 citizens at 28.4% of the total population.

France of 63 million people has a Paris of 10.485.000 citizens, at 16.6% of the total population.

The United Kingdom of 62 million people has a London of 8.585.000, at 13.8% of the total population.

Spain of 46 million people has a Madrid of 5.410.000 citizens, at 11.7% of the total population, and a Barcelona of 4.210.000 citizens, at 9.1% of the total population.

Italy of 60 million people has a Rome of 2.777.000 citizens, at 4.5% of the total population - but has a gigantic Milan of 4.360.000 citizens at 7.3% of the total population and another Naples at 3.020.000 citizens at 5% of the total population.

Generally speaking, the troubled South has much larger capitals/urban areas compared to the more liberal and decentralized North of Europe. This is the result of more concentration of power at either the capital or regional centers at the expense of the hinterland. The ultimate result is more squalor and misery in all forms.

The picture is equally dramatic outside of the European Union:

Russia of 143 million people has a Moscow of 13.610.000 citizens at 9.5% of the total population, but also a Saint Petersburg of 4.555.000 citizens at 3.1% of the total population - the percentages are small but Russia is still huge and is getting urbanized at an astonishing pace.

Turkey of 74 million people has an Istanbul of 13.275.000 citizens at 17.9% of the total population.

Now you can realize why having the 1/4 of your population in a single urban area (when are those sloths going to conduct a damned census?) like Portugal or Greece, you cannot possibly expect any good from it.

If you are also spending all of your money in its' renewal by ignoring the rest of the country (minus Tetovo) you can expect an even more pronounced urban growth which shall inevitably result to more squalor and - much much worse - and even greater loss of the hinterland.

It would require a very long narration to explain to you the reason of the collapse of the East Roman Empire, but I can sum it up for you in a single word: Constantinople...

...Read history folks, otherwise you have no place in this forum or in current affairs anywhere else. I cannot possibly teach you everything.

The Lawspeaker

05-08-2012, 09:33 PM

Which are the top 10 urban areas in the E.U.?

1 Paris France 10,485,000
2 London United Kingdom 8,585,000
3 Ruhr area (Ruhrgebiet) Germany 7,295,000
4 Madrid Spain 5,410,000
5 Milan Italy 4,360,000
6 Barcelona Spain 4,210,000
7 Berlin Germany 3,450,000
8 Athens Greece 3,265,000
9 Lisbon Portugal 3,035,000
10 Naples Italy 3,020,000

Randstad Holland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randstad). 7,100,000 (2008)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Blue_Banana.svg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Population_density_Europe.png

Or to think a lot bigger: the Blue Banana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_banana). 92.4 million inhabitants.

Petros Houhoulis

05-08-2012, 09:45 PM

I would expect from a Greek that he knows the European Union better: they would simply help Macedonia for strategic reasons and to bail out/buy up their banks.

Actually we own their biggest bank and two of the four largest banks already:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Banks_of_the_Republic_of_Macedonia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stopanska_Banka

Stopanska Banka AD (Macedonian Cyrillic: Стопанска Банка АД) is the oldest and currently the largest bank in the Republic of Macedonia by equity and branch network. The bank was established in 1944 as "Stopanska Banka" by a Decision of the Second Special Meeting of the Antifascist Assembly of the National Liberation Movement of Macedonia on 29 December of that year under the name of Makedonska Stopanska Banka.[1]

At the beginning of 2000, Stopanska Banka AD was acquired by the National Bank of Greece which is the leading banking group in South-East Europe.

Stopanska Banka is the largest banking network in the Republic of Macedonia having 56 branches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Bank_Skopje

We could argue that we "own" them, and you can argue that they build Ancient Greek statues and buildings because we "own" them. I'll take a more reasonable approach though - we are two different cultures and although Kiro Grigorov was thinking to propose a confederation between us (before some Australopitheki started shouting) and when Slobodan Milosevic found out that thought proposed to share their state in half between us, we would reject any outright union between us for obvious reasons: How can you communicate with a people who believe that they have a huge oppressed minority in Greece instead of a couple of ragtags who are scheming in order to gain funds from diaspora groups? Not to mention their various hallucinations beginning from them being the worlds' first white people (and progenitors of the white race) to their chief archaeologist travelling in time, to their re-translation of the Rosetta stone, to a myriad minor comic reliefs that emanate from their side - very often at very high level...

These people need an education - much like all of the Balkaners, but they are an extreme case even for the Balkan standards...

Vasconcelos

05-08-2012, 09:51 PM

Well.. I don't want to be taxed in order to save a bankrupt Macedonia etc.

That's the point, these king of endeavours are very familiar to any Portguese..in the end it was a huge money sink for us, and Portugal was growing and being funded by the EU at the time.

I hope Mecedonia won't have the same end, but massive public works, while nice to improve quality of life and create jobs, have a price to pay afterwards..

Petros Houhoulis

05-08-2012, 10:00 PM

Randstad Holland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randstad). 7,100,000 (2008)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Blue_Banana.svg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Population_density_Europe.png

Or to think a lot bigger: the Blue Banana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_banana). 92.4 million inhabitants.

Neither Randstand is a city in Holland, nor Blue Banana is a city in Europe.

Randstand is a conurbation, a naturally occuring cluster of individual cities which grew enormously and begun bonding with each other.

In the case of the Low countries this was also a result of being... The Low Countries. A flatland which is very easy to transform to either huge dairy farms or huge cities. Although it seems to have an enormous population, the density is a mere 1,500/km2

If you start counting DENSITY in the E.U., which ia a more important statistic compared to all else, you get:

Bucharest at 6,800/km2
Palermo at 6,000/km2
Bilbao at 5,800/km2
Sofia at 5,700/km2
Seville at 5,600/km2
Madrid at 5,500/km2
London, Barcelona and Lodz at 5,100/km2
Gdansk at 5,000/km2
Athens at 4,800/km2
Liverpool Urban Area (Excluding Birkenhead Urban Area) at 4,400/km2
Thessaloniki at 4,300/km2

You can see the emerging picture: The squalor is overwhelmingly in the south of the E.U...

Britain is by many economic indicators a South European country... They just have "the City" protecting them... But it won't last forever...

Petros Houhoulis

05-08-2012, 10:15 PM

Well.. I don't want to be taxed in order to save a bankrupt Macedonia etc.

What is expedient is to give people to understand the deeper reasons behind the everyday facts, the inner workings of history. The trouble is that a knowledge of these would do no good to these people, at least in the short term. Either we like it or not, their nation has no sound geopolitical roots. This also needs a very long narration to establish. They avoid reality for the simple reason that reality points to a disastrous future. They are in a deadlock, and they are lacking the assimilating capacity to deal with the Albanians. One of the means to acquire such a capacity, is to construct those enormous buildings, in hope of intimidating all of their opponents, internal and external, real or imaginary.

Unfortunately we live in the era of the internet. Nobody is going to be stunned, not even those watching TV.

What they are trying is to put their mark in the territory which they consider theirs in order not to lose it in the future. This is the deeper meaning of all their actions.

Unfortunately what they achieve is (except for the loathing) the exact opposite: They are shrinking their entire country in a small area around their capitol. All other areas shall look unworthy (and trust me, I know what I'm talking about because I've seen them) and the people shall start flocking (in even greater numbers than before) to abandon the hinterlands and live their dream in the capitol. Once that happens, the crime rate shall go up because of a large number of impoverished people flocking to a small area with no means to sustain themselves (unless if they all manage to get jobs in the IT industry, and they can be competitive against the Indians I believe).

This scenario is played out in Athens as we are talking, with more than a million illegal immigrants as the main perpetrators. The only good news is that Athens is going down and it is going down fast. This shall lead to a revival of the rest of the country in the long term.

Vasconcelos

05-08-2012, 10:16 PM

Now you can realize why having the 1/4 of your population in a single urban area (when are those sloths going to conduct a damned census?) like Portugal or Greece, you cannot possibly expect any good from it.

If you are also spending all of your money in its' renewal by ignoring the rest of the country (minus Tetovo) you can expect an even more pronounced urban growth which shall inevitably result to more squalor and - much much worse - and even greater loss of the hinterland.

This is extremelly important, and I've been objecting this for a long time. I jokingly call Portugal "Lisbon's Colony" because everything is and was concentrated here on the capital for decades if not centuries.

The consequence is that people from all over the country flock to Lisbon because that's where the best chances are, and this is accelerating exponentially due to cheaper and faster transportation systems - it wasn't nearly as bad 100 years ago, when a common man could barely move from their village to a big city because there was no proper road and trips took you a few hundred thousand millenia. The only city that managed to clearly break away from it's domination was Porto..because it pretty much became a copy of Lisbon, but on the North - lots of people from Minho, Douro valley and Trás-os-montes moved there, including 4 of my great-aunts and my grandmother who lived in a small village ~40km away in the Douro valley.

History clearly shows that fragmentation of power (political, economical, cultural, etc) has very positive results in the long run. Smaller regions are easier to manage and improve, general population and politicians have a better idea of what the region/people really needs (instead of a blurred perception from a guy 9999999999km away who's never been there), and each region is able to gain more authonomy from others. This is easily visible in Germany and Northern Italy, for example.

In 1998 there was a referendum to implement a sort of semi-authonomous regions in Portugal. People living in big cities were usually against it, people in rural areas for it. People argued that it made no sense to have Regions in a small country with 10.5M inhabitants, most living in or around Lisboa or Porto, but it's the very fact that there are no regions that is causing this. The "interior" is being deserted, abandoned because of these reckless and irresponsible politics and not only is causing huge asymetries on the country, it's also damaging it's culture and tradition - the real portuguese traditions are in the interior, not Lisbon.

Petros Houhoulis

05-08-2012, 10:28 PM

This is extremelly important, and I've been objecting this for a long time. I jokingly call Portugal "Lisbon's Colony" because everything is and was concentrated here on the capital for decades if not centuries.

The consequence is that people from all over the country flock to Lisbon because that's where the best chances are, and this is accelerating exponentially due to cheaper and faster transportation systems - it wasn't nearly as bad 100 years ago, when a common man could barely move from their village to a big city because there was no proper road and trips took you a few hundred thousand millenia. The only city that managed to clearly break away from it's domination was Porto..because it pretty much became a copy of Lisbon, but on the North - lots of people from Minho, Douro valley and Trás-os-montes moved there, including 4 of my great-aunts and my grandmother who lived in a small village ~40km away in the Douro valley.

History clearly shows that fragmentation of power (political, economical, cultural, etc) has very positive results in the long run. Smaller regions are easier to manage and improve, general population and politicians have a better idea of what the region/people really needs (instead of a blurred perception from a guy 9999999999km away who's never been there), and each region is able to gain more authonomy from others. This is easily visible in Germany and Northern Italy, for example.

In 1998 there was a referendum to implement a sort of semi-authonomous regions in Portugal. People living in big cities were usually against it, people in rural areas for it. People argued that it made no sense to have Regions in a small country with 10.5M inhabitants, most living in or around Lisboa or Porto, but it's the very fact that there are no regions that is causing this. The "interior" is being deserted, abandoned because of these reckless and irresponsible politics and not only is causing huge asymetries on the country, it's also damaging it's culture and tradition - the real portuguese traditions are in the interior, not Lisbon.

I totally agree with you. Just replace the words "Lisboa" and "Porto" with "Athens" and "Thessaloniki" and you get the same exact story.

The same story is evident throughout South Europe chronically, and now it emerges all over Eastern Europe and an even more pronounced and shocking effect. If we are here raging because some feel that Europe is losing its' importance, and others because they feel that it is literally dying out, it is precisely because of this concentration of people and resources in very small areas, and if the U.S.A. boast that they are standing still, it is because they have a lot of void space to fill, especially in the Western half.

morski

05-10-2012, 09:50 AM

Petros, Vasconcelos, I totally agree with what you are saying. Same situation here.:thumb001:

poiuytrewq0987

05-11-2012, 02:13 PM

Well.. I don't want to be taxed in order to save a bankrupt Macedonia etc.

Civis, you are being ridiculous. :confused: Macedonia's debt to GDP ratio in 2012 is only 27% and the projects have been ongoing since 2008 something. The fact we have tightly controlled our debt means the projects are being entirely financed by taxpayers' money with slight help from IMF credit lines (precautionary which means they cannot be drawn unless we have trouble paying debt...). So don't worry about bailing us out because we don't need it. :coffee:

The Lawspeaker

05-12-2012, 10:10 AM

Civis, you are being ridiculous. :confused: Macedonia's debt to GDP ratio in 2012 is only 27% and the projects have been ongoing since 2008 something. The fact we have tightly controlled our debt means the projects are being entirely financed by taxpayers' money with slight help from IMF credit lines (precautionary which means they cannot be drawn unless we have trouble paying debt...). So don't worry about bailing us out because we don't need it. :coffee:
I see that the Macedonians have learned from the Greeks on how to run their accounts. :coffee:

poiuytrewq0987

05-12-2012, 11:48 AM

I see that the Macedonians have learned from the Greeks on how to run their accounts. :coffee:

Why don't you prove that allegation? Find me one source that says the gov't's been manipulating the books. Besides the parliament opposition, you won't find any.

The Lawspeaker

05-12-2012, 11:49 AM

Why don't you prove that allegation? Find me one source that says the gov't's been manipulating the books. Besides the parliament opposition, you won't find any.
10 years from now it will be in every newspaper. If it looks too good to be true then it always is. We were surprised that Greece managed to modernise so quickly. Now we know who paid for it. It's exactly the same in Monkeydonia.

Queen B

05-12-2012, 11:50 AM

The Lawspeaker

05-12-2012, 11:53 AM

Greece didn't modernize 1) neither so quickly 2)nor so much.
We got to see all those beautiful images of the new Greek motorways and the Olympic Games and the new metro and how clean Athens had become during those Olympic Games a couple of years back when there were some reservations about Greece here. A nice little Olympic promotion campaign or sorts.

Queen B

05-12-2012, 12:02 PM

We got to see all those beautiful images of the new Greek motorways and the Olympic Games and the new metro and how clean Athens had become during those Olympic Games a couple of years back when there were some reservations about Greece here. A nice little Olympic promotion campaign or sorts.

That's a proof that those money weren't spend in pockets, but actually have a something worthy, in result.
And Greece (and any country that hosts Olympics) gains money from sponsors, from Olympic comitee, as well as it spends some of their own to form the country correctly to be ready for Olympics. I don't see how this is faulty in any case.

The money that were wrongly spent in Olympics were not those for modernization and roads but those , that part responsible is ... the supposed victim of our economic problems, aka Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Siemens_scandal)

Of course, those that are in the bank accounts of politicians as well.

poiuytrewq0987

05-12-2012, 12:03 PM

10 years from now it will be in every newspaper. If it looks too good to be true then it always is. We were surprised that Greece managed to modernise so quickly. Now we know who paid for it. It's exactly the same in Monkeydonia.

So, all you have are assumptions? Right. The total project costs for the centar renewal is only about $250 million or only 4% of Macedonia's total revenues. We have been covering the shortfalls with some loans. We have managed our debt strictly. The fact we emerged from the European crisis unscathed proves that. Unlike the Netherlands which is still in a recession (http://www.cpb.nl/en/pressrelease/3211184/dutch-economy-recession-prospects-2012-depend-eurozone-crisis) with GDP dipping by 0.5%, 90,000 laid off workers and a budget deficit of 4.1%. :coffee:

The Lawspeaker

05-12-2012, 12:14 PM

So, all you have are assumptions? Right. The total project costs for the centar renewal is only about $250 million or only 4% of Macedonia's total revenues. We have been covering the shortfalls with some loans. We have managed our debt strictly. The fact we emerged from the European crisis unscathed proves that. Unlike the Netherlands which is still in a recession (http://www.cpb.nl/en/pressrelease/3211184/dutch-economy-recession-prospects-2012-depend-eurozone-crisis) with GDP dipping by 0.5%, 90,000 laid off workers and a budget deficit of 4.1%. :coffee:
I know that - that's why we don't have any big projects right now. But other then Monkeydonia we have an economy and a fragile one at that. And what makes the Dutch economy fragile ?

Simple: Germany and international trade. That's because everything comes in through my country and that's why we, other then Monkeydonia, where you don't even live, have infrastructure. We don't feel the need to spend a lot of money on a city centre while hiding the crumbling appartment blocks. We don't have to invent a national identity.

poiuytrewq0987

05-12-2012, 12:18 PM

I know that - that's why we don't have any big projects right now. But other then Monkeydonia we have an economy and a fragile one at that. And what makes the Dutch economy fragile ?

Simple: Germany and international trade. That's because everything comes in through my country and that's why we, other then Monkeydonia, where you don't even life, have infrastructure. We don't feel the need to spend a lot of money on a city centre while hiding the crumbling appartment blocks. We don't have to invent a national identity.

1. Macedonia economy is not the strongest but it's growing quite amicably; Dutch economy is established but it's not growing right now

2. Rome wasn't built in a day

3. No inventing going on here; our Slavic Macedonian identity has always been there. Everything else is icing on the cake. Think of us as South Balkan Slovenes.

Queen B

05-12-2012, 12:18 PM

We don't feel the need to spend a lot of money on a city centre while hiding the crumbling appartment blocks. We don't have to invent a national identity.
:D

The Lawspeaker

05-12-2012, 12:20 PM

1. Macedonia economy is not the strongest but it's growing quite amicably; Dutch economy is established but it's not growing right now
We never see anything Macedonian here so the only thing that are growing are inflated figures. Hello Greece. :)

2. Rome wasn't built in a day
Skopje is not exactly Rome.

3. No inventing going on here; our Slavic Macedonian identity has always been there. Everything else is icing on the cake.
Your neighbours (all of them) disagree with you so they seem to have a point. It's just another pretty phoney confused nation with an identity dating back to the Yugoslav era.

Queen B

05-12-2012, 12:22 PM

Your neighbours (all of them) disagree with you so they seem to have a point. It's just another pretty phoney confused nation with an identity dating back to the Yugoslav era.
And all of their former leaders, too :lol:

poiuytrewq0987

05-12-2012, 12:29 PM

We never see anything Macedonian here so the only thing that are growing are inflated figures. Hello Greece. :)

Blah, blah, blah... we can build things and balance our budget at the same time. What is Netherlands debt by the way? :rolleyes: Go clean your house before telling us to clean our unmessy house. :coffee:

Skopje is not exactly Rome.

It was an idiom. :thumb001: Skopje was a nice city before the 1963 earthquake. Before, it was burned down by an Italian Austrian general and population went from 60,000 to only 10,000. So yes, we have a lot of rebuilding to do. A lot of new buildings are actually mostly based on the old ones that were destroyed by the earthquake with some new additions. :coffee:

Your neighbours (all of them) disagree with you so they seem to have a point. It's just another pretty phoney confused nation with an identity dating back to the Yugoslav era.

Our neighbors are revanchists who obsess over every kilometer. Their mentality is still stuck in the medieval period. :thumb001: And no, our identity don't date back to 1945.

The Lawspeaker

05-12-2012, 12:33 PM

Blah, blah, blah... we can build things and balance our budget at the same time. What is Netherlands debt by the way? :rolleyes: Go clean your house before telling us to clean our unmessy house. :coffee:
The Netherlands debt is 66% of GDP. Nothing compared to the Germans, the Belgians, the British, the Yugoslav countries, Greeks.

It was an idiom. :thumb001: Skopje was a nice city before the 1963 earthquake. Before, it was burned down by an Italian Austrian general and population went from 60,000 to only 10,000. So yes, we have a lot of rebuilding to do. A lot of new buildings are actually mostly based on the old ones that were destroyed by the earthquake with some new additions. :coffee:

There was no independent Macedonia before it became independent so those " old" buildings were based on foreign architecture.

Our neighbors are revanchists who obsess over every kilometer. Their mentality is still stuck in the medieval period. :thumb001: And no, our identity don't date back to 1945.
Well it does.

poiuytrewq0987

05-12-2012, 12:38 PM

The Netherlands debt is 66% of GDP. Nothing compared to the Germans, the Belgians, the British, the Yugoslav countries, Greeks.

66% of $840 billion... going to take a bit to pay all of that down. :lol:

There was no independent Macedonia before it became independent so those " old" buildings were based on foreign architecture.

What does it matter if we didn't have a country in the medieval period? Our national consciousness emerged in the 19th century and it has existed since then. We exist, simple as that.

Well it does.

If you are oh so interested in us then read some books about us than pull "facts" out of your ass planted by the Bulgarians and Greeks.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Macedonians-Their-Past-Present/dp/0230339859/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336825912&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Macedonia-Macedonians-History-HOOVER-PUBLICATION/dp/0817948821/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1336826154&sr=1-7

Enjoy.

The Lawspeaker

05-12-2012, 12:41 PM

66% of $840 billion... going to take a bit to pay all of that down. :lol:
Yap. We had to bail out the banks, help America in Afghanistan, give lots of money to Europe and bail out Greece. But nothing that we can't get sorted when we don't have all those expenses anymore.

What does it matter if we didn't have a country in the medieval period? Our national consciousness emerged in the 19th century and it has existed since then. We exist, simple as that.
As a fake country.

If you are oh so interested in us then read some books about us than pull "facts" out of your ass planted by the Bulgarians and Greeks.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Macedonians-Their-Past-Present/dp/0230339859/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336825912&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Macedonia-Macedonians-History-HOOVER-PUBLICATION/dp/0817948821/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1336826154&sr=1-7

Enjoy.
When it comes to that I prefer to trust the Bulgarians and Greeks that have indeed been around for a bit longer then that.

poiuytrewq0987

05-12-2012, 12:49 PM

Yap. We had to bail out the banks, help America in Afghanistan, give lots of money to Europe and bail out Greece. But nothing that we can't get sorted when we don't have all those expenses anymore.

Pity.

As a fake country.

Our nation-state is not fake. You are just insulting me for the sake of insulting. Our people has had an organic ethnocultural development since the 19th century. That is a fact. If we didn't get our own nation-state earlier on... I suppose we can chalk that up to the things we blame the Ottomans on Balkan faults?

When it comes to that I prefer to trust the Bulgarians and Greeks that have indeed been around for a bit longer then that.

You trust Greeks? Good, then you should read the first book because it was written by a Greek who has much more knowledge on the matter than you or other Balkan trolls here. And for an immediate solution, we can look to a map drawn by an Athens university professor who confirmed our existence way before 1945... or are you going to make up reasons why the professor wrote Macedonian Slavs?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/d/d6/20100405175455!Hellenism_in_the_Near_East_1918.jpg

Onur

05-12-2012, 01:23 PM

As a fake country.
You should take it easy Tuan B.
Don't be so harsh on them.

You should remember that when your people were trying to build a national conscience, we Turks recognized your state in 17th century and allowed you to use Dutch flags instead of French or German one while trying to do commerce in mediterranean sea. French and Hapsburgs was telling us that Dutch nation doesn't exists and their flag is fake and we shouldn't let them trade under that banner but we didn't listen to them at all and respected your choice.

Grizzly

05-12-2012, 01:49 PM

You should take it easy Tuan B.
Don't be so harsh on them.

You should remember that when your people were trying to build a national conscience, we Turks recognized your state in 17th century and allowed you to use Dutch flags instead of French or German one while trying to do commerce in mediterranean sea. French and Hapsburgs was telling us that Dutch nation doesn't exists and their flag is fake and we shouldn't let them trade under that banner but we didn't listen to them at all and respected your choice.

lol, What does this have anything to do with Turkey?

You should remember that you were in the Mongolian steppes not to long ago

Petros Houhoulis

05-12-2012, 09:52 PM

I see that the Macedonians have learned from the Greeks on how to run their accounts. :coffee:

Seriously, they are not so bad yet. They are simply heading that way... But they have a long way to go.

Nevertheless, the point is they are following Greece according to me, Portugal according to Vasconcelos and Bulgaria according to Morski... Which is far from being a good idea.

Petros Houhoulis

05-12-2012, 09:53 PM

Petros Houhoulis

05-12-2012, 10:07 PM

1. Macedonia economy is not the strongest but it's growing quite amicably; Dutch economy is established but it's not growing right now

2. Rome wasn't built in a day

3. No inventing going on here; our Slavic Macedonian identity has always been there. Everything else is icing on the cake. Think of us as South Balkan Slovenes.

The problem is that you are trying to build Rome dear, which was bad enough, without to even own a Roman empire, which is totally ridiculous...

The very idea of building those buildings was to foment an identity, and it is a stupid idea because first you build the Roman empire and then Rome as it became, not the other way around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWQ1Wf95rkc

Uskub Mayor Koce Trajanovski at 00:25

We have studied "our" history from textbooks, but we never had nothing to show or see.

***Reality check*** You have studied the Ancient Macedonian history which is totally unrelated to you, and you tried to build "Ancient" monuments in order to "prove" that you have some relation. We are STILL LAUGHING!!!

Petros Houhoulis

05-12-2012, 10:18 PM

...Our neighbors are revanchists who obsess over every kilometer. Their mentality is still stuck in the medieval period. :thumb001: And no, our identity don't date back to 1945.

1) We are supposedly stuck in the medieval priod, yet none of us builds medieval buildings. Hell, not even the Albanians do so! Only Skandembergs' statue, which is NOT a building neither a really sizeable statue.

2) The Albanians are the only ones who are openly threatening you and obsess "over every kilometer", and you also obsess over every kilometer as the demarcation of your "border" with Kossovo proved:

(From the world know filthsite)

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1677

Demarcation between Kosovo and Macedonia may end up at ICJ

Aug 3 (Klan Kosova) - Macedonia may ask for international arbitrage on the issue of border demarcation between Kosovo and Macedonia if disagreements over the matter are not overcome within a short time, sources within Macedonian working groups on demarcation told KLAN Kosova. Same sources said that idea for international arbitrage was mentioned several times in the meetings of respective working groups from Kosovo and Macedonia, but it was never discussed officially.
However, Kosovo officials are not informed about Macedonia’s intentions. Murat Meha, deputy chair of Kosovo’s working group on demarcation, said that Kosovo’s working group is not informed about the idea, and noted that the technical work on demarcation is ongoing.
Reportedly, Kosovar families, whose land properties are left to Macedonian side agree with the idea on international arbitrage. They are convinced that their properties should belong to Kosovo.
It is supposed the disagreements over border demarcation in the village of Debellde is one of the reasons for the delays in establishment of diplomatic relations between Kosovo and Macedonia. KLAN Kosova sources said that if disagreements are not overcome by the end of the year, there are big chances to ask for assistance on the matter from the International Court of Justice (ICJ).

Actually they agreed, but not without a lot of huggling.

Onur

05-12-2012, 11:07 PM

1) We are supposedly stuck in the medieval priod, yet none of us builds medieval buildings. Hell, not even the Albanians do so! Only Skandembergs' statue, which is NOT a building neither a really sizeable statue.
This is exactly the case with all Balkan states including Greece because these states either have no medieval history or they just ignore/deny the whole medieval era due to Ottoman empire. Only some Bulgarians tries to connect themselves with medieval era but most of them stays away from it due to Turkic connection. On the other hand, all of you keep inventing new shallow connections with the antiquity.

This is not a healthy mindset at all.

Grizzly

05-12-2012, 11:32 PM

poiuytrewq0987

05-13-2012, 12:07 AM

The problem is that you are trying to build Rome dear, which was bad enough, without to even own a Roman empire, which is totally ridiculous...

The very idea of building those buildings was to foment an identity, and it is a stupid idea because first you build the Roman empire and then Rome as it became, not the other way around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWQ1Wf95rkc

Uskub Mayor Koce Trajanovski at 00:25

We have studied "our" history from textbooks, but we never had nothing to show or see.

***Reality check*** You have studied the Ancient Macedonian history which is totally unrelated to you, and you tried to build "Ancient" monuments in order to "prove" that you have some relation. We are STILL LAUGHING!!!

Please stop putting words in my mouth. Thanks.

Petros Houhoulis

05-13-2012, 07:13 PM

1. Macedonia economy is not the strongest but it's growing quite amicably; Dutch economy is established but it's not growing right now

2. Rome wasn't built in a day

3. No inventing going on here; our Slavic Macedonian identity has always been there. Everything else is icing on the cake. Think of us as South Balkan Slovenes.

1.) You still don't have an economy.
2.) The very idea of building Rome is bad, the concept of building Rome without a Roman empire to back it up is utterly ridiculous.
3.)Your identity is a 19th/20th century development. There is a reason for not having deep roots. Actually, there are reasons that make an Ethnos survive or fail, and they are related to geopolitics.

Do you want me to grant you a geopolitical assessment of why your state, and subsequently your ethnos, shall collapse? I can do so.

poiuytrewq0987

05-13-2012, 07:20 PM

1.) You still don't have an economy.

We do have an economy but it is small. ;)

2.) The very idea of building Rome is bad, the concept of building Rome without a Roman empire to back it up is utterly ridiculous.

Why do posters here keep misunderstanding "Rome wasn't built in a day"? :D

something that you say which means that it takes a long time to do an important job 'Sometimes it feels like we've spent all our lives decorating this house.' 'Well, Rome wasn't built in a day.'
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Rome+wasn't+built+in+a+day

What I think they're doing right now is fine. Building new buildings that needed to be there. Some new buildings are also reconstructions of old buildings like the national theater or the national bank that were destroyed in the 1963 earthquake. I just hope the new buildings have been earthquake-proofed...

3.)Your identity is a 19th/20th century development. There is a reason for not having deep roots. Actually, there are reasons that make an Ethnos survive or fail, and they are related to geopolitics.

Do you want me to grant you a geopolitical assessment of why your state, and subsequently your ethnos, shall collapse? I can do so.

Everything is still up in the air. The powers that be clearly want to keep Macedonia in the game and they affirmed this with their intervention in the 2001 conflict and created the Ohrid Framework to shut up Albanians. If Macedonia collapses one day then oh well. Not anything I can do about it.

Petros Houhoulis

05-13-2012, 07:33 PM

This is exactly the case with all Balkan states including Greece because these states either have no medieval history or they just ignore/deny the whole medieval era due to Ottoman empire. Only some Bulgarians tries to connect themselves with medieval era but most of them stays away from it due to Turkic connection. On the other hand, all of you keep inventing new shallow connections with the antiquity.

This is not a healthy mindset at all.

Better an unhealthy mindset than a bloody mindset.

The official language of the East Roman empire since the Emperor Leo III the Isaurian was Greek.

http://phoenicia.org/leo.html

Leo III, Byzantine Emperor (717 to 741)

...

Other Achievements

Having thus preserved the Empire from extinction, Leo proceeded to consolidate its administration, which in the previous years of anarchy had become completely disorganized. In 718 he suppressed a rebellion in Sicily and in 719 did the same on behalf of the deposed Emperor Anastasius II. Leo secured the Empire's frontiers by inviting Slavic settlers into the depopulated districts and by restoring the army to efficiency. His military efforts were supplemented by his alliances with the Khazars and the Georgians.

A number of new institutional codifications marked his reign. By far the most important of these is his Eklogá, where there is no mention of icons, the law code promulgated by him in March 726 which constituted an important revision of the Justinian code. Issued in 726, this is a digest of essentials from Justinian I's old Corpus juris civilis, the cornerstone of which was set by scholars of Berytus (Beirut) School of Law, such as Papinian, Ulpian, and Dorotheus, but now in Greek, the empire's functional language. This code demonstrated the continuing evolution of Roman law in the East, amalgamated with new Christian and Oriental elements. Leo's work is therefore a bridge between the legal landmarks of Justinian's age and the mature Byzantine codifications of the late 9th century.

In his Eklogá, Leo undertook a set of civil reforms including the abolition of the system of prepaying taxes which had weighed heavily upon the wealthier proprietors, the elevation of the serfs into a class of free tenants and the remodeling of family and of maritime law. He also created at least two new maritime themes for the security of the empire, namely the Thrakesion and the Kibyrrhaiotai in Asia Minor.

Therefore, there was a Greek tradition under a Roman cloak. In reality the Latin language did never manage to supplant the Greek language in the East of a united Roman Empire at first, much less in an East Roman empire later...

Thus, there was a Greek language and tradition, but not a Greek ethnicity back then. Nevertheless, the Turkish ethnicity was an even later invention than the Greek ethnicity (but still founded in solid foundations)

More or less the first true adherents of a Turkish ethnos were the Committee of Union and Progress:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_of_Union_and_Progress

...And the Young Turks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Turks

Before that, the Ottomans were still considering themselves Muslims first, and Turks in a vague notion...

It was changed during the late 19th/Early 20th century, exactly a century after the creation of a (sizeable) modern Greek ethnicity after several centuries of inactivity.

Petros Houhoulis

05-13-2012, 07:36 PM

Pity.

Our nation-state is not fake. You are just insulting me for the sake of insulting. Our people has had an organic ethnocultural development since the 19th century. That is a fact. If we didn't get our own nation-state earlier on... I suppose we can chalk that up to the things we blame the Ottomans on Balkan faults?

You trust Greeks? Good, then you should read the first book because it was written by a Greek who has much more knowledge on the matter than you or other Balkan trolls here. And for an immediate solution, we can look to a map drawn by an Athens university professor who confirmed our existence way before 1945... or are you going to make up reasons why the professor wrote Macedonian Slavs?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/d/d6/20100405175455!Hellenism_in_the_Near_East_1918.jpg

We had agreed upon the "Macedonian Slavs" name. "Macedonians", is quite a different term...

In any case, "Macedonian Slavs" could also mean Serbs and/or Bulgarians in Macedonia...

Petros Houhoulis

05-13-2012, 07:39 PM

Please stop putting words in my mouth. Thanks.

Are you the mayor of Skopje, Koce Trajanovski?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWQ1Wf95rkc

Uskub Mayor Koce Trajanovski at 00:25

"We have studied "our" history from textbooks, but we never had nothing to show or see."

There were real words Dušan from real politicians. What you say does not matter too much. You do not form policy anywhere...

poiuytrewq0987

05-13-2012, 07:39 PM

We had agreed upon the "Macedonian Slavs" name. "Macedonians", is quite a different term...

Yes, Macedonians Slavs and ancient Macedonians are not same. As we have different cultures and speak a different language today.

In any case, "Macedonian Slavs" could also mean Serbs and/or Bulgarians in Macedonia...

Until you got evidence to back up your claim, no.

purple

05-13-2012, 07:41 PM

''Sad'' to see..

I wonder why is this happening:rolleyes:

Petros Houhoulis

05-13-2012, 07:50 PM

Yes, Macedonians Slavs and ancient Macedonians are not same. As we have different cultures and speak a different language today.

Until you got evidence to back up your claim, no.

Evidence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic-speakers_of_Greek_Macedonia#Ethnic_and_linguistic_ affiliations

Members of this group have had a number of conflicting ethnic identifications.
Predominantly identified as Macedonian Bulgarians until the early 1940s,[19][20] since the formation of a Macedonian nation state, many of the migrant population in the diaspora (Australia, America and Canada) have a strong Macedonian identity and have followed the consolidation of the Macedonian ethnicity.[21]

However, those who remain in Greece, now mainly identify nationally as ethnic Greeks,[22][23] although, it should be noted, that though the Macedonian region is overwhelmingly inhabited by Greeks including descendants of Pontians, it is ethnically diverse (including Albanians, Aromanians and Slavs).

The second group in today's Greece is made up of those who seem to reject any national identity, but have distinct regional ethnic identity, which they may call “indigenous” - dopia -, Slavomacedonian, or Macedonian,[24] and the smallest group is made up of those who have a clear ethnic Macedonian national identity.[25] They speak East South Slavic dialects that can be linguistically classified as either Macedonian or Bulgarian,[26] but which are locally often referred to simply as "Slavic" or "'the local language". Today all speakers are also bilingual in Greek.

A crucial element of that controversy is the very name Macedonian, as it is also used by a much more numerous group of people with a Greek national identity to indicate their regional identity. The term "Aegean Macedonians" (Macedonian: Егејски Македонци, Egejski Makedonci) is associated with those parts of the population that have an ethnic Macedonian identity. Speakers who identify as Greeks or have distinct regional ethnic identity, often speak of themselves simply as "locals" (Greek: Dopii), to distinguish themselves from native Greek speakers from the rest of Greece and Greek refugees from Asia Minor who entered the area in the 1920s and after.

Slavic speakers will also use the term "Macedonians" or "Slavomacedonians", though in a regional rather than an ethnic sense. People of Greek persuasion are sometimes called by the pejorative term "Grecomans" by the other side. Greek sources, which usually avoid the identification of the group with the nation of the Republic of Macedonia, and also reject the use of the name "Macedonian" for the latter, will most often refer only to so called "Slavophones" or "Slavophone Greeks".

"Slavic-speakers" or "Slavophones" is also used as a cover term for people across the different ethnic orientations. The exact number of the linguistic minority remaining in Greece today, together with its members' choice of ethnic identification, is difficult to ascertain; most maximum estimates range around 180,000-200,000 with those of an ethnic Macedonian national consciousness numbering possibly 10,000 to 30,000.[27] However, as per leading experts on this issue, the number of this people has decreased in the last decades, because of the intermeriages and the urbanization and they number nowadays between 50,000 and 70,000 people with around 10,000 of them identifying as Macedonians.[28][29][30][31][32]

Got it?

Crn Volk

05-15-2012, 01:01 AM

No, I don't got it...

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,MRGI,,GRC,,49749d1841,0.html

poiuytrewq0987

05-19-2012, 01:50 AM

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7077/7188859840_f517cd5869_o.jpg

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4914/20120420old02.jpg

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Images/Photo%20Features/Skopje%202014%20Updated/33%20The%20financial%20police%20with%20a%20bridge% 20leading%20to%20it%20and%20the%20new%20foreign%20 ministry.JPG

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Images/Photo%20Features/Skopje%202014%20Updated/30%20The%20new%20fence%20on%20the%20modernist%20Go ce%20Delcev%20Bridge%20was%20designed%20to%20match %20the%20revamp.JPG

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Images/Photo%20Features/Skopje%202014%20Updated/29%20One%20of%20the%20four%20bronze%20lions%20guar ding%20Goce%20Delcev%20Bridge.JPG

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Images/Photo%20Features/Skopje%202014%20Updated/27%20The%20Museum%20of%20Macedonian%20Strugle%20is %20open%20for%20tourists.JPG

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Images/Photo%20Features/Skopje%202014%20Updated/26%20Part%20of%20the%20Holocaust%20Museum%20near%2 0the%20new%20theatre%20is%20still%20under%20constr uction.JPG

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Images/Photo%20Features/Skopje%202014%20Updated/25%20The%20National%20Theatre%20is%20due%20to%20op en%20at%20the%20end%20of%202012.JPG

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Images/Photo%20Features/Skopje%202014%20Updated/20%20A%20fountain%20and%20a%20pedestal%20for%20the %20statue%20of%20Philip%20of%20Macedon%20on%20Karp osh%20square.JPG

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Images/Photo%20Features/Skopje%202014%20Updated/17%20The%20office%20building%20at%20the%20main%20s quare%20is%20one%20of%20the%20few%20that%20do%20no t%20draw%20inspiration%20from%20the%20classical%20 styles.JPG

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Images/Photo%20Features/Skopje%202014%20Updated/15%20Ottoman%20era%20revolutionary%20Nikola%20Kare v%20in%20front%20of%20the%20parliament%20building% 20that%20is%20also%20geting%20a%20facelift.JPG

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/file/show/Images/Photo%20Features/Skopje%202014%20Updated/22%20Graffiti%20on%20the%20landmark%20Stone%20Brid ge%20saying%20Think%20Critically.JPG.jpg

Petros Houhoulis

05-19-2012, 09:39 PM

I still prefer watching the boobs of your previous picture, and the countless boobs in the Greek beaches in the forthcoming summer.

Quite a pity I won't be here...

Petros Houhoulis

05-19-2012, 09:40 PM

No, I don't got it...

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,MRGI,,GRC,,49749d1841,0.html

Keep waiting. The U.N. does not use official terms for ethnicities, and cannot agree upon what a minority is! Only state names are recognized!!!

poiuytrewq0987

06-28-2012, 03:41 AM

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/35586/mnr11.jpg

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/3136/7188662643ebb040761do.jpg

http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/522/panoramaskopje20120614s.jpg

poiuytrewq0987

06-29-2012, 04:54 AM

New Gynecology hospital

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8093/ginekoloska20klinika20s.jpg

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/8093/ginekoloska20klinika20s.jpg

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/8093/ginekoloska20klinika20s.jpg

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8093/ginekoloska20klinika20s.jpg

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/8093/ginekoloska20klinika20s.jpg

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8093/ginekoloska20klinika20s.jpg

poiuytrewq0987

06-29-2012, 04:55 AM

Different angles of the new national bank... looks really well done I think.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/830/nb2sk.jpg

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3654/nb1gv.jpg

http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/5589/20120427skopjebank.jpg

poiuytrewq0987

06-29-2012, 05:02 AM

A new square; looks very nice! I was there 2 years ago, only saw a pedestal before but it's looking great now.

http://i.imgur.com/7vYcc.jpg

http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa364/tomi_z/BuildMk/IMG20111203_002.jpg

poiuytrewq0987

06-29-2012, 05:07 AM

New court building:

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/1/Proekti/Administrativni/Krivicen%20sud%20Sk/Krivicen%20sud%200401.jpg

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg72/lslcrew/javnacistota/krsud5.jpg

Aramis

07-02-2012, 09:54 PM

poiuytrewq0987

07-02-2012, 10:17 PM

Who's the guy on his horse?

I'm not sure but last I heard from my cousin is it's supposed to be a statue of Filip II.

Bugarash

07-15-2012, 12:11 PM

This forum just needs a thread about Skopje 2014

so lets start

The new building of the archaeological museum,state archive and constitutional court

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9710/dsc02358n.jpg

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4303/dsc02356a.jpg

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/8021/dsc02341v.jpg

http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/3719/dsc02343c.jpg

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8500/dsc02350fx.jpg

Vojnik

07-15-2012, 12:33 PM

I think their is a Skopje 2014 thread already.

Vojnik

07-15-2012, 12:36 PM

Those are awesome looking buildings.

Bugarash

07-15-2012, 12:37 PM

Those are awesome looking buildings.

Sarcastic?

Arcaius

07-15-2012, 12:38 PM

Sarcastic?

lol what's up with your bitch ass all the time :D

why you can't stop bitching?

Bugarash

07-15-2012, 12:40 PM

lol what's up with your bitch ass all the time :D

why you can't stop bitching?

Im not bitching
Im showing a empire in the making here
have you ever played ''Civilization-gods and kings''?

Albion

07-15-2012, 12:54 PM

Those are awesome looking buildings.

I agree, I hate all this modern crap that gets built over here now - it'll be ugly in 20 years and bulldozed in 30. :(

Vojnik

07-15-2012, 01:23 PM

Sarcastic?

No. Really think they are great.

iNird

07-15-2012, 03:08 PM

No. Really think they are great.

I bet the communists (and the people at the time) thought their buildings were great. Today you have people destroying them..........

Same shit will happen in the future. Once these "Macedonians" wake up from their hysteria they will be destroying these ugly things. Hell I bet your relatives will be the first one to destroy the Alexander the Great (or is it Warrior on the horse) statue while waving their Bulgarian flags.

:D

Albion

07-15-2012, 03:20 PM

I bet the communists (and the people at the time) thought their buildings were great. Today you have people destroying them..........

But those buildings are modelled on classical designs which people have always thought looked great throughout history.
I think sticking to tried and tested designs is the best option, that way it is less likely that buildings will be deemed ugly latter on.

Bugarash

07-15-2012, 03:26 PM

No. Really think they are great.

lol

a friend of mine in Canada told me that a macedonian friend of his told him that Skopje was becoming like Vienna.

ah be makedone:D
pa ke prasas zosto makedonce sekogas bilo ebeno vo istorijata,pa ke bide ebeno,kako da ne bide:coffee:

poiuytrewq0987

07-15-2012, 09:14 PM

I think their is a Skopje 2014 thread already.

Yes.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39808

Queen B

07-15-2012, 09:21 PM

The museum looks nice in its Greek architecture :cool:

Linet

07-15-2012, 09:23 PM

I also think is amazing...it has aroma of Greece :rose:

tEhSaint

07-15-2012, 09:27 PM

It looks big. What are they gonna put inside it really? Greek replicas ?

Linet

07-15-2012, 09:36 PM

Dont give them ideas.... :nono:
....but i suppose most probably you are right :sad: ...their scultors must be working like crazy :dance nerd to make nice greek copies of statues and jewels :fpoem:

Queen B

07-15-2012, 09:39 PM

*2 threads got merged*

iNird

07-15-2012, 09:42 PM

Yes more spending. They are copying Greeks in all ways possible.

dralos

07-15-2012, 09:53 PM

Yes more spending. They are copying Greeks in all ways possible.
bro you mean anicent greeks not today hellenized whatever:D

iNird

07-15-2012, 09:54 PM

bro you mean anicent greeks not today hellenized whatever:D

:D

Shitstorm in 3.....2.........1...............

Queen B

07-15-2012, 09:57 PM

:D
Shitstorm in 3.....2.........1...............
Nah, no one here pays attention to dralos. :rotfl:

Fact is that the architecture of museum is Greek, that's why it looks nice ;)

poiuytrewq0987

07-15-2012, 10:14 PM

Nah, no one here pays attention to dralos. :rotfl:

Fact is that the architecture of museum is Greek, that's why it looks nice ;)

Not Greek architecture, it is Macedonian.

Queen B

07-15-2012, 10:22 PM

Not Greek architecture, it is Macedonian.
:rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doric_order
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionic_order

poiuytrewq0987

07-15-2012, 10:24 PM

:rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doric_order
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionic_order

Doesn't matter if architecture looks similar, it was still designed by Macedonian architects and therefore Macedonian. Now sod off and mind about your crappy blackhole country.

Linet

07-15-2012, 10:26 PM

Doesn't matter if architecture looks similar, it was still designed by Macedonian architects and therefore Macedonian. Now sod off and mind about your crappy blackhole country.

designed :blink:? When copying becomes an art.....:wink ....
...Fyrom....the capital of copying....copy and advance...steal and exist.... best in the world....the leading force of instability and confused existance.. :dance:

Grizzly

07-15-2012, 10:26 PM

I also think is amazing...it has aroma of Greece :rose:

Skopje isn't a congested urban sprawl like Athens..

poiuytrewq0987

07-15-2012, 10:28 PM

Skopje isn't a congested urban sprawl like Athens..

Yes, even worse than Cairo in fact! Only decent city they have is Solun and it was entirely built by Macedonians but now occupied by Greeks. :rolleyes:

Linet

07-15-2012, 10:28 PM

Skopje isn't a congested urban sprawl like Athens..

Of course is nothing like Athens....its too new....too recent... it lacks a parthenon :rose: or anything of history....

poiuytrewq0987

07-15-2012, 10:29 PM

Of course is nothing like Athens....its too new....too recent... it lacks a parthenon :rose: or anything of history....

:rotfl: You have to be the biggest nea-Ellin troll on here. :D

Linet

07-15-2012, 10:29 PM

Yes, even worse than Cairo in fact! Only decent city they have is Solun and it was entirely built by Macedonians but now occupied by Greeks. :rolleyes:

So we built something and then we occupie it :blink: ...how can one even do this :eusa_eh:?

poiuytrewq0987

07-15-2012, 10:30 PM

So we built something and then we occupied it :blink: ...how can one even do this :eusa_eh:?

Yep, troll! Macedonians =/ Greek, get over it!

Linet

07-15-2012, 10:31 PM

Yep, troll! Macedonians =/ Greek, get over it!

Get over history? :eyes ....no sorry...impossible....its easier for you to learn some and get over the fact that you are not Greek or anythign close to us...:coffee:

poiuytrewq0987

07-15-2012, 10:32 PM

Get over history? :eyes ....no sorry...impossible....its easier for you to learn some and get over the fact that you are not Greek or anythign close to us...:coffee:

Says the Macedonian wannabe, stop trying to steal our history and claim it as Greek. :rolleyes: You really need to find a new hobby!

Grizzly

07-15-2012, 10:32 PM

Of course is nothing like Athens....its too new....too recent... it lacks a parthenon :rose: or anything of history....

http://www.athens-greece.us/pictures-athens/piraeus-harbor-from-philopappus.jpg

History or not that's still an urban sprawl and an ugly city...

Queen B

07-15-2012, 10:34 PM

Skopje isn't a congested urban sprawl like Athens..
Athens is not sprawl, but its congested.
After all, it has almost 5 million people, which is more than the total population of Fyrom.
Also, Athens is an ancient city :thumbs up

Doesn't matter if architecture looks similar, it was still designed by Macedonian architects and therefore Macedonian. Now sod off and mind about your crappy blackhole country.

You look pretty butthurt to talk that way. Suddenly, you exploded. :coffee::coffee:

Well, that happens when you can't deny something so obvious.

Nice architecture by the way :) :thumb001::thumb001::thumb001:

Yes, even worse than Cairo in fact! Only decent city they have is Solun and it was entirely built by Macedonians but now occupied by Greeks. :rolleyes:
Thessaloniki, another beautiful Greek city, though its also heavily populated, not like Athens though.

poiuytrewq0987

07-15-2012, 10:37 PM

Athens is not sprawl, but its congested.
After all, it has almost 5 million people,
Also, Athens is an ancient city :thumbs up

:rotfl: Athens was an Albanian city before your Philhellenic German king forced the Hellenization of them!

which is more than the total population of Fyrom.

Stupid argument. :rotfl: The whole of Turkish city of Istanbul has more people living it in than all of Greece!

You look pretty butthurt to talk that way. Suddenly, you exploded. :coffee::coffee:

:mmmm: Exploded? Hardly! I'm laughing at you pathetic Greeks. :D

Well, that happens when you can't deny something so obvious.

Nice architecture by the way :) :thumb001::thumb001::thumb001:

Yes, fine Macedonian architecture, indeed.

poiuytrewq0987

07-15-2012, 10:38 PM

http://www.athens-greece.us/pictures-athens/piraeus-harbor-from-philopappus.jpg

History or not that's still an urban sprawl and an ugly city...

Athens, the a$$hole of Europe.

Queen B

07-15-2012, 10:38 PM

Says the Macedonian wannabe, stop trying to steal our history and claim it as Greek. :rolleyes: You really need to find a new hobby!
Stop making fun of yourself.
Steal -> Putting Greek/Bulgarian/Albanian heroes as your own.
Steal -> Copying Greek architecture for your city renewal
Steal -> Putting Greek symbols in your flag.

Sorry Douchesan, but artifacts and history can't be changed.

Bugarash

07-16-2012, 11:22 AM

All of this kitch will remain to the albanians.

maybe they will turn the arch into a tea shop,who knows...

Vojnik

07-16-2012, 02:08 PM

Of course is nothing like Athens....its too new....too recent... it lacks a parthenon :rose: or anything of history....

Skopje has been inhabited since 4000 BC, it is far from new. Skopje has many historical sites, such as the Kale fortress from the 6th century: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skopje_Fortress
The stone bridge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Bridge_(Skopje)
And the archaeological site of Scupi from the 2nd century BC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scupi

But why am I trying to prove anything to a narrow minded, Nazist Greek troll?

Bugarash

07-18-2012, 09:50 AM

This Skopje 2014 project just shows all the complexes this frustrated self called nation has.

poiuytrewq0987

08-18-2012, 02:08 AM

I think the second pedestal is supposed to be where a 20 metres statue of Motehr Teresa will be placed...

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/1/Proekti/Plostadi%20Pesacki%20zoni%20Kejovi/Plostad%20Karposovo%20vostanie/Karposovo%20vostanie%200601.jpg

http://www.build.mk/docs/users/1/Proekti/Plostadi%20Pesacki%20zoni%20Kejovi/Plostad%20Karposovo%20vostanie/Karposovo%20vostanie%200613.jpg

The new court building looks nice though

http://www.build.mk/docs/blog/Skopje%202014/katna%20garaza%20Sudska%20palata.jpg

But this one is funny:

Општина Центар ги избра понудите на италијанската леарница „Гвастини“ за лиење во бронза на спомен – обележјата на Христо Татарчев, Павел Шатев, Кузман Јосифовски – Питу, Јосиф Багери и Неџат Аголи. За сума од 18.877.758 денари или околу 300 илјади евра финално ќе се изработат спомениците на овие личности. Засега е непознато кој ќе го лее паметникот на Пјетр Богдани, за кој исто така беше распишан оглас од страна на локалната самоуправа. Цената за изработката на овие пет обележја е значително помала во споредба со претходните споменици со слични димензии изработени од бронза, за кои беа издвојувани и над десет пати поголеми суми .

Разисква се надълго върху целта на тая организация и по-сетне се спряхме върху автономията на Македония с предимство на българския елемент. Не можехме да възприемем гледището "прямо присъединение на Македония с България", защото виждахме, че туй ще срещне големи мъчнотии поради противодействието на Великите сили и аспирациите на съседните малки държави и Турция. Минаваше ни през ума, че една автономна Македония сетне би магла по-лесно да се присъедини към България, а в краен случай, ако това не се постигне, ще може да послужи за обединително звено на една федерация на балканските народи... Като се установихме върху целта на нашата организация,в същото време се заловихме да изработим и устасва на организацията. Имахме на ръка един том "Записките" на Захари Стоянов и от тях взехме за образец устава на Българския революционен комитет. Натоварихме Попарсов въз основа на тоя устав да изработи проект на нашия устав...

kvarc

08-19-2012, 02:01 AM

Skopje 2014 :picard1: + :picard2:

poiuytrewq0987

08-19-2012, 02:17 AM

Skopje 2014 :picard1: + :picard2:

I agree... the center is starting to look like shit with all the crazy 20 metres high statues. Looking more like Disney World now. :lol:

Arbërori

08-19-2012, 02:18 AM

The new court building does look nice indeed... But the rest?:picard1:

kvarc

08-19-2012, 02:35 AM

I agree... the center is starting to look like shit with all the crazy 20 metres high statues. Looking more like Disney World now. :lol:

the style remains me of this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules_(1997_film) :D

poiuytrewq0987

08-23-2012, 10:13 PM

New pedestrian bridge lined with statues

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/1060/77468145.jpg

poiuytrewq0987

08-23-2012, 10:14 PM

Will we make into Guiness world records book for having most statues per capita?

poiuytrewq0987

08-23-2012, 10:20 PM

I count 38 statues in the pedestrian bridge picture.

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/damn/grand/damn-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-1299.gif

Sultan Suleiman

08-23-2012, 10:21 PM

The brass just makes it look meh, but I love the domes and the Romanesq style of buildings.
I just wished that you used the mix of Neo-Byzantine/Ottoman+Slavic architecture.

poiuytrewq0987

08-23-2012, 10:23 PM

The brass just makes it look meh, but I love the domes and the Romanesq style of buildings.
I just wished that you used the mix of Neo-Byzantine/Ottoman+Slavic architecture.

I certainly like how we combine new classical architecture with modern architecture. You can see modern windows on the new classical buildings and that is very nice I think. But yes, we should have incorporated more styles... though I don't think our architects are that experienced to combine more complex architecture...

Sultan Suleiman

08-23-2012, 10:26 PM

New pedestrian bridge lined with statues

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/1060/77468145.jpg

This is what I want to see in Sarajevo, but any major project like this will be put on hold as the new City Center is being consolidated around Stup-Dobroševići line.

Arbërori

08-23-2012, 10:26 PM

Will we make into Guiness world records book for having most statues per capita?

It would've looked pretty awesome without the statues, or atleast if the number was much, much smaller.:picard1:

Sultan Suleiman

08-23-2012, 10:30 PM

It would've looked pretty awesome without the statues, or atleast if the number was much, much smaller.:picard1:

The number of statues really kills the sense of the grandeur they were aiming for, but still you have to admire their effort.

P.S.: And instead of the Arch a massive Obelisk would be way more epic. :thumb001:

Arbërori

08-23-2012, 10:32 PM

The number of statues really kills the sense of the grandeur they were aiming for, but still you have to admire their effort.

P.S.: And instead of the Arch a massive Obelisk would be way more epic. :thumb001:

Yes, but common... They're all pilled up against eachother, which is definitely too much, makes the place look like Disneyland indeed.:rolleyes:

Speaking about the architecture... I like it!:thumb001:

Sultan Suleiman

08-23-2012, 10:35 PM

Yes, but common... They're all pilled up against eachother, which is definitely too much, makes the place look like Disneyland indeed.:rolleyes:

Speaking about the architecture... I like it!:thumb001:

The crappy little statues they can always send to smaller towns and cities,thus fixing their mistake. But can anyone give me some info in which part of Skopje is this being built and what is the proximity of the objects?

Arbërori

08-23-2012, 10:37 PM

The crappy little statues they can always send to smaller towns and cities,thus fixing their mistake. But can anyone give me some info in which part of Skopje is this being built and what is the proximity of the objects?

I doubt they will. I think it's the city centre if I'm not mistaken, around the Vardar river & close to this shopping mall, or that's what I remember.

I don't know about the proximity. Depends where & which buildings are being renovated.

poiuytrewq0987

08-23-2012, 10:38 PM

Sultan Suleiman

08-23-2012, 10:48 PM

Mostly city centre.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh141/Ristowski/343434-1.jpg

Thanks.

Judging by clips from AJB I thought the new buildings were more spread out.

Bugarash 1893

10-17-2012, 06:45 AM

We need to review the shit going on here:)

Another kitch birdge almost finished

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8029/8066124124_a6261ff5fb_b.jpg

dralos

10-17-2012, 10:35 AM

atleast disneyland is now much closer to me when i go to balkans:D

Lena

10-17-2012, 10:43 AM

We need to review the shit going on here:)

Another kitch birdge almost finished

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8029/8066124124_a6261ff5fb_b.jpg

Hahaha! While many tend to appreciate clean lines in modern archi structures, there are even more of those who love baroque architecture of Italy and Spain. Now, of course, refined person like you knows it :wink

Fortis in Arduis

10-17-2012, 10:53 AM

I certainly like how we combine new classical architecture with modern architecture. You can see modern windows on the new classical buildings and that is very nice I think. But yes, we should have incorporated more styles... though I don't think our architects are that experienced to combine more complex architecture...

Having looked at the old vernacular neo-classical style of Skopje from old photographs that you posted, the new buildings seem to match. They resemble the buildings that were destroyed by the earthquakes.

Lithium

10-17-2012, 10:59 AM

Hahaha! While many tend to appreciate clean lines in modern archi structures, there are even more of those who love baroque architecture of Italy and Spain. Now, of course, refined person like you knows it :wink

Actually it's not Italian or Spanish, if you guys dont know the Macedonians invented the Baroque style, or at least they claim that :rolleyes:

Lena

10-17-2012, 11:05 AM

Actually it's not Italian or Spanish, if you guys dont know the Macedonians invented the Baroque style, or at least they claim that :rolleyes:

You missed my point completely.

Petros Houhoulis

05-14-2013, 02:03 PM

What you really should have done:

http://www.balcanicaucaso.org/eng/Regions-and-countries/Macedonia/The-Death-of-Macedonian-Village

According to professor Nikola Panov from the Institute of Geography in Skopje, there is a clear correlation between the depopulation of the Macedonishtani village and the negative population growth the country has been experiencing in the last decade.
"We move in the completely wrong direction and do not have the vaguest idea how to help the Macedonishtani village" says professor Panov, "The land is being abandoned and at the same time we keep talking that agriculture is the backbone of our economy."
Professor Panov advocates a strategy for the revival of the Macedonishtani countryside. He says some of the villages need to go back to working the land, but the key for others would be the revival of craftsmanship or alternative forms of tourism. He also argues that many elderly from the Macedonishtani diaspora would consider returning and spending their days of pension in the native land, only if the villages could offer good conditions for return.
"There are around 1 million people in the world of Macedonishtani descent. I am convinced that many of them, especially pensioners would return to spend the rest of their lives in the beauty of the Macedonishtani countryside, if proper conditions created", says professor Panov. He offers for comparison the experience of Slovenia whose countryside is the selected destination of many pensioners from other EU countries, on account of good environment and lower prices.
That could be a strategy to explore in a mid to a long term. But before that, and this is clear at the very surface, without going into much detail, Macedonishtan needs to do something for its rural countryside immediately. It has the mechanism and the policy already. It needs to provide the funding. This much is clear.

Do you understand what was your mistake Makedonishtanis? Instead of filling the chiefs' village with garbage, you should have tried to develop the minor villages on the edges. Then, maybe you could have prevented the negative population growth in the fiefdom. Now it is too late. All of the idiots shall gather in the chiefs' village to admire the garbage, and the rest of the fiefdom shall simply cease to exist...