Yemenite Jews are 20% R1b.

[Isinimo]

https://i.postimg.cc/3xsJN6Xz/frie6qvxf0ee1.webp

Most of the R1b looks to be under R1b-Z2103 and the P-M45 is misread Q and it funnily seems to be virtually all under Q1a-L330.

I even share a subclade under J2 with these guys, and only these guys (one individual though). TRMCA 5500 YBP. (https://jewishdna.net/AB-693.html)

43% J-M304 - 37% K-M9 - 17% E-M35 - 3% Other (G, L, A etc)

[Radegast]

oy vey

[Isinimo]

oy vey

Most "Oriental" Jewish group are looking very European right now.

[Florstadt]

Okay, and? Who cares who is European and who is not?

[chinshen]

Most "Oriental" Jewish group are looking very European right now.

R1b-Z2103 is not really European. My Y-Haplo is R1b-Z2103 and and 0% European DNA, about 30% of Assyrians carry R1b-Z2103.

[Isinimo]

Okay, and? Who cares who is European and who is not?

Lol... You, you care otherwise you wouldn't really be a Zionist. The whole thing is about connecting Jews to the Levant or what you call "Eretz Yisrael" it is in the East Mediterranean, not Europe. So if this isn't what you care about then what makes you a Zionist in the first place?

[Isinimo]

R1b-Z2103 is not really European. My Y-Haplo is R1b-Z2103 and and 0% European DNA, about 30% of Assyrians carry R1b-Z2103.

It was first carried by Steppe Herders, who lived in Russia and one of the first Indo-European speakers so it doesn't make sense to rule it out as not European, though it originally was. Plus it's sarcasm.

[Isinimo]

Rest assured that J2 is likely a Sabaean convert.

[Florstadt]

It’s fascinating to watch the mental gymnastics in this thread. On one hand, you acknowledge that R1b-Z2103 is a quintessential West Asian/Middle Eastern marker (found in high frequencies among Assyrians, Armenians, and Kurds), yet in the same breath, you try to "disconnect" it from the Levant just to score points against Jews.

This obsession with "European-ness" or trying to quantify who "looks" European is a phenomenon that exists almost exclusively in these internet echo chambers. In the real world, phenotype is a spectrum, and identity isn't determined by a magnifying glass or a 5,000-year-old mutation from the Steppe.

[Isinimo]

It’s fascinating to watch the mental gymnastics in this thread. On one hand, you acknowledge that R1b-Z2103 is a quintessential West Asian/Middle Eastern marker (found in high frequencies among Assyrians, Armenians, and Kurds), yet in the same breath, you try to "disconnect" it from the Levant just to score points against Jews.

This obsession with "European-ness" or trying to quantify who "looks" European is a phenomenon that exists almost exclusively in these internet echo chambers. In the real world, phenotype is a spectrum, and identity isn't determined by a magnifying glass or a 5,000-year-old mutation from the Steppe.

If trying to "disconnect" Jews from the Levant is this easy then I should make a hobby out of it. Never said it was a "quintessential West Asian/Middle Eastern marker" lol?, straight up put words in my mouth. Rather infact, R-Z2103 in my view is a symbolic coconut, and to an extent R-Z93 they both made themselves apparent in the Middle East but their origins lie elsewhere. Not going into the other bit about "European-ness" appearances. It's obviously wrong, you just never been anywhere outside of Israel I assume or read their sociological history. Who cares about goyim history anyway, the world started 6,000 ago then Adam, then Noah's ark, Abraham, then Moses yadayada.

[Florstadt]

The fact remains that this clade has been part of the West Asian landscape for a long time.

As for your assumptions about me: I’ve traveled half of Europe and I hold European citizenship. The difference between us is that I don’t feel the need to obsess over the label. I find the European vs. Non-European gatekeeping in these forums to be a tedious, 19th-century hobby that has zero relevance in the real world.

I didn't bring up Zionism. You did (Post #6), because you clearly view these genetic charts as a political scoreboard. If you’re genuinely interested in Yemenite Jewish history, that’s great. But if you’re just looking for genetic gotchas to invalidate a group's identity, it’s transparent and, frankly, quite boring.

[Sonny001]

If we play this mental gymnastics then we can say that R nationalists are descendants of Negrito Hoabinhian people and the whole Yamnaya superiority is nonsense. Yamnaya, Magyars, Turks, Mongols were rapists that enslaved other groups and formed coalitions.

[Isinimo]

If we play this mental gymnastics then we can say that R nationalists are descendants of Negrito Hoabinhian people and the whole Yamnaya superiority is nonsense. Yamnaya, Magyars, Turks, Mongols were rapists that enslaved other groups and formed coalitions.

That needs to be common knowledge.

[ScandinavianCelt]

https://i.postimg.cc/3xsJN6Xz/frie6qvxf0ee1.webp

Most of the R1b looks to be under R1b-Z2103 and the P-M45 is misread Q and it funnily seems to be virtually all under Q1a-L330.

I even share a subclade under J2 with these guys, and only these guys (one individual though). TRMCA 5500 YBP. (https://jewishdna.net/AB-693.html)

43% J-M304 - 37% K-M9 - 17% E-M35 - 3% Other (G, L, A etc)

DNAGenics gives me a downstream branch of R1b-Z2103 --> they give me R-Z201. They also say the result is with "strong confidence". That would mean my 23andMe result of M167(SRY2627) branch is wrong, and my male bloodline is actually more Balkan/Southeastern.

Is there some RSID marker to look for to confirm the Z201 or Z2103? On an interesting note, I do show Yemen Jew on many chromosomes, up to 23% on chr 14, when using the raw K36 calculator.

Both 23andMe and DNAGenics give me the H1e for my maternal group.

[Opie]

R1b-Z2103 is not really European. My Y-Haplo is R1b-Z2103 and and 0% European DNA, about 30% of Assyrians carry R1b-Z2103.

It’s Yamnaya haplo and definitely European.

[Steven Parker]

Yemenite Jews as a verification test for autosomal DNA

A slightly off-subject point, but one that matters a lot for how Jewish population genetics gets discussed:

Yemenite Jews are a very good verification test for the value of autosomal DNA over uniparental haplogroups.


Older uniparental studies, especially the Hammer and Shen-era Y-DNA literature, are often treated as if Y-DNA or mtDNA alone can define the ancestry of an entire population. That is exactly where the problem begins.

Haplogroups can drift heavily through founder effects, bottlenecks, and lineage survival. Autosomal DNA gives a much broader picture of total ancestry.

This matters because we are repeatedly told that Jewish populations genetically cluster closer to other Jewish populations than to their non-Jewish host populations.


Diaspora Jews from Europe, Northwest Africa, and the Near East resemble each other more closely than they resemble their non-Jewish neighbors.

That claim was always incomplete at best. In my opinion, it was a lie by omission when applied to Ashkenazi Jews, because the “host populations” used as the metric were often Poles, Germans, Russians, or other Northern and Eastern Europeans.

That comparison was rigged from the start.

It ignored Southern Italy, Sicily, Aegean Greeks, and Romaniote/Italian Jewish history. It also ignored the later migration of Southern Italian Jews into the Rhineland, where Ashkenazi Jewish population history actually developed.

So what happens when you measure Ashkenazi autosomal distance against a wider swath of Europeans and then compare that to Yemenite Jews?

See for yourself:

https://i.postimg.cc/t493LTtq/Screenshot-2026-07-08-at-12-54-44-North-African-Modern-(by-Al-Qastalli)-Explore-Your-DNA-Calculator.png

In this run, Ashkenazi_Russia is closer to Italian_Calabria and Italian_Bergamo than to Yemenite_Jew. Portugal, Spanish_Andalucia, Swiss_German, French_Paris, Austrian, and German all fall between or around that range, while Yemenite_Jew is much farther away.

That does not mean Ashkenazim are simply “Italian” in a modern national sense. It means the autosomal clustering is Central Mediterranean, especially Southern Italian / Greco-Roman, not Northern or Eastern European.

This is exactly the signal that gets erased when the comparison set is built around Germans, Poles, and Russians while Southern Italians and Italian Jews are ignored.

Now look again at Yemenite Jews.

https://i.postimg.cc/Dw3s1zY5/Screenshot-2026-07-08-at-12-57-49-North-African-Modern-(by-Al-Qastalli)-Explore-Your-DNA-Calculator.png

Yemenite Jews cluster very closely with Muslim Yemenite populations autosomally. In the first screenshot, Yemenite_Jew is closest to Yemenite_Ma'rib, Yemenite_Al_Jawf, Yemenite_Al_Bayda, Yemenite_Dhamar, Yemenite_Amran, and Yemenite_Mahra.

This fits the historical reality of Jewish communities in Yemen, including conversion and population formation in the Himyarite period. Nobody treats this as some impossible modeling error. Nobody says Yemenite Jews only look Yemenite because of some artificial pull from unrelated sources.

Even if Yemenite Jews have divergent uniparental markers because of drift, founder effects, or lineage-specific survival, the autosomal DNA still keeps the broader population signal intact.

That is the analogy.

Yemenite Jews are close to Muslim Yemenite populations autosomally despite having uniparental patterns that can differ.

Ashkenazi Jews are close to Central Mediterranean Greco-Roman populations autosomally despite having uniparental patterns that can differ.

The difference is that one case is accepted at face value, while the other is constantly explained away.

For Ashkenazim, we are told the Southern Italian / Central Mediterranean position must be some modeling artifact: an Israelite paternal layer mixed with Northern Italian, German, or Slavic ancestry, supposedly pulling Ashkenazim into Southern Italian PCA space by coincidence.

But that explanation leaves out the obvious historical and genetic control: Italian Jews.

Italian Jews occupy the same general PCA and FST space without needing the same later Eastern European migration history. That is a falsification test against the idea that Ashkenazi Southern Italian affinity is just an artificial byproduct of later admixture.

The simpler explanation is the historical one:

Ashkenazi Jews descend substantially from the core population of Italian Jewry, formed in the Greco-Roman Central Mediterranean world, especially Southern Italy, before later movement into the Rhineland and beyond.

Yemenite Jews prove the larger methodological point. Autosomal DNA can preserve the real population-level signal even when uniparental haplogroups are noisy, drifted, or founder-skewed.

That is why autosomal clustering matters more than old haplogroup storytelling.

[black hole]

True European is I1/I2, R1b/R1a is Asian. Yamnaya is a product of CHG+EHG admixture.

[chinshen]

True European is I1/I2, R1b/R1a is Asian. Yamnaya is a product of CHG+EHG admixture.

Great, more than half of European populations are Asians.

[ScandinavianCelt]

True European is I1/I2, R1b/R1a is Asian. Yamnaya is a product of CHG+EHG admixture.

WHG and Basque and then Farmers all arrived in Europe before the Yamnaya. My R1b-DF27 is listed as Basque, so it's all very confusing.

[Isinimo]

Great, more than half of European populations are Asians.

East Asians *

[Isinimo]

DNAGenics gives me a downstream branch of R1b-Z2103 --> they give me R-Z201. They also say the result is with "strong confidence". That would mean my 23andMe result of M167(SRY2627) branch is wrong, and my male bloodline is actually more Balkan/Southeastern.

Is there some RSID marker to look for to confirm the Z201 or Z2103? On an interesting note, I do show Yemen Jew on many chromosomes, up to 23% on chr 14, when using the raw K36 calculator.

Both 23andMe and DNAGenics give me the H1e for my maternal group.

There is actually a Yemenite Jew with R-DF27

https://jewishdna.net/AB-533.html

[Opie]

There is actually a Yemenite Jew with R-DF27

https://jewishdna.net/AB-533.html

Lost Irish

[chinshen]

East Asians *

He didn't specify. It does not matter, Asian is Asian.

[Isinimo]

Lost Irish

Spanix *


He didn't specify. It does not matter, Asian is Asian.

I mean either that or Pakistani pick your poison mate.

[black hole]

WHG and Basque and then Farmers all arrived in Europe before the Yamnaya. My R1b-DF27 is listed as Basque, so it's all very confusing.



Weren't I males natives to Europe since Ice Age?

[ScandinavianCelt]

Weren't I males natives to Europe since Ice Age?

Probably.

I believe the oldest y-dna haplogroup is U5 out of Ukraine, but I've read studies putting the Basque in Veneto 16k ybp, and 15k ybp in their current location, generally speaking, in Spain. So, both those groups pre-date the ancient Nordic y-dna.

[Isinimo]

Probably.

I believe the oldest y-dna haplogroup is U5 out of Ukraine, but I've read studies putting the Basque in Veneto 16k ybp, and 15k ybp in their current location, generally speaking, in Spain. So, both those groups pre-date the ancient Nordic y-dna.

U5 isn't a Y-DNA haplogroup. It's a WHG-specific maternal haplogroup.

[Isinimo]

Weren't I males natives to Europe since Ice Age?

Yes maybe even earlier than that.