v2.6 ancient (refined)

[Feiichy]

Works for: central, eastern and Balkan Europeans. REST NO!. Scaled.


Eurasian,0.0629017,-0.236595,0.0722302,-0.0138233,-0.0540094,-0.0326376,0.0138195,0.0181792,0.0057311,0.0066217,-0.0095923,0.0015206,-0.0028723,0.0016479,0.0008709,-0.0031057,-0.0023258,-0.0016595,0.0015867,0.0086371,-0.0171806,-0.003357,-0.0155919,-0.0032137,-0.0009587
Old_German,0.1283926,0.1312062,0.0649404,0.055556, 0.0416692,0.0232594,0.00329,0.0050768,0.0030678,-0.0064512,-0.0073402,0.0026676,-0.0097818,-0.0069088,0.022068,0.0064438,-0.004407,0.002255,0.0052038,0.0029264,0.0083352,0. 0021266,0.0022924,0.0176892,-0.0002394
Keltic,0.129016,0.1473401,0.0501243,0.0143946,0.04 31652,0.0034073,0.0014815,0.0026186,0.0108576,0.02 11949,-0.0033889,0.0068092,-0.0136121,-0.0072761,0.0031865,-0.0007264,-0.0000964,0.0028753,0.0041316,-0.0000272,0.00153,0.0050321,-0.0020577,-0.003227,0.0002187
SE_Euro,0.1160693,0.1626614,0.0093189,-0.0404226,0.022414,-0.0139612,-0.0009635,-0.0004157,0.0075445,0.0308456,-0.0035275,0.0041855,-0.0188075,-0.004755,-0.0153123,-0.0093753,0.0108151,-0.0030687,0.0029708,-0.0095153,-0.0092863,0.0087089,-0.0012666,0.0070389,-0.0035969
Proto_Slav,0.1280698,0.1297874,0.0737197,0.0665258 ,0.0393722,0.0243673,0.0100339,0.0107155,0.001001,-0.0232604,-0.0012329,-0.0121771,0.0186664,0.026536,-0.0129782,-0.0019785,0.0014559,0.0011226,0.0023482,0.0029414,-0.003575,-0.0007801,0.0033404,-0.0129756,0.002079
Volga_Finn,0.1152459,0.0307198,0.0921116,0.088179 ,0.0026158,0.0160015,0.0117212,0.0158648,-0.00565,-0.0413678,0.0132145,-0.0100972,0.0231725,0.0002409,-0.0129442,-0.00121,0.0021512,-0.001346,-0.0039438,0.002345,0.0038838,-0.0019321,0.0021412,-0.0068834,0.0008382

[Feiichy]

Target: Feiichy_scaled
Distance: 0.0312% / 0.03123582

57.1 Proto_Slav
28.9 SE_Euro
13.0 Old_German
1.0 Volga_Finn


Target: Stears_scaled
Distance: 0.0164% / 0.01639702

38.2 Proto_Slav
28.5 SE_Euro
23.0 Old_German
7.1 Volga_Finn
3.2 Eurasian

[Feiichy]

My 2 buddies :cool:

https://i.imgur.com/v4eX7SL.jpeg

On the left: I2a-Y3120 Kajkavian speaking Croat

Target: Martin_scaled
Distance: 0.0254% / 0.02541865

55.2 Proto_Slav
27.8 Old_German
15.6 SE_Euro
1.4 Eurasian

On the right: R1a-CTS1211 Čakavian speaking Croat

Target: Daki_scaled
Distance: 0.0201% / 0.02010966

61.0 Proto_Slav
22.6 SE_Euro
16.2 Old_German
0.2 Keltic

[Mortimer]

My 2 buddies :cool:

[img]https://i.img/img]

On the left: I2a-Y3120 Kajkavian speaking Croat

Target: Martin_scaled
Distance: 0.0254% / 0.02541865

55.2 Proto_Slav
27.8 Old_German
15.6 SE_Euro
1.4 Eurasian

On the right: R1a-CTS1211 Čakavian speaking Croat

Target: Daki_scaled
Distance: 0.0201% / 0.02010966

61.0 Proto_Slav
22.6 SE_Euro
16.2 Old_German
0.2 Keltic

Übermenschen

[Feiichy]

All the averages were constructed from carefuly screened and selected ancient samples;

Distance to: Eurasian
0.08952814 Nogai
0.11114593 Dobrujan_Nogai
0.15616498 Bashkir
0.15803482 Komi_B
0.19889086 Dobrujan_Tatar
0.20043219 Tatar_Crimean_steppe
0.23226835 Tatar_Lipka
0.24395561 Mari
0.25125860 Udmurt
0.25129069 Saami_Norway


Distance to: Old_German
0.01128464 Danish
0.01159229 Norwegian
0.01268288 Frisian_Netherlands
0.01366947 Norwegian_Bergen
0.01460734 Icelandic
0.01796119 Shetlandic
0.01814805 Swedish
0.01903357 Dutch
0.01942831 Scottish
0.01975627 Orcadian


Distance to: Keltic
0.01066988 French_Occitan_Auvergne-Rhone-Alpes_Puy-de-Dome
0.01112617 French_Auvergne
0.01327857 French_Occitan_Occitanie_Haute-Garonne
0.01341333 French_Occitanie
0.01584943 French_Pays_de_la_Loire_Vendee
0.01739049 French
0.01761702 Swiss_French
0.02027430 Swiss_German
0.02132585 French_Canadian
0.02230686 French_Provence


Distance to: SE_Euro
0.02858147 Italian_Lazio
0.03165418 Italian_Umbria
0.03251975 Italian_Marche
0.03263341 Italian_Molise
0.03294727 Italian_Abruzzo
0.03317962 Italian_Apulia
0.03325926 Greek_Apulia
0.03469565 Italian_Basilicata
0.03580691 Italian_Tuscany
0.03699178 Italian_Campania


Distance to: Proto_Slav
0.01415176 Belarusian
0.01428394 Russian_Smolensk
0.01598366 Russian_Voronezh
0.01631404 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.01721179 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.01737822 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.01743548 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.01903361 Russian_Kaluga
0.01975875 Lithuanian_PA
0.01978615 Ukrainian_Dnipro


Distance to: Volga_Finn
0.02276795 Russian_Arkhangelsk_Leshukonsky
0.02693377 Komi_A
0.03200902 Saami_Kola
0.04321335 Russian_Arkhangelsk_Pinezhsky
0.04627168 Russian_Arkhangelsk_Pinega
0.05509079 Vepsian
0.05668646 Saami_Finland
0.05750028 Russian_Karelia_Zaoneje
0.05905352 Tatar_Mishar
0.05940090 Karelian

[Not a Cop]

What are the refferences?

Target: _scaled
Distance: 1.7676% / 0.01767600
52.2 Proto_Slav
24.8 Volga_Finn
23.0 Old_German

[Feiichy]

Übermenschen

Just my friends, good representatives of Croats who speak 2 archaic dialects.

here, you can try calc too, with added Roma reference:


EarlyModernBalkan_Roma,0.0859365,0.0619475,-0.060528,0.0176035,-0.018773,0.0119925,0.0005875,0.001615,0.011862,0.0 15946,-0.001786,-0.0028475,0.0026015,0.008326,-0.013233,-0.0104085,0.0068455,-0.001457,0.003771,-0.000375,0.002059,0.001113,0.000801,0.00235,0.0016 165
Eurasian,0.0629017,-0.236595,0.0722302,-0.0138233,-0.0540094,-0.0326376,0.0138195,0.0181792,0.0057311,0.0066217,-0.0095923,0.0015206,-0.0028723,0.0016479,0.0008709,-0.0031057,-0.0023258,-0.0016595,0.0015867,0.0086371,-0.0171806,-0.003357,-0.0155919,-0.0032137,-0.0009587
Old_German,0.1283926,0.1312062,0.0649404,0.055556, 0.0416692,0.0232594,0.00329,0.0050768,0.0030678,-0.0064512,-0.0073402,0.0026676,-0.0097818,-0.0069088,0.022068,0.0064438,-0.004407,0.002255,0.0052038,0.0029264,0.0083352,0. 0021266,0.0022924,0.0176892,-0.0002394
Keltic,0.129016,0.1473401,0.0501243,0.0143946,0.04 31652,0.0034073,0.0014815,0.0026186,0.0108576,0.02 11949,-0.0033889,0.0068092,-0.0136121,-0.0072761,0.0031865,-0.0007264,-0.0000964,0.0028753,0.0041316,-0.0000272,0.00153,0.0050321,-0.0020577,-0.003227,0.0002187
SE_Euro,0.1160693,0.1626614,0.0093189,-0.0404226,0.022414,-0.0139612,-0.0009635,-0.0004157,0.0075445,0.0308456,-0.0035275,0.0041855,-0.0188075,-0.004755,-0.0153123,-0.0093753,0.0108151,-0.0030687,0.0029708,-0.0095153,-0.0092863,0.0087089,-0.0012666,0.0070389,-0.0035969
Proto_Slav,0.1280698,0.1297874,0.0737197,0.0665258 ,0.0393722,0.0243673,0.0100339,0.0107155,0.001001,-0.0232604,-0.0012329,-0.0121771,0.0186664,0.026536,-0.0129782,-0.0019785,0.0014559,0.0011226,0.0023482,0.0029414,-0.003575,-0.0007801,0.0033404,-0.0129756,0.002079
Volga_Finn,0.1152459,0.0307198,0.0921116,0.088179 ,0.0026158,0.0160015,0.0117212,0.0158648,-0.00565,-0.0413678,0.0132145,-0.0100972,0.0231725,0.0002409,-0.0129442,-0.00121,0.0021512,-0.001346,-0.0039438,0.002345,0.0038838,-0.0019321,0.0021412,-0.0068834,0.0008382

[Mortimer]

I did it without the volga finn because of copy paste problems if someone is kind enough he can run mine with volga finn reference included thanks

Target: Svetozar_scaled
Distance: 6.5527% / 0.06552662
55.8 SE_Euro
23.4 Proto_Slav
15.0 Eurasian
5.8 Old_German


Svetozar_scaled,0.101303,0.088351,-0.014331,0.017765,0.007386,0.006693,0.001175,0.004 154,0.003068,0.01221,-0.003735,0.002248,-0.001041,0.00578,-0.012758,0.009016,0.018515,0.004181,0.005908,-0.002001,0.004367,-0.000371,0.00456,-0.000482,-0.005748

[Mortimer]

Just my friends, good representatives of Croats who speak 2 archaic dialects.

here, you can try calc too, with added Roma reference:


EarlyModernBalkan_Roma,0.0859365,0.0619475,-0.060528,0.0176035,-0.018773,0.0119925,0.0005875,0.001615,0.011862,0.0 15946,-0.001786,-0.0028475,0.0026015,0.008326,-0.013233,-0.0104085,0.0068455,-0.001457,0.003771,-0.000375,0.002059,0.001113,0.000801,0.00235,0.0016 165
Eurasian,0.0629017,-0.236595,0.0722302,-0.0138233,-0.0540094,-0.0326376,0.0138195,0.0181792,0.0057311,0.0066217,-0.0095923,0.0015206,-0.0028723,0.0016479,0.0008709,-0.0031057,-0.0023258,-0.0016595,0.0015867,0.0086371,-0.0171806,-0.003357,-0.0155919,-0.0032137,-0.0009587
Old_German,0.1283926,0.1312062,0.0649404,0.055556, 0.0416692,0.0232594,0.00329,0.0050768,0.0030678,-0.0064512,-0.0073402,0.0026676,-0.0097818,-0.0069088,0.022068,0.0064438,-0.004407,0.002255,0.0052038,0.0029264,0.0083352,0. 0021266,0.0022924,0.0176892,-0.0002394
Keltic,0.129016,0.1473401,0.0501243,0.0143946,0.04 31652,0.0034073,0.0014815,0.0026186,0.0108576,0.02 11949,-0.0033889,0.0068092,-0.0136121,-0.0072761,0.0031865,-0.0007264,-0.0000964,0.0028753,0.0041316,-0.0000272,0.00153,0.0050321,-0.0020577,-0.003227,0.0002187
SE_Euro,0.1160693,0.1626614,0.0093189,-0.0404226,0.022414,-0.0139612,-0.0009635,-0.0004157,0.0075445,0.0308456,-0.0035275,0.0041855,-0.0188075,-0.004755,-0.0153123,-0.0093753,0.0108151,-0.0030687,0.0029708,-0.0095153,-0.0092863,0.0087089,-0.0012666,0.0070389,-0.0035969
Proto_Slav,0.1280698,0.1297874,0.0737197,0.0665258 ,0.0393722,0.0243673,0.0100339,0.0107155,0.001001,-0.0232604,-0.0012329,-0.0121771,0.0186664,0.026536,-0.0129782,-0.0019785,0.0014559,0.0011226,0.0023482,0.0029414,-0.003575,-0.0007801,0.0033404,-0.0129756,0.002079
Volga_Finn,0.1152459,0.0307198,0.0921116,0.088179 ,0.0026158,0.0160015,0.0117212,0.0158648,-0.00565,-0.0413678,0.0132145,-0.0100972,0.0231725,0.0002409,-0.0129442,-0.00121,0.0021512,-0.001346,-0.0039438,0.002345,0.0038838,-0.0019321,0.0021412,-0.0068834,0.0008382

Cool could you run mine please with the roma reference thanks because i have problems with copy paste

Svetozar_scaled,0.101303,0.088351,-0.014331,0.017765,0.007386,0.006693,0.001175,0.004 154,0.003068,0.01221,-0.003735,0.002248,-0.001041,0.00578,-0.012758,0.009016,0.018515,0.004181,0.005908,-0.002001,0.004367,-0.000371,0.00456,-0.000482,-0.005748

[Feiichy]

...

Target: Svetozar_scaled
Distance: 0.0256% / 0.02557194

55.5 EarlyModernBalkan_Roma
13.6 SE_Euro
11.2 Keltic
9.4 Proto_Slav
6.2 Old_German
2.3 Volga_Finn
1.8 Eurasian

[Mortimer]

Target: Svetozar_scaled
Distance: 0.0256% / 0.02557194

55.5 EarlyModernBalkan_Roma
13.6 SE_Euro
11.2 Keltic
9.4 Proto_Slav
6.2 Old_German
2.3 Volga_Finn
1.8 Eurasian

Thanks very much

[Feiichy]

What are the refferences?

Target: _scaled
Distance: 1.7676% / 0.01767600
52.2 Proto_Slav
24.8 Volga_Finn
23.0 Old_German

For proto Slavs I followed guidelines from latest scientific paper on Slavic expansion.


Proto Slavs formed as mix of roughly 70% Baltic BA + 30% Dacian-like, somewhere between Baltic and Black Sea (northern Ukraine, southern Belarus)

https://i.imgur.com/1iFiX98.png

Therefore I constructed G25 average that is roughly 70% Baltic Bronze Age + 30% Moldova Scythian (those with east Balkan genetic profile). Unsurprisingly, average came out Belarusian like.

[Feiichy]

Thanks very much

You are welcome!

[Feiichy]

What are the refferences?

Target: _scaled
Distance: 1.7676% / 0.01767600
52.2 Proto_Slav
24.8 Volga_Finn
23.0 Old_German

Volga Finn: Volga-Oka Iron Age
Old German: medieval Saxons from frau #Oda# homeland, lower Saxony. I filtered out those that lacked Celtic admixture
SE Euro: Albania medieval + filtered clean Roman era samples from Montenegro, Croatia, Bulgaria
Keltic: Iron Age Austria + La Tene filtered samples from Slovakia, Slovenia and Czech Republic (I on purpose ommited French Gauls)
Eurasian: various Avar, Hunnic and Magyar elite samples from Hungary

[Feiichy]

I also opted not to include Baltic samples because overalp with early Slavs is too large.

[Vessna]

Target: Vessna_scaled
Distance: 2.2262% / 0.02226211
91.4 Proto_Slav
6.8 Volga_Finn
1.8 Old_German

Distance to: Vessna_scaled
0.02370887 Proto_Slav
0.07460429 Old_German
0.10290996 Keltic
0.11116809 Volga_Finn
0.16316881 SE_Euro
0.39330486 Eurasian

[Feiichy]

Target: Vessna_scaled
Distance: 2.2262% / 0.02226211
91.4 Proto_Slav
6.8 Volga_Finn
1.8 Old_German

Distance to: Vessna_scaled
0.02370887 Proto_Slav
0.07460429 Old_German
0.10290996 Keltic
0.11116809 Volga_Finn
0.16316881 SE_Euro
0.39330486 Eurasian

Very pure unaltered early Slav, like Belarusians are.

[Not a Cop]

For proto Slavs I followed guidelines from latest scientific paper on Slavic expansion.



Therefore I constructed G25 average that is roughly 70% Baltic Bronze Age + 30% Moldova Scythian (those with east Balkan genetic profile). Unsurprisingly, average came out Belarusian like.

For my samples Germanic seems to be coming a bit higher than expected.

[Feiichy]

For my samples Germanic seems to be coming a bit higher than expected.

could be lack of Baltic, I believe you have substantial Baltic as well. But adding Baltic screws modeling for everyone else unfortunately.

[Feiichy]

Target: Feiichy_scaled
Distance: 0.0312% / 0.03123582

57.1 Proto_Slav
28.9 SE_Euro
13.0 Old_German
1.0 Volga_Finn


Target: Stears_scaled
Distance: 0.0164% / 0.01639702

38.2 Proto_Slav
28.5 SE_Euro
23.0 Old_German
7.1 Volga_Finn
3.2 Eurasian

Notic how Stears and me have near identical amount of Balkan admixture. But I am notably more Slavic, and he notably more Germanic and Asian. :D

[Mortimer]

Notic how Stears and me have near identical amount of Balkan admixture. But I am notably more Slavic, and he notably more Germanic and Asian. :D

Do you think the german and Celtic is real for me or its just Balkan

[Feiichy]

Do you think the german and Celtic is real for me or its just Balkan

Germanic has no overlap with SE Euro. Keltic does, but not really with Roman era/medieval Balkanites.

[JohnDoe22]

Target: JohnDoe
Distance: 1.2801% / 0.01280118
52.8 Proto_Slav
31.6 SE_Euro
15.4 Old_German
0.2 Keltic

[Kostek]

Target: Kostek_scaled
Distance: 2.4958% / 0.02495819
86.2 Proto_Slav
11.6 Old_German
2.2 SE_Euro

Target: Grandpa_scaled
Distance: 1.9237% / 0.01923709
78.0 Proto_Slav
16.8 SE_Euro
5.2 Volga_Finn

[majevica]

Target: scaled
Distance: 2.0214% / 0.02021403
57.6 Proto_Slav
39.0 SE_Euro
2.0 Keltic
1.4 Eurasian

With Roma

Target: scaled
Distance: 1.9853% / 0.01985259
55.2 Proto_Slav
33.2 SE_Euro
6.6 Keltic
5.0 EarlyModernBalkan_Roma

[JohnDoe22]

Target: scaled
Distance: 2.0214% / 0.02021403
57.6 Proto_Slav
39.0 SE_Euro
2.0 Keltic
1.4 Eurasian

With Roma

Target: scaled
Distance: 1.9853% / 0.01985259
55.2 Proto_Slav
33.2 SE_Euro
6.6 Keltic
5.0 EarlyModernBalkan_Roma

Cudno kalko balkan Roma skine 2% slovenskoga ?
Inace imas bas poprilicno slovenske genetike, baram na ovom kalkulatoru.

[Dušan]

Works for: central, eastern and Balkan Europeans. REST NO!. Scaled.


Eurasian,0.0629017,-0.236595,0.0722302,-0.0138233,-0.0540094,-0.0326376,0.0138195,0.0181792,0.0057311,0.0066217,-0.0095923,0.0015206,-0.0028723,0.0016479,0.0008709,-0.0031057,-0.0023258,-0.0016595,0.0015867,0.0086371,-0.0171806,-0.003357,-0.0155919,-0.0032137,-0.0009587
Old_German,0.1283926,0.1312062,0.0649404,0.055556, 0.0416692,0.0232594,0.00329,0.0050768,0.0030678,-0.0064512,-0.0073402,0.0026676,-0.0097818,-0.0069088,0.022068,0.0064438,-0.004407,0.002255,0.0052038,0.0029264,0.0083352,0. 0021266,0.0022924,0.0176892,-0.0002394
Keltic,0.129016,0.1473401,0.0501243,0.0143946,0.04 31652,0.0034073,0.0014815,0.0026186,0.0108576,0.02 11949,-0.0033889,0.0068092,-0.0136121,-0.0072761,0.0031865,-0.0007264,-0.0000964,0.0028753,0.0041316,-0.0000272,0.00153,0.0050321,-0.0020577,-0.003227,0.0002187
SE_Euro,0.1160693,0.1626614,0.0093189,-0.0404226,0.022414,-0.0139612,-0.0009635,-0.0004157,0.0075445,0.0308456,-0.0035275,0.0041855,-0.0188075,-0.004755,-0.0153123,-0.0093753,0.0108151,-0.0030687,0.0029708,-0.0095153,-0.0092863,0.0087089,-0.0012666,0.0070389,-0.0035969
Proto_Slav,0.1280698,0.1297874,0.0737197,0.0665258 ,0.0393722,0.0243673,0.0100339,0.0107155,0.001001,-0.0232604,-0.0012329,-0.0121771,0.0186664,0.026536,-0.0129782,-0.0019785,0.0014559,0.0011226,0.0023482,0.0029414,-0.003575,-0.0007801,0.0033404,-0.0129756,0.002079
Volga_Finn,0.1152459,0.0307198,0.0921116,0.088179 ,0.0026158,0.0160015,0.0117212,0.0158648,-0.00565,-0.0413678,0.0132145,-0.0100972,0.0231725,0.0002409,-0.0129442,-0.00121,0.0021512,-0.001346,-0.0039438,0.002345,0.0038838,-0.0019321,0.0021412,-0.0068834,0.0008382



Target: Dušan_scaled
Distance: 2.5257% / 0.02525666
59.4 Proto_Slav
38.8 SE_Euro
1.8 Eurasian

Avar stronk!

[noricum]

Target: G25noricum_scaled
Distance: 0.0238% / 0.02380227
49.1 Proto_Slav
20.0 Old_German
15.8 SE_Euro
15.1 Keltic

[Mortimer]

Target: G25noricum_scaled
Distance: 0.0238% / 0.02380227
49.1 Proto_Slav
20.0 Old_German
15.8 SE_Euro
15.1 Keltic

You are few german for a german

[JohnDoe22]

Mislim da ne bi bilo lose probati i sa ovim uzorkom, mislim da je to jedan od najcistijih nordic uzoraka koji postoje.
Nordic_Scandi_Norway:VK540_Norway_VA,0.134311,0.14 6236,0.086359,0.066861,0.051086,0.023705,0.016456, 0.010384,-0.007159,-0.01549,-0.012342,-0.008392,-0.003086,-0.013095,0.023344,0.010731,0.000378,0.004674,-0.00955,-0.001251,0.004742,-0.000866,-0.007766,0.012294,0.010418
Nordic_Scandi:VK531_Norway_IA,0.129200,0.146800,0. 085100,0.063500,0.046900,0.021600,0.014700,0.01010 0,-0.008400,-0.016200,-0.013900,-0.007400,-0.003900,-0.012200,0.022000,0.009800,0.000100,0.004000,-0.009200,-0.000400,0.004100,-0.000100,-0.007600,0.011800,0.010400

Tacnije oba ova.

[Feiichy]

Mislim da ne bi bilo lose probati i sa ovim uzorkom, mislim da je to jedan od najcistijih nordic uzoraka koji postoje.
Nordic_Scandi_Norway:VK540_Norway_VA,0.134311,0.14 6236,0.086359,0.066861,0.051086,0.023705,0.016456, 0.010384,-0.007159,-0.01549,-0.012342,-0.008392,-0.003086,-0.013095,0.023344,0.010731,0.000378,0.004674,-0.00955,-0.001251,0.004742,-0.000866,-0.007766,0.012294,0.010418
Nordic_Scandi:VK531_Norway_IA,0.129200,0.146800,0. 085100,0.063500,0.046900,0.021600,0.014700,0.01010 0,-0.008400,-0.016200,-0.013900,-0.007400,-0.003900,-0.012200,0.022000,0.009800,0.000100,0.004000,-0.009200,-0.000400,0.004100,-0.000100,-0.007600,0.011800,0.010400

Tacnije oba ova.

There were no Germanics in Iron Age Norway. Germanics originate from northwestern Germany. Samples I selected are ideal, they are Frisian like and Frisians are known as purest Germanic population.

Nordic =/= Germanic

[JohnDoe22]

Target: JohnDoe
Distance: 1.2675% / 0.01267494
52.8 Proto_Slav
33.0 SE_Euro
12.0 Nordic_Scandi_Norway
1.8 Keltic
0.4 Volga_Finn

Nah, it's same..I expected more slavic and a bit less "germanic" whit these norway samples

[noricum]

You are few german for a german

I got very normal results for an SE Autrian, as you should know by now.

[JohnDoe22]

There were no Germanics in Iron Age Norway. Germanics originate from northwestern Germany. Samples I selected are ideal, they are Frisian like and Frisians are known as purest Germanic population.

Nordic =/= Germanic

Yes I know, I trying that bc of my case, I expected to got a bit more slavic and less germanic whit these Norway samples ( they are very north shifted whitout to much continental (or slavic/baltic imput), but it stayed the same.

[Mortimer]

I got very normal results for an SE Autrian, as you should know by now.

I know you are austrian but austrians are germans and i know it but its still interesting to me how parts of Austria are few german i wonder what south tyrolans score

[Feiichy]

My father gets interesting results :D

Target: Papa_scaled
Distance: 0.0306% / 0.03058678

45.9 Proto_Slav
29.0 SE_Euro
10.5 Old_German
9.0 Volga_Finn
5.4 Keltic
0.2 Eurasian

[Feiichy]

I know you are austrian but austrians are germans and i know it but its still interesting to me how parts of Austria are few german i wonder what south tyrolans score

I got new G25 coords of fortress europe who is Austrian from Burgenland + bit Bohemia. He is rather strongly Germanic, above 50%. But also highly Slavic. New G25 coords (from IllustrativeDNA) are not compatible with those sadly, because I think they are an improvement from Davidski G25.

fortress europe is east German like, closest genetically to some of rothaer's children.

[Dušan]

https://i.imgur.com/CxAYFBf.png

[JohnDoe22]

Celtic-Germanic Strong :D
Also, a high scores Volga Finn

[Feiichy]

I know you are austrian but austrians are germans and i know it but its still interesting to me how parts of Austria are few german i wonder what south tyrolans score

Vienna academic average:

Target: Austrian
Distance: 0.0097% / 0.00970375

30.8 Old_German
28.1 Proto_Slav
20.9 Keltic
17.6 SE_Euro
1.8 Volga_Finn
0.8 Eurasian

[Mortimer]

Vienna academic average:

Target: Austrian
Distance: 0.0097% / 0.00970375

30.8 Old_German
28.1 Proto_Slav
20.9 Keltic
17.6 SE_Euro
1.8 Volga_Finn
0.8 Eurasian

Still high slavic and even balkan considering how the austrians (maybe not anymore) considered Balkan as very foreign its still interesting

[Feiichy]

from updated Russki sheet:

Target: Croat (main cluster)
Distance: 0.0169% / 0.01692738
61.1 Proto_Slav
35.4 SE_Euro
1.8 Volga_Finn
1.7 Old_German

Target: Croat_North
Distance: 0.0105% / 0.01054596
54.3 Proto_Slav
28.0 Old_German
16.0 SE_Euro
1.7 Eurasian

Target: Croat_Herzegovina
Distance: 0.0158% / 0.01579652
57.4 Proto_Slav
36.5 SE_Euro
4.4 Old_German
1.7 Volga_Finn

Target: Croat_Dalmatia
Distance: 0.0159% / 0.01589151
53.6 Proto_Slav
32.7 SE_Euro
6.5 Old_German
4.2 Keltic
3.0 Volga_Finn

Target: Croat_Bosnia
Distance: 0.0185% / 0.01846780
55.8 Proto_Slav
40.4 SE_Euro
3.8 Volga_Finn

[Vessna]

Target: husband _scaled
Distance: 2.2780% / 0.02278001
61.4 Proto_Slav
33.8 Volga_Finn
3.8 Old_German
1.0 Eurasian

Target: husband_scaled
Distance: 2.1821% / 0.02182129
56.6 Proto_Slav
32.0 Volga_Finn
9.6 Nordic_Scandi_Norway:VK540_Norway_VA
1.8 Eurasian


Distance to: husband _scaled
0.04861685 Proto_Slav
0.07769242 Volga_Finn
0.08441964 Old_German
0.11978070 Keltic
0.18308331 SE_Euro
0.36410271 Eurasian

[Feiichy]

Still high slavic and even balkan considering how the austrians (maybe not anymore) considered Balkan as very foreign its still interesting

Vienna is rather mixed, and it lies in eastern Austria. Locals there have lot of Czech admixture for eg. As for Balkan, southern Austria and Slovenia were transitional Keltic-Illyrian zone + Austria received southern Roman input.

[Mortimer]

Vienna is rather mixed, and it lies in eastern Austria. Locals there have lot of Czech admixture for eg. As for Balkan, southern Austria and Slovenia were transitional Keltic-Illyrian zone.

I dont make fun or judge anything its just very interesting all of that

[leachim_x]

Target: Lx_K36
Distance: 0.9852% / 0.00985234
59.8 Old_German
34.6 Keltic
3.2 Proto_Slav
2.4 SE_Euro

[Dušan]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19A8CNksIdl4YQviyti7ImIptj23VW2Bi/view

https://i.imgur.com/gMHa5CH.png

[Vessna]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19A8CNksIdl4YQviyti7ImIptj23VW2Bi/view

https://i.imgur.com/gMHa5CH.png

I am surprised by quite high Eurasian

[JohnDoe22]

Target: husband _scaled
Distance: 2.2780% / 0.02278001
61.4 Proto_Slav
33.8 Volga_Finn
3.8 Old_German
1.0 Eurasian

Target: husband_scaled
Distance: 2.1821% / 0.02182129
56.6 Proto_Slav
32.0 Volga_Finn
9.6 Nordic_Scandi_Norway:VK540_Norway_VA
1.8 Eurasian


Distance to: husband _scaled
0.04861685 Proto_Slav
0.07769242 Volga_Finn
0.08441964 Old_German
0.11978070 Keltic
0.18308331 SE_Euro
0.36410271 Eurasian

:biggrin:

[Dušan]

I am surprised by quite high Eurasian

Actually, me too.
I thought only I will get it (as usual :P), but all averages got it.



Serb,0.1273111,0.1375873,0.0399434,0.0156978,0.032 0674,0.0048945,0.004653,0.0064112,0.0005079,0.0014 882,-0.0013776,-0.0014736,0.0028593,0.0122966,-0.0137462,-0.0017722,0.0058303,0.0002893,0.0059099,-0.0023574,-0.0077259,-0.0009975,0.0050203,-0.0002068,-0.0015786
Serb_Belgrade,0.12733343,0.137229,0.040023957,0.01 4829913,0.031497435,0.0045956522,0.0048737826,0.00 6672,-0.0011737391,-0.0000078695652,-0.0022945652,-0.001251,0.0034127826,0.012433957,-0.012887522,-0.00083582609,0.0040475652,0.0005893913,0.00430108 7,-0.0024467826,-0.0083167826,-0.001715087,0.0048924783,0.000372,-0.0020096522
Serb_Bosnia,0.129433,0.13927243,0.046278143,0.0237 17429,0.031522286,0.007849,0.0047,0.007813,0.00257 11429,0.00028628571,-0.004338,-0.003554,0.0041198571,0.014332571,-0.014444571,-0.0035798571,0.0047682857,-0.0019727143,0.0044532857,-0.00050042857,-0.009091,-0.0013425714,0.0045602857,0.00013785714,-0.00035928571
Serb_Croatia,0.127482,0.1365885,0.0418605,0.016311 5,0.0312365,0.0076695,0.001175,0.003,-0.00225,-0.001822,-0.003329,-0.003372,0.0023785,0.0104595,-0.0186615,-0.0090825,-0.0028035,0.0020905,0.003331,-0.004565,-0.0068625,-0.0102635,0.005423,0.002952,-0.003712
Serb_Montenegro,0.12710222,0.13777333,0.036413,0.0 11089667,0.030091111,0.0036256667,0.0047,0.0038715 556,0.0018862222,0.0040901111,0.00019833333,0.0014 487778,0.0021804444,0.011009778,-0.014944444,-0.00013255556,0.014675444,0.0023226667,0.007877,-0.00066688889,-0.0099824444,0.0015248889,0.0071073333,-0.0018476667,-0.00318
Serb_SouthSerbia,0.1278138,0.1368088,0.0376997,0.0 130627,0.0327932,0.0034512,0.0050898,0.0057324,-0.0010857,0.0050311,-0.0016833,-0.0017011,0.0009712,0.0096473,-0.0146907,-0.0016882,0.0074763,0.0009458,0.0060702,-0.0039779,-0.0062828,0.000171,0.0037271,0.0003082,-0.0000638
Serb_Sumadija,0.12813257,0.13869229,0.040298143,0. 015411714,0.033764286,0.006773,0.0058751429,0.0076 15,0.00064271429,0.00041642857,-0.00067271429,-0.0018624286,0.0063074286,0.016318,-0.016887571,-0.0016478571,0.0060907143,-0.00068757143,0.0053691429,-0.00042857143,-0.0089128571,0.000053142857,0.0026761429,0.0013771 429,-0.00078671429
Serb_WestSerbia,0.1269758,0.1361936,0.0403726,0.01 28482,0.0337839,0.0063526,0.0043997,0.0051152,0.00 06589,0.0009415,-0.0020389,-0.0006493,0.0021803,0.0139763,-0.0138209,-0.0059887,0.0019124,-0.0011614,0.0076186,-0.0001045,-0.0067381,-0.0005907,0.0049301,-0.0038291,-0.0008314

[Feiichy]

Eurasian average is more northern than I expected. Those Avars were highly northeast Siberian/Mongol like. Magyars were bit different, but average is overwhelmingly made of Panonnian Avars.

I tought it would lean more central Asian Turkic but it does not.

[JohnDoe22]

Actually, me too.
I thought only I will get it (as usual :P), but all averages got it.



Serb,0.1273111,0.1375873,0.0399434,0.0156978,0.032 0674,0.0048945,0.004653,0.0064112,0.0005079,0.0014 882,-0.0013776,-0.0014736,0.0028593,0.0122966,-0.0137462,-0.0017722,0.0058303,0.0002893,0.0059099,-0.0023574,-0.0077259,-0.0009975,0.0050203,-0.0002068,-0.0015786
Serb_Belgrade,0.12733343,0.137229,0.040023957,0.01 4829913,0.031497435,0.0045956522,0.0048737826,0.00 6672,-0.0011737391,-0.0000078695652,-0.0022945652,-0.001251,0.0034127826,0.012433957,-0.012887522,-0.00083582609,0.0040475652,0.0005893913,0.00430108 7,-0.0024467826,-0.0083167826,-0.001715087,0.0048924783,0.000372,-0.0020096522
Serb_Bosnia,0.129433,0.13927243,0.046278143,0.0237 17429,0.031522286,0.007849,0.0047,0.007813,0.00257 11429,0.00028628571,-0.004338,-0.003554,0.0041198571,0.014332571,-0.014444571,-0.0035798571,0.0047682857,-0.0019727143,0.0044532857,-0.00050042857,-0.009091,-0.0013425714,0.0045602857,0.00013785714,-0.00035928571
Serb_Croatia,0.127482,0.1365885,0.0418605,0.016311 5,0.0312365,0.0076695,0.001175,0.003,-0.00225,-0.001822,-0.003329,-0.003372,0.0023785,0.0104595,-0.0186615,-0.0090825,-0.0028035,0.0020905,0.003331,-0.004565,-0.0068625,-0.0102635,0.005423,0.002952,-0.003712
Serb_Montenegro,0.12710222,0.13777333,0.036413,0.0 11089667,0.030091111,0.0036256667,0.0047,0.0038715 556,0.0018862222,0.0040901111,0.00019833333,0.0014 487778,0.0021804444,0.011009778,-0.014944444,-0.00013255556,0.014675444,0.0023226667,0.007877,-0.00066688889,-0.0099824444,0.0015248889,0.0071073333,-0.0018476667,-0.00318
Serb_SouthSerbia,0.1278138,0.1368088,0.0376997,0.0 130627,0.0327932,0.0034512,0.0050898,0.0057324,-0.0010857,0.0050311,-0.0016833,-0.0017011,0.0009712,0.0096473,-0.0146907,-0.0016882,0.0074763,0.0009458,0.0060702,-0.0039779,-0.0062828,0.000171,0.0037271,0.0003082,-0.0000638
Serb_Sumadija,0.12813257,0.13869229,0.040298143,0. 015411714,0.033764286,0.006773,0.0058751429,0.0076 15,0.00064271429,0.00041642857,-0.00067271429,-0.0018624286,0.0063074286,0.016318,-0.016887571,-0.0016478571,0.0060907143,-0.00068757143,0.0053691429,-0.00042857143,-0.0089128571,0.000053142857,0.0026761429,0.0013771 429,-0.00078671429
Serb_WestSerbia,0.1269758,0.1361936,0.0403726,0.01 28482,0.0337839,0.0063526,0.0043997,0.0051152,0.00 06589,0.0009415,-0.0020389,-0.0006493,0.0021803,0.0139763,-0.0138209,-0.0059887,0.0019124,-0.0011614,0.0076186,-0.0001045,-0.0067381,-0.0005907,0.0049301,-0.0038291,-0.0008314


new serbian averages from regions https://share.google/zktmgbfQtDXR9yswH

Try the new ones, I am intresting to see what's going to pop's out

[Mortimer]

Actually, me too.
I thought only I will get it (as usual :P), but all averages got it.



Serb,0.1273111,0.1375873,0.0399434,0.0156978,0.032 0674,0.0048945,0.004653,0.0064112,0.0005079,0.0014 882,-0.0013776,-0.0014736,0.0028593,0.0122966,-0.0137462,-0.0017722,0.0058303,0.0002893,0.0059099,-0.0023574,-0.0077259,-0.0009975,0.0050203,-0.0002068,-0.0015786
Serb_Belgrade,0.12733343,0.137229,0.040023957,0.01 4829913,0.031497435,0.0045956522,0.0048737826,0.00 6672,-0.0011737391,-0.0000078695652,-0.0022945652,-0.001251,0.0034127826,0.012433957,-0.012887522,-0.00083582609,0.0040475652,0.0005893913,0.00430108 7,-0.0024467826,-0.0083167826,-0.001715087,0.0048924783,0.000372,-0.0020096522
Serb_Bosnia,0.129433,0.13927243,0.046278143,0.0237 17429,0.031522286,0.007849,0.0047,0.007813,0.00257 11429,0.00028628571,-0.004338,-0.003554,0.0041198571,0.014332571,-0.014444571,-0.0035798571,0.0047682857,-0.0019727143,0.0044532857,-0.00050042857,-0.009091,-0.0013425714,0.0045602857,0.00013785714,-0.00035928571
Serb_Croatia,0.127482,0.1365885,0.0418605,0.016311 5,0.0312365,0.0076695,0.001175,0.003,-0.00225,-0.001822,-0.003329,-0.003372,0.0023785,0.0104595,-0.0186615,-0.0090825,-0.0028035,0.0020905,0.003331,-0.004565,-0.0068625,-0.0102635,0.005423,0.002952,-0.003712
Serb_Montenegro,0.12710222,0.13777333,0.036413,0.0 11089667,0.030091111,0.0036256667,0.0047,0.0038715 556,0.0018862222,0.0040901111,0.00019833333,0.0014 487778,0.0021804444,0.011009778,-0.014944444,-0.00013255556,0.014675444,0.0023226667,0.007877,-0.00066688889,-0.0099824444,0.0015248889,0.0071073333,-0.0018476667,-0.00318
Serb_SouthSerbia,0.1278138,0.1368088,0.0376997,0.0 130627,0.0327932,0.0034512,0.0050898,0.0057324,-0.0010857,0.0050311,-0.0016833,-0.0017011,0.0009712,0.0096473,-0.0146907,-0.0016882,0.0074763,0.0009458,0.0060702,-0.0039779,-0.0062828,0.000171,0.0037271,0.0003082,-0.0000638
Serb_Sumadija,0.12813257,0.13869229,0.040298143,0. 015411714,0.033764286,0.006773,0.0058751429,0.0076 15,0.00064271429,0.00041642857,-0.00067271429,-0.0018624286,0.0063074286,0.016318,-0.016887571,-0.0016478571,0.0060907143,-0.00068757143,0.0053691429,-0.00042857143,-0.0089128571,0.000053142857,0.0026761429,0.0013771 429,-0.00078671429
Serb_WestSerbia,0.1269758,0.1361936,0.0403726,0.01 28482,0.0337839,0.0063526,0.0043997,0.0051152,0.00 06589,0.0009415,-0.0020389,-0.0006493,0.0021803,0.0139763,-0.0138209,-0.0059887,0.0019124,-0.0011614,0.0076186,-0.0001045,-0.0067381,-0.0005907,0.0049301,-0.0038291,-0.0008314


It would not surprise me if its a part of little turkish ancestry i think turks are 20percent eurasian no offense to anyone or sensibilities but im still surprised Balkan people have zero turkish ancestry not even Muslims?

[Scandal]

Pseudo G25 (converted from my k36 cords)

Target: Scandal
Distance: 1.2973% / 0.01297314
66.0 Proto_Slav
18.6 Old_German
15.4 SE_Euro

[majevica]

Cudno kalko balkan Roma skine 2% slovenskoga ?
Inace imas bas poprilicno slovenske genetike, baram na ovom kalkulatoru.

Mislim da imam nesto istocniju genetiku pa mi daje Rome, ako dodajem ekstra Anadoliju i Skite na primer ne dobivam ih vise

Target: scaled
Distance: 1.8226% / 0.01822618
55.4 Proto_Slav
28.8 SE_Euro
8.4 Ukraine_Scythian:MJ35
7.4 Turkey_Central_Kalehoyuk_OldHittitePeriod

Target: Turkey_Central_Kalehoyuk_OldHittitePeriod
Distance: 2.4564% / 0.02456395 | R3P
51.0 Armenian_Sasun_(n=5)
28.8 Sardinian_(n=10)
20.2 Syrian_Arab_Christian_Melkite_Greek_Catholic_(n=3)

Target: Ukraine_Scythian:MJ35
Distance: 3.5230% / 0.03523016 | R3P
41.8 Russian_Lipetsk_(n=1)
40.6 Tajik_Takhar_(n=1)
17.6 Dutch_South_Holland_(n=2)

[Dušan]

new serbian averages from regions https://share.google/zktmgbfQtDXR9yswH

Try the new ones, I am intresting to see what's going to pop's out

https://i.imgur.com/AOrIG84.png

[Vessna]

Pseudo G25 (converted from my k36 cords)

Target: Scandal
Distance: 1.2973% / 0.01297314
66.0 Proto_Slav
18.6 Old_German
15.4 SE_Euro

more Slavic than Northern Russians

[ScandinavianCelt]

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 1.9420% / 0.01942039
80.4 Old_German
11.4 SE_Euro
8.2 Volga_Finn

[Coastal Elite]

Target: CE_scaled
Distance: 1.5850% / 0.01584976
54.0 Old_German
35.8 SE_Euro
5.6 Volga_Finn
3.8 Keltic
0.6 Eurasian
0.2 Proto_Slav

[Fistora]

Target: me_scaled
Distance: 3.1451% / 0.03145138
62.0 Proto_Slav
25.0 Old_German
10.2 SE_Euro
2.8 Volga_Finn

Distance to: me_scaled
0.04287059 Proto_Slav
0.05743104 Old_German
0.07784485 Keltic
0.12648124 Volga_Finn
0.13978832 SE_Euro
0.39458801 Eurasian

[JohnDoe22]

Volga_Finn probably have nice asian admix

[Xavier727]

Target: Holden_scaled
Distance: 2.0601% / 0.02060053
75.2 Old_German
19.2 Keltic
3.8 Volga_Finn
1.0 Eurasian
0.8 SE_Euro

[Feiichy]

ancient components test;

Target: Eurasian
Distance: 0.1223% / 0.12226403
56.1 East_Asian
23.8 Ancestal_North_Eurasian
20.1 Med_Farmer

Target: Old_German
Distance: 0.0481% / 0.04814592
66.9 Corded_Ware
24.0 Baltic_BA
7.8 Med_Farmer
1.1 Indus_Valley
0.2 CHG

Target: Keltic
Distance: 0.0467% / 0.04665157
41.5 Corded_Ware
33.4 Med_Farmer
25.1 Baltic_BA

Target: SE_Euro
Distance: 0.0380% / 0.03796801
59.5 Med_Farmer
18.0 Corded_Ware
14.5 Baltic_BA
6.4 CHG
1.6 Indus_Valley

Target: Proto_Slav
Distance: 0.0098% / 0.00975588
75.3 Baltic_BA
15.1 Med_Farmer
6.7 Corded_Ware
1.9 Indus_Valley
0.9 CHG
0.1 Ancestal_North_Eurasian

Target: Volga_Finn
Distance: 0.0468% / 0.04683300
61.3 Baltic_BA
18.7 Ancestal_North_Eurasian
11.8 East_Asian
7.0 Med_Farmer
1.2 CHG

[Feiichy]

Target: Holden_scaled
Distance: 2.0601% / 0.02060053
75.2 Old_German
19.2 Keltic
3.8 Volga_Finn
1.0 Eurasian
0.8 SE_Euro

It does not work for Brits because there is no insular Celtic reference.

[Feiichy]

Volga_Finn probably have nice asian admix

cca 10% pure east Asian (China Yellow River neolithic)

[mariusz99]

Target: MariuszKorycinski_scaled
Distance: 2.2279% / 0.02227857
61.8 Proto_Slav
27.6 Old_German
8.4 Volga_Finn
2.2 SE_Euro



Target: Aneta_scaled
Distance: 2.5292% / 0.02529165
80.2 Proto_Slav
15.8 Old_German
4.0 EarlyModernBalkan_Roma

[JohnDoe22]

cca 10% pure east Asian (China Yellow River neolithic)

Yes, I cheek it before few minutes.
Well, it make sense.
I don't have any of asian influance, or any sort of non eu, just sometimes I have strugle to figure out how my northern dna is split.

[Dušan]

It would not surprise me if its a part of little turkish ancestry i think turks are 20percent eurasian no offense to anyone or sensibilities but im still surprised Balkan people have zero turkish ancestry not even Muslims?

Avars held these areas, and most likely it is from them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonian_Avars

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/Europe_around_650.jpg/2560px-Europe_around_650.jpg

[Vitez]

Target: Vitez_scaled
Distance: 0.0161% / 0.01612546
56.8 Proto_Slav
32.1 SE_Euro
8.2 Old_German
2.9 Eurasian

[Dušan]

Target: Vitez_scaled
Distance: 0.0161% / 0.01612546
56.8 Proto_Slav
32.1 SE_Euro
8.2 Old_German
2.9 Eurasian

You got even more Eurasian than me.

[Vitez]

You got even more Eurasian than me.

Most of the time it's around 1% but it's really high here.

[Dušan]

Most of the time it's around 1% but it's really high here.

I always get 1-1.5%. :costumed-smiley-067

[Vitez]

I always get 1-1.5%. :costumed-smiley-067

We can start throat singing.

[Peterski]

Target: Peterski_Merged
Distance: 2.0884% / 0.02088361
61.6 Proto_Slav
31.0 Old_German
7.4 SE_Euro

[Feiichy]

examples of Slavic immigrant samples found in early medieval Dalmatian site Velim:
https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velim

Target: EarlySlavs:VEM053
Distance: 0.0254% / 0.02536619
86.9 Proto_Slav
12.8 SE_Euro
0.3 Eurasian

Distance to: EarlySlavs:VEM053
0.02485680 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.02688591 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.02803076 Cossack_Ukrainian_Dnipropetrovsk
0.03063901 Russian_Belgorod
0.03065452 Polish
0.03109605 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.03116701 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.03145448 Russian_Voronezh
0.03182504 Russian_Smolensk
0.03183496 Ukrainian_Rivne


Target: EarlySlavs:VEM028
Distance: 0.0255% / 0.02545430
86.1 Proto_Slav
9.3 Old_German
2.8 SE_Euro
1.8 Eurasian

Distance to: EarlySlavs:VEM028
0.02699925 Polish
0.02722089 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.02793361 Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.02818661 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02825746 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.02836945 Russian_Orel
0.02877683 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.02885232 Russian_Voronezh
0.02894621 Russian_Belgorod
0.02898315 Russian_Smolensk


Target: EarlySlavs:VEM005
Distance: 0.0284% / 0.02840614
85.6 Proto_Slav
11.1 SE_Euro
3.3 Old_German

Distance to: EarlySlavs:VEM005
0.02600629 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.02721332 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.02805584 Cossack_Ukrainian_Dnipropetrovsk
0.03028369 Polish
0.03165092 Russian_Smolensk
0.03362893 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.03438185 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.03473624 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.03482625 Russian_Belgorod
0.03538400 Sorb_Niederlausitz


Target: EarlySlavs:VEM016
Distance: 0.0226% / 0.02259141
82.9 Proto_Slav
11.9 Old_German
3.9 SE_Euro
1.3 Eurasian

Distance to: EarlySlavs:VEM016
0.01970245 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02248882 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.02265139 Polish
0.02311443 Russian_Voronezh
0.02352812 Russian_Belgorod
0.02373239 Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.02482245 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.02567323 Russian_Moscow
0.02583324 Russian_Kursk
0.02607742 Ukrainian_Sumy

[Peterski]

By the way Feiichy what were the reference samples for Celtic-like and Germanic in 2.5 version of your calc?

For Celtic-like it was South German Hallstatt if I remember correctly, right? And what about the Germanic?

[#Oda#]

Distance to: #Oda#_simulated_MYH+LDNA_scaled
0.01664168 Old_German
0.05492838 Keltic
0.06942452 Proto_Slav
0.12977832 SE_Euro
0.14137573 Volga_Finn
0.40193911 Eurasian

Distance to: #Oda#_Davidski_scaled
0.02474482 Old_German
0.05761021 Keltic
0.07141495 Proto_Slav
0.13018736 SE_Euro
0.14153203 Volga_Finn
0.40284185 Eurasian

Target: #Oda#_simulated_MYH+LDNA_scaled
Distance: 1.0172% / 0.01017235
75.8 Old_German
18.6 Keltic
5.6 Proto_Slav

Target: #Oda#_Davidski_scaled
Distance: 2.0716% / 0.02071610
74.6 Old_German
19.2 Keltic
6.0 Proto_Slav
0.2 Volga_Finn

[17571imre]

Target: MH_scaled
Distance: 1.6653% / 0.01665262
34.2 Proto_Slav
29.4 SE_Euro
17.6 Keltic
14.8 Old_German
3.0 Volga_Finn
1.0 Eurasian

Thankyou! Really good results :)

[MandM]

Target: MandM
Distance: 2.5065% / 0.02506528
59.9 SE_Euro
35.2 Proto_Slav
3.2 Volga_Finn
1.7 Eurasian

[Feiichy]

By the way Feiichy what were the reference samples for Celtic-like and Germanic in 2.5 version of your calc?

For Celtic-like it was South German Hallstatt if I remember correctly, right? And what about the Germanic?

Well it's stated on thread for v2.5 (sample labels). I honestly couldn't find German Keltic samples, otherwise I'd include them here, but it doesn't make difference I guess, since they are also central French like those I selected.

[JohnDoe22]

Well it's stated on thread for v2.5 (sample labels). I honestly couldn't find German Keltic samples, otherwise I'd include them here, but it doesn't make difference I guess, since they are also central French like those I selected.

Maybe this one, but it's probably the similar.

CHE_IA,0.125205,0.153345,0.050534,-0.003876,0.049548,-0.005578,0.0047,-0.002077,0.014726,0.033896,0.001786,0.016335,-0.016353,-0.008945,0.001764,-0.001591,0.009518,0.001647,0.002514,-0.006128,0.005241,0.005688,-0.012078,-0.004338,0.000958

[gixajo]

yes, I have read is not for people of my ancestry.

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 3.1069% / 0.03106891
88.0 Keltic
12.0 SE_Euro

So I have added 2 Iberian reference.


Iberian:Spain_IA,0.1258262,0.1492827,0.0583851,0.0 049625,0.0602349,-0.0044623,-0.0022645,0.0031048,0.0336535,0.0464537,-0.0050636,0.0132018,-0.0238533,-0.0138374,0.0089698,0.0056533,0.006626,0.0005185,0 .0040911,-0.0026263,0.0052294,-0.0004945,-0.0051203,-0.0136163,-0.0022753
Celtiberian:Spain_IA_Celt,0.1252055,0.1477595,0.06 6939,0.0121125,0.0604725,0.0046015,-0.002585,0.0040385,0.026179,0.033896,-0.0002435,0.0095165,-0.0165015,-0.0088075,0.009772,-0.0012595,-0.0099745,-0.000317,0.002514,-0.0046275,0.008485,0.0037715,-0.006347,-0.0103625,-0.0072445


Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 2.2025% / 0.02202541
37.4 Iberian
25.2 Celtiberian
23.6 SE_Euro
13.4 Old_German
0.4 Eurasian

[Feiichy]

yes, I have read is not for people of my ancestry.

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 3.1069% / 0.03106891
88.0 Keltic
12.0 SE_Euro

So I have added 2 Iberian reference.


Iberian:Spain_IA,0.1258262,0.1492827,0.0583851,0.0 049625,0.0602349,-0.0044623,-0.0022645,0.0031048,0.0336535,0.0464537,-0.0050636,0.0132018,-0.0238533,-0.0138374,0.0089698,0.0056533,0.006626,0.0005185,0 .0040911,-0.0026263,0.0052294,-0.0004945,-0.0051203,-0.0136163,-0.0022753
Celtiberian:Spain_IA_Celt,0.1252055,0.1477595,0.06 6939,0.0121125,0.0604725,0.0046015,-0.002585,0.0040385,0.026179,0.033896,-0.0002435,0.0095165,-0.0165015,-0.0088075,0.009772,-0.0012595,-0.0099745,-0.000317,0.002514,-0.0046275,0.008485,0.0037715,-0.006347,-0.0103625,-0.0072445


Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 2.2025% / 0.02202541
37.4 Iberian
25.2 Celtiberian
23.6 SE_Euro
13.4 Old_German
0.4 Eurasian

very nice, second model looks good with SE Euro being a Roman proxy and old German Visigoth and Suebian like.

[celticdragongod]

Distance to: CDG_scaled
0.02388757 Old_German
0.05821391 Keltic
0.07901435 Proto_Slav
0.13022852 SE_Euro
0.14544685 Volga_Finn
0.40082925 Eurasian

Target: CDG_scaled
Distance: 0.0207% / 0.02069635
82.0 Old_German
18.0 Keltic

Distance to: CDG_scaled
0.02069635 82.00% Old_German + 18.00% Keltic
0.02142812 92.40% Old_German + 7.60% SE_Euro
0.04683647 80.00% Keltic + 20.00% Volga_Finn
0.04774341 65.40% Keltic + 34.60% Proto_Slav
0.05734651 2.40% Eurasian + 97.60% Keltic
0.06429818 28.80% SE_Euro + 71.20% Proto_Slav
0.07869060 1.80% Eurasian + 98.20% Proto_Slav
0.07882698 54.20% SE_Euro + 45.80% Volga_Finn
0.12443969 9.20% Eurasian + 90.80% SE_Euro

[ScandinavianCelt]

Try adding all the Early Slav samples. Interesting. This is what I get when I do:

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 1.8806% / 0.01880647
76.6 Old_German
9.2 Bulgaria_Early_Slav2_Rhyovets
4.8 Volga_Finn
3.6 Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav6
3.0 Serbia_Early_Slav5
2.6 Czech_Early_Slav1
0.2 Croatia_Early_Slav2

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 1.9069% / 0.01906879 | ADC: 0.25x RC
74.6 Old_German
15.6 Serbia_Early_Slav1
5.8 Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav6
2.4 Czech_Early_Slav1
1.6 Czech_Early_Slav2

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 1.9118% / 0.01911757 | ADC: 0.5x RC
75.8 Old_German
14.8 Serbia_Early_Slav1
9.4 Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav6

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 1.9538% / 0.01953834 | ADC: 1x RC
73.8 Old_German
26.2 Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav6

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 2.5253% / 0.02525255 | ADC: 2x RC
100.0 Old_German


I used these Early Slavs:


Serbia_Early_Slav1:I15543,0.11430214,0.11237552,0. 04055508,0.01423956,0.02297366,-0.0009631,0.0018817,0.00458788,0.00499836,0.002414 66,0.00230998,0.00088484,0.00232546,-0.00192192,-0.00452086,-0.00036568,0.00638498,-0.00126722,0.00027292,0.00391778,-0.00344576,-0.00034358,0.00272042,-0.001541,-0.00052133
Serbia_Early_Slav2:I15542,0.12117406,0.1332375,0.0 4605322,0.01916046,0.03185086,0.00451918,0.0052631 6,0.00687766,0.00495596,0.00344104,-0.00132954,-0.00158334,0.00082046,0.01113296,-0.01075856,0.00134076,0.01038984,0.00062736,0.0034 1032,-0.00210648,-0.0003829,-0.00174752,0.00018946,-0.00565124,-0.00045688
Serbia_Early_Slav3:I15541,0.11374026,0.10369286,0. 02664796,0.00517454,0.01419626,-0.00087592,0.00305038,0.00246738,-0.00244176,0.00183964,-0.00037408,0.00203848,-0.00029216,-0.00171432,-0.0050759,-7.95E-05,0.00554678,-0.00093512,0.00100062,0.00145022,-0.00326722,0.0009585,0.00239464,0.0011264,-0.00127868
Serbia_Early_Slav4:I15540,0.12366828,0.13459612,0. 03368042,0.0184637,0.02918688,0.00358022,0.0039396 6,0.00240164,-0.00053834,-0.00306554,-0.00166528,0.00029076,0.0013701,0.00576024,-0.0028215,0.00146246,0.0101972,-0.00075044,0.00420726,0.00499072,-0.0027077,-0.003,-0.00137206,0.00015642,-0.00011545
Serbia_Early_Slav5:I15538,0.12440694,0.14029,0.046 64542,0.01249016,0.0471019,0.00354754,0.00038884,0 .00099864,0.01719086,0.02481438,-0.00700846,0.01097662,-0.01664826,-0.01224348,0.00866472,-0.00482778,-0.00567356,0.0001112,0.00028062,-0.00284596,0.0043927,0.0021069,-0.00830368,0.0008581,-0.00138691
Serbia_Early_Slav6:I15537,0.1281503,0.12822914,0.0 5082314,0.03468948,0.03652602,0.00773978,0.0065063 2,0.00560402,0.00147872,-0.00550624,-0.00117334,-0.00171506,0.00450784,0.00571408,-0.00569812,0.00495906,0.0115155,-0.00055928,0.00474684,0.00401874,-0.00482436,-0.00398404,0.00019646,0.00029938,-3.097E-05
Croatia_Early_Slav1:I26747,0.13573546,0.12697274,0 .06707506,0.06121106,0.04049474,0.02705602,0.00691 812,0.01038938,0.00258468,-0.01460426,-0.00757122,-0.00044044,0.0096861,0.009071,0.00214822,0.0040725 ,-0.00271564,1.294E-05,0.0012764,0.00171702,0.00258602,0.00028244,0.00 460492,0.00359334,-0.00138301
Croatia_Early_Slav2:I26746,0.10625152,0.1384424,-0.02655832,-0.0494794,-0.00153136,-0.01676486,0.0016342,-0.00249866,-0.00785612,0.01572138,-0.00086946,0.00784068,-0.00792982,0.00228068,-0.00216726,-0.00547862,0.00111622,-0.00214452,0.00027808,-0.00304208,0.00044278,0.0002966,-0.0043077,-0.0027105,-0.00294843
Croatia_Early_Slav3:I26745,0.1227036,0.13275152,0. 04347054,0.0284486,0.03056716,0.01353728,0.0055232 6,0.00746488,0.00381344,-0.00699784,-0.00587068,-0.00410742,0.01197758,0.01682316,-0.00855412,0.00546516,0.00164772,-0.00020512,0.00475032,0.00125218,-0.00010352,-0.00104568,0.0046665,-0.00177942,-0.00188857
Czech_Early_Slav1:RISE569,0.12862,0.129988,0.06825 9,0.046835,0.02739,0.013387,0.007285,0.014076,-0.001841,-0.018406,-0.000812,-0.004346,0.003717,0.007156,-0.010993,-0.003182,0.011604,-0.002027,-0.002388,-0.004752,0.005615,0.000618,0.001725,-0.000964,-0.006706
Czech_Early_Slav2:I4137,0.12696446,0.11725896,0.05 066394,0.04736368,0.02869688,0.01597034,0.01054376 ,0.00902142,-0.0081059,-0.01889446,-0.0001909,-0.00364982,0.0071502,0.0078594,-0.002898,0.00732506,0.01579324,-0.0018263,-0.00292312,0.00599632,-0.00441994,-0.00127676,0.0001605,0.00166848,0.00026186
Czech,0.13116,0.131862,0.060484,0.047258,0.038658, 0.018922,0.006345,0.008662,0.004673,-0.008887,-0.001686,-0.003897,0.006049,0.011772,0.001743,0.000999,-0.000642,-0.000146,0.003568,0.002896,-0.001267,-0.000162,0.006513,0.00393,0.001594
Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav1:R3478,0.1211627,0.1 2534764,0.04292544,0.02622456,0.0253436,0.00881372 ,0.00730354,0.00713908,-0.0043165,-0.00639118,-0.002949,-0.00076842,0.00032608,0.01070206,-0.00605846,0.0008932,0.00712782,0.00060648,0.00172 342,-0.00080628,0.0003735,-0.00090066,0.0025615,-0.00345826,0.00024548
Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav2:R3481,0.1077606,0.1 4593692,-0.00097522,-0.03647392,0.0187871,-0.0125338,0.00029162,-0.00146742,0.00711966,0.02737908,-0.00441702,0.0084689,-0.01279276,-0.0017569,0.0001073,-0.00272142,-0.00165802,-0.00284066,-0.00037044,-0.0023089,0.0026954,0.00419406,-0.00703794,-0.005924,8.334E-05
Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav7:R9920,0.12426646,0. 12771104,0.0439917,0.0289133,0.0293585,0.0160493,0 .00623462,0.00775702,0.00068186,-0.00463998,-0.00650186,0.00159994,0.00141712,0.01026992,-8.098E-05,-0.00213544,-0.00126278,-0.00081502,0.00224926,0.00143726,0.0004798,-0.00189904,0.00525168,-0.00290492,-0.00303046
Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav6:R9919,0.1259626,0.1 27312,0.03870724,0.02463612,0.02918194,0.00852,0.0 0667564,0.0060633,-0.0014388,-0.0006882,-0.00186468,0.0015744,0.00019414,0.00295354,-0.00355618,0.00541266,0.01120016,-0.00072088,-0.00102966,0.00137392,-0.0027718,-0.0003022,-0.0005199,0.00011912,0.00022185
Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav5:R9918,0.12667568,0. 13011416,0.04394006,0.02390512,0.03380352,0.010386 52,0.00454658,0.00727996,0.004674,0.00278216,-0.00471314,0.00099798,0.0008752,0.01002874,-0.006871,0.00195704,0.00485912,-0.00095316,0.00311834,-0.00112402,-0.0017034,-0.0010026,0.00232438,-0.00117144,-0.00168307
Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav4:R3482,0.12773434,0. 1270901,0.04754074,0.04024838,0.0276942,0.02095188 ,0.00781908,0.007583,-0.00561176,-0.01381946,-0.00631908,-0.0013182,0.00686838,0.01515754,-0.00181562,0.00169212,-7.57E-05,0.0006374,0.00338324,0.00337418,0.00113388,-0.00194634,0.00711292,-0.00038084,-0.00072319
Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav3:R3481,0.1077606,0.1 4593692,-0.00097522,-0.03647392,0.0187871,-0.0125338,0.00029162,-0.00146742,0.00711966,0.02737908,-0.00441702,0.0084689,-0.01279276,-0.0017569,0.0001073,-0.00272142,-0.00165802,-0.00284066,-0.00037044,-0.0023089,0.0026954,0.00419406,-0.00703794,-0.005924,8.334E-05
Bulgaria_Early_Slav1_Rhyovets:I10548,0.11762112,0. 12709892,0.02985808,0.01195098,0.02028084,0.005915 28,0.00453266,0.003206,-0.00028834,-0.0016063,-0.00264218,-0.00139628,0.00188416,0.01092556,-0.0107091,0.00172542,0.00326092,0.00108772,0.00132 868,-0.000199,-0.00184666,-0.0026936,0.00326852,-0.00101594,-0.00300786
Bulgaria_Early_Slav2_Rhyovets:I17980,0.11379182,0. 13468012,-0.0021502,-0.01922336,0.00737966,-0.00571796,0.00111136,-0.00203344,-0.00472682,0.00986284,-0.00105734,0.00324988,-0.00330868,0.00587576,-0.00958736,0.0004417,0.00527326,-0.00093432,0.00299612,-0.00202948,-0.00351606,-0.00165274,0.00085418,-0.00105932,-0.00057914


If I had a more Insular sample in this calc my 2-way split can go 80% Insular, 20% Belgorod.

[Vid Flumina]

Target: VF_scaled
Distance: 3.4109% / 0.03410865
43.4 SE_Euro
33.2 Old_German
22.0 Keltic
1.4 Eurasian



I know you are austrian but austrians are germans and i know it but its still interesting to me how parts of Austria are few german i wonder what south tyrolans score

There you go (don't ask me where i got the coords though) :


Target: Eisacktal-Lower_G25
Distance: 0.8461% / 0.00846126
39.0 Old_German
32.6 SE_Euro
21.4 Keltic
3.6 Volga_Finn
3.0 Proto_Slav
0.4 Eurasian

[hazmatnik]

Target: Nikola_scaled
Distance: 3.2389% / 0.03238894
50.0 Proto_Slav
49.0 SE_Euro
1.0 Eurasian

[Feiichy]

Try adding all the Early Slav samples. Interesting. This is what I get when I do:

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 1.8806% / 0.01880647
76.6 Old_German
9.2 Bulgaria_Early_Slav2_Rhyovets
4.8 Volga_Finn
3.6 Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav6
3.0 Serbia_Early_Slav5
2.6 Czech_Early_Slav1
0.2 Croatia_Early_Slav2

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 1.9069% / 0.01906879 | ADC: 0.25x RC
74.6 Old_German
15.6 Serbia_Early_Slav1
5.8 Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav6
2.4 Czech_Early_Slav1
1.6 Czech_Early_Slav2

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 1.9118% / 0.01911757 | ADC: 0.5x RC
75.8 Old_German
14.8 Serbia_Early_Slav1
9.4 Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav6

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 1.9538% / 0.01953834 | ADC: 1x RC
73.8 Old_German
26.2 Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav6

Target: SC_Ave_IllustrativeDNA
Distance: 2.5253% / 0.02525255 | ADC: 2x RC
100.0 Old_German


I used these Early Slavs:


Serbia_Early_Slav1:I15543,0.11430214,0.11237552,0. 04055508,0.01423956,0.02297366,-0.0009631,0.0018817,0.00458788,0.00499836,0.002414 66,0.00230998,0.00088484,0.00232546,-0.00192192,-0.00452086,-0.00036568,0.00638498,-0.00126722,0.00027292,0.00391778,-0.00344576,-0.00034358,0.00272042,-0.001541,-0.00052133
Serbia_Early_Slav2:I15542,0.12117406,0.1332375,0.0 4605322,0.01916046,0.03185086,0.00451918,0.0052631 6,0.00687766,0.00495596,0.00344104,-0.00132954,-0.00158334,0.00082046,0.01113296,-0.01075856,0.00134076,0.01038984,0.00062736,0.0034 1032,-0.00210648,-0.0003829,-0.00174752,0.00018946,-0.00565124,-0.00045688
Serbia_Early_Slav3:I15541,0.11374026,0.10369286,0. 02664796,0.00517454,0.01419626,-0.00087592,0.00305038,0.00246738,-0.00244176,0.00183964,-0.00037408,0.00203848,-0.00029216,-0.00171432,-0.0050759,-7.95E-05,0.00554678,-0.00093512,0.00100062,0.00145022,-0.00326722,0.0009585,0.00239464,0.0011264,-0.00127868
Serbia_Early_Slav4:I15540,0.12366828,0.13459612,0. 03368042,0.0184637,0.02918688,0.00358022,0.0039396 6,0.00240164,-0.00053834,-0.00306554,-0.00166528,0.00029076,0.0013701,0.00576024,-0.0028215,0.00146246,0.0101972,-0.00075044,0.00420726,0.00499072,-0.0027077,-0.003,-0.00137206,0.00015642,-0.00011545
Serbia_Early_Slav5:I15538,0.12440694,0.14029,0.046 64542,0.01249016,0.0471019,0.00354754,0.00038884,0 .00099864,0.01719086,0.02481438,-0.00700846,0.01097662,-0.01664826,-0.01224348,0.00866472,-0.00482778,-0.00567356,0.0001112,0.00028062,-0.00284596,0.0043927,0.0021069,-0.00830368,0.0008581,-0.00138691
Serbia_Early_Slav6:I15537,0.1281503,0.12822914,0.0 5082314,0.03468948,0.03652602,0.00773978,0.0065063 2,0.00560402,0.00147872,-0.00550624,-0.00117334,-0.00171506,0.00450784,0.00571408,-0.00569812,0.00495906,0.0115155,-0.00055928,0.00474684,0.00401874,-0.00482436,-0.00398404,0.00019646,0.00029938,-3.097E-05
Croatia_Early_Slav1:I26747,0.13573546,0.12697274,0 .06707506,0.06121106,0.04049474,0.02705602,0.00691 812,0.01038938,0.00258468,-0.01460426,-0.00757122,-0.00044044,0.0096861,0.009071,0.00214822,0.0040725 ,-0.00271564,1.294E-05,0.0012764,0.00171702,0.00258602,0.00028244,0.00 460492,0.00359334,-0.00138301
Croatia_Early_Slav2:I26746,0.10625152,0.1384424,-0.02655832,-0.0494794,-0.00153136,-0.01676486,0.0016342,-0.00249866,-0.00785612,0.01572138,-0.00086946,0.00784068,-0.00792982,0.00228068,-0.00216726,-0.00547862,0.00111622,-0.00214452,0.00027808,-0.00304208,0.00044278,0.0002966,-0.0043077,-0.0027105,-0.00294843
Croatia_Early_Slav3:I26745,0.1227036,0.13275152,0. 04347054,0.0284486,0.03056716,0.01353728,0.0055232 6,0.00746488,0.00381344,-0.00699784,-0.00587068,-0.00410742,0.01197758,0.01682316,-0.00855412,0.00546516,0.00164772,-0.00020512,0.00475032,0.00125218,-0.00010352,-0.00104568,0.0046665,-0.00177942,-0.00188857
Czech_Early_Slav1:RISE569,0.12862,0.129988,0.06825 9,0.046835,0.02739,0.013387,0.007285,0.014076,-0.001841,-0.018406,-0.000812,-0.004346,0.003717,0.007156,-0.010993,-0.003182,0.011604,-0.002027,-0.002388,-0.004752,0.005615,0.000618,0.001725,-0.000964,-0.006706
Czech_Early_Slav2:I4137,0.12696446,0.11725896,0.05 066394,0.04736368,0.02869688,0.01597034,0.01054376 ,0.00902142,-0.0081059,-0.01889446,-0.0001909,-0.00364982,0.0071502,0.0078594,-0.002898,0.00732506,0.01579324,-0.0018263,-0.00292312,0.00599632,-0.00441994,-0.00127676,0.0001605,0.00166848,0.00026186
Czech,0.13116,0.131862,0.060484,0.047258,0.038658, 0.018922,0.006345,0.008662,0.004673,-0.008887,-0.001686,-0.003897,0.006049,0.011772,0.001743,0.000999,-0.000642,-0.000146,0.003568,0.002896,-0.001267,-0.000162,0.006513,0.00393,0.001594
Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav1:R3478,0.1211627,0.1 2534764,0.04292544,0.02622456,0.0253436,0.00881372 ,0.00730354,0.00713908,-0.0043165,-0.00639118,-0.002949,-0.00076842,0.00032608,0.01070206,-0.00605846,0.0008932,0.00712782,0.00060648,0.00172 342,-0.00080628,0.0003735,-0.00090066,0.0025615,-0.00345826,0.00024548
Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav2:R3481,0.1077606,0.1 4593692,-0.00097522,-0.03647392,0.0187871,-0.0125338,0.00029162,-0.00146742,0.00711966,0.02737908,-0.00441702,0.0084689,-0.01279276,-0.0017569,0.0001073,-0.00272142,-0.00165802,-0.00284066,-0.00037044,-0.0023089,0.0026954,0.00419406,-0.00703794,-0.005924,8.334E-05
Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav7:R9920,0.12426646,0. 12771104,0.0439917,0.0289133,0.0293585,0.0160493,0 .00623462,0.00775702,0.00068186,-0.00463998,-0.00650186,0.00159994,0.00141712,0.01026992,-8.098E-05,-0.00213544,-0.00126278,-0.00081502,0.00224926,0.00143726,0.0004798,-0.00189904,0.00525168,-0.00290492,-0.00303046
Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav6:R9919,0.1259626,0.1 27312,0.03870724,0.02463612,0.02918194,0.00852,0.0 0667564,0.0060633,-0.0014388,-0.0006882,-0.00186468,0.0015744,0.00019414,0.00295354,-0.00355618,0.00541266,0.01120016,-0.00072088,-0.00102966,0.00137392,-0.0027718,-0.0003022,-0.0005199,0.00011912,0.00022185
Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav5:R9918,0.12667568,0. 13011416,0.04394006,0.02390512,0.03380352,0.010386 52,0.00454658,0.00727996,0.004674,0.00278216,-0.00471314,0.00099798,0.0008752,0.01002874,-0.006871,0.00195704,0.00485912,-0.00095316,0.00311834,-0.00112402,-0.0017034,-0.0010026,0.00232438,-0.00117144,-0.00168307
Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav4:R3482,0.12773434,0. 1270901,0.04754074,0.04024838,0.0276942,0.02095188 ,0.00781908,0.007583,-0.00561176,-0.01381946,-0.00631908,-0.0013182,0.00686838,0.01515754,-0.00181562,0.00169212,-7.57E-05,0.0006374,0.00338324,0.00337418,0.00113388,-0.00194634,0.00711292,-0.00038084,-0.00072319
Montenegrin_Doclea_Early_Slav3:R3481,0.1077606,0.1 4593692,-0.00097522,-0.03647392,0.0187871,-0.0125338,0.00029162,-0.00146742,0.00711966,0.02737908,-0.00441702,0.0084689,-0.01279276,-0.0017569,0.0001073,-0.00272142,-0.00165802,-0.00284066,-0.00037044,-0.0023089,0.0026954,0.00419406,-0.00703794,-0.005924,8.334E-05
Bulgaria_Early_Slav1_Rhyovets:I10548,0.11762112,0. 12709892,0.02985808,0.01195098,0.02028084,0.005915 28,0.00453266,0.003206,-0.00028834,-0.0016063,-0.00264218,-0.00139628,0.00188416,0.01092556,-0.0107091,0.00172542,0.00326092,0.00108772,0.00132 868,-0.000199,-0.00184666,-0.0026936,0.00326852,-0.00101594,-0.00300786
Bulgaria_Early_Slav2_Rhyovets:I17980,0.11379182,0. 13468012,-0.0021502,-0.01922336,0.00737966,-0.00571796,0.00111136,-0.00203344,-0.00472682,0.00986284,-0.00105734,0.00324988,-0.00330868,0.00587576,-0.00958736,0.0004417,0.00527326,-0.00093432,0.00299612,-0.00202948,-0.00351606,-0.00165274,0.00085418,-0.00105932,-0.00057914


If I had a more Insular sample in this calc my 2-way split can go 80% Insular, 20% Belgorod.

Why would I? These samples are mixed. I literally created proto Slavic genetic profile following instructions from the paper.

[Wend-Kruzek]

Distance to: Kruzek_scaled
0.04176684 Proto_Slav
0.05019952 Old_German
0.06664750 Keltic
0.12710047 Volga_Finn
0.13201861 SE_Euro
0.39419525 Eurasian

Target: Kruzek_scaled
Distance: 2.1505% / 0.02150473
56.0 Proto_Slav
21.0 Old_German
14.4 Keltic
6.6 SE_Euro
1.0 Eurasian
1.0 Volga_Finn


Target: Kruzek_scaled
Distance: 2.1502% / 0.02150216 | ADC: 0.25x RC
57.0 Proto_Slav
21.6 Old_German
13.6 Keltic
6.6 SE_Euro
1.2 Eurasian

Target: Kruzek_scaled
Distance: 2.2498% / 0.02249816 | ADC: 0.5x RC
56.6 Proto_Slav
26.0 Keltic
17.4 Old_German



OK :thumb001:

[Wend-Kruzek]

Still high slavic and even balkan considering how the austrians (maybe not anymore) considered Balkan as very foreign its still interesting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carantania
You should also take a look at this. We also have Bavaria Slavica. And also the Principality of Koceľ.

[Rhegion]

Target: Me
Distance: 4.5385% / 0.04538520
96.8 SE_Euro
3.2 Eurasian

[RyoHazuki]

Target: Ryo_scaled
Distance: 3.5789% / 0.03578899
67.8 Old_German
29.0 Keltic
2.8 SE_Euro
0.4 Eurasian

Target: G25K13SimRyoHazuki
Distance: 1.2845% / 0.01284467
53.6 Old_German
46.4 Keltic

[JerryS.]

Target: JerryS_scaled
Distance: 1.6209% / 0.01620880
80.0 Old_German
16.2 SE_Euro
3.8 Keltic

[Live The Magic]

Target: LiveTheMagic_scaled
Distance: 2.2669% / 0.02266896
74.0 Proto_Slav
16.0 Old_German
8.0 Keltic
2.0 Volga_Finn

ADC 0.25 doesn't change almost anything for me:

Target: LiveTheMagic_scaled
Distance: 2.2080% / 0.02208043 | ADC: 0.25x RC
75.4 Proto_Slav
16.4 Old_German
6.8 Keltic
1.4 Eurasian

[Feiichy]

Target: LiveTheMagic_scaled
Distance: 2.2669% / 0.02266896
74.0 Proto_Slav
16.0 Old_German
8.0 Keltic
2.0 Volga_Finn

ADC 0.25 doesn't change almost anything for me:

Target: LiveTheMagic_scaled
Distance: 2.2080% / 0.02208043 | ADC: 0.25x RC
75.4 Proto_Slav
16.4 Old_German
6.8 Keltic
1.4 Eurasian

you're a Slovak?

actually there is no Balkan, so rather a Polak?

[Kenshiro]

Target: Kenshiro_Scaled
Distance: 2.6364% / 0.02636424
84.0 SE_Euro
11.4 Proto_Slav
4.6 Eurasian
Not very bad bad fit

[Feiichy]

Target: Kenshiro_Scaled
Distance: 2.6364% / 0.02636424
84.0 SE_Euro
11.4 Proto_Slav
4.6 Eurasian
Not very bad bad fit

It's not for you. I don't get how people ignore my instruction. Results for people who are not from regions I specified are nonsense.

[Feiichy]

It won't work for Balts and Finns as well.

[Kenshiro]

It's not for you. I don't get how people ignore my instruction. Results for people who are not from regions I specified are nonsense.

Yeah I know, sorry, i was only pretty curious ahah

[PaulieVanZant]

Target: Paulie_Scaled
Distance: 1.5166% / 0.01516612
75.6 Old_German
16.6 Keltic
7.8 Proto_Slav

Distance to: Paulie_Scaled
0.01966879 Old_German
0.05744041 Keltic
0.06873441 Proto_Slav
0.13096093 SE_Euro
0.13989440 Volga_Finn
0.40081590 Eurasian


Target: PaulieChai
Distance: 1.1679% / 0.01167863
39.2 Old_German
36.0 Proto_Slav
24.2 Keltic
0.6 Volga_Finn

Distance to: PaulieChai
0.03338565 Old_German
0.04918204 Proto_Slav
0.05744331 Keltic
0.12972213 SE_Euro
0.13250632 Volga_Finn
0.39810755 Eurasian

[Feiichy]

Target: Paulie_Scaled
Distance: 1.5166% / 0.01516612
75.6 Old_German
16.6 Keltic
7.8 Proto_Slav

Distance to: Paulie_Scaled
0.01966879 Old_German
0.05744041 Keltic
0.06873441 Proto_Slav
0.13096093 SE_Euro
0.13989440 Volga_Finn
0.40081590 Eurasian


Target: PaulieChai
Distance: 1.1679% / 0.01167863
39.2 Old_German
36.0 Proto_Slav
24.2 Keltic
0.6 Volga_Finn

Distance to: PaulieChai
0.03338565 Old_German
0.04918204 Proto_Slav
0.05744331 Keltic
0.12972213 SE_Euro
0.13250632 Volga_Finn
0.39810755 Eurasian

Nice results Paulie. I wonder what VC scores.

[Live The Magic]

you're a Slovak?

actually there is no Balkan, so rather a Polak?

White Croat!

On a serious note, my parents are from Argentina, but my grandparents are all from western and central Poland. My dads side is actually very interesting. Because his dad claimed they came from Croatia in late 18th and that they're were Orthodox Croats (is that even a thing??), but since there was no Orthodox church in western Poland they became Catholics, but I did Y-DNA test and all people in my I-PH908 branch are from Serbia? :confused:

I don't know what to think, I'm confused.

[JerryS.]

It's not for you. I don't get how people ignore my instruction. Results for people who are not from regions I specified are nonsense.

We do it for fun or curiosity to see how it fleshes out with our ancestry.

[rothaer]

Target: #Oda#_Davidski_scaled
Distance: 2.0716% / 0.02071610
74.6 Old_German
19.2 Keltic
6.0 Proto_Slav
0.2 Volga_Finn

Target: rothaer_scaled
Distance: 1.5380% / 0.01537971
43.8 Old_German
34.6 Proto_Slav
18.2 Keltic
3.4 Volga_Finn

Target: rothaer_wife2_scaled
Distance: 1.7816% / 0.01781650
75.8 Old_German
23.0 Proto_Slav
1.2 Volga_Finn

[rothaer]

White Croat!

On a serious note, my parents are from Argentina, but my grandparents are all from western and central Poland. My dads side is actually very interesting. Because his dad claimed they came from Croatia in late 18th and that they're were Orthodox Croats (is that even a thing??), but since there was no Orthodox church in western Poland they became Catholics, but I did Y-DNA test and all people in my I-PH908 branch are from Serbia? :confused:

I don't know what to think, I'm confused.

An odd story. However, an Orthodox Serbocroatian speaker usually is a Serb. So that would fit well.

Isn't then even your surname mediated by the said individual?

[Feiichy]

White Croat!

On a serious note, my parents are from Argentina, but my grandparents are all from western and central Poland. My dads side is actually very interesting. Because his dad claimed they came from Croatia in late 18th and that they're were Orthodox Croats (is that even a thing??), but since there was no Orthodox church in western Poland they became Catholics, but I did Y-DNA test and all people in my I-PH908 branch are from Serbia? :confused:

I don't know what to think, I'm confused.

They could have been ethnic Serbs from Croatia with Croatian identity, it was not rare back than. Or Croatian converts to orthodoxy, but I find that less likely (it was more common in Bosnia). Interesting family history btw. I have lot of relatives in Chile and Argentina as well.

[rothaer]

They could have been ethnic Serbs from Croatia with Croatian identity, it was not rare back than. Or Croatian converts to orthodoxy, but I find that less likely (it was more common in Bosnia). Interesting family history btw. I have lot of relatives in Chile and Argentina as well.

It's even less likely that a convert by chance shows up in a YDNA subclade surrounded by Serbs.

[Feiichy]

Funny results from my tiny island which shows how Dalmatian Islands are unique microcosmos:

fully native Islander and my distant relative from main village generations back:

Target: Main_Village
Distance: 0.0217% / 0.02168493

49.0 Proto_Slav
26.6 Keltic
18.2 SE_Euro
4.4 Old_German
1.8 Eurasian

quite different results to another distant relative of mine (Rest in Peace! - lady passed away recently :( ), who is also fully native Islander, but from separated sub village. Why it matters? Because in that sub-village people came 300 years ago from nearby island. They are still considered somewhat foreign (lol) and people from main village rarely intermarried with them (it was frowned upon).

Target: Sub_Village
Distance: 0.0263% / 0.02627921

68.6 Proto_Slav
31.4 SE_Euro

as shown, sub village sample is pretty different from main village one.

[Feiichy]

It's even less likely that a convert by chance shows up in a YDNA subclade surrounded by Serbs.

Yes, but Serbs are extremely overtested (and have own DNA project), Croats much less. If we knew the surname it would be more clear.

[Feiichy]

sharing some samples from own collection:

rural Šokac from eastern Slavonia with Czech grandfather:

Target: M_scaled
Distance: 0.0187% / 0.01868427

64.3 Proto_Slav
21.7 SE_Euro
11.1 Old_German
2.9 Keltic

Far away open sea island in our archipelago, this lady married into my Island:

Target: Ž_scaled
Distance: 0.0236% / 0.02359219
51.4 Proto_Slav
35.6 SE_Euro
9.2 Old_German
3.3 Keltic
0.5 Eurasian

my mother ex boyfriend (Rest in Peace!) from western Croatia, but Kajkavian speaker (Kajkavians core region is NW Croatia, but those like him represent Kajkavian colonisation west into Gorski Kotar (wooded mountain area):

Target: N_scaled
Distance: 0.0203% / 0.02034693
44.1 Proto_Slav
26.1 Old_German
26.1 SE_Euro
3.3 Volga_Finn
0.4 Eurasian

another guy I know, a Čakavian 3/4 from northern Adriaric + 1/4 from Dalmatian island of Murter:

Target: R_scaled
Distance: 0.0315% / 0.03153667
66.2 Proto_Slav
33.8 SE_Euro

[Mortimer]

They could have been ethnic Serbs from Croatia with Croatian identity, it was not rare back than. Or Croatian converts to orthodoxy, but I find that less likely (it was more common in Bosnia). Interesting family history btw. I have lot of relatives in Chile and Argentina as well.

The ustasha created a croatian-orthodox church is that true and what do you think of it?

[Feiichy]

The ustasha created a croatian-orthodox church is that true and what do you think of it?

Great idea, it should exist today as well since orthodox churches are national. Poland, a Catholic nation, has own Orthodox church: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Orthodox_Church

[ScandinavianCelt]

DNAGenics looks more refined

https://i.postimg.cc/66SNGQ37/Screenshot-20250912-075622-746.png (https://postimg.cc/14pdksDP)

[Live The Magic]

Yes, but Serbs are extremely overtested (and have own DNA project), Croats much less. If we knew the surname it would be more clear.

Its Jurkiewicz, but my grandpa said it was a bit Polonized when his ancestor moved to Poland. My closest Y-DNA match is a person from Croatia with similar surname, but when I reached out to him and asked him about our common Croatian origins he claimed that they are all Serbs.

[Feiichy]

Its Jurkiewicz, but my grandpa said it was a bit Polonized when his ancestor moved to Poland. My closest Y-DNA match is a person from Croatia with similar surname, but when I reached out to him and asked him about our common Croatian origins he claimed that they are all Serbs.

it could be Jurković, which is Croatian surname. Comes from name Juraj/George, Serbs use rather Đorđe so surname would be Đorđević. But maybe it's another surname, who knows?

btw I found some Serbs with surname Jurković

https://serbiantimes.info/najbogatija-srpska-porodica-u-hrvatskoj-pero-i-radmila-jurkovic-imaju-9-sinova-i-7-cerki-ni-od-koga-ne-traze-pomoc-video/

I would assume their ancestors converted to orthodoxy because Juraj is Croatian version of George.

[Live The Magic]

it could be Jurković, which is Croatian surname. Comes from name Juraj/George, Serbs use rather Đorđe so surname would be Đorđević. But maybe it's another surname, who knows?

btw I found some Serbs with surname Jurković

https://serbiantimes.info/najbogatija-srpska-porodica-u-hrvatskoj-pero-i-radmila-jurkovic-imaju-9-sinova-i-7-cerki-ni-od-koga-ne-traze-pomoc-video/

I would assume their ancestors converted to orthodoxy because Juraj is Croatian version of George.

Why you say these were isolated cases or more Croats converted to Serbs? I see a lot of Serbs in this branch and much less Croats

[Feiichy]

Why you say these were isolated cases or more Croats converted to Serbs? I see a lot of Serbs in this branch and much less Croats

In Croatia very rare (except on certain islands). But lot of Catholics converted to orthodoxy (and Islam) in Bosnia. In Croatia proper I would say more Serbs converted to Greek-Catholicism than the opposite.

[Live The Magic]

In Croatia very rare (except on certain islands). But lot of Catholics converted to orthodoxy (and Islam) in Bosnia. In Croatia proper I would say more Serbs converted to Greek-Catholicism than the opposite.

So its safe to say that most of I-PH908 are in the fact descendents of early Croats and that guys like this Serb match of mine is imagining or just does not want to admit that he might've had Croatian ancestor?

[Feiichy]

So its safe to say that most of I-PH908 are in the fact descendents of early Croats and that guys like this Serb match of mine is imagining or just does not want to admit that he might've had Croatian ancestor?

I don't see why should this particular clade be only Croat or Serb. It's a Slav lineage that had massive demographic expansion in western dinaric alps. And descendants are both Serbs and Croats. My father is PH908 too, and in his clade exist Croats, Serbs, Bosnian muslims, Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, even one Finn and Albanian.

[Live The Magic]

I don't see why should this particular clade be only Croat or Serb. It's a Slav lineage that had massive demographic expansion in western dinaric alps. And descendants are both Serbs and Croats. My father is PH908 too, and in his clade exist Croats, Serbs, Bosnian muslims, Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, even one Finn and Albanian.

Ok, so I guess I-PH908 can be from early formation of Slavs

[Feiichy]

Ok, so I guess I-PH908 can be from early formation of Slavs

It surely is, but it seems to be very minor lineage that exploded after migration to southeastern Europe. It's not much common among northern Slavs, I2-dinaric clades they have are mostly of different sort.

PH908 has very low diversity but high frequency among SerboCroats sugesting recent (post medieval even) demographic explosion.

[Feiichy]

Btw just wrote in Slavic expansion thread:

Two main markers of Slavic expansion seem to be R1 Z280 and I2a Y3210. R1a M458 does not fit with this instead, it seems to be local central Euro marker that was Slavicized later, and that can explain it's relative absence among early Slav samples.

[Dušan]

I-PH908 is rather Serbian, it can be found as main haplogroup in all regions where Serbs live, while among Croats it is distributed only in southern areas.
Kajkavians dont have it in large numbers.

[Feiichy]

I-PH908 is rather Serbian, it can be found as main haplogroup in all regions where Serbs live, while among Croats it is distributed only in southern areas.
Kajkavians dont have it in large numbers.

It just shows Serbs spread from very small population that later demographically expanded with Ottoman Migrations, and nothing more. That is why you have such poor dialectical diversity. It means your original area was much smaller than where Serbs live today. Croatia has more diversity because original Croatia was larger country than Serbia.

btw Serbs from Brda are E-V13 dominant.

[Feiichy]

while among Croats it is distributed only in southern areas.

This is incorrect, ofcourse.

[Live The Magic]

It just shows Serbs spread from very small population that later demographically expanded with Ottoman Migrations, and nothing more. That is why you have such poor dialectical diversity. It means your original area was much smaller than where Serbs live today. Croatia has more diversity because original Croatia was larger country than Serbia.

btw Serbs from Brda are E-V13 dominant.

Yeah, I think so too. Probably a lot of Serbs with I-PH908 had Croatian ancestor, but switched sides as you said it happened in some areas, and then they had a lot children.

[Dardanos]

It just shows Serbs spread from very small population that later demographically expanded with Ottoman Migrations, and nothing more. That is why you have such poor dialectical diversity. It means your original area was much smaller than where Serbs live today. Croatia has more diversity because original Croatia was larger country than Serbia.

btw Serbs from Brda are E-V13 dominant.

This is actually a very interesting thing I’ve noticed.

If you take out Torlak speakers (such as Gorani and others, whose speech Serbs consider Serbian despite being grammatically closer to Bulgarian, Macedonian, and other Eastern South Slavic dialects), Serbs have a very unified speech. From Mitrovica to Sombor and Banja Luka they mostly speak the same language, with only different accents.

Meanwhile, Slovenes and Croats have dialects so different that people living just 100–200 km apart often can’t understand each other.

Most of the Brda Montenegrins were Vlachs who adopted the Serbian ethnos during the Ottoman period, and many of them were originally Catholic.

[PaulieVanZant]

Nice results Paulie. I wonder what VC scores.

Target: villainchai
Distance: 1.4768% / 0.01476804
64.2 Proto_Slav
32.0 Keltic
2.4 Old_German
1.4 Volga_Finn

Distance to: villainchai
0.03493959 Proto_Slav
0.05431196 Old_German
0.06638912 Keltic
0.12904595 Volga_Finn
0.13271150 SE_Euro
0.39677866 Eurasian

[Figaro]

Target: FigaroMom
Distance: 1.4911% / 0.01491139
51.4 Proto_Slav
32.4 Old_German
14.2 SE_Euro
2.0 Eurasian

Target: FigaroDad
Distance: 1.8777% / 0.01877687
65.2 Old_German
14.8 Proto_Slav
11.4 SE_Euro
7.8 Keltic
0.8 Eurasian

[#Oda#]

result with only Lower Saxon ancestry:

Target: father_simulated_ANCESTRY_scaled
Distance: 0.8798% / 0.00879829
74.2 Old_German
24.2 Keltic
1.6 Proto_Slav

Distance to: father_simulated_ANCESTRY_scaled
0.01840243 Old_German
0.05099133 Keltic
0.07275816 Proto_Slav
0.12598168 SE_Euro
0.14482813 Volga_Finn
0.40243280 Eurasian

[cass]

Target: cass
Distance: 1.2016% / 0.01201626
54.0 Proto_Slav
37.2 Old_German
4.8 Keltic
4.0 SE_Euro

[Dušan]

This is actually a very interesting thing I’ve noticed.

If you take out Torlak speakers (such as Gorani and others, whose speech Serbs consider Serbian despite being grammatically closer to Bulgarian, Macedonian, and other Eastern South Slavic dialects), Serbs have a very unified speech. From Mitrovica to Sombor and Banja Luka they mostly speak the same language, with only different accents.

Meanwhile, Slovenes and Croats have dialects so different that people living just 100–200 km apart often can’t understand each other.

Most of the Brda Montenegrins were Vlachs who adopted the Serbian ethnos during the Ottoman period, and many of them were originally Catholic.

"Torlak" speakers are Serbian, and even among them I2-PH908 is most widespread of all haplogroups.
Serbs from south differs from both N.Macedonians and Bulgarians, by both genetics and linguistics, and are closer to other Serbs than to them.

[Dušan]

Target: cass
Distance: 1.2016% / 0.01201626
54.0 Proto_Slav
37.2 Old_German
4.8 Keltic
4.0 SE_Euro

Sorry my Polish friend, more proto-Slav than you. :P



Target: Dušan_scaled
Distance: 2.5257% / 0.02525666
59.4 Proto_Slav
38.8 SE_Euro
1.8 Eurasian

Avar stronk!

[Dardanos]

"Torlak" speakers are Serbian, and even among them I2-PH908 is most widespread of all haplogroups.
Serbs from south differs from both N.Macedonians and Bulgarians, by both genetics and linguistics, and are closer to other Serbs than to them.

For DNA I don’t know, I was talking about linguistics.

No, Torlak is grammatically more similar to Macedonian and Bulgarian.

Because all of them are part of the same language family, the only way to differentiate them is grammar.

Torlak is part of the Balkan Sprachbund and has developed some features that Albanian, Romanian, Greek, Bulgarian, and Macedonian have.

Torlak even has an evidential mood similar to Romanian and Albanian, and it even uses definite articles.

That, to me, doesn’t sound anything like Serbian.

The only argument you can use is that proper Serbian in the Middle Ages was more eastern and more like Macedonian, but it became Croaticized in later years.

[Dušan]

Target: Feiichy_scaled
Distance: 0.0312% / 0.03123582

57.1 Proto_Slav
28.9 SE_Euro
13.0 Old_German
1.0 Volga_Finn



Feiichy, this Vlach Dušan is more proto-Slav than you, on your own calculator. ;)

[Dušan]

For DNA I don’t know, I was talking about linguistics.

No, Torlak is grammatically more similar to Macedonian and Bulgarian.

Because all of them are part of the same language family, the only way to differentiate them is grammar.

Torlak is part of the Balkan Sprachbund and has developed some features that Albanian, Romanian, Greek, Bulgarian, and Macedonian have.

Torlak even has an evidential mood similar to Romanian and Albanian, and it even uses definite articles.

That, to me, doesn’t sound anything like Serbian.

The only argument you can use is that proper Serbian in the Middle Ages was more eastern and more like Macedonian, but it became Croaticized in later years.

Hahaha so its not only closer to Bulgarian, but to Albanian, than to other Serbian dialects?! :lol:

Do you speak and understand Serbian or some Slavic language overall? No, of course.

I can understand south Serbian dialect perfectly without any problem, because it is Serbian.

[Dardanos]

Hahaha so its not only closer to Bulgarian, but to Albanian, than to other Serbian dialects?! :lol:

Do you speak and understand Serbian or some Slavic language overall? No, of course.

I can understand south Serbian dialect perfectly without any problem, because it is Serbian.

Where did I say that Torlak is more similar to Albanian than to Serbian?

I said it developed some grammatical features like Albanian and Romanian.

My claim was that Torlak, as a language or dialect, is more similar to Bulgarian–Macedonian than to official Serbian.

Languages are not measured by how much you can understand them, but by how much grammar and vocabulary they share.

In this case, where both languages are from the same language group, it is grammar and sound shifts that we can observe.

And all I need to know is different sentences to compare them:

English
Torlakian (Western)
Torlakian (Eastern)
Serbian (Standard)
Macedonian (Standard)
Bulgarian (Standard)

I see the man.

Jaz vidim čovek-ot.

Jaz go vidam čovek-ot.

Vidim čoveka.

Go vidam čovek-ot.

Vidjah čovek-ǎt.


I want to go to the house.

Ću da idam v kuću. (or Ću idu v kuću)

Sašta da odam v kuća-ta.

Hoću da idem u kuću. (or infinitive: Hoću ići u kuću)

Sašam da odam vo kuќa-ta.

Iskam da oti da v kušta-ta.


The cat of Ivan’s.

Mačkata na Ivan.

Mačkata na Ivan.

Mačka Ivana (genitive)

Mačkata na Ivan.

Mačkata na Ivan.


I have seen it.

Jaz sum go vidjal.

Jaz sum go vidjal.

Video sam ga.

Go sum go videl.

Vidjal sum go.

[Dušan]

Where did I say that Torlak is more similar to Albanian than to Serbian?

I said it developed some grammatical features like Albanian and Romanian.

My claim was that Torlak, as a language or dialect, is more similar to Bulgarian–Macedonian than to official Serbian.

Languages are not measured by how much you can understand them, but by how much grammar and vocabulary they share.

In this case, where both languages are from the same language group, it is grammar and sound shifts that we can observe.

And all I need to know is different sentences to compare them:

English
Torlakian (Western)
Torlakian (Eastern)
Serbian (Standard)
Macedonian (Standard)
Bulgarian (Standard)

I see the man.

Jaz vidim čovek-ot.

Jaz go vidam čovek-ot.

Vidim čoveka.

Go vidam čovek-ot.

Vidjah čovek-ǎt.


I want to go to the house.

Ću da idam v kuću. (or Ću idu v kuću)

Sašta da odam v kuća-ta.

Hoću da idem u kuću. (or infinitive: Hoću ići u kuću)

Sašam da odam vo kuќa-ta.

Iskam da oti da v kušta-ta.


The cat of Ivan’s.

Mačkata na Ivan.

Mačkata na Ivan.

Mačka Ivana (genitive)

Mačkata na Ivan.

Mačkata na Ivan.


I have seen it.

Jaz sum go vidjal.

Jaz sum go vidjal.

Video sam ga.

Go sum go videl.

Vidjal sum go.


You clearly show in sample that I marked as red that it closer to official Serbian, than to Bulgarian and Macedonian.

By the way, ALL of that is pretty understandable, even to western Serbs as I am.
I could understand most of northern Slavic languages, let alone N. Macedonian and Bulgarian that are nearby.

[hazmatnik]

My claim was that Torlak, as a language or dialect, is more similar to Bulgarian–Macedonian than to official Serbian.


Prizrensko Timocki dialects (since Torlakian is not accepted name and only small portion of speakers near Stara Planina are called Torlaks) are by vocabulary closer to serbian and by grammar they can go into so called Balkan schprachbund.

[Dušan]

Prizrensko Timocki dialects (since Torlakian is not accepted name and only small portion of speakers near Stara Planina are called Torlaks) are by vocabulary closer to serbian and by grammar they can go into so called Balkan schprachbund.

And "Balkan schprachbund" is in some cases widespread all across Serb area, not only in south.

"Ja ću i dalje da ti pišem pesme" more popular than "Ja ću ti i dalje pisati pesme"

[hazmatnik]

And "Balkan schprachbund" is in some cases widespread all across Serb area, not only in south.

"Ja ću i dalje da ti pišem pesme" more popular than "Ja ću ti i dalje pisati pesme"

No man, Balkan schprachbund is mostly limited to Prizrensko Timocki of all serbian dialects. That example you gave is not good but things like lack of infinitive, definite article, lack of cases etc.

https://sr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D 0%B0_%D1%98%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D 0%B7%D0%B0%D1%98%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0% B0

[Dušan]

No man, Balkan schprachbund is mostly limited to Prizrensko Timocki of all serbian dialects. That example you gave is not good but things like lack of infinitive, definite article, lack of cases etc.

https://sr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D 0%B0_%D1%98%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D 0%B7%D0%B0%D1%98%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0% B0

This is lack of infinitive: "da pišem" vs "pisati"

[Dušan]

Sorry my Polish friend, more proto-Slav than you. :P

:eek:

https://i.imgur.com/3k2KVQz.png

[rothaer]

Great idea, it should exist today as well since orthodox churches are national. Poland, a Catholic nation, has own Orthodox church: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Orthodox_Church

Why then isn't the Anglican church as a national church taken out of the Roman Catholicism a great idea as well? :icon_ask:

[rothaer]

My 2 buddies :cool:

https://i.imgur.com/v4eX7SL.jpeg

On the left: I2a-Y3120 Kajkavian speaking Croat

Target: Martin_scaled
Distance: 0.0254% / 0.02541865

55.2 Proto_Slav
27.8 Old_German
15.6 SE_Euro
1.4 Eurasian

On the right: R1a-CTS1211 Čakavian speaking Croat

Target: Daki_scaled
Distance: 0.0201% / 0.02010966

61.0 Proto_Slav
22.6 SE_Euro
16.2 Old_German
0.2 Keltic

It's fitting that the Kajkavian has more (and at all a) small Chink DNA contribution ("Eurasian" seemingly is close to Nogai) considering his Pannonian connection.

[hazmatnik]

This is lack of infinitive: "da pišem" vs "pisati"

But infinitive is completely absent in Prizren - Timok dialect, unlike in standard serbian. Pišem still has infinitive pisati, unlike in southern dialects. I dont see any author includes serbian in Balkan Sprachbund.
Plus down there we have some extra phonemes not present in standard serbian, like дз and ъ.

[Feiichy]

:eek:

https://i.imgur.com/3k2KVQz.png

Sorry I didn't notice that (accident). I am on mobile

[Feiichy]

Feiichy, this Vlach Dušan is more proto-Slav than you, on your own calculator. ;)

I usually don't score Germanic. Do you like my calculator? I think it's best I ever did.

[Mortimer]

I usually don't score Germanic. Do you like my calculator? I think it's best I ever did.

Here’s a neat Apricity-style summary you can copy-paste, brother:
Target: Svetozar_scaled
Distance: 0.0256 (excellent fit)
Breakdown:
55.5% Early Modern Balkan Roma
13.6% Southeast European
11.2% Keltic
9.4% Proto-Slav
6.2% Old German
2.3% Volga Finn
1.8% Eurasian
Interpretation:
Svetozar models primarily as Balkan Roma, but with a clear pull toward mainstream Southeast Europeans (Serbs/Bulgarians/Greeks) and a noticeable Central European element (Hungarian/Austro-German influence). The Proto-Slav and SE Euro parts point to a Balkan-Slavic background, while the Keltic/Old German contributions reflect Central European input, very likely tied to the Hungarian and German presence in Banat/Vojvodina. Minor Volga-Finn and Eurasian traces are typical in broader Roma/Balkan models.
Overall, the result fits well with someone of Balkan Roma heritage shaped in a multi-ethnic Central European borderland.
Want me to also make you a shorter one-liner (like people sometimes put under their forum signature: “Roma-Balkan with Central European pull”) for Apricity?

[Mortimer]

Yes brother, that actually lines up very well with your G25 result ��
1. MyHeritage / AncestryDNA “Genetic Communities”
When they place you in Hungary + Vojvodina clusters, that’s not random.
It means you share long identical-by-descent DNA segments with many tested people from those regions.
This is consistent with local assimilation in Vojvodina/Banat, where Roma mixed with Hungarians, Serbs, and Germans.
So yes — that’s extra independent evidence that your ancestry isn’t just “Roma → Serbia,” but also tied to Hungary and the multi-ethnic population of Vojvodina.
2. mtDNA T2b5
Roma maternal haplogroups are typically M5a1, M18, U3, H24, etc. (South Asian or Middle Eastern origin).
T2b5 is not a classic Roma marker. It’s a European maternal lineage, common in Central and Southeastern Europe.
That suggests your maternal line was absorbed from the local European population at some point (could be Hungarian, Serbian, German, or other).
3. How It All Fits Together
Autosomal DNA (G25) → shows a Roma base with Central European (Hungarian/German) and Balkan Slavic admixture.
Genetic Communities → place you in exactly that historical region (Hungary + Vojvodina).
mtDNA T2b5 → confirms at least one maternal ancestor was not Roma, but European.
So the three pieces of evidence reinforce each other.
�� In short: you’re Roma by majority ancestry, but with Central European and Balkan input—and your maternal line (T2b5) proves that part of your family tree was absorbed from locals, not originally Roma.
Do you want me to write this up as a clean Apricity-style post combining G25 + MyHeritage/Ancestry + mtDNA into one interpretation? That way you could share the “full package” in one post

[Mortimer]

Here’s a clean Apricity-style post you can drop straight into a thread, brother:
Target: Svetozar_scaled
Distance: 0.0256 (excellent fit)
Breakdown (G25):
55.5% Early Modern Balkan Roma
13.6% Southeast European
11.2% Keltic
9.4% Proto-Slav
6.2% Old German
2.3% Volga Finn
1.8% Eurasian
Interpretation (Autosomal):
Primarily Balkan Roma, but with clear assimilation signals: a strong Southeast European (Serb/Bulgarian/Greek) pull and a noticeable Central European element (Keltic + Old German, consistent with Hungarian/Austro-German influence). This fits perfectly with the multi-ethnic history of Banat/Vojvodina, where Hungarians, Germans, and Serbs lived alongside Roma.
Extra Evidence (Other Tests):
On MyHeritage and AncestryDNA, I am placed in genetic communities tied to Hungary and Vojvodina, showing segment sharing with locals from those regions.
My mtDNA haplogroup is T2b5, which is European and not a typical Roma maternal lineage (most Roma carry South Asian or Near Eastern mtDNA). This suggests at least one maternal line was absorbed from the local European population.
Conclusion:
Genetically I cluster as Balkan Roma with significant Southeast European and Central European input. My results reflect the complex history of the Vojvodina/Banat borderlands, where Roma mixed with Hungarians, Serbs, and Germans.
�� Do you also want me to make you a short one-liner signature (like “Balkan Roma with Hungarian/Serb admixture, mtDNA T2b5”) you can use under posts?

[Dušan]

I usually don't score Germanic. Do you like my calculator? I think it's best I ever did.

I like it, its great.
I think you indeed score something western, either Germanic or Celtic.

[Dušan]

But infinitive is completely absent in Prizren - Timok dialect, unlike in standard serbian. Pišem still has infinitive pisati, unlike in southern dialects. I dont see any author includes serbian in Balkan Sprachbund.
Plus down there we have some extra phonemes not present in standard serbian, like дз and ъ.

I know.
I only gave you example where is more popular to use "Balkan Sprachbund" version, than infintive.
It is rare, but still exception

[Mortimer]

I like it, its great.
I think you indeed score something western, either Germanic or Celtic.

What about me

[Feiichy]

Here’s a neat Apricity-style summary you can copy-paste, brother:
Target: Svetozar_scaled
Distance: 0.0256 (excellent fit)
Breakdown:
55.5% Early Modern Balkan Roma
13.6% Southeast European
11.2% Keltic
9.4% Proto-Slav
6.2% Old German
2.3% Volga Finn
1.8% Eurasian
Interpretation:
Svetozar models primarily as Balkan Roma, but with a clear pull toward mainstream Southeast Europeans (Serbs/Bulgarians/Greeks) and a noticeable Central European element (Hungarian/Austro-German influence). The Proto-Slav and SE Euro parts point to a Balkan-Slavic background, while the Keltic/Old German contributions reflect Central European input, very likely tied to the Hungarian and German presence in Banat/Vojvodina. Minor Volga-Finn and Eurasian traces are typical in broader Roma/Balkan models.
Overall, the result fits well with someone of Balkan Roma heritage shaped in a multi-ethnic Central European borderland.
Want me to also make you a shorter one-liner (like people sometimes put under their forum signature: “Roma-Balkan with Central European pull”) for Apricity?


Yes brother, that actually lines up very well with your G25 result ��
1. MyHeritage / AncestryDNA “Genetic Communities”
When they place you in Hungary + Vojvodina clusters, that’s not random.
It means you share long identical-by-descent DNA segments with many tested people from those regions.
This is consistent with local assimilation in Vojvodina/Banat, where Roma mixed with Hungarians, Serbs, and Germans.
So yes — that’s extra independent evidence that your ancestry isn’t just “Roma → Serbia,” but also tied to Hungary and the multi-ethnic population of Vojvodina.
2. mtDNA T2b5
Roma maternal haplogroups are typically M5a1, M18, U3, H24, etc. (South Asian or Middle Eastern origin).
T2b5 is not a classic Roma marker. It’s a European maternal lineage, common in Central and Southeastern Europe.
That suggests your maternal line was absorbed from the local European population at some point (could be Hungarian, Serbian, German, or other).
3. How It All Fits Together
Autosomal DNA (G25) → shows a Roma base with Central European (Hungarian/German) and Balkan Slavic admixture.
Genetic Communities → place you in exactly that historical region (Hungary + Vojvodina).
mtDNA T2b5 → confirms at least one maternal ancestor was not Roma, but European.
So the three pieces of evidence reinforce each other.
�� In short: you’re Roma by majority ancestry, but with Central European and Balkan input—and your maternal line (T2b5) proves that part of your family tree was absorbed from locals, not originally Roma.
Do you want me to write this up as a clean Apricity-style post combining G25 + MyHeritage/Ancestry + mtDNA into one interpretation? That way you could share the “full package” in one post

I think your results make sense. Hungarian Roma are part ethnic Hungarian, and Vojvodina was part of Hungary. Maybe that's where your German (Au/mtDNA) comes from, as ethnic Magyars are very intermixed with Germans.

[Nurzat]

Target: Nurzat_dad
Distance: 2.1596% / 0.02159641
61.8 Proto_Slav
26.4 SE_Euro
7.4 Old_German
4.4 Eurasian


Target: Nurzat
Distance: 1.9066% / 0.01906592
50.6 Proto_Slav
36.2 SE_Euro
8.0 Old_German
2.6 Eurasian
2.6 Volga_Finn


Target: Nurzat_maternal_grandma
Distance: 2.5287% / 0.02528662
51.8 Proto_Slav
43.0 SE_Euro
3.2 Volga_Finn
2.0 Eurasian


Distance to: Nurzat_dad
0.05391280 Proto_Slav
0.06407338 Old_German
0.06570748 Keltic
0.11674799 SE_Euro
0.12919039 Volga_Finn
0.38238087 Eurasian

Distance to: Nurzat
0.05459408 Keltic
0.06484453 Proto_Slav
0.06596373 Old_German
0.10178011 SE_Euro
0.13963904 Volga_Finn
0.38727606 Eurasian

Distance to: Nurzat_maternal_grandma
0.05386105 Keltic
0.07344452 Proto_Slav
0.07510184 Old_German
0.09523714 SE_Euro
0.14779024 Volga_Finn
0.39060055 Eurasian

[Figaro]

Target: FigaroMom
Distance: 1.4911% / 0.01491139
51.4 Proto_Slav
32.4 Old_German
14.2 SE_Euro
2.0 Eurasian

Target: FigaroDad
Distance: 1.8777% / 0.01877687
65.2 Old_German
14.8 Proto_Slav
11.4 SE_Euro
7.8 Keltic
0.8 Eurasian

Possible my mother has distant Tatar ancestry? Could be Baltic noise, but every once in a while a calculator makes me wonder..

[Peterski]

Possible my mother has distant Tatar ancestry? Could be Baltic noise, but every once in a while a calculator makes me wonder..

Could be Lipka Tatar? Will you add your mother to the Poles from Kresy Project?

[JohnDoe22]

Target: cass
Distance: 1.2016% / 0.01201626
54.0 Proto_Slav
37.2 Old_German
4.8 Keltic
4.0 SE_Euro

My friend who is half Serbian and Half Russian score similar ressults, kashubians are his closest population, but he score a bit extra germanic, it could be from his Russ side.

Target: friend
Distance: 1.7313% / 0.01731307
56.8 Proto_Slav
41.0 Old_German
2.2 Keltic

[oszkar07]

Target: Oszkar
Distance: 2.5489% / 0.02548905 | ADC: 0.5x RC
44.6 Keltic
33.4 Proto_Slav
22.0 Old_German

[nrinehi]

Target: nrinehi
Distance: 2.8311% / 0.02831105
100.0 Proto_Slav

[oszkar07]

Target: Osk
Distance: 2.4961% / 0.02496077
40.2 Keltic
33.2 Proto_Slav
23.0 Old_German
2.4 SE_Euro
1.2 Eurasian

[AnthrogenicaRefugee]

Target: Dorkymon_Merged
Distance: 2.1599% / 0.02159948
43.0 Proto_Slav
37.0 SE_Euro
10.0 Old_German
5.0 Eurasian
5.0 Volga_Finn


Target: Brother_MyHeritage
Distance: 2.3218% / 0.02321812
61.2 Proto_Slav
35.0 SE_Euro
3.8 Eurasian


Target: Dorkymon_mom_MyHeritage
Distance: 2.4506% / 0.02450559
59.8 Proto_Slav
32.0 SE_Euro
5.2 Volga_Finn
3.0 Eurasian


Target: Dorkymon_dad_MyHeritage
Distance: 2.1393% / 0.02139259
53.2 Proto_Slav
36.0 SE_Euro
9.6 Volga_Finn
1.2 Eurasian


Target: Grandpa_FTDNA_sim
Distance: 1.9727% / 0.01972691
46.8 SE_Euro
46.2 Proto_Slav
7.0 Volga_Finn


Target: Grandma_FTDNA_sim
Distance: 1.1950% / 0.01195016
54.4 Proto_Slav
22.2 SE_Euro
13.6 Volga_Finn
9.8 Old_German


without Eurasian for those who got it.
Target: Dorkymon_dad_MyHeritage
Distance: 2.1438% / 0.02143821
49.2 Proto_Slav
37.2 SE_Euro
13.6 Volga_Finn

Target: Dorkymon_mom_MyHeritage
Distance: 2.5020% / 0.02501965
50.2 Proto_Slav
34.8 SE_Euro
15.0 Volga_Finn

Target: Brother_MyHeritage
Distance: 2.4161% / 0.02416081
48.6 Proto_Slav
38.8 SE_Euro
12.6 Volga_Finn

Target: Dorkymon_Merged
Distance: 2.3032% / 0.02303151
42.6 SE_Euro
28.6 Proto_Slav
21.8 Volga_Finn
7.0 Old_German

[Rædwald]

Target: Rædwald
Distance: 1.7091% / 0.01709120
58.6 Old_German
35.4 Keltic
2.6 Eurasian
1.8 Volga_Finn
1.6 Proto_Slav

[Nisko]

Target: Nisko
Distance: 1.7744% / 0.01774428
56.6 Old_German
16.8 Proto_Slav
13.4 Keltic
13.2 SE_Euro

[tk'es]

Target: tk'es_scaled
Distance: 0.0414% / 0.04143614
65.6 Caucasus
15.5 Old_German
11.7 Ciscaucasia
7.2 Eurasian



Distance to: tk'es_scaled
0.07927466 Caucasus:Anc
0.13530474 SE_Euro
0.14870076 Ciscaucasia:Anc
0.14979705 Keltic
0.15780246 Old_German
0.17380164 Proto_Slav
0.19190646 Volga_Finn
0.36595663 Eurasian

[cakmir7y]

Target: cakmir7y_scaled
Distance: 2.1318% / 0.02131840
45.6 Proto_Slav
32.0 Keltic
17.4 Old_German
4.8 Volga_Finn
0.2 SE_Euro

[Siginulfo]

Target: Siginulfo_scaled
Distance: 3.2088% / 0.03208844
89.6 SE_Euro
8.6 Proto_Slav
1.8 Eurasian


Target: SiginulfoGF_scaled
Distance: 3.0373% / 0.03037330
47.6 Proto_Slav
33.6 SE_Euro
9.2 Old_German
7.2 Volga_Finn
2.4 Eurasian

[Gallop]

Target: Gallop_scaled
Distance: 0.0385% / 0.03849692
80.2 Keltic
17.9 SE_Euro
1.9 Eurasian

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 0.0403% / 0.04034866
78.8 Keltic
19.5 SE_Euro
1.7 Eurasian

Target: brother_scaled
Distance: 0.0419% / 0.04186700
74.0 Keltic
25.2 SE_Euro
0.8 Eurasian

[Fabricius]

Target: Fabricius_K13-G25
Distance: 6.3511% / 0.06351108
41.8 SE_Euro
21.2 Keltic
20.6 Old_German
13.4 Proto_Slav
3.0 Eurasian

Target: Fabricius_K15-G25
Distance: 6.4628% / 0.06462823
41.2 SE_Euro
21.4 Keltic
21.0 Old_German
13.0 Proto_Slav
3.4 Eurasian

Target: Fabricius_K36-G25
Distance: 6.4606% / 0.06460586
46.6 SE_Euro
22.6 Keltic
16.2 Old_German
10.4 Proto_Slav
4.2 Eurasian

Target: Fabricius_MyHeritage-to-g25(simulated)
Distance: 6.1756% / 0.06175621
51.2 SE_Euro
20.4 Old_German
13.2 Proto_Slav
10.0 Keltic
5.2 Eurasian

[Usernotfound]

Target: nrinehi
Distance: 2.8311% / 0.02831105
100.0 Proto_Slav

Wow