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Treffie
04-28-2009, 11:30 PM
Here we go again! :mad:

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A BRITISH air stewardess was sacked for refusing to fly to Saudi Arabia after she was ordered to wear a traditional Islamic robe and walk behind male colleagues.

Lisa Ashton, a £15,000-a-year stewardess with BMI, was told that in public areas in Saudi Arabia she was required to wear a black robe, known as an abaya. This covers everything but the face, feet and hands. She was told to follow her male colleagues, irrespective of rank.

Ashton, 37, who was worried about security in the country, refused to fly there, claiming the instructions were discriminatory. She was sacked last April.

“It’s not the law that you have to walk behind men in Saudi Arabia, or that you have to wear an abaya, and I’m not going to be treated as a second-class citizen,” Ashton said last week.

“It’s outrageous. I’m a proud Englishwoman and I don’t want these restrictions placed on myself.”

Saudi experts and companies that recruit women to work in the country say it is a “myth” that western women are required to walk behind men. There is no requirement for them to wear the abaya in public, though many do.

Earlier this year an employment tribunal in Manchester ruled that BMI was justified in imposing “rules of a different culture” on staff and cleared it of sexual discrimination. Ashton has consulted Liberty, the human rights organisation, and may seek a judicial review of the decision.

Ashton joined BMI in March 1996, flying to the Caribbean, the United States and India. Based in Manchester, she was told in the summer of 2005 that BMI was starting a service to Saudi Arabia and she might be required to work on it.

The Foreign Office was then advising visitors of a “threat of terrorism” in the country. Ashton did not want to travel there because of the security risks, and was offended by the rules for staff travelling to the region.

A BMI document circulated to staff who might travel to Saudi Arabia stated: “It is expected that female crew members will walk behind their male counterparts in public areas such as airports no matter what rank.”

Staff were also given abayas and were required to put them on when leaving the aircraft. Ashton, a practising Christian, was advised by union officials that it was considered a part of the uniform and she could face disciplinary action if she did not wear it.

Ashton said she did not want to fly to Saudi Arabia, but wished to continue flying long-haul routes. The firm said she could transfer to short-haul flights but that would have meant a pay cut of about 20%. She declined to switch to short-haul flights.

On June 13, 2007, she was told she was rostered for a flight from London to Saudi Arabia and refused to go. She was dismissed for refusing to fly and for making it clear she would not travel to Saudi Arabia.

Her letter of dismissal said it was “proportionate” to ask female employees to walk behind men out of respect for Saudi culture. BMI has also defended its decision to require female staff to wear abayas.

The Foreign Office advises women to dress “conservatively” but does not specifically advise wearing an abaya in public places. It also does not refer to any rule or convention that western women should walk behind men.

In a legal case in 2002 Colonel Martha McSally launched a legal action over American military orders that female servicewomen should wear an abaya in public places in Saudi Arabia when American women diplomats and the wives of servicemen were not expected to wear the garment.

The Senate subsequently passed legislation that prohibited defence officials from requiring female personnel to wear abayas.

In the employment tribunal decision over Ashton’s case it was ruled there was no evidence that women would regard BMI’s requirements on wearing the abaya, or walking behind men, as “placing them under any disadvantage”. Ashton’s case was dismissed.

The firm said last week the tribunal ruling was “self-explanatory” and would not comment.

Since leaving BMI, Ashton has embarked on a musical career. She said one of her first songs, Shame, Shame, Shame, performed by the band Looby, was inspired by the airline.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6169989.ece

Birka
04-28-2009, 11:38 PM
Have Europeans just given up our laws and totally accepted Sharia Law? Will all men now be required to grow Bin Laden beards?

Treffie
04-28-2009, 11:40 PM
Have Europeans just given up our laws and totally accepted Sharia Law? Will all men now be required to grow Bin Laden beards?

It's not a matter of giving up, it's something that has crept up on us without us fully realising it until something like this happens. I suspect that the US will be following suit within the next few years. :mad:

We'll be comparing notes:rolleyes2:

Vulpix
04-29-2009, 08:08 AM
Someone with a spine finally!! I've read she's not giving up the fight :thumb001:. I'm with her.

P.S: Saudi "culture" is barbaric.

Discover
04-29-2009, 08:48 AM
Its great to see that she stood up for herself, if I was told I had to obey another groups religion/customs consistently I'd tell them to politely get $%^#'d.

The people who push need to be pushed back. Being polite here is being asleep and welcoming being stepped on.

Brynhild
04-29-2009, 08:49 AM
You go, girl! Do your race proud! :thumb001:

Sigurd
04-29-2009, 09:08 AM
It'd be less outrageous if they didn't call it "cultural insensitivity", "infringement of freedom of religion" and "racial discrimination" if an employer here asks a Muslim woman not to enter the workplace veiled.

Double standards as usual, though I raise my horn to this woman for being steadfast in this and refusing to be forced into adopting another culture's perverse custom. I hope she will be successful in her action. :thumbs up

Beorn
04-29-2009, 01:05 PM
if I was told I had to obey another groups religion/customs consistently I'd tell them to politely get $%^#'d.

So you don't mind people not from your country consistently not following the cultural rules and customs of your country?

I don't know about you, but when I enter another persons country or religious grounds and it requires me to wear a turban, or a Yarmulke or wash my feet, or whatever to appease and acknowledge the custom, then I will gladly abide by that.

This is one of the important details to the current breakdown in cultural assimilation.
The people that drive relentlessly into my country will not assimilate because they will not bow down to my customs, my religious and cultural laws, and we all suffer because of it.

This air stewardess should learn to respect and abide by other peoples cultural laws and customs and not make a big song and dance about it all.
By all means contest the flight allocations, but I'm sure she must have signed a contract stating that her time belongs to the company and that wherever they need her, she should go.

I'm not certain of how things work in other areas of people's working life, but if my boss tells me to do something and I can't and won't do it, I have nothing but the dole queue to look forward to.

I hope BMI don't have to succumb to this silly woman.

Gooding
04-29-2009, 01:22 PM
Blind delusions make even an otherwise reasonable sentient put his or her hands over his or her ears and yell "no,no,no!" Fanaticism begets misery and governmentally imposed fanaticism with capitalist collaboration from other nations lead to unnecessary crap like this.However, I do agree with Wat in that it is absolutely right to honor the traditions of another country while in the other country.I'm far from certain as to why anyone would want to go to a place as dangerous as the Middle East unless that is where one is from.I do wish her well in that she didn't even want to fly over there to begin with and I certainly do hope that this raises awareness among the P.C. crowd about how these sand niggers are playing them and their governments.

Vulpix
04-29-2009, 02:20 PM
Look, wearing the abaya and walking behind men is NOT mandatory in Saudi. This is a form of unnecessary PC pandering to perceived cultural norms.


So you don't mind people not from your
country consistently not following the cultural rules and customs of your country?

I don't know about you, but when I enter another persons country or religious grounds and it requires me to wear a turban, or a Yarmulke or wash my feet, or whatever to appease and acknowledge the custom, then I will gladly abide by that.

This is one of the important details to the current breakdown in cultural assimilation.
The people that drive relentlessly into my country will not assimilate because they will not bow down to my customs, my religious and cultural laws, and we all suffer because of it.

This air stewardess should learn to respect and abide by other peoples cultural laws and customs and not make a big song and dance about it all.
By all means contest the flight allocations, but I'm sure she must have signed a contract stating that her time belongs to the company and that wherever they need her, she should go.

I'm not certain of how things work in other areas of people's working life, but if my boss tells me to do something and I can't and won't do it, I have nothing but the dole queue to look forward to.

I hope BMI don't have to succumb to this silly woman.

Beorn
04-29-2009, 02:35 PM
Look, wearing the abaya and walking behind men is NOT mandatory in Saudi.

I understand that it is not a mandatory law to wear the Abaya, but the cultural norm is what I am going by on this.

If the woman cannot abide by her contract, and by the common courtesy of the land she visits, then she has no sympathy from me.

Thorum
04-29-2009, 02:49 PM
Another example of religion shoving its values on the public.....

Vulpix
04-29-2009, 07:46 PM
I understand that it is not a mandatory law to wear the Abaya, but the cultural norm is what I am going by on this.

If the woman cannot abide by her contract, and by the common courtesy of the land she visits, then she has no sympathy from me.

"Common courtesy" in this case would be "modest clothing"; an abaya is not required. Also if you are going by cultural norm, why aren't the men of the crew required to wear a keffiyeh and an ankle-length shirt?

Discover
04-30-2009, 05:48 AM
So you don't mind people not from your country consistently not following the cultural rules and customs of your country?

I am European, I have had this bias since birth. I do mind. I don't want any of them here even.

I don't really care for their customs. We don't seem to be trying to inhabit their lands, adopting their cultures. Its because what we see doesn't attract us, what they see is the opportunity we have made for our countrymen and they want it.

They basically are telling us to get $%^&'d by coming in and adopting nothing and setting up separate communities. My mindset is the same but for my side.

So I do not have a balanced point of view, I am tied to my allegiance.

Treffie
04-30-2009, 08:13 AM
I understand that it is not a mandatory law to wear the Abaya, but the cultural norm is what I am going by on this.

If the woman cannot abide by her contract, and by the common courtesy of the land she visits, then she has no sympathy from me.

I don't think courtesy is the issue here, even the most tactless of people are aware that women need to be covered up in Saudi Arabia.

I believe that this is a faux pas on behalf of BMI. It appears that they are/were not aware that there are differences in headwear for females in Saudi Arabia. I used to live in Dhahran when my father worked for BP and women do not have to wear anything to cover their head there. Jeddah is another liberal (by SA standards) city, where only a headscarf may suffice, however Riyadh is a very conservative city but the abaya is still not mandatory there. The woman should have been offered another type of uniform IMO - I don't think it's too much to ask.