Should the Balkans be annexed back to Turkey?

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

I am sorry for making this very explicit thread title but this pretty much sums the whole question of the thread. The Balkans have had a sad and violent history of interaction since ancient times, where the anger between distinct ethnic states and empires has often damaged the development of neighbor states. Many unfortunate events have happened there and many state split ups. It is certainly a troubled region that could have progressed further much had it not been for petty ethnic rivalries.

Had a Turkoman power remained there continuosly those petty ethnic rivalries and civil warfares would not exist. With Turkish control there would have not been Kosovo war, there wouldn't be Srebenica, there would not exist hate between such very similarly related people.

In this hypothethic scenario they would not necessarily lose their sovereignity, they could be some sort of West Azerbaycan, but all of them would embrace a Turk nation and ethnicity in the Balkans.

[Kanuni]

What is up with this forum?

Did a hacker programmed bots to piss off the Apricity crew?

[Lithium]

Die please, erase yourself from the world.

[Flintlocke]

GTFO. If we wanna kill and fight each other we will. Don't want your fake peace.

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

Why are you so offended? I read a thread weeks ago that was called "Should England become the lapdog of the USA".

[Lithium]

Why are you so offended? I read a thread weeks ago that was called "Should England become the lapdog of the USA".

What can you do for EUROPEAN preservation? Except for committing a suicide

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

What can you do for EUROPEAN preservation? Except for committing a suicide

Can you do something for European preservation other than vomit senseless insults? I at least put some effort in explaining my idea.

[Kanuni]

OK i agree just if Turkiye makes Alboz rulers of Balkans just as in the old and good times.

Osmanli Imparatorlugu yaşasin

[Lithium]

Can you do something for European preservation other than vomit senseless insults? I at least put some effort in explaining my idea.

This is not an idea, this is just a provocation from your side. You Turks can bring the worse out of people.

[Lena]

The Balkans have had a sad and violent history of interaction since ancient times, where the anger between distinct ethnic states and empires has often damaged the development of neighbor states.

The whole Europe was like that in 'ancient times', but Balkan is crippled due to Ottomans, who introduced one more religion, Islam, to already troublesome areas.

Who'd ever guess that Turkey is so desperate to enter EU...

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

OK i agree just if Turkiye makes Alboz rulers of Balkans just as in the old and good times.

Osmanli Imparatorlugu yaşasin

Albos would not exist, you would be Dardanian Tatars. Croatians would be Dinaric Turks, etc.

[Kanuni]

Albos would not exist, you would be Dardanian Tatars. Croatians would be Dinaric Turks, etc.

The only way to Turkify is marrying Alboz with hawt Turkish ladies.

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

The only way to Turkify is marrying Alboz with hawt Turkish ladies.

Nah, a few Turkish males in Albania would suffice. After all you're already half assimilated. 70% of your population is Muslim and you look almost identical to Turks, more so than the other nations in the Balkans.

[Rron]

Nah, a few Turkish males in Albania would suffice. After all you're already half assimilated. 70% of your population is Muslim and you look almost identical to Turks, more so than the other nations in the Balkans.
Listen to me batman any your other provocative post like this, and i will report your posts.

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

Listen to me batman any your other provocative post like this, and i will report your posts.

All the provocations have been on the Balkan side on this thread. I've not spit a single insult.-

[Sturmgewehr]

After the Race Ladder thread this is the Second Dumbest thread I have seen.

Congratulations, you just won The Dumbest Thread Award.

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

After the Race Ladder thread this is the Second Dumbest thread I have seen.

Congratulations, you just won The Dumbest Thread Award.

Explain why, you don't think what I explained in the initial post is true?

[Sturmgewehr]

Nah, a few Turkish males in Albania would suffice. After all you're already half assimilated. 70% of your population is Muslim and you look almost identical to Turks, more so than the other nations in the Balkans.

If Islam is the norm for Identical then I guess Nigerian Catholics are Identical to German Catholics or Italians.


We are by no way in any way Identical to Turks, Racially, Genetically, Linguistics, Traditions and so on.

[Sturmgewehr]

Explain why, you don't think what I explained in the initial post is true?

it is simply dumb, unsubstantiated and based on ur personal bias.

Why should I explain u anything ???

all u have to do is grab a History book and u will learn everything.

U will see how just in a 30 Years period u had 25 Wars only with Albanians and u talking about peace here.

Your thread lacks coherence, it is unsubstantiated, based on ur own bias and definitely dumb.

I am out.

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

If Islam is the norm for Identical then I guess Nigerian Catholics are Identical to German Catholics or Italians.


We are by no way in any way Identical to Turks, Racially, Genetically, Linguistics, Traditions and so on.

Nigerian catholics are very different from German catholics because they're a people separated by sea, mountains, desert, jungle and thousands of Kilometers. It would make sense to say that Albanian muslims are very different from Indonesian muslims or Chinese muslim but it does not make sense to say an Albanian Muslim is very different from a Turkish muslim as they're not separated by all those huge barriers than that of a German Catholic and a Nigerian Catholic.

Albanians, like other Balkanians look very similar to Turks and cluster close to us and Armenians and share many of our Y-dna lineages.

[Rron]

All the provocations have been on the Balkan side on this thread. I've not spit a single insult.-
This thread is provocative, open your history books and realize our sense for your empire at least only read about Gjergj Kastrioti.

[Rron]

....edit

[Rron]

Nigerian catholics are very different from German catholics because they're a people separated by sea, mountains, desert, jungle and thousands of Kilometers. It would make sense to say that Albanian muslims are very different from Indonesian muslims or Chinese muslim but it does not make sense to say an Albanian Muslim is very different from a Turkish muslim as they're not separated by all those huge barriers than that of a German Catholic and a Nigerian Catholic.

Albanians, like other Balkanians look very similar to Turks and cluster close to us and Armenians and share many of our Y-dna lineages.
This is crap , your intentions to provoce are well known since you joined forum, so im not going to give you any attention.

[Sturmgewehr]

Nigerian catholics are very different from German catholics because they're a people separated by sea, mountains, desert, jungle and thousands of Kilometers. It would make sense to say that Albanian muslims are very different from Indonesian muslims or Chinese muslim but it does not make sense to say an Albanian Muslim is very different from a Turkish muslim as they're not separated by all those huge barriers than that of a German Catholic and a Nigerian Catholic.

Albanians, like other Balkanians look very similar to Turks and cluster close to us and Armenians and share many of our Y-dna lineages.

A bunch of Logical Fallacies thrown in here.

Albanian Muslims are definitely not Identical to Turkish Muslims if they are then u should care to explain, plus Albanians are not really that religious especially when talking about Albania Albanians where inter - religious Marriages are almost as common as marriages inside the same religions.

Albanians don't base their way of life on Islam, more like ALbanians live according to old traditions, islam of course has affected a bit but not as much as you would think.

While islam is taken 3 times more seriously in Turkey, Islam among Albanians is not taken that Seriously.

Albanians definitely don't look very Similar to Turks in their Genetic Make up.

Plus the word Turks is just a bunch of shit, it is a construct after the Ottoman fall, the Nowadays Turks are a mish mash of Balkan Native Population and Anatolian Native Population mixed with whatever came during the Ottoman Period there.

Cameroon Bantu speakers also share the same Y-DNA with Irish people but they don't cluster closely with Bantu people.

Having the same Y-DNA doesn't mean much, the only thing it means is that u absorbed a bunch of Native Y DNA when u came from Mongolia as a Seljuk Turk. it doesn't mean u brought that DNA here cuz it was here u just absorbed it.

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

This is crap , your intentions to provoce are well known since you joined forum, so im not going to give you any attention.

Simple question: Is Albania more similar to Turkey or to Germany? Just answer that.

[The Lawspeaker]

I guess I was wrong somewhere about Albo's as the fifth column now I see those bugger in the first line of defence against the Turk. My respects and even though you're still a bunch of goatfuckers... you're our goatfuckers. So after you lot standing up in your defence: I think I owe you an apology.

The Balkans and Turkey: Hell no. Turks back in Central Asia if they would give it a try with the help of just about everyone in Europe (and I would volunteer for the army myself) ? A very entertaining thought indeed.

[Sturmgewehr]

Simple question: Is Albania more similar to Turkey or to Germany? Just answer that.

To none, Albania is similar to their Neighboring Country, why even tempt to make such a comparison >???

it is a shitty analogy in the first place.

Albania has never been similar to Germany even when it was 100% Christian cuz Albania is a unique culture with unique language, traditions and so on.

The question u asked is as dumb as ur claim that having the same YDNA means being genetically compatible.

[Flintlocke]

Simple question: Is Albania more similar to Turkey or to Germany? Just answer that.

More similar to Italy and Greece.

[Rron]

Simple question: Is Albania more similar to Turkey or to Germany? Just answer that.
In what meaning , after your came here your first goal was to destroy culture of Albanians, so that comparison doesnt have sense while we are not religious, and we are taking care day by day more than ever to exclude religion from our society (not matter which).

[Padre Organtino]

Albos are Greeks that are into goatse and wife beating. Some Western Turks resemble Balkan people but Turkey in general is a mixture of West Asian, Middle Eastern and European elements so it would not be welcome by any ethnicity in the Balkans.

[Sturmgewehr]

Albos are Greeks that are into goatse and wife beating. Some Western Turks resemble Balkan people but Turkey in general is a mixture of West Asian, Middle Eastern and European elements so it would not be welcome by any ethnicity in the Balkans.

French are English in that case.

[Padre Organtino]

French are English in that case.

More so than they are Turkish. And stop taking everything seriously:p

[Sturmgewehr]

More so than they are Turkish. And stop taking everything seriously:p

oh and you just assumed I took an unsubstantiated not serious claim seriously ????

[Sturmgewehr]

Plus why should the Balkans be Annexed to Turkey when Ottomans were the Aggressors ????

it makes more sense the other way around, and u can discuss it here:

Should Turkey be divided between Greece and be like it was prior to the Turko Mongol Seljuks?? (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=672983#post672983)

[Padre Organtino]

oh and you just assumed I took an unsubstantiated not serious claim seriously ????

Oh well, pardon me, I thought you reply was serious:D

[Sabinae]

No :) Everyone wants to annex one thing or another...

[mymy]

No. Otherwise i will have to immigrate. :coffee:

[Ushtari]

Bozkurt_Karabash is cool

[Mordid]

No. Otherwise i will have to immigrate. :coffee:
Yes, come to Poland please...

[Peyrol]

I am sorry for making this very explicit thread title but this pretty much sums the whole question of the thread. The Balkans have had a sad and violent history of interaction since ancient times, where the anger between distinct ethnic states and empires has often damaged the development of neighbor states. Many unfortunate events have happened there and many state split ups. It is certainly a troubled region that could have progressed further much had it not been for petty ethnic rivalries.

Had a Turkoman power remained there continuosly those petty ethnic rivalries and civil warfares would not exist. With Turkish control there would have not been Kosovo war, there wouldn't be Srebenica, there would not exist hate between such very similarly related people.

In this hypothethic scenario they would not necessarily lose their sovereignity, they could be some sort of West Azerbaycan, but all of them would embrace a Turk nation and ethnicity in the Balkans.


What about, instead, a confederation of all turkish people from Turkey to Kyrghyzistan and Uighur?


Why the re-annexation of Greece and southern slavic peoples? Nonsense. :confused:

[Stegura]

Who'd ever guess that Turkey is so desperate to enter EU...

What would happen if they did! :eek:

http://www.e-grammes.gr/turkman.htm

[mymy]

Yes, come to Poland please...

Thanks for invitation, i'm packing my bags. :D

[LightInDarkness]

What a troll thread. The Balkans = Europid Europeans. Turkey IS NOT.

[Mordid]

Thanks for invitation, i'm packing my bags. :D
Ooohh, I can't wait.
Oh wait, yeah right like that's gonna happen. :D Maybe next time. ;)

[dralos]

why should it be annexed,to avoid war or whatelse?first this isn't going to solve anything but just bring more hate and destruction and probably the end of turkey and ww3.is it so hard for us to try to live peacefully,i guess it is bcs afterall we wouldn't making silly threads like this if we were just a bit smart and not thinking all the time about war.and my last reason is a bit silly but i don't want to see my beautiful girls mix with all kinds of people(this is kinda racy but i can't help it,it's the balkanian inside of me LOL)

[Peyrol]

Why not a "Megas Hellas"? It would have a more historical sense.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_07ZE5biJmYg/Sn__t20QFmI/AAAAAAAABjw/nKlIRtOOmdY/s640/Greater+Greece+II.GIF

[Mordid]

Balkan je Balkan, no one's gonna take them away.

[Peyrol]

Should Italy return in this way?

http://lanostrastoria.corriere.it/apogeo-impero-romano.jpg

[Minesweeper]

Turkey's been working on it for decades.

In fact they don't even hide their intentions anymore .

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

Should Italy return in this way?

http://lanostrastoria.corriere.it/apogeo-impero-romano.jpg

Well, That "old Italy" had consequences, namely countries like Romania, France, Spain, Portugal which were not "Latin before". The plan I want to make is not to make the Balkans permanently administrated by Turkey but create a Turkish state with Balkan Tatar ethnicity where all Balkan peoples would be united, but independent from Turkey if they want to remain that way.

[Adrian]

This is the most valuable contribution from Turks, here in Balkan.

http://www.turkeytravelplanner.com/AssetsTurkey/Food/HumongousDoner.jpg

[Gaztelu]

No

[Peyrol]

Well, That "old Italy" had consequences, namely countries like Romania, France, Spain, Portugal which were not "Latin before". The plan I want to make is not to make the Balkans permanently administrated by Turkey but create a Turkish state with Balkan Tatar ethnicity where all Balkan peoples would be united, but independent from Turkey if they want to remain that way.

In this case, you need more pan-turkish leaders like Nursultan Nazarbayev than the anti-Zyonist/ anti greek/ anti armenian /anti Mickey Mouse Tayyip Erdogan.

[dralos]

i haven't seen a single one of that in my birthcity

[Adrian]

i haven't seen a single one of that in my birthcity

There are 3-4 turkish fast food's in Prishtina. Turks are employed, not owners!

[poiuytrewq0987]

Should Italy return in this way?

http://lanostrastoria.corriere.it/apogeo-impero-romano.jpg

or this:

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/4079/italye.png

[Ar-Man]

In your dreams !!!!! :rip:
Justice will be done, and it's Turkey that will be divided, and those lands will be given back to the rightful native owners!!!:richter:

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

In your dreams !!!!! :rip:
Justice will be done, and it's Turkey that will be divided, and those lands will be given back to the rightful native owners!!!:richter:

I would accept giving my land to Urartians or Hurrians but definately not any of you.

[Sylvanus]

Should Hungary be annexed back to Turkey? :D

http://www.csobancvar.hu/ma_files/fegyverbemutato.jpg

[poiuytrewq0987]

qNe2diMkInw

ROMA ABOVE ALL

ROMA IS ETERNAL

UNIFICATION OF ITALY AND BALKANS IS DESTINED

FUCK OFF TURKS

BALKANS IS ITALY

BALKANITES ARE ROMANS

GREEKS ARE ROMAN

AND SO ARE THE MACEDONIANS

AND SO ARE THE SERBIANS

AND SO ARE THE BULGARIANS

AND SO ARE THE CROATIANS

AND SO ARE THE SLOVENIANS

AND SO ARE THE DACIANIANS

AND SO ARE THE BOSNIANS

AND SO ARE THE ALBANIANS

AND SO ARE THE MONTENEGRINS

AVE ROMA

HERE WE ARE, WAITING FOR YOU TO COME HOME TO US

AVE ROMA

HERE WE ARE

AVE ROMA

FOR THE GLORY OF ROMA!

[poiuytrewq0987]

qNe2diMkInw

ROMA ABOVE ALL

ROMA IS ETERNAL

UNIFICATION OF ITALY AND BALKANS IS DESTINED

FUCK OFF TURKS

BALKANS IS ITALY

BALKANITES ARE ROMANS

GREEKS ARE ROMAN

AND SO ARE THE MACEDONIANS

AND SO ARE THE SERBIANS

AND SO ARE THE BULGARIANS

AND SO ARE THE CROATIANS

AND SO ARE THE SLOVENIANS

AND SO ARE THE DACIANIANS

AND SO ARE THE BOSNIANS

AND SO ARE THE ALBANIANS

AND SO ARE THE MONTENEGRINS

AVE ROMA

HERE WE ARE, WAITING FOR YOU TO COME HOME TO US

AVE ROMA

HERE WE ARE

AVE ROMA

FOR THE GLORY OF ROMA!

[Joe McCarthy]

I am sorry for making this very explicit thread title but this pretty much sums the whole question of the thread. The Balkans have had a sad and violent history of interaction since ancient times, where the anger between distinct ethnic states and empires has often damaged the development of neighbor states. Many unfortunate events have happened there and many state split ups. It is certainly a troubled region that could have progressed further much had it not been for petty ethnic rivalries.

Had a Turkoman power remained there continuosly those petty ethnic rivalries and civil warfares would not exist. With Turkish control there would have not been Kosovo war, there wouldn't be Srebenica, there would not exist hate between such very similarly related people.

In this hypothethic scenario they would not necessarily lose their sovereignity, they could be some sort of West Azerbaycan, but all of them would embrace a Turk nation and ethnicity in the Balkans.

It is true that a benefit of Ottoman rule in the Balkans was to bring a certain peace - but it was the peace of tyrants.

Nowadays Turkey isn't needed. The Western presence fulfills its function without the baggage the Ottomans brought.

[Zephyr]

Every empire has failed. It's time to give some unsuspected country a chance to rule the world, e.g. Estonia.

Europa je Eesti.

[Ar-Man]

I would accept giving my land to Urartians or Hurrians but definately not any of you.

The word Urartu and all other words, names connected with the history of Urartian kingdom were decripted by one single scientist. His name is Piotrovski. He was an arceologist , and had great interest in Urartian history. But his research of the Urartian inscriptions in Erebuny, Rusakhinili and other Urartian sites was concluded under the control of Communist Party Central Committee of Moscow(Armenia was Armenian SSR at that time). During his research he factually decripted only the consonants of Urartian language. So the word "urartu" was initially decripted as "r-r-t", the word "erebuny" as "r-b-n" and so on. If we put the right sonants (in opinion of many present day Armenian scientists) we'll have "a-r-a-r-a-t" instead of "r-r-t" and "e-r-e-b-a-n" instead of "r-b-n". This system applies to a big number of Urartian words decripted by Piotrovski. And there was a reason to wrongly decript those words. Because in case he had done it in the right way, one tiny part of the USSR would become some 600-700 years older and the single successor of a rich culture. The result was that in the section of Urartu in the "History of the USSR" textbook ended with this phrase-"The Georgian, Azerbajani and Armenian fraternal peoples descended from Urartians". Georgian language belongs to the Caucasian family and has some relation to Svanetian, Lezgin languages but no relation to Armenian. Azeri or actually karakoyunlu existence happened to the region only in 13-th century in as a result of migration. The fall of Urartian kingdom dates 590 BC. The "Anabasis" of Ksenophon (Greek historian) gives a detailed describtion of the Yervandouny Armenian kingdom in 401 BC. And the most important, he writes that the people of that kingdom were speaking one language and had the same traditions of agriculture, music etc. If Urartians and Armenians were not the very same people, Yervandouny(Ortonid) kingdom could not develop to an integrated state like that.

“Yet the Hurrians did not disappear from history. Away to the North in their Armenian homeland, they entrenched themselves and build up the kingdom of Urartu.”
* Jacquetta Hawkes, “The First Great Civilizations,” London, 1967

The kingdom's native name was Biainili, also spelt Biaineli, (from which is derived the Armenian toponym Վան "Van") I. M. Diakonoff, "Hurro-Urartian Borrowings in Old Armenian." Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 105, No. 4 (Oct. – Dec., 1985), pp. 597–603

but prior to the 8th century BC, they also called their now united kingdom "Nairi" Chahin, Mack The Kingdom of Armenia. London: RoutledgeCurzon, 2001, pp. 71ff. ISBN 0-7007-1452-9.

"The Nairi, an Iron Age people of the Van area, are sometimes considered related or identical" Piotrovsky, Boris B. The Ancient Civilization of Urartu. New York: Cowles Book Co., Inc., 1969.

"by the order of Darius the Great of Persia, the country referred to as Urartu in Assyrian is called Arminiya in Old Persian and Harminuia in Elamite." Skjaervo, Prods Oktor, "An Introduction to Old Persian", Harvard 2002

"Urartu maintained its independence and power, going through a mere dynastic change, as a local Armenian dynasty (later to be called the Orontids) overthrew the ruling family with the help of the Median army. Ancient sources support the latter version: Xenophon, for example, states that Armenia, ruled by an Orontid king, was not conquered until the reign of Median king Astyages (585– 550 BC) – long after Median invasion of the late 7th century BC." Xenophon.Cyropedia. 3.7. Translated by Henry Graham Dakyns.
"Igor Diakonoff accepts a Hurro-Urartian etymology as plausible for thirteen lexemes in Old Armenian" John A. C. Greppin; I. M. Diakonoff, Some Effects of the Hurro-Urartian People and Their Languages upon the Earliest Armenians, Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 111, No. 4 (Oct., 1991), pp. 720-730

And the most important part, there was never proved that there was some Prygo-Armenian migration from Balkans, and especially a conquest. Behistunian Inscription says very clearly RRT(Ur-ar-tu) in Assyrian is Arminiya in old Persian.

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

The word Urartu and all other words, names connected with the history of Urartian kingdom were decripted by one single scientist. His name is Piotrovski. He was an arceologist , and had great interest in Urartian history. But his research of the Urartian inscriptions in Erebuny, Rusakhinili and other Urartian sites was concluded under the control of Communist Party Central Committee of Moscow(Armenia was Armenian SSR at that time). During his research he factually decripted only the consonants of Urartian language. So the word "urartu" was initially decripted as "r-r-t", the word "erebuny" as "r-b-n" and so on. If we put the right sonants (in opinion of many present day Armenian scientists) we'll have "a-r-a-r-a-t" instead of "r-r-t" and "e-r-e-b-a-n" instead of "r-b-n". This system applies to a big number of Urartian words decripted by Piotrovski. And there was a reason to wrongly decript those words. Because in case he had done it in the right way, one tiny part of the USSR would become some 600-700 years older and the single successor of a rich culture. The result was that in the section of Urartu in the "History of the USSR" textbook ended with this phrase-"The Georgian, Azerbajani and Armenian fraternal peoples descended from Urartians". Georgian language belongs to the Caucasian family and has some relation to Svanetian, Lezgin languages but no relation to Armenian. Azeri or actually karakoyunlu existence happened to the region only in 13-th century in as a result of migration. The fall of Urartian kingdom dates 590 BC. The "Anabasis" of Ksenophon (Greek historian) gives a detailed describtion of the Yervandouny Armenian kingdom in 401 BC. And the most important, he writes that the people of that kingdom were speaking one language and had the same traditions of agriculture, music etc. If Urartians and Armenians were not the very same people, Yervandouny(Ortonid) kingdom could not develop to an integrated state like that.

“Yet the Hurrians did not disappear from history. Away to the North in their Armenian homeland, they entrenched themselves and build up the kingdom of Urartu.”
* Jacquetta Hawkes, “The First Great Civilizations,” London, 1967

The kingdom's native name was Biainili, also spelt Biaineli, (from which is derived the Armenian toponym Վան "Van") I. M. Diakonoff, "Hurro-Urartian Borrowings in Old Armenian." Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 105, No. 4 (Oct. – Dec., 1985), pp. 597–603

but prior to the 8th century BC, they also called their now united kingdom "Nairi" Chahin, Mack The Kingdom of Armenia. London: RoutledgeCurzon, 2001, pp. 71ff. ISBN 0-7007-1452-9.

"The Nairi, an Iron Age people of the Van area, are sometimes considered related or identical" Piotrovsky, Boris B. The Ancient Civilization of Urartu. New York: Cowles Book Co., Inc., 1969.

"by the order of Darius the Great of Persia, the country referred to as Urartu in Assyrian is called Arminiya in Old Persian and Harminuia in Elamite." Skjaervo, Prods Oktor, "An Introduction to Old Persian", Harvard 2002

"Urartu maintained its independence and power, going through a mere dynastic change, as a local Armenian dynasty (later to be called the Orontids) overthrew the ruling family with the help of the Median army. Ancient sources support the latter version: Xenophon, for example, states that Armenia, ruled by an Orontid king, was not conquered until the reign of Median king Astyages (585– 550 BC) – long after Median invasion of the late 7th century BC." Xenophon.Cyropedia. 3.7. Translated by Henry Graham Dakyns.
"Igor Diakonoff accepts a Hurro-Urartian etymology as plausible for thirteen lexemes in Old Armenian" John A. C. Greppin; I. M. Diakonoff, Some Effects of the Hurro-Urartian People and Their Languages upon the Earliest Armenians, Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 111, No. 4 (Oct., 1991), pp. 720-730

Can you even understand what you posted? Using that same logic also Byzantines didn't disappear from history, "they just became turks" and western armenians didn't disappear from history "they just became turks". Armenians are not Urartians nor Hurrians, it's senseless to think that. As much as an Iraqi exclusively calling himself a Sumerian.

[Ar-Man]

Can you even understand what you posted? Using that same logic also Byzantines didn't disappear from history, "they just became turks" and western armenians didn't disappear from history "they just became turks". Armenians are not Urartians nor Hurrians, it's senseless to think that. As much as an Iraqi exclusively calling himself a Sumerian.

Turkish Language is alien for that Region, when Armenian is a Native one. And Ortonid Dynasty is the continuation of so called Urartean Dynasty. Read what I have posted!

And show me one example of Testimony where it says "Byzantium in this language = Turkey in the other" !

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

Turkish Language is alien for that Region, when Armenian is a Native one. And Ortonid Dynasty is the continuation of so called Urartean Dynasty. Read what I have posted!

Armenian language is foreign to the region as well. It came either from the northern steppes or from the Balkans. IE languages are not native to West Asia.




And show me one example of Testimony where it says "Byzantium in this language = Turkey in the other" !

Turkey = Continuation of Ottoman Empire = Continuation of Byzantium

[AFC_Lad]

The word Urartu and all other words, names connected with the history of Urartian kingdom were decripted by one single scientist. His name is Piotrovski. He was an arceologist , and had great interest in Urartian history. But his research of the Urartian inscriptions in Erebuny, Rusakhinili and other Urartian sites was concluded under the control of Communist Party Central Committee of Moscow(Armenia was Armenian SSR at that time). During his research he factually decripted only the consonants of Urartian language. So the word "urartu" was initially decripted as "r-r-t", the word "erebuny" as "r-b-n" and so on. If we put the right sonants (in opinion of many present day Armenian scientists) we'll have "a-r-a-r-a-t" instead of "r-r-t" and "e-r-e-b-a-n" instead of "r-b-n". This system applies to a big number of Urartian words decripted by Piotrovski. And there was a reason to wrongly decript those words. Because in case he had done it in the right way, one tiny part of the USSR would become some 600-700 years older and the single successor of a rich culture. The result was that in the section of Urartu in the "History of the USSR" textbook ended with this phrase-"The Georgian, Azerbajani and Armenian fraternal peoples descended from Urartians". Georgian language belongs to the Caucasian family and has some relation to Svanetian, Lezgin languages but no relation to Armenian. Azeri or actually karakoyunlu existence happened to the region only in 13-th century in as a result of migration. The fall of Urartian kingdom dates 590 BC. The "Anabasis" of Ksenophon (Greek historian) gives a detailed describtion of the Yervandouny Armenian kingdom in 401 BC. And the most important, he writes that the people of that kingdom were speaking one language and had the same traditions of agriculture, music etc. If Urartians and Armenians were not the very same people, Yervandouny(Ortonid) kingdom could not develop to an integrated state like that.

“Yet the Hurrians did not disappear from history. Away to the North in their Armenian homeland, they entrenched themselves and build up the kingdom of Urartu.”
* Jacquetta Hawkes, “The First Great Civilizations,” London, 1967

The kingdom's native name was Biainili, also spelt Biaineli, (from which is derived the Armenian toponym Վան "Van") I. M. Diakonoff, "Hurro-Urartian Borrowings in Old Armenian." Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 105, No. 4 (Oct. – Dec., 1985), pp. 597–603

but prior to the 8th century BC, they also called their now united kingdom "Nairi" Chahin, Mack The Kingdom of Armenia. London: RoutledgeCurzon, 2001, pp. 71ff. ISBN 0-7007-1452-9.

"The Nairi, an Iron Age people of the Van area, are sometimes considered related or identical" Piotrovsky, Boris B. The Ancient Civilization of Urartu. New York: Cowles Book Co., Inc., 1969.

"by the order of Darius the Great of Persia, the country referred to as Urartu in Assyrian is called Arminiya in Old Persian and Harminuia in Elamite." Skjaervo, Prods Oktor, "An Introduction to Old Persian", Harvard 2002

"Urartu maintained its independence and power, going through a mere dynastic change, as a local Armenian dynasty (later to be called the Orontids) overthrew the ruling family with the help of the Median army. Ancient sources support the latter version: Xenophon, for example, states that Armenia, ruled by an Orontid king, was not conquered until the reign of Median king Astyages (585– 550 BC) – long after Median invasion of the late 7th century BC." Xenophon.Cyropedia. 3.7. Translated by Henry Graham Dakyns.
"Igor Diakonoff accepts a Hurro-Urartian etymology as plausible for thirteen lexemes in Old Armenian" John A. C. Greppin; I. M. Diakonoff, Some Effects of the Hurro-Urartian People and Their Languages upon the Earliest Armenians, Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 111, No. 4 (Oct., 1991), pp. 720-730

And the most important part, there was never proved that there was some Prygo-Armenian migration from Balkans, and especially a conquest. Behistunian Inscription says very clearly RRT(Ur-ar-tu) in Assyrian is Arminiya in old Persian.


Interesting stuff.. see this is the type of stuff i want Armenians to post, credible sources.. all very interesting.. nice one mate :thumb001:

[iNird]

Eh no. The Balkans was the most undeveloped part of Europe during it's time. Some historians have argued that the living standards in the Balkans up to the 17th century or so was higher than in Western Europe but towards the end of the empire the whole area was the poorest in Europe. Turkey is strongly emerging as a superpower and I advocate good relations with them but anything more is not needed.

[Nairi]

but prior to the 8th century BC, they also called their now united kingdom "Nairi" Chahin, Mack The Kingdom of Armenia. London: RoutledgeCurzon, 2001, pp. 71ff. ISBN 0-7007-1452-9.

"The Nairi, an Iron Age people of the Van area, are sometimes considered related or identical" Piotrovsky, Boris B. The Ancient Civilization of Urartu. New York: Cowles Book Co., Inc., 1969.



I hear you, I hear you :D

The name "Nairi" comes from Nairi confederation of Armenian Highand which existed before Ararat Kingdom (deliberatley wrongly desiphered as Urartu from RRT by Soviet regime.)
In Armenian poetry Armenia is called "Land of Nairi", also we, Armenain girls in poetry are called "Nairian girls"...and recently Nairi cognac won the first place in Europe :D

[Armin]

Armenian language is foreign to the region as well. It came either from the northern steppes or from the Balkans. IE languages are not native to West Asia.

No, it did not, the Armenian language is the Armenic branch of the Aryano-Greco-Armenic (Collin Renfrew, Robert Drews, Quentin Atkinson, Russell Gray, Vyacheslav Ivanov, Tamaz Gamkrelidze etc.) that emerged from Armenian Highland and Anatolia. It is related to languages like the Indo-European Hittite (and other Indo-European Anatolian languages such as Luwian, Lydian etc.).


http://www.oocities.org/paris/leftbank/6507/illustration130.jpg

http://www.oocities.org/paris/leftbank/6507/illustration122.jpg


This inference is supported by what is known about the portion of the Indo-European community that remained after the Anatolian family had broken away. From that community came the languages that persisted into written history. The first to branch off was the Greek-Armenian-Indo-lranian language community. It must have begun to do so in the fourth millennium B.C. because by the middle of the third millennium B.C. the community was already dividing into two groups, namely, the Indo-lranian and the Greek-Armenian. Tablets in the Hattusas archives show that by the middle of the second millennium B.C. the Indo-lranian group had given rise to a language spoken in the Mitanni kingdom on the southeast frontier of Anatolia that was already different from ancient Indian (commonly called Sanskrit) and ancient Iranian. Cretan Mycenaean texts from the same eras as Mitanni, deciphered in the early 1950's by the British scholars Michael G. F. Ventris and John Chadwick, fumed out to be in a previously unknown dialect of Greek. All these languages had gone their separate ways from Armenian.

http://www.oocities.org/paris/leftbank/6507/chronicle120.html

[Armin]

Double post.

[Ar-Man]

Armenian language is foreign to the region as well. It came either from the northern steppes or from the Balkans. IE languages are not native to West Asia.

I know many Oxford Teachers & researchers with Phd degree that will disagree with you :rolleyes:





Turkey = Continuation of Ottoman Empire = Continuation of Byzantium

There's nothing more different than Orthodox Byzantium & Muslim Ottomans.

There's no blood continuity in the Royal dynasty.
There's 0 cultural continuation.

1.In the other hand, Armenians are mentioned in AH way before the "Urartu" & "Hurrians", ie in the Inscription of Akkadian Emperor Naram Sim.
2.Secondly Ortonids are the direct Descendants of Araratians Kings, and not some kind of conquerors.
3.Araratian Armenian kingdom & Ortonid Armenia had the same cultural continuity, as I already mentioned in my previous post.


Sow there's nothing common with the case of alien Ottomans.

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

I know many Oxford Teachers & researchers with Phd degree that will disagree with you :rolleyes:


It's not important if Santa Claus disagrees with me if u can't even explain the reasons of why I'm wrong.





There's nothing more different than Orthodox Byzantium & Muslim Ottomans.

There's no blood continuity in the Royal dynasty.
There's 0 cultural continuation.

That shit is just manmade.



1.In the other hand, Armenians are mentioned in AH way before the "Urartu" & "Hurrians", ie in the Inscription of Akkadian Emperor Naram Sim.
2.Secondly Ortonids are the direct Descendants of Araratians Kings, and not some kind of conquerors.
3.Araratian Armenian kingdom & Ortonid Armenia had the same cultural continuity, as I already mentioned in my previous post.


Sow there's nothing common with the case of alien Ottomans.

Armenians are not Hurrians or Urartians. Armenians did not speak Hurrian or Urartian. Armenians did not practice Hurrian or Urartian language. Armenian architecture is unlike of that of Hurrians or Urartian. So even if they have some obscure mention of your "ar" term it's completely irrelevant.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I know many Oxford Teachers & researchers with Phd degree that will disagree with you :rolleyes:





There's nothing more different than Orthodox Byzantium & Muslim Ottomans.

There's no blood continuity in the Royal dynasty.
There's 0 cultural continuation.

1.In the other hand, Armenians are mentioned in AH way before the "Urartu" & "Hurrians", ie in the Inscription of Akkadian Emperor Naram Sim.
2.Secondly Ortonids are the direct Descendants of Araratians Kings, and not some kind of conquerors.
3.Araratian Armenian kingdom & Ortonid Armenia had the same cultural continuity, as I already mentioned in my previous post.


Sow there's nothing common with the case of alien Ottomans.

Actually, if I remember my history correctly, the Trebizond royal family actually married into the Ottoman royal family.

[Hess]

Millions of brave men fought against all odds against the saracen invaders. Let's keep their memory alive :)

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

Millions of brave men fought against all odds against the saracen invaders. Let's keep their memory alive :)

Albanians do it very well praying the kind of Islam we gave them.

[morski]

This is how I like turkey:
http://www.matadorrecords.com/matablog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/turkey_540.jpg

[Sturmgewehr]

Albanians do it very well praying the kind of Islam we gave them.

Coming from insecure Ottomans who liked to refer to themselves as Romans and didn't have the dignity to make their own flag.

Posers.

It was the Muslim ALbanians who kicked ur ass out of Albania in the end.

Still using the Islam argument even though u got pounded hard on that argument ?

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

Coming from insecure Ottomans who liked to refer to themselves as Romans and didn't have the dignity to make their own flag.

Posers.

It was the Muslim ALbanians who kicked ur ass out of Albania in the end.

Still using the Islam argument even though u got pounded hard on that argument ?

The only thing that got pwned is called Shqipetaria:
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/2343/turks.jpg

if this is not getting pwned by the whole forum then what it is?

[Sturmgewehr]

The only thing that got pwned is called Shqipetaria:
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/2343/turks.jpg

if this is not getting pwned by the whole forum then what it is?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/4645967670_561e71ce9a.jpg

Funny how after failing to make a case for urself in every possible way in all the discussions you opened and after getting every single one of ur ridiculous arguments refuted you are left in the end with that, what is even funnier is how you try to make urself feel better with something as meaningless as that.

You can go on pathetically jerking off on that and think it makes you more credible.

[Rron]

Just ignore that turkish germ

[Sturmgewehr]

Just ignore that turkish germ

Won't happen, he is way too funny :D

[Incal]

I don't see the reason, most balkan countries (with the exception of Albania and FYROM maybe) have better living standards than Turkey. Why go back?

[Wanderlust]

Albanians do it very well praying the kind of Islam we gave them.

Both your avatar and sig were provocative so I removed them. For all I know the Albanian members were always very kind to you and even befriended you, I don't understand why you're doing this. Please pick something else.

[Drawing-slim]

Both your avatar and sig were provocative so I removed them. For all I know the Albanian members were always very kind to you and even befriended you, I don't understand why you're doing this. Please pick something else.
Eventhough i dont think i ever replied or ever interacted with your posts on this forum directly, there's a reason i did put you first on my list Of members i would have diner with:)

Your power of observation is spot on:D
I didnt thank your post cuz i dont want karabush to take it as a compliment, as If bagging to be gentle to us, eventhough i do find him intertaining and likable member nevertheless.
Despite his views on us and vice- versa, who cares:d

[Ar-Man]

It's not important if Santa Claus disagrees with me if u can't even explain the reasons of why I'm wrong.
That shit is just manmade.
Armenians are not Hurrians or Urartians. Armenians did not speak Hurrian or Urartian. Armenians did not practice Hurrian or Urartian language. Armenian architecture is unlike of that of Hurrians or Urartian. So even if they have some obscure mention of your "ar" term it's completely irrelevant.

I know that is the habit of your people to involve Santa in ethnological discussions as well Paris Hilton in Quantum Physics but the rest of The World works & thinks otherwise!

It's useless to speak with somebody with identity crisis, who's nation is just an artificial as the mannequin in the cloth shops. Your people will understand one day that invented empty ideologies are not enough to create a Nation, it's a long process guided by the Nature.

Here's a dictionary showing the common IE words of so called "Urartean" and Armenian languages.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/58967905/Urartian-Armenian-Parallel-Words

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

I know that is the habit of your people to involve Santa in ethnological discussions as well Paris Hilton in Quantum Physics but the rest of The World works & thinks otherwise!

Useless ramble



It's useless to speak with somebody with identity crisis, who's nation is just an artificial as the mannequin in the cloth shops. Your people will understand one day that invented empty ideologies are not enough to create a Nation, it's a long process guided by the Nature.

Identity crisis u say? Identity crisis to me is identifying with pre IE urartians when you're clearly different to them, have different architectre to them. Identity crisis for me is putting "Ar" everywhere as it somehow was a pass or Aryaness. Identity crisis for me is saying Turkish people turned you into wogs by stealing blond children.



Here's a dictionary showing the common IE words of so called "Urartean" and Armenian languages.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/58967905/Urartian-Armenian-Parallel-Words

That's obvious, as some words remained even in Turkish but Vainakh languages are actually closer than Hurrian and Urartian than Armenian.

[Ar-Man]

Identity crisis u say? Identity crisis to me is identifying with pre IE urartians when you're clearly different to them, have different architectre to them. Identity crisis for me is putting "Ar" everywhere as it somehow was a pass or Aryaness. Identity crisis for me is saying Turkish people turned you into wogs by stealing blond children.

You can address your high-scientific facts to UCLA professor V.Ivanov, who was the first from non-Armenians who noticed that the root "AR" have an important role in Armenian language.



That's obvious, as some words remained even in Turkish but Vainakh languages are actually closer than Hurrian and Urartian than Armenian.

It's not some words,it's more than 1000 words of IE origin and not Kartvelian ones.

I suppose you don't want to remember that so called Hurrians of Mitanni were worshiping Armeno-Indo-Iranian gods like Mithra, Varuna, Asvins ....etc.

Thieme, P., The 'Aryan Gods' of the Mitanni Treaties, Journal of the American Oriental Society 80, 301–317 (1960)

Most Importantly archaeologists have attested a striking parallel in the spread to Syria of a distinct pottery type associated with what they call the Kura-Araxes culture, another fact showing that those IE speaking Mitanneans were from AH.

James P. Mallory, "Kuro-Araxes Culture", Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture, Fitzroy Dearborn, 1997.

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

You can address your high-scientific facts to UCLA professor V.Ivanov, who was the first from non-Armenians who noticed that the root "AR" have an important role in Armenian language.

Sure, tell Ivan to join this forum.




It's not some words,it's more than 1000 words of IE origin and not Kartvelian ones.

You didn't understand the point.

[Sultan Osman]

2_Dzq_mKhok

[Rron]

2_Dzq_mKhok
Only in your dreams

[Damião de Góis]

Why is Lisbon, of all places, turkish in that video? :D

[Mosov]

Turkish nationalistic wet dreams....if Turkey dares attack or annex Europe or parts of it once again, they should be bombed to the stone age....

[Insuperable]

what a crazy thread on European forum
well if they try anything I will have to follow what my ancestors did
throw Turks in trenches:thumb001:

although I do not consider Croatia to be part of Balkans

[Minesweeper]

Turkish nationalistic wet dreams....if Turkey dares attack or annex Europe or parts of it once again, they should be bombed to the stone age....

And who will bomb them?

Turks have a goal, a new and Ottoman Empire. In the case of Balkans that idea is very realistic and possible, because:

1. Balkanic peoples are divided.
2. Balkanic armies are weak and poorly equipped.
3. Balkanic demographic picture is catastrophic.
4. Economies are devastated
5. There are lots of local muslims who are bigger Turkish nationalists than Turks themselves.

If I were a Turk, I would support the idea of a new Empire, opportunity is too good to be missed.

[Padre Organtino]

And who will bomb them?

Turks have a goal, a new and Ottoman Empire. In the case of Balkans that idea is very realistic and possible, because:

1. Balkanic people are divided.
2. Balkanic armies are weak and poorly equipped.
3. Balkanic demographic picture is catastrophic.
4. Economies are devastated
5. There are lots of local muslims who are bigger Turkish nationalists than Turks themselves.

If I were a Turk, I would support the idea of a new Empire, opportunity is too good to be missed.

Turkey will be bombed into stone age if it really decides to start offensive operation on Balkans.

[Mosov]

And who will bomb them?

Turks have a goal, a new and Ottoman Empire. In the case of Balkans that idea is very realistic and possible, because:

1. Balkanic peoples are divided.
2. Balkanic armies are weak and poorly equipped.
3. Balkanic demographic picture is catastrophic.
4. Economies are devastated
5. There are lots of local muslims who are bigger Turkish nationalists than Turks themselves.

If I were a Turk, I would support the idea of a new Empire, opportunity is too good to be missed.

Turks can shove its new goal in you know where. No one is going to allow Turks to create a new Ottoman Empire, like Russia or Iran, and also further along European powers. If they get out of hand and attempt to create such an empire by force, they will need to be bombed to the stone age and by doing so do Europe and humanity a favour.

[Treffie]

Why is Lisbon, of all places, turkish in that video? :D

Not just Lisbon. There are random red splodges everywhere :p

[Racial Observer 1814]

No way! Is bad enough they got Constantinople.

[Insuperable]

Turks can shove its new goal in you know where. No one is going to allow Turks to create a new Ottoman Empire, like Russia or Iran, and also further along European powers. If they get out of hand and attempt to create such an empire by force, they will need to be bombed to the stone age and by doing so do Europe and humanity a favour.

the problem is that nobody cares about Balkan loooooooool

[Mosov]

No way! Is bad enough they got Constantinople.

It should be returned to its rightful owner. Constantinople remains under occupation. Most vivid sign is the beautiful Hagia Sofia that was converted to Mosque...

[Minesweeper]

Turkey will be bombed into stone age if it really decides to start offensive operation on Balkans.

I'll tell you something, their invasion does not necessarily mean military offensive.

For example, we are being bombarded with Turkish TV series and shows in the last two years. From a single show back then it spread like a disease and now we have at least 20 of them on various TV chanels, the newest is a TV series called Suleiman the Magnificent. :rolleyes:

I consider this to be the first step, the next step is a Turkish military garrison in recently abandoned(by Americans) military camp Bondstil in Kosovo.

[Mosov]

the problem is that nobody cares about Balkan loooooooool

that doesn't mean major powers will stand by if Turkey tries to fullfill its nationalistic wet dreams.

[Damião de Góis]

Not just Lisbon. There are random red splodges everywhere :p

I tought the other places had turkish communities. There is none in Lisbon

[Mosov]

I'll tell you something, their invasion does not necessarily mean military offensive.

For example, we are being bombarded with Turkish TV series and shows in the last two years. From a single show back then it spread like a disease and now we have at least 20 of them on various TV chanels, the newest is a TV series called Suleiman the Magnificent. :rolleyes:

I consider this to be the first step, the next step is a Turkish military garrison in recently abandoned(by Americans) military camp Bondstil in Kosovo.

That's disgusting....Muslim Bosnians/Albanians are Proxy Turks so be careful of them, they will try to infiltrate your country....

[Insuperable]

that doesn't mean major powers will stand by if Turkey tries to fullfill its nationalistic wet dreams.

they will probably help because they would not want a Turkish empire as their neighbour and thats it if you ask me

[Minesweeper]

That's disgusting....Muslim Bosnians/Albanians are Proxy Turks so be careful of them, they will try to infiltrate your country....

They are usually open Turkish nationalists and bigger Turks than Anatolians. Especially Bosnians.

[Rron]

edit

[Insuperable]

They are usually open Turkish nationalists and bigger Turks than Anatolians. Especially Bosnians.

I remember when one time Croatia was playing against Turkey on Euro Bosnians
were wearing Turkish outfits loooool

[rashka]

I think Constantinople (istanbul-turkified word) should be annexed but I highly doubt that would ever happen. Only because language is what binds people together. If the majority there speak Turkish then there is no way that that part would be annexed.

[Sturmgewehr]

They are usually open Turkish nationalists and bigger Turks than Anatolians. Especially Bosnians.

This is the definition of BIG FAT LIE :thumb001:

[Onur]

A
Turks have a goal, a new and Ottoman Empire. In the case of Balkans that idea is very realistic and possible

If I were a Turk, I would support the idea of a new Empire, opportunity is too good to be missed.
Tell me a single reason of why any country would invade Balkans?

Do you have oil or gas? Nope, only gas you have is your fart.
hardworking people that we can abuse? Nope, laziest people on planet, i.e. Greeks.
money, gold? Nope, except the gold jewelery of the gypsies.
vibrant and established economy? Absolutely not.

Which one you have? or do you have anything at all? Just tell me a single viable reason pls


we are being bombarded with Turkish TV series and shows in the last two years. From a single show back then it spread like a disease and now we have at least 20 of them on various TV chanels, the newest is a TV series called Suleiman the Magnificent. :rolleyes:
Don't watch it then. I am Turkish and i don't, i never watched any of it, ever. You all stick to the tv for the Turkish series, thats why you have 20 Turkish series onair at the same time but now you come up and complain about it.


They are usually open Turkish nationalists and bigger Turks than Anatolians. Especially Bosnians.
If thats the case then it should be because you hate them all and you call them as Turks despite the fact that they are your cousins and you speak same language. You are calling them as Turks for a century and your hero, Mladic was calling people in Srebrenica as Turks right before he ordered to kill them all.

You know what, if everyone in your country would call you as "Africans" for a century, trust me you would start to believe that you are an African in the end. You do this to them and you complain about this now?

I think the religious dogmas, false indoctrination of your church and divisive fascism supported by your politicians poisoned Balkan people`s mind. You became so divided that you even killed your cousins, kinsmen just because you believe a different religion. I believe Balkan people are hopeless case.

Thats why the Croatian member here says "I think Croatia is not a balkan country" because you all filled the place with hate and now even yourselves are trying to escape from your own pollution, collectively created by you again.

[rashka]

Tell me a single reason of why any country would invade Balkans?

Do you have oil or gas? money, gold?
vibrant and established economy?Which one you have? or do you have anything at all? Just tell me a single viable reason pls


Serbia/Montenegro/Bosnia have a lot of natural UNEXPLOITED resources.

[Padre Organtino]

Tell me a single reason of why any country would invade Balkans?

Do you have oil or gas? Nope, only gas you have is your fart.
hardworking people that we can abuse? Nope, laziest people on planet, i.e. Greeks.
money, gold? Nope, except the gold jewelery of the gypsies.
vibrant and established economy? Absolutely not.

Which one you have? or do you have anything at all? Just tell me a single viable reason pls


I can name you a simple reason why Turks would want to invade Balkans: they are more developed than you guys even after a decade of destructive wars. Unsurprisingly the most developed part of your country is the one that recieved a heavy input of settlers and refugees from Balkans.

[Sturmgewehr]

I can name you a simple reason why Turks would want to invade Balkans: they are more developed than you guys even after a decade of destructive wars. Unsurprisingly the most developed part of your country is the one that recieved a heavy input of settlers and refugees from Balkans.

Really ????

I don't think so, let's see some stats.

The only country that could have higher standards than Turkey is Slovenia the rest of them, Albania, Macedonia, Serbia, Bulgaria even Greece are in a deplorable situation

[Padre Organtino]

Really ????

I don't think so, let's see some stats.

The only country that could have higher standards than Turkey is Slovenia the rest of them, Albania, Macedonia, Serbia, Bulgaria even Greece are in a deplorable situation

Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania are better thna Turkey in the economy department.

[Sturmgewehr]

Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania are better thna Turkey in the economy department.

No they are not, Croatia maybe is going that way but the rest are not.

Care to explain in what sense is Serbia, Romania and Bulgaria more developed than Turkey ??? Croatia Included.

[Padre Organtino]

No they are not, Croatia maybe is going that way but the rest are not.

Care to explain in what sense is Serbia, Romania and Bulgaria more developed than Turkey ??? Croatia Included.

By GDP per capita for starters.

[Insuperable]

Really ????

I don't think so, let's see some stats.

The only country that could have higher standards than Turkey is Slovenia the rest of them, Albania, Macedonia, Serbia, Bulgaria even Greece are in a deplorable situation

Than why are you so eager to defend Turkey when someone says something directed to Turkey muslim;)

[Sturmgewehr]

By GDP per capita for starters.

Yeah OK, Brunei has a higher GDP per Capita than most of the world countries but that doesn't tell much.

GDP per Capita is only one Indicator, let's see the differences between these countries:


Only Croatia has a higher GDP per Capita than Turkey.

Serbia has lower GDP per capita, so does Bulgaria and so does Romania

You can check it yourself.

https://www.cia.gov

Even though Croatia has a bit higher GDP per Capita than Turkey it is still no match to Turkey, Turkey has a bigger population when compared to Croatia, has a WAY ( 100 Times ) more favorable geographical position, 500% higher rate of real economy growth, in the GDP composition sector they are somewhere close but Turkey will OBVIOUSLY overcome Croatia in a couple of years, Turkey has a lot of Labor force and cheaper labor force whereas Croatia has less and more expensive labor force, Croatia has a 17% Unemplyment rate whereas Turkey has a 10% unemployment rate.

Turkey is rated as the 17th comparison country in the world whereas Croatia as 78th, not talking about their purchasing power where the gap is colossal, their Budgets are not even to compare and so on.

Turkey has a lot of potential way more than Croatia and Turkey is definitely ahead of Croatia, I won't even bother comparing the others.

Turkey's Industry is way more developed and while Croatia has a -3% fall in the industry Turkey has an almost 9% growth in its industry.

[Sturmgewehr]

Than why are you so eager to defend Turkey when someone says something directed to Turkey muslim

How am I defending Turkey, we are discussing facts, you want me to Ignore facts plus this is my field of expertise, I am an Economist, what is wrong with discussing countries' economies.

I am not defending Turks and I am not defending anyone.

You make very little sense.

[rashka]

Population below poverty line: 8.8% (2010 est.) Serbia
Population below poverty line: 12.3% (2008) Slovenia
Population below poverty line: 12.5% (2008 est.) Albania
Population below poverty line: 16.9% (2010) Turkey
Population below poverty line: 17% (2008) Croatia
Population below poverty line: 18.6% (2007 est.) Bosnia and Hercegovina
Population below poverty line: 20% (2009 est.) Greece
Population below poverty line: 21.8% (2008) Bulgaria
Population below poverty line: 25% (2005 est.) Romania
Population below poverty line: 28.7% (2008) Macedonia

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/index.html

[Insuperable]

Yeah OK, Brunei has a higher GDP per Capita than most of the world countries but that doesn't show much.

GDP per Capita is only one Indicator and the difference between.

Only Croatia has a higher GDP per Capita than Turkey.

Serbia has lower GDP per capita, so does Bulgaria and so does Romania

You can check it yourself.

https://www.cia.gov

Even though Croatia has a bit higher GDP per Capita than Turkey it is still no match to Turkey, Turkey has a bigger population when compared to Croatia, has a WAY ( 100 Times ) more favorable geographical position, 500% higher rate of real economy growth, in the GDP composition sector they are somewhere close but Turkey will OBVIOUSLY overcome Croatia in a couple of years, Turkey has a lot of Labor force and cheaper labor force whereas Croatia has less and more expensive labor force, Croatia has a 17% Unemplyment rate whereas Turkey has a 10% unemployment rate.

Turkey is rated as the 17th comparison country in the world whereas Croatia as 78th, not talking about their purchasing power where the gap is colossal, their Budgets are not even to compare and so on.

Turkey has a lot of potential way more than Croatia and Turkey is definitely ahead of Croatia, I won't even bother comparing the others.

Turkey's Industry is way more developed and while Croatia has a -3% fall in the industry Turkey has an almost 9% growth in its industry.

I see you are well informed about Turkey muslim;)

[Sturmgewehr]

Population below poverty line: 8.8% (2010 est.) Serbia


Population below poverty line: 12.3% (2008) Slovenia
Population below poverty line: 12.5% (2008 est.) Albania
Population below poverty line: 16.9% (2010) Turkey
Population below poverty line: 17% (2008) Croatia
Population below poverty line: 18.6% (2007 est.) Bosnia and Hercegovina
Population below poverty line: 20% (2009 est.) Greece
Population below poverty line: 21.8% (2008) Bulgaria
Population below poverty line: 25% (2005 est.) Romania
Population below poverty line: 28.7% (2008) Macedonia

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/index.html

That and GDP are only 2 Indicators, there is a VAST number of Macro Economic indicators.

This doesn't tell much.

[Sturmgewehr]

I see you are well informed about Turkey muslim;)

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/12/15/gallery/yawn-324x205.jpg

[Insuperable]

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/12/15/gallery/yawn-324x205.jpg

lol you did not see wink sign

[Aramis]

They are usually open Turkish nationalists and bigger Turks than Anatolians. Especially Bosnians.

Well no, that's a grose generalisation. Those Bosnians (Bosniaks that is) who support Turkey tend to be indeed bigger turkish nationalist than Turks themselves, but they are simply not the majority among the whole population.
For every Bosnian waving the turkish banner, you'll have at least 9 who'd vehemently refuse to do so.

As for Albanians, I wouldn't know.

[MandM]

this site give a little info about countries in the world and u can compere them to one and other.
http://www.aneki.com/comparison.php?country_1=Turkey&country_2=Croatia

[Sturmgewehr]

lol you did not see wink sign

I am sleepy as u can see :)



this site give a little info about countries in the world and u can compere them to one and other.
http://www.aneki.com/comparison.php?country_1=Turkey&country_2=Croatia

Doesn't tell much.

CIA Factbook is 10 times more reliable.

It shows nothing about Industry, growth and shit like that.

[Onur]

The only country that could have higher standards than Turkey is Slovenia the rest of them, Albania, Macedonia, Serbia, Bulgaria even Greece are in a deplorable situation
You are talking about the development index of a "COUNTRY" but you are looking for a gross domestic product "PER CAPITA" !!!

GDP per capita shows nothing about the development value of a country. If what you did would be right then China and India would be the least developed countries of the world due to high population. China has lower or same GDP per capita than Albania or Georgia, then does it mean China is a less developed than these two?

You have to look at this one for the countries;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29


Anyway, do you know that there are several Turkish businessmen who might possibly buyout whole Slovenia? Do you know that the amount of money flows only in Istanbul is more than Greece`s whole GDP?

[Sturmgewehr]

You are talking about the development index of a "COUNTRY" but you are looking for a gross domestic product "PER CAPITA" !!!

GDP per capita shows nothing about the development value of a country. If what you did would be right then China and India would be the least developed countries of the world due to high population. China has lower or same GDP per capita than Albania or Georgia, then does it mean China is a less developed than these two?

You have to look at this one for the countries;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29


Anyway, do you know that there are several Turkish businessmen who might possibly buyout whole Slovenia? Do you know that the amount of money flows only in Istanbul is more than Greece`s whole GDP?

I already mentioned that in my previous posts.

Go back and read my posts carefully.

[mihaitzateo]

I do not need idiot turks here,if Romania will get some better leaders Romania can give jobs to croatians also,since we are same genetics.Because saxons colonists left Transylvannia and those were 2 million,romanian hebrews left to Israel and those were another milion.
Croatians are better than saxons and hebrews,cos they look like beautifull romanians.

[Damião de Góis]

You have to look at this one for the countries;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29



That one puts Ukraine ahead of Portugal. Ukranians are immigrating here and not the other way around. Same with Brazilians who are also ahead.

There are other strange examples.

[Onur]

That one puts Ukraine ahead of Portugal. Ukranians are immigrating here and not the other way around. Same with Brazilians who are also ahead.

There are other strange examples.
I think you clicked on sorting buttons on the lists and mixed it up. Sort it by "GDP (PPP) $Billion". Ukraine cannot possibly have higher GDP than Poland but for Brazil, i don't know if you are aware but Brazil recently passed France, UK and Italy in terms of GDP nd they will surely rise the lead because Euro economy is falling but Brazil is going extremely well.

[Damião de Góis]

I think you clicked on sorting buttons on the lists and mixed it up. Sort it by "GDP (PPP) $Billion". Ukraine cannot possibly have higher GDP than Poland but for Brazil, i don't know if you are aware but Brazil recently passed France, UK and Italy in terms of GDP nd they will surely rise the lead because Euro economy is falling but Brazil is going extremely well.

I'm from Portugal, not Poland ;)

I didn't click any sorting buttons, i was comparing Ukraine and Portugal since we have an ukranian community here, and also a somewhat large brazilian one. I know Brazil have a massive economy and market, but their people keep immigrating to places like Portugal, and i know this for a fact. So your link can't be right, if you are comparing countries. There must be something else to measure other than that.

Other examples include Pakistan being ahead of countries like Sweden or Austria.

[Osweo]

Fuck Turkey.

[mihaitzateo]

Dude you thought a lot when you said Turkey is more developed than Romania?
Are you plain dumb?
Come see in Romania how most childrens 10 years old can speak english without problems and use computers - facebook,inet etc.
In fact one of the bigest problems in Romania is that childrens and teenagers are not doing any phisical activity,they are just staying all day long at computer.
You do not know that Romania is between first countries in the world as access to inet?
Even the poorest family in Romania got a computer with inet.
Let me see where got Intel 3rd center as size,first being in US,2nd in Ireland?
Ankara?
Think is Bucharest.

[Bozkurt_Karabash]

2_Dzq_mKhok

What the fuck man?? Half of Africa, Indonesia? :confused::confused::confused:

[Supreme American]

lol bye troll.

[Adrian]

I'm from Portugal, not Poland ;)

I didn't click any sorting buttons, i was comparing Ukraine and Portugal since we have an ukranian community here, and also a somewhat large brazilian one. I know Brazil have a massive economy and market, but their people keep immigrating to places like Portugal, and i know this for a fact. So your link can't be right, if you are comparing countries. There must be something else to measure other than that.

Other examples include Pakistan being ahead of countries like Sweden or Austria.

This is because in countries that are experiencing fast economic growth, occur a huge gap between rich and poor people.
On one side established an elite, which benefits all the goods from that country while the rest of society works to enrich the pockets of this elite. Usually, in these countries, middle class goes toward extinction. This is happening with Brazil, China, India etc. IE, while in China there is a village full of millionaire in other part of it there are people who do not know what the computer is.
Concretely, it is the poor class who emigrated and continue to emigrate in Portugal IE.

[Queen B]

Tell me a single reason of why any country would invade Balkans?

Do you have oil or gas? Nope, only gas you have is your fart.
Then, why you whine like little girls when Greece is searching for oil in the Aegean.????
And yes, Greece has oil, in the Aegean, South of Crete, and even some in Ionian:cool:


hardworking people that we can abuse? Nope, laziest people on planet, i.e. Greeks.
You can check it out who is more lazy ... :coffee:
http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS


money, gold? Nope, except the gold jewelery of the gypsies.
vibrant and established economy? Absolutely not.

Greece has a very strong metallurgy sector, even by being 7 times smaller than your country.
Bauxite, Aluminium oxide, bentonite, Aluminium..
Greece has also Gold reservation and Nickel...
Greece is always sunny, and has sun almost all year, but .. uh-oh, Germany ''our ally'' came faster, and already made deals so they can take advange of it, and make Greece provide solar energy to Europe.
And not even to mention the production of olive, saffron..


Just tell me a single viable reason pls

1) Your bloody history
2) Your passion to be European
3) The fact that you never get over it, that your Ottoman empire is over
etc...

[Queen B]

Really ????

I don't think so, let's see some stats.

The only country that could have higher standards than Turkey is Slovenia the rest of them, Albania, Macedonia, Serbia, Bulgaria even Greece are in a deplorable situation

Have you really checked the standards?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-life_Index
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

[Europa]

I am sorry for making this very explicit thread title but this pretty much sums the whole question of the thread. The Balkans have had a sad and violent history of interaction since ancient times, where the anger between distinct ethnic states and empires has often damaged the development of neighbor states. Many unfortunate events have happened there and many state split ups. It is certainly a troubled region that could have progressed further much had it not been for petty ethnic rivalries.

Had a Turkoman power remained there continuosly those petty ethnic rivalries and civil warfares would not exist. With Turkish control there would have not been Kosovo war, there wouldn't be Srebenica, there would not exist hate between such very similarly related people.

In this hypothethic scenario they would not necessarily lose their sovereignity, they could be some sort of West Azerbaycan, but all of them would embrace a Turk nation and ethnicity in the Balkans.

What a wretch indeed....:coffee:

[Sturmgewehr]

Have you really checked the standards?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-life_Index
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

yeah I have and the only one above Turkey with Quality of life is Croatia, ahead of them with 0.1 LOL.

Greece, I am not discussing Greece, I was talking about Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Macedonia, Bosnia and Albania.

We already discussed the GDP per Capita and we mentioned some way more relevant factors than the GDP which doesn't show much about how well a country is doing.

I don't know why are u mixing Greece in this situation, plus Greek Economy is not doing well at all, the only good thing Greece did was spend the money they were supposed to use for something else, every country would have a good living standard if they were to receive Billions of dollars and spend them while sunbathing on the beach.

[Heretik]

yeah I have and the only one above Turkey with Quality of life is Croatia, ahead of them with 0.1 LOL.

Less than 0.1. :D But I generally think quality of life is much better in Croatia than in Turkey and I'm basing that on experiences of a few of my friends who visited Turkey. Some parts of Turkey are indeed very developed (Izmir for instance, Istanbul...) but what can be seen in some rural parts of Turkey cannot be seen in Croatia.
Croatian and Turkish industry cannot even be compared as Croatian industry is almost a non-existent branch of our economy apart from a few big construction companies and ship-building.

Ontopic, the basic idea of this thread is nothing more than funny, if not hilarious. We were once under Ottoman turkish rule and I think we all clearly showed what we thought of that.

[Queen B]

yeah I have and the only one above Turkey with Quality of life is Croatia, ahead of them with 0.1 LOL.

Greece, I am not discussing Greece, I was talking about Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Fyrom, Bosnia and Albania.

When you talk about Balkans, then its Greece inside.



We already discussed the GDP per Capita and we mentioned some way more relevant factors than the GDP which doesn't show much about how well a country is doing.


Neither is the GDP in general, since GDP in general, has to do with size as well.
Because in that case, Brazil, India, Mexico,etc are doing fine in terms of GDP, but you can't really tell how good is their well-beings.

How well a country is doing, is something that has to do with lots of factors, not just GDP, or even GDP per capita.



I don't know why are u mixing Greece in this situation,

Because Greece is part of the Balkans, and the title talks about Balkans.
Plus, Onur (i think) mentioned the ''lazy'' Greeks, so...


plus Greek Economy is not doing well at all, the only good thing Greece did was spend the money they were supposed to use for something else, every country would have a good living standard if they were to receive Billions of dollars and spend them while sunbathing on the beach.
The only truth in your sentence is that Greek economy is not doing well.
The rest is just ignorant comments u don't know about.

[mymy]

May i ask why we even discuss it? The answer is no, Turkey has to forgot about rest of the Balkan. No one need more wars, right?

[Heretik]

Discussion took a turn but I think it is interesting. For once discussion is based on opinions backed by data. Very refreshing to see. :)

[Sturmgewehr]

When you talk about Balkans, then its Greece inside.

It seems that you didn't follow what I wrote and who I replied to very well.

I was replying to Padre Ogrino or whatever his/her nick was and comparing mainly Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria and Romania, I hardly mentioned Greece only once in my argument and then we were comparing Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria and ROmania with Turkey

I never made any comparison between Greece and Turkey.

I just mentioned that Turkey for the moment is doing way better than all Balkan countries and this is true including Greece, while you are about to sell Islands and not knowing how to deal with your debt Turkey is overtaking you.


Neither is the GDP in general, since GDP in general, has to do with size as well.
Because in that case, Brazil, India, Mexico,etc are doing fine in terms of GDP, but you can't really tell how good is their well-beings.

I said the same too back in my previous posts but it seems u didn't read my posts at all.


How well a country is doing, is something that has to do with lots of factors, not just GDP, or even GDP per capita.

That is what I said too and if u consider all other factors Turkey is doing a lot better than Greece.

For now Greece might be having a better life index and quality of life but that is over now, now Greece has stagnated and it is very unlikely it will do well in the next 5 years at least while Turkeys Economy and industry is sky rocketing in comparison with Greece.

The GDP real growth rate of Greece is -6% whereas the Turkey's GDP real growth rate is almost +7%, a big difference.

GDP COMPOSITION SECTOR IN GREECE:

agriculture: 3.6%
industry: 18%
services: 78.3% (2011 est.)

GDP COMPOSITION SECTOR IN TURKEY:

agriculture: 9.2%
industry: 26.9%
services: 63.9% (2011 est.)

Unemployment rate in Greece is 17% whereas in Turkey it is 10%.

Investments in Turkey are 20% or more whereas in Greece 13%.

The Greek industry is almost non existent when compared to that of Turkeys.


Because Greece is part of the Balkans, and the title talks about Balkans.
Plus, Onur (i think) mentioned the ''lazy'' Greeks, so...

yeah but I never compared Greece with Turkey until now, I was talking about other Balkan countries and I am not Onur's steward.


The only truth in your sentence is that Greek economy is not doing well.
The rest is just ignorant comments u don't know about.

No that is not true.

The Truth is that Greece's Economy sucks and you are going down.

Turkey is obviously doing way better than Greece in most of its economic segments and branches.

The only difference is that Greeks have a better life index and a bit higher GDP than Turks but taking into account the population size that is not a bid deal also considering the fact that Turkey is growing and investing almost 100% more than you are and has a 10 times better Industry than Greece it will overtake you like a Ferrari passing by a broken car in the highway.

If I don't know about it so much then teach me please :)

[Queen B]

It seems that you didn't follow what I wrote and who I replied to very well.

Yes, I didn't


I was replying to Padre Ogrino or whatever his/her nick was and comparing mainly Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria and Romania, I hardly mentioned Greece only once in my argument and then we were comparing Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria and ROmania with Turkey

Yes, but when talking about Balkans, and me just jumping in the the thread, I automatically answer about all Balkans. :p



I just mentioned that Turkey for the moment is doing way better than all Balkan countries and this is true including Greece, while you are about to sell Islands and not knowing how to deal with your debt Turkey is overtaking you.

When we ll actually sell (public owned) islands, then talk about it again. Coz this whole sh@t, I ve been listening since 2009, there are 3 years later, and I don't see us selling any island.



For now Greece might be having a better life index and quality of life but that is over now, now Greece has stagnated and it is very unlikely it will do well in the next 5 years at least while Turkeys Economy and industry is sky rocketing in comparison with Greece.

The quality of life and better life index, is updating every year. Greece's rank haven't go down a lot, while in these 3 years the economy has gone to shit.

For the rest, you can't just predict what will happen in the next 5 years. We are talking about NOW, and the statistics are as they are.




The Truth is that Greece's Economy sucks and you are going down.
Turkey is obviously doing way better than Greece in most of its economic segments and branches.
As a state/country, yes, it does. It always did,actually, its 7 times bigger, and has gone through nothing since the early 1900s.



The only difference is that Greeks have a better life index and a bit higher GDP than Turks but taking into account the population size that is not a bid deal also considering the fact that Turkey is growing and investing almost 100% more than you are and has a 10 times better Industry than Greece it will overtake you like a Ferrari passing by a broken car in the highway.
But to tell that a country is doing better, then everything must be included.
(F.e. and I am not talking specifically about Turkey now).
If the population is poor, has no freedom or is illiterate, earn few money, have low development index or human rights, you can't say its doing fine just because of the GDP.
I didn't put the Mexico example just to put it.


If I don't know about then teach me please :)
I m not sure that you are willing to understand ;)

[Sturmgewehr]

When we ll actually sell (public owned) islands, then talk about it again. Coz this whole sh@t, I ve been listening since 2009, there are 3 years later, and I don't see us selling any island.

Even if it doesn't, the country is bankrupt, the only thing left to do is for the government to declare bankruptcy.

You are aware that Greece is in a very very critical situation.


The quality of life and better life index, is updating every year. Greece's rank haven't go down a lot, while in these 3 years the economy has gone to shit.

I don't know if it is updating every year but I don't think after all these things Greece is going through the Better life index will go up, if the Economy is doing bad, businesses will do bad which will lead to people not spending as much as they did and saving more, going out less and spending money on their personal indulgence less which means the better life index will be dropping.


For the rest, you can't just predict what will happen in the next 5 years. We are talking about NOW, and the statistics are as they are.

I can't precisely predict what will happen in the next 5 - 10 years but I can safely predict the future of Greece and its economy is not bright and it is illogical to think that Greece will go through an economic boost with all that dept it has.

I am an Economist, I am not an world Expert but at least I know something when it comes to these type of situations.


As a state/country, yes, it does. It always did,actually, its 7 times bigger, and has gone through nothing since the early 1900s.

Doesn't this show how well Greece is doing ?????


But to tell that a country is doing better, then everything must be included.

OK let's include everything.

Let's make a comparison between the Turkish and Greek Economy.

Let's compare their Industries which obviously if compared we will conclude that Greece has no Industry in comparison with the Turkish one.

Let's compare Budgets

Let's compare Economic Growth.

Let's pull out everything.


If the population is poor, has no freedom or is illiterate, earn few money, have low development index or human rights, you can't say its doing fine just because of the GDP.

That is what I said too and Turkey is obviously doing very well in almost every indicator you already mentioned, of course compared to Greece.

Plus it is a mixture of all denominators that will determine if Turkey is doing better or Greece.


I m not sure that you are willing to understand

You are just assuming that, it is only a baseless assumption.

I have no reason at all to defend Turkey if I don't have any facts and proofs in my side, if my opinion was biased and based on my wishful thinking then I would claim Albania has a better Economy than Greece or Turkey but I obviously didn't do that.

[Onur]

May i ask why we even discuss it? The answer is no, Turkey has to forgot about rest of the Balkan. No one need more wars, right?
Turkish people already forgot Balkans. It`s only a nostalgia for us for a century. We have 100s of poems, stories, songs even about Hungary but it`s nothing more than a nostalgia.

It`s the Balkan people who didn't forget Ottoman era even after a century, thanks to their church and anti-Turkish propaganda.


Less than 0.1. :D But I generally think quality of life is much better in Croatia than in Turkey and I'm basing that on experiences of a few of my friends who visited Turkey.
Comparing Croatia or any other Balkan country with Turkey is like comparing oranges with apples. Croatia`s economical size is 1/10th of only Istanbul, geographically it`s same size as my city here but population wise, Croatia is even smaller than few cities here. Probably Turkey`s toilet paper consumption is about same as Serbia`s annual budget.

So, it`s pointless to compare Turkey with small Balkan states because everything is different.


The only difference is that Greeks have a better life index and a bit higher GDP than Turks but taking into account the population size that is not a bid deal also considering the fact that Turkey is growing and investing almost 100% more than you are and has a 10 times better Industry than Greece it will overtake you like a Ferrari passing by a broken car in the highway.
Since 1990s, Greece took about 80 billions of Euros as a free donation from EU funds and about ~400 billions of Euros loans on top of that.

If they give ~500 billions of Euros in less than 15 years to any country with less than 10 million population, they temporarily live in same kind of heaven but ofc this would never continue forever. As we see today, big guns in EU turned the money tap off and Greece immediately gone bust.

So, life quality index, GDP per capita, none of these indexes shows Greece`s true economical power. All these stats are falsified for them, nothing but bullshit. Today, we still cant see Greece`s true economical condition because they continue to get billions of Euros debt from EU. I mean, think about if EU would give ~500 billions Euros to Albania, then what these stats would be for them? I am sure Albania would have better stats than Luxembourg but would it represent true economical power of the country and would it continue forever? Nope, Albania would gone bust in the end have ~500 billions of Euros debt and become a German colony just like Greece today.

Greece`s true economical power is no different than Bulgaria or Albania. They have no industry, no agriculture. They only produce olives and they have so so tourism. Even the tiny Croatia`s tourism income will pass Greece in few years of time. So, tell me how come Greece became richer than Bulgaria with only olives and tourism? Is it possible? No it`s not without the ~500 billions of Euros from EU.

[Europa]

[QUOTE=Onur;768909]

It`s the Balkan people who didn't forget Ottoman era even after a century, thanks to their church and anti-Turkish propaganda.

Another prove that you are useless member of this forum.:coffee:

[Queen B]

Even if it doesn't, the country is bankrupt, the only thing left to do is for the government to declare bankruptcy.
It would be better if we declare bankruptcy, actually.
Greece will grow sooner than if they don't.


You are aware that Greece is in a very very critical situation.
I am. Unlike many people who like to play it experts, I live here, and I witness everything first hand.



I don't know if it is updating every year but I don't think after all these things Greece is going through the Better life index will go up, if the Economy is doing bad, businesses will do bad which will lead to people not spending as much as they did and saving more, going out less and spending money on their personal indulgence less which means the better life index will be dropping.
Of course will go down. Even in the quality of life index, and other indexes, Greece's rank have gone down, but not significantly much, compared to the shit that the economy has dive in.


I can't precisely predict what will happen in the next 5 - 10 years but I can safely predict the future of Greece and its economy is not bright and it is illogical to think that Greece will go through an economic boost with all that dept it has.
Soon, not. Not even in the next 5-10 years, either. But its not the first time that our economy has dive in to shits.




OK let's include everything.

Let's make a comparison between the Turkish and Greek Economy.

Let's compare their Industries which obviously if compared we will conclude that Greece has no Industry in comparison with the Turkish one.

Let's compare Budgets

Let's compare Economic Growth.

Let's pull out everything.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_current_account_balance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_imports
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_received_FDI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign_exchange_reserves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_gold_reserves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_external_assets
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_ GDP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ease_of_Doing_Business_Index#Ranking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_employment_rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemployment_rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_budget_revenues_per_ capita




You are just assuming that, it is only a baseless assumption.

I have no reason at all to defend Turkey if I don't have any facts and proofs in my side, if my opinion was biased and based on my wishful thinking then I would claim Albania has a better Economy than Greece or Turkey but I obviously didn't do that.
My comment about what you are wrong and I am not sure if you are willing to understand was about ''the only good thing Greece did was spend the money they were supposed to use for something else, every country would have a good living standard if they were to receive Billions of dollars and spend them while sunbathing on the beach. ''

[Heretik]

Comparing Croatia or any other Balkan country with Turkey is like comparing oranges with apples. Croatia`s economical size is 1/10th of only Istanbul, geographically it`s same size as my city here but population wise, Croatia is even smaller than few cities here. Probably Turkey`s toilet paper consumption is about same as Serbia`s annual budget.

So, it`s pointless to compare Turkey with small Balkan states because everything is different.

We can compare living standards in Turkey and Croatia. Why not? Just because your economy is 10x bigger it doesn't mean you have a higher standard of living. Your economy is 1/100th of that of China and I am pretty sure you have a higher standard than most of the Chinese. You are the one who is mixing apples and oranges here as nobody ever said your economy isn't bigger than Croatian, or for that matter, than any other Balkan country.



Since 1990s, Greece took about 80 billions of Euros as a free donation from EU funds and about ~400 billions of Euros loans on top of that.

If they give ~500 billions of Euros in less than 15 years to any country with less than 10 million population, they temporarily live in same kind of heaven but ofc this would never continue forever. As we see today, big guns in EU turned the money tap off and Greece immediately gone bust.

Why do you even care? As far as I remember you are not a member of the EU and you gave them 0€.

[Hess]

sturmgewehr is right- Turkey is economically on much better footing than Greece.

But so what? That doesn;t change the fact that Turkey is still foreign and not welcome in Europe.

[Kanuni]

I think this thread of a troll should be already closed maybe the Mexican was a

pan-Turanist:laugh:

[Sturmgewehr]

@ Dandelion:

That still looks like Turkey is doing better than Greece.

[Sturmgewehr]

sturmgewehr is right- Turkey is economically on much better footing than Greece.

But so what? That doesn;t change the fact that Turkey is still foreign and not welcome in Europe.

And it is not like we spread our butt-cheeks to take Turkey inside, I won't support my country being Annexed to anyone be it Turkey, German or whoever.

[Queen B]

All these stats are falsified for them, nothing but bullshit. Today, we still cant see Greece`s true economical condition because they continue to get billions of Euros debt from EU. I mean, think about if EU would give ~500 billions Euros to Albania, then what these stats would be for them? I am sure Albania would have better stats than Luxembourg but would it represent true economical power of the country and would it continue forever? Nope, Albania would gone bust in the end have ~500 billions of Euros debt and become a German colony just like Greece today.

You fail to realise that
1) None of the money that Greece is taking is going to the citizens. They don't even go to the state. All the money are going directly to the banks, and to pay back the previous taken loans and/or interest of loans.
2) What was falsified was deficit, inflation and other rates like that. The quality of life or Human development index are measured by many factors, and non-economic ones.



Greece`s true economical power is no different than Bulgaria or Albania. They have no industry, no agriculture. They only produce olives and they have so so tourism. Even the tiny Croatia`s tourism income will pass Greece in few years of time. So, tell me how come Greece became richer than Bulgaria with only olives and tourism? Is it possible? No it`s not without the ~500 billions of Euros from EU.
Greece's is not an industrialized country anyway.

Our PUBLIC and EXTERNAL debt is huge.
But Greeks still have personal financial assets as well as Greece also has public financial assets and gold reserves,etc

Our banks have still over 150 billions of -personal - deposits, which is more than the half of our GDP in deposits, not to even included the deposits in foreign banks.

Greeks, as citizens, ''own'' less money than other countries in crisis.
For example, in case of bankcrupcy, this will affect the citizens for about 25% while in case of Japan's bankrupcy (high unlikely to happen,but anyway) will affect them for more than 95%

[Heretik]

I won't support my country being Annexed to anyone be it Turkey, German or whoever.

Plain and simple. Time to end this thread.

[Queen B]

\
Why do you even care? As far as I remember you are not a member of the EU and you gave them 0€.

:lol: