Response to Hess - Europeanness and race

[Thunor]

This thread (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42455) got closed down (for other reasons) before I could respond to Hess' posts, so I am continuing the debate here.


I define "pure European" as any person of wholly European descent.
So do I.


We can't just excommunicate parts of Europe because we feel that they aren't "pure" enough by dubious nordicist racial standards.
You do sound like the typical anti-white multiculturalist, with your talk about "dubious nordicist standards" and that race doesn't matter at all.

Here, I'll post two photos of two Italians and make it easier for you:

EUROPEAN MAN:

http://www.openpolis.it/politician/picture?content_id=323


NON-EUROPEAN WOG:

http://www.krisvdv.net/pixelpost/images/20070916111234_sicilian_man_sigar.jpg

Understand?

[Padre Organtino]

That dude is probably just tanned. What would you say about this gentleman?

http://www.mger2020.ru/files/baisarov-1012.jpg

http://xronika.az/uploads/photo_archive/ruslan-bajsarov2.jpg

[Sikeliot]

But we must also consider that these two people are probably very genetically similar even though she looks like a dark Brit and he looks Syrian or Lebanese. So that dark Italian man posted above is probably much more closely related to a blonde, blue eyed Sicilian than he would be to a Saudi or Egyptian even still.

http://www.solocapelli.com/anna_valle.jpghttp://www.cvs.k12.mi.us/dakota/images/staff/misuraca.jpg

[Thunor]

That dude is probably just tanned. What would you say about this gentleman?
He looks white to me, so he could pass as an European person (or rather, European-derived like myself). I have no idea where he's from, though, so I don't know if he can pass the cultural standards of "Europeanness".

For all I know, you might be posting a cherry-picked Caucasus Muslim to "trap" me. ;)

[StonyArabia]

He looks white to me, so he could pass as an European person (or rather, European-derived like myself). I have no idea where he's from, though, so I don't know if he can pass the cultural standards of "Europeanness".

For all I know, you might be posting a cherry-picked Caucasus Muslim to "trap" me. ;)

North Caucasians are very White, but they don't give two butts about it:) Since it's an artifical construction. As they are distinct from Europeans genetically, and are West Asians for the most part. It's not cherry picking since this how they look often. North Caucasians are not all Muslims either, many are pagans or combine both faiths.

[Padre Organtino]

He looks white to me, so he could pass as an European person (or rather, European-derived like myself). I have no idea where he's from, though, so I don't know if he can pass the cultural standards of "Europeanness".

For all I know, you might be posting a cherry-picked Caucasus Muslim to "trap" me. ;)

Well of course - he is Ruslan Baisarov - a Chechen businessman. However in case of Chechens or many other North-Caucasians one does not need to do a lot of cherry-picking - they are pretty fair on average. Yet they cluster away from Euros genetically while absolute majority of woggy Italians are close to their Aryan looking Northern brothers genetically.
Thing is there are various admixtures that may have disproportionate effect upon ones looks compared to how big part of genome they actually constitute. I think that's the case with Southern Italians.

[Thunor]

Thing is there are various admixtures that may have disproportionate effect upon ones looks compared to how big part of genome they actually constitute. I think that's the case with Southern Italians.
Probably true. That still doesn't change the fact that small amounts of admixture can have a disproportionate effect on what you look like, making it important to avoid racial mixing. My point still stands, that relatively pure European-derived people should avoid reproducing with the racially dubious ones (who are not phenotypically European anymore.)

[Thunor]

Cat got your tongue, Hess?

[beaver]

EUROPEAN MAN:
Irish? I would bet a couple of dollars.

[Thunor]

Irish? I would bet a couple of dollars.
Both are Italians.

It's a continuation of the former thread about Jews, where Hess claimed the old cigar-smoking wog was a "pure European".

[Pallantides]

I'm not sure what Nordicist racial standards are... many Norwegians and Swedes get 1-2% North/East Asian admixture on various genetic projects.

[beaver]

Both are Italians.

It's a continuation of the former thread about Jews, where Hess claimed the old cigar-smoking wog was a "pure European".

I was certain that he is Irish/British:rolleyes2:

[Thunor]

I'm not sure what Nordicist racial standards are... many Norwegians and Swedes get 1-2% North/East Asian admixture on various genetic projects.
I don't care about percentages and haplogroups, really. The average person doesn't, only anthropology obsessives. If you have a large enough percentage of non-white genes that it makes you look non-white, then you're not racially European.

[Nairi]

Both are Italians.

It's a continuation of the former thread about Jews, where Hess claimed the old cigar-smoking wog was a "pure European".

Are you saying he is not Italian because he is dark or you don't consider dark Italians Europeans?

[Pallantides]

The question is what defines being racially a European and who sets the standard for Europeaness?


Swedes and Greeks are very different from each other, but both are European peoples.
http://i.imgur.com/bqzOL.png
http://www.dcgreeks.com/images/missgreece.jpg

[Nairi]

The question is what defines being racially a European and who sets the standard for Europeaness?


Swedes and Greeks are very different from each other, but both are European peoples.
http://i.imgur.com/bqzOL.png
http://www.dcgreeks.com/images/missgreece.jpg

That's my point.
Both light and dark Italians genetically cluster, if they both are from Italy with known Italian ancestors and both are carriers of Italian heritage what makes one European,another one non European? Colours? And why then light colours are more prefferable than darker ones for defining Europeaness?
The same way if someone preffers tanned people they can claim light ones are no more European...

[Flintlocke]

Gimme a break Nordic superiority and bullshit. They were a bunch of retards who lived in huts and threw their crap with buckets from windows. Western Civilization was created in Wogland and spread through the sword of Roman legions. Some peoples like our barbarian northern kinsmen were capable of absorbing it and bringing themselves to great heights while other easterners couldn't. What did Northern Europe produce before the Baroque age? Not much really.

[Pallantides]

Yeah obviously the Germanic man in his natural state is as savage and primitive as the average negro bushman:p *jk*

[Trun]

Some people need a simple lesson in geography. How do you expect blonde blue-eyed people with pinkish skin tone to live in the 40 degrees summer heat of Sicily and South Greece? It's called natural adaption and I'm sure if all Northeners move in the Mediterranean after 2 generations they'll look exactly like the "wogs".

[Flintlocke]

Yeah obviously the Germanic man in his natural state is as savage and primitive as the average negro bushman:p *jk*

I said "Some peoples like our barbarian northern kinsmen were capable of absorbing it and bringing themselves to great heights while other easterners couldn't." Race IS western civilization, but to claim that the "White ethnic" peoples that created the thing are inferior to the "Teutonic" is ridiculous.

[Hevneren]

Gimme a break Nordic superiority and bullshit.

This has nothing to do with Nordic countries, and I frankly resent foreign Nordicists bringing us into this nonsense.


They were a bunch of retards

:rolleyes2:

I don't think retards can bring trade and commerce to all of Europe or create great poetry, excellent swords, the best ships of their day and beautiful woodcarvings.


who lived in huts and threw their crap with buckets from windows

Most of humanity lived like that for most of its history. Even you super-human Romans and Greeks were at one time living like that.


Western Civilization was created in Wogland and spread through the sword of Roman legions.

You can't spread civilisation by the sword. That's an oxymoron.


Some peoples like our barbarian northern kinsmen were capable of absorbing it and bringing themselves to great heights while other easterners couldn't.

You get to decide what was best for peoples who lived many centuries ago? Maybe their barbarian lifestyle worked for them? They certainly managed to bring Rome to its knees, conquer Spain, the British isles, and even establish colonies in Africa. Not bad for "inferior" barbarians. ;)


What did Northern Europe produce before the Baroque age? Not much really.

We produced Rome's demise. That, and the greatest ships the world had seen at that time, and the greatest revolution of trade and commerce in Europe at that time.

[rhiannon]

Gimme a break Nordic superiority and bullshit. They were a bunch of retards who lived in huts and threw their crap with buckets from windows. Western Civilization was created in Wogland and spread through the sword of Roman legions. Some peoples like our barbarian northern kinsmen were capable of absorbing it and bringing themselves to great heights while other easterners couldn't. What did Northern Europe produce before the Baroque age? Not much really.

Part of this is due to the fact Northern Euros were busily surviving in the frigid cold of the North.

As a result, Northern European peoples are some of the hardiest people on Earth:)

[Incal]

I'm not sure what Nordicist racial standards are... many Norwegians and Swedes get 1-2% North/East Asian admixture on various genetic projects.

Funnily, the most obsessed people I've seen on Internet about Nordicist supremacism are americans.

[Saruman]

We produced Rome's demise.

Rome produced Rome's demise.

As for the topic I can give another example.
http://213.215.155.40/media/2011/02/69144_63842_lapresse_r_3769655_medium.jpg

http://pieffeeffe.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/de_gregorio_sergio.jpg

This Italian is a textbook Berid variant, common in some regions especially Sardinia, it's a type where no real Near eastern influences can be applied so this man is definitely racially aboriginal European for many thousands of years.
That he doesn't fit into some idealized definitions stands, but still he's no Middle Easterner and he's no African.

[Hurrem sultana]

Rome produced Rome's demise.

As for the topic I can give another example.
http://213.215.155.40/media/2011/02/69144_63842_lapresse_r_3769655_medium.jpg

http://pieffeeffe.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/de_gregorio_sergio.jpg

This Italian is a textbook Berid variant, common in some regions especially Sardinia, it's a type where no real Near eastern influences can be applied so this man is definitely racially aboriginal European for many thousands of years.
That he doesn't fit into some idealized definitions stands, but still he's no Middle Easterner and he's no African.

He looks like a turkish actor

[Saruman]

He looks like a turkish actor

Which one please? Because I wouldn't expect this type to be so common in Turkey, although they do occur.

Same type as him but rather lighter variant is US supreme court justice Antonin Scalia.
http://cyberesq.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/antonin_scalia_scotus_photo_portrait_crop.jpg

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/images/scalia.jpg

[Flintlocke]

Part of this is due to the fact Northern Euros were busily surviving in the frigid cold of the North.

As a result, Northern European peoples are some of the hardiest people on Earth:)

As I said I don't mean to paint the northerners in a negative light, I just hate this northern vs southern european or western vs eatrern pointless babble and all that. It's pretty obvious we have been developing side by side for countless centuries while with nonwhites this is impossible since there is always conflict. So there is no basis in Nordicist theories.

And don't think southerners ain't hardy. The things that have been done down here have been pretty wild.

[Padre Organtino]

As I said I don't mean to paint the northerners in a negative light, I just hate this northern vs southern european or western vs eatrern pointless babble and all that. It's pretty obvious we have been developing side by side for countless centuries while with nonwhites this is impossible since there is always conflict. So there is no basis in Nordicist theories.

Europe was all about blood and battles for centuries. In fact many major European power often had better relationships with Turks than with each other.

[Pallantides]

In fact many major European power often had better relationships with Turks than with each other.

Like Sweden.

[Flintlocke]

You can't spread civilisation by the sword. That's an oxymoron.

You think? It was called Romanisation, attack an area with the purpose of annihilation, kill the men, enslave the women and children and leave it ruins. Then bring your people to colonize the area and they bring their culture with them. That's why France, Spain, Romania, and many other areas in Europe and beyond speak an Italian derived language.

[beaver]

Originally Posted by Padre Organtino

In fact many major European power often had better relationships with Turks than with each other.
yes, but I don't see something wrong here. Europe united with Turks not one time to put the Bear on the place :)

[Hevneren]

You think? It was called Romanisation, attack an area with the purpose of annihilation, kill the men, enslave the women and children and leave it ruins. Then bring your people to colonize the area and they bring their culture with them. That's why France, Spain, Romania, and many other areas in Europe and beyond speak an Italian derived language.

I see civilisation as something... civilised. Slaughtering people and stealing their land isn't civilised.

But yes, you can create copies of yourself through ethnic cleansing and genocide. Still not civilised.

[Hess]

You do sound like the typical anti-white multiculturalist, with your talk about "dubious nordicist standards" and that race doesn't matter at all.

Actually, I'm the last thing from that. In fact, it's the Nordicists and US Racial Inspectors (cough, cough) that are Anti-European because they insist on disowning and shunning their fellow Europeans based on silly, purely subjective standards.

I am proud of every single European because our natural diversity is a testament to our strength as a civilization.




EUROPEAN MAN:

http://www.openpolis.it/politician/picture?content_id=323


NON-EUROPEAN WOG:

http://www.krisvdv.net/pixelpost/images/20070916111234_sicilian_man_sigar.jpg

Understand?

No, I don't understand. "wog" is an absolutely meaningless word that means different things to different people.

I also fail to understand what gives you or any other one person the right to dictate who is European and who isn't using your own fabricated standards.


This guy in the second picture has Sicilian ancestors going hundreds of years back (probably), Speaks Italian, has lived in and practiced an Italian culture his whole life , but you would deny him all that because you, in your infinite wisdom, deemed him as "not white enough".

I resent that, sir.


and thanks for starting this thread. I feel like this is a topic that needs to be discussed more often.

[Thunor]

Actually, I'm the last thing from that. In fact, it's the Nordicists and US Racial Inspectors (cough, cough) that are Anti-European because they insist on disowning and shunning their fellow Europeans based on silly, purely subjective standards.
Is it "silly" to disown someone who is so racially different from me as the guy I posted?


I am proud of every single European because our natural diversity is a testament to our strength as a civilization.
Now that does sound like multiculturalist talk.

I fail to see how African blood (which that cigar-smoking wog probably had) is a great part of our civilization that should be celebrated.


I also fail to understand what gives you or any other one person the right to dictate who is European and who isn't using your own fabricated standards.
I'm using the same racial standards that Americans have always used. It's not my own fabricated ideas.


This guy in the second picture has Sicilian ancestors going hundreds of years back (probably), Speaks Italian, has lived in and practiced an Italian culture his whole life , but you would deny him all that because you, in your infinite wisdom, deemed him as "not white enough".

I don't deny him the culture he has, but neither do I deny that he's racially alien to me. An unmixed European does not look like that, period. I don't really care about culture, either, since anyone can be taught a culture and a language. This is not just "American ignorance" of Europe, since I'm sure that most North Europeans would have the same feelings as me about that guy on the photo.


I resent that, sir.
So do all the liberals and multiculturalists. :D You'd feel at home with them, no doubt.

[Hess]

Is it "silly" to disown someone who is so racially different from me as the guy I posted?

You're not using the word "race" right. There are only 5 races- Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid, Capoid, Australoid. You guys are both pred. Caucasoid.


Now that does sound like multiculturalist talk.

I am a Pan-European and I love every European country and the phenotype of every European person. You are confusing natural European diversity and Non-European diversity that's being shoved down our throats by politicians. Just for the record, I abhor the latter.


I fail to see how African blood (which that cigar-smoking wog probably had) is a great part of our civilization that should be celebrated.

It's likely that he has a low percentage of African blood (like many other Europeans), but I think what's giving him his look is his tan combined with W+SW Asian Admix (which is plentiful in South Italy as well as many other regions in Europe).

just for the record, minor African admix exists in quite a few European countries
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/African-admixture.gif


I'm using the same racial standards that Americans have always used. It's not my own fabricated ideas.

well, the racial standards of Americans are all good and fine but they have nothing to do with Europe. Fun fact: most Europeans don't even use the term "white".


An unmixed European does not look like that, period.

But see, a statement like that fails to take into account the many complexities of European genetics. I know that, as an American, you like to see the world as White/Non-White, Good/Bad, etc. Genetics just doesn't work like that, mate.

Look at these maps of West and Southwest Asian distribution
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/West-Asian-admixture.gif
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Southwest-Asian-admixture.gif

And this is not recent admixture either. That's right, Western Civilization was founded by Greeks who have over 45% West+Southwest Asian admixture.

Puts in a nail in the coffin of all this Nordic superiority crap if you ask me :D

But this is the way South Italy, Greece, Cyprus, Malta, and some other European countries are. Thus, it is no surprise that people like the cigar guy can be found in Europe. Whether we accept it or not, these countries and these people are a part of Europe

[Loki]

... I'm sure if all Northeners move in the Mediterranean after 2 generations they'll look exactly like the "wogs".

*slight* exaggeration here ... Dutch settlers came to hot Africa in 1652 ... after more than 10 generations in the African sun their descendants still look virtually indistinguishable from modern Europeans where their ancestries are from.

Colour adaptation takes a lot longer than that ...

[Meerkat.86]

Rome produced Rome's demise.

As for the topic I can give another example.
http://213.215.155.40/media/2011/02/69144_63842_lapresse_r_3769655_medium.jpg

http://pieffeeffe.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/de_gregorio_sergio.jpg

This Italian is a textbook Berid variant, common in some regions especially Sardinia, it's a type where no real Near eastern influences can be applied so this man is definitely racially aboriginal European for many thousands of years.
That he doesn't fit into some idealized definitions stands, but still he's no Middle Easterner and he's no African.

That's Sergio de Gregorio :D
one of the most disgraceful Italian politicians.
and he's not Sardinian....
(thanks to God)

[askra]

That's Sergio de Gregorio :D
one of the most disgraceful Italian politicians.
and he's not Sardinian....
(thanks to God)

in fact that mafioso politician is an obese alpinid with some south CM, not berid proper, and berids are not a prerogative of sardinia, and they are spread all over in south west europe.

[Lábaru]

http://213.215.155.40/media/2011/02/69144_63842_lapresse_r_3769655_medium.jpg

http://pieffeeffe.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/de_gregorio_sergio.jpg

looks like a Southern version of this northerner

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Ebvfq23vp_0/TdtmyuCLDpI/AAAAAAAAC-g/csTb8-m-Ams/s1600/Timo%2BSoini.jpg

[Saruman]

in fact that mafioso politician is an obese alpinid with some south CM, not berid proper, and berids are not a prerogative of sardinia, and they are spread all over in south west europe.

Agrippa lists him as an example of Berid. Berids are part alpinised and reduced south Cromagnids. And true, Berids are spread around, but obviously they are an important element in Sardinia (called Paleo-Sardinian by some authors).
I mentioned him because he is one variant that is relatively darker.

[Sikeliot]

Berid and Paleosardinian are the same thing?? I always thought they were two separate types.

That man posted above btw is not a true Berid. He is just Alpine with some Cromagnid.

[Saruman]

Berid and Paleosardinian are the same thing?? I always thought they were two separate types.

Paleo-Sardinian practically equals Berid, in typology of Biasutti.



That man posted above btw is not a true Berid. He is just Alpine with some Cromagnid.

I'd need a profile shot to be sure. Berids have lower CI but are in facial and physical traits more reduced than for ex. Westbaltids or Borrebies. He looks obese, that increases the impression of his alpinisation.

[Aivap]

De Gregorio is from Naples, and he's unclassifying, he's only an ugly fat man.

[Sikeliot]

I've only ever seen true Berid types from Portugal and Spain. Italian "Berids" are often just obese Alpines with significant Cromagnid. I don't believe the Berid type really exists there.

[askra]

Agrippa lists him as an example of Berid. Berids are part alpinised and reduced south Cromagnids. And true, Berids are spread around, but obviously they are an important element in Sardinia (called Paleo-Sardinian by some authors).
I mentioned him because he is one variant that is relatively darker.

paleosardinians have different aspect, and the term is very vague (invented in the 20's from a geographer called Biasutti), infact they are found also in other places, look for example Rafael Nadal, they have strong features, defined cheekbones, and sometimes slanted eyes, don't look as a version of an obese Denny De Vito, they look more like cavemen. :D

[Aivap]

This thread (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42455) got closed down (for other reasons) before I could respond to Hess' posts, so I am continuing the debate here.


So do I.


You do sound like the typical anti-white multiculturalist, with your talk about "dubious nordicist standards" and that race doesn't matter at all.

Here, I'll post two photos of two Italians and make it easier for you:

EUROPEAN MAN:

http://www.openpolis.it/politician/picture?content_id=323


NON-EUROPEAN WOG:

http://www.krisvdv.net/pixelpost/images/20070916111234_sicilian_man_sigar.jpg

Understand?



even the darkest Italian is more European than you, my dear redneck from America.

Anyway I'd like to know what's that person in the second picture? Is he Italian? Or is he probably a fake Italian born in the USA?

[Hess]

I've only ever seen true Berid types from Portugal and Spain. Italian "Berids" are often just obese Alpines with significant Cromagnid. I don't believe the Berid type really exists there.

isn't Sal from the Sopranos a good Berid?
http://images.wikia.com/sopranos/images/9/96/SalBonpensiero.jpg

[askra]

isn't Sal from the Sopranos a good Berid?
http://images.wikia.com/sopranos/images/9/96/SalBonpensiero.jpg

mixed with alpine

[Saruman]

I've only ever seen true Berid types from Portugal and Spain. Italian "Berids" are often just obese Alpines with significant Cromagnid. I don't believe the Berid type really exists there.

In areas of Sardinia it has been identified as an important element. Although yes I guess Iberian and Sardinian/Italian types differ, still in most basic aspects they share same traits. Reduced, alpinised but longer headed and relatively archaic southern Cromagnids.
I agree this Italian doesn't look Iberian, but then again nor do Skandonordids usually look Slavic, so different vibes might be part of that wider variation in this case as well.

Also I remember when I mentioned one Egyptian to you, you said he was Berid-like, he's rather Berberid which means Cromagnid proper with little or no alpinisation, so you might be considering some Iberian Palaeatlantids as Berids here.

[Saruman]

isn't Sal from the Sopranos a good Berid?


He's Berid with Mediterranid tendencies. Was confirmed by Agrippa too.

[Sikeliot]

Also I remember when I mentioned one Egyptian to you, you said he was Berid-like, he's rather Berberid which means Cromagnid proper with little or no alpinisation, so you might be considering some Iberian Palaeatlantids as Berids here.

That may be. I've seen British people with Berid-like traits so it may be some sort of Paleoatlantid type that comes close too.

[Aivap]

I doubt that this one could be really Sicilian

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1056/1390478641_f04e5020c9_o.jpg

I' ve found the original picture in flickr and it's written that he has been photographated in Catania, a town of Sicily.
But nowhere in Italy there are towns like the one in the background in this picture, that man look like a gypsy in a gyspy village. In sicily don't exist wooden villages.

[Aivap]

In areas of Sardinia it has been identified as an important element. Although yes I guess Iberian and Sardinian/Italian types differ, still in most basic aspects they share same traits. Reduced, alpinised but longer headed and relatively archaic southern Cromagnids.
I agree this Italian doesn't look Iberian, but then again nor do Skandonordids usually look Slavic, so different vibes might be part of that wider variation in this case as well.

Also I remember when I mentioned one Egyptian to you, you said he was Berid-like, he's rather Berberid which means Cromagnid proper with little or no alpinisation, so you might be considering some Iberian Palaeatlantids as Berids here.

from what I've seen Sardinian berids look more Iberian or they have usually a chinky look and less robust structure than Italian ones.

[Peyrol]

EUROPEAN MAN:

http://www.openpolis.it/politician/picture?content_id=323




Understand?

Aahahahaha this is Roberto Cota, governor of my region :laugh:


Anyway, i never seen a single "italian" man like the second picture in my entire life here.

[Dilberth]

Some people need a simple lesson in geography. How do you expect blonde blue-eyed people with pinkish skin tone to live in the 40 degrees summer heat of Sicily and South Greece? It's called natural adaption and I'm sure if all Northeners move in the Mediterranean after 2 generations they'll look exactly like the "wogs".

Yes,but It's not about climate type. It's about penetration of UV rays, which correlates with latitude.

[askra]

I doubt that this one could be really Sicilian

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1056/1390478641_f04e5020c9_o.jpg

I' ve found the original picture in flickr and it's written that he has been photographated in Catania, a town of Sicily.
But nowhere in Italy there are towns like the one in the background in this picture, that man look like a gypsy in a gyspy village. In sicily don't exist wooden villages.

the background looks a slum of a 3rd world country, obviously not Italy.

[Peyrol]

This is a sicilian girl, is semithe?

http://www.blogsicilia.eu/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Anna-Valle_shadowbox.jpg

also this is a moorish woman?

http://www.qnm.it/bellezze/modelle/miriam_leone/miriam_leone_1248896761.jpg

and this?

http://www.siciliatv.org/public/foto/Terrasi_Claudia_Miss_Sicilia.JPG

...and what about her features? Tipical semithe ugly face.

http://www.sizilien-rad.de/fotos/miss-sicilia/miss-italia_2011.1.jpg

..and this? Brr, i never would date this shocking and ugly raxemixage


http://www.sizilien-rad.de/fotos/miss-sicilia/miss-sicilia_2011-1.jpg

[Lábaru]

Anyway, i never seen a single "italian" man like the second picture in my entire life here.

I'm not sure, I'll wait to read the opinion of any American or gypsySlavic to see if that is true.

[Aivap]

Aahahahaha this is Roberto Cota, governor of my region :laugh:


Anyway, i never seen a single "italian" man like the second picture in my entire life here.


without doubts he's not Italian.
Look at the background, Does it look like Catania? Catania the second Sicilian city with 500 thousand inhabitants has districts made of wood?
No, nowhere in Italy exist towns like that bidonville we can see in the background of that picture.

[Sikeliot]

This is a sicilian girl, is semithe?

http://www.blogsicilia.eu/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Anna-Valle_shadowbox.jpg

also this is a moorish woman?

http://www.qnm.it/bellezze/modelle/miriam_leone/miriam_leone_1248896761.jpg

and this?

http://www.siciliatv.org/public/foto/Terrasi_Claudia_Miss_Sicilia.JPG

...and what about her features? Tipical semithe ugly face.

http://www.sizilien-rad.de/fotos/miss-sicilia/miss-italia_2011.1.jpg

..and this? Brr, i never would date this shocking and ugly raxemixage


http://www.sizilien-rad.de/fotos/miss-sicilia/miss-sicilia_2011-1.jpg


First two look Northwest European, last three look South/Southeastern European. None look Semitic.

[Peyrol]

I' ve found the original picture in flickr and it's written that he has been photographated in Catania, a town of Sicily.
But nowhere in Italy there are towns like the one in the background in this picture, that man look like a gypsy in a gyspy village. In sicily don't exist wooden villages.


Catania?

This is Catania, definitely not a conglomerate of wooden shacks. :laugh:



http://web.tiscalinet.it/andreacatania/catania/gallery/CT06.jpg

http://www.hotelevacanze.com/CMSData/images2009/alberghi%20catania.jpg

http://www.cgilct.it/site/images/stories/Foto/catania.jpg

http://www.nozio.it/img/Catania_Palazzi_Storici_e_Monumenti.jpg

http://www.nh-hotels.com/hotel_images/cities/catania.jpg

http://www.pianetazzurro.it/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Catania1.jpg


http://www.nebrodieolie.com/images/custom/taormina1.jpg

http://files2.caprionline.it/card/miramare_taormina/image/1_z.20111120103644.jpg

[Peyrol]

First two look Northwest European, last three look South/Southeastern European. None look Semitic.

Yes, and these girls are 100% sicilians.

[Sikeliot]

I'd actually argue the first two (at least based on the diaspora population) are not common, but I don't know enough to make that judgment.

[Peyrol]

I'd actually argue the first two (at least based on the diaspora population) are not common, but I don't know enough to make that judgment.

Miriam Leone's phenotype (red hair) isn't common in Sicily, but neithern so uncommon as hollywood/MTV anti italian propaganda retracts.

Anna Valle's phenotype (blue/azure eyes and black hairs) it's a phenotype quite diffused in all the peninsula.


Most of the self-declared "jersey sicilians" or "NYC sicilians" are, in reality, puertoricans or mexicans who try to pass as sicilians.

[Sikeliot]

Anna Valle's facial features though remind me of either a Northern/Southern European combination (like Angie Harmon type look) or just a dark Brit. In the US she'd easily pass as a typical Anglo American.

Miriam Leone would be guessed to be Irish, even though to me she doesn't look Northern European.

[Sikeliot]

Most of the self-declared "jersey sicilians" or "NYC sicilians" are, in reality, puertoricans or mexicans who try to pass as sicilians.

In the US most people I've known calling themselves Sicilian look like these (and these people are from there themselves)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/163610_485568588871_595573871_5749970_2464608_n.jp g

Not like Mexicans, Semites, or the first two of the women you posted.

[Peyrol]

In the US most people I've known calling themselves Sicilian look like these (and these people are from there themselves)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/163610_485568588871_595573871_5749970_2464608_n.jp g

Not like Mexicans, Semites, or the first two of the women you posted.

The guy on the right of the another one with the cap could be, others not.

Or, at least, judging from the 200,000 sicilians here in Torino-Piedmont and from my numerous travels to the island.

[Sikeliot]

The one on the far left is probably the most common based on what I have seen in the US, and I don't think that I am seeing Mexican and Puerto Rican wannabes (since I see no Amerindian or black in the people in question).

[Richard]

The fat italian guy is not a berid nor a paleosardinian,he's just a coarse med.http://www.tvoggisalerno.it/Upload/On.%20Francesco%20Caruso.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/rrl206.jpg

[Peyrol]

The one on the far left is probably the most common based on what I have seen in the US, and I don't think that I am seeing Mexican and Puerto Rican wannabes (since I see no Amerindian or black in the people in question).

Well, i dont understand how for you "italian-american = peninsular italian". They aren't and they don't have any cultural or modern connection to us.

No one in USA had only one ethnic background and i sincerely find difficult to believe that sicilian americans have 16/16 or 8/8 of pure sicilian blood.

[Sikeliot]

Well, i dont understand how for you "italian-american = peninsular italian". They aren't and they don't have any cultural or modern connection to us.

No one in USA had only one ethnic background and i sincerely find difficult to believe that sicilian americans have 16/16 or 8/8 of pure sicilian blood.

If their family came here recently (i.e. grandparents).

[Peyrol]

Following redneck theories, Helmut Kohl it's a swarthy semithe :laugh:

http://www2.caravella.eu/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/helmut-kohl.jpg

http://www.christeck.de/wp/wp-content/uploads/christeck.de/Bundesarchiv_B_145_Bild-F074398-0021_Bonn_Pressekonferenz_Bundestagswahlkampf_Kohl .jpg

[Pallantides]

"You look a little Arabish in the face!"
g3m-l5d5PJc

[Mordid]

"You look a little Arabish in the face!"
g3m-l5d5PJc
He look as Borreby as he come. ;D

[Peyrol]

If their family came here recently (i.e. grandparents).

There aren't a massive italian immigration in USA since 1939.
In 2011, less than 30,000 italians (mostly from the North) left the peninsula to the States, while in 1911 one million people (mostly from the south) left the country.


Actually, in NYC or NJ many self-declared "sicilians" are often of sicilian-puertorican/sicilian-mexican (NYC) or sicilian-irish (NJ) heritage.

[Hess]

I doubt that this one could be really Sicilian

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1056/1390478641_f04e5020c9_o.jpg

I' ve found the original picture in flickr and it's written that he has been photographated in Catania, a town of Sicily.
But nowhere in Italy there are towns like the one in the background in this picture, that man look like a gypsy in a gyspy village. In sicily don't exist wooden villages.


Aahahahaha this is Roberto Cota, governor of my region :laugh:


Anyway, i never seen a single "italian" man like the second picture in my entire life here.


the background looks a slum of a 3rd world country, obviously not Italy.

even if this specific guy is not Sicilian (which Is debatable), that is not the point. if we look at the graphs I posted a pages back, we will see that it is impossible for "exotic" individuals not to exist in a region that contains such high levels of W+SW Asian admix and minor African admix.

It's just science.

[Hess]

Actually, in NYC or NJ many self-declared "sicilians" are often of sicilian-puertorican/sicilian-mexican (NYC) or sicilian-irish (NJ) heritage.

that's an interesting observation, any sources?

[Sikeliot]

that's an interesting observation, any sources?

I'd find it hard to believe given that Puerto Ricans at least are often very proud of being Puerto Rican and I can't imagine they wouldn't admit they were.

[Trun]

To be honest, I have seen pictures of Sicilians that look so exotic that such faces can't be found anywhere else in Europe, even in Rhodes and Crete. Isn't there a Sicilian guy on Apricity that has written his phenotype to be Arabid?
But still, all Sicilians are Euros no matter how exotic they look simply because they are located in Europe...

[Richard]

Weird pics of weird lookin people smokin cigars are not good for classification.And his skin tone seems a bit altered,it's almost"glow in the dark orange".We need more infos and pics otherwise there's not much room for debate.

[Sikeliot]

To be honest, I have seen pictures of Sicilians that look so exotic that such faces can't be found anywhere else in Europe, even in Rhodes and Crete.

Exotic in what way? Like where would you place these people?

[Trun]

Exotic in what way? Like where would you place these people?

Syria, Lebanon, even Egypt. They are minority but they still exist...
I remember you have posted a picture with 4 Sicilians, 2 of them looked like Arabs...

[beaver]

[QUOTE]Following redneck theories, Helmut Kohl it's a swarthy semithe[QUOTE]
Good Bavarian (model) What people want from him, I cannot understand

[Peyrol]

that's an interesting observation, any sources?


I'd find it hard to believe given that Puerto Ricans at least are often very proud of being Puerto Rican and I can't imagine they wouldn't admit they were.

My permanence in Staten Island, from june to september of 2010. It's full of hispano-sicilian families.

It was also funny see pakistani/indians who managed pizzerias in NYC who trying to to pass themselves as "Italians" (fake "hand gestures", stupid big-golden crucifixes, white singlets, moustaches (moustaches here aren't used since 1930 circa), silvered glasses, etc), and the (very few) whites remained in NYC who thought they were fullblooded italians. :laugh:

Ah, don't mention to some ""famous italian dishes"" that here don't exists, like "pepperoni" (what is? Never heard here in Italy about this) or "spaghetti with meatball" (bleah, disgusting), or "sicilian roast beef" :laugh:

[Gaztelu]

This thread should prove to be an entertaining waste of time.

*Subscribed*

[Padre Organtino]

Don't tell me that any sane person can confuse Paki with Italian:eek:

[Richard]

This tone color is called "Terra di Siena" (Italy again,guess why:D)http://www.natuurinformatie.nl/sites/nnm.dossiers/contents/i003158/siena%20gebrand_200.jpg
I think the guy is a bit emphasized
http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1056/1390478641_f04e5020c9_o.jpg

[Pallantides]

Don't tell me that any sane person can confuse Paki with Italian:eek:

Not Paki, but some local yokel in a remote Northern Europan village might think some South Italians and Sicillians look "arabish in the face".:p

[Peyrol]

Don't tell me that any sane person can confuse Paki with Italian:eek:

Actually, most of the brainwashed americans.

MTV and Hollywood are very skilled to make hispanics and blacks as "cool and pure people", but also very skilled to portrait europeans as "bad and stupid" (like some MTv series, Jersey Shore for (presumed) sicilians and "Kebab for Breakfast" about (presumed) germans)


This tone color is called "Terra di Siena" (Italy again,guess why:D)http://www.natuurinformatie.nl/sites/nnm.dossiers/contents/i003158/siena%20gebrand_200.jpg
I think the guy is a bit emphasized
http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1056/1390478641_f04e5020c9_o.jpg

I never seen a pure southerner like this man.


If i'll see him on the street of Torino (or in other parts of Piedmont-Valle D'Aoste), i certainly would mistake him for a paki or a indian.

[beaver]

Don't tell me that any sane person can confuse Paki with Italian
Padre, you should be above, you are too smart for this bulshit

[Richard]

I never seen a pure southerner like this man.


If i'll see him on the street of Torino (or in other parts of Piedmont-Valle D'Aoste), i certainly would mistake him for a paki or a indian.
Sure and being fat,old and photoshopped doesnt help classification.

[Peyrol]

It seems that all the colonials (but also many slavs) have a strange, and sometimes pathological, obsession about Sicily, but i don't understand why.

Also discussions about northern Italy (EX. Lombardy, people from Friùl, Venexians, Maison du Savoie, etc) always ends with "Sicily, Sicily!"

I's a small mediterranean island, sparsely populated and even avoided by immigrants who infest the north of the peninsula...why this obsession? What's wrong with this mass of volcanic rock and lemon trees? LOL :p

[Padre Organtino]

Sicilians are not the woggiest Italians to start with.

[Amapola]

It seems that all the colonials (but also many slavs) have a strange, and sometimes pathological, obsession about Sicily, but i don't understand why.

Also discussions about northern Italy (EX. Lombardy, people from Friùl, Venexians, Maison du Savoie, etc) always ends with "Sicily, Sicily!"

I's a small mediterranean island, sparsely populated and even avoided by immigrants who infest the north of the peninsula...why this obsession? What's wrong with this mass of volcanic rock and lemon trees? LOL :p

Their obsession of the """"""700""""" centuries of Islam in the Iberian peninsula is even worse...

[Trun]

Sicilians are not the woggiest Italians to start with.

Seriously? Not only in Italy but also in Europe, only Cypriots and Armenians can rival them in this competition if we count them as European.

[hajduk]

This thread (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42455) got closed down (for other reasons) before I could respond to Hess' posts, so I am continuing the debate here.


So do I.


You do sound like the typical anti-white multiculturalist, with your talk about "dubious nordicist standards" and that race doesn't matter at all.

Here, I'll post two photos of two Italians and make it easier for you:

EUROPEAN MAN:

http://www.openpolis.it/politician/picture?content_id=323


NON-EUROPEAN WOG:

http://www.krisvdv.net/pixelpost/images/20070916111234_sicilian_man_sigar.jpg

Understand?

This man is not european, I don't believe he is sicilian. He looks hardcore gypsy. Often such examples are used to wogify southern nations.

[Peyrol]

Their obsession of the """"""700""""" centuries of Islam in the Iberian peninsula is even worse...

Remember than for the average redneck this man

http://xryshaygh.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/joseantonio1.jpg


and this :laugh:

http://www.iochatto.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/chavez.jpg

are the same

[Sikeliot]

Sicilians are not the woggiest Italians to start with.

Calabrese are on average more exotic.

[Peyrol]

Sicilians are not the woggiest Italians to start with.

Yeah, the famous caliphate of Piedmont-Savoie-Niçoise or the emirate of Venezia:coffee: :laugh:

[Sikeliot]

http://www.iochatto.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/chavez.jpg

That's a mongrelized South American who looks pred. Amerindian but with noticeable Black African traits. He looks less European than Amerindian and African.

[Padre Organtino]

Seriously? Not only in Italy but also in Europe, only Cypriots and Armenians can rival them in this competition if we count them as European.

Sicilians have some Norman ancestry and blue eyes there are quite frequent. The darkest people there are guys from Calabria and the like. Perhaps also South Sardinians but I'm not sure.
Anyway Sicilians are a minor part of Italy's population. Some Georgians can look Iranian and some even Arab but overall my people are clearly different from these two groups in looks. The same goes for Italians with the additions of the fact that they are Europena unlike us:p

[Richard]

Calabrese girlhttp://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/377996_2146774873312_1364507933_31777939_447830556 _n.jpg

[Peyrol]

Ok, only a question.

How many of you are gone to the Island one time in your life? Just a curiosity.


Because if all these pathetic discussions are based on hollywood, mtv or random pictures from internet, it would be very sad :laugh:

[Sikeliot]

Calabrese girlhttp://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/377996_2146774873312_1364507933_31777939_447830556 _n.jpg

I want to say she reminds me of some of the Georgians in the Georgian thread, but I'll leave that up to Padre Organtino to say.

[beaver]

Their obsession of the """"""700""""" centuries of Islam in the Iberian peninsula is even worse...
Padre is smart. People are divided generally for smart and stupid. Padre is smart. Fuck!

[hajduk]

Padre is smart. People are divided generally for smart and stupid. Padre is smart. Fuck!

Churka you high?

[Trun]

Sicilians have some Norman ancestry and blue eyes there are quite frequent. The darkest people there are guys from Calabria and the like. Perhaps also South Sardinians but I'm not sure.
Anyway Sicilians are a minor part of Italy's population. Some Georgians can look Iranian and some even Arab but overall my people are clearly different from these two groups in looks. The same goes for Italians with the additions of the fact that they are Europena unlike us:p

Blue eyes are not something unheard of everywhere in Europe.
And Sicilians overall are darker than Georgies but you are right that they have lower percentage of non-European looking people.

[Sikeliot]

To be fair though there are a lot of people there who look perfectly standard European (i.e. can fit almost anywhere), like this picture posted in the other thread

I'd even say a fair number of them look Northern European.

http://notizie.comuni-italiani.it/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Pallavolo-Trapani-rosa.jpg

[Trun]

Calabrese girlhttp://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/377996_2146774873312_1364507933_31777939_447830556 _n.jpg

She is not exotic for European, you can find many people like her in Italy and on the Balkans, though I admit she looks more Caucasian to me.


To be fair though there are a lot of people there who look perfectly standard European (i.e. can fit almost anywhere), like this picture posted in the other thread

I'd even say a fair number of them look Northern European.

http://notizie.comuni-italiani.it/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Pallavolo-Trapani-rosa.jpg

Are they Sicilian? They don't look typical from what I've seen, the folks on the pic can easily fit in Bulgaria.

[Padre Organtino]

Yes she'd fit well in Caucasus but I would say that females in my extended family look less exotic than her with the exception of one cousin aint (dunno how's that in English) that has strong Turanid traits (her parents and siblings look full Caucasoid).
Most of Wog in my family is demonstrated by men but even so really exotic looking one is my Dad that would blend well in Iran and Middle East in general.

[StonyArabia]

This Sicilian looks Arabic to me. He has very Semitic look. It's a fact that these types are rare elswhere, knowing the history of the island should not be strange. Anyway he is European at the end of the day, so it does not matter, as admixtures are found in minor outcomes all across.

http://s7.postimage.org/55amjbsob/images.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
jpeg image hosting (http://postimage.org/)

[Peyrol]

Padre is smart. People are divided generally for smart and stupid. Padre is smart. Fuck!

Well, it weren't spanish or iberian people who tried to destroy USA in many ways from 1945 to 1991, and invaded Georgia in 2008...now americans and georgians are your best friends..."Mysteries of History" :rolleyes: :laugh:

[Sikeliot]

Are they Sicilian? They don't look typical from what I've seen, the folks on the pic can easily fit in Bulgaria.

Yep, all from Trapani.

[Peyrol]

Ok, only a question.

How many of you are gone to the Island one time in your life? Just a curiosity.


Because if all these pathetic discussions are based on hollywood, mtv or random pictures from internet, it would be very sad :laugh:

Someone it's able to asnwer me? Thanks, just a curiosity.

[Sikeliot]

I've never been there but before my aunt's divorce, I had regular contact with her ex's large Sicilian family.

[Trun]

Most of Wog in my family is demonstrated by men but even so really exotic looking one is my Dad that would blend well in Iran and Middle East in general.

When will you make a classification thread about your dad?

By the way, I also have many relatives that can easily fit in Georgia/Armenia but one's relatives are not a good representation of a nation...

[Padre Organtino]

Well, it weren't spanish or iberian people who tried to destroy USA in many ways from 1945 to 1991, and invaded Georgia in 2008...now americans and georgians are your best friends..."Mysteries of History" :rolleyes: :laugh:

Jokes aside we get alog with Russians pretty well on a daily basis. More so than with most of our immediate racial relatives.

And beaver's not being agressive or biased towards Southern Euros.

[Prince Carlo]

All this fuss started by an americunt with purist obsessions.

[Sikeliot]

If we defined "pure European" as someone whose autosomal components are strictly Europe specific, there would be very few "pure" Europeans.

[Peyrol]

I've never been there but before my aunt's divorce, I had regular contact with her ex's large Sicilian family.

A single sicilian-american family isn't representative for 5 million of sicilian islanders, and btw the question wasn't referred to you.

Palermo hasn't the racial features of Messina, and Siracusa neither of both.
It is a variegated island full of different phenotypes.

But it seems that many colonials and some slavs (lol, slavs) prefer to talk having MTV or F. F. Coppola as souces.

[Padre Organtino]

When will you make a classification thread about your dad?

By the way, I also have many relatives that can easily fit in Georgia/Armenia but one's relatives are not a good representation of a nation...

Too lazy for that but here's a pic of him with my Mom. As I said he looks quite exotic for Georgian let alone Euro:

[Sikeliot]

A single sicilian-american family isn't representative for 5 million of sicilian islanders, and btw the question wasn't referred to you.

Palermo hasn't the racial features of Messina, and Siracusa neither of both.
It is a variegated island full of different phenotypes.

But it seems that many colonials and some slavs (lol, slavs) prefer to talk having MTV or F. F. Coppola as souces.

From what I've seen based on online searches and group pictures Messina/Syracuse/Catania and Agrigento just have a lot of Greek looking people and nothing overly exotic or rare.. the diverse phenotypes where you get Northern European types on one hand and very Semitic types on the other occur more in Palermo.

[Sikeliot]

Too lazy for that but here's a pic of him with my Mom. As I said he looks quite exotic for Georgian let alone Euro:

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/9490/30998914.jpg

He looks Armenian to me, not Iranian :)

Your mom looks more Balkan.

[Trun]

But it seems that many colonials and some slavs (lol, slavs) prefer to talk having MTV or F. F. Coppola as souces.

If you mean me, I just stated that I have seen a few Arabic looking Sicilians. But then I said they are exotic for Sicily.

Padre, your dad is not that exotic at all :lol: I expected to see Muamar Ghadafi :lol:

[Peyrol]

Jokes aside we get alog with Russians pretty well on a daily basis. More so than with most of our immediate racial relatives.

And beaver's not being agressive or biased towards Southern Euros.

I don't see any kind of costructive discussion if he call Fresa Salvaje, one of the most good and reasonable member here, "stupid", sincerely.

[Padre Organtino]

He looks Armenian to me, not Iranian :)

Your mom looks more Balkan.

More Azeri I guess. Armenians look different.

[Sikeliot]

I've seen a lot of Armenians that look like him, but you know them better than me.. you are their neighbor after all :)

[Richard]

Yes usually people keep sayin "mobsters on films are played by jewish actors so Italians must be jews!",well it doesn't work that way.:D

[StonyArabia]

From what I've seen based on online searches and group pictures Messina/Syracuse/Catania and Agrigento just have a lot of Greek looking people and nothing overly exotic or rare.. the diverse phenotypes where you get Northern European types on one hand and very Semitic types on the other occur more in Palermo.

Palermo was settled by Central Arabian tribes, and it was the capital of the Emirate in fact, so this does explain the occurrence of Arab/Semitic looking people. Most of the Moors in Sicily were of Arabian stock with few hint of Levantine and Berbers who just tagged along basically.

[Peyrol]

From what I've seen based on online searches and group pictures Messina/Syracuse/Catania and Agrigento just have a lot of Greek looking people and nothing overly exotic or rare.. the diverse phenotypes where you get Northern European types on one hand and very Semitic types on the other occur more in Palermo.

You mentioned some of the most hellenized areas of all mediterranean sea outside Greece.

[Padre Organtino]

I've seen a lot of Armenians that look like him, but you know them better than me.. you are their neighbor after all :)

Well, Armenians can look like that but I associate this look more with Azeris and Iranians. Anyway I don't have a problem with that cause neither me,nor my brother or my cousins (lots of them) look exotic or atypical for Georgians.

[Sikeliot]

You mentioned some of the most hellenized areas of all mediterranean sea outside Greece.

Yes. I am saying these people will just look like Greeks and are not the Semitic/Egyptian/Levantine looking ones people referred to before which are going to be found in the west.

[Sikeliot]

Well, Armenians can look like that but I associate this look more with Azeris and Iranians. Anyway I don't have a problem with that cause neither me,nor my brother or my cousins (lots of them) look exotic or atypical for Georgians.

What percentage of the Georgian population looks as exotic as your father or more so?

[Peyrol]

Palermo was settled by Central Arabian tribes, and it was the capital of the Emirate in fact, so this does explain the occurrence of Arab/Semitic looking people. Most of the Moors in Sicily were of Arabian stock with few hint of Levantine and Berbers who just tagged along basically.

Moors of Palermo were totally expelled by normans (only very few of them were converted), who resettled the area with northern italian, calabrian and norman colonists.

You can read this in all the history books here.


The few people of semithic heritage, as i told you in chatbox, have surnames like Cassarà (from quasr+allah), Fragalà, Zuccalà, etc (always ending in -alà).

[Padre Organtino]

What percentage of the Georgian population looks as exotic as your father or more so?

Dunno really. 3% percent at max I guess.

[Sikeliot]

The few people of semithic heritage, as i told you in chatbox, have surnames like Cassarà (from quasr+allah), Fragalà, Zuccalà, etc (always ending in -alà).

What about -ara names?

Also where would one find the ones ending in -ace and -aci? I've seen a few of those.

[Trun]

With the risk of being attacked by hajduk, I might say Padre's padre can pass as atypical looking Bulgarian.
He reminds me of that actor:
http://www.slava.bg/images/content_new/2008/06/19/3782/ton40.jpg

[Sikeliot]

With the risk of being attacked by hajduk, I might say Padre's padre can pass as atypical looking Bulgarian.
He reminds me of that actor:
http://www.slava.bg/images/content_new/2008/06/19/3782/ton40.jpg

He looks Turkish. Is he of complete Bulgarian ancestry (i.e. without anything recently Turkish)?

[hajduk]

I actually think Padre fits better than you, but just my 2 cents

[Trun]

He looks Turkish. Is he of complete Bulgarian ancestry (i.e. without anything recently Turkish)?

As far as I know, he is.
He looks more Azeri to me though one of my dad's friends look almost exactly like him.

[Peyrol]

What about -ara names?

Also where would one find the ones ending in -ace and -aci? I've seen a few of those.

Greeks, the equivalent of "-akis".

It's a shame that oversea greek heritage in Sicily (which population is 80% of greek descents) is underrated and the semithic one is extra-hyper-overrated.

[Padre Organtino]

He'd fit in Balkans as a guy with some Gypsy ancestry cause it's the only way you get exotic phenotypes. My Dad does not look Euro - plain and simple.

[Sikeliot]

Greeks, the equivalent of "-akis".

It's a shame that oversea greek heritage in Sicily (which population is 80% of greek descents) is underrated and the semithic one is extra-hyper-overrated.

It's the same with Portuguese.. we'll always (to many) be Europeanized Moors. :eek:

[Trun]

He'd fit in Balkans as a guy with some Gypsys ancestry cause it's the only way you get exotic phenotypes. My Dad does not look Euro - plain and simple.

Your dad doesn't look gypsy at all, no Bulgarian would mistake him for gypsy here. He might be recognized as Armenian by those who are experienced in physical anthropology, those who are not would guess him as Bulgarian.

[hajduk]

^^ I agree feurgypsy, if a racial bastard like you fits in Bulgaria that speaks bad for the country
Padre can pass in Balkan btw

[Peyrol]

It's the same with Portuguese.. we'll always (to many) be Europeanized Moors. :eek:

Yes unfortunately i know, it's a shame.


Anyway, i would see all these 100% aryan alpha male redneck american males what they would do if they'll meet the sicilian girls i posted in the first pages :laugh:








http://www.blogsicilia.eu/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Anna-Valle_shadowbox.jpg



http://www.qnm.it/bellezze/modelle/miriam_leone/miriam_leone_1248896761.jpg



http://www.siciliatv.org/public/foto/Terrasi_Claudia_Miss_Sicilia.JPG



http://www.sizilien-rad.de/fotos/miss-sicilia/miss-italia_2011.1.jpg




http://www.sizilien-rad.de/fotos/miss-sicilia/miss-sicilia_2011-1.jpg

[Sikeliot]

The last three look somewhat Greek.. it's the first two who would probably surprise them (especially Miriam Leone).

[StonyArabia]

It's the same with Portuguese.. we'll always (to many) be Europeanized Moors. :eek:

The Maltese are certainly though. I can understand 40% of their language, it only has been infused heavily with Italian. They also look Semitish.

[Peyrol]

The Maltese are certainly though. I can understand 40% of their language, it only has been infused heavily with Italian. They also look Semitish.

That's true.

Racially and culturally, Malta is about 40% old sicilian, 30% maghreb and 10% british.
Italian language, btw, it's understood and spoken about from 95% of population.

[Hess]

My permanence in Staten Island, from june to september of 2010. It's full of hispano-sicilian families.

It was also funny see pakistani/indians who managed pizzerias in NYC who trying to to pass themselves as "Italians" (fake "hand gestures", stupid big-golden crucifixes, white singlets, moustaches (moustaches here aren't used since 1930 circa), silvered glasses, etc), and the (very few) whites remained in NYC who thought they were fullblooded italians. :laugh:

Ah, don't mention to some ""famous italian dishes"" that here don't exists, like "pepperoni" (what is? Never heard here in Italy about this) or "spaghetti with meatball" (bleah, disgusting), or "sicilian roast beef" :laugh:

Agreed, this is something I noticed too.

Here in Boston, a lot of people who claim to be fully Italian have Irish blood.


It seems that all the colonials (but also many slavs) have a strange, and sometimes pathological, obsession about Sicily, but i don't understand why.

:eek:
I hope you're not talking about me?

[Trun]

The Maltese are certainly though. I can understand 40% of their language, it only has been infused heavily with Italian. They also look Semitish.

In my university there were two Maltese girls. One of them looked Lebanese, the other British.

[Peyrol]

The last three look somewhat Greek.. it's the first two who would probably surprise them (especially Miriam Leone).

Better pictures of Anna Valle with other hair style

http://magazine.snav.it/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/anna_valle.jpg

http://www.ansa.it/webimages/foto_large/2011/2/25/6b40d1f308d86bf7b82c327871a6f8b1.jpg

http://static.fanpage.it.s3.amazonaws.com/tvfanpage/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/anna_valle-1024x680.jpg

[Hess]

I'm not trying to be unfair to anyone, but I think that the average Sicilian girl is a bit darker than these women.


http://www.blogsicilia.eu/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Anna-Valle_shadowbox.jpg

http://www.qnm.it/bellezze/modelle/miriam_leone/miriam_leone_1248896761.jpg

http://www.siciliatv.org/public/foto/Terrasi_Claudia_Miss_Sicilia.JPG

http://www.sizilien-rad.de/fotos/miss-sicilia/miss-italia_2011.1.jpg

http://www.sizilien-rad.de/fotos/miss-sicilia/miss-sicilia_2011-1.jpg

[StonyArabia]

In my university there were two Maltese girls. One of them looked Lebanese, the other British.

The Maltese are basically Semitic and European mixed peoples. Many Maltese have Arabid strains from the Central Arabian tribes that settled, as well many of the expelled Moors went to Malta, so this is not strange. Some can look very Arabic to like the man I posted but more ,there is some minimal Berber ancestry to. What you describe is not strange but part of the history of the island itself. To me they are just Christianized Arabs who were Europeanized overtime. This might not set well with some but this how I see it, so does genetic studies lol.

[beaver]

I'm not trying to be unfair to anyone, but I think that the average Sicilian girl is a bit darker than these women.
Hess, I see two Russians/Ukrainians here - the last girl and the next to last girl.

[Hess]

Hess, I see two Russians here - the last girl and the next to last girl.

what about her? do you think she could pass?
http://www.qnm.it/bellezze/modelle/miriam_leone/miriam_leone_1248896761.jpg

[beaver]

what about her? do you think she could pass?
No, too Western for a Russian, Germany, I would say

[Peyrol]

I'm not trying to be unfair to anyone, but I think that the average Sicilian girl is a bit darker than these women.


http://www.blogsicilia.eu/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Anna-Valle_shadowbox.jpg

http://www.qnm.it/bellezze/modelle/miriam_leone/miriam_leone_1248896761.jpg

http://www.siciliatv.org/public/foto/Terrasi_Claudia_Miss_Sicilia.JPG

http://www.sizilien-rad.de/fotos/miss-sicilia/miss-italia_2011.1.jpg

http://www.sizilien-rad.de/fotos/miss-sicilia/miss-sicilia_2011-1.jpg

Not, except for the first two, who have more a centronordic italian looks (but they aren't a rarity in Sicilia), the lasts are quite common.

I know two sicilian girls from my university who looks like the last two.

[Padre Organtino]

People with dark hair in Russia=Ukranians, Jews, Tatars, Chechens, Georgians!!11

[Hess]

Not, except for the first two, who have more a centronordic italian looks (but they aren't a rarity in Sicilia), the lasts are quite common.

I know two sicilian girls from my university who looks like the last two.

I see.

when I think of Sicilians I think of the people in this thread-
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23849

[Ar-Man]

..on the streets of Ukraine ? :rolleyes: Yes in Ukraine lives many Russians, but you're not a Russian. And here you're just are troll, pretending to be Russian :rolleyes:

Well what's the big difference, without counting that they have less East Asian admixture :)

[Hess]

This actually wasn't a bad thread- too bad it had to be ruined by Russian nordicists, Albo trolls, and Mordid :rolleyes2:

[Sikeliot]

I see.

when I think of Sicilians I think of the people in this thread-
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23849

Like these?

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=21023&d=1329709970http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=21022&d=1329709970

[Sikeliot]

This actually wasn't a bad thread- too bad it had to be ruined by Russian nordicists, Albo trolls, and Mordid :rolleyes2:

I could go through and delete all the off-topic posts.

[Ar-Man]

People with dark hair in Russia=Ukranians, Jews, Tatars, Chechens, Georgians!!11

Armenians in Russia = Arctic Blond Ubermensch ! :D

[Padre Organtino]

Armenians in Russia = Arctic Blond Ubermensch ! :D

No, according to Nero you are half-Indid, half-Arabid:p

[Ar-Man]

No, according to Nero you are half-Indid, half-Arabid:p

I forgot that I was Half Mongol Half Nigerian Paki Khan :D

By the way, Russians can also have dark pigmentation, there's a huge background of Iranic Nomads assimilated in Russians, so it's total BS to say that dark haired Russians are Ukrainians ;)

[Peyrol]

About real sicilan men (and not gypsies like in the first pages)...look at Bernardo Provenzano (comparative pictures young/now), the Ultimate/Supreme Godfather of all the worldwide Cosa Nostra from 1980 circa to 2006...

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/04/15/JTBERNADO_wideweb__470x318,0.jpg


Or also Giuliano "il bandito", former leader of the sicilian independentist movement

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xrEo0ZHdqgY/TLyLEgS9dWI/AAAAAAAAAp4/-keTxESeSAc/s1600/salvatore+giuliano++%28liliumjoker%29.jpg


and also Ignazio La Russa (from Palermo), a member of the neofascist party "Alleanza Nazionale" and former Minister of Army and Defence during all the Berlusconi's governments (1994-2011)

http://www.agenziagrt.it/wp-content/contenuti/La-Russa-Ignazio-002.jpg


All these phenotypes are quite common in the island

[beaver]

This actually wasn't a bad thread- too bad it had to be ruined by Russian nordicists, Albo trolls, and Mordid
We finally should amuse ourself, I love Nero and Mordid.

[Gaztelu]

Blond Russians = Slavicized Finnics

[Sikeliot]

Off topic all was deleted and I ask that you guys stay on topic, or I will continue just deleting all off topic.

[Hess]

I could go through and delete all the off-topic posts.

that's not really up to me; you'd have to ask our Yankee friend Thunor :D

[Sikeliot]

About real sicilan men (and not gypsies like in the first pages)...look at Bernardo Provenzano (comparative pictures young/now), the Ultimate/Supreme Godfather of all the worldwide Cosa Nostra from 1980 circa to 2006...

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/04/15/JTBERNADO_wideweb__470x318,0.jpg


Or also Giuliano "il bandito", former leader of the sicilian independentist movement

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xrEo0ZHdqgY/TLyLEgS9dWI/AAAAAAAAAp4/-keTxESeSAc/s1600/salvatore+giuliano++%28liliumjoker%29.jpg


and also Ignazio La Russa (from Palermo), a member of the neofascist party "Alleanza Nazionale" and former Minister of Army and Defence during all the Berlusconi's governments (1994-2011)

http://www.agenziagrt.it/wp-content/contenuti/La-Russa-Ignazio-002.jpg


All these phenotypes are quite common in the island

If I didn't know what they were I'd guess them (in order) as a Pole, a Greek, and a Basque.

[Peyrol]

I see.

when I think of Sicilians I think of the people in this thread-
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23849

Hyper lamp suntanning/sunbathing are a quite sick vogue that, unfortunately, affects all the peninsula, transversal to regional ethnic background.
Usually southerners med and dinaromed tends to have a rapid and very visible tanning, due to their genetic.

Another example of "hyperlamptanned" southerner is Fabrizio Corona.

http://www.gossipmag.it/wp-content/uploads/sm_corona.jpg


"All dark southerner" it's a stereotype, like southern italian who thinks that all people from here (Piedmont-Lombardy-Venezia-Friùl) are all blonde/redhead blue eyed polenta eaters and pipe-players. :laugh:

[beaver]

Tribuno
Strong guys, I wouldnt like to intersect with some of them, only in T-34

[Peyrol]

If I didn't know what they were I'd guess them (in order) as a Pole, a Greek, and a Basque.

Young Provenzano and Giuliano il Bandito have a very stereotypical sicilian features, while yes, Ignazio La Russa has something atlantid.


Anyway, Provenzano was one of the most "shadow-influent" man in all the post war Europe, it's a a blessing that has been arrested

EDIT: note that the surname "Provenzano" in italian means "from southern France", i don't know if there is a relation, however.

[beaver]

Excellent thread - Mathia

[Panopticon]

This actually wasn't a bad thread- too bad it had to be ruined by Russian nordicists, Albo trolls, and Mordid :rolleyes2:

Instead of blaming it on a whole sub-community you could just have singled me out.

Any type of look that has developed for a long enough time in Europe is European by my standards.

[Richard]

True,sunbathing is underrated,during summertime i look like a Paki,in winter i'm pretty pale.Well if i lived in Sicily i'd go to the beach as often as i could.

[Sikeliot]

Young Provenzano and Giuliano il Bandito have a very stereotypical sicilian features, while yes, Ignazio La Russa has something atlantid.

That one guy really does look Baltic though or Polish.

[Peyrol]

That one guy really does look Baltic though or Polish.

Provenzano? Nowadays, when he was young (IMHO), if i would see an identical guy in my city, i'll immediately assume that would be a sicilian.

[Hess]

Any type of look that has developed for a long enough time in Europe is European by my standards.

That's how I feel as well

[Ar-Man]

That's how I feel as well

Do you include gypsies in there ?

[bimo]

NON-EUROPEAN WOG:

http://www.krisvdv.net/pixelpost/images/20070916111234_sicilian_man_sigar.jpg

Understand?

he is not sicilian , but a gipsy!
i'm tired too see posted gipsy , north africans and paki for south italian

[bimo]

And Sicilians overall are darker than Georgies but you are right that they have lower percentage of non-European looking people.

lol georgian lighter than sicilians , they are in the same level
you have already tried to darken the bulgarians than what they are , so now don't start even with italians! please!!

[Padre Organtino]

lol gerogian lighter than sicilians
you have already tried to darken the bulgarians than what they are , so now don't start even with italians! please!!

I'm not sure about Georgians in general but Western ones and North Caucasians are indeed quite fair in terms of pigmentation. They just have faicial features different from those of most Euros which is unsurprising.
South Euros are European - it's not blondness that makes them such.

[bimo]

I'm not sure about Georgians in general but Western ones and North Caucasians are indeed quite fair in terms of pigmentation. They just have faicial features different from those of most Euros which is unsurprising.
South Euros are European - it's not blondness that makes them such.

chechen for what i've seen are quite fair and georgian are in the same level with sicilian i don't know much for other north caucasian, but yes caucasian don't have southern euro facial feauture

[rashka]

Some people need a simple lesson in geography. How do you expect blonde blue-eyed people with pinkish skin tone to live in the 40 degrees summer heat of Sicily and South Greece? It's called natural adaption and I'm sure if all Northeners move in the Mediterranean after 2 generations they'll look exactly like the "wogs".
But facial features-muscle thickness, eye sockets, nose shapes, distance across cheeks, across jaws, lip shapes, mouth shapes, the way fat accumulates (and the way elasticity breaks down) in the face, is not determined by summer heat LOL.

[Prince Carlo]

Palermo was settled by Central Arabian tribes, and it was the capital of the Emirate in fact, so this does explain the occurrence of Arab/Semitic looking people. Most of the Moors in Sicily were of Arabian stock with few hint of Levantine and Berbers who just tagged along basically.

CW I am still waiting for evidence of specific arabic mtdna in Sicily.

[Hevneren]

It's the same with Portuguese.. we'll always (to many) be Europeanized Moors. :eek:

I gather this comes from racialist boards, because Scandinavians are often called "chinky" and "Lappish" due to a Saami presence. :D

[Richard]

Ok the gypsy smokin cigar was a hoax but i'll give another chance to you nordicists.
Here we go with this italian movie star
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090207132056/nonciclopedia/images/c/c8/Attila_Diego_Abatantuono.jpg

[Peyrol]

he is not sicilian , but a gipsy!
i'm tired too see posted gipsy , north africans and paki for south italian

In this forum, from what i see, people mistake maroc and lybic berber/gypsy/pakis/indians for southern italians and real southern italians for northern ones.

[bimo]

In this forum, from what i see, people mistake maroc and lybic berber/gypsy/pakis/indians for southern italians and real southern italians for northern ones.

we must thanks americans for that :grumpy:

[Trun]

In this forum, from what i see, people mistake maroc and lybic berber/gypsy/pakis/indians for southern italians and real southern italians for northern ones.

Also Northern Italians for Germans, Germans for Scandinavians and Scandinavians for Serbs :laugh:

[bimo]

Also Northern Italians for Germans, Germans for Scandinavians and Scandinavians for Serbs :laugh:

because in their mind northen italian are celto-germanic and southern italian are arab wogs , when the truth is that they overlap between them

[Peyrol]

Also Northern Italians for Germans, Germans for Scandinavians and Scandinavians for Serbs :laugh:


because in their mind northen italian are celto-germanic and southern italian are arab wogs , when the truth is thay they overlap between them

Ahahahaha both true.
Unfortunately.

[Incal]

^^ Americans learn history through Hollywood movies. Blame the lame casting work :D

[Peyrol]

^^ Americans learn history through Hollywood movies. Blame the lame casting work :D

YxKjga305cY

[Odoacer]

If i'll see him on the street of Torino (or in other parts of Piedmont-Valle D'Aoste), i certainly would mistake him for a paki or a indian.

Really? I've never seen a Paki or an Indian looking like him. :p Maybe he is some kind of gypsy, I don't know. But he's old, balding, overweight, & tanned, & the lighting in the photograph is dark. He could just as well be an odd-looking individual.

What's this stuff too about a wooden village? There are pieces of wood in the photo, but I can't see wooden buildings. On the right you can see corrugated metal doors or siding along with a green rollback canopy & on the left a metal fence. Looks like an alleyway in a city.

Have we any reason to believe that the Flemish photographer, Kris Van de Vijver, is lying in saying that this man is a Sicilian in Catania, other than some subjective impressions here that are to the contrary? There were even some Italians who commented on the photo on Flickr, & they raised no concerns about the honesty of the description.

Here's the original photo & comments: http://www.flickr.com/photos/krisvdv/1390478641/.

Here's a man who's half-Catanese & half-Piedmontese:

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/F+C+Parma+Training+Session+mm0LAgzG3k_l.jpg

Exotic-looking! A gypsy?!

Here's another old, smoking man from Catania:

http://www.pixedelic.com/themes/delight/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Catania-69a.jpg

Probably more typical! But I'm sure differing photographic techniques contribute to differing impressions, too. :wink

[Padre Organtino]

Here's a man who's half-Catanese & half-Piedmontese:

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/F+C+Parma+Training+Session+mm0LAgzG3k_l.jpg



This bloke looks very Georgian tbh.

[beaver]

This bloke looks very Georgian tbh.
more or less. He looks rather a South Italian, not strong Georgian.

[Odoacer]

I'm separating this part into a separate reply:

Thunor, I'm curious whether you think the man in this photo looks white?

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s362/kjsulli/Childhood/1984-10.jpg

[bimo]

Really? I've never seen a Paki or an Indian looking like him. :p Maybe he is some kind of gypsy, I don't know. But he's old, balding, overweight, & tanned, & the lighting in the photograph is dark. He could just as well be an odd-looking individual.

What's this stuff too about a wooden village? There are pieces of wood in the photo, but I can't see wooden buildings. On the right you can see corrugated metal doors or siding along with a green rollback canopy & on the left a metal fence. Looks like an alleyway in a city.

Have we any reason to believe that the Flemish photographer, Kris Van de Vijver, is lying in saying that this man is a Sicilian in Catania, other than some subjective impressions here that are to the contrary? There were even some Italians who commented on the photo on Flickr, & they raised no concerns about the honesty of the description.

Here's the original photo & comments: http://www.flickr.com/photos/krisvdv/1390478641/.

Here's a man who's half-Catanese & half-Piedmontese:

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/F+C+Parma+Training+Session+mm0LAgzG3k_l.jpg

Exotic-looking! A gypsy?!

Here's another old, smoking man from Catania:

http://www.pixedelic.com/themes/delight/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Catania-69a.jpg

Probably more typical! But I'm sure differing photographic techniques contribute to differing impressions, too. :wink

the old man in second image of the thread look very gipsy , i don't know he , but if he is sicilian he is very exotic and rare for sicily and probably have suspected ancestors , he don't look sicilian at all , just look at his nose shap and eyes shape , look gipsy or paki or indian nothing sicilian

the guy football players you posted can pass in sicily , but he don't look uber sicilian , look more typical cypriot or maltese or light levantine (not arab looking levantine)
the old man you posted can be fit even in central europe , may he is scruffy but look very south european , and can pass even in austria or south germany

[Odoacer]

the old man in second image of the thread look very gipsy , i don't know he , but if he is sicilian he is very exotic and rare for sicily and probably have suspected ancestors , he don't look sicilian at all , just look at his nose shap and eyes shape , look gipsy or paki or indian nothing sicilian

I agree his look is very unusual based on the Sicilians & other Italians I've seen. But he's certainly not a typical look either for Pakistanis or Indians. I can't comment much on gypsies because I've only seen gypsies in photos or videos, never in person. My point is that we can't dismiss that he's a Sicilian on the basis of this one peculiar photo. Who knows, perhaps in person & in his family photo albums he looks much more normal.


the guy football players you posted can pass in sicily , but he don't look uber sicilian , look more typical cypriot or maltese or light levantine (not arab looking levantine)
the old man you posted can be fit even in central europe , may he is scruffy but look very south european , and can pass even in austria or south germany

Agreed.

[bimo]

I agree his look is very unusual based on the Sicilians & other Italians I've seen. But he's certainly not a typical look either for Pakistanis or Indians. I can't comment much on gypsies because I've only seen gypsies in photos or videos, never in person. My point is that we can't dismiss that he's a Sicilian on the basis of this one peculiar photo. Who knows, perhaps in person & in his family photo albums he looks much more normal.



he look very gipsy , actually sicily have some local gipsy and many gipsy from eastern europe ,but the point is that some people should stop to believe in stereotype crated from america , where italian are olive skinned people with black and curly hair filled with gel and arab looks , yes we in italy have some people like they but they are not ethnic italian they are immigrants from north africa

[iraklii]

This bloke looks very Georgian tbh.

in my eyes he does not look like georgian he has very black hair if he had brown hair he looked maybe georgian

[Prince Carlo]

more or less. He looks rather a South Italian, not strong Georgian.

Georgians have 20-30% West Med admixture so you will find some overlapping .

[Padre Organtino]

in my eyes he does not look like georgian he has very black hair if he had brown hair he looked maybe georgian

Hair appears darker than it it in the photo. Plus have you been to Meskheti, Kakheti or some parts of Kartli? There are quite a few exotic looking people there.

[Peyrol]

Really? I've never seen a Paki or an Indian looking like him. :p Maybe he is some kind of gypsy, I don't know. But he's old, balding, overweight, & tanned, & the lighting in the photograph is dark. He could just as well be an odd-looking individual.

What's this stuff too about a wooden village? There are pieces of wood in the photo, but I can't see wooden buildings. On the right you can see corrugated metal doors or siding along with a green rollback canopy & on the left a metal fence. Looks like an alleyway in a city.



Yes, it's full of pakis or indians (kashmiri, punjabi, bengali) who looks in this way. Gypsies also are darker/brown.

And about the city and the photo:

1) i never seen a wooden neighborhood in Catania, except the gypsies camps.

2) never seen a single man with his look (as i'm repeating from page 5 of this topic circa). He looks gypsy and the fact that on the background there are shacks it's a confirmation.

[Prince Carlo]

in my eyes he does not look like georgian he has very black hair if he had brown hair he looked maybe georgian

Your current president Saakashvili has black hair.

http://fmabkhazia.com/uploads//saakashvili-420x0.jpg

[Peyrol]

Both Georgia and Sicilia (but Sicilia in a massive colonization) were inhabited by greeks, so it isn't surprising to see similarities.

[Padre Organtino]

Your current president Saakashvili has black hair.

http://fmabkhazia.com/uploads//saakashvili-420x0.jpg

Many Georgian patriots will tell that he's an Armenian or smth:D

[beaver]

Your current president Saakashvili has black hair.
dont talk about him - our common pozor (Russian + Georgian) with Georgians.

[Aivap]

Here's another old, smoking man from Catania:

http://www.pixedelic.com/themes/delight/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Catania-69a.jpg

Probably more typical! But I'm sure differing photographic techniques contribute to differing impressions, too. :wink

that man is Turkish and photographated in Turkey.
Someone have copied that picture and then uploaded it adding catania to the url.
Another prove that demonstrate how exist persons who try to pass for Italians people from other countries.

here the original picture, taken by the turkish photographer İbrahim Erdoğan Kişisel Blog'um

http://www.google.it/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZisBCo_1i0V8y70FlkCekD8UYn-vM4Rt0jMwmjsr1VrjWHa0jg6-A92rhVfiKoSWSpomCR-8MawDVhYlAoPykkFGwl3Y1dhRXEPGhmyQcqP6crKT8FrYzrZ2b Qyexcej7l3Cj0rocMGooKNU696ly50fuQlsZaemUSDOdxUx3SY xE2-0cHWqOY0LgI8w7vKj5OwlsbdAakHk5hw4c2d9uedjkTzrKK8SG fFBozkY86IUiQfYDCE-k1rhHx6qpgz09p5GvvSohHf0Enr5Pwaxkln8kuybmZAXcVTifG ffG9HrqiVmZrMR3mdt3EoyRqHLyZEe3vrjGdgofAp_1-F96Yt6uawo1iMgaWCmiZxXZ0css8D2LFPnifkd6_1_12G5sGf0 4HjN3M5C8AnWIV5AStH-KbYuXbU8Vb6XmZieNnmNnkMCFTwknvBg8vzUVv7GVdRGmm6ECP o8csqLiH41vlZTpx5QxEPWQGwQCn38XWGd4EyJ6MGBD0039Nip K1cUMyBZxFdotWVBWTlzGV8x_1gm-jiAt1rRgWysqZ41PptQpw4hPTR6Fa9Et1LvQbSdCf6jXTWpiGG 8u_1uoVfRxXb-5CcHlhvpT4FuwcQLZ9MFFBy8vaZZOPv4e66AKt6XjvdLa5kVkt PTRNq3Jm7gUrwyEnETJkQUjRHECLLbkj7VLIV7Qj-WPCtNsBQzikHT4YrYcT4_1wgFIu8Da9M-6ZfzZPydsodJGfNKXz4KYZ136szFZyzoKd6N3rVeEnQKQdOp6x Lpv_1-A6hswxQ_1stoYDWFwUImEEuV8lXaYo3QLjgrZXfJhUX_1htODE ZmI9r3G6vrCSMoAElD_1JGpO5bW9PGn5QfNXAlCjw1NGYhRFr4 EZ1x8Qe4SH_1sD2ChEResbA0GD2DL8LGyEvUjXFBc_1x_10Fnv HbPQyeL2Co-hzKo5dOjB20hBmvFWIcSQ3RjpuJMI5Aq2oQbnwDWmwBpMP1ZLH SHjCS4sWV9NYhR8QPctVWbdjcznrK_1S4lEWI64Xp7OXW5B2K5 toWKWcgnrR0JAS11t3cc25r6vc5CEAYLTeU1E5_1rjoGOyC0-gM0Rvr420eQa22v96SO13ypaHm4SCakGuVpjq7JUC9KHwtfFBO nyZe0xmeaCq_1D8oRlI06ZbHrsuZdgyHeKm6-2IF-DuP3MDeIe4PeRGCvHUpSuY_1BIQ3jzCbUb8Ch0D92NcuVl4RtC ZPVZTvdwO8MwtAkdPNrKNj7LHTwd6fEO3IUK9P2DI4Tpm2tMrt pVmUUcvdIpCsRid9Rn1MnCRSbu8Jt8D9GvcHH0MrokXy_1F0w0 LUG9hO1mHlEQakgUb3A&num=10&hl=it&safe=off&bih=713&biw=1280

[Peyrol]

that man is Turkish and photographated in Turkey.
Someone have copied that picture and then uploaded it adding catania to the url.
Another prove that demonstrate how exist persons who try to pass for Italians people from other countries.

here the original picture, taken by the turkish photographer İbrahim Erdoğan Kişisel Blog'um

http://www.google.it/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZisBCo_1i0V8y70FlkCekD8UYn-vM4Rt0jMwmjsr1VrjWHa0jg6-A92rhVfiKoSWSpomCR-8MawDVhYlAoPykkFGwl3Y1dhRXEPGhmyQcqP6crKT8FrYzrZ2b Qyexcej7l3Cj0rocMGooKNU696ly50fuQlsZaemUSDOdxUx3SY xE2-0cHWqOY0LgI8w7vKj5OwlsbdAakHk5hw4c2d9uedjkTzrKK8SG fFBozkY86IUiQfYDCE-k1rhHx6qpgz09p5GvvSohHf0Enr5Pwaxkln8kuybmZAXcVTifG ffG9HrqiVmZrMR3mdt3EoyRqHLyZEe3vrjGdgofAp_1-F96Yt6uawo1iMgaWCmiZxXZ0css8D2LFPnifkd6_1_12G5sGf0 4HjN3M5C8AnWIV5AStH-KbYuXbU8Vb6XmZieNnmNnkMCFTwknvBg8vzUVv7GVdRGmm6ECP o8csqLiH41vlZTpx5QxEPWQGwQCn38XWGd4EyJ6MGBD0039Nip K1cUMyBZxFdotWVBWTlzGV8x_1gm-jiAt1rRgWysqZ41PptQpw4hPTR6Fa9Et1LvQbSdCf6jXTWpiGG 8u_1uoVfRxXb-5CcHlhvpT4FuwcQLZ9MFFBy8vaZZOPv4e66AKt6XjvdLa5kVkt PTRNq3Jm7gUrwyEnETJkQUjRHECLLbkj7VLIV7Qj-WPCtNsBQzikHT4YrYcT4_1wgFIu8Da9M-6ZfzZPydsodJGfNKXz4KYZ136szFZyzoKd6N3rVeEnQKQdOp6x Lpv_1-A6hswxQ_1stoYDWFwUImEEuV8lXaYo3QLjgrZXfJhUX_1htODE ZmI9r3G6vrCSMoAElD_1JGpO5bW9PGn5QfNXAlCjw1NGYhRFr4 EZ1x8Qe4SH_1sD2ChEResbA0GD2DL8LGyEvUjXFBc_1x_10Fnv HbPQyeL2Co-hzKo5dOjB20hBmvFWIcSQ3RjpuJMI5Aq2oQbnwDWmwBpMP1ZLH SHjCS4sWV9NYhR8QPctVWbdjcznrK_1S4lEWI64Xp7OXW5B2K5 toWKWcgnrR0JAS11t3cc25r6vc5CEAYLTeU1E5_1rjoGOyC0-gM0Rvr420eQa22v96SO13ypaHm4SCakGuVpjq7JUC9KHwtfFBO nyZe0xmeaCq_1D8oRlI06ZbHrsuZdgyHeKm6-2IF-DuP3MDeIe4PeRGCvHUpSuY_1BIQ3jzCbUb8Ch0D92NcuVl4RtC ZPVZTvdwO8MwtAkdPNrKNj7LHTwd6fEO3IUK9P2DI4Tpm2tMrt pVmUUcvdIpCsRid9Rn1MnCRSbu8Jt8D9GvcHH0MrokXy_1F0w0 LUG9hO1mHlEQakgUb3A&num=10&hl=it&safe=off&bih=713&biw=1280


If you look in the link there is this written

ผลิตสื่อมัลติมีเดียเพื่อการนำเสนอครบวงจร


What kind of language is this? Armenian? :confused:

EDIT: it's thai :eek:

[Richard]

For the people who like fat old italian men smokin cigars:Dhttp://www.undo.net/Pressrelease/foto/1255514800b.jpg

[Odoacer]

Yes, it's full of pakis or indians (kashmiri, punjabi, bengali) who looks in this way. Gypsies also are darker/brown.

And about the city and the photo:

1) i never seen a wooden neighborhood in Catania, except the gypsies camps.

2) never seen a single man with his look (as i'm repeating from page 5 of this topic circa). He looks gypsy and the fact that on the background there are shacks it's a confirmation.

It's not a "wooden neighborhood." I don't seen any wooden buildings in the photo, nor any shacks. It's an alleyway in a city. Whether he looks gypsy I don't comment, except he doesn't look like Inquiring Mind's relatives. :P Are there many gypsies in Catania? The photo was taken by a Fleming who was travelling in Sicily. Unless you think he's lying, but for what reason?


that man is Turkish and photographated in Turkey.
Someone have copied that picture and then uploaded it adding catania to the url.
Another prove that demonstrate how exist persons who try to pass for Italians people from other countries.

here the original picture, taken by the turkish photographer İbrahim Erdoğan Kişisel Blog'um

http://www.google.it/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZisBCo_1i0V8y70FlkCekD8UYn-vM4Rt0jMwmjsr1VrjWHa0jg6-A92rhVfiKoSWSpomCR-8MawDVhYlAoPykkFGwl3Y1dhRXEPGhmyQcqP6crKT8FrYzrZ2b Qyexcej7l3Cj0rocMGooKNU696ly50fuQlsZaemUSDOdxUx3SY xE2-0cHWqOY0LgI8w7vKj5OwlsbdAakHk5hw4c2d9uedjkTzrKK8SG fFBozkY86IUiQfYDCE-k1rhHx6qpgz09p5GvvSohHf0Enr5Pwaxkln8kuybmZAXcVTifG ffG9HrqiVmZrMR3mdt3EoyRqHLyZEe3vrjGdgofAp_1-F96Yt6uawo1iMgaWCmiZxXZ0css8D2LFPnifkd6_1_12G5sGf0 4HjN3M5C8AnWIV5AStH-KbYuXbU8Vb6XmZieNnmNnkMCFTwknvBg8vzUVv7GVdRGmm6ECP o8csqLiH41vlZTpx5QxEPWQGwQCn38XWGd4EyJ6MGBD0039Nip K1cUMyBZxFdotWVBWTlzGV8x_1gm-jiAt1rRgWysqZ41PptQpw4hPTR6Fa9Et1LvQbSdCf6jXTWpiGG 8u_1uoVfRxXb-5CcHlhvpT4FuwcQLZ9MFFBy8vaZZOPv4e66AKt6XjvdLa5kVkt PTRNq3Jm7gUrwyEnETJkQUjRHECLLbkj7VLIV7Qj-WPCtNsBQzikHT4YrYcT4_1wgFIu8Da9M-6ZfzZPydsodJGfNKXz4KYZ136szFZyzoKd6N3rVeEnQKQdOp6x Lpv_1-A6hswxQ_1stoYDWFwUImEEuV8lXaYo3QLjgrZXfJhUX_1htODE ZmI9r3G6vrCSMoAElD_1JGpO5bW9PGn5QfNXAlCjw1NGYhRFr4 EZ1x8Qe4SH_1sD2ChEResbA0GD2DL8LGyEvUjXFBc_1x_10Fnv HbPQyeL2Co-hzKo5dOjB20hBmvFWIcSQ3RjpuJMI5Aq2oQbnwDWmwBpMP1ZLH SHjCS4sWV9NYhR8QPctVWbdjcznrK_1S4lEWI64Xp7OXW5B2K5 toWKWcgnrR0JAS11t3cc25r6vc5CEAYLTeU1E5_1rjoGOyC0-gM0Rvr420eQa22v96SO13ypaHm4SCakGuVpjq7JUC9KHwtfFBO nyZe0xmeaCq_1D8oRlI06ZbHrsuZdgyHeKm6-2IF-DuP3MDeIe4PeRGCvHUpSuY_1BIQ3jzCbUb8Ch0D92NcuVl4RtC ZPVZTvdwO8MwtAkdPNrKNj7LHTwd6fEO3IUK9P2DI4Tpm2tMrt pVmUUcvdIpCsRid9Rn1MnCRSbu8Jt8D9GvcHH0MrokXy_1F0w0 LUG9hO1mHlEQakgUb3A&num=10&hl=it&safe=off&bih=713&biw=1280

The only two existing copies online are both labelled "Catania (http://www.google.it/search?hl=it&safe=active&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSYxphCxCo1NgEGgYIFwg9CEIMCxCwjKcIGjYKN AgBEg7HBMkEygTxBMUE8ATEBBogoKo1ZB7BZlaUfxa3RZGlqJm YeI3q8niM7Xeen4V1W5gMCxCOrv4IGgoKCAgBEgSlFbrGDA&sa=X&ei=jQdNT9DTLoKJtwfhv5xO&ved=0CCkQwg4&biw=1638&bih=898)." Maybe a Turk took the photo, but it seems even on his (now defunct) website it was labelled "Catania":


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ibrahimerdogan.org/photos/Catania-69a.jpg&imgrefurl=http://ibrahimerdogan.org/gallery/photos&h=899&w=1280&sz=280&tbnid=tIP-wEJvNGc9SM&tbnh=188&tbnw=268&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dAhNT_GoJoWWtweVlPQi&ved=0CE8Q8g04Cg&usg=__5x0tZNsOWFGi879JKvqXukI_yZI=

[Hess]

So darker Sicilians are all Gypsies/Turks/Pakis trying to pass as Italians?

Then how do you explain the people in this thread? :confused:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23849

How do you explain these maps? :confused:
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt279/german24/West-Asian-admixture.gif
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt279/german24/Southwest-Asian-admixture.gif

Your current president Saakashvili has black hair.

http://fmabkhazia.com/uploads//saakashvili-420x0.jpg

Well, the term "Black" when dealing with hair is a tricky one. Most people who look like they have "black" hair actually have hair that's a very dark shade of brown.

True, Jet Black hair exists in very few caucasoids.

[Supreme American]

North Caucasians are very White, but they don't give two butts about it:) Since it's an artifical construction. As they are distinct from Europeans genetically, and are West Asians for the most part. It's not cherry picking since this how they look often. North Caucasians are not all Muslims either, many are pagans or combine both faiths.

White is not an artificial construction. Whites have had a presence on the Asian continent for many thousands of years.

[Aivap]

White is not an artificial construction. Whites have had a presence on the Asian continent for many thousands of years.

White is not an artificial construction as Europeans are not an artificial contruction. You Americans are not Europeans.

[Black Sun Dimension]

South European wogs are way hotter than scandinavian women.

[Aivap]

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ibrahimerdogan.org/photos/Catania-69a.jpg&imgrefurl=http://ibrahimerdogan.org/gallery/photos&h=899&w=1280&sz=280&tbnid=tIP-wEJvNGc9SM&tbnh=188&tbnw=268&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dAhNT_GoJoWWtweVlPQi&ved=0CE8Q8g04Cg&usg=__5x0tZNsOWFGi879JKvqXukI_yZI=

You have chosed the two pictures with the modified label.
The original one is different.

Anyway that man could be an atypical southern Italian. Although i repeat that is Turkish.

[beaver]

Well, the term "Black" when dealing with hair is a tricky one. Most people who look like they have "black" hair actually have hair that's a very dark shade of brown.
Georgians and Armenians are wery welcome in Russia, Saakashwilli - is a clinical idiot, more stupid than even Putin

[Hess]

Georgians and Armenians are wery welcome in Russia, Saakashwilli - is a clinical idiot, more stupid than even Putin

:D
http://gapcache.lingospot.com/2011/11/25/Georgia_Reagan_Statue_MOSB131.large.jpg

[Peyrol]

So darker Sicilians are all Gypsies/Turks/Pakis trying to pass as Italians?

Then how do you explain the people in this thread? :confused:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23849

How do you explain these maps? :confused:
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt279/german24/West-Asian-admixture.gif
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt279/german24/Southwest-Asian-admixture.gif


Well, the term "Black" when dealing with hair is a tricky one. Most people who look like they have "black" hair actually have hair that's a very dark shade of brown.

True, Jet Black hair exists in very few caucasoids.


Again this "south west asian"....never heard about neolitic admisture? Or about prehistoric populating of Europe?

What do you think first europeans were? From Arya blondeblueyeisland? Or from Atlantis?

[Odoacer]

You have chosed the two pictures with the modified label.
The original one is different.

Anyway that man could be an atypical southern Italian. Although i repeat that is Turkish.

The original URL was "http://www.ibrahimerdogan.org/photos/Catania-69a.jpg" as I already pointed out. It's not a "modified" label. Anyway, he doesn't look especially Turkish & even if he is, he could pass in many parts of Europe. Even Bimo said this:


the old man you posted can be fit even in central europe , may he is scruffy but look very south european , and can pass even in austria or south germany

[Prince Carlo]

How do you explain these maps? :confused:


Hess these maps represent ancient mesolitich-neolitich admixture. 20.000/10.000 years of evolution separates us from those levantine guys. That's enough time to say that now we are a completely different race from them.

PS that thread is full of cherrypicked photos of tanned and atypical Sicilians. You can find some really exotic guys in that island, but then you can find really exotic mongoloid looking guys in Eastern Europe too. Here you can find videos of thousands of Sicilians protesting in Palermo.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=736714&postcount=955

[Peyrol]

South European wogs are way hotter than scandinavian women.

What a kurd is doing on a EUROPEAN presevationist forum?

You're iranid, so return to your rocks scorched by the sun called "Kurdistan" (that will never exist as independent state) and let Europe to europeans.

[Peyrol]

The original URL was "http://www.ibrahimerdogan.org/photos/Catania-69a.jpg" as I already pointed out. It's not a "modified" label. Anyway, he doesn't look especially Turkish & even if he is, he could pass in many parts of Europe. Even Bimo said this:

Odoacer, you're a smart person, trust me.

This man it's a gypsy or other kind of immigrant.

[Odoacer]

Odoacer, you're a smart person, trust me.

This man it's a gypsy or other kind of immigrant.

This man?

http://www.pixedelic.com/themes/delight/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Catania-69a.jpg

If you mean the guy in the red sweater standing in an alley, then I have nothing more to say. The Fleming photographer in that case must have been very badly mistaken.

[Peyrol]

This man?

http://www.pixedelic.com/themes/delight/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Catania-69a.jpg

If you mean the guy in the red sweater standing in an alley, then I have nothing more to say. The Fleming photographer in that case must have been very badly mistaken.

No, i'm referring to the second picture of the first message in this thread.

[beaver]

From Arya blondebueyeisland
No way, read the work by Eiberg

[Sikeliot]

PS that thread is full of cherrypicked photos of tanned and atypical Sicilians.

Not true, considering I often have to seek out lighter individuals to balance out the majority of the photos I find in order to show a wide spectrum and capture all of the diversity.

[Richard]

This man?

http://www.pixedelic.com/themes/delight/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Catania-69a.jpg


I'd say alpinoid but he's old,terrible pic and he looks like a bummer.:confused:
Why do you consider him exotic?

[Odoacer]

I'd say alpinoid but he's old,terrible pic and he looks like a bummer.:confused:
Why do you consider him exotic?

I don't think he looks exotic. I originally brought him up as an example of a Catanian.

[Richard]

I don't think he looks exotic. I originally brought him up as an example of a Catanian.
In that pic he looks very similar to Piero Mazzarella who is a nothern italian actor with Sicilian ancestry(well puffy alpinoid are common all over italy) but the pic is really bad for classification.And again old people are always a guess.

[Prince Carlo]

Not true, considering I often have to seek out lighter individuals to balance out the majority of the photos I find in order to show a wide spectrum and capture all of the diversity.

That's true. But one should post only group photos IMHO.

[Sikeliot]

He's old and wrinkly. Any European out in the sun with that head shape would look like that if he were that age and wrinkly tbh.

[Sikeliot]

That's true. But one should post only group photos IMHO.

Then the thread would have far fewer photos.. although I have found groups of people at parties and clubs and include them too.

I am just saying I should not be accused of cherrypicking them darker.. considering any time I find a photo like this I will include it;

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/424794_3262659895767_1545323717_32924572_875285437 _n.jpg

at the expense of darker people who make up the majority of those I find.

[beaver]

He's old and wrinkly. Any European out in the sun with that head shape would look like that if he were that age and wrinkly tbh.
Clementina, I would recommend also to you to read Eiberg

[Richard]

Puffy italian alpinoids from North to South
ZZ1DxFbvJfw

[Richard]

Look we're Arabs!:DToo bad we have no oil..Dont you think it's a bit weird?Havin odd lookin people among tv and movie star.Everyday people are different.http://www.milannight.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/andy-luotto.jpg

[Richard]

Dont waste your time lookin for odd lookin italians who always turn out to be Gypsies or Asians or Mexicans,just ask me,Richard.I will bring you the weirdest lookin guys,Italian and fully European of course.:D
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/49/AldoFabrizi_.jpg/300px-AldoFabrizi_.jpg

[Sikeliot]

Dont waste your time lookin for odd lookin italians who always turn out to be Gypsies or Asians or Mexicans,just ask me,Richard.I will bring you the weirdest lookin guys,Italian and fully European of course.:D
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/49/AldoFabrizi_.jpg/300px-AldoFabrizi_.jpg


Is that photoshopped? I am asking because of the triple chin!

[Richard]

Is that photoshopped? I am asking because of the triple chin!

No Aldo Fabrizi was obese,he played in blockbuster movies in the 50's/60's,look:

Young
http://www.cmdc.it/Public/Image/Mostre/Omaggio%20a%20Fabrizi/AldoFabrizi.jpg
http://giamba2016.ilcannocchiale.it/mediamanager/sys.user/165926/aldo%20fabrizi.jpg
http://www.tuttiprimi.it/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/fabrizi.jpg

[RitinNair]

The "woggish" Sicilians and South Italians are in fact of Greek ancestry, not Semitic/Arabic.

[Sikeliot]

The "woggish" Sicilians and South Italians are in fact of Greek ancestry, not Semitic/Arabic.

I don't think so, considering that the most "woggish" cases would even stand out amongst the Greeks I know.

[Prince Carlo]

I don't think so, considering that the most "woggish" cases would even stand out amongst the Greeks I know.

I don't think so. Some Greek islanders can be really woggish too.

[Sikeliot]

I don't think so. Some Greek islanders can be really woggish too.

But mainland Greeks (minus the Peloponnese which is where most of the Greeks settling in Sicily and Calabria came from) are not.

[Prince Carlo]

But mainland Greeks (minus the Peloponnese which is where most of the Greeks settling in Sicily and Calabria came from) are not.

Indeed. Most Greek colonists in Italy were from the islands and the Peloponnese.