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Beorn
05-02-2009, 01:52 AM
Pregnant Briton may face firing squad over Laos drugs charge

A pregnant British woman is facing trial and possibly the death penalty in Laos (http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/laos) next week after being arrested on drug trafficking charges. The woman's MP, Harriet Harman (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/harrietharman), the leader of the House of Commons, has made representations on her behalf and the Foreign Office has been urged to intervene.Samantha Orobator, 20, was arrested at Wattay airport, Vientiane, in August last year, in possession of 0.6kg (about one and a half pounds) of heroin. According to the human rights group, Reprieve, she has not had access to a lawyer and the British government only became aware of her detention several months after her arrest.

"She has been held in the notoriously abusive Phonthong prison, where she became pregnant :eek: in early December," said Reprieve. "There are many reports of abuse and several deaths, including that of a British national last year. Conditions in the prison remain harsh and the diet is dangerously inadequate. Samantha is severely distressed, and Reprieve has grave concerns for her health and that of her unborn child."

If convicted next week, Orobator faces execution by firing squad in a country where 39 people have received the death penalty in the last five years. Clive Stafford Smith, of Reprieve, has called on the British government to make urgent representations on behalf of Orobator.
Born in Nigeria in 1988, Orobator moved to the UK when she was eight years old and was raised by an aunt in south London. Her uncle, who was described as her father figure, was killed in Nigeria and the family were later given asylum status. Her mother now lives in Dublin with her three younger siblings and her father in Lagos.

Described as a "bright and friendly" pupil by her former teachers, she was in a number of abusive relationships in her teens. She was hospitalised on one occasion in 2005 after being beaten by a violent boyfriend. She has attempted to commit suicide on several occasions.
In July last year, she said she was going to the Netherlands for a holiday. From there she went to Thailand before travelling on to Laos. The amount of heroin she was caught with exceeds the statutory minimum for the death penalty, which was adopted for drug trafficking offences in Laos in 2000. There is no evidence that she was anything more than a mule, according to Reprieve, which says that her friends are adamant that she was not a drug user. She had no prior convictions in the UK.

It would appear that Orobator became pregnant in December although she is in an all-female prison. It is not clear whether or not the pregnancy was voluntary, according to Reprieve, which believes that she is not receiving proper ante-natal care. There are fears that she may suffer a miscarriage, of which she has a past record.
The Foreign Office confirmed that Orobator had been detained and was facing the death penalty. "The British government is opposed to the use of the death penalty in all circumstances," it said. "We are providing consular assistance in particular to help ensure that she has good legal representation. We are paying close attention to her welfare and are in discussion with the Laotian authorities about her case."

The Foreign Office minister Bill Rammell will raise the matter when the Laotian foreign minister visits the UK next week, but there are concerns that the trial may already have taken place by then. Harman's office confirmed that she had contacted the Foreign Office and asked it to take urgent action.
"It's absolutely no coincidence that yesterday the Laotians announced that they were moving her trial up probably by a year to next week," said Stafford Smith. "It's pretty shocking that they would do that, apparently to avoid her seeing a British lawyer, before she has to go to trial. The notion that no lawyer should be appointed to defend her is outrageous."


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/5/1/1241208870446/Samantha-Orobator-trial-001.jpg



Source (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/01/drugs-heroin-laos-death-smuggling)

Vargtand
05-02-2009, 02:11 AM
Alright so much for British, still I find it... on one hand sure you should be punished by the laws in the land you are arrested.. But still as a citizen of an other nation you should be protected by your own nation.. I am a bit thorn in this question...

SwordoftheVistula
05-02-2009, 09:19 AM
Laos isn't exactly a popular tourist destination, so obviously she went there for the sole purpose of participating in a drug smuggling operation. I guess Laos doesn't want to become like Mexico, or Columbia and Peru used to be, controlled by drug cartels.

Lulletje Rozewater
05-04-2009, 08:20 AM
Laos isn't exactly a popular tourist destination, so obviously she went there for the sole purpose of participating in a drug smuggling operation. I guess Laos doesn't want to become like Mexico, or Columbia and Peru used to be, controlled by drug cartels.
Her photo-smiling- is the innocent self.
What a joke when you see her mother.
I tend to agree with you.
I feel washers for drug smugglers.

SwordoftheVistula
05-04-2009, 08:33 AM
Her photo-smiling- is the innocent self.
What a joke when you see her mother.
I tend to agree with you.
I feel washers for drug smugglers.

Yeah, I don't think drugs should be banned, but the reason drug smugglers make so much money is because it is a highly illegal and dangerous activity. She just got too greedy for her own good, if the Laos govt hadn't bagged her, a rival drug gang (or her own) likely would have eventually offered her.

The Lawspeaker
05-04-2009, 12:46 PM
So much for being British.
I would guess that her ancestry rests somewhere else in the Commonwealth ?
What a woman: smuggling drugs into a country where this would mean facing the firing squad AND getting pregnant in prison.
But then again- how the hell did she manage to get pregnant in a all-female prison ??

Well... the firing squad will have a field day: 2 for the price of 1. "sighs"

Beorn
05-04-2009, 01:10 PM
What a woman btw: pregnant and then smuggling drugs to a country where capture would mean the firing squad which would not only kill her but her unborn child too.

She became pregnant inside the prison.

To be fair to the woman, I would hope that the British government give her a fair deal in extracting her and her unborn child from the clutches of the Laos prison.

That isn't to say that when she arrives back home that she should be freed and built up as some kind of misguided and repentant women trapped and ensnared by the horrid drug smugglers, but several years inside a British prison and then resettlement back to Nigeria instead.

It's obvious that the woman has had a tough ride in this life and no human deserves to treated the way they treat humans in Laos. British or not.

The Lawspeaker
05-04-2009, 01:15 PM
She became pregnant inside the prison.

To be fair to the woman, I would hope that the British government give her a fair deal in extracting her and her unborn child from the clutches of the Laos prison.Yes.. I misread. I still wonder how she did it because she was in an all-female prison.

And by the way she isn't British. Why should the government bother ?
I don't think that the British government should give her a fair deal. She has one now since she bloody well knew what she was getting into.

Lady L
05-04-2009, 01:32 PM
They put you to death for a drug conviction..? :confused:

Beorn
05-04-2009, 01:35 PM
Yes.. I misread. I still wonder how she did it because she was in an all-female prison.

Sorry, I saw you had edited after I had submitted my post, but I couldn't be bothered to edit it :D

As for how she got pregnant in an all female prison, I would hazard a guess at many things. One being the profitable trade of selling the services of inmates to men with a penchant for incarcerated women, or a male guard with an itch for black women, perhaps?



And by the way she isn't British. Why should the government bother ?

I'm not British either. 'British' is a political tag invented to encapsulate the nations and people of those nations, ie: England, Wales, Scotland.

I am an Englishman who holds a British passport. This woman is a Nigerian born woman who holds a British passport.
If she was to say she was English, now there I would have a rant and a rave about.

So, in my eyes, she is a British citizen and deserves to be helped and tried by a British government.

Beorn
05-10-2009, 03:07 PM
'Say you weren't raped in jail and we'll let you live', pregnant British woman told in Laos prison (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1179945/Say-werent-raped-jail-let-live-pregnant-British-woman-told-Laos-prison.html)

A pregnant British woman arrested for heroin-smuggling in Laos has been told she must testify in court that she was not raped in prison in order to escape the firing squad.Samantha Orobator, who is five months pregnant, was arrested in August at Wattay airport in the capital Vientiane for trying to smuggle 1.5lb of heroin.
The 20-year-old from South London goes on trial this week and will be asked to declare publicly that she was not raped in Phonthong prison, one of Asia’s most squalid jails.

If Orobator co-operates, she will be transferred from Laos to a UK prison under a new treaty signed between the two countries on Thursday, but if not, her trial will be postponed and she will return to jail in Laos.If she faces trial again after the birth of her child, she will not have the immunity from execution that pregnancy gives her under the Laos penal code.

Beorn
05-10-2009, 03:09 PM
Yes.. I misread. I still wonder how she did it because she was in an all-female prison.

Here you go: A French former inmate who spent five months there in the Nineties said: ‘Female prisoners were coerced into sex with promises from guards that they would get them off the death penalty, get them a shorter sentence or make life inside more comfortable for them.’

Atlas
05-10-2009, 03:18 PM
Laos, Thailand, Myanmar have a very strict anti-drug policy, I recall two israelis were sentenced to the death penalty some months ago in Thailand, haven't heard of that story since then. I don't wish them death over something like drug-smuggling but they certainly aren't smart either.

SwordoftheVistula
05-11-2009, 08:41 AM
So, in my eyes, she is a British citizen and deserves to be helped and tried by a British government.

The alleged crime didn't occur in Britain though. Criminal trials are always in the jurisdiction and tried under the laws of where the alleged crime occurred. Otherwise, all the Pakistanis and Afghans in Britain would demand to be tried under Pakistani or Afghan law whenever they got arrested for something.

Beorn
05-11-2009, 09:03 AM
The alleged crime didn't occur in Britain though. Criminal trials are always in the jurisdiction and tried under the laws of where the alleged crime occurred. Otherwise, all the Pakistanis and Afghans in Britain would demand to be tried under Pakistani or Afghan law whenever they got arrested for something.

I understand that, however much I disagree with it, but the woman is merely a tourist and not a long term resident.
The Pakistanis and Afghans I assume you refer to are not tourists, but settled members in Britain. Therefore, subject to the laws of their new land.

SwordoftheVistula
05-11-2009, 02:55 PM
I understand that, however much I disagree with it, but the woman is merely a tourist and not a long term resident.
The Pakistanis and Afghans I assume you refer to are not tourists, but settled members in Britain. Therefore, subject to the laws of their new land.

Still, even tourists in Britain are subject to British laws. If for example I got caught with a gun there, I'd be in a huge amount of trouble, even if it's legal in the US.

Beorn
05-11-2009, 04:46 PM
Still, even tourists in Britain are subject to British laws. If for example I got caught with a gun there, I'd be in a huge amount of trouble, even if it's legal in the US.

I'd have to wonder what on earth you were doing with a gun; on holiday; in England. :D

"Throw the book at him, M'lud!"

In all seriousness, I would have you fined and then released into American justice. I'm supposing the authorities would then release you, but you would be several pounds/dollars lighter and have no right to enter Britain again.

It would depend on the crime in the end.

SwordoftheVistula
05-12-2009, 05:40 AM
I'd have to wonder what on earth you were doing with a gun; on holiday; in England. :D

"Throw the book at him, M'lud!"

In all seriousness, I would have you fined and then released into American justice. I'm supposing the authorities would then release you, but you would be several pounds/dollars lighter and have no right to enter Britain again.

It would depend on the crime in the end.

I'm not aware of any country that actually does that. Besides, this woman isn't a tourist of any sort, she went to the country with the sole purpose of participating in organized crime.

Treffie
05-12-2009, 09:18 AM
I'd have to wonder what on earth you were doing with a gun; on holiday; in England. :D

"Throw the book at him, M'lud!"

In all seriousness, I would have you fined and then released into American justice. I'm supposing the authorities would then release you, but you would be several pounds/dollars lighter and have no right to enter Britain again.

It would depend on the crime in the end.


Or depend if the nations have an extradition treaty perhaps?

SwordoftheVistula
05-12-2009, 11:30 AM
Or depend if the nations have an extradition treaty.

The extradition treaty is for when you commit a crime in one country and then go to another: for example, if she had fled back to Britain, Laos could have attempt to have her extradited from Britain back to Laos to stand trial there.

The issue of deporting 'criminal aliens' is a different matter: for example this women is considered a 'criminal alien' in Laos, as I would be if I were arrested in the UK, or the numerous citizens of Mexico, China, etc arrested in the US.

First the country where the criminal alien is held has to decide to attempt to deport said person, and then they have to negotiate for the country of origin to take back the person. So in the case of this woman, first the Laotian government would have to order her deported, and then the Laotian and British or Nigerian governments would have to negotiate an agreement for one of those countries to take her back.

It is extremely rare for a country to demand the repatriation of citizens held in foreign countries for crimes committed in other countries, usually this happens in instances of people held on espionage or terrorism charges, and then the return only happens as a diplomatic favor or concession.

Beorn
05-22-2009, 06:19 PM
Laos 'drug-mule' may have artificially inseminated herself in prison to escape death penalty (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1186331/Laos-drug-mule-artificially-inseminated-prison-escape-death-penalty.html)

A British woman held on drugs charges in Laos may have become pregnant by artificial insemination, it has been claimed.
Authorities are postponing the trial of Samantha Orobator, 20, until the truth about her pregnancy is known.
The Londoner was facing the death penalty if convicted of smuggling heroin - but now is facing a life sentence instead as pregnant women cannot be executed under Laos law.

Police have determined that she became pregnant while inside the Laos prison - and now her trial has been halted until until she comes clean about who got her pregnant in the notorious Phonthong Prison for Foreigners in the capital Vientiane.
Laos authorities are now investigating the possibility that Samantha may have impregnated herself with another prisoner's sperm, perhaps to avoid the mandatory death sentence.

Their suspicion has been fuelled by the fact that she had a syringe amongst her personal possessions, allegedly because she had 'woman's problems'.


The plot thickens.