Somali pirates, what would YOU do?

[Skandi]

What with all the pirate activity off of the Somali coast recently and the apparent inability of the combined Navies that are attempting to stop it to have a major effect.
The insurance companies have been adding a substantial surcharge for vessels travelling through the area, forcing Ships to go through the expensive Suez canal or take huge detours to avoid the area.

The British government announced today that it won't pay ransoms for the two crew presently being held, but ship owners have been paying out on vessels.

What would you do if you were in charge of bringing order to the area?

Personally I would blow all suspected boats out of the water on sight and not wait for them to show that they are definitely involved in piracy, fishing vessels rarely have 20 young men in them!

[Loki]

Absolutely agreed! We've been treating these subhuman pirates with kid gloves! :mad:

NATO and Russia have enough firepower to blow all those pirates off the planet, so why don't they do it? They even know where they are. What is preventing them? I think political correctness, and the fact that they are Africans ... hence untouchable.

[Æmeric]

Do what the Indian Navy just did, sink the pirate ships. Use deadly force. They are terrorists & criminals, treat them as such.

[Vulpix]

Another one for deadly force ;).

[Alison]

Consider if these were aeroplanes being hijacked...

[SwordoftheVistula]

Yeah, it's BS. Our entire navy is sitting in the Persian Gulf because of the 'threat Iran could cut off oil supplies', these pirates are actually doing it, and we do nothing.

[Skandi]

I'm feeling a little cynical but I guess your government is doing nothing because it isn't losing money over this, and also it would no doubt be unhappy about killing some precious blacks.

[SwordoftheVistula]

I should go become a pirate, it seems to be the only expanding career field in this economy

[Arrow Cross]

I certainly cannot mourn the financial loss of international corporations...they'll hire mercs to protect their ships and they'll either do so, or fail. I have no concern for this little naval drama.

[Revenant]

These days energy is linked to national security. I would chalk this one up to experience if it was up to me and cop the ransom. In future I would offer shipping companies that supplied my countries energy needs the services of our Navy where it might be likely they would be needed.

[Oisín]

I say fair play to them. Them Saudi oil barons have been f*cking the world over for years, I'm delighted to see them caught by the balls.

[Aragorn]

Piracy isn't something new, piracy existed back in the Roman times, and most known in the Caribean 17th-18th century. Why does one become a pirate? I suspect poverty as a main reason.

How to resolve it? Good question:lightbul:

Nuke the entire Somali coast area;)

[Æmeric]

Piracy isn't something new, piracy existed back in the Roman times, and most known in the Caribean 17th-18th century. Why does one become a pirate? I suspect poverty as a main reason.

Piracy has always been a rich man's game. It cost money to initially obtain the ships & arm the crews. The Somali warlords exorted $150 million (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gB7YMEDuCwwY9ncDOtPAkEI4-H2wD94J9K780) in ransom over the last year. This is big business based in a lawless area of the world. But it's given me an idea for the potential solution (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1498&postcount=2) to another problem.;)

[Aragorn]

I dont mean from whom they got supported; the reason why a man decides to become a pirate,instead of a farmer or fisherman; poverty in his life plays a important role.

[Jimbo Gomez]

Absolutely agreed! We've been treating these subhuman pirates with kid gloves! :mad:

NATO and Russia have enough firepower to blow all those pirates off the planet, so why don't they do it? They even know where they are. What is preventing them? I think political correctness, and the fact that they are Africans ... hence untouchable.

Too many African countries are waiting with open hands to do America's bidding for proper compensation. Any African national army would be the perfect mercenary force to send to those harbours in other words. No need to waste good European soldiers on this fight...

[Skandi]

^They did that, Ethiopia was used thats one of the reasons why the problem is happening in the first place.

[Jimbo Gomez]

^They did that, Ethiopia was used thats one of the reasons why the problem is happening in the first place.

Ethiopia has a better record in Somalia than the USA. They had to pull out of Mogadishu, but they still control much of the countryside and smaller cities, either directly or through a local puppet warlord.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Now they are 'asking the UN' whether we can hunt the pirates. What a bunch of BS, we didn't ask the UN in the 1700s whether we could chase down pirates, we just did it.

[Beorn]

What would you do if you were in charge of bringing order to the area?

Discover Pirates docks. Track the Pirates to their homes. When all reasonable doubt is gone as to who is and isn't a pirate, a quick and simple execution of pirates and their families by either hanging or a bullet to the back of their head.

Either that or some other form of example must be made of them.

[Loyalist]

Perpetually fighting a defensive battle by using an multinational force to patrol the area is too costly and unrealistic. Even with such a system well in place, ships continue to be attacked on a daily basis, and adaquate response times to such attacks are impossible, as are rescue missions. Considering that the situation is now well out of control, and that Somalia is also a breeding ground for Islamic terrorism, it seems some sort of military operation to wipe out the pirates and militants, as well as restore some type of order, is badly needed. Ethiopia and the African Union are apparently no longer part of the solution, according to this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7778246.stm

[Thorum]

Oh, Somalia. Lovely place, no? Here's today's headline:

Somali pirates seize cargo ship, 21 U.S. sailors. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30103371/)

Hijackers 'attack' vessel operated by firm with links to Defense Department.

http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/090408-maersk-alabama-hlrg-425a.hlarge.jpg (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30104747/displaymode/1176/rstry/30103371/)

Well, is there really any question? Pardon my English, but they and the coastal havens should be blown the fuck out of the water!! :mad:

Muslim monkeys...

Excellent website put out by the "International Commercial Crime Services":

- Live Piracy Report (http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&view=table&tableid=26&calculations=0&Itemid=82)

- Live Piracy Map (http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&view=visualization&controller=visualization.googlemap&Itemid=219)

[Eldritch]

I can't believe I find myself defending Somalis, one of the most despicable groups of people to have ever existed ...

I all fairness, it has to said that almost all Somali pirates are former fishermen, whose fishing waters have been ruined due to environmental pollution. That's how it is foliks, like it or not.

However that does not mean I don't advocate blowing them out of the water whenever necessary. Ther smart thing to do would be to manipulate the Somalian sea bandits, beach bandits, highway bandits, city and town bandits, local feudal overlords, the Islamist extremist headcases, etc, etc, to wipe each other out.

The other alternative would be to inundate the whole country in Zyklon-B.

[Æmeric]

American crew members aboard a U.S.-flagged ship have regained control of the vessel hijacked by pirates off the coast of Somalia Wednesday, FOX News confirms.

Defense Department officials confirmed that one pirate is in custody. A U.S. official said the status of the other pirates is unknown but they were reported to "be in the water."

"All the crew members are trained in security detail in how to deal with piracy," Maersk CEO John Reinhart told reporters. "As merchant vessels we do not carry arms. We have ways to push back, but we do not carry arms."

John Harris, CEO of HollowPoint Security Services, which specializes in maritime security, said that the crew's overtaking the pirates could help prevent future hijackings, especially since the military can't be protect the entire high seas.

"Any time you can get intel from them, they can give you any kind of significant information, they more than likely will not, but anything we can get will always help us in the future," Harris told FOX News.

"Naval vessels ... can't be everywhere at one time, just like law enforcement," he said, noting that the U.S. Navy has been protecting the most vulnerable shipping lanes in the Indian Ocean.

"If you saturate an area long enough in the shipping lanes, if you saturate it with war ships long enough, they venture out. In this case that's what they did. They want 350 miles out of the coast where no Naval vessels were present," he said.

Continue reading; (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,513238,00.html)

[Skandi]

1. Well done
2. They should bloody well carry arms

Is it still the case that all British merchant vessels have to have specially strengthened decks so that they can be mounted with deck guns at short notice? If so that would put the pirates off.

[Thorum]

I never would have guessed. Someone grew some balls?

[Thorum]

Apparently the monkeys, err, I mean the pirates, took the Captain and he is now being held hostage somewhere in Somalia (?).

"International naval forces from several countries, including the U.S. Navy, are sending vessels to the scene. According to one source, the pirates are essentially 'all alone, more than 300 miles out to sea, and warships from several countries are on the way.'" (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30103371/)

This should be interesting. My bets are that someone will pay a ransom for the captain.

[The Lawspeaker]

What would I have done ? Three things: brought the troops home from Afghanistan and put some armed soldiers on Dutch cargo ships and let them be escorted by the Dutch navy and blow every goddamn Somali out of the water.
The soldiers would have the order to shoot every pirate they can get their hands on (no prisoners) and even shoot at any small boat passing by- and of course arm and train the crews as well.

This would be just a start- the rest will be taken care off internationally: I like Exordium's idea of inundating all off bloody Somalia in Zyklon-B.

[Thorum]

This could be interesting:

US warship in stand-off with pirates holding American captain hostage (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article6065690.ece)

"The upsurge in attacks makes a mockery of an unprecedented international naval effort against the pirates, including ships from Europe, the United States, China, Japan and others."

A bit of an understatement, no?

:coffee:

[Manifest Destiny]

Do what the Indian Navy just did, sink the pirate ships. Use deadly force. They are terrorists & criminals, treat them as such.

This.

[The Lawspeaker]

Since those people are not on our level of decency and civilization I would resort to a punishment that was used by the Dutch and British (and undoubtedly many other (merchant) navies of the day) navies of the 17th and 18th century:

Any captured pirate should swing from the mast with a rope around his neck or undergo keelhauling over the length of the keel. It may seem barbaric but that is the only message they will understand. Remember: we are in the 21th century- they are still in the Middle Ages.

[Thorum]

Update:

FBI joins effort in hostage standoff with pirates (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27401508/)

Something just doesn't seem right about this...

:icon_ask:

[Loki]

These pirates should have been dealt with a long time ago, and their bases and boats destroyed. But this has not been done, because of political correctness. :mad:

[Barreldriver]

when I first heard about this I lol'd inside because I thought of Monty Python's "Yellow Beard" then I heard they were Somali pirates and the lol became a frowny face :(


Now, on to the topic at hand. Personally if I were in charge I would send the navy on their asses. I've been on board on of the older destroyers the U.S. Navy had(at the Naval museum in D.C.) and it was quite impressive, and imagining the improvements made to the concept of the Destroyer ship there should be no problem wiping out Somalis who are crammed into tiny motor boats, from what I've seen on the news they take small boats, motor up close to the larger ships and board, well, a Destroyer could end it with one shot. *BOOOM* done, no more pirates, and while they're at it, they could "accidentally" discharge a few rounds on the coast, and *BOOM* less potential problem. :D

[The Lawspeaker]

Pirates recapture US hostage after escape attempt



NAIROBI, Kenya – An American captain held hostage by four Somali pirates tried to swim for his freedom but was recaptured Friday, and officials said the high seas hostage drama escalated as both pirate ships and U.S. warcraft sailed to the scene.


In a separate incident off the Somali coast, one hostage and two pirates were killed Friday when French naval forces stormed a sailboat and freed four other hostages, including a child. Three pirates were taken into custody.


Pirates threatened to kill their American hostage, Capt. Richard Phillips, if the U.S. attacked them, according to a Somali who has been in contact with the pirates who are in a lifeboat within sight of a U.S. warship about 200 miles off the coast of Somalia.


The U.S. was bolstering its force by dispatching other warships to the site off the Horn of Africa, where a U.S. destroyer shadowed the lifeboat carrying Phillips. He was taken hostage in the pirates' failed effort to hijack the cargo ship Maersk Alabama on Wednesday.


Defense officials say the USS Boxer, flag ship for a multination anti-piracy task force, will be nearby soon. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to publicly discuss sensitive ship movements.


The Boxer resembles a small aircraft carrier. It has a crew of more than 1,000, a mobile hospital, missile launchers and about two dozen helicopters and attack planes.


The pirates' strategy is to link up with their colleagues, who are holding Russian, German, Filipino and other hostages, and get Phillips to lawless Somalia, where they could hide the hostage and make it difficult to stage a rescue, the Somali said. That would give the pirates more leverage and a stronger negotiating position to discuss a ransom. Anchoring near shore also means they could get to land quickly if attacked.


The Somali, who helped negotiate a ransom last year to pirates after they seized a Ukrainian ship carrying tanks, spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals. He said he has talked with a pirate leader in Somalia who helped coordinate the failed effort to seize the Alabama.


He said the pirate leader had been in direct contact with the lifeboat via a satellite phone but lost contact after Phillips' captors threw the phone — and a two-way radio dropped to them by the U.S. Navy — into the ocean, fearing the Americans were somehow using the equipment to give instructions to the captain. They acted after Phillips' failed effort to escape.


Around midnight local time, Phillips jumped off the lifeboat and began swimming, according to Defense Department officials speaking on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to talk about the sensitive, unfolding operations.


One of the pirates then fired an automatic weapon, the officials said, although it was not clear if the shots were fired at Phillips or into the air, and he returned to the lifeboat.


The USS Bainbridge, which is several hundred yards away, has rescue helicopters and lifeboats but is keeping its distance, in part to stay out of the pirates' range of fire.
Its sailors were able to see Phillips moving around and talking after his return to the lifeboat, and the Defense Department officials think he is unharmed.


Negotiations had been taking place between the pirates and the captain of the Bainbridge, who was getting direction from FBI hostage negotiators, the officials said.
U.S. Central Command chief Gen. David Petraeus said U.S. warships also are headed to the area, more than 300 miles off Somalia's Indian Ocean coast.
"We want to ensure that we have all the capability that might be needed over the course of the coming days," he said.


President Barack Obama, who is getting regular updates on the standoff, declined to answer questions about it Friday for a second straight day.
Mohamed Samaw, a resident of the pirate stronghold in Eyl, Somalia, who claims to have a "share" in a British-owned ship hijacked Monday, said four foreign vessels held by pirates are heading toward the lifeboat. A total of 54 hostages are on two of the ships — citizens of China, Germany, Russia, Ukraine, the Philippines, Tuvalu, Indonesia and Taiwan.



"The pirates have summoned assistance — skiffs and mother ships are heading towards the area from the coast," said a Nairobi-based diplomat, who spoke on condition on anonymity because he is not authorized to talk to the media.



Samaw said two ships left Eyl on Wednesday. A third sailed from Haradhere, another pirate base in Somalia, and the fourth was a Taiwanese fishing vessel seized Monday that was already only 30 miles from the lifeboat.



He said the ships include the German cargo ship Hansa Stavanger, seized earlier this month. The ship's crew of 24 is made up of five Germans, three Russians, two Ukrainians, two Filipinos and 12 from Tuvalu.
Another man identified as a pirate by three different residents of Haradhere also said the captured German ship had been sent.



"They had asked us for reinforcement, and we have already sent a good number of well-equipped colleagues, who were holding a German cargo ship," said the man, who asked that only his first name, Badow, be used to protect him from reprisals.



"We are not intending to harm the captain, so that we hope our colleagues would not be harmed as long as they hold him," Badow said. "All we need, first, is a safe route to escape with the captain, and then (negotiate) ransom later."



Jack Cloonan, a former FBI agent whose Virginia-based firm Clayton Consultants Inc. handles hostage negotiations, told The Associated Press that the presence of other hijacked vessels in the area "could complicate the negotiation strategy under way."



"We know for certain that they share information. We know they talk to each other. They're not stupid. They can be very smart," Cloonan said.
Phillips, 53, thwarted the takeover of the 17,000-ton U.S.-flagged Alabama by telling his crew of about 20 to lock themselves in a room, the crew told stateside relatives.



The crew later overpowered some of the pirates but Phillips surrendered himself to the bandits to safeguard his men, and the Somalis fled with him to an enclosed lifeboat, the relatives said.



Capt. James Staples, a classmate of Phillips at the Massachusetts Maritime Academy, said he was not surprised by the escape attempt.
"That just shows me that Richie's still ... strong, he's thinking, he's alert," Staples said. "He's going to take every opportunity he can to, to make the situation a lot better for himself and probably get home as quick as he can."



At Phillips' home in Underhill, Vt., family members nervously awaited word on his fate. Sister-in-law Lea Coggio said Thursday a representative of Maersk called to let Phillips' wife know that food and water had been delivered to the lifeboat.



"I think he's coping, knowing Richard," she said. "He's a smart guy, and he's in control. "
Officials at Maersk Line Ltd. offices in Norfolk, Va., did not respond to repeated messages seeking comment Friday.



The Alabama sailed away from the lifeboat Thursday, Maersk shipping line said, and a team of armed Navy SEALs is aboard, according to a U.S. official who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the situation.



It was sailing toward the Kenyan port of Mombasa — its original destination — and was expected to arrive Saturday night, said Joseph Murphy, a professor at the maritime academy whose son, Shane Murphy, is second-in-command of the vessel.



Most of the lifeboats used by ships like the Alabama are about 28 feet long and carry water and food for 34 people for 10 days, Joseph Murphy said. The lifeboats are covered, and Murphy, who was brief by the shipping company, said he suspects the pirates have closed the ports to avoid sniper fire.



Petraeus said the other warships would arrive shortly. U.S. officials said the guided-missile frigate USS Halyburton was among them.



The show of force follows an increase in the number of attacks and the first on a U.S.-flagged ship. The vessels strengthen surveillance of the area and may dissuade pirates from seizing another ship, but there are not enough for a blockade in the danger zone that sprawls across 1.1 million square miles, said a senior U.S. defense official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss operational matters.



The Alabama was the sixth vessel in a week to be hit by pirates who have extorted tens of millions of dollars in ransoms.



Source and more. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090410/ap_on_re_af/piracy)

[Jamt]

If I went down to Somalia maybe I could serve as a decoy, like a distressed white sailor asking for assistance from a passing ship or somthing. And then just board them by surprise. I would like to be a pirate and I kind of respect pirates.

[RoyBatty]

It's a bit of a complex situation. The situation has thusfar typically been that the Somali pirates (as opposed to Indonesian and Brazilian pirates who kill without hesitation) didn't set out to harm their hostages as they had a vested interest in getting ransoms paid. They're purely in it for the money.

Now that increasing levels of force are being applied against them they will likely start resorting to corresponding increases in violence meaning that seafaring life around East Africa is about to become hazardous to one's health.

There is some truth to the statements that European toxic waste dumping off Somalia's Coast have harmed their environment. It would also be interesting to know who all the people in the Somali Piracy Business are. It's a fairly complex operation to organise the attacks, provide operational logistics, handle the accounting / business side, the telecoms and the negotiations with the ships owners.

There have also been suggestions that some of the shipowners have been involved in this because they can then defraud the insurance companies through making ransom claims via the pirates. Is it really just a coincidence that piracy activity went skyhigh at the same time that the Baltic Dry Index (freight shipping volumes) plummeted to lows because of the economic crisis? :confused:

Other factors to consider are the West's interference in Somalian domestic powerstruggles. This has destabilised the country even further meaning that there is no strong government which can crackdown or be pressured into cracking down on criminal activities. This again means that a massively expensive and complex military invasion will be required to try and stem the piracy problem which would again bleed the invading countries in both money and manpower.

Complex problem......

[Jamt]

It's a bit of a complex situation. The situation has thusfar typically been that the Somali pirates (as opposed to Indonesian and Brazilian pirates who kill without hesitation) didn't set out to harm their hostages as they had a vested interest in getting ransoms paid. They're purely in it for the money.

Important point you are making. They do not seem to be in to killing too much.
I hope this is not going to be another excuse to invade a sad messed up Muslim country.

[Æmeric]

You forget that Somalia was occupied by "peace keepers" in late 92 & 93. i don't see the point in going into Somalia, there is no oil. Though coincidently it is located next to the native land of the current US president.

[RoyBatty]

You forget that Somalia was occupied by "peace keepers" in late 92 & 93. i don't see the point in going into Somalia, there is no oil. Though coincidently it is located next to the native land of the current US president.

I'm not so sure.

There is a lot of information claiming that Somalia may possess substantial oil and gas reserves (atm of course "undiscovered" and not developed) which may explain the 1990's adventures there and the more recent Ethiopian "mission to restore order" on behalf of the West. Only the oil majors and their associates would know the truth and they're not exactly going to advertise it if it were true.

If Somalia does indeed have substantial energy reserves the situation would be comparable to Afghanistan, ie it would be another country that needs to be "pacified" in order to create conditions favourable for extracting and transporting energy.

[Jamt]

Or else there is no grand plan, just the stumbling stupidity of so called smart people. Like always.

[Skandi]

Last I heard Somalia has no discovered Oil plays and very little Gas, China is however prospecting there at the moment.

[RoyBatty]

Last I heard Somalia has no discovered Oil plays and very little Gas, China is however prospecting there at the moment.

Read this old 1993 article (meaning it was written long before the "War on Terror" kicked off in earnest) from the LA Times for some clues.


http://www.somaliawatch.org/archivejuly/000922601.htm

Similarly, Sudan is said to contain magnitudes more oil than has currently been discovered or is being produced. Hence the intense political, NGO and media interest in the "Human Rights" situation there and the ICC's hysterical efforts to get the local dictator indicted on warcrimes charges. It's all about taking control over the region (or at least over a substantial part of it) in order to grab the oil.

[Sol Invictus]

You can't help but admire the bastards for their willingness to take on the U.S Navy. These are very desperate, brave men. What I would do deter further piracy is to destroy the Somali ports so they can't load and off load their loot, and start arming the crews of the boats traveling through somali territory, or at least make it easier for them to employ a private security service to protect the crew and their cargo.

[Loddfafner]

The captain has now been rescued:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/12/somalia.pirates/index.html

[Skandi]

He is a brave and very lucky man, I hope he gets some sort of recognition for this.

[Thorum]

He is a brave and very lucky man, I hope he gets some sort of recognition for this.

I don't think so Thrym, according to Logo, the pirates are the brave ones!!

:p

[SwordoftheVistula]

Good to see they finally got off their butts and took out the pirates. They should just declare the area a 'war zone' and send the navy to patrol it and blow the crap out of any unregistered boat they see. Also, put these spy satellites to use and find out where their bases are and blow the crap out of them too. Leave that mess in the Persian Gulf behind and send the navy down on anti-pirate patrols instead.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Now they are being referred to as "merchant marine organizers" (as in 'community organizers') :D

[Sol Invictus]

Good to see they finally got off their butts and took out the pirates. They should just declare the area a 'war zone' and send the navy to patrol it and blow the crap out of any unregistered boat they see. Also, put these spy satellites to use and find out where their bases are and blow the crap out of them too. Leave that mess in the Persian Gulf behind and send the navy down on anti-pirate patrols instead.

Agreed. Concentrate your efforts on battling authentic terrorism unlike Iraq and Afganistan hunting fabled enemies. I don't think we should be go out there guns blazing though, either, which seems to be what most everyone here wants to see. Check the boats and the crew in international waters where cargo frequents, but beyond measure response I don't see the point in going out and massacreing somalis in their own country.

[Thorum]

Apparently the French have been kicking some pirate ass lately:

"French raid pirate ship, US seeks to freeze assets" (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27401508/)

http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/ap/feb8f4cd-2316-4531-aaba-78600eed4416.hmedium.jpg (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30227854/displaymode/1176/rstry/27401508/)

"This aerial photo taken from a French army helicopter and released by the French Defense Ministry on Wednesday, April 15, 2009, showing a small vessel, center, before its interception by French military officers aboard two dinghies, unseen, on Wednesday, 550 miles (900 kilometers) east of the Kenyan port of Mombasa. The French Defense Ministry says it detained 11 pirates during a French assault on a pirate 'mother ship' and thwarted a pirate attack on a Liberian-registered vessel." (AP Photo/Ecpad/HO)

[Barreldriver]

Now that my tomahawks are on their way, what I would do to the Somali pirates, I would first prepare my tomahawks, fix my Urnfield Dagger, get my sgian dubh tucked away nice and snug, then prepare to swim from North East Ohio to Somalia, upon reaching Somalia I will stow away underneath the boat using a McDonalds straw to get air, then I will proceed to work my way into the boat where I will systematically eliminate the pirates. The end.

[Skandi]

Hostages freed but pirates strike again


Another ship has been hijacked by Somali gunmen only hours after Nato announced that 20 hostages were freed from a pirate 'mother ship'.

Nato forces in the Indian Ocean confirmed that a Belgian ship with ten crew members on board, including seven Europeans, was taken by the gunmen on Saturday.

Lieutenant Commander Alexandre Fernandes, on board a Portuguese warship further north in the Gulf of Aden, said: "A helicopter from EU naval force Operation Atalanta flew over and confirmed the hijacking visually."

He said the Belgian ship, the Pompei, was carrying two Belgian, four Croatian, one Dutc and three Filipino crew members.

Earlier, Dutch commandos freed 20 hostages who had been forced to sail a pirate base ship while it attacked commercial vessels in the Gulf of Aden.

Lieutenant Commander Fernandes said the hostages were freed after Dutch naval forces, on a Nato mission, captured seven pirates who attacked a Greek-managed tanker.

The officials said a Dutch frigate responded when the pirates, armed with rifles and rocket-propelled grenades, attacked the MT Handytankers Magic, managed by Roxana Shipping SA of Greece.

On Friday, five gunmen in a skiff neared a Danish cargo vessel, the MV Puma, in the Gulf of Aden, prompting US and South Korean warships to send aircraft to the scene.
source (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090418/twl-hostages-freed-but-pirates-strike-ag-41f21e0.html)

[lei.talk]

http://i39.tinypic.com/25fq5j8.jpg
- source (http://72.20.40.89/forum/showthread.php?p=38832#post38832)

[SwordoftheVistula]

is self-defence legal in international waters

Presumably-who or what would make it illegal?

[Freomæg]

What would I do?

Halt any approaching boat and demand authorisation that they are a legal, fishing vessel and are not armed. If the boat proceeds, or opens fire, it gets sunk. Hard to be more logical or fair than that.

[Thorum]

Here is an interesting story on the piracy dilemma:

The Politically Correct Pirate War (http://www.americandailyreview.com/home-features-articles-blog/2009/4/19/the-politically-correct-pirate-war.html)

"White guilt and political correctness are at the root of the return of piracy."

Wouldn't this be the best way of dealing with the pirates:

"When Edward Teach (or Thatch) aka Blackbeard was killed in battle by Lt. Robert Maynard at Ocracoke Island in 1718, his head was cut off and hung from the bow of HMS Ranger-a warning to other pirates that the Royal Navy was not going to play their little game of maritime hide-and-seek."

And this, though I don't know enough about it to completely agree:

"Weakness invites attack, and history is littered with examples...

The U.S. fought its first war with the Barbary Pirates-and their Islamic hosts in Tripoli-because the newly independent nation simply could not afford to pay the tribute that the cowards in Europe were shelling out in their Dhimmi status. Making non-Muslims pay tribute is as old as Islam itself, a recognition of the right of the Muslim to rule the entire world for Allah. By submitting to their demands, the Europeans opened the gates to increasing blackmail. America fell prey to this for a while, attempting diplomacy by signing treaties with Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Tripolitania-the four pirate states...

By 1801 the fledgling-and nearly bankrupt-United States had paid $2 million to the Barbary States-only one fifth of what they demanded. Thomas Jefferson decided that the time had come to fight, and America put a stop to the demands of the Islamic bandits by blockading Tripoli."

Interesting perspective.

http://imgtn1.ask.com/ts?t=5006152713573854802&pid=23073&ppid=22 (http://www.dogpile.com/clickserver/_iceUrlFlag=1?rawURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwzuy1.ask.com%2F r%3Ft%3Dp%26d%3Dsynus%26s%3Difs3%26c%3Dif3i%26l%3D dir%26o%3D0%26sv%3D0a5c4326%26ip%3D47b09120%26id%3 D23DFB28FE75EA44FB714E1AC16BD463A%26q%3Dsomali%2Bp irate%26p%3D1%26qs%3D121%26ac%3D24%26g%3D2dbfz2WSA %25dRPe%26en%3Dpi%26io%3D0%26b%3Dimg%26tp%3Dd%26ec %3D16%26pt%3D%26ex%3D%26url%3D%26u%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2F leighm.net%2Fwp%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F09%2Fsomali_pirate.jpg&0=&1=0&4=67.63.50.146&5=71.176.145.32&9=a179651a2a094d3aa77ab348aac4c901&10=1&11=info.dogpl&13=search&14=239125&15=main-title&17=2&18=1&19=0&20=0&21=2&22=Ud9R%2BOWZdvQ%3D&23=0&40=GaTrR6YAItnkXjFTD66yCA%3D%3D&_IceUrl=true)

[Thorum]

"MOGADISHU (Reuters) - Gunbattles between (http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE5770RY20090808?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&rpc=76) clan militiamen killed at least 17 people and wounded 30 on Saturday at a pirate stronghold on the coast of Somalia, witnesses said."

Here's what kills me. Read this quote: "One pirate in the lawless central Somali port said he was worried the bloodshed would hurt the sea gangs' profits.

'We are afraid our business will stop if the clashes continue,' the pirate, who gave his name as Mohamed, told Reuters by satellite phone from Haradheere."

It would be sad to think this bloodshed would interfere with their pirating...:mad:

[Bari]

Deal with them in only reasonable and understandable communication for such beings, with a gun. Talking and arresting is a waste of time and money in theese cases.

[Ulex]

I have been in pirate infested waters from time to time. I have never experienced an attack, though. One thing that really frustrated me, was the fact that we were not allowed to defend ourselves with firearms if necessary. Undoubtedly the seamen will have the bigger advantage over the pirates, if they positioned themselves startegically on the ship, making use of the height and coverage of their vessel against the small pirate boats. Even poorly trained seamen would be able to turn the odds severely against the pirates.

When entering these waters all ships have a procedure in case of a pirate attack. The procedure varies, it depends largely on the aggressiveness of your captain. Most captains prefer to adopt a defensive "hiding"-procedure, where the crew would barricade themselves in the engine room and put the ship in the mercy of the pirates. A few other captains prepare for the defence of their ships. I have had a captain, who stored molotov-cocktails in the bridge wings. One can easily imagine the effect of a dozen of cocktails thrown into a small, open boat.

But still... A few submachineguns would save the lives of many seamen - and waste the lives of many pirates. It would be suicide for the pirates to attack a big freighter with an armed and determined crew. But we live in a soft world. Men are not allowed to defend themselves against armed thugs and villains anymore.

Not allowed to carry arms the best tactic would probably be for the freighters to sail in convoys that are protected by the navy. This procedure would be very expensive and time consuming, and this would result in higher transport rates and harm the world economy. All because of some negro pirate scum in fast boats.

[Cato]

What else? Give them visas into western countries so that they can live with their Somali countrymen! :P

[Thorum]

I would NOT do this!

From todays headlines (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27401508/ns/world_news-europe/):

"MOGADISHU, Somalia - Pirates freed 36 crew members from a Spanish trawler Tuesday after holding them for more than six weeks. A self-proclaimed pirate said the hostage-takers were paid $3.3 million in ransom, while Spain's prime minister said the country did what it had to do."

[Cato]

I would NOT do this!

From todays headlines (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27401508/ns/world_news-europe/):

"MOGADISHU, Somalia - Pirates freed 36 crew members from a Spanish trawler Tuesday after holding them for more than six weeks. A self-proclaimed pirate said the hostage-takers were paid $3.3 million in ransom, while Spain's prime minister said the country did what it had to do."

Such activities only embolden the pirates.

[Lahtari]

What would you do?

Equip freighters with heavy weaponry and military personnel, and shoot them with hard ammo?

[Smaland]

Equip freighters with heavy weaponry and military personnel, and shoot them with hard ammo?

This is what was done on US merchant ships during World War II. The government created a separate branch of the US Navy, named the Armed Guard (AG). Freighters were equipped with deck guns and light AA guns, and these were manned by detachments of AG sailors. This capability gave freighters a measure of protection against submarines (sometimes, they would attack on the surface) and air attacks.

[Falkata]

The point is that, at least in Spain, the Army can´t be used to protect private interests. The situation is hard , i suppose the ship owners are the ones who should equip their ships with guns and mercenaries.

[SwordoftheVistula]

in Spain, the Army can´t be used to protect private interests.

What is for then? If some foreign army was to invade Spain, would the Spanish Army be like "ok, keep them out of the city park and the sewage plant, but we can't touch them if they are in the mall or a residential neighborhood because that is private property"

[Falkata]

What is for then? If some foreign army was to invade Spain, would the Spanish Army be like "ok, keep them out of the city park and the sewage plant, but we can't touch them if they are in the mall or a residential neighborhood because that is private property"

It´s different because Spain is not private. I mean if a invader attacks the spanish sea or land the army would react. The problem is that the ships are fishing in international waters and these ships are private. So the question if it´s fair to spend millions on protecting private interests or if the owners of these ships should spend money on security.

[Thorum]

Here is from today's news:

"Maersk Alabama Evades Second Pirate Attack (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125854541908353475.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_wor ld)

NAIROBI, Kenya -- The Maersk Alabama, the American-flagged ship captured briefly by pirates in April, came under fire again early Tuesday morning off Somalia's coast, but evaded the attackers.
Four men in a skiff sped within 300 yards of the container ship, firing automatic weapons in an attempt to board it, according to the U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet. A security team aboard the Alabama fired back and managed to fend off the attack, the Navy said."

"A vessel from the European Union Naval Force Somalia, a mission set up to fight piracy, was dispatched in an attempt to track down the skiff."

I am curious to see if they ever catch the skiff.

I also read today (http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE5AH1SU20091118?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&rpc=76) the captain of the North Korean ship (?) taken Tuesday has died from injuries sustained during the monkey, err, I mean pirate attack...

[Cato]

"A security team aboard the Alabama fired back and managed to fend off the attack, the Navy said.""

http://www.costaricapages.com/panama/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/redneck1.jpg
"All right Jimmy iffn you shoot less darkys than I do yer buyin the keg a beer!"

http://exiledonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/hick-guns.jpg
"Git r dun!"

[Poltergeist]

Couldn't they be considered true Libertarians? I mean, these pirates.

[Lahtari]

Couldn't they be considered true Libertarians? I mean, these pirates.

:scratch:

Like for... their efforts of respecting the right of ownership and free trade? :D

[Poltergeist]

:scratch:

Like for... their efforts of respecting the right of ownership and free trade? :D

They are freely taking advantage of the resources that are within their reach, without any meddling by the evil state. :D

[SwordoftheVistula]

They are freely taking advantage of the resources that are within their reach, without any meddling by the evil state. :D

They are taking by force, rather than a bargained-for exchange.

This is also the primary libertarian moral argument, that socialism is the same as piracy because it involves taking by force rather than in a bargained-for exchange.

[Majar]

Every story has a backstory. Since Somalia's government fell in 1991 its seas have become an international haven for marine poachers. Every year Somalis lose approx. $300 million worth of seafood from their own waters due to poaching. Fishing is a traditional way of life as Somalia has few natural resources. The fishing industry has collapsed in the last 15 years, its waters are being heavily overfished by European, Asian and African ships.


http://i47.tinypic.com/2583qlk.jpg

Somalia's waters are also a convenient spot for the world to dump toxic (including nuclear) waste. Much of it originates in Europe and is done with the knowledge of European governments. The Italian mafia is involved in it, that's how dirty this all is. The 2004 tsunami washed containers of toxic waste ashore. Since then people have been afflicted with mysterious illnesses, chemical burns on the skin, and an increase in severe birth defects.

These pirates began as a semi-organized coast guard to protect against toxic dumping and the foreign exploitation of their marine resources. Who can blame them? I'm pretty sure I would do the same thing in that situation. Their tactics of hostage taking are not defensible and many of them are just career criminals working for warlords, but my heart doesn't exactly bleed for their 'victims': toxic polluters, companies transporting the tons of cheap plastic Chinese-made shit destined to flood Western markets, and globalist MegaFoodCorps stealing from poor people all to enable yuppies in New York & London to enjoy a plate of $100 sushi. :1099:

The only reason Somali piracy is being called a big issue is the fact that these waters are a major corridor for the transportation of oil. Otherwise it is not really newsworthy. The pirates in the Straits of Malacca are far more violent.

I'm not sure there is an easy solution to the issue, as Somalis now realize they can become much more wealthy as pirates than as fishermen.

[Thorum]

Ah yes, a nice cup of coffee this morning and a story that made me smile. The day will be good!! ;)

"Private guards kill Somali pirate for first time" (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36002167/ns/world_news-africa/)

"NAIROBI, Kenya - Private security guards shot and killed a Somali pirate during an attack on a merchant ship off the coast of East Africa in what is believed to be the first such killing by armed contractors, the EU Naval Force spokesman said Wednesday."

Here is the pirate below pictured at his last job before becoming a pirate:


http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/question/oct04/chicken.jpg

[poiuytrewq0987]

What with all the pirate activity off of the Somali coast recently and the apparent inability of the combined Navies that are attempting to stop it to have a major effect.
The insurance companies have been adding a substantial surcharge for vessels travelling through the area, forcing Ships to go through the expensive Suez canal or take huge detours to avoid the area.

The British government announced today that it won't pay ransoms for the two crew presently being held, but ship owners have been paying out on vessels.

What would you do if you were in charge of bringing order to the area?

Personally I would blow all suspected boats out of the water on sight and not wait for them to show that they are definitely involved in piracy, fishing vessels rarely have 20 young men in them!

I would recommission Iowa-class battleships and order them to bomb out Somali bases. Cutting off the head of the snake is the only way to eliminate the problem.

[Don]

This is some of the info about that first dead of a pirate. (translated by http://www.spanishdict.com/translation)

The military of the Spanish frigate Navarra captured this Tuesday six presumed pirates in the coast of Somalia, by have tried to assault a Panamanian merchant whose private security force was able to repel the assault after open fire against the attackers. The Defense Ministry informed in one of the pirate's ships found a corpse with impacts of bullet of small caliber (edit: panamanian shots?) .
The Navarra frigate, alerted by Atalanta (edit: name of the mission, commanded by (weak) spaniards previously and now by dutch) on the attempt of assault to the merchant, intercepted the pirates when they tried to flee, after the private security of the ship had been able to repel the assault after open fire against the attackers.
The commanders of Atalanta will activate the mechanisms to put to the presumed pirates to judicial disposition in Kenya or in the Seychelles Islands following the the agreements subscribed by the EU with the authorities of both countries (Edit: previous injections of european money, for sure), indicates Defense.

Notice one thing. The spanish ships, attacked usually (last week 2 were attacked managing to scape) do not shot directly to the pirates.
The first to "kill" (still is not confirmed, the kidnapped spanish fishermen told that the pirate's fights between them were usual and with fire weapons) are southamerican or non-european private security.

I'm sure of one thing, no one (compared to the hordes of critics that would accuse europe if these were from here) will accuse the poor panamanian for defending themselves.

...

Errhh don't try to ask the military forces of Spain to shot directly these pirates so I named them "weak". They are strongly controlled by the spanish government who has some obsession with "poor africans" in preference over the native old spaniards that are suffering the worst poverty and despair since the civil war.
Is usual that millions of euros are given to african interests (there or here, since hordes of african have invaded our lands with no-return or particular effort to make them back or make them difficult their stance as it's difficult for the natives)
... in particular the second prime minister has an obsession with helping the poor africans forgetting about the retarded and evil spaniards, that are basically here to help at all costs. She is one of those called feminazist...
http://www.elconfidencial.com/fotos/sociedad/2006030848Copia%20de%20delavega1_20060308_o.jpg
(note: the words behind say "Por un mundo mejor" - "for a better world" -oh, beautiful!... Why do not begin with "for a better Spain"?-)

http://ecodiario.eleconomista.es/imag/efe/2009/03/08/1991262w.jpg
In the previous with the african foreigners (notice the facial expression).
...
And here talking to natives, questioning for sure about the solutions to the grave problems in "home" of spaniards (the ones she and they all forgot, are IN CHARGE.)
http://bligoo.com/media/users/1/78526/images/public/6083/Teresa_vega_vice.jpg



,,,
The military minister (a woman, yes, previous pacifist.) with the flag of the operation Atalanta.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_oNCWKmCwQ5g/SeJBcwun8eI/AAAAAAAAAgM/bPeWnv-ET8s/s400/chacon+con+tropas+a+somalia.jpg


In conclusion, do not expect any proportional or logic reaction of the spanish troops against these pirates.

[Murphy]

I'd join them, or failing that, I'll start a new crew up here in the British Isles, and start raiding Wales like my people of old.

After all, I am a Murphy!

[Thorum]

"NAIROBI, Kenya — In a predawn raid (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/10/world/africa/10pirates.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss) on Thursday with helicopters hovering nearby, 24 American Marines scaled aboard a hijacked ship in the Gulf of Aden, arrested the nine pirates on board and freed the ship — all without firing a shot, the American military said."

:thumbs up

[Cato]

The best punishment of all would be to let them continue to live in their own filth.

Say, invent submersible cargo ships that can sail under the waters near Somalia, then these stupid niggers would have no one worthwhile to prey upon.

Before long, watch the niggers turn on each other for lack of anyone else to turn on (and try to extort).

[Crossbow]

What about this method (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/piracy/7713375/Somali-pirates-captured-and-released-by-Russian-navy-have-died.html):

[The Lawspeaker]

What about this method (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/piracy/7713375/Somali-pirates-captured-and-released-by-Russian-navy-have-died.html):
Nice, cheap and very efficient. Let the bastards starve to death, die of thirst or capsize.

[Vasconcelos]

Wow, now that's just mean lol

[Thorum]

Another bit of good news:

"Risky S[outh] Korean raid saves entire crew from pirates (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41189088/ns/world_news-africa/)."

"...When Friday's operation ended five hours later, 21 hostages had been rescued, eight Somali pirates killed and five assailants captured. Pockmarks from artillery fire blanketed the ship's bridge. One of the hostages was wounded, but all were alive..."

I wager that at least 3 of the pirate's names are Mohammad...

[Smaland]

Piracy involves kidnapping, and kidnapping is a capital offense according to the Scriptures:


And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 21:16 (KJV)

[Cato]

The tried-and-true method of dealing with black criminals is as good a method as any:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGRMIWZzhcXPzTlOD7EEx4MYEnirdIe CSwTODIanNpPBbAESZBMw

[The Lawspeaker]

The tried-and-true method of dealing with black criminals is as good a method as any:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGRMIWZzhcXPzTlOD7EEx4MYEnirdIe CSwTODIanNpPBbAESZBMw

No lynching but this time-and-true method is really good when dealing with any criminals:

http://0.tqn.com/d/gocalifornia/1/0/s/I/tomb-gallows-at.jpg

[CelticTemplar]

Allow ships to carry automatic weapons on board, and to shoot anyone who boards. Other than that if they are caught by government ships then its six feet of rope off the side of the ship. Except for the leader, he gets his head impaled on the front of the ship.

[Cato]

Allow ships to carry automatic weapons on board, and to shoot anyone who boards. Other than that if they are caught by government ships then its six feet of rope off the side of the ship. Except for the leader, he gets his head impaled on the front of the ship.

That's what I don't understand, why these ships don't have a compliment of marines on board. A few hired guns with a good commander who has a grasp of small units tactics, naval tactics, and so forth... Why ought naval assests from countries be deployed when these niggers use speedboats to terrorize oil tankers, bulk freighters, etc.?

Hire a few mercenaries. Put, say, 5-10 per boat. A few well-trained mercenaries are worth dozens, hundreds, of speed-boating niggers with AKs.

Problem solved.

[Bloodeagle]

That's what I don't understand, why these ships don't have a compliment of marines on board. A few hired guns with a good commander who has a grasp of small units tactics, naval tactics, and so forth... Why ought naval assests from countries be deployed when these niggers use speedboats to terrorize oil tankers, bulk freighters, etc.?

Hire a few mercenaries. Put, say, 5-10 per boat. A few well-trained mercenaries are worth dozens, hundreds, of speed-boating niggers with AKs.

Problem solved.

Currently it is very difficult for a merchant ship to get port clearance if they are armed. Many countries do not allow armed ships to enter port.

[Cato]

Currently it is very difficult for a merchant ship to get port clearance if they are armed. Many countries do not allow armed ships to enter port.

Small arms do not equal a danger to the commerce of the seas, when used by the right hands and for defensive purposes.

[Bloodeagle]

Small arms do not equal a danger to the commerce of the seas, when used by the right hands and for defensive purposes.
Probably not but these things do seem important to the Maritime community and the rules that they have enacted.

[Cato]

Probably not but these things do seem important to the Maritime community and the rules that they have enacted.

Real pirates sail in manowars, not speedboats.

[Tom Cat]

This is what should be mounted on every major merchant vessel to deal with pirates:

QpXjshw_eT8

The 40mm bofers could be mounted on smaller vessels.

[Cato]

The Somali pirates don't have any large vessels do they?

[Bloodeagle]

The Somali pirates don't have any large vessels do they?
No, they need electric fencing around the deck, and a pack of Mandril's topside :D, to thwart the sneaky bastards from climbing aboard uninvited.

I have also read of smaller yachts scattering caltrops across the deck at night, to notify the crew if any barefoot savages had boarded.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1e/Caltrop.jpg/220px-Caltrop.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Caltrop.jpg)

[Cato]

I still think that some armed marines would solve the piracy problem.

[Thorum]

"(Reuters) - A U.S. judge sentenced (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/16/us-usa-somalia-pirate-idUSTRE71F60H20110216?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&rpc=76) a Somali pirate to 33 years and nine months in prison on Wednesday for his role in the 2009 seizure of the Maersk Alabama container ship in the Indian Ocean."

He should have been shot...

[The Ripper]

Start a private consulting agency specializing in anti-piracy protection for shipping lines with a couple of buddies. ;)

[Germanicus]

I still think that some armed marines would solve the piracy problem.


Captain Kirk and every star ship vessel has a contingency of red shirts(marines) The great Captain Cook circumnavigated the globe with marines on board...Marines would indeed stop your vessel being boarded, but the problem would'nt be solved by carrying marines, the problem is only dealt with by addressing the problem direct to the pirates home ground?

[Hrimskegg]

Has the weebl Somali pirate video been posted yet? Cause it totally should be!

[Odin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE1tG0aLWgM

[♥ Lily ♥]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xLaQN4QEs8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70HJ8glMIVM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXKPiKQHTqY

[sean]

Somali pirates were a threat for a minute, because tankers and cargo ships were fat and happy and unguarded.

Now that they all have 50mm guns, well, it's easier to go back to stealing from each other.

Ocean piracy is still a thing, though. If you plan on boating anywhere in the world, you need guns. Period. Especially in the Pacific, people just disappear there all the time.

[The Lawspeaker]

Make 'em walk the plank.