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Joe McCarthy
03-01-2012, 01:36 AM
I'm certainly no expert on these sorts of questions, but given that Jobbik leader Gabor Vona has declared his party's intention to support a pan-Turkish, or Turanic alliance (http://www.jobbik.com/jobbik_news/europe/3198.html), holding that Hungary is a Turkish nation, should the invading Magyars of over a thousand years ago a/o the modern Hungarians today, be considered a European, or white people in an ethnic-racial sense?

Mercury
03-01-2012, 01:44 AM
Racially they are closely related to their fellow Europeans. The Magyars have been mixing with indigenous Europeans since they arrive on the continent, and have a history and culture closely linked with their neighboring countries. I don't see how they can be considered anything but European.


Politics and Nationalism don't change reality. No matter how much Hungarians wish for that to be the case. I guess because it's uncool to be European or of European descent in this day of age, Hungarians are looking for some exotic, pathetic identity to be attached with.

Pallantides
03-01-2012, 01:50 AM
Genetically Hungarians are not significantly different from their neighbours.
The often cluster close to Germans:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17686&stc=1&d=1322751859

HU = Hungarians
DE = Germans

Joe McCarthy
03-01-2012, 02:00 AM
Racially they are closely related to their fellow Europeans. The Magyars have been mixing with indigenous Europeans since they arrive on the continent, and have a history and culture closely linked with their neighboring countries. I don't see how they can be considered anything but European.


Politics and Nationalism don't change reality. No matter how much Hungarians wish for that to be the case. I guess because it's uncool to be European or of European descent in this day of age, Hungarians are looking for some exotic, pathetic identity to be attached with.

Okay, but were the Magyars themselves white-European, and given that Hungarians today identify with them rather than the Slavic-Germanic peoples they were submerged into, how should we view that?

Hess
03-01-2012, 02:08 AM
race and genetics aside, I am horribly disappointed by Jobbik's recent course of action and I hope they turn back to Europe once again instead of going down this dangerous path.

Hess
03-01-2012, 02:09 AM
and BTW, is it just me or does Vona himself show some Turanid? :laugh:
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/international/images/48_1417.jpg

RagnarLodbrok666
03-01-2012, 02:19 AM
race and genetics aside, I am horribly disappointed by Jobbik's recent course of action and I hope they turn back to Europe once again instead of going down this dangerous path.

Well to me national alliances are all about strategy. If an alliance with Iran or Turkey would help Hungary in someway their national interests...well? I guess they wouldn't have a choice would they. Genetically Hungarians have more in common with Slavs than Turks, but there is some cultural and historical connections between the Turks and the Magyars. But not a genetic connection between the Turks and Magyars.

Joe McCarthy
03-01-2012, 02:22 AM
Well to me national alliances are all about strategy. If an alliance with Iran or Turkey would help Hungary in someway their national interests...well? I guess they wouldn't have a choice would they. Genetically Hungarians have more in common with Slavs than Turks, but there is some cultural and historical connections between the Turks and the Magyars. But not a genetic connection between the Turks and Magyars.

A purely political alliance is one thing, but what Vona is saying is another thing altogether. Hitler made too many overtures to Japan for my liking, but he never went so far as to claim Germans and Japanese were related ethnically. Vona has made that leap into the steppe.

Hess
03-01-2012, 02:25 AM
A purely political alliance is one thing, but what Vona is saying is another thing altogether. Hitler made too many overtures to Japan for my liking, but he never went so far as to claim Germans and Japanese were related ethnically. Vona has made that leap into the steppe.

it's one thing to seek an alliance of convenience in tough times, it's a whole other thing to declare yourself the "Grandson of Atilla" :rolleyes2:

Joe McCarthy
03-01-2012, 02:30 AM
it's one thing to seek an alliance of convenience in tough times, it's a whole other thing to declare yourself the "Grandson of Atilla" :rolleyes2:

Yes, but in fairness to Vona, this Attila the Hun stuff has been big in Hungary forever, and peaked especially high during the fascist era. Ironic, that.

Joe McCarthy
03-01-2012, 02:33 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns#After_Attila


The Magyars (Hungarians) in particular lay claim to Hunnic heritage. Although Magyar tribes only began to settle in the geographical area of present-day Hungary in the very end of the 9th century, some 450 years after the dissolution of the Hunnic tribal confederation, Hungarian prehistory includes Magyar origin legends, which may have preserved some elements of historical truth. The Huns who invaded Europe represented a loose coalition of various peoples, so some Magyars might have been part of it, or may later have joined descendants of Attila's men, who still claimed the name of Huns. The national anthem of Hungary describes the Hungarians as "blood of Bendegúz'" (the medieval and modern Hungarian version of Mundzuk, Attila's father). Attila's brother Bleda is called Buda in modern Hungarian. The city of Buda has been said to derive its name from him. There is an ancient legend, amongst the Székely people that says: "After the death of Attila, in the bloody Battle of Krimhilda, 3000 Hun warriors managed to escape, to settle in a place called "Csigle mezo" (today Transylvania) and they changed their name from Huns to Szekler (Szekely)." When Hungarians came to Pannonia in the 8th century, the Szeklers joined them, and together they conquered Pannonia (today Hungary).

In 2005, a group of about 2,500 Hungarians petitioned the government for recognition of minority status as direct descendants of Attila. The bid failed, but gained some publicity for the group, which formed in the early 1990s and appears to represent a special Hungarian-centric brand of mysticism. The self-proclaimed Huns are not known to possess any distinctly Hunnic culture or language beyond what would be available from historical and modern-mystical Hungarian sources.

Pallantides
03-01-2012, 02:34 AM
Hungarians are genetically closer to south Germans and Austrians than they are Slavs.

Hess
03-01-2012, 02:38 AM
Hungarians are genetically closer to south Germans and Austrians than they are Slavs.

a few of them (like Gabor Vona) seem darker than the typical Southern German or Austrian.

Joe McCarthy
03-01-2012, 02:47 AM
a few of them (like Gabor Vona) seem darker than the typical Southern German or Austrian.

Do a Google image search of Hungarians and you might be in for a shock. ;)

Siberyak
03-01-2012, 02:50 AM
Do a Google image search of Hungarians and you might be in for a shock. ;)

Why? What are you suggesting?

Hess
03-01-2012, 02:54 AM
Do a Google image search of Hungarians and you might be in for a shock. ;)

well they are Europeans, of course, I'm just surprised that they cluster with Germans because many of them seem to have a more Southern look.

Still European, don't get me wrong, just a bit more "Southern" than Germany.

Pallantides
03-01-2012, 02:55 AM
delete

Siberyak
03-01-2012, 02:55 AM
Joe why don't you do a google search for " Multicultural US cities" and you might be in for a shock

Joe McCarthy
03-01-2012, 02:56 AM
Why? What are you suggesting?

It's not especially rare to encounter Hungarians with distinctly Asiatic features. It's not really common, either, but I've even had Hungarians comment on it.

Odoacer
03-01-2012, 02:56 AM
Joe why don't you do a google search for " Multicultural US cities" and you might be in for a shock

Why haven't you moved back to Siberia yet?

Siberyak
03-01-2012, 02:58 AM
Why haven't you moved back to Siberia yet?

You gotta a problem ? Is there something I am saying about the direction this country is going in that bothers you?

Joe McCarthy
03-01-2012, 03:02 AM
You gotta a problem ? Is there something I am saying about the direction this country is going in that bothers you?

He may be alluding to your habit, on multiple threads, to repeatedly throw in irrelevancies about the US which have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Just sayin'.

Siberyak
03-01-2012, 03:06 AM
He may be alluding to your habit, on multiple threads, to repeatedly throw in irrelevancies about the US which have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Just sayin'.


What about you? You seem to have an obsession with Bashing Europeans if they don't go along with US foreign policy. Or anyone that is perceived a threat to American interests anywhere. I have told you my view. Right now I think the USA should practice Isolationism and fix its internal problems first.

Odoacer
03-01-2012, 03:07 AM
You gotta a problem ? Is there something I am saying about the direction this country is going in that bothers you?

What bothers me is that you bring it up incessantly no matter what the topic under discussion actually is. STFU already or move back to Siberia.

Siberyak
03-01-2012, 03:07 AM
What bothers me is that you bring it up incessantly no matter what the topic under discussion actually is. STFU already or move back to Siberia.

Then don't listen :)

Joe McCarthy
03-01-2012, 03:11 AM
What about you? You seem to have an obsession with Bashing Europeans if they don't go along with US foreign policy. Or anyone that is perceived a threat to American interests anywhere. I have told you my view. Right now I think the USA should practice Isolationism and fix its internal problems first.

We have the leader of Hungary's largest nationalist party, a rising political force that threatens to seize power, saying Hungary is a Turkish nation. Trying to impugn me here is just another irrelevant distraction tactic.

Siberyak
03-01-2012, 03:12 AM
We have the leader of Hungary's largest nationalist party, a rising political force that threatens to seize power, saying Hungary is a Turkish nation. Trying to impugn me here is just another irrelevant distraction tactic.

Oh well? What happens in Hungary is its own business.

Joe McCarthy
03-01-2012, 03:14 AM
Oh well? What happens in Hungary is its own business.

No, it isn't. What happens in Hungary is all of our business if it can be shown to plausibly imperil our security.

In any case, you've made yet another post irrelevant to the thread topic.

Stegura
03-01-2012, 04:06 AM
and BTW, is it just me or does Vona himself show some Turanid? :laugh:
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/international/images/48_1417.jpg

He's been classified before. Pontid/Alpinid I say.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=746586#post746586

Magyar the Conqueror
03-01-2012, 04:48 PM
Lol at Joew with his anti-Hungarian threads.

Nowadays, after a lot of killing, assimilation, etc etc, being Hungarian is mostly about the spirit and the mind. Although Hungarian genes have proven to be more dominant than their weaker Slavic or Romanian genes.

Hungarians are of course white, only an idiot like Joew would say they aren't.

Don't forget that Hungarians also had Aryan Scythians in their mix, etc etc, the Huns were also mostly white.

Geronimo
03-01-2012, 04:50 PM
Nooo they are not !

Magyar the Conqueror
03-01-2012, 04:53 PM
Nooo they are not !

We are more civilised,cultured and European than many other countries in Europe, especially in Eastern Europe.

Mercury
03-01-2012, 04:55 PM
We are more civilised,cultured and European than many other countries in Europe, especially in Eastern Europe.


That's not exactly saying a lot. :P

Treffie
03-01-2012, 04:57 PM
We are more civilised,cultured and European than many other countries in Europe, especially in Eastern Europe.

Isn't Hungary the pornography capital of Europe?

Magyar the Conqueror
03-01-2012, 04:57 PM
[/b]


That's not exactly saying a lot. :P

Seriously wtf, go an insult Europeans on an American forum.

Magyar the Conqueror
03-01-2012, 04:58 PM
Isn't Hungary the pornography capital of Europe?

no.

пустиняк
03-01-2012, 04:59 PM
Another very cool thread by Jo

Geronimo
03-01-2012, 05:03 PM
no.

ohh come on now, no need to be modest ;) that means you have award winning pussies :thumb001:

RitinNair
03-01-2012, 05:16 PM
I can't distinguish Hungarians from Germans and Italians, although they do look a bit different from the British and other Westerners.

Magyar the Conqueror
03-01-2012, 05:21 PM
No, it isn't. What happens in Hungary is all of our business if it can be shown to plausibly imperil our security.

In any case, you've made yet another post irrelevant to the thread topic.

WTF? Its none of your business, what we do on our soil is our business, if you dont like it dont go to Hungary.

Mordid
03-01-2012, 05:24 PM
Phenotypically, geographically, mentality, genetically and historically, they are Europeans in every way.

Joe McCarthy
03-01-2012, 05:27 PM
Lol at Joew with his anti-Hungarian threads.

Nowadays, after a lot of killing, assimilation, etc etc, being Hungarian is mostly about the spirit and the mind. Although Hungarian genes have proven to be more dominant than their weaker Slavic or Romanian genes.

Hungarians are of course white, only an idiot like Joew would say they aren't.

Don't forget that Hungarians also had Aryan Scythians in their mix, etc etc, the Huns were also mostly white.

It seems to me that a good portion of you people want to be both European and Turanic. I'm sure the Turks had the same idea around 1566.

hajduk
03-01-2012, 05:32 PM
Will you learn to differentiate Turkish from Turkic. And ancient Magyars as well bulgarians weren't turkic, but irano-scythian tribes, turkic elements might have been presented, but weak

Joe McCarthy
03-01-2012, 05:57 PM
Phenotypically, geographically, mentality, genetically and historically, they are Europeans in every way.

http://www.jobbik.com/jobbik_news/europe/3198.html


Gabor Vona: Turanism Instead of Euro-Atlantic Alliance!



We, Hungarians are the most westerly of the Eastern people. If we put aside the lies about our Finno-Ugric origin, and only profess that we are the descendents of Atilla, we would suddenly find hundreds of millions ready to form a common basis for alliance. In fact, there are about two hundred million people living in the world today, who can say that they are descendants of Atilla. It is not possible, of course, to build a political strategy based on this fact alone. However, if we take a look at the countries from Bulgaria to Turkey and all the way across to Eastern Asia, we realise that we, Hungarians could have a lot of common political objectives with these countries. We come to realise that an alliance based and developed on the principles of Turanism instead of the Euro-Atlantic alliance would be more effective in serving the needs and interests of our nation.




As Jobbik party president, I am now taking the first step by declaring here in Hungary and before the whole world: I am Hungarian, grandson of Atilla! Come what may, I am ready!


:confused:

Styggnacke
03-01-2012, 06:09 PM
Here's a spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ato3EYTdM8lQdGNiUm1uTFlodmJfYXlIdkhxemtSM Hc#gid=0) of the admixture of various European nations from the Eurogenes project. Compare the Hungarian samples with some other Europeans, and it will become very clear for you that Hungarians are racially European.

Magyar the Conqueror
03-01-2012, 06:11 PM
Joew are you seriously saying that just because we want to leave the web of lies, deceit and corruption, we are not European?

Joe McCarthy
03-01-2012, 06:13 PM
Here's a spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ato3EYTdM8lQdGNiUm1uTFlodmJfYXlIdkhxemtSM Hc#gid=0) of the admixture of various European nations from the Eurogenes project. Compare the Hungarian samples with some other Europeans, and it will become very clear for you that Hungarians are racially European.

I haven't denied they're racially European.

But this question, as we have seen, is a bit more complicated than some Eurogenes spreadsheet. Questions of ethnicity touch on issues beyond race.

Stars Down To Earth
03-01-2012, 06:29 PM
I guess this whole "Magyars are Turks" bullshit is both a cultural schizophrenia and an expression of their resentment for the Western nations. It's also a product of liberal modernity, the idea that it's cool and trendy to be nationalist if you're "exotic" (meaning, non-white). Back in medieval times, the Magyars all identified as Catholic Europeans and would rather die than be mates with the Mongols.


It's not especially rare to encounter Hungarians with distinctly Asiatic features. It's not really common, either, but I've even had Hungarians comment on it.
Sure, the Hungarians do have a bit of Asiatic admixture (coming from the original Magyars, who were a transitionary racial type between Europid and Mongoloid, and formed a ruling class in the country), and those genes sometimes surface in a few people. I live in an area that is swamped by Polish immigration, and I've seen a few Poles that look "weird" for Europeans. But that's not enough to make them a non-European people, and the same goes for the Hungarians.

The Hungarians are about as related to the Asian Magyars, as the modern Turkish wogs are to the Turkic tribes. In other words, not very.

Joe McCarthy
03-01-2012, 06:55 PM
The Hungarians are about as related to the Asian Magyars, as the modern Turkish wogs are to the Turkic tribes. In other words, not very.

And just as the Turkish imprint informs the identity of Anatolian Turks, the Magyar identity informs that of Hungarians. No one will deny the importance of Turkish identity on Anatolians, even with the relatively small genetic imprint, so what they actually are genetically, it seems to me, means less than how they see themselves.

And the Magyars, despite being more Germanic-Slavic than Magyar, do not identify with that portion of their being.

So, what does this mean? Well, in practice it seems it means Hungarians, identifying as Magyars, are open to some kind of pan-Turanic political arrangement based on what they feel is a shared ethnic-ancestral affinity.

All of the genetic charts used on race boards are meaningless in the face of this reality.

Padre Organtino
03-01-2012, 06:58 PM
And just as the Turkish imprint informs the identity of Anatolian Turks, the Magyar identity informs that of Hungarians. No one will deny the importance of Turkish identity on Anatolians, even with the relatively small genetic imprint, so what they actually are genetically, it seems to me, means less than how they see themselves.

And the Magyars, despite being more Germanic-Slavic than Magyar, do not identify with that portion of their being.

So, what does this mean? Well, in practice it seems it means Hungarians, identifying as Magyars, are open to some kind of pan-Turanic political arrangement based on what they feel is a shared ethnic-ancestral affinity.

All of the genetic charts used on race boards are meaningless in the face of this reality.

Turks have infinitely more common with Caucasus natives, MENA people and Blakanites that they have with actual Turkic folks like Kazakhs and etc.

Magyar the Conqueror
03-01-2012, 07:00 PM
Joe if you, the EU and Nato will fuck off and leave us alone, I doubt Jobbik will hurry to form a Turanic alliance then.

Chances are the EU will not like Jobbiks policies, and impose sanctions on us, and countries like Iran will not care about Jewish imposed sanctions, so they will trade with us, etc etc.

Anyway, Turanism is more of a spiritual thing, if you showed Vona some of these charts, you still wouldn't convince him that he isn't the Son of Atilla.

Sikeliot
03-01-2012, 07:01 PM
The only thing non-European about them is their language and like, 2% of their genetics if even. They're European through and through.

Not to be blunt but I would understand if this question applied to people like Cypriots but Hungarians are in Central Europe and look perfectly European and are a people of European values and traditions. It's obvious what they are.

StonyArabia
03-01-2012, 07:02 PM
Turks are mostly Turkified Anatolian tribes nothing more and nothing less. They are not the same genetically as MENA nor even culturally but do share some elements with them. They have their own unique culture. Turks do share a connection to Turkmens not to Kazakhs. The Turkic tribes that invaded Anatolia were from Turkmenistan not Kazakhstan or Siberia as some people believe. Turkmenistan has always been influenced by Persian civilization anyways.

Mordid
03-01-2012, 07:02 PM
I've seen a few Poles that look "weird" for Europeans
Probably asslimated Scots. ;)

Sikeliot
03-01-2012, 07:03 PM
Genetically Turks are closer to Europeans than they are to any Semitic groupings.

Turks are probably closer to Balkan people than to Arabians, North Africans, or Iraqis but I'd bet they are closer to Levantines than to any Europeans.

Padre Organtino
03-01-2012, 07:05 PM
Genetically they don't have much with MENA people, only some shared cultural elements. Turkish culture is vastly different from the Hamtio-Semitic one. To many Hamtio-Semites Turkish culture appears to be European mixed with some Central Asian elements with weaker Middle Eastern influences. Genetically Turks are closer to Europeans than they are to any Semitic groupings.

I'm talking bout Fertile Crescent, Iranians and etc who I see as part of Middle East and while you are somewhat correct about MENA folks in general they are still closer to Turks than say Kyrgyzs.

Joe McCarthy
03-01-2012, 07:07 PM
Genetically they don't have much with MENA people, only some shared cultural elements. Turkish culture is vastly different from the Hamtio-Semitic one. To many Hamtio-Semites Turkish culture appears to be European mixed with some Central Asian elements with weaker Middle Eastern influences. Genetically Turks are closer to Europeans than they are to any Semitic groupings.

Culturally the Turks are a weird Byzantine-Persian-Egyptian-Arab hybrid. Plus they've been heavily Westernized by Kemalists. Ethnically though they still identify as Turks, and the actual genetic makeup is essentially irrelevant to their identity.

StonyArabia
03-01-2012, 07:10 PM
Turks are probably closer to Balkan people than to Arabians, North Africans, or Iraqis but I'd bet they are closer to Levantines than to any Europeans.

The only Levantines they are close to are the Maronites and Assyrians, they are not close to the Druze, Samaritans or other groups. The Samaritan genome is almost identical to the Palestinians. Iraqis are closer to Arabian populations, there just a subset, but the closest relatives are Bahrainis.


I'm talking bout Fertile Crescent, Iranians and etc who I see as part of Middle East and while you are somewhat correct about MENA folks in general they are still closer to Turks than say Kyrgyzs.

Yes of course, but they are also closer to Turkmens than they are to MENA. It all depends on prespective.



Culturally the Turks are a weird Byzantine-Persian-Egyptian-Arab hybrid. Plus they've been heavily Westernized by Kemalists. Ethnically though they still identify as Turks, and the actual genetic makeup is essentially irrelevant to their identity.

That is correct . I thought you meant genetically just read it again yes, and they are mostly Anatolic peoples who adopted such cultural lifestyle, genetically they are just Anatolians, and anyone can be Turk as long you speak and have some Turkic cultural attributes which they in fact do.

Joe McCarthy
03-01-2012, 07:17 PM
Anyway, Turanism is more of a spiritual thing, if you showed Vona some of these charts, you still wouldn't convince him that he isn't the Son of Atilla.

On that we agree completely. Some here are seemingly unable to get beyond charts and graphs signifying where groups cluster. Few in the real world care about this stuff - and certainly not Gabor Vona.

Moreover, the question of this thread touches on ethnicity, not just race. And ethnicity is a collection of things, some of which are intangible, like shared feeling, mindset, and spirituality.

Stegura
03-01-2012, 07:36 PM
Isn't Hungary the pornography capital of Europe?

No, Prague is.

Pallantides
03-01-2012, 08:10 PM
Comparison of maternal lineage and biogeographic analyses of ancient and modern Hungarian populations.

Tömöry G et al.

The Hungarian language belongs to the Finno-Ugric branch of the Uralic family, but Hungarian speakers have been living in Central Europe for more than 1000 years, surrounded by speakers of unrelated Indo-European languages. In order to study the continuity in maternal lineage between ancient and modern Hungarian populations, polymorphisms in the HVSI and protein coding regions of mitochondrial DNA sequences of 27 ancient samples (10th-11th centuries), 101 modern Hungarian, and 76 modern Hungarian-speaking Sekler samples from Transylvania were analyzed. The data were compared with sequences derived from 57 European and Asian populations, including Finno-Ugric populations, and statistical analyses were performed to investigate their genetic relationships. Only 2 of 27 ancient Hungarian samples are unambiguously Asian: the rest belong to one of the western Eurasian haplogroups, but some Asian affinities, and the genetic effect of populations who came into contact with ancient Hungarians during their migrations are seen. Strong differences appear when the ancient Hungarian samples are analyzed according to apparent social status, as judged by grave goods. Commoners show a predominance of mtDNA haplotypes and haplogroups (H, R, T), common in west Eurasia, while high-status individuals, presumably conquering Hungarians, show a more heterogeneous haplogroup distribution, with haplogroups (N1a, X) which are present at very low frequencies in modern worldwide populations and are absent in recent Hungarian and Sekler populations. Modern Hungarian-speaking populations seem to be specifically European. Our findings demonstrate that significant genetic differences exist between the ancient and recent Hungarian-speaking populations, and no genetic continuity is seen.

Link (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17632797&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum)

Insuperable
03-01-2012, 08:17 PM
I am sorry, but I think that this is not a good thread

Joe McCarthy
03-01-2012, 08:23 PM
Our findings demonstrate that significant genetic differences exist between the ancient and recent Hungarian-speaking populations, and no genetic continuity is seen.


Interesting. I wonder what 'ancient' means in this context though? Is it 1100 years ago or what?

Padre Organtino
03-01-2012, 08:36 PM
On that we agree completely. Some here are seemingly unable to get beyond charts and graphs signifying where groups cluster. Few in the real world care about this stuff - and certainly not Gabor Vona.

Moreover, the question of this thread touches on ethnicity, not just race. And ethnicity is a collection of things, some of which are intangible, like shared feeling, mindset, and spirituality.

Well, problem is you can't really get far from what your genes dictate without starting to look stupid. Charts and Graphs represent info on one's ancestry that was formed throughout millenia and can not be changed with ease. There is no reason to assume that Steppe Nomad wonnabe Hungarian has any more relationship to Mongols than say German. In most cases people that dream of being who they are not end up like this:

LiV22pJYG7M

Transhumanist
03-01-2012, 09:20 PM
The Samaritan genome is almost identical to the Palestinians.

I disagree.

Dodecad K12b Northwest African, East African, Sub Saharan, and total "African."


N POP N_W Est SSH African

"Sub_Saharan" Present
8 YEM 3.3 9.4 8.8 21.5 Arabia
31 PAL 5.4 5.2 2.0 12.6 Levant
20 JOR 5.5 4.9 2.1 12.5 Levant
33 BED 4.9 5.3 2.1 12.3 Arabia
7 LEB 4.7 2.4 1.0 8.1 Levant
15 SYR 1.5 2.9 1.8 6.2 Levant

Little or no detectable "Sub_Saharan"
14 YEJ 3.1 4.7 0.0 7.8 Arabia
20 KSA 1.4 2.6 0.3 4.3 Arabia
32 DRZ 2.9 1.1 0.2 4.2 Levant <-- Endogamous group for likely at least the last ~1000 years. mtDNA L2 observed at low frequencies.

Almost exclusively "NW African" (if at all present)
2 SAM 4.5 0.2 0.0 4.7 Levant
11 CYP 2.1 0.0 0.0 2.1 E Mediterranean / European
4 IRJ 1.8 0.0 0.0 1.8 S/C Mesopotamia
10 IQJ 1.6 0.0 0.0 1.6 S/C Mesopotamia
2 MAN 1.3 0.0 0.0 1.3 S/C Mesopotamia
13 ASY 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 N Mesopotamia

Dodecad Oracle "mix" results for Samaritans and Palestinians:

1 Samaritans
2 74.2% Druze + 25.8% Yemen_Jews 5.24
3 84.3% Druze + 15.7% Saudis 6.63
4 49.4% Armenians + 50.6% Yemen_Jews 7.32
5 27.3% Bedouin + 72.7% Druze 7.47
6 61.5% Cypriots + 38.5% Yemen_Jews 7.56
7 53.9% Armenian_D + 46.1% Yemen_Jews 8.06
8 47.1% Yemen_Jews + 52.9% Armenians_15_Y 8.88
9 58.9% Druze + 41.1% Palestinian 8.98
10 82.1% Druze + 17.9% Yemenese 9.40
11 58.9% Assyrian_D + 41.1% Yemen_Jews 9.68

The most informative mix pairs (in blue font) for Palestinians, notwithstanding the distances, in my opinion, are those that do not include fellow Arabian and/or Arabized populations from the Asian continent.

1 Palestinian
2 "89.1% Jordanians + 10.9% Yemen_Jews" "2.2227"
3 "15.8% Bedouin + 84.2% Jordanians" "2.6256"
4 "94.5% Jordanians + 5.5% Saudis" "2.9299"
5 "85.6% Jordanians + 14.4% Samaritians" "3.2659"
6 "90.3% Jordanians + 9.7% Yemenese" "3.4335"
7 "11.8% Egyptans + 88.2% Jordanians" "3.4601"
8 "38% Bedouin + 62% Lebanese" "3.6458"
9 "0.9% Ethiopians + 99.1% Jordanians" "3.8019"
10 "0.8% Ethiopian_Jews + 99.2% Jordanians" "3.8105"
11 "0.3% Somali_D + 99.7% Jordanians" "3.8379"
12 "Jordanians" "3.8458"
13-224 "FALSE" "3.8458"
225 "33.3% Egyptans + 66.7% Syrians" "4.0417"
226 "48.9% Bedouin + 51.1% Druze" "4.3637"
227 "74.4% Lebanese + 25.6% Yemen_Jews" "4.3763"
228 "53.3% Druze + 46.7% Yemenese" "4.5591"
229 "56.6% Egyptans + 43.4% Iraq_Jews" "4.7076"
230 "48.6% Egyptans + 51.4% Samaritians" "4.8005"
231 "46.7% Druze + 53.3% Egyptans" "4.8881"
232 "58.5% Bedouin + 41.5% Cypriots" "4.9573"
233 "69% Bedouin + 31% Armenians" "5.0203"
234 "43.7% Cypriots + 56.3% Yemenese" "5.28"
235 "34.8% Armenian_D + 65.2% Bedouin" "5.2801"
236 "83.7% Lebanese + 16.3% Saudis" "5.3024"
237 "65.6% Lebanese + 34.4% Yemenese" "5.3106"
238 "26.3% Bedouin + 73.7% Syrians" "5.3752"
239 "35.7% Turkish_D + 64.3% Bedouin" "5.4283"
240 "40.5% Egyptans + 59.5% Lebanese" "5.5445"
241 "66% Bedouin + 34% Armenians_15_Y" "5.6319"
242 "84.2% Syrians + 15.8% Yemen_Jews" "5.7149"
243 "64.3% Bedouin + 35.7% Turks" "5.7948"
244 "61.8% Egyptans + 38.2% Iranian_Jews" "5.9215"
245 "34.4% Assyrian_D + 65.6% Egyptans" "6.0557"
246 "78.4% Syrians + 21.6% Yemenese" "6.0751"
247 "61.9% Bedouin + 38.1% Azerbaijan_Jews" "6.0989"
248 "58.6% Samaritians + 41.4% Yemenese" "6.1095"
249 "38.7% Assyrian_D + 61.3% Bedouin" "6.2497"
250 "60.9% Bedouin + 39.1% Georgia_Jews" "6.3475"
251 "26.2% Samaritians + 73.8% Syrians" "6.3626"
252 "65.4% Egyptans + 34.6% Georgia_Jews" "6.4043"
253 "6.4% Moroccans + 93.6% Syrians" "6.4255"
254 "33.5% Azerbaijan_Jews + 66.5% Egyptans" "6.4363"
255 "5.6% Ethiopians + 94.4% Syrians" "6.448"
256 "5.3% Ethiopian_Jews + 94.7% Syrians" "6.4948"
257 "3.2% Mozabite + 96.8% Syrians" "6.5212"
258 "7.4% Algerian_D + 92.6% Syrians" "6.5386"
259 "5.9% Moroccan_D + 94.1% Syrians" "6.563"
260 "7.4% Saudis + 92.6% Syrians" "6.6028"
261 "77.7% Bedouin + 22.3% Abhkasians_Y" "6.6412"
262 "78.5% Bedouin + 21.5% Georgians" "6.6825"
263 "3.9% Somali_D + 96.1% Syrians" "6.7131"
264 "52.6% Bedouin + 47.4% Iraq_Jews" "6.95"
265 "11.6% MKK30 + 88.4% Samaritians" "6.9924"
266 "14.4% Ethiopians + 85.6% Samaritians" "7.0137"
267 "2.8% MKK30 + 97.2% Syrians" "7.0623"
268 "59.8% Bedouin + 40.2% Uzbekistan_Jews" "7.0655"
269 "29.4% Armenian_D + 70.6% Egyptans" "7.0912"
270 "13.9% Ethiopian_Jews + 86.1% Samaritians" "7.1503"
271 "97.8% Syrians + 2.2% Sandawe_He" "7.1637"
272 "71.4% Egyptans + 28.6% Armenians_15_Y" "7.2723"
273 "64.8% Egyptans + 35.2% Uzbekistan_Jews" "7.277"
274 "57.9% Bedouin + 42.1% Iranian_Jews" "7.2821"
275 "11.6% Somali_D + 88.4% Samaritians" "7.3046"

Anthropologique
03-01-2012, 09:23 PM
and BTW, is it just me or does Vona himself show some Turanid? :laugh:
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/international/images/48_1417.jpg

Don't think so.

Mercury
03-01-2012, 09:24 PM
What about this Finn:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgrHnRk79PQp0P7hOLRq1gLbcymvKln Om_agPcLNqCQa1FVLhuKLypVg_J

RagnarLodbrok666
03-02-2012, 03:18 AM
What about this Finn:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgrHnRk79PQp0P7hOLRq1gLbcymvKln Om_agPcLNqCQa1FVLhuKLypVg_J

He was technically half Finn and half Mongolian mixed.

Joe McCarthy
03-02-2012, 03:22 AM
Well, problem is you can't really get far from what your genes dictate without starting to look stupid. Charts and Graphs represent info on one's ancestry that was formed throughout millenia and can not be changed with ease. There is no reason to assume that Steppe Nomad wonnabe Hungarian has any more relationship to Mongols than say German. In most cases people that dream of being who they are not end up like this:

LiV22pJYG7M

Nonetheless, Hungarians are Magyars, see themselves as such, have a history in this Attila stuff, the shared affinity with Turkic peoples, and the Turanist ideology, going back in some cases basically to the ethnogenesis of Hungary. Telling the average Hungarian he should discard all of this in favor of some genetics spreadsheet will be met with a blank stare, at best. It'd be like telling Turks to forsake their Turkish identity in favor of some pre-Manzikert Anatolian identity.

It's actually quite laughable really.

Pallantides
03-02-2012, 03:33 AM
He was technically half Finn and half Mongolian mixed.

Proof?



Both his parents are ethnic Finns from the information I have gathered.

RagnarLodbrok666
03-02-2012, 03:42 AM
Proof?



Both his parents are ethnic Finns from the information I have gathered.

I wasn't sure and was just going on what I heard.

The Ripper
03-02-2012, 09:26 AM
He was technically half Finn and half Mongolian mixed.

...Not. :cool:

delicoban33
04-23-2012, 02:03 PM
HUN-GARY , does this make sense?

Libertas
04-23-2012, 02:58 PM
HUN-GARY , does this make sense?

Hungarians don't call themselves Hungarian but use Magyar instead.

Rereg
04-23-2012, 03:45 PM
Modern Magyars are central-europeans just like Slovaks and Czechs. You don't find any exotic influence among their.

Sikeliot
04-23-2012, 03:50 PM
Hungarians look Central European by and large even if a small minority of them look influenced by Central Asia.

Pallantides
04-23-2012, 08:26 PM
Hungarians look Central European by and large even if a small minority of them look influenced by Central Asia.

That seem rather unlikely judging by their genetic results.

Arne
04-23-2012, 08:28 PM
No.

finţaų
04-23-2012, 08:30 PM
I shall be concise - yes.

Arrow Cross
04-23-2012, 09:44 PM
it's one thing to seek an alliance of convenience in tough times, it's a whole other thing to declare yourself the "Grandson of Atilla" :rolleyes2:
As noted earlier, it has been the case since the "Dark Medieval". We've always considered ourselves a brother people (related, not descendants) to the Huns.


It's not especially rare to encounter Hungarians with distinctly Asiatic features. It's not really common, either, but I've even had Hungarians comment on it.
That's true. Our original, Central Asian (though not exactly Mongoloid) genes proved to be rather enduring and dominant, and non-European facial features are still easily discernable in many a case.


race and genetics aside, I am horribly disappointed by Jobbik's recent course of action and I hope they turn back to Europe once again instead of going down this dangerous path.
We didn't turn our back on Europe, Europe turned its back on us. What exactly should Jobbik do when the EU wishes for its immediate dissolution and considers it an affront to house three of its members in its parliament, and when even its supposed "fellow far-righters" in the West openly disassociate from it in outrage over its opposition to homosexuals, Zionist Jews and their Holohoax industry?

Europe is insane. The East is not. Therefore, we turn to the East until the West is ready to take our hand. Should it even occur.

delicoban33
04-25-2012, 02:44 PM
Magyars were Turk's family. But they are rejecting this nowadays. Asimilated, they are no more children of Atilla.

Ianus
11-09-2013, 08:40 PM
Hungarian are European, culturally and phenotypically

Szegedist
11-19-2013, 11:54 PM
I didn't realize we needed others to tell us what we are. Thank you all for enlightening me.

Black Wolf
11-19-2013, 11:56 PM
People really need to educate themselves before making threads like this. If you are interested in the genetics of a group of people all you have to do is Google it. There is tonnes of resources on the net now about the genetics of almost all peoples on earth. Hungarians are both genetically and culturally Europeans.

Szegedist
11-20-2013, 12:00 AM
What happens in Hungary is all of our business .
Wrong.


Oh well? What happens in Hungary is its own business.

Correct.

Szegedist
11-20-2013, 12:01 AM
Hungarians in an "ethnoracial" sense, are Hungarians.

blogen
11-20-2013, 12:04 AM
People really need to educate themselves before making threads like this. If you are interested in the genetics of a group of people all you have to do is Google it. There is tonnes of resources on the net now about the genetics of almost all peoples on earth. Hungarians are both genetically and culturally Europeans.

Western Eurasians (from west of the Altai) is the proper term. A part of the Hungarians' genes is typical on the Eastern European and Central-Asian steppe too! Only the Eastern Eurasian link is insignificant.

Stears
11-20-2013, 06:54 AM
Racially they are closely related to their fellow Europeans. The Magyars have been mixing with indigenous Europeans since they arrive on the continent, and have a history and culture closely linked with their neighboring countries. I don't see how they can be considered anything but European.


Politics and Nationalism don't change reality. No matter how much Hungarians wish for that to be the case. I guess because it's uncool to be European or of European descent in this day of age, Hungarians are looking for some exotic, pathetic identity to be attached with.

Wrong. Our culture culture closely linked only with western-christian (catholic-protestant) countries.

Stears
11-20-2013, 06:56 AM
and BTW, is it just me or does Vona himself show some Turanid? :laugh:
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/international/images/48_1417.jpg

Wrong, Gábor's family is a mix of Hungarian Italian and Slovak ancestors. As he confirmed it in his own biography. So he looks mediterran.

Stears
11-20-2013, 07:03 AM
Western Eurasians (from west of the Altai) is the proper term. A part of the Hungarians' genes is typical on the Eastern European and Central-Asian steppe too! Only the Eastern Eurasian link is insignificant.

Said blogen, who is a gypsy descendant. And he considers american culture superior to european culture. He is an idiot gypsy gay.

Stears
11-20-2013, 07:28 AM
Gábor Vona always mention in Hungarian TV interviews his Italian ancestors.

He is a historian, his university thesis was about the development of Italian city states after the fall of Roman Empire.


He spoke Italian English and German. (note: His first language exam was Italian, when he was 14 years old)



Gábor vona as a main guest of Movimento Sociale Fiamma Tricolore (The Tricolour Flame Social Movement) in Rome in 2009.

Watch his video:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Lq16DwFG78