Do You Like Having A Monarchy?

[The Dragonslayer]

I've been watching a series on PBS on the British monarchy. It follows the Queen around throughout her royal duties and such. It's been quite fascinating to watch. I love the sense of tradition that is carried on. There are so many amazing ceremonies and events that take place throughout the year. My question is to anybody living in the UK. Do you support having a monarchy or would you like it to be done away with?

[Saksenland]

No! Modern Monarchies are a joke. I however preciate the old dynasties such as Hohenzollern, Romanovs, Habsburg with actually power.

[Oresai]

I`m Scottish by birth. I don`t recognise the English royal family even though they own a great deal of Scotland. The Queen herself has declared that Scotland will never gain independance.
Off with their heads! :D:thumbs up

[The Dragonslayer]

Thanks for the responses. As an American, my ancestors here fought for their independence from George III. There is still a fascination here with the Royal Family over there.

[Skandi]

The Queen is my monarch and I will support her to the end, I would like to see the monarchy brought back to power and the present useles democracy ended.

[The Dragonslayer]

The Queen is my monarch and I will support her to the end, I would like to see the monarchy brought back to power and the present useles democracy ended.

I think that sounds great. It's awesome to hear a Brit who is a fan of the monarchy and actually wants it to have more power.

[Oisín]

The Queen is my monarch and I will support her to the end, I would like to see the monarchy brought back to power and the present useles democracy ended.
I can never understand why some people fawn over this woman who has overseen her country's descent into a multicultural hell hole. This monarch hasn't just stood by and said nothing she actually cheer leads the destruction of her country and her people. And yet you celebrate her? Bizarre.

[Skandi]

It doesn't matter really what she does, one has a lord and one follows them otherwise there is no point. Since Balmoral is covering for their employer on the BNP list I hardly think she encourages it. Equally under the present political system there is absolutly zero that she can do about it, even if Prince Philip does try!

[Oisín]

It doesn't matter really what she does, one has a lord and one follows them otherwise there is no point.
That's got to be one of the most pathetic things I've ever read. You don't care that under Queen Elizabeth II's watch your country has turned into a multicultural mess where the natives are treated as second class citizens.
It's true you know, people get the leaders they deserve.

[Loyalist]

In Canada, we have an identical system of government as the United Kingdom, including the Monarch, and I am a staunch supporter of her role here. The Queen, and the institution which she has propelled into the modern era, is an integral element of our nation's history and identity, both as Canada and the United Kingdom are concerned.

[Oisín]

In Canada, we have an identical system of government as the United Kingdom, including the Monarch, and I am a staunch supporter of her role here.
What exactly is her role?

The Queen, and the institution which she has propelled into the modern era, is an integral element of our nation's history and identity, both as Canada and the United Kingdom are concerned.
So you don't care that under her watch parts of the United Kingdom now resemble Africa and Pakistan?
I'm sure she's tickled pink to know she has such devout followers but blind loyalty to a multiculturalism loving Queen wont do the UK any favours in the long run.

[Beorn]

I`m Scottish by birth. I don`t recognise the English royal family even though they own a great deal of Scotland. The Queen herself has declared that Scotland will never gain independance.
Off with their heads! :D:thumbs up

Please bear in mind that the Queen Elizabeth II is the child of a Scot.


Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom (http://tripatlas.com/Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom) is the daughter of George VI (http://tripatlas.com/George_VI_of_the_United_Kingdom), the second-eldest son of George V (http://tripatlas.com/George_V_of_the_United_Kingdom) and Mary of Teck (http://tripatlas.com/Mary_of_Teck); and of Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon (http://tripatlas.com/Elizabeth_Bowes-Lyon) (later Queen Elizabeth, and, after her daughter's accession to the throne, the Queen Mother (http://tripatlas.com/English_and_British_Queen_Mothers)), the daughter of Claude George Bowes-Lyon, 14th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne (http://tripatlas.com/Claude_Bowes-Lyon,_14th_Earl_of_Strathmore_and_Kinghorne) and his wife, Nina Cecilia Cavendish-Bentinck, the Countess of Strathmore and Kinghorne (http://tripatlas.com/Nina_Bowes-Lyon,_Countess_of_Strathmore_and_Kinghorne).
Queen Elizabeth is the male-line great-granddaughter of Edward VII (http://tripatlas.com/Edward_VII_of_the_United_Kingdom), who inherited the crown from his mother, Queen Victoria. His father, Victoria's consort, was Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (http://tripatlas.com/Albert,_Prince_Consort); hence Queen Elizabeth is a patrilineal descendant of Albert's family, the German princely House of Wettin (http://tripatlas.com/House_of_Wettin). (Other notable members of this house are King Albert II of Belgium (http://tripatlas.com/Albert_II_of_Belgium) and former King Simeon II of Bulgaria (http://tripatlas.com/Simeon_II_of_Bulgaria).) Traced as far as possible, Elizabeth's male-line ancestry stretches back to Conrad the Great (http://tripatlas.com/Conrad_the_Great) of Meissen; see Patrilineal descent of Elizabeth II (http://tripatlas.com/Patrilineal_descent_of_Elizabeth_II).
Through Victoria, as well as several other of her great-great-grandparents, Elizabeth is directly descended from many British royals: from the House of Stuart (http://tripatlas.com/House_of_Stuart), from Robert the Bruce (http://tripatlas.com/Robert_the_Bruce), and earlier Scottish royal houses; from the House of Tudor (http://tripatlas.com/House_of_Tudor) and earlier English royal houses stretching back as far as the 7th century House of Wessex (http://tripatlas.com/House_of_Wessex).
As a great-great-granddaughter of Queen Victoria, she is related to the heads of most other reigning and non-reigning European royal houses. Through her great-grandmother Queen Alexandra (http://tripatlas.com/Alexandra_of_Denmark), she is descended from the Danish royal house of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg, a line of the North German house of Oldenburg (http://tripatlas.com/Oldenburg), one of the oldest in Europe. (Other members of the House of Glücksburg include Elizabeth's husband, Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh (http://tripatlas.com/Prince_Philip,_Duke_of_Edinburgh) as well as Margrethe II of Denmark (http://tripatlas.com/Margrethe_II_of_Denmark), Harald V of Norway (http://tripatlas.com/Harald_V_of_Norway), Queen Sofia of Spain (http://tripatlas.com/Queen_Sofia_of_Spain) and former King Constantine II of Greece (http://tripatlas.com/Constantine_II_of_Greece) — each of whom is also descended from Queen Victoria.) Elizabeth is likewise descendant of Johan Willem Friso, Prince of Orange (http://tripatlas.com/Johan_Willem_Friso,_Prince_of_Orange) (1687 – 1711), who is a common ancestor (http://tripatlas.com/Common_ancestor) to all reigning European royal houses.

Source (http://tripatlas.com/Ancestry_of_Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom)

In one way or another, she is the Scottish monarch more than she is the English monarch.

[Oresai]

please forgive my bad typing. i have tennis elbow and am currently one handed, and left handed at that (i`m right handed)
i disgree. she may be the child of a scots mother but tell me precisely what she has done to benefit scotland, without trotting out the old `tourism` rubbish. (we can do that on our own, thanks.)
ANY monarch who states firmly that a country will NEVER be independant, surely belongs among the traitors to that very country.
we shall have to agree to disagree on the matter, as with many other topics relating to england and scotland, no?

[Skandi]

Why would a monarch (of any nationality) want her country to be split into small parts?

[Oresai]

well, i work on the old fashioned premise that for one to be a monarch of a country, one has to benefit that country. considering how much land and wealth the monarchy has on behalf of scotland, and how little they return....yup, i see them, on the news, visiting balmoral etc, with the locals trotted out to clap and cheer, and little else...and considering that there`s a lot of scots with the old fashioned and long held view that a monarch, king or queen, must DESERVE that role, well...i just do not see the modern monarchy as deserving of the title.
the united kingdom is not the monarch`s `country`, but a group of individual nations. when the union took place, scots nobles and commoners took to the streets in protest. it went ahead regardless of the fact that the scots majority did not want it.
when the referendum for scottish independance happens, i wonder how many of the votes will sway the final decision, born of english and other incomers, and how many of those will outnumber native scots?

[Beorn]

...but tell me precisely what she has done to benefit scotland...

Does she need to? What have you done to benefit Scotland?
Is a sense of purpose the hallmark of being royalty?

[Oresai]

yes, as monarch of scotland, she absolutely DOES need to benefit the country. otherwise, what is the point of a monarch?
as for me...i am no monarch, but belong to a political party which does benefit scotland and work locally to improve my environment in small but real ways.
what else would you have me do? tsk... :p shall we keep this about the royals?

[Beorn]

yes, as monarch of scotland, she absolutely DOES need to benefit the country. otherwise, what is the point of a monarch?


Perhaps previous monarchs may have needed to benefit the country they reigned over, but the Queen is a mere figurehead today.
The point of a monarch is to hold some ties with our past, our ancestors, and our heritage.

I see no problem with the current tradition.

[Oresai]

that`s ok, i`m sure we can agree to disagree on the matter. when i read of how much money she reins in from her scottish properties and investments, i simply don`t think she is justified. when i read of her refusal to admit scotland deserves her own government untied to westminster, then i absolutely do not think she has scotland`s best interests at heart.
it makes sense that an english person would support a monarchy who reins over more than their own country...from your point of view it may give her more clout. :)
i believe, however, that a figurehead who rakes in so much money, who owns so much land, yet who cannot see that a country would profit so much more from home rule, is more akin to a millstone around our necks than an asset to be proud of.
i also don`t see why ANY monarch even nowadays, should not benefit the country they claim to rule over. that makes them, imo, a total waste of space. :)

[Arrow Cross]

The Queen is my monarch and I will support her to the end, I would like to see the monarchy brought back to power and the present useles democracy ended.
That sounds good, although as of today, all the traditional institutions like the Papacy and the monarch dynasties fell prey to the egalitarian, multikulti poison of our times. They could heavily influence the masses with their authority and they couldn't be easily removed for "being waycist". I greatly despise them.

[Arundel]

I`m Scottish by birth. I don`t recognise the English royal family even though they own a great deal of Scotland. The Queen herself has declared that Scotland will never gain independance.
Off with their heads! :D:thumbs up

Prince of Wales title:
I think it is very demeaning for the English monarchy to use the title "Prince of Wales." It is bad enough that they subjugate Wales, but to give the heir to the English throne the prince of wales title is even worse.
Recently I learned that my Welch ancestors were very active in medieval warfare, attempting to drive the Normans from southern Wales. Their name was apOwen, and it is referred to in the Domesday book as "Owen from whence came Bowen." My families earliest records used the name Owen and then later on they used Bowen. One of them actually bore the title of "Prince of Southern Wales."
That is when the title actually belonged to a welchman, and had not yet been stolen by the English.

[Arundel]

Thanks for the responses. As an American, my ancestors here fought for their independence from George III. There is still a fascination here with the Royal Family over there.

There is no fascination with this American. I had several ancestors in the Revolutionary War. I tend to be more aggressive by nature, than my husband is, he is rather passive. I tell him if we were all like him, we would still belong to England.

I have read too much English history in the past to have any respect for the monarchy. Remember when they used to brag that the sun never sets on England, and think of all the foreign countries big and small that they had taken over by force, such as India for the tea trade.

I am about 95% English, and admire England a great deal, in fact I wish my ancestors had stayed there. So it isn't England that I am bashing, it is their past politics.

[Fortis in Arduis]

The House of Tudor was a prominent European royal house that ruled the Kingdom of England and its realms from 1485 until 1603. Its first monarch Henry Tudor, descended paternally from the rulers of the Welsh principality of Deheubarth, and maternally from a legitimized branch of the English royal House of Lancaster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tudor_dynasty

England and Wales where united by a Welsh family.

[Hilding]

I like the fact that we have a king in Sweden, he has no power but still it must sting in the eye of the prime minister that he may rule Sweden but he is NOT king!
All the commies want to end monarchy, they claim economical reasons but please compare the amount of cash that goes to immigrants compared to what our little royal family gets.

[Atlas]

I don't know, our last King and Queen were beheaded more than 200 years ago.

[Freomæg]

Queen Elizabeth II, head of state of the United Kingdom and of 31 other states and territories, is the legal owner of about 6,600 million acres of land, one sixth of the earth’s non ocean surface.

She is the only person on earth who owns whole countries, and who owns countries that are not her own domestic territory. This land ownership is separate from her role as head of state and is different from other monarchies where no such claim is made – Norway, Belgium, Denmark etc.

The value of her land holding. £17,600,000,000,000 (approx).
Who Owns the World? (http://www.whoownstheworld.com/about-the-book/largest-landowner/?ref=patrick.net)

Still think she has no power?

I'm a little torn really. The Monarchy represents a rich British tradition, but in practical terms they are not the best thing for the people of Britain. I tend to feel that the Monarchy have far more power than is publically admitted. I just don't think that such a long legacy of wealth and power hands over control quite so easily.

I suppose my answer would be that I do like having a Monarchy, but I would much prefer it if its influence and land-ownership were more akin to the Monarchies of, say, the Scandinavian countries.

[Fortis in Arduis]

I think that we desperately need co-operative economics and direct democracy.

All of these institutions are perfectly fine in principle, but their self-interests are destroying our nations.

They do not define us, we define them, and it is time for us to devolve from, but not decapitate, the monarchy, the banking system, the Anglican Church, the education system, Westminster.

What else can I say other than 'vote BNP'? They are the only hope, and in the face of these institutions, it is amazing that they exist at all. :wink

If we miss this opportunity we are screwed.

[Æmeric]

I don't know, our last King and Queen were beheaded more than 200 years ago.

The Bourbons were restored in 1814, deposed by Napoleon in 1815, restored by the allies the same year. Deposed in the Revolution of 1830 & replaced by the opportunist populist Louis Phillippe, Duc d'Orleans, who reigned as the "King of the French" until 1848. And then there Napoleon III who was the Emperor of the French until 1870. France is so lucky, I believe there are at least 3 competing pretenders to the non existent throne of France.

[Birka]

Thanks for the responses. As an American, my ancestors here fought for their independence from George III. There is still a fascination here with the Royal Family over there.

I must politely disagree here. I think most of my American friends are in fascination with why the British people put up with this incredibly expensive farce. We rebelled against this sort of thing, set up a Constitution were all have an equal chance at our freedoms. No man bows to another in the US, that is until Ombongo reverted to his slave mode in front of his Saudi King.

I think the monarchy has made huge errors for centuries, for example, if King George III had given up a little more, the colonies (us) might not have had our rebellion. And now look at the degradation of the UK under this queen. Is she worth her salary?


BTW, just what is her salary? How much does the royal family cost the taxpayers of the UK per year?

[Skandi]

BTW, just what is her salary? How much does the royal family cost the taxpayers of the UK per year?


She doesn't have a salary.

The entire royal family cost 66p per person in 2008
source (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/queen-and-royals-cost-66p-per-person-855744.html)

I can cope with 66p I pay a damn sight more for the idiots in Westminster

[Birka]

OK, 40 million pounds for upkeep. What about the value of all the lands the royalty owns? Do they deserve to own all that property? Could all that property be put to better use and ownership? How much income would be generated if that property was put up for sale and then generated taxes?

Does Charles deserve the 16 million pounds he gets from his properties? Because he was born to the right parents?

[Æmeric]

She doesn't have a salary.

The entire royal family cost 66p per person in 2008
source (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/queen-and-royals-cost-66p-per-person-855744.html)

I can cope with 66p I pay a damn sight more for the idiots in Westminster
The Queen surrenders the revenue from the Crown Estates in return for a civil list annuity from Parliament. The Crown Estates are essentially a property profolio, the most valuable parts being realestate in Central London (Westminster). The total cost of running the monarchy - civil list, grants-in-aid etc.. runs to about £40 million a year. The revenue from the Crown Estates surrender to Parliament is over £200 million per year. The Queen keeps the revenue from the Duchy of Lancaster, which amount to about £12 million a year. The Prince of Wales is entitled to the income from the Duchy of Cornwall, about £16 million per year.

An elected or appointed head of state would cost Britain a least as much as a monarch. And there would be joustling among cabinet ministers over who would get which apartment in which palace. As bad as the British Royals are (and Queen Elizabeth II has reign over a disasterous era, socially & politically, for the UK) an elected president would be worst. Imagine Lord President Tony Blair & First Lady Cherie Booth.:rolleyes2:

[RoyBatty]

I'm sort of indifferent towards it but then again, every Court needs a clown and they are brilliant at supplying us with an endless stream of tabloid fodder. :)

[Skandi]

Does Charles deserve the 16 million pounds he gets from his properties? Because he was born to the right parents?

Does anybody deserve their parents inheritance? Or should it be surrendered to the state?

[stormlord]

OK, 40 million pounds for upkeep. What about the value of all the lands the royalty owns? Do they deserve to own all that property? Could all that property be put to better use and ownership? How much income would be generated if that property was put up for sale and then generated taxes?

Does Charles deserve the 16 million pounds he gets from his properties? Because he was born to the right parents?

Many people deserve many things, but why do you or I have the right to make those judgements? Are you a communist? Do you not believe in private property? Or the rights of people to bequest their own assets as they see fit? I'm sure there are people out there whose money I could put to better use, does that mean I can take it?

I don't see how the rich aren't entitled to be protected by the same rights and principles ordinary people think they are entitled to.

[Osweo]

I can't wait for when Good King Harry comes along, shunts his brother aside, and starts sorting this country out. ;)

The country always does well under redheads, you all might have noticed. I think it all started going down the pan when Kings started shaving and weren't big fat lecherous monsters any more. I've long fantasised about bumping off the lot of the present lot and putting Brian Blessed in the role he was born for, naturally...

Belloc was talking about something different, but his rhyme fits here too;
And never lose a hold of Nurse,
For fear of finding something worse....

I wouldn't ever want to completely break with our ancient history, but I'm quite in favour of a Nationalist version of the 1680s resolution of the Succession.

[Birka]

Many people deserve many things, but why do you or I have the right to make those judgements? Are you a communist? Do you not believe in private property? Or the rights of people to bequest their own assets as they see fit? I'm sure there are people out there whose money I could put to better use, does that mean I can take it?

I don't see how the rich aren't entitled to be protected by the same rights and principles ordinary people think they are entitled to.


I don't believe that your family should own incredible amounts of a country just because you are "Royal". That word has no meaning to me as an American. Now if your family bought the property, you have every right to it. If it was given to you because you are "royalty", I would say hit the road. I guess its an American thing.

I bought my house and land, and will leave it to my son. No one gave me this property based on my ancestor's relationship to some ruling class extended family.

[Æmeric]

I don't believe that your family should own incredible amounts of a country just because you are "Royal". That word has no meaning to me as an American. Now if your family bought the property, you have every right to it. If it was given to you because you are "royalty", I would say hit the road. I guess its an American thing.

I bought my house and land, and will leave it to my son. No one gave me this property based on my ancestor's relationship to some ruling class extended family.
Your land was granted to William Penn by King Charles II. It was either sold by the Penn family or confiscated during the War of Independence.... eventually it was sold &/or inherited until it came into your possession. Does the fact that it was once owned by the Kings of England invalidate your title to it?

[Birka]

Your land was granted to William Penn by King Charles II. It was either sold by the Penn family or confiscated during the War of Independence.... eventually it was sold &/or inherited until it came into your possession. Does the fact that it was once owned by the Kings of England invalidate your title to it?
No not at all. Did the King come over here and clear and cultivate this land? He claimed the title of this land, but did he really own it? If he did, he could not hold on to it, could he. Should we all give our land back to the Amerindians?

Much of Pennsylvania land was given out in return for service in the Revolutionary War, I have seen the grant title from a former neighbor of mine. Did they have the right to grant the land?
I do not have the answers to these questions. But I own my house and land now because I bought it, no one granted it to me, and it will go to my son.

[Æmeric]

Private property is private property, period. Whether someone chopped down the trees or not is irrelevant to whether they ever owned it or not.

All land in England was confiscated by William the Conqueror & then either granted to the Church or nobility, except what was kept by the King himself. Not respecting the property of the monarch or his/her title puts all private property at risk.

[Birka]

Private property is private property, period. Whether someone chopped down the trees or not is irrelevant to whether they ever owned it or not.

All land in England was confiscated by William the Conqueror & then either granted to the Church or nobility, except what was kept by the King himself. Not respecting the property of the monarch or his/her title puts all private property at risk.

I guess I have a problem then, I respect no monarchy at this time.

[Fortis in Arduis]

Private property is private property, period. Whether someone chopped down the trees or not is irrelevant to whether they ever owned it or not.

All land in England was confiscated by William the Conqueror & then either granted to the Church or nobility, except what was kept by the King himself. Not respecting the property of the monarch or his/her title puts all private property at risk.

Yes, it does, and we do not want to go there.

There are fair ways to tax people to distribute property fairly and a Ministry of Finance would also be able to issue interest free loans, say, to worker who want buy the company they work for and turn it into a co-operative.

Many options.

[Osweo]

There are fair ways to tax people to distribute property fairly

I like your economic ideas usually, but this particular point caused me to wince a bit. It's been tried and never really works. You've got to go deeper than punishing people (which is how they'll inevitably see it). It encourages fiddling, and for every new tax innovation, there's a new fiddle. Trust me. ;) These things always hit the honest middling type feller the hardest, too.

[Osweo]

I putting Brian Blessed in the role he was born for, naturally...

Forgive the vanity of quoting my own post, but it got a great rep comment:

A Blessedocracy - of facial hair and real ale...

I get misty eyed just thinking about the possibility... :p

Actually, though, we should choose someone who's a bit more ideologically not-sitting-on-the-fence. Someone with a beard. Hmm...

Ah! I wouldn't oppose That Rhys Davies Bloke who played the Dwarf Gimli, should he be interested! He's bound to have some King of Powys or the like in his family tree somewhere. :D

[Beorn]

Ah! I wouldn't oppose That Rhys Davies Bloke who played the Dwarf Gimli, should he be interested!

A pro-BNP man too.:thumbs up