Poles from Volhynia DNA results

[Peterski]

Six Poles who are fully from Volhynia in Eurogenes K15 and their average:


Polish_Volhynia1,19.52,22.24,28.99,19.02,5.96,0.52 ,1.76,0,1.27,0,0,0.48,0,0.24,0
Polish_Volhynia2,25.99,16.49,28.81,18.28,7.29,0.41 ,0,0.24,1.78,0,0.51,0.12,0,0.07,0
Polish_Volhynia3,19.77,12.66,32.9,20.6,5.53,1.91,4 .28,0.75,0,0,0,0.72,0.88,0,0
Polish_Volhynia4,18.98,19.97,32.04,20.2,4.86,2.1,0 ,0,0,0,0.58,0.79,0,0.48,0
Polish_Volhynia5,25.17,14.48,25.77,19.39,9.22,4.97 ,0,0,0,0,0.05,0,0,0.67,0.3
Polish_Volhynia6,20.66,17.04,25.98,23.04,8.98,0,2. 36,0.65,0.65,0,0,0,0.64,0,0
Polish_Volhynia(n=6),21.68,17.15,29.08,20.09,6.97, 1.65,1.40,0.27,0.62,0,0.19,0.35,0.25,0.24,0.05

=====

Edit:

And their K36 Similitude (except for one kit number which has bugged results in K36):

https://i.imgur.com/DX2xykZ.png

I think their results show that they are a mix of West Slavic with East Slavic ancestry.

=====

Edit:

Y-DNA haplogroups of Volhynian Poles as of today:

https://i.imgur.com/apW8l1C.png

[Peterski]

Poles from Volhynia (PL_Wolyn - 5 persons and their average, in total 6 black dots) compared to my European K36 PCA:

https://i.imgur.com/5Y6iQk8.png

https://i.imgur.com/5Y6iQk8.png

And here their distances to population averages, does it indicate colonisation from the direction of Masovia?:

Polish_Volhynia

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Europe_PL_Mazowieckie
0.4314035
Europe_PL_Central-Poland:HellBus
0.4375797
Europe_PL_Wielkopolskie:Medieval
0.4386821
Europe_PL_Podlaskie
0.4489220
Europe_PL_Swietokrzyskie
0.4686961
Europe_UA_Sumy-Oblast
0.4730116
Europe_PL_Zachodniopomorskie:Medieval
0.4760956
Europe_PL_Wielkopolskie:South
0.4982248
Europe_BY_Grodno-Region
0.5119209
Russia_RUS_Smolensk
0.5302151
Europe_BY_Brest-Region
0.5373956
Europe_PL_Lubelskie
0.5437224
Europe_BY_Homyel-Region
0.5508067
Europe_UA_Dnipropetrovsk-Oblast
0.5655466
Europe_PL_Radom
0.5743762
Europe_PL_Central-Poland:Warsaw
0.5785992
Europe_UA_Rivne-Oblast
0.5914017
Europe_PL_Warmia-Masuria
0.5989917
Europe_BY_Minsk-Region
0.6033009
Europe_UA_Chernihiv-Oblast
0.6065196
Russia_RUS_Voronezh
0.6301492
Europe_PL_Wielkopolskie
0.6305244
Europe_PL_Lower-Silesia:Medieval
0.6333996
Europe_UA_Zhytomyr-Oblast
0.6369231
Europe_UA_Luhansk-Oblast
0.6416759
Europe_UA_Vinnytsia-Oblast
0.6426710
(...)

=====

Edit:

Modelling as a mix of 5 ancestral populations (in Vahaduo):

Target: Polish_Volhynia(n=5)
Distance: 1.22429146 | R5P
39.4 Europe_PL_Mazowieckie
37.8 Europe_BY_Brest-Region
9.6 Europe_GB_Scotland-Highland
8.2 Europe_LV_Latvia-Riga
5.0 Europe_SWE_Sweden-Scania

Brest Region (Polesye) borders Volhynia to the north.

So Masovian-Podlachian colonists who on their way to Volhynia mixed with Polesyans?

But there is also some Celto-Germanic and Baltic too.

[Beowulf]

Modelling as a mix of 5 ancestral populations (in Vahaduo):

Target: Polish_Volhynia(n=5)
Distance: 1.22429146 | R5P
39.4 Europe_PL_Mazowieckie
37.8 Europe_BY_Brest-Region
9.6 Europe_GB_Scotland-Highland
8.2 Europe_LV_Latvia-Riga
5.0 Europe_SWE_Sweden-Scania

Brest Region (Polesye) borders Volhynia to the north.

So Masovian-Podlachian colonists who on their way to Volhynia mixed with Polesyans?

But there is also some Celto-Germanic and Baltic too.


Where did you get those very specific regional samples? :eek:

[Peterski]

Where did you get those very specific regional samples?

From various academic studies as well as from GEDmatch.

[Fistora]

Are they 100% of Polish descent?
the influences of Polish settlement and perhaps further ?Volhynian German? settlement can be seen.

broadly understood Western/Celto-Germanic influence through Polish or German settlement
9.6 Europe_GB_Scotland-Highland
5.0 Europe_SWE_Sweden-Scania

[Peterski]

Are they 100% of Polish descent?

They identify as Polish and have all of their great-grandparents from Volhynia.

But some non-Polish admixtures (for example Volhynian German) are possible.

[cass]

And here their distances to population averages, does it indicate colonisation from the direction of Masovia?:

Polish_Volhynia

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Europe_PL_Mazowieckie
0.4314035
Europe_PL_Central-Poland:HellBus
0.4375797
Europe_PL_Wielkopolskie:Medieval
0.4386821
Europe_PL_Podlaskie
0.4489220
Europe_PL_Swietokrzyskie
0.4686961
Europe_UA_Sumy-Oblast
0.4730116
Europe_PL_Zachodniopomorskie:Medieval
0.4760956
Europe_PL_Wielkopolskie:South
0.4982248
Europe_BY_Grodno-Region
0.5119209
Russia_RUS_Smolensk
0.5302151
Europe_BY_Brest-Region
0.5373956
Europe_PL_Lubelskie
0.5437224
Europe_BY_Homyel-Region
0.5508067
Europe_UA_Dnipropetrovsk-Oblast
0.5655466
Europe_PL_Radom
0.5743762
Europe_PL_Central-Poland:Warsaw
0.5785992
Europe_UA_Rivne-Oblast
0.5914017
Europe_PL_Warmia-Masuria
0.5989917
Europe_BY_Minsk-Region
0.6033009
Europe_UA_Chernihiv-Oblast
0.6065196
Russia_RUS_Voronezh
0.6301492
Europe_PL_Wielkopolskie
0.6305244
Europe_PL_Lower-Silesia:Medieval
0.6333996
Europe_UA_Zhytomyr-Oblast
0.6369231
Europe_UA_Luhansk-Oblast
0.6416759
Europe_UA_Vinnytsia-Oblast
0.6426710
(...)

Мазури Masurs

What's so surprising about that?

[Peterski]

Мазури Masurs

What's so surprising about that?

Well I didn't know that there was settlement of Masurs / Masovians there. :)

The guy from whom I got these kit numbers* claims that all of them are "native to Volhynia since time immemorial".
Do you know any literature / publications which tell about Polish colonisation of Volhynia / origins of Volhynian Poles?

*He bought DNA tests for a lot of Polish people from Volhynia and then contributed these kits to my Project at FTDNA.

=====

The guy who contributed most of these Volhynian Poles to my "Poles from Kresy" FTDNA Project, and who uploaded them to GEDmatch, claims that he did not find - when using traditional genealogy - any traces of migration from Poland (west of the Bug River) to Volhynia. He claims that families from Volhynia do have family legends about originating from Masovia / Poland, but he did not confirm these legends when doing the paper trail genealogy work. My guess is that this migration happened earlier than "papers" exist in archives (I mean, "papers" for such early times - when this migration possibly took place - are not available in archives and church records)?

[cass]

The guy who contributed most of these Volhynian Poles to my "Poles from Kresy" FTDNA Project, and who uploaded them to GEDmatch, claims that he did not find - when using traditional genealogy - any traces of migration from Poland (west of the Bug River) to Volhynia. He claims that families from Volhynia do have family legends about originating from Masovia / Poland, but he did not confirm these legends when doing the paper trail genealogy work. My guess is that this migration happened earlier than "papers" exist in archives (I mean, "papers" for such early times - when this migration possibly took place - are not available in archives and church records)?

According to historian Ihor Zapadenko, the contemporary Mazurs inhabiting this region trace their origin to Mazovia in Poland. Their settlement in Podolia commenced following the conclusion of the Ottoman invasion in 1699, which had devastated the area. It was during the 17-18th century that Mazurs began to arrive in Ploskyriv and the surrounding villages.

Of particular interest is the entry in the Geographical Dictionary of the Kingdom of Poland and Other Slavic Countries (1887), which records the following regarding the Mazurs residing in the Ploskyriv starosty:

“The inhabitants of Maćkowce, Szarowieczka, and Greczany, as they themselves attest, departed from Kuyavia and settled here in the closing years of the preceding century. The Mazurs remain entirely separated from other local groups, maintaining close internal cohesion. They have preserved their original customs, attire, and even their dialect. In certain villages, one may also encounter Mazurs who settled together with the indigenous population.”

This designation became so firmly established in Ukraine that, in addition to the ethnonym Lachy, the appellation Mazury is also employed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGgImzX6Gb8&t

[Peterski]

(...) departed from Kuyavia and settled here in the closing years of the preceding century. (...)

From Kuyavia, that's very interesting! Because they also have a very close distance to Kujawsko-Pomorskie but I did not post this distance because I thought that my Kujawsko-Pomorskie average is too eastern (I have two different averages for Kujawsko-Pomorskie with samples coming from two different sources, one is more eastern-shifted than the other):

Polish_Volhynia

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Europe_PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15
0.3152729
(...)

^^^
This one is made from 15 samples.


Their settlement in Podolia commenced following the conclusion of the Ottoman invasion in 1699, which had devastated the area. It was during the 17-18th century that Mazurs began to arrive in Ploskyriv and the surrounding villages.

Okay but this is about Podolia not Volhynia.

[cass]

From Kuyavia, that's very interesting! Because they also have a very close distance to Kujawsko-Pomorskie but I did not post this distance because I thought that my Kujawsko-Pomorskie average is too eastern (I have two different averages for Kujawsko-Pomorskie with samples coming from two different sources, one is more eastern-shifted than the other):

Polish_Volhynia

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Europe_PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15
0.3152729
(...)

^^^
This one is made from 15 samples.

There was one forum participant here who directly traced his descent from them

[Peterski]

There was one forum participant here who directly traced his descent from them

Who? On this forum (Apricity)?

[cass]

Who? On this forum (Apricity)?

I think so (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?28223-Abriekman); afair his genome was similar to that of the Slovaks

[Peterski]

I think so (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?28223-Abriekman); afair his genome was similar to that of the Slovaks

Ah yes I remember Abriekman. But I think his ancestry is from East Galicia not Volhynia?

[cass]

From Kuyavia, that's very interesting! Because they also have a very close distance to Kujawsko-Pomorskie but I did not post this distance because I thought that my Kujawsko-Pomorskie average is too eastern (I have two different averages for Kujawsko-Pomorskie with samples coming from two different sources, one is more eastern-shifted than the other):

Polish_Volhynia

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Europe_PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15
0.3152729
(...)

^^^
This one is made from 15 samples.



Okay but this is about Podolia not Volhynia.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/RON_wojew%C3%B3dztwo_wo%C5%82y%C5%84skie_map.svg

In my opinion, in the nomenclature of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth it would be Volhynia

[Peterski]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/RON_wojew%C3%B3dztwo_wo%C5%82y%C5%84skie_map.svg

In my opinion, in the nomenclature of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth it would be Volhynia

Indeed Volhynian Voivodeship of the PLC extended a bit beyond the pre-1939 eastern border of Poland:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=141I3i4lIStgx9zCZl0mlBIKBi0u1fDo&usp=sharing

https://i.imgur.com/n5ImCW2.png

[Wandal]

According to historian Ihor Zapadenko, the contemporary Mazurs inhabiting this region trace their origin to Mazovia in Poland. Their settlement in Podolia commenced following the conclusion of the Ottoman invasion in 1699, which had devastated the area. It was during the 17-18th century that Mazurs began to arrive in Ploskyriv and the surrounding villages.

Of particular interest is the entry in the Geographical Dictionary of the Kingdom of Poland and Other Slavic Countries (1887), which records the following regarding the Mazurs residing in the Ploskyriv starosty:

“The inhabitants of Maćkowce, Szarowieczka, and Greczany, as they themselves attest, departed from Kuyavia and settled here in the closing years of the preceding century. The Mazurs remain entirely separated from other local groups, maintaining close internal cohesion. They have preserved their original customs, attire, and even their dialect. In certain villages, one may also encounter Mazurs who settled together with the indigenous population.”

This designation became so firmly established in Ukraine that, in addition to the ethnonym Lachy, the appellation Mazury is also employed.



It's long before 1699.

Facta Simonidis, 2008 nr 1. in the article by Władysław Makarski, Zamość i Zamojszczyzna na mapie językowej i kulturowej Polski,
page 319

Lachy / Lech originates in the Russian language and was applied to the people moved (wysiedlenie) further east in the 12th century A.D.

Volhynia extended far beyond the 1939 border arguably to Żytomierz. (at least to Berdyczów)

Tens of thousands were trapped there under the Bolshevik government.

[rothaer]

According to historian Ihor Zapadenko, the contemporary Mazurs inhabiting this region trace their origin to Mazovia in Poland. Their settlement in Podolia commenced following the conclusion of the Ottoman invasion in 1699, which had devastated the area. It was during the 17-18th century that Mazurs began to arrive in Ploskyriv and the surrounding villages.

Of particular interest is the entry in the Geographical Dictionary of the Kingdom of Poland and Other Slavic Countries (1887), which records the following regarding the Mazurs residing in the Ploskyriv starosty:

“The inhabitants of Maćkowce, Szarowieczka, and Greczany, as they themselves attest, departed from Kuyavia and settled here in the closing years of the preceding century. The Mazurs remain entirely separated from other local groups, maintaining close internal cohesion. They have preserved their original customs, attire, and even their dialect. In certain villages, one may also encounter Mazurs who settled together with the indigenous population.”

This designation became so firmly established in Ukraine that, in addition to the ethnonym Lachy, the appellation Mazury is also employed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGgImzX6Gb8&t

Great contribution.

Can you say in a rough overview how Kresy Poles' dialects are connected to other Polish dialects?

In respect to the medieval German Ostsiedlung in addition to anecdotal historical records an analysis of the formed dialects is often used for an assessment what tribal/regional proportions of various Old German settlers contributed to the settlement.

In the context of the Ostsiedlung the so called New German tribes (deutsche Neustämme) such as Mecklenburgians, Brandenburgians, German Pomeranians (Pommern) and German Silesians (Schlesier) soon emerged by a fusion of Old German settlers and local Slavs. Are respective events known for Kresy Poles?

[Peterski]

Can you say in a rough overview how Kresy Poles' dialects are connected to other Polish dialects?

Based on this website Volhynia is part of South Kresy dialect, so not derived from Masovian but from Lesser Polish:

https://lingwistyka.fandom.com/pl/wiki/Dialekty_j%C4%99zyka_polskiego

"North Kresy dialect - a Polish dialect which exists in Lithuania and Belarus, it emerged from Masovian dialect, it has influences from Belarusian language and few influences from Lithuanian language.

South Kresy dialect - a Polish dialect which exists in Ukraine, it emerged from Lesser Polish dialect, it is characterized by influences from Ukrainian language."

[Wandal]

In the context of the Ostsiedlung the so called New German tribes (deutsche Neustämme) such as Mecklenburgians, Brandenburgians, German Pomeranians (Pommern) and German Silesians (Schlesier) soon emerged by a fusion of Old German settlers and local Slavs

Such exaggeration.
There are always marginal mixing but even until 1945 the Polish, Rusini, and Germans didn't even wear the same clothes.
You could see from a short distance who was working in the field.

[Peterski]

Three new samples fully from Volhynia, Eurogenes K15:


Polish_Volhynia7,21.61,15.6,29.62,16.63,5.92,5.99, 2.39,0.98,0.4,0.08,0.17,0.08,0.17,0.08,0.31
Polish_Volhynia8,19.21,14.16,34.03,19.49,4.97,4.78 ,1.78,0.2,0,0.4,0,0.31,0.69,0,0
Polish_Volhynia9,24.35,17.38,25.86,18.4,6,5.37,0.8 9,0,1.06,0,0,0,0.2,0.43,0.07
Polish_Volhynia(n=9),21.70,16.67,29.33,19.45,6.53, 2.89,1.50,0.31,0.57,0.05,0.15,0.28,0.29,0.22,0.08

And the new average in Eurogenes K36 Similitude Map:

https://i.imgur.com/alW6yYI.png

New PCA and new distances:

https://i.imgur.com/h7AfDeS.png

Polish_Volhynia

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Europe_PL_Central-Poland:HellBus
0.2558574
Europe_PL_Mazowieckie
0.2765231
Europe_PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15
0.2772760
Europe_PL_Podlaskie
0.2969478
Europe_PL_Swietokrzyskie
0.3309094
Europe_PL_Zachodniopomorskie:Medieval
0.3657349
Europe_BY_Grodno-Region
0.3661994
Europe_PL_Lubelskie
0.3708059
Europe_UA_Sumy-Oblast
0.3795352
Europe_BY_Homyel-Region
0.3843839
Europe_PL_Wielkopolskie:South
0.4180562
Europe_PL_Wielkopolskie:Medieval
0.4336946
Europe_UA_Rivne-Oblast
0.4442916
Europe_PL_Radom
0.4503676
Europe_BY_Brest-Region
0.4562313
Europe_PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie
0.4578635
Europe_PL_Wielkopolskie:HO
0.4833198
Europe_UA_Dnipropetrovsk-Oblast
0.4888599
Europe_PL_Lower-Silesia:Medieval
0.5022111
Europe_PL_Central-Poland:Warsaw
0.5031044
Europe_PL_Warmia-Masuria
0.5105918
Europe_PL_Podkarpackie
0.5116268
Russia_RUS_Smolensk
0.5121826
Europe_BY_Minsk-Region
0.5347887
Europe_UA_Chernihiv-Oblast
0.5393209
Europe_PL_Wielkopolskie:GED
0.5407578
Russia_RUS_Voronezh
0.5432283
Europe_BY_Vitebsk-Region
0.5525441
Europe_UA_Zhytomyr-Oblast
0.5534094
(...)

=====

And some Two-Way Approximation models for Polish_Volhynia:

Genetic distance population = x + y

1.242 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 61% PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15 + 39% UA_Rivne-Oblast
1.548 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 58% BY_Homyel-Region + 42% PL_Warmia-Masuria
1.557 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 58% UA_Sumy-Oblast + 42% PL_Warmia-Masuria
1.608 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 55% BY_Grodno-Region + 45% PL_Wielkopolskie:South
1.613 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 67% PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15 + 33% UA_Dnipropetrovsk-Oblast
1.628 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 52% PL_Warmia-Masuria + 48% UA_Chernihiv-Oblast
1.713 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 73% PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15 + 27% BY_Grodno-Region
1.741 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 54% BY_Minsk-Region + 46% PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie
1.749 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 77% PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15 + 23% RUS_Ryazan
1.762 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 50% PL_Mazowieckie + 50% PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15
1.766 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 76% PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15 + 24% BY_Mogilev-Region
1.786 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 53% PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15 + 47% PL_Podlaskie
1.796 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 61% PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15 + 39% BY_Grodno-Region
1.848 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 74% PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15 + 26% UA_Cherkasy-Oblast
1.856 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 68% PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15 + 32% BY_Brest-Region
1.867 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 55% PL_Central-Poland:HellBus + 45% PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15
1.890 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 53% BY_Brest-Region + 47% PL_Warmia-Masuria
1.891 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 59% BY_Brest-Region + 41% PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie
1.898 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 63% PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15 + 37% BY_Homyel-Region
1.899 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 73% PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15 + 27% BY_Vitebsk-Region
1.899 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 52% BY_Brest-Region + 48% PL_Wielkopolskie:HO
1.904 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 83% PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15 + 17% RUS_Yaroslavl
1.930 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 80% PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie:N15 + 20% RUS_Ryazan
1.961 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 76% PL_Central-Poland:HellBus + 24% PL_Warmia-Masuria
1.970 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 52% PL_Wielkopolskie:South + 48% BY_Brest-Region
1.989 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 53% BY_Brest-Region + 47% PL_Wielkopolskie:HO
1.998 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 54% UA_Rivne-Oblast + 46% PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie
2.001 Polish_Volhynia(n=8) = 74% PL_Central-Poland:HellBus + 26% BY_Brest-Region

[Peterski]

Poles in Volhynia in 1931 by type of settlement:

https://i.imgur.com/x7STal1.png