What does portuguese sound like to you?

[Damião de Góis]

I thought i'd get on with the new trend :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFAeWIKXB8g


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE9Zo1Dh6wA

Does it really sound slavic like some people say?

[Padre Organtino]

Like Russians trying to speak Spanish:D I often try to imitate the intonation and pronounciation for fun. Overall cool.

One question I have - are there substantial regional differences in language? Like local dialects and etc or is Portugal homogenous?

[Didriksson]

I must say that it is the most Slavic sounding non Slavic language. For me it sounds really different from Spanish or Italian, though I hear similarities between the three languages. It's soft and harsh at the same time, a melodic language and really interesting sounding to my ears. I think if I would have to study a Romance language I would chose Portuguese. :)

p.s. I think that those gsh, sh, zh, sounds give that Slavic vibe, but ofc it's not a Slavic language and I couldn't understand a word.

I sometimes watch Euro News channel and you can watch it in Portuguese as well and sometimes, for the sake of fun I do that and I remember when I asked to father how he thinks what language is that, and he was really confused since he thought that it's Slavic, but a really weird sounding Slavic language. :p

[Jack B]

I've mistaken it for Russian a couple of times.. :embarrassed

[Damião de Góis]

One question I have - are there substantial regional differences in language? Like local dialects and etc or is Portugal homogenous?

Yes of course, but it's getting more homogenous as time goes by thanks to TV.
These are the identifiable local accents we have:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Portugueselanguagedialects-Portugal.png/220px-Portugueselanguagedialects-Portugal.png

The ones from the Islands are the ones more different and difficult to understand. As for the continent, everyone is talking like 7 more and more, which is the standard way of portuguese and the one spoken on TV.

[billErobreren]

I understand the Brazilian one a bit better. my mother always compared Portuguese to Frech:laugh: (dunno what the hell was the matter with her) but yeah unless you're familiar with Spanish or Italian it does sound like a lot like Russian

[Damião de Góis]

Like Russians trying to speak Spanish:D

There are important differences in comparison with spanish though:

- we can say Bs and Vs perfectly
- we have a completely different J sound, our J is like the english one. Same with G or X.
- our Rs sound different too.
- and of course, our S sound is different and it's what gives the slavic vibe.

[AFC_Lad]

the funniest thing i've seen someone say portuguese sounds like.. is a deaf russian person trying to speak spanish.. never laughed so hard at a comment, and it is somewhat spot on lol.. no offense sardine eaters :)

[Grumpy Cat]

I can actually understand a good deal of Portuguese because of its closeness to French. It doesn't sound very foreign to me.

I am more familiar with Brazilian Portuguese because I'm a Sepultura fan, and I can understand most of their Portuguese lyrics.

[Sikeliot]

To me it sounds like a mixture of French and Russian-like sounds, that is when I hear French and Russian, sometimes the sound of them reminds me of Portuguese I heard growing up :)

[Mordid]

Does farting sound like burping? Just kidding.

Russian and Portuguese have little in common, but I don't speak Portuguese and I can understand where you're coming from. The pronunciation sounds Slavic to my ears.

[Riki]

I can actually understand a good deal of Portuguese because of its closeness to French. It doesn't sound very foreign to me.

I am more familiar with Brazilian Portuguese because I'm a Sepultura fan, and I can understand most of their Portuguese lyrics.

Yes,but the Brazilian Portuguese they write and sing its closer to the standard Portuguese.
Do you get any of this?

T4SuRhRlrnA

[billErobreren]

There are important differences in comparison with spanish though:

- we can say Bs and Vs perfectly
- we have a completely different J sound, our J is like the english one. Same with G or X.
- our Rs sound different too.
- and of course, our S sound is different and it's what gives the slavic vibe.

:nod:The L too but it still was overshadowed by the S sounds. the way that chick said the name Matilde & putting some emphasis on the L. I don't hear Spanish speakers doing that except for maybe Caribbean ones I've heard some of them say the word "partir" & making it sound like this "pAHLteeL" ugh they are the worst:tsk:

[Sikeliot]

:nod:The L too but it still was overshadowed by the S sounds. the way that chick said the name Matilde & putting some emphasis on the L. I don't hear Spanish speakers doing that except for maybe Caribbean ones I've heard some of them say the word "partir" & making it sound like this "pAHLteeL" ugh they are the worst:tsk:

Caribbean Spanish is the Ebonics of the Spanish language.. for the most part horrid.

[Damião de Góis]

:nod:The L too but it still was overshadowed by the S sounds. the way that chick said the name Matilde & putting some emphasis on the L. I don't hear Spanish speakers doing that except for maybe Caribbean ones I've heard some of them say the word "partir" & making it sound like this "pAHLteeL" ugh they are the worst:tsk:

Picking up the name "Matilde" in the middle of that video is really impressive. How did you do it? :eek:

[billErobreren]

Picking up the name "Matilde" in the middle of that video is really impressive. How did you do it? :eek:

I speak Spanish & French the knowledge of both of those works wonders when faced with either Portuguese, Catalan or Italian & I understood about 96% of the video when I saw it for the 2nd time:laugh:

I didn't bother learning Portuguese for the same reason I didn't with Norwegian, I understand most of it anyways so I tend to get lazy:grumpy:

[Damião de Góis]

I speak Spanish & French the knowledge of both of those works wonders when faced with either Portuguese, Catalan or Italian & I understood about 96% of the video when I saw it for the 2nd time:laugh:

I didn't bother learning Portuguese for the same reason I didn't with Norwegian, I understand most of it anyways so I tend to get lazy:grumpy:

Well, the thing is i would bet spanish posters wouldn't get anything from that video, because that's the reality of how much spaniards understand portuguese when spoken.

So that means you're really good at understanding a language you didn't study :thumb001:

[Atlantic Islander]

The ones from the Islands are the ones more different and difficult to understand. As for the continent, everyone is talking like 7 more and more, which is the standard way of portuguese and the one spoken on TV.

In the Azores, only the dialect from São Miguel (it gets made fun of a lot), it's difficult to understand because of the French influence:

http://youtu.be/4zwnIUf4TNA

My mother has said that the accent from Terceira is a bit odd too.

[Damião de Góis]

In the Azores, only the dialect from São Miguel (it gets made fun of a lot), it's difficult to understand because of the French influence:

http://youtu.be/4zwnIUf4TNA

My mother has said that the accent from Terceira is a bit odd too.

lol, yes that's the one. It reminded me of a colleague from college which we never understood what he said and we just nodded our heads when he talked. But by the 2nd year we got used to it. :D

[Riki]

lol, yes that's the one. It reminded me of a colleague from college which we never understood what he said and we just nodded our heads when he talked. But by the 2nd year we got used to it. :D

I like the regional expressions.
My Sister lives in the Algarve.I visit her a lot.At one time we went out with some friends of her(Algarvios).
And one of them looked at my trousers and asked me:
-"E tu,porque Mar pescaste esse Peixe moc.?"
Claro deixou-me a pensar por uns segundos.(Que peixe?):)

[Damião de Góis]

I like the regional expressions.
My Sister lives in the Algarve.I visit her a lot.At one time we went out with some friends of her(Algarvios).
And one of them looked at my trousers and asked me:
-"E tu,porque Mar pescaste esse Peixe moc.?"
Claro deixou-me a pensar por uns segundos.(Que peixe?):)

"Moce" :D

Yes i'm also familiar with them. Also with Alentejo accents (my parents are from there).

[Sikeliot]

One time I was with my mother in public and she was on the phone with my aunt (talking in Portuguese) and someone who we ran into who know me said to me "I didn't know your mother spoke Russian!" Now obviously she wasn't speaking Russian and the person telling me this did not know Russian, but they (used to hearing Brazilian Portuguese) mistook what my mom was speaking for Russian because it did not sound like what she thought Portuguese sounded like.

[Riki]

One time I was with my mother in public and she was on the phone with my aunt (talking in Portuguese) and someone who we ran into who know me said to me "I didn't know your mother spoke Russian!" Now obviously she wasn't speaking Russian and the person telling me this did not know Russian, but they (used to hearing Brazilian Portuguese) mistook what my mom was speaking for Russian because it did not sound like what she thought Portuguese sounded like.


I was asked the same,like 2 or 3 times in England.
Portuguese tend to use Portuguese coffee shops as well as lot of English People.
When the Portuguese are speaking among them,usually we are asked such question.
And I tell them.
"No mate,Portuguese is as close to Russian as English is too Chinese.":D

[Riki]

"Moce" :D

Yes i'm also familiar with them. Also with Alentejo accents (my parents are from there).

He was asking me where did I got those trousers from.

[Didriksson]

Portuguese definitely is more closely related to Russian than English to Chinese, but I know what you mean. ;)
Next time give them an answer that Portuguese and English both are equally related to Russian. ;)

[Riki]

Portuguese definitely is more closely related to Russian than English to Chinese, but I know what you mean. ;)
Next time give them an answer that Portuguese and English both are equally related to Russian. ;)

The first time I was ask If we were speaking Russian.
I actually was surprised they didn't said we were speaking Spanish.:)

[Didriksson]

The first time I was ask If we were speaking Russian.
I actually was surprised they didn't said we were speaking Spanish.:)

Spanish and Portuguese sound really different to my ears. :)

btw, do you guys understand each other?

[Didriksson]

I must add that I don't think that Portuguese sounds particulary Russian. Imo, for all those who have no clue about the Slavic languages they all sound the same. I speak Russian and yes even I hear the Slavic vibe, but I also hear that it is a Romance language and that mix between Romance and Slavic makes it sound really interesting, I like it.

[Damião de Góis]

Spanish and Portuguese sound really different to my ears. :)

btw, do you guys understand each other?

We understand them, but they don't understand us. I think it's the same with dutch and german.

But that's individual anyway i guess. I have friends who say they don't get spanish at all. But the relation is mostly the one i described above i think.

[Sikeliot]

There are two main comments I've heard about the sound of European Portuguese;

1) It sounds Russian/Polish/other Slavic
2) It sounds like French

[Riki]

Spanish and Portuguese sound really different to my ears. :)

btw, do you guys understand each other?

To some extent,yes.
Also depends from what region in Spain.
And then we have the ones (In both sides)that are reluctant to understand.:D
I think its about 85% interchangeable.

[Didriksson]

I doesn't sound French to my ears, I even don't hear the similarities.

[Didriksson]

To some extent,yes.
Also depends from what region in Spain.
And then we have the ones (In both sides)that are reluctant to understand.:D
I think its about 85% interchangeable.

85% :o That's a lot!

[Sikeliot]

I doesn't sound French to my ears, I even don't hear the similarities.

How does it sound to you?

I just know it (surprisingly) does not sound Spanish and even less like Italian. However I think Spanish, Italian, and to some extent Romanian sound alike.

[Didriksson]

How does it sound to you?

I just know it (surprisingly) does not sound Spanish and even less like Italian. However I think Spanish, Italian, and to some extent Romanian sound alike.

Check the 1st and the 3rd page. :)

[Sikeliot]

Ah ok I see. makes sense :)

Personally if I didn't know some Portuguese and didn't know it was a Romance language, I'd never know it by how it sounds. Brazilian Portuguese sounds more Latin-like though because of Italian and Spanish influences on its sound.

[Riki]

Ah ok I see. makes sense :)

Personally if I didn't know some Portuguese and didn't know it was a Romance language, I'd never know it by how it sounds. Brazilian Portuguese sounds more Latin-like though because of Italian and Spanish influences on its sound.

Dont get me wrong Clem.
But to me Brazilian sounds like lazy Portuguese.

[Sikeliot]

Dont get me wrong Clem.
But to me Brazilian sounds like lazy Portuguese.

Oh undoubtedly it sounds like lazy Portuguese, it is the Portuguese equivalent of a US southern accent and very drawn out.

But it sounds more Romance/Latin overall nonetheless, just with a drawl.

[Riki]

I doesn't sound French to my ears, I even don't hear the similarities.

Because lots of People are not aware of Portuguese History.
When they hear Portuguese speaking,they think its some kind of dialect.
Because of the sound of the R, its French,the Sh, its Russian or "Its like Spanish isn't It"

[Sikeliot]

I have heard a lot of ignorant comments about Portugal from Americans, including;

"Portugal, oh that's part of Spain right?"

"Is that in South America?!?!" "Wait no, the Caribbean!"

"Are Portugal and Brazil two names for the same place?"

etc.

[Riki]

Oh undoubtedly it sounds like lazy Portuguese, it is the Portuguese equivalent of a US southern accent and very drawn out.

But it sounds more Romance/Latin overall nonetheless, just with a drawl.

Not quiet with you on this one.
What gives the Latin sound I think its what we have to stop using.
Like carácter, If you say carater no way can sound Latin.

[Didriksson]

I have heard a lot of ignorant comments about Portugal from Americans, including;

"Portugal, oh that's part of Spain right?"

"Is that in South America?!?!" "Wait no, the Caribbean!"

"Are Portugal and Brazil two names for the same place?"

etc.

Americans also think that people in Latin America speak Latin. ;) (I mean the dead language).

[Sikeliot]

Americans also think that people in Latin America speak Latin. ;) (I mean the dead language).

I've also heard

"Are you Brazilian?"

Me: "No.. Portuguese.."

"Oh, same thing.. Brazilians are Portuguese so close enough!"

[Guapo]

Like drunk spaniards

[Didriksson]

I've also heard

"Are you Brazilian?"

Me: "No.. Portuguese.."

"Oh, same thing.. Brazilians are Portuguese so close enough!"

Ok, are you from Brazil? Were they asking about your nationality or ethnicity?

[Sikeliot]

Ok, you are from Brazil? Were they asking about your nationality or ethnicity?

I'm not Brazilian at all. My family came from Portugal to the US. I was illustrating how ignorant Americans are with regards to Portugal (and more generally Iberia).

[Didriksson]

I'm not Brazilian at all. My family came from Portugal to the US. I was illustrating how ignorant Americans are with regards to Portugal (and more generally Iberia).

So you have never lived in Brazil, now I get it. ;)
I don't want to say anything bad about Americans, but they are quite ignorant.

[Guapo]

Like drunk russians

[Riki]

So you have never lived in Brazil, now I get it. ;)
I don't want to say anything bad about Americans, but they are quite ignorant.

So Ignorant that they (Most):) don't even know their history.
Because Portugal was the first to recognise US`s Independence.

[The Journeyman]

Like drunken spanish. But I also hear similarities with Russian.

[Riki]

Like drunken spanish. But I also hear similarities with Russian.

Did you ever heard a drunken Spanish speaking?:rolleyes:

[Phil75231]

Like a cross between Spanish and a Slavic language.

[Sikeliot]

That seems to be the general consensus it looks like :)

[Damião de Góis]

Here is a drunk spaniard for comparison, the guy in blue :coffee:

61IiqTkB1N0

[Riki]

Here is a drunk spaniard for comparison, the guy in blue :coffee:

61IiqTkB1N0


Esta vivo?
Por ahora si. HEHEH£

[Midori]

I like it :) I remember I used to watch this Brazilian TV series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_Clone) when I was younger and I even picked up a few words from it.

I have no idea why some people think it sounds like Russian... And my mum even went that far to say it sounds like Albanian to her lol

[Sikeliot]

And my mum even went that far to say it sounds like Albanian to her lol

From the little of Albanian I have heard, I agree.

[The Journeyman]

Did you ever heard a drunken Spanish speaking?:rolleyes:

Well, in terms of the more relaxed way of speaking and the drawing out of the vowels.

[Sikeliot]

Well, in terms of the more relaxed way of speaking and the drawing out of the vowels.

Only Brazilian Portuguese has drawn out vowels. European Portuguese's vowels are short and clipped.

[Zephyr]

Like Russians trying to speak Spanish:D I often try to imitate the intonation and pronounciation for fun. Overall cool.

One question I have - are there substantial regional differences in language? Like local dialects and etc or is Portugal homogenous?

Only the Micaelense in Açores can be considered a dialect. Everything else are accent variations and colloquialisms. There's an interesting split between urban people who adopted the french R (guttural) and those who pronounce it like in most of other romance languages (roll). See below.


There are important differences in comparison with spanish though:

...

- our Rs sound different too.


That's because you were raised in a Lisbon-influenced area ;) Everywhere else Rs are just like spanish or italian, even in places like Torres Vedras. Funny that we notice your Rs, but you never notice ours, very typical :D

[Damião de Góis]

.
That's because you were raised in a Lisbon-influenced area ;) Everywhere else Rs are just like spanish or italian, even in places like Torres Vedras. Funny that we notice your Rs, but you never notice ours, very typical :D

Hum... that might be true but TV is making everyone speak like that, so...

[Sikeliot]

Madeira accents are interesting as well.. not quite as distinct as Azorean ones but distinct nonetheless.

[2Cool]

Only the Micaelense in Açores can be considered a dialect. Everything else are accent variations and colloquialisms. There's an interesting split between urban people who adopted the french R (guttural) and those who pronounce it like in most of other romance languages (roll). See below.



That's because you were raised in a Lisbon-influenced area ;) Everywhere else Rs are just like spanish or italian, even in places like Torres Vedras. Funny that we notice your Rs, but you never notice ours, very typical :D

I actually hate the R sound used in the Lisbon/Setubal area, they should stop using it.

[Damião de Góis]

I actually hate the R sound used in the Lisbon/Setubal area, they should stop using it.

I don't know any other way of speak. My parents who are from Alentejo also speak like that, as do all my friends. People who say the R sound like the spanish or Italians are a minority in my opinion, and not the other way around.

[2Cool]

I don't know any other way of speak. My parents who are from Alentejo also speak like that, as do all my friends. People who say the R sound like the spanish or Italians are a minority in my opinion, and not the other way around.

That's funny because everyone I know doesn't speak that way lol. But I live in Canada. It might be because the immigrants here don't come from the big cities and weren't influence by the accent from Lisbon.

[Zephyr]

That's funny because everyone I know doesn't speak that way lol. But I live in Canada. It might be because the immigrants here don't come from the big cities and weren't influence by the accent from Lisbon.

Exactly. In the rural side is very rare to hear the guttural R. In cities like Coimbra or Leiria it's 50/50. In Beja, Viseu or Bragança the guttural R is practically non existent.

For what I read, it was considered classy in the beginning of the 19th century, you know, gallicism was fashionable. A tonne of words were also imported at that time:

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicismo#Uso_de_palavras_francesas_aportuguesadas

The influence of the capital in the language is detrimental. People speak like teachers and media, thus the trend will be the extinction of traditional forms. Unfortunately.

[Damião de Góis]

Exactly. In the rural side is very rare to hear the guttural R. In cities like Coimbra or Leiria it's 50/50. In Beja, Viseu or Bragança the guttural R is practically non existent.

For what I read, it was considered classy in the beginning of the 19th century, you know, gallicism was fashionable. A tonne of words were also imported at that time:

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicismo#Uso_de_palavras_francesas_aportuguesadas

The influence of the capital in the language is detrimental. People speak like teachers and media, thus the trend will be the extinction of traditional forms. Unfortunately.

How would you explain my parents using that R sound, considering they are both from Alentejo? Since i learned how to speak from them, that's the reason why my R sound is like that. But how could they be exposed to Lisbon galicisms, if they are just simple people from Alentejo, near Grândola? They also were not exposed to TV in the same way i was, not even close.

[2Cool]

I think that Gallicism is the reason why in Portuguese we don't pronounce the last vowel of a word if it's an "e" and typically eat out vowels. Brazilian Portuguese wasn't affected by this since the change was pretty recent.

[Damião de Góis]

I think that Gallicism is the reason why in Portuguese we don't pronounce the last vowel of a word if it's an "e" and typically eat out vowels. Brazilian Portuguese wasn't affected by this since the change was pretty recent.

:confused:

Examples?

[Riki]

Exactly. In the rural side is very rare to hear the guttural R. In cities like Coimbra or Leiria it's 50/50. In Beja, Viseu or Bragança the guttural R is practically non existent.

For what I read, it was considered classy in the beginning of the 19th century, you know, gallicism was fashionable. A tonne of words were also imported at that time:

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicismo#Uso_de_palavras_francesas_aportuguesadas

The influence of the capital in the language is detrimental. People speak like teachers and media, thus the trend will be the extinction of traditional forms. Unfortunately.


Pois ,tal como não e costume ouvir palavras como;Testo(Tampa da panela), sertã(Frigideira)etc.

[Riki]

I think that Gallicism is the reason why in Portuguese we don't pronounce the last vowel of a word if it's an "e" and typically eat out vowels. Brazilian Portuguese wasn't affected by this since the change was pretty recent.


You right,Per ex.Ponte when we say It sounds like Pont.

"Brazilian Portuguese wasn't affected" Of course not.It has always been said.
Pontj in Brazil.:lightbul:

[Damião de Góis]

You right,Per ex.Ponte when we say It sounds like Pont.

"Brazilian Portuguese wasn't affected" Of course not.It has always been said.
Pontj in Brazil.:lightbul:

I don't know any other way of saying "ponte", and it's fine as it is. I don't think that is a "galicism", it's probably how it has always been. "Ponte" said the spanish or italian way would sound very weird and unnatural.

[Riki]

I don't know any other way of saying "ponte", and it's fine as it is. I don't think that is a "galicism", it's probably how it has always been. "Ponte" said the spanish or italian way would sound very weird and unnatural.

Just like you I dont think is Galicism as well.
I think its just the natural sound.
And I dont think Galicians say ponte like we do either.

[2Cool]

I don't know any other way of saying "ponte", and it's fine as it is. I don't think that is a "galicism", it's probably how it has always been. "Ponte" said the spanish or italian way would sound very weird and unnatural.

I don't know, a lot of website that I have seen state that French had a big influence in the pronunciation of Portuguese during the 18th century.

[Damião de Góis]

I don't know, a lot of website that I have seen state that French had a big influence in the pronunciation of Portuguese during the 18th century.

In Lisbon? Could be... but how do people say "ponte" in different regions of Portugal?

[2Cool]

In Lisbon? Could be... but how do people say "ponte" in different regions of Portugal?

MMh... that's a good point. Maybe it happened long enough that it was able to influence most of Portugal? However I know that some areas in Portugal, particularly Minho (mostly rural now I guess), stress their vowels more and the 's' doesn't have a shhh pronunciation as pronounced. I have a hard time finding a video to show you this... I found this one but it's a bit of a joke video since it's a compilation of ridiculous people being interviewed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjxyOm_kBhw&feature=related

Listen to the first woman, sure she's a parola (for you English speakers, she's pretty much a hillbilly) and manages to add some french words while speaking lol but notice how she pronounces some of the words (like "ele" and and how she pronounces the "s" in travões, todos). But this could be an influence from Spanish since they live close to the border. I know areas that are closer to the Spanish Border in the Beiras that even pronounce the 'ch' as tch.

[Damião de Góis]

MMh... that's a good point. Maybe it happened long enough that it was able to influence most of Portugal? However I know that some areas in Portugal, particularly Minho (mostly rural now I guess), stress their vowels more and the 's' doesn't have a shhh pronunciation as pronounced. I have a hard time finding a video to show you this... I found this one but it's a bit of a joke video since it's a compilation of ridiculous people being interviewed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjxyOm_kBhw&feature=related

Listen to the first woman, sure she's a parola (for you English speakers, she's pretty much a hillbilly) and manages to add some french words while speaking lol but notice how she pronounces some of the words (like "ele" and and how she pronounces the "s" in travões, todos). But this could be an influence from Spanish since they live close to the border. I know areas that are closer to the Spanish Border in the Beiras that even pronounce the 'ch' as tch.

I don't think she has anything to do with spanish people, and they probably wouldn't get anything she is saying. That way of saying the S's is not normal at all, and you did a good job at finding a video with that woman. I wouldn't be able to do it, it would be like finding a needle in a haystack as we say. Which makes her irrelevant on a wider scale.
The ideia that the way we don't stress our vowels, say our S's or end our words is due to french influence in the 19th century is ludicrous in my opinion.

[Zephyr]

How would you explain my parents using that R sound, considering they are both from Alentejo? Since i learned how to speak from them, that's the reason why my R sound is like that. But how could they be exposed to Lisbon galicisms, if they are just simple people from Alentejo, near Grândola? They also were not exposed to TV in the same way i was, not even close.

Unconscious adaptation, for example, I noticed friends of mine who went to Lisbon now mix the pronouncing of the R in the same sentence, like "isso 'tá errhado, porra"... I go and ask them "hey, how do you pronounce the R? rr or rrh?" and they reply... "huh, never thought much about it". :D

[Damião de Góis]

Unconscious adaptation, for example, I noticed friends of mine who went to Lisbon now mix the pronouncing of the R in the same sentence, like "isso 'tá errhado, porra"... I go and ask them "hey, how do you pronounce the R? rr or rrh?" and they reply... "huh, never thought much about it". :D

João Aguardela said his R's in a pretty strong way and he was from Lisbon.
On the other hand Rui Reininho or Rui Veloso says their R's pretty much like i do. So this is probably more than a "Lisbon thing".

[Riki]

I don't know, a lot of website that I have seen state that French had a big influence in the pronunciation of Portuguese during the 18th century.
Thats the usual under-look that we are used to.
I think there was not enough time.Plus when was that?During the War?
"Dont miss just after the Battle a lesson in Portuguese from a French Soldier.":)

[Sikeliot]

I don't know, a lot of website that I have seen state that French had a big influence in the pronunciation of Portuguese during the 18th century.

This would make sense as to why the vowels are clipped and often dropped. French lacks a lot of final vowels that the other Romance language has, in spelling as well.

[Damião de Góis]

In any case, i can accept french influence on Lisbon's aristocracy or on intelectuals more familiar with french works. But on the city as whole? I doubt it. Even less on surrounding areas.

Remember this was the 1800s and there was no media, or TV, or music, etc.

[Riki]

This would make sense as to why the vowels are clipped and often dropped. French lacks a lot of final vowels that the other Romance language has, in spelling as well.
The Portuguese Language has one of the most complex phonetic systems.
Hence the easiness that most of us use when imitating foreign accents and Languages.
Another curiosity is why then we don't pronounce the R like the English or the Spanish?
After all they are the Euros with whom our aristocracy had more contact with.

[Zephyr]

João Aguardela said his R's in a pretty strong way and he was from Lisbon.
On the other hand Rui Reininho or Rui Veloso says their R's pretty much like i do. So this is probably more than a "Lisbon thing".

Most people in urban areas say it the "modern" way whether it's Porto or even Braga. The most extreme case is in Setubal, where many The guttural R in France also started as a minor trend. It's not part of the romance speaking reality.

[Zephyr]

In any case, i can accept french influence on Lisbon's aristocracy or on intelectuals more familiar with french works. But on the city as whole? I doubt it. Even less on surrounding areas.

Remember this was the 1800s and there was no media, or TV, or music, etc.

It was not something that began only in the upper classes, actually it penetrated better in the non affluent classes. Many french industries established plants in the Setubal and Lisbon areas, people tried to imitate their exotic accented employers, you know how trends spread, like the "ya" and "bue", it's viral and traversal.

In Porto you also have people saying the simple "r" in a retroflex funny way, guess whom they got that from...

You seem to doubt what I'm saying, I asure you I'm not making up theories, you can search on the subject like I did or ask a philologist or someone with knowledge on the subject. ;)

[Damião de Góis]

It was not something that began only in the upper classes, actually it penetrated better in the non affluent classes. Many french industries established plants in the Setubal and Lisbon areas, people tried to imitate their exotic accented employers, you know how trends spread, like the "ya" and "bue", it's viral and traversal.

In Porto you also have people saying the simple "r" in a retroflex funny way, guess whom they got that from...

You seem to doubt what I'm saying, I asure you I'm not making up theories, you can search on the subject like I did or ask a philologist or someone with knowledge on the subject. ;)

No, i don't think you are someone who would make stuff up. So there's something to it, i'm sure. But i am doubting how simple folk like my parents who are from Alentejo would get exposed to that thing. Unless they got it when they moved to Setúbal... but they were already adults when that happened.

[Riki]

PRONUNCIATION AND UNDERSTANDING PORTUGUESE

NOTE: The rules given below refer to Portuguese as spoken in Portugal. Some of them don't apply to Brazilian Portuguese pronunciation.

At first the Portuguese language can seem difficult to understand, since as one of the Romance languages derived from Latin, one expects it to be close to the resonant rattle of Spanish or the Romantic cadences of Italian. Instead, its closed vowels and shushing consonants sound closer to an Eastern European language. But knowledge of Spanish, Italian, or French does help to decipher the written word.

Having an idea of French pronunciation helps to pronounce nasalized vowels, which are indicated by a tilde (~) over them or are followed by "m" or "n." The Portuguese word for wool, lã, therefore sounds roughly like the French word lin. Also helpful is knowing that the suffix "-ção" is the equivalent of the English "-tion," so informação is "information," and nação is "nation," for example. These words form their plural by changing the suffix to "-ções" (so nação becomes nações).

The cedilla under the "c" serves exactly the same purpose as in French -- to transform the "c" into a "ss" sound in front of the vowels "a," "o," and "u" (Açores, Graça, etc.).

The accent usually falls on the next-to-last syllable (Fado, azulejos, etc.), except when there's an acute accent to indicate the proper pronunciation (sábado, república, está, etc.).

As in other Romance languages, things are either masculine or feminine, with most masculine nouns ending in "o" and most feminine ones ending in "a."

à is much like the French "-an" ending
ÃO sounds like a nasal "ow"
C has an "s" sound before "e" and "i"
Ç functions as in French, pronounced as an "s"
CH is soft: chá (tea) sounds like sha
E at the end of a word is silent, unless it has an accent: it is silent in doze (twelve), pronounced doz, but stressed in pé (foot)
EI sounds like the "a" in "table"
J is pronounced as in French (like the "s" in "pleasure"), so don't pronounce "José" as in Spanish.
G is also pronounced like the "s" in "pleasure" before "e" and "i," but hard before "a," "o," or "u"
H is silent
LH is pronounced like the Italian "gl"
NH is pronounced like the Spanish "ñ" (similar to the "ni" in "onion")
M takes on a nasal tone at the end of words, as in sim (yes)
Õ is much like the French "-on" ending
OU is pronounced similar to the "o" in "over"
QU is pronounced as a "k" before "e" or "i" but as the "qu" in "quadruplets" before "a" or "o"
R at the beginning of a word (or "rr" in the middle) is a harsh, guttural sound similar to French (in some areas of Portugal this "r" is not guttural, but strongly rolled)
R in the middle or at the end of a word is a rolled sound, close to but stronger than the English "r"
S is soft except when occurring between two vowels, when it is pronounced like a "z" (e.g. casa, meaning "house")
S at the end of a word or syllable (before another consonant) is "sh," (inglês, meaning "English" is pronounced "inglesh," and escola, meaning "school," is "eshcola"), otherwise it sounds like the "s" in "sun"
Z at the end of a word is pronounced "sh"

[Zephyr]

^^ Well, yeah, depends on how rigid vs flexible people are. For an instance I know people from north who came to Alentejo and completely lost their native accent, others didn't at all.

Besides, your folks could have had a teacher in school whom they got it from. People as old as J. H. Saraiva speak in the modern way. The possibilities are aplenty :)

ps: Another example just came to my mind: Breton is the only celtic language where the R is guttural, but unsurprisingly, though.

[Zephyr]

S at the end of a word or syllable (before another consonant) is "sh," (inglês, meaning "English" is pronounced "inglesh," and escola, meaning "school," is "eshcola"), otherwise it sounds like the "s" in "sun"
Z at the end of a word is pronounced "sh"

Isn't the final S a little weaker than a pure initial X? The SH in "dias" or "inglês" sounds less dense than an SH sound in "xaile", "china" or "caixa"... :confused:

[Riki]

[QUOTE=Zephyr;740086]Isn't the final S a little weaker than a pure initial X? The SH in "dias" or "inglês" sounds less dense than an SH sound in "xaile", "china" or "caixa"... :confused:[/QUOT well.

Yeah,Its even shorter.(The sound of X that is):thumb001:

[Damião de Góis]

^^ Well, yeah, depends on how rigid vs flexible people are. For an instance I know people from north who came to Alentejo and completely lost their native accent, others didn't at all.

Besides, your folks could have had a teacher in school whom they got it from. People as old as J. H. Saraiva speak in the modern way. The possibilities are aplenty :)

ps: Another example just came to my mind: Breton is the only celtic language where the R is guttural, but unsurprisingly, though.

They still have a bit of Alentejo accent, however i must say that this R sound (a la spanish or italian) is somewhat foreign to me, i didn't grow up listening to it...
My brother doesn't pronounce it either, logically.

[Guy234]

I didnt read what others wrote here at all,...seriously, when i heard that brazilian guy talkin some days ago, i thaught it would be a sort of language around eastern europe or somnething (they were very fair) but then i heard those latin elements and it slowly came up...but sounds very strange all in all to me.

[Damião de Góis]

I didnt read what others wrote here at all,...seriously, when i heard that brazilian guy talkin some days ago, i thaught it would be a sort of language around eastern europe or somnething (they were very fair) but then i heard those latin elements and it slowly came up...but sounds very strange all in all to me.

With all due respect to my brazilian friends, but i had "european portuguese" in mind when i made the thread, because the sound of both of them is totally different. A different thread would be needed to discuss how brazilian sounds like.

[Sabinae]

How about...a mix Spanish-Greek?? That is odd.....

[Zephyr]

How about...a mix Spanish-Greek?? That is odd.....

Not even close ;)

Soundwise spanish and greek are similar to eachother (same isochrony), portuguese phonetics are unique but somewhat close to occitan.

Our set of vowels is mostly closed. Spanish and greek are open, syllable timed and loud.

[Harmonia]

I guess it's all those 'sh', 'zh' sounds that gives Portuguese language a bit of Slavic sound. Possibly close phonetic system. Linguistic-wise Portuguese and Russian are not close, but Portuguese may sound a bit Russian for people who can't speak neither Russian nor Portuguese.

[Sikeliot]

I guess it's all those 'sh', 'zh' sounds that gives Portuguese language a bit of Slavic sound. Possibly close phonetic system. Linguistic-wise Portuguese and Russian are not close, but Portuguese may sound a bit Russian for people who can't speak neither Russian nor Portuguese.

I just always say Russian sounds like Portuguese but you can't understand any of the words :lol:

[Peyrol]

Portuguese sounds very different from the other romance languages.

[Sikeliot]

Portuguese sounds very different from the other romance languages.

So does French.

But I think phonetically, Spanish Italian and Romanian are all close.

[Harmonia]

Portuguese sounds very different from the other romance languages.

Portuguese does sound quite similar to Spanish, I would say.

[Sikeliot]

Portuguese does sound quite similar to Spanish, I would say.

Brazilian Portuguese does, somewhat. European Portuguese, not at all IMO

[Damião de Góis]

Portuguese does sound quite similar to Spanish, I would say.

No it doesn't :D

PT
SXjllqlcR0w

ES
sg9LNuph3h0

[Comte Arnau]

^ Portuguese = Chopped Spanish spoken by a Pole. :D

Nubes becomes nuvsh. :)

[noricum]

Portuguese sounds like zapping fast through Spanish TV cannels.

[Sikeliot]

What I want to know is why Portuguese sounds Slavic in sound.

[Zephyr]

What I want to know is why Portuguese sounds Slavic in sound.

Coincidence ;)

[Damião de Góis]

Portuguese sounds like zapping fast through Spanish TV cannels.

It's the other way around. Spanish people are always in a hurry when they talk. :p

More weather girls

Cn1ek4fWJfU

Oi7T8hgenDQ

[Sikeliot]

Coincidence ;)

But it has to be something.. like Visigoth influence maybe?

[Comte Arnau]

What I want to know is why Portuguese sounds Slavic in sound.

Talveshshshsh são essashshshsh eseshshshsh :tongue

[Harmonia]

What I want to know is why Portuguese sounds Slavic in sound.

Those languages seems to be pretty close in phonetic system. The pronouncation of ''R'' is quite similar in Russian and Portuguese languages. Portuguese also has high frequency of vowel suppression, as Russian does, besides that, Portuguese also has many vowels, maybe that makes it sound Russian or Slavic in general.

[noricum]

It's the other way around. Spanish people are always in a hurry when they talk. :p

Like Count Arnau mentioned already it sound like chopped off spanish. The part which is copped off, is exchanged with a "sh" sound. Much like when you change the cannel on an old TV. :D

But don't get me wrong, I really like what Portuguese sounds like.

[Sikeliot]

Those languages seems to be pretty close in phonetic system. The pronouncation of ''R'' is quite similar in Russian and Portuguese languages. Portuguese also has high frequency of vowel suppression, as Russian does, besides that, Portuguese also has many vowels, maybe that makes it sound Russian or Slavic in general.

End vowels in Portuguese are sometimes dropped and in Portuguese words ending in -es you sometimes don't hear the e.

[Zephyr]

^ Portuguese = Chopped Spanish spoken by a Pole. :D

Nubes becomes nuvsh. :)


That would be the same as saying that Catalan is Spanish spoken by a French... :shrug:

"nubes" = "nuvens" - the ending "ens" are nasal diphthongs...

noo-vaymsh...

[Comte Arnau]

Like Russian r's? Portuguese rr sounds similar to the French one, which doesn't exist in Russian. :(

[Comte Arnau]

That would be the same as saying that Catalan is Spanish spoken by a French... :shrug:


Not really. I explained what I meant with a scientific example. Try to do the same! :p

[Harmonia]

Like Russian r's? Portuguese rr sounds similar to the French one, which doesn't exist in Russian. :(

Are you sure? French ''R'' is pronounced somewhat like German one. Russians pronounce it very strongly, pretty much opposite of French ''R'', I can hear that in Portuguese as well.

[Comte Arnau]

Are you sure? French ''R'' is pronounced somewhat like German one. Russians pronounce it very strongly, pretty much opposite of French ''R'', I can hear that in Portuguese as well.

Yes, I'm pretty sure. Portuguese rr (the double one) sounds similar to the French and German r's. At least in Standard Portuguese.

[Zephyr]

But it has to be something.. like Visigoth influence maybe?

Visigoths dominated the whole peninsula... Why would they have different influences?

Why is French so different from Italian? Different fates, different outcomes...

[Damião de Góis]

But it has to be something.. like Visigoth influence maybe?

You should first ask why Galician sounds "different". Portuguese is just altered galician.

[Peyrol]

So does French.

But I think phonetically, Spanish Italian and Romanian are all close.

Written romanian is very easy, spoken not...sounds heavy slavized in the pronunciation.

French it isn't so difficult for me, but i live in Piedmont (in a city that is less than 1 hour of car from France), and piedmonteis language it's heavy "frenchized".
Spanish castillian it's also very easy for me, also if it's spoken.


Portuguese does sound quite similar to Spanish, I would say.

Certainly for your northeastern perspective about romance languages, but as romance speaker, i can assure you that spoken portugueses is very hard (except for the Brazilian variants, that are not so difficults)...written language, instead, is very easy.

[Harmonia]

Yes, I'm pretty sure. Portuguese rr (the double one) sounds similar to the French and German r's. At least in Standard Portuguese.

Well, I can't argue about that, but to my foreign ear it does sound more like a Russian 'R'.

[Zephyr]

Yes, I'm pretty sure. Portuguese rr (the double one) sounds similar to the French and German r's. At least in Standard Portuguese.

The RR is not standardised, the split is very recent and 50/50.

Besides, we don't have a standard portuguese, we don't even have an academy to tell what is standard. Each publisher chooses its own phonetic pattern.

Spain has an academy (RAE) defining Castillian. I think Galiza, Catalunya and Euskal Herriko have their academies too.

We don't have academies, we let Brazil decide on the matter. Brazil says "jump" we say "how high?".

[Peyrol]

I wonder how piedmonteis occitane sounds to foreigners...

X56RmIFgxfc

[Comte Arnau]

The RR is not standardised, the split is very recent and 50/50.

Fifty-fifty? Really?


Besides, we don't have a standard portuguese, we don't even have an academy to tell what is standard. Each publisher chooses its own phonetic pattern.

So is this false? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academia_das_Ci%C3%AAncias_de_Lisboa,_Classe_de_Le tras


Spain has an academy (RAE) defining Castillian. I think Galiza, Catalunya and Euskal Herriko have their academies too.

Yes, Spanish, Catalan, Basque, Galician and Asturian have their own Academies. Aragonese is still on its way to have an officially recognized one too.

[Zephyr]

So is this false? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academia_das_Ci%C3%AAncias_de_Lisboa,_Classe_de_Le tras

Well, you are right, yes, they don't regulate anything. It can be said the information is false, indeed. Wikipedia...

[Zephyr]

I wonder how piedmonteis occitane sounds to foreigners...

X56RmIFgxfc

Very nice, halfway between Lombard and Catalan.

[Comte Arnau]

Well, you are right, yes, they don't regulate anything. It can be said the information is false, indeed. Wikipedia...

Well, take into account that the rules and observations of all those institutions may be followed or not. I mean, the Institute of Catalan Studies here or the Royal Spanish Academy in Spain try to cope with the regulation of Catalan and Spanish, but it's not as if the media or people really pay much attention to them. Otherwise there would be thousands of words not included in the official dictionaries that shouldn't be used. :D

[Harmonia]

I've noticed that Portuguese somehow sounds quite distinct from Romanian language, though they both fall under Romanic languages category. Could Portuguese people understand general meaning of what Romanians are talking about ?

[Sikeliot]

I've noticed that Portuguese somehow sounds quite distinct from Romanian language, though they both fall under Romanic languages category. Could Portuguese people understand general meaning of what Romanians are talking about ?

I can understand Romanian more because of my knowledge of Spanish than Portuguese.

[Damião de Góis]

I've noticed that Portuguese somehow sounds quite distinct from Romanian language, though they both fall under Romanic languages category. Could Portuguese people understand general meaning of what Romanians are talking about ?

Romanian is a virtually unknown language to us. There was a similar thread on the forum about romanian language and i couldn't make much of it. The other romance languages i understand better are spanish, followed by italian.

[Peyrol]

I've noticed that Portuguese somehow sounds quite distinct from Romanian language, though they both fall under Romanic languages category. Could Portuguese people understand general meaning of what Romanians are talking about ?

I'll give you a comparison of the same text in romanian, portuguese, spanish, italian and french.

Toate fiinţele umane se nasc libere şi egale în demnitate şi în drepturi. Ele sunt înzestrate cu raţiune şi conştiinţă şi trebuie să se comporte unele faţă de altele în spiritul fraternităţii.

Todos os seres humanos nascem livres e iguais em dignidade e em direitos. Dotados de razão e de consciência, devem agir uns para com os outros em espírito de fraternidade.

Todos los seres humanos nacen libres e iguales en dignidad y derechos y, dotados como están de razón y conciencia, deben comportarse fraternalmente los unos con los otros.

Tutti gli esseri umani nascono liberi ed eguali in dignità e diritti. Essi sono dotati di ragione e di coscienza e devono agire gli uni verso gli altri in spirito di fratellanza.

Tous les êtres humains naissent libres et égaux en dignité et en droits. Ils sont doués de raison et de conscience et doivent agir les uns envers les autres dans un esprit de fraternité.

[Harmonia]

I'll give you a comparison of the same text in romanian, portuguese, spanish, italian and french.

Toate fiinţele umane se nasc libere şi egale în demnitate şi în drepturi. Ele sunt înzestrate cu raţiune şi conştiinţă şi trebuie să se comporte unele faţă de altele în spiritul fraternităţii.

Todos os seres humanos nascem livres e iguais em dignidade e em direitos. Dotados de razão e de consciência, devem agir uns para com os outros em espírito de fraternidade.

Todos los seres humanos nacen libres e iguales en dignidad y derechos y, dotados como están de razón y conciencia, deben comportarse fraternalmente los unos con los otros.

Tutti gli esseri umani nascono liberi ed eguali in dignità e diritti. Essi sono dotati di ragione e di coscienza e devono agire gli uni verso gli altri in spirito di fratellanza.

Tous les êtres humains naissent libres et égaux en dignité et en droits. Ils sont doués de raison et de conscience et doivent agir les uns envers les autres dans un esprit de fraternité.

grammatical roots of some words are similar, but it seems like Romanian language is the most distinct from other Romance languages. French also seems quite distinct, not as much, though.

[Damião de Góis]

Yes but one thing is how languages look and another is how they sound. Judging by that you would think Portuguese and Spanish sounded alike.

[Comte Arnau]

Romanian is closer to Italian than to any other Romance language, but it's true that some Romanian words are closer to the Western Iberian ones (peripheral 'Romance') than to the core, which received more innovations from Rome. For instance, calling the head as 'pot' (testa) was informal, but it replaced capo and chef in Italian and French, which nowadays use testa and tête. While the periphery use words derived from CAP-.

[Peyrol]

Romanian is closer to Italian than to any other Romance language, but it's true that some Romanian words are closer to the Western Iberian ones (peripheral 'Romance') than to the core, which received more innovations from Rome. For instance, calling the head as 'pot' (testa) was informal, but it replaced capo and chef in Italian and French, which nowadays use testa and tête. While the periphery use words derived from CAP-.

Romanian is the last survived of the east latin languages, a category of disappeared languages like Dalmatian, Pannonic and Traco-romani.

BTW, the word "Capo" is used in standard italian.

[Comte Arnau]

BTW, the word "Capo" is used in standard italian.

I thought the word capo referred to the head of a person was rather literary in modern Italian.

The word testa exists in Spanish, Portuguese and Catalan too, but it's mainly a literary word.

[Zephyr]

I've noticed that Portuguese somehow sounds quite distinct from Romanian language, though they both fall under Romanic languages category. Could Portuguese people understand general meaning of what Romanians are talking about ?

My experience:

First time I heard romanian/moldovan, it sounded a weird italian dialect to me... like "what the heck are these guys speaking... sound familiar but... Oh wait, I understood that one... he said "it's very beautiful"... yes, must be italian... some dialect, sort of... no, there he goes again, now I don't understand it anymore... Probably an albanian speaking italian?... neapolitan maybe? No... it's very distinct..."

Written, all latin languages start to make sense after we read a text several times, it's like Sudoku, you take more or less time, but you'll end completing the puzzle. Romanian is a level 4 Sudoku to me. Latin proper is level 5. Italian and French should be level 4 as well, but both are widespread, thus I'm acquainted with them, making it level 3, let's say. Maybe 2 to me, since I had basic classes.

[Peyrol]

I thought the word capo referred to the head of a person was rather literary in modern Italian.

The word testa exists in Spanish, Portuguese and Catalan too, but it's mainly a literary word.

"Capo" and "testa" are exchangeable, but "capo" is more formal.

[Peyrol]

This is interesting: the complete tree of romance languages

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Italic_languages_tree.svg

[Lurker]

So Ignorant that they (Most):) don't even know their history.
Because Portugal was the first to recognise US`s Independence.

I thought it was Morocco, in 1777. Which one was the first to recognize the US?

[Comte Arnau]

This is interesting: the complete tree of romance languages

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Italic_languages_tree.svg

^ Not bad at all, in comparison with what I often see. And a very big one indeed. Nice tree.

But I don't quite get the location of some languages. What is Catalan doing between Spanish and Portuguese, so far from Occitan? :confused:

What is Arpitan doing with Iberian languages, so far from French/Oilitan? :confused:

Riojano-Navarrese isn't/wasn't an Old Castilian dialect, but an Aragonese one. The consideration of the Glosas Emilianenses and La Rioja as the cradle of Spanish is an old-fashioned wrong statement that is still heard from non-linguists and seen in many reprinted books.

[Peyrol]

^ Not bad at all, in comparison with what I often see. And a very big one indeed. Nice tree.

But I don't quite get the location of some languages. What is Catalan doing between Spanish and Portuguese, so far from Occitan? :confused:

What is Arpitan doing with Iberian languages, so far from French? :confused:

Riojano-Navarrese isn't/wasn't an Old Castilian dialect, but an Aragonese one. The consideration of the Glosas Emilianenses and La Rioja as the cradle of Spanish is an old-fashioned wrong statement that is still heard from non-linguists and seen in many reprinted books.

I think that the close positions of the language that don't belongs to the same trees haven't a relation.

Actually, there are some theories who puts both catalan and piedmonteis as occitane dialects....maybe it's true for piedmonteis, but i don't know for catalan...actually, sounds very easy for me as language, ever if it's spoken.

[HungAryan]

Portuguese sounds like a mix between Spanish and French.
The Portuguese and French pronounce J as ZH (like in Zhukov, or my given name Zsolt, or measure, Ahmadinejad, etc.), and the Spanish pronounce J as H, like in "Hell".

[Comte Arnau]

I think that the close positions of the language that don't belongs to the same trees haven't a relation.

Actually, there are some theories who puts both catalan and piedmonteis as occitane dialects....maybe it's true for piedmonteis, but i don't know for catalan...actually, sounds very easy for me as language, ever if it's spoken.

Catalan is very likely an incursion of Old Southern Languedocian into Romanized Basco-Iberian lands which spoke a sort of late Tarraconensian Latin. It grew as an independent language from Occitan already in the 10th century, but for some centuries both were perceived as extremely close languages. With Romanticism, attempts were made to rejoin both languages, but they were more political than linguistic, more idealistic than realistic. Some associations still persist on this brothership, such as the CAOC (http://www.caoc.cat/index.html).

http://webs.racocatala.cat/cat1714/i/caoc.jpg

Let's not forget that Catalonia is the only territory in the world, as far as I know, where Occitan is official (It is the third official language, after Catalan and Spanish, in its Aranese Gascon form). Although many consider Gascon a language different from Occitan, in the same way as Catalan, and they have some good reasons to say so too.

[Peyrol]

Catalan is very likely an incursion of Old Southern Languedocian into Romanized Basco-Iberian lands which spoke a sort of late Tarraconensian Latin. It grew as an independent language from Occitan already in the 10th century, but for some centuries both were perceived as extremely close languages. With Romanticism, attempts were made to rejoin both languages, but they were more political than linguistic, more idealistic than realistic. Some associations still persist on this brothership, such as the CAOC (http://www.caoc.cat/index.html).

http://webs.racocatala.cat/cat1714/i/caoc.jpg

Let's not forget that Catalonia is the only territory in the world, as far as I know, where Occitan is official (It is the third official language, after Catalan and Spanish, in its Aranese Gascon form).


Aahahaha by this map, my city would be in this hypotetical "Cataloccitane" nation. I don't know if would be a good option....both Catalunia and Piedmont (but also Languedoc/Provence) are affected by maghreb immigration...:(

Occitane it's also one of the Piedmont official languages (Italian, Piedmonteis, Occitan, Arpitan, Cuneese Gaelic Scott).

[Comte Arnau]

Aahahaha by this map, my city would be in this hypotetical "Cataloccitane" nation. I don't know if would be a good option....both Catalunia and Piedmont (but also Languedoc/Provence) are affected by maghreb immigration...:(

It'd be great. Such a country from Valencia to the Piedmont would definitely be the most beautiful in Southern Europe in all aspects! :thumb001::)

Yes, a much stricter policy regarding immigration should be followed. Cities like Marseilho and Barcelona have been appealing poles for too long.


Occitane it's also one of the Piedmont official languages (Italian, Piedmonteis, Occitan, Arpitan, Cuneese Gaelic Scott).

Cool! :thumb001:

Gaelic Scott? :confused:

[Peyrol]

It'd be great. Such a country from Valencia to the Piedmont would definitely be the most beautiful in Southern Europe in all aspects! :thumb001::)

Yes, a much stricter policy regarding immigration should be followed. Cities like Marseilho and Barcelona have been appealing poles for too long.



Cool! :thumb001:

Gaelic Scott? :confused:


Yes it's would be a great state....the beautiful sea of Costa Brava, Baleares and Provance...the greatest country paesaggi of Provence, Langhe, Monferrato and Aquitaine...and the Alps of Piedmont and Savoie...

Yes, gaelic scott is spoken in this village (http://www.comune.gurro.vb.it/) (less than 200 native speakers now...) due to the scott mercenaries used by House Savoy who decided to remains here instead returning home.

[Comte Arnau]

Wow, can't believe I hadn't heard anything about it. Awesome!

[Racial Observer 1814]

Spanish/Italian mix. Very beautiuful language, especially when women speaks it! :thumb001:

[Zephyr]

Catalan is very likely an incursion of Old Southern Languedocian into Romanized Basco-Iberian lands which spoke a sort of late Tarraconensian Latin. It grew as an independent language from Occitan already in the 10th century, but for some centuries both were perceived as extremely close languages. With Romanticism, attempts were made to rejoin both languages, but they were more political than linguistic, more idealistic than realistic. Some associations still persist on this brothership, such as the CAOC (http://www.caoc.cat/index.html).

http://webs.racocatala.cat/cat1714/i/caoc.jpg

Let's not forget that Catalonia is the only territory in the world, as far as I know, where Occitan is official (It is the third official language, after Catalan and Spanish, in its Aranese Gascon form). Although many consider Gascon a language different from Occitan, in the same way as Catalan, and they have some good reasons to say so too.

The pan trovadouresque empire? :D

[Atlantic Islander]

Madeira accents are interesting as well.. not quite as distinct as Azorean ones but distinct nonetheless.

People like to lump the Azorean islands together when it comes to dialect, but the only distinct one is from Sao Miguel, the other islands (with the exception of Terceira) sound very similar to the mainland. The Sao Miguel accent has clear French influence which is why it's so distinctive. Someone from Massachusetts would only have been exposed to the accent from Sao Miguel.

[Mauritius]

I'll admit that when I found out about this variety of Portuguese (as in Italy the knowledge of Port. we have is mainly based on the Brasilian variety) I was a bit surprised as it sounded "strange" to me compared to other Romance languages, but after listening to it daily, especially on songs, I started finding it beautiful... It surely is a bit peculiar, but in a beautiful way.. I also disagree with anyone that says it sounds too "slavic", as that's a superficial statement; Slavic languages have a quite different intonation (well, most Slavic languages have a sort of "heavier" treatment of words; but Czech sounds more musical).. this claim is mainly based on the many "Sh" sounds of it.. It also reminds me of some Southern Italians dialects (because of the SH sound in S+consonant clusters), but also of Ligurian language, that shares even more characteristics with Portuguese..
Here's a fado song from Amalia Rodrigues:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u2p1J2EvRM

[Damião de Góis]

^ I merged your thread with an older bigger one and here are the videos i posted in the beginning, which i think give a better idea than a fado song, although the 2nd is a song too:

QFAeWIKXB8g

HxgyZOVBPdI

[Transmontano]

I thought the word capo referred to the head of a person was rather literary in modern Italian.

The word testa exists in Spanish, Portuguese and Catalan too, but it's mainly a literary word.

I don't know about the others but in Portuguese "testa" means only the forehead in everyday speech. "Head" would be "cabeça"

In slang it would be "cornos" :rolleyes:

[Comte Arnau]

I don't know about the others but in Portuguese "testa" means only the forehead in everyday speech. "Head" would be "cabeça"

In slang it would be "cornos" :rolleyes:

Dicionário Priberam da Língua Portuguesa

testa |é|
s. f.
1. Parte da cara compreendida entre os olhos e a raiz dos cabelos anteriores da cabeça.
2. [Por extensão] Cabeça.
3. Protuberância ou bossa na massa do pão.
4. [Figurado] Frente.
5. Invólucro exterior da semente (opõe-se a tégmen).
6. [Marinha] Espaço compreendido entre o empunidouro da vela e o punho da escota ou amura.
7. [Zoologia] Casca dos quelónios.


I know it is not used, that's why I said it's old or literary. In Spanish the word is, when used, mainly for animal (fore)heads. They use [B]cabeza for head too. In Catalan testa is seen in poems and old texts, we say cap for head.

[Mauritius]

I'm happy that you merged the threads.. Anyways I now understand why Portuguese hate Brasilian Portuguese, after listening to the beauty of the Lusitan version (and its melodic intonation) I started finding Brasilian strage, excessively singy-songy and with too emphasis on the syllables, and too nasal.. the Lusitan version seems more "natural"

[Mauritius]

In any case, i can accept french influence on Lisbon's aristocracy or on intelectuals more familiar with french works. But on the city as whole? I doubt it. Even less on surrounding areas.

Remember this was the 1800s and there was no media, or TV, or music, etc.
Those "coincidences" are just "coincidences".. there's no external influence, that's just how Portuguese evolved.. as for uvular R French Influence is not so much to blame, it was an urban Lusitan thing for a long time, in addition it's been present for a longer time in Brasilian PT.. logically, it would become standard in the Lusitan variety, and would replace the "Spanish R- -RR-" sounds," that is now more peripheral/rural.. The change of the R to an uvular /R/ is a normal one in phonetics, it also happened in some cemtral American Spanish stigmatized accents; moreover the Portuguese/Spanish "RR" sound have a hard "trilled" and long characteristic, that even more justify a similar simplification to this sound... If it was because of "French influence" you would pronounce even words like "cara, estrela" with an uvular R, but the distinction between the two "R" is still alive..

[Comte Arnau]

and would replace the "Spanish R- -RR-" sounds,"

Spanish? The rolled r sound is the real panRomance one, man! Millions of Spaniards, Catalans and Italians can't be wrong! :p

[Smaug]

I found this video with both Portuguese and Brazilian accents. Well, actually accents vary within both countries (well, at least in Brazil it happens), but I guess it gives a general idea:

Lw31FyO3kqI

[Atlantic Islander]

This is what Portuguese (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=2535650006752) from Sao Jorge, Azores sounds like.
(https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=2528041616547)
Alexdelarge, do you hear any differences?

[Damião de Góis]

This is what Portuguese (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=2535650006752) from Sao Jorge, Azores sounds like.
(https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=2528041616547)
Alexdelarge, do you hear any differences?

She wouldn't be guessed as azorean here. People here think São Miguel accent = azorean, and that all azoreans from all islands speak like that. :p

[Jerreiche]

Sounds like Russian (no joke). Not only very hard to understand, but also I mistake it for Russian in the bus quite often.

Swarthy Rusks...they must be Caucasians or something - me thinks :D

The hardest Hispanic language for me to understand. When read though, it's as easy as Catalan or Galician

[Damião de Góis]

Sounds like Russian (no joke). Not only very hard to understand, but also I mistake it for Russian in the bus quite often.

Swarthy Rusks...they must be Caucasians or something - me thinks :D

The hardest Hispanic language for me to understand. When read though, it's as easy as Catalan or Galician

Spanish is not so hard for us. You are bad neighbours :p

In the bus? Are you sure it's the variant from here you're listening to?

[mysticism]

It does sound Russian

[Slycooper]

I've heard that Castillian speakers can't understand Portuguese as easy as Portuguese understand them. Also Portuguese and Galician is basically the same language.

[Damião de Góis]

Also Portuguese and Galician is basically the same language.

Not quite. It started off as the same, but centuries of political isolation from Portugal on one hand, and castillianization of Galicia on another hand, have made the two languages different.

[Slycooper]

Yes old Portuguese or Galician-Portuguese. But as I understand speakers of both languages can have a full conversation. I don't know for sure as I have never met a Galician. I've read that Portuguese from the high North is even more similar.

[Slycooper]

The Portuguese I am used to hearing is from the island of Pico.

[Damião de Góis]

Yes old Portuguese or Galician-Portuguese. But as I understand speakers of both languages can have a full conversation. I don't know for sure as I have never met a Galician. I've read that Portuguese from the high North is even more similar.

Probably dialects from the both sides of the Galician border are similar and people understand each other. But my guess is that a Galician in Lisbon would feel a little lost.

[Slycooper]

Probably dialects from the both sides of the Galician border are similar and people understand each other. But my guess is that a Galician in Lisbon would feel a little lost.

Ye I've read that it's gets less and less similar as you head down south.

[Atlantic Islander]

She wouldn't be guessed as azorean here. People here think São Miguel accent = azorean, and that all azoreans from all islands speak like that. :p

I guess that's one of the biggest misconceptions. Sao Miguel is the only one with it's own dialect, but my mother says that the dialect from Terceira sounds slightly off too - I don't know if that's true or not. I'm searching for a video to try and compare.

[Atlantic Islander]

Okay, here's Terceira (http://www.acorestube.com/video/4023/Inundações-na-ilha-Terceira). I don't here any differences, but idk.

[Damião de Góis]

Okay, here's Terceira (http://www.acorestube.com/video/4023/Inundações-na-ilha-Terceira). I don't here any differences, but idk.

I notice a slight accent but nothing like São Miguel, far from it.

[Atlantic Islander]

I notice a slight accent but nothing like São Miguel, far from it.

Interesting, I guess my Mother is correct :).

[Jerreiche]

Spanish is not so hard for us. You are bad neighbours :p

We should have Portuguese in school instead of French. Some autonomous communities are already offering it in the public system...though with the cuts in education... :(

The fact that Portuguese is so hard to understand where Catalan is much easier (despite Portuguese having a more similar grammar) has to do mainly with the way is spoken, the tonality, pronouncing and phonology.

Italian is even more different to Spanish than both Portuguese and Catalan and yet I'd dare to say that native Spanish speakers understand it just as good (though with a bit too many "false friends")

Portuguese also have it the most difficult to speak Spanish. They may understand it very good, but speakers of Italian master it much better. (Catalan speakers don't count, since they all are also default Spanish speakers)

[Damião de Góis]

Portuguese also have it the most difficult to speak Spanish. They may understand it very good, but speakers of Italian master it much better. (Catalan speakers don't count, since they all are also default Spanish speakers)

It's true, i don't speak it too well or even write it. But i can understand completely reading and pretty much everything listening, if the accent isn't too difficult, like some andaluzian accents.

[Comte Arnau]

(Catalan speakers don't count, since they all are also default Spanish speakers)

95%. Many children under 6, French Catalans and Algherese can't speak Spanish. ;)

[Jerreiche]

95%. Many children under 6, French Catalans and Algherese can't speak Spanish. ;)

that's still a higher percent than in certain other Comunidades :picard2:

[Comte Arnau]

that's still a higher percent than in certain other Comunidades :picard2:

Indeed. Because nobody knows what Andalusians really talk.

[Sophie]

The Brazilian dialect sounds like Albanian


SiCkauON5JQ

[Slycooper]

Sao Miguel was settled Primarily from Portuguese from the Algarve and Alentejo. While the central and western islands were settled by Portuguese from Minho. So that is probably the reason the accent is ifferent from the other Islands.

[purple]

Some sort or Russian-Swedish mixture:D

[Atlantic Islander]

Sao Miguel was settled Primarily from Portuguese from the Algarve and Alentejo. While the central and western islands were settled by Portuguese from Minho. So that is probably the reason the accent is ifferent from the other Islands.

There's French influence in the Sao Miguel accent.

4zwnIUf4TNA

2oZh9ibe-qg

[Minde]

be sound into like polak

[Mark]

When I was very young, I thought it sounded like a mix of Spanish and French. But now, I realize it just sounds unique and like itself. It's very beautiful.

[Damião de Góis]

Here are the two videos in the first post again, since they are down:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFAeWIKXB8g


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxgyZOVBPdI

[Baluarte]

Bad case of schshing and not opening mouth enough.

All in sport Alex ;)

[Atlantic Islander]

Good example here (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=2528041616547&set=vb.472160476162738&type=3)and here (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=2535650006752&set=vb.472160476162738&type=3) as well.

Too bad we can't embed facebook videos.

[HispaniaSagrada]

Once a guy heard me speak and asked me if it was Polish. I went 0_o

[Comte Arnau]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxgyZOVBPdI

I just can't get used to that DB opening. It's way too soft, sung and polished! :tongue

[Roy]

The way Portuguese pronounce vowels is very close to East Slavic languages, that's why it sounds somewhat ''Slavic''.

[Atlantic Islander]

Another video. (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=485934988118620&set=vb.472160476162738&type=3)

[Comte Arnau]

Portuguese at its best.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt1jMWVvcqg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhxti4nFTdc

[Roy]

Beautiful language and song. What do you think about polish singer's Portuguese? How would you rate it?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuhusthsUWM

Second song in two languages in one song, with Polish stanzas to compare.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S70URTg6CDo

[Damião de Góis]

Beautiful language and song. What do you think about polish singer's Portuguese? How would you rate it?


Good effort, but i don't understand her :D
Note that i barely understand Cesária Évora also, because she sings in a very thick cape verdean accent (a good parallel for this would be jamaican vs english). If you compare with the videos in the previous page you'll see differences.

[Comte Arnau]

A well-known Catalan singer-songwriter singing a Portuguese version of one of his songs. Way too literal, Catalan rhymes were not adapted into Portuguese, but is it understandable for the Lusitans in here? :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQcXt6ccp2g

[Atlantic Islander]

A well-known Catalan singer-songwriter singing a Portuguese version of one of his songs. Way too literal, Catalan rhymes were not adapted into Portuguese, but is it understandable for the Lusitans in here? :)

I can understand.

[HispaniaSagrada]

A well-known Catalan singer-songwriter singing a Portuguese version of one of his songs. Way too literal, Catalan rhymes were not adapted into Portuguese, but is it understandable for the Lusitans in here? :)

Yes I can pretty much understand.

[Svipdag]

To me, it has always sounded like slurred Spanish, about the way a very drunk Spaniard would speak. [No offense intended.]

[Damião de Góis]

A well-known Catalan singer-songwriter singing a Portuguese version of one of his songs. Way too literal, Catalan rhymes were not adapted into Portuguese, but is it understandable for the Lusitans in here? :)


More or less :D
But respect to him, he did a good job and i know it's difficult.

[Bentossaurus]

How to speak portuguese without actually doing it.

Step 1: Find a catalonian.

Step 2: Get him to read a text in Galician.

Voilá, you basically spoke portuguese.

Gallician is as you know extremely close to portuguese, but the spoken language has become very influenced by castilian. Is as if they're reading a text in portuguese but using all the spanish rules in how to pronounce sounds.

Catalan on the the other hand is farther from portuguese than spanish but the sound structure sounds to me remarkably similar, whenever I hear catalan my first reaction is always "Oh a portuguese!" and only when I realise I can't understand many of the words I recognize it's catalan.

So mix the two together and you get instant-portuguese.

[kkk77]

I believe people like languages as much as they know them.

Portuguese for most of people may sound very ugly at first, but as soon as you start understating its sounds you will start liking it. :p

I find this video one of the best examples of the standard portuguese accent:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh3W1_x7KbY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh3W1_x7KbY

I'll transcribe some sentences, in Portuguese and English. I'll also try to use the english spelling so you can understand the sounds and compare it with the portuguese spelling.


0:07
In the western shores of Europe,
where the land ends
and the wind brings the warm smells of Africa.

Nas margens ocidentais da Europa,
onde a terra acaba
e o vento traz os odores quentes de África.

Nuhj mahr-juhyn zaw-see-den-tahyj duh E-oo-ro-puh,
awnd uh teh-rrah kah-buh
ee oo ven-too trah zoo zaw-dawr-sh kent-sh dee Áh-free-kuh.

0:15
There is a country of sailors,
and friendly people.

Existe um país de marinheiros,
e gentes calorosas.

Ee-zee-sht oom puh-eejd muh-ree-nh-uhy-roo-sh,
ee jent-sh cuh-loo-ro-zuh-sh.

0:41
Portugal,
a country that you have to live deeply
to understand.

Portugal,
um país que é preciso viver profundamente
para compreender.

Poor-too-gahl,
oom puh-eesh kee eh pr-seez vee-ver proo-foon-duh-ment
puh-ruh cawm-pree-en-der.

Note: we don't pronounce the d part of the j sound. Vowels before n/m (not followed by vowel) are nasal.
Ah like in last, ow like in for, o like in lot, e/eh like in red (e sounds more like i in bin), ee like in bee, oo like in food. Bold = stress.
I transcribed how it was pronounced in connected speech. In other contexts the words can be pronounced very different.

Can you identify the sounds? :)

[Rêveur]

As a native Spanish speaker, it feels like Spanish's sister language. They are so similar in vocabulary and grammar that the few differences there are become obvious, like pronunciation and the fact that they have more vowels, the lovely accent. It sounds like Spanish with a few marked differences and like some have said, it reminds me of the Slavic languages a bit (pronunciation).

[Realista]

I don't like European Portuguese. I prefer Brazilian Portuguese, it sounds beautiful, with the exception of some Northeastern Brazilian pronunciations, which are annoying.

[Dictator]

Where I live we have three dialects:
Sulista (south), from Santa Catarina and Paraná;
Gaúcho, from Rio Grande do Sul;
and Florianopolitano, that is very "Azorean" and is spoken by most of the natives from the capital of Santa Catarina, Florianópolis.

[Bughuul]

It does sound like Russian.

[kkk77]

I don't like European Portuguese. I prefer Brazilian Portuguese, it sounds beautiful, with the exception of some Northeastern Brazilian pronunciations, which are annoying.

What don't you like exactly? You're brazilian, how would you not prefer brazilian portuguese? :p

I guess a lot of brazilian don't like portuguese portuguese because they're not used to it. Since we have a more complex phonetic system, with more closed and reduced vowels, a lot of vowel elision and even some external sandhi phenomena that don't happen in brazilian portuguese, they probably find it weird because they're always expecting open vowels and all syllables pronounced, but instead, we pronounce weird vowels. :D

[Dictator]

What don't you like exactly? You're brazilian, how would you not prefer brazilian portuguese? :p

I guess a lot of brazilian don't like portuguese portuguese because they're not used to it. Since we have a more complex phonetic system, with more closed and reduced vowels, a lot of vowel elision and even some external sandhi phenomena that don't happen in brazilian portuguese, they probably find it weird because they're always expecting open vowels and all syllables pronounced, but instead, we pronounce weird vowels. :D

Northerners also don't like the South's accent because we speak "faster". The more to the north, the lazier.

[Alexandros]

Portuguese sounds like a mix between Spanish and Dutch.

[Xochi]

Spanish spoken by someone with down syndrome.

[Damião de Góis]

Spanish spoken by someone with down syndrome.

The spanish lisp is more down syndrome like. And if you add the lisp to its machine gun pace, you could say it sounds like a down syndrome patient on speed.

[Petry]

This is the standard accent where I live, just a little faster.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EqTmrncuHY

[Xochi]

The spanish lisp is more down syndrome like. And if you add the lisp to its machine gun pace, you could say it sounds like a down syndrome patient on speed.

The Portuguese nasal vowels make Portuguese sound retarded Spanish and the 'sh' sounds. :o

[kkk77]

The Portuguese nasal vowels make Portuguese sound retarded Spanish and the 'sh' sounds. :o

So, let's see, Portuguese has:
3 ways to pronounce the A while Spanish has 1
5 ways to pronounce the E while Spanish has 1
3 ways to pronounce the I while Spanish has 1
4 ways to pronounce the O while Spanish has 1
2 ways to pronounce the U while Spanish has 1
3 ways to pronounce the S while Spanish has 1
A ton of rules defining which way should the vowel/consonant be pronounced, while in Spanish, well, there aren't much options.

In fact, if you were a retard person you better stick with Spanish, it's much more accessible to people like you. :cool:

[Vasconcelos]

The Portuguese nasal vowels make Portuguese sound retarded Spanish and the 'sh' sounds. :o

Galicians also have the 'sh' sound at the end of words and before consonants.

Oh, and calling a language 'retarded' is...:rolleyes:

[Pontios]

Sounds like a very nice and sweet version of Spanish. :lol:

[Damião de Góis]

The Portuguese nasal vowels make Portuguese sound retarded Spanish and the 'sh' sounds. :o


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOvyRjVQLjE

[Leo Iscariot]

It's honestly always sounded like French in fast-forward to me.

[kkk77]

The first part of a wild life documentary (slow speech):
You can jump to: 0:18 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhRSG2ZgnYE&t=0m18s)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhRSG2ZgnYE

A Fiber Optic Ad when it arrived to Portugal (normal speech):
You can jump to: 1:07 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KxTB1TsNMI&t=1m07s)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KxTB1TsNMI

A portuguese sketch (fast speech):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ix-Be0Dfg

The videos have english subtitles.

[Iloko]

Well I was listening to some samples of spoken Portuguese on youtube, Brazilian and Portugual dialects. And I thought the Brazil version sounded like Italian mixed with French, definitely closer sounding to those languages than to Spanish imo. The Portugual version sounds a lot different to me, sounded like a mix of Polish/EasternEuropean+French I thought.

[DaniAloneWalking]

Portuguese is very similar to spanish from a written point of view. From a spoken point of view is much more "nasal" and when I say something in Portuguese (nao o falo muito bem porem falo algo de portuguese) people think I'm speaking Romanian (I don't know romanian). A Romanian friend confirmed me that Romanian and Portuguese sounds similar from a spoken point of view, despite they're very different from a written point of wiew.

[ConjureExLibris]

Well, Portugal Port just sounds like a weird spanish to me. As for Brazil Port, it sounds like they talk inside their mouths...very odd, yet it's one of, if not the most favorite language of mine.

[Lusos]

Well, Portugal Port just sounds like a weird spanish to me. As for Brazil Port, it sounds like they talk inside their mouths...very odd, yet it's one of, if not the most favorite language of mine.

Couldn't It be that Castillian sounds like a "Weird" Portuguese ?

[ConjureExLibris]

Couldn't It be that Castillian sounds like a "Weird" Portuguese ?

No. Spanish is more widespread than Portuguese...it's the minority in this situation.

[Damião de Góis]

No. Spanish is more widespread than Portuguese...it's the minority in this situation.

In your part of the world... yes.

[Immortal Technique]

Sometimes it sounds like russian for real

[ConjureExLibris]

Rank 6 Portuguese [por] Portugal 12 countries that speak this 203 million speakers

Rank 2 Spanish [spa] Spain 31 countries that speak this 414 million speakers

http://www.ethnologue.com/statistics/size

[Ianus]

Despite the proximity of the languages, pronunciation of Portuguese is quite different fron Spanish.

[Damião de Góis]

Rank 6 Portuguese [por] Portugal 12 countries that speak this 203 million speakers

Rank 2 Spanish [spa] Spain 31 countries that speak this 414 million speakers

http://www.ethnologue.com/statistics/size

Brazil alone has 200 million people. In any case, it ranks high enough not to be confused with spanish.

[Dictator]

Brazil alone has 200 million people. In any case, it ranks high enough not to be confused with spanish.

There's something wrong with those numbers... :bored:

[kkk77]

Couldn't It be that Castillian sounds like a "Weird" Portuguese ?

We could say that if we were talking about spanish.

Portuguese and Spanish are very similar, that's why Portuguese sounds like weird Spanish and Spanish sounds like weird Portuguese, of course.

[Lusos]

We could say that if we were talking about spanish.

Portuguese and Spanish are very similar, that's why Portuguese sounds like weird Spanish and Spanish sounds like weird Portuguese, of course.

I don't like comparisons that's all.

Portuguese sounds French,Russian,Spanish,Romanian.
But you never see people saying that Spanish,French,Russian,Romanian or whatever sound Portuguese.

It's as If we don't have our own Language.The same way we look like everyone.But no one looks like us.

Don't you find It Interesting to say the least ?

Phoenician - c. 1000 BC: Ahiram epitaph
Aramaic - 10th century BC
Hebrew - 10th century BC: Gezer calendar
Ammonite - c. 850 BC: Amman Citadel inscription[21]
Moabite - c. 840 BC: Mesha Stele
Phrygian - c. 800 BC: Paleo-Phrygian inscriptions at Gordion
Old North Arabian - c. 800 BC
Old South Arabian - c. 800 BC
Etruscan - c. 700 BC: proto-Corinthian vase found at Tarquinia[22]
Latin - 7th century BC: Vetusia Inscription and Fibula Praenestrina from Praeneste[23]
Umbrian - c. 600 BC
North Picene - c. 600 BC
Lepontic - c. 600 BC
Tartessian - c. 600 BC
Lydian - c. 600 BC[15]
Carian - c. 600 BC[15]
Thracian - c. 6th century BC
Venetic - late 6th century BC: inscriptions as Este
Old Persian - c. 500 BC: Behistun inscription
South Picene - c. 500 BC
Messapian - c. 500 BC
Gaulish - c. 500 BC
Oscan - c. 400 BC
Iberian - c. 400 BC
Meroitic - c. 300 BC
Faliscan - c. 300 BC
Volscian - c. 275 BC
Middle Indo-Aryan (Prakrit) - c. 260 BC: Edicts of Ashoka[24][25] (Pottery inscriptions from Anuradhapura have been dated c. 400 BC.[26][27])
Tamil - c. 200 BC: cave inscriptions and potsherds in Tamil Nadu[28][29]
Galatian - c. 200 BC
Pahlavi - c. 130–170 BC
Celt-Iberian - c. 100 BC

[Comte Arnau]

Nah, there's no way one can say that Portuguese "sounds" like a weird Spanish. One may confuse them in written texts, but if there's something that is really different between both is the sound. Nobody would ever hear Spanish and think it's Russian or Polish, but it can happen with spoken Portuguese. Castilian is a dry language, like Greek. Both sound similar. Portuguese is a wet language instead, like Polish.

[kkk77]

I don't understand what wet and dry means for characterizing a language. :p

[Comte Arnau]

I don't understand what wet and dry means for characterizing a language. :p

To my ear, if there is a relatively high number of sibilants and they are frequent, then the language sounds "wet".

If there are fewer or not so frequent sibilants but there is a remarkable presence of other fricatives, like TH, RR or HH (as in Castilian, Greek or Arabic), then it sounds "dry". :)

[MellowD]

It sounds sometimes like the romanian spoken in Moldavia region or in Moldova. :)

[Han Cholo]

It sounds like Spanish with lots of ao, sh, ou and ch sounds. I apologize for the crude and condescending comparison, but it's the quicker and most effective way to describe it for me.

[DaniAloneWalking]

The "shs" sound is quite difficult to learn, for example the world "excelente"

[Lusos]

The "shs" sound is quite difficult to learn, for example the world "excelente"

It's the particular phonetics that makes almost all foreigners sound Brazilian to us.

[Lusos]

The "shs" sound is quite difficult to learn, for example the world "excelente"

Try this then.

"Anticonstitucionalissimamente" ;)

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Sounds like italian and spanish to me but with a side of its own flavor

[Lusos]

Sounds like italian and spanish to me but with a side of its own flavor


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Oj1zIYiiY-s



Are you sure ?

[kkk77]

The "shs" sound is quite difficult to learn, for example the world "excelente"

It's easy: /ɐjʃ.sɨ.ˈlẽ.tɨ/ (slow speech), /ˈʃlẽt/ (fast speech)

The s/x/z are pronounced like SH or J at the end of syllables when followed by a voiceless or voiced consonant.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Oj1zIYiiY-s

Are you sure ?
Yes, some words are alittle different but the way its spoken is basicly the same. They sound alot alike but just have a different kind of accent.

[Xochi]

Like this.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YzDsDMYqdw

[Vasconcelos]

That's gibberish.

[pinguino]

Sound like Spanish when eating a whole potato.

[Guapo]

=

Does it really sound slavic like some people say?

In some ways, yes

[Conte Mascetti]

Seems Ligurian dialect.

[Eusocial]

Uses a lot of diphthongs relative to Spanish. Orthography is also a mess, just like French and Gaelic. Is that some kind of Celtic residue, the revolt against simple vowels and the straightforward pronunciation of the Roman alphabet?

Idk. Spanish is a more efficient but less beautiful language for that reason.