Europe this, Europe that...

[poiuytrewq0987]

I have done a lot of reading of "Europe this" and "Europe that" In reality? It's nothing like that. I have seen very little desire from other Europeans to help each others. Very different from Americans who help each others from Honolulu to Caribou. I also have never seen anything from EU with proposals to actually help lift the living standards of all Europeans.

What I am talking about is the colossal wage disparity between two sides of the continent. Such disparity is, if it actually existed, unacceptable in the USA. There are only two states with this problem in the US and they are Mississippi and West Virginia. Right now, Eastern Europe is one big West Virginia, technically speaking.

A Europe is about culture, friendship and so forth. It is also about Europeans earning reasonable wages to support their family. The colossal wage disparity between Western Europe and Eastern Europe is preventing the continent from getting on equal footing with the rest of the world, including China and the United States. Europe will soon be outpaced in GDP, and quite possibly, in wages too, if Europe continues to ignore Eastern Europeans.

We see exploitative practices by Western Europeans everyday. A lot of foreign Western European companies set up shop in my country. They do it not because they want to help us by giving us wages they give their employees in Germany or France but to exploit our workers by paying us $200 a month to work in a substandard factory. How can we see moves by W. European countries who set up shop in E. Europe as brotherly if they exploit our workers?

So, ask yourself, do you support a Europe where everyone is considered equal by having a continent-wide minimum wage of €8/hour? Additionally, everyone should be afforded the opportunity to either work 40 hour a week (full time) or 20 hours a week (part time). No more, no less except overtimes when needed. A continent-wide pension system should also be implemented. Everyone should have a small tax deducted from their payroll to support this system. All working Europeans should be able to tap into this when they reach the continent-wide retirement age of 65 (for both men and women) in addition to their company pension.

I want to see a fair Europe where all Europeans can earn the same basic wage affording us the opportunity to earn the same living standards no matter what side of the continent you're on. The question is... do you?

[Queen B]

Ehm, just in case you didn't notice,this is a European preservation forum

[Damião de Góis]

Europe is about culture, friendship and so forth.

We have been "friends" for not too long. Europe's history is made of wars between its various countries. Lack of cooperation shouldn't surprise you.

[gandalf]

Dusan your question is a good one .

The success of german industry can be explained with the fact they have delocalised in eastern Europe where the cost of man power is much lower .

Indeed this Europe is all built for big business , and not for the people .

Anyway the social and economic progress is something each nation has got to look after , nobody will bring it to you on a plate .

The solidarity between poors and richs can occurs within a nation ,
and Europe will never be one nation .

[Comte Arnau]

Those who think Europeans can't be friends have never been on an Erasmus.

[Balmung]

I disagree with the comment about America.

The American government couldn't give two shits about some of its neighborhoods & cities. If it did the public schools would no longer be such shit. Places like Detroit would be in better condition & if Americans truly did help each other its living standards would be higher than it is at present.

I do agree that America likes defending its own when it comes to foreign matters such as war. Like back in 2005 when a man admitted to killing innocent civilians and was let off. Witnesses even admitted to the civilians carrying no weapons. He got no detention, no nothing. Then when someone does the exact same to America they are then a terrorist. So in that way Americans do help each other.

As for the citizens? Americans are more likely to insult each other than help. Back when California was going through issues you had a string of people "We should kick California out", "California costing us shit, make them secede", "California sucks, bringing down our economy". These idiots did all this bashing but they were so uneducated on matters that they didn't even know how stupid that would be considering California is America's Germany. You have all these idiots dissing a state and ready to get rid of them through hardship not realizing that the same state has been bailing America out for years.

Not bashing just saying its not picture perfect in America either. Also you can't really compare a country to a continent. Yes America has states with different laws and what not. Its still not the same.

[Siberyak]

Come on now. You say Americans help each other from coast to coast. nonsense

[Riki]

As for the citizens? Americans are more likely to insult each other than help. Back when California was going through issues you had a string of people "We should kick California out", "California costing us shit, make them secede", "California sucks, bringing down our economy". These idiots did all this bashing but they were so uneducated on matters that they didn't even know how stupid that would be considering California is America's Germany. You have all these idiots dissing a state and ready to get rid of them through hardship not realizing that the same state has been bailing America out for years.


Sounds familiar.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Ehm, just in case you didn't notice,this is a European preservation forum

Someone failed her reading comprehension class. The thread is basically about are you willing to walk the talk or will you just continue to talk the talk? :coffee:

[Albion]

I have done a lot of reading of "Europe this" and "Europe that" In reality? It's nothing like that. I have seen very little desire from other Europeans to help each others. Very different from Americans who help each others from Honolulu to Caribou. I also have never seen anything from EU with proposals to actually help lift the living standards of all Europeans.

:rolleyes: This sounds a lot like "Give us money!"

Besides, you are wrong. Western Europe has provided a lot of money via the EU and loans for it to develop. It's also poured in substantial amounts of money - just look at all the Swedish investment in the Baltic, German investment in Central Europe, British investment in Russia.


What I am talking about is the colossal wage disparity between two sides of the continent.

We can't help that. Don't you think wage disparity exist in the West of Europe too? Look at Portugal and compare it to Norway.
You even see massive differences in countries - London and South East England Vs Wales or Northern Ireland.


Such disparity is, if it actually existed, unacceptable in the USA.

Hahaha. Please type in "Detroit" on the internet.


Right now, Eastern Europe is one big West Virginia, technically speaking.

Right, but it has great potential. Romania is starting to export cars, Hungary has been manufacturing domestic appliances for years. The east will catch up.


Europe will soon be outpaced in GDP, and quite possibly, in wages too, if Europe continues to ignore Eastern Europeans.

They're not ignored.


We see exploitative practices by Western Europeans everyday. A lot of foreign Western European companies set up shop in my country. They do it not because they want to help us by giving us wages they give their employees in Germany or France but to exploit our workers by paying us $200 a month to work in a substandard factory. How can we see moves by W. European countries who set up shop in E. Europe as brotherly if they exploit our workers?

Hey - work is work. Western Europe had to go through an industrial revolution 10 times worse than any conditions in Eastern European factories today.
Of course companies will pay lower wages there because the costs of living are lower and the average wages are lower. Capitalism as a concept is lost on you. :rolleyes:


So, ask yourself, do you support a Europe where everyone is considered equal by having a continent-wide minimum wage of €8/hour? Additionally, everyone should be afforded the opportunity to either work 40 hour a week (full time) or 20 hours a week (part time). No more, no less except overtimes when needed. A continent-wide pension system should also be implemented. Everyone should have a small tax deducted from their payroll to support this system. All working Europeans should be able to tap into this when they reach the continent-wide retirement age of 65 (for both men and women) in addition to their company pension.

No. That'd make us uncompetitive and besides, these are national matters and not really things you can do across lots of disunited countries.


I want to see a fair Europe where all Europeans can earn the same basic wage affording us the opportunity to earn the same living standards no matter what side of the continent you're on. The question is... do you?

I want to see a fair Europe within reason. The East will catch up if Western European companies keep investing there and the EU or nations in the west keeps providing money to develop.
It's not something you can make happen overnight by bringing in regulations.

Tell me, once wages were the same across the continent, what would stop Hungarian industry moving to Slovenia or the Netherlands?
Slovenia is near a large market in Italy and closer to ports, the Netherlands has Rotterdam and highly educated people so would be a better choice than Hungary.
If your idea was put in place you'd actually see business and money leaving the east.

[Riki]

The problem with Europe,is simply the Politicians.They messed this all up.
As for the People I think in the last two or three decades we definitely got closer as Europeans and we have Europe as an Identity.

[Siegfried]

"I've heard humanity this and humanity that, but nothing else. We are all supposed to help each other and be equal. But, if you compare continents like Europe to Africa, you'll notice that there's a big difference economically and socially. This would be unacceptable in a place that exists in my head. So Europeans should start helping those poor Africans and developing their industries for them so that we can all be equal and have the same wages. You Europeans should start helping us and donating to us so we can all be the same."

And that's what this article reminded me of. It is not the duty of the West to help the East, it is not your right. Consider it a privilege if you are helped, not something you inherit at birth.

[Grizzly]

IMHO, Europe or Western Europe has lost it's pride.. I think they are being absorbed into this liberal politics that allow massive immigration from Africa/Asia, absorbing the multiculturalism lifestyle and losing all of their European pride. They have become ashamed of their past instead of embracing and being proud of it

And what's happening? Having pakis, turks and blacks entering your countries and bringing the filth from their country.. In 50 years there will be no Europe... And the world will sink into chaos