Bulgars! Honour your past

[Crn Volk]

http://www.kutriguri.com/

http://www.kutriguri.com/images/Vaida_rides_1.jpg

http://chrisdeliso.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/chrisdelisocom-lonely-planet-bulgaria-2008-195x300.jpg

[iNird]

It's quite ironic when these FYROMians refer to Bulgars as Tatars and other names. The ancestors of these FYROMians would smack these retards upside the head for making fun of them.

:D

[Crn Volk]

Shiptars are the most Ottoman of all Balkanites today. Your ancestors would turn in their graves if they know you were denying your Islamic routes....

[iNird]

Shiptars are the most Ottoman of all Balkanites today. Your ancestors would turn in their graves if they know you were denying your Islamic routes....

My ancestors were once pagans then Christians then Muslims. They were probably peasants that did not know much about the religion. The earliest converts were probably crypto Christians. My ancestors would turn in their graves b/c my Albanians language skills aren't strong if anything.

My ancestors always referred to your kind as Bulgarians. Here's a few lines from a song in my region where it talks about some fighting with Bulgarian komitas:

E po se me Bugari do luftojna ne
-we will fight the Bulgar
O ju komita komitat Bugar
-Oh you komita bulgar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdVFFndiGtU&feature=channel

;)

[Crn Volk]

My ancestors were once pagans then Christians then Muslims. They were probably peasants that did not know much about the religion. The earliest converts were probably crypto Christians. My ancestors would turn in their graves b/c my Albanians language skills aren't strong if anything.

My ancestors always referred to your kind as Bulgarians. Here's a few lines from a song in my region where it talks about some fighting with Bulgarian komitas:

E po se me Bugari do luftojna ne
-we will fight the Bulgar
O ju komita komitat Bugar
-Oh you komita bulgar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdVFFndiGtU&feature=channel

;)

And my ancestors referred to your kind as 'Turci'

[iNird]

And my ancestors referred to your kind as 'Turci'

That's fine. Albanians have traditions, language, physical traits and etc. that separate us from Turks. We share a similar religion, some common loan words and customs and that's about it. Most of the Balkans has adopted some Turkish words and customs so not really a big issue. You can call us Turci all you want but we know we aren't Turks. We can prove it lol.

How do you distinguish yourself from a Bulgarian? Alexander Greatovski lol. You have the same names as the Bulgarians, similar customs, same language, similar heroes and so forth. Other than this Ancient Macedonian crap you don't differ from you Bulgarian parents.

:)

[Crn Volk]

That's fine. Albanians have traditions, language, physical traits and etc. that separate us from Turks. We share a similar religion, some common loan words and customs and that's about it. You can call us Turci all you want but we know we aren't Turks.

How do you distinguish yourself from a Bulgarian? Alexander Greatovski lol. You have the same names as the Bulgarians, similar customs, same language, similar heroes and so forth. Other than this Ancient Macedonian crap you don't differ from you Bulgarian parents.

:)

There was no mass proto-bulgar settlement on the territory of Macedonia, unlike in today's bulgaria (Thrace, Moesia). I'm sure the bulgars will disagree and say Kuber's horde settled in Pelagonia, but this was a minor group of people, which constisted of a number of differing people's from Pannonia. Aside from this racial difference, our languages are different, although related just like both are related to Serbo-Croatian. We also have different cultural and religous traditions eg. Macedonians celebrate the Slava (like Serbs do), we also follow the old Julian calender, unlike the bulgars who celebrate their religious holidays on the Gregorian calender....

[Drawing-slim]

Shiptars are the most Ottoman of all Balkanites today. Your ancestors would turn in their graves if they know you were denying your Islamic routes....Reall macedonians are turning on their graves as we speak, looking at these shameless slavic bastard clowns pretending to be real macedonians.
They are going beserk, fucking nuts, underground where they lay as we speak.

[Trun]

There was no mass proto-bulgar settlement on the territory of Macedonia, unlike in today's bulgaria (Thrace, Moesia). I'm sure the bulgars will disagree and say Kuber's horde settled in Pelagonia, but this was a minor group of people, which constisted of a number of differing people's from Pannonia. Aside from this racial difference, our languages are different, although related just like both are related to Serbo-Croatian. We also have different cultural and religous traditions eg. Macedonians celebrate the Slava (like Serbs do), we also follow the old Julian calender, unlike the bulgars who celebrate their religious holidays on the Gregorian calender....

First, stop calling us Bulgars. We are Bulgarians douchebag.

Second, if your ancestors knew how you are insulting the country they have died for in the uprisings, they'll live you without pocket money for centuries.

Third, gtfo.

[lepa]

Wtf, why you made this thread? Im already proud of my "turko-mongolo-tatar" ancestors. LOL

[пустиняк]

Lol this organization doesn't deserve a lot of comment ;D

Btw we honor our past I think is time for you to do the same :)

http://tito.firbec.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/jc.jpg

[пустиняк]

Macedonians celebrate the Slava (like Serbs do)

Well probably your family is either Serbian or Serboman. And btw I guess you know what's the attitude of VMRO against second esp.

[morski]

Well probably your family is either Serbian or Serboman. And btw I guess you know what's the attitude of VMRO against second esp.

KLuQMhlSiSg

[Crn Volk]

First, stop calling us Bulgars. We are Bulgarians douchebag.

Second, if your ancestors knew how you are insulting the country they have died for in the uprisings, they'll live you without pocket money for centuries.

Third, gtfo.

You say tomatoe, i say tomato...

[Crn Volk]

Well probably your family is either Serbian or Serboman. And btw I guess you know what's the attitude of VMRO against second esp.

I am neither Serb, nor Srboman. In fact my family disliked both and resisted the royalist serbian rule in Macedonia. You just need to come to terms with the fact that we are not Bulgarians either.

[morski]

I am neither Serb, nor Srboman. In fact my family disliked both and resisted the royalist serbian rule in Macedonia. You just need to come to terms with the fact that we are not Bulgarians anymore.

Sure.

[Crn Volk]

Sure.

Use my original quote you sneaky little tartar;

"I am neither Serb, nor Srboman. In fact my family disliked both and resisted the royalist serbian rule in Macedonia. You just need to come to terms with the fact that we are not Bulgarians either."

[morski]

Use my original quote you sneaky little tartar;

"I am neither Serb, nor Srboman. In fact my family disliked both and resisted the royalist serbian rule in Macedonia. You just need to come to terms with the fact that we are not Bulgarians either."

You sure ain't no Serboman, one can cleraly see it in your avatar:
http://www.stardusttrailers.com/gallery_film/%28080509092515%29Behind_Enemy_Lines_dietro_linee_ nemiche_7.jpg

:thumb001:

[Crn Volk]

You sure ain't no Serboman, one can cleraly see it in your avatar:
http://www.stardusttrailers.com/gallery_film/%28080509092515%29Behind_Enemy_Lines_dietro_linee_ nemiche_7.jpg

:thumb001:

Russian actor Vladimir Mashkov....

[iNird]

I am neither Serb, nor Srboman. In fact my family disliked both and resisted the royalist serbian rule in Macedonia. You just need to come to terms with the fact that we are not Bulgarians either.

Are you from Northern Macedonia? I have read that only Macedonians from the Northern Part celebrate Slava.

[Crn Volk]

Are you from Northern Macedonia? I have read that only Macedonians from the Northern Part celebrate Slava.

No, southern Macedonia

[morski]

Russian actor Vladimir Mashkov....

Playing Serb thug...

[Crn Volk]

Playing Serb thug...

You like this one better? :lightbul:

http://www.novamakedonija.com.mk/Uploads/News/omo%5B3%5D.jpg

[morski]

Aye, that's better... a bunch of Macednoian Serboslavs.

[Trun]

You like this one better? :lightbul:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=4581&dateline=1331002531

No, this is my favourite:

http://www.gospodari.com/uploads/video/normal/00001510.jpg

[Crn Volk]

repeat after me...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6nvZlnqI5gs/SEsBUJYHoeI/AAAAAAAADEY/TtB6e9lbGYg/s400/mk.png

[Rastko]

Was Samuilo Macedonian or Bulgarian?

[пустиняк]

Was Samuilo Macedonian or Bulgarian?

Lol what kind of question is that. There is no scientific debate on that case.

[Rastko]

My professor said there is a argue about it?Because in some books it says ''Macedonian state of Samuilo''.

[morski]

My professor said there is a argue about it?Because in some books it says ''Macedonian state of Samuilo''.

Yeah, some fyroMacedonian and Serbian books...

[пустиняк]

My professor said there is a argue about it?Because in some books it says ''Macedonian state of Samuilo''.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_II

[Guapo]

Fuck shitaria and bolgariska, Unban Dushan!! ;)

http://www.novosti.rs/upload/images/gallery/2011/13/srbija%20makedonija/zastave-zajedno.jpg

[Guapo]

My professor said there is a argue about it?Because in some books it says ''Macedonian state of Samuilo''.

That is correct :thumbs up

[mymy]

Guapo, if you want that those people respect your country, you can't talk like that about theirs!!!

[Guapo]

Guapo, if you want that those people respect your country, you can't talk like that about theirs!!!

I could care less, majority of people in this thread are anti-Serbian anyway

[morski]

Fuck shitaria and bolgariska, Unban Dushan!! ;)

http://www.novosti.rs/upload/images/gallery/2011/13/srbija%20makedonija/zastave-zajedno.jpg

It's funny how you like the MAcedonians so much considering they assassinated your king (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_I_of_Yugoslavia#Assassination)...

http://www.picvalley.net/u/2013/187853124619515660751261499413ZUSNgFSFEjbAT8REG6gL .JPG

[Guapo]

It's funny how you like the MAcedonians so much considering they assassinated your king (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_I_of_Yugoslavia#Assassination)...

http://www.picvalley.net/u/2013/187853124619515660751261499413ZUSNgFSFEjbAT8REG6gL .JPG

tuta bugarin, It says the assassin was a Bulgarian :confused: :rotfl:

[пустиняк]

It's funny how you like the MAcedonians so much considering they assassinated your king (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_I_of_Yugoslavia#Assassination)...

http://www.picvalley.net/u/2013/187853124619515660751261499413ZUSNgFSFEjbAT8REG6gL .JPG

Alexander took what he deserved :coffee:

http://www.lostbulgaria.com/pic/1142.jpg

[morski]

tuta bugarin, It says the assassin was a Bulgarian :confused: :rotfl:

Macedonian=Bulgarian.;)

They seem to praise him like one of their own anyway:
http://patepis.com/wp-content/gallery/mk-makedonia/novo-skopje_albania-macedonia-1606.jpg

[Guapo]

I don't dwell on the past, losers :coffee:

[Drawing-slim]

I don't dwell on the past, losers :coffee:Says the guy who keeps saying "kosovo je serbia" ten times a day for 13 years:coffee:

[Guapo]

kosovo je serbia

I agree, you like my new signature?

[mymy]

Although this thread is one of those that does't look serious, it would be nice if some of you would act more mature.
And btw, Kosovo doesn't have to do anything with this topic.

[Guapo]

Although this thread is one of those that didn't look serious, it would be nice if some of you would act more mature.
And btw, Kosovo doesn't have to do anything with this topic.

Thanks mymy

[Drawing-slim]

I agree, you like my new signature?

If it would make you stop sayin that at least for one day, sure, go ahead
The least i can do to help a neighbor move on:D
(Impsired by mymy's good will for peace:p)

[Crn Volk]

I don't dwell on the past, losers :coffee:

Indeed, Serbia recognises the Macedonian state, nation and language, and the Macedonian minority within it's borders. Macedonia does the same with the Serbs in Macedonia. Bulgaria on the other hand, denies the existence of the Macedonian people and language, and instead is issuing BG passwords to Macedonians, in the hope it can use them at a later date to interefere in Macedonian politics directly. This is actually already happening. So while Bulgars here like to crap on about history and blah, blah, blah, the Macedonian, Serbian and Bulgarian states have moved on. We are fighting the current battles, and preparing for the future ones. I'd like to see the Bulgars show their true colours and tell us how they feel about the shiptars and what they'd like to happen to R.Macedonia in the future.

[morski]

Indeed, Serbia recognises the Macedonian state, nation and language, and the Macedonian minority within it's borders. Macedonia does the same with the Serbs in Macedonia. Bulgaria on the other hand, denies the existence of the Macedonian people and language, and instead is issuing BG passwords to Macedonians, in the hope it can use them at a later date to interefere in Macedonian politics directly. This is actually already happening. So while Bulgars here like to crap on about history and blah, blah, blah, the Macedonian, Serbian and Bulgarian states have moved on. We are fighting the current battles, and preparing for the future ones. I'd like to see the Bulgars show their true colours and tell us how they feel about the shiptars and what they'd like to happen to R.Macedonia in the future.

We support INDEPENDENT fyroMacedonia. Meaning- all UDBA agents, KOS agents and Serboslav elements in general GTFO of Vardarsko! Yugoslavia is DEAD, so any Yugoslav relics should die as well.

[Panopticon]

VpLLq6WEDNo

[Kanuni]

Indeed, Serbia recognises the Macedonian state, nation and language, and the Macedonian minority within it's borders. Macedonia does the same with the Serbs in Macedonia. Bulgaria on the other hand, denies the existence of the Macedonian people and language, and instead is issuing BG passwords to Macedonians, in the hope it can use them at a later date to interefere in Macedonian politics directly. This is actually already happening. So while Bulgars here like to crap on about history and blah, blah, blah, the Macedonian, Serbian and Bulgarian states have moved on. We are fighting the current battles, and preparing for the future ones. I'd like to see the Bulgars show their true colours and tell us how they feel about the shiptars and what they'd like to happen to R.Macedonia in the future.

Macedonians from Kumanovo are all ethnic Serbs, while the rest are obviously Bulgarians in denial and Vlachs.Take for example Macedonians from South/East if you know the standard Macedonian language it is a bit hard to understand their accent it sounds much more to Bulgarian, as much as you wanted to distance and make your dialect to new language you failed because knowing the SlavoMacedonian language you can still understand and read in Bulgarian.

[Crn Volk]

Macedonians from Kumanovo are all ethnic Serbs, while the rest are obviously Bulgarians in denial and Vlachs.Take for example Macedonians from South/East if you know the standard Macedonian language it is a bit hard to understand their accent it sounds much more to Bulgarian, as much as you wanted to distance and make your dialect to new language you failed because knowing the SlavoMacedonian language you can still understand and read in Bulgarian.

The population of the city of Kumanovo according to the 2002 census numbers 70,842, the majority of which are ethnic Macedonians (42,840), with a significant minority of ethnic Albanians (18,277) and Serbs (4,727).

[Crn Volk]

We support INDEPENDENT fyroMacedonia. Meaning- all UDBA agents, KOS agents and Serboslav elements in general GTFO of Vardarsko! Yugoslavia is DEAD, so any Yugoslav relics should die as well.

Indeed, all Yugozombies and Bugaromani OUT!!!!

[morski]

Yeah... let me honour my past with this picture:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Mbun.jpg

[Crn Volk]

I prefer this;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a9/1924_Lorain%2C_Ohio_MPO_Alexander_the_Great.jpg

MPO local chapter "Alexander the Great" of Lorain, Ohio, founded in 1924

[morski]

I prefer this;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a9/1924_Lorain%2C_Ohio_MPO_Alexander_the_Great.jpg

MPO local chapter "Alexander the Great" of Lorain, Ohio, founded in 1924

Yeah, some Bulgarians from Macedonia holding a poster with the slogan:

Македония за македонцитѣ
За нея ние се боримъ за нея ние мрѣмъ

written in Bulgarian with the antebellum Bulgarian alphabet.

[Crn Volk]

Yeah, some Bulgarians from Macedonia holding a poster with the slogan:

Македония за македонцитѣ
За нея ние се боримъ за нея ние мрѣмъ

written in Bulgarian with the antebellum Bulgarian alphabet.

Yes, but why Alexander the Great? and why Macedonia for the Macedonians and not the Bulgarians. Why do they fight for Macedonia, and not Bulgaria??

[morski]

Yes, but why Alexander the Great? and why Macedonia for the Macedonians and not the Bulgarians. Why do they fight for Macedonia, and not Bulgaria??

Ever heard of Switzerland in the Balkans?

For the most of its existence IMRO was autonomist - they advocated an independent Macedonia (with the majority expecting it to, at some later time, unite with Bulgaria and the minority- not) and also were open to members from all ethnic groups in the geographical region of Macedonia- Bulgarians, Albanians, Turks, Vlachs, Serbs, Greeks, Jews, Gypsies hence Macedonia for the Macedonians(regardless of ethnic affiliation).

[Padre Organtino]

Macedonians are my favourite imaginary people together with Elves, Vampires and Khazars:p

[morski]

Yes, but why Alexander the Great? and why Macedonia for the Macedonians and not the Bulgarians. Why do they fight for Macedonia, and not Bulgaria??

http://www.news4000.bg/pictures/image.php?name=plovdiv2.JPG&w=340
http://content.marica.bg/news/2012/03/0000028633_w480.jpg

Monument of Philip II of Macedon in Plovdiv, Bulgaria.

[morski]

Yes, but why Alexander the Great? and why Macedonia for the Macedonians and not the Bulgarians. Why do they fight for Macedonia, and not Bulgaria??


Ivan Hadjinikolov1 on the Serbian propaganda in Macedonia which led to the creation of the Revolutionary Organization 1892

After 1888 Serbian propaganda in Macedonia became very active and began to attack even the Soloun High School. With money and big promises, the Serbian agitators succeeded in misleading about forty high school pupils and in sending them to Belgrade, but after a year's stay, they ran away to Sofia. The same propaganda spends enormous sums of money on opening Serbian schools all over Macedonia, bribing a few mercenary people in each settlement. The Turkish government and the Constantinople Patriarchate were at their service. Knowing that there are no Serbians in Macedonia, these activities of the Serbian agitators made me very indignant. In my attempts to find a means of counteracting this propaganda, I came to the conclusion that only an underground revolutionary organization could neutralize the foreign propaganda in Macedonia, and it would be the most reliable support for the preservation of Bulgarian national feeling in Macedonia, and would help to strengthen the population both morally and economically. In my speculations on the formation of .a revolutionary organization, I foresaw that I will encounter difficulties on the part of the supporters of the Exarchate and the Exarchate itself, which maintained a policy of centralization in the church and in the schools: it appointed and dismissed the school teachers and the bishop's deputies. That is why IJ began to look for like-minded people from among teachers and citizens, whc favoured decentralization in religious and educational matters. Such people I found in the persons of Peter Poparsov2 and Dimiter Tsonev and, later, in Doctor Hristo Tatarchev,3 a school doctor. I did not rely on other colleagues born in Macedonia, as I knew their views and characters.

In May 1892 the chairman of the Soloun commune, the priest Ivan Madjarov, overtook me in the street and said to me: 'I am coming from the town hall. I went to ask the vali again to order the opening of the church in the village of Novo Selo (district of Soloun) where Exarchists and Patriarchists could go to church, even though the latter consists of two houses. This is what he replied: "Damn your schools and churches! Listen to me, priest! We shall put up with you for a year or two more. In two years' time, we shall leave you to come to grips with the Serbians and the Greeks and shall watch the show "' The cynical words of the vali Zehni Pasha made my blood boil, and I decided to start organizing the underground movement as soon as possible. I had already four supporters at my disposal: P. Poparsov, Dr. H. Tatarchev Dimiter Tsonev and H. Batandjiev.4 But I thought we were very few. Besides I wanted to have someone among us with greater authority and more experienced in conspiratorial work. I did not find such a person among the intellectuals in Soloun, nor in Macedonia in general. That is why I decided to go to Sofia during the holidays and find such a man among the emigrants.

In June 1892 I left for Sofia. There I met K. Shahov and disclosed my plans to him and he recommended Gotse Delchev,5 still a cadet, as a suitable and authoritative man. Shahov made an appointment in his printing house for the following Sunday, when cadets could leave school. When we met, I described the development of the national cause in Macedonia, told them about the threat of the valis and about the results of the Serbian propaganda and put this question to them: 'Isn't it time we founded a revolutionary organization in Macedonia?' Both answered in the affirmative. But they wanted me to describe to them what, in my opinion, the principle of the secret organization should be. I gave the following answer to their question:

1. The revolutionary organization should be founded in Macedonia and be active there so that the Greeks and Serbians should not consider it as a weapon of the Bulgarian government.
2. Its founders should be local citizens living in Macedonia.
3. The political slogan of the Organization should be autonomy of Macedonia.
4. The Organization should be secret and independent and should not establish contacts with the governments of neighbouring countries.
5. From the Macedonians in Bulgaria and the Bulgarian population it should ask only for moral and material support for the struggle of the Macedonian revolutionaries.

We discussed the five basic principles and agreed fully on all scores. As far as the authoritative person was concerned, after exchanging thoughts and opinions with Shahov and me, Gotse said: 'Look here, Mr. Hadjinikolov, so much time has passed, let another year go by. I will be graduating from the Military School next year and I have no intention of remaining an officer in the Bulgarian Army. I'll return to Macedonia, then I'll come to Soloun and we shall talk it over and, if there are possibilities, we'll form the Organization.' Gotse and I parted, expressing the hope of seeing each other in Soloun next summer.

„Илюстрация Илинден", София, 1936 г., кн. 1, стр. 4-5; (Magazine Ilustratsia Ilinden), Sofia, 1936, book I, pp. 4-5; the original is in Bulgarian

1 Ivan Hadjinikolov, born in Koukoush, one of the founders of the Revolutionary Committee in Soloun towards the end of 1898 (IMARO) and a member of the Central Committee of the Internal Organization.

2 Peter Poparsov (1872-1941), bom in the village of Bogomila, district of Veles, one of the founders of the Revolutionary Committee in Soloun towards the end of 1893. Author of the first Statute of the Organization.

3 Dr Hristo Tatarchev, born in Resen, one of the founders of the Internal Revolutionary Organization and for many years Chairman of the Central Committee in Soloun, and afterwards its representative abroad in Sofia.

4 H. Batandjiev, one of the founders of the Revolutionary Committee in Soloun towards the end of 1893.

5 Gotse Delchev (1872-1903), born in Koukoush, one of the founders and leaders of the IMARO. Towards the end of 1896 representative abroad in Sofia of the Organization, later a member of the Central Committee and chief organizer and leader of the armed forces of the Revolutionary Organization.

http://www.kroraina.com/knigi/en/ban/ls1.html#34

[Crn Volk]

Ever heard of Switzerland in the Balkans?

For the most of its existence IMRO was autonomist - they advocated an independent Macedonia (with the majority expecting it to, at some later time, unite with Bulgaria and the minority- not) and also were open to members from all ethnic groups in the geographical region of Macedonia- Bulgarians, Albanians, Turks, Vlachs, Serbs, Greeks, Jews, Gypsies hence Macedonia for the Macedonians(regardless of ethnic affiliation).

This was a Mihailovist concept, favoured by many shiptars today. It makes it easier to dismember Macedonia later on, once cantons have been established.

[morski]

This was a Mihailovist concept, favoured by many shiptars today. It makes it easier to dismember Macedonia later on, once cantons have been established.

Exactly. "Your" revolutionaries and prerodbenici never ever intended for the monster FYROM to be created. They wanted an autonomous or cantonized Macedonia so that it would easily be incorporated into Bulgaria some day.

[Crn Volk]

Exactly. "Your" revolutionaries and prerodbenici never ever intended for the monster FYROM to be created. They wanted an autonomous or cantonized Macedonia so that it would easily be incorporated into Bulgaria some day.

Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimitrija_%C4%8Cupovski

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_Literary_Society

http://www.unet.com.mk/mian/2.htm

DIMITRIJA CHUPOVSKI: THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE WITHIN THE BORDERS OF MACEDONIA ARE THE MACEDONIANS!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Cupovski%2C_Dimov_i_Konstantinovic.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/%C4%8Cupovski_na_plo%C5%A1tad.JPG/401px-%C4%8Cupovski_na_plo%C5%A1tad.JPG

[пустиняк]

However after that he continued his education in Belgrade and Saint Petersburg. By the replacement of the Bulgarian Exarchate bishop of Skopje, when the Serbs managed to get a Serbian bishop with the backing of the Russians in 1901-1902, he supported the Serbo-Russian side. The pro-Bulgarian Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (IMRO) revolutionary Hristo Shaldev, who lived during 1899 - 1903 in St. Petersburg described him also as sharing pro-Serbian and pro-Russian views.[1] When in 1905 Čupovski tried to organize a pan-Macedonian conference in Veles, he was expelled from the town by a local pro-Bulgarian chief of IMRO Ivan Naumov Alyabaka.[2]

No Serbia no Macedonian nation the simple truth :thumb001:

[Crn Volk]

No Serbia no Macedonian nation the simple truth :thumb001:


Serbia's involvement in the revival of the Bulgarian nation....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paisius_of_Hilendar

Paisius was born in the Samokov eparchy of the time, probably in the town of Bansko.[2] He established himself in the Hilandar monastery on Mount Athos in 1745, where he was later a hieromonk and deputy-abbot. Collecting materials for two years through hard work and even visiting the lands of the Germans, he finished his Istoriya Slavyanobolgarskaya in 1762 in the Zograf Monastery. The book was the first attempt to write a complete history of Bulgaria and attempted to awake and strengthen Bulgarian national consciousnesses

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilandar

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/Hilan2.jpg/250px-Hilan2.jpg

Hilandar Monastery (Greek: Μονή Χιλανδαρίου, Serbian: Манастир Хиландар, pronounced [xilǎndaːr]) is a Serbian Orthodox monastery on Mount Athos in Greece. It was founded in 1198 by the first Serbian Archbishop Saint Sava and his father, Grand Prince Stefan Nemanja (who later became a monk there, taking the monastic name of "Simeon") of the medieval Serbian principality of Raška (Rascia). The Mother of God through her Icon of Three Hands (Trojeručica), is considered the abbess

[morski]

Serbia's involvement in the revival of the Bulgarian nation....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paisius_of_Hilendar

Paisius was born in the Samokov eparchy of the time, probably in the town of Bansko.[2] He established himself in the Hilandar monastery on Mount Athos in 1745, where he was later a hieromonk and deputy-abbot. Collecting materials for two years through hard work and even visiting the lands of the Germans, he finished his Istoriya Slavyanobolgarskaya in 1762 in the Zograf Monastery. The book was the first attempt to write a complete history of Bulgaria and attempted to awake and strengthen Bulgarian national consciousnesses

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilandar

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/Hilan2.jpg/250px-Hilan2.jpg

Hilandar Monastery (Greek: Μονή Χιλανδαρίου, Serbian: Манастир Хиландар, pronounced [xilǎndaːr]) is a Serbian Orthodox monastery on Mount Athos in Greece. It was founded in 1198 by the first Serbian Archbishop Saint Sava and his father, Grand Prince Stefan Nemanja (who later became a monk there, taking the monastic name of "Simeon") of the medieval Serbian principality of Raška (Rascia). The Mother of God through her Icon of Three Hands (Trojeručica), is considered the abbess


Yep, sure. We acknowledge this fact and I even thanked the Serbs for it in the thread they created in memory of the monastery.:thumb001:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=750734&postcount=3

[Crn Volk]

Yep, sure. We acknowledge this fact and I even thanked the Serbs for it in the thread they created in memory of the monastery.:thumb001:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=750734&postcount=3

That's good. Then don't get upset about any Serb or Croat involvement in the national revival of the Macedonian people.

[morski]

That's good. Then don't get upset about any Serb or Croat involvement in the national revival of the Bulgarian people.

I'm not.

:p

[Crn Volk]

I'm not.

:p

Macedonian people

[morski]

Macedonian people

No such thing.

[Crn Volk]

No such thing.

Not according to Bulgars and Greeks, but everywhere else, yes.

[Romanion]

Its really pointless to dispute if there are a group of people who call themselves Macedonians or not. They are here and people need to get used to it. Where there is room for discussion is where did the modern macedonian ethogenises emerge and such.

For me, with my learning of Metadijo-Cento on this forum, that is the first solid piece of evidence that a seperate "Macedonism" started and was actively taught in schools.

Before him, there were pletny of ideas of what could happen to this region and its people, and its never really went according to "plan" in the Bulgarian perspective. Does that mean these people were not Bulgarians? hard to say because ideas about nationality were not important to the slavo-phones in the early 20th century Macedonia. Religion was a big issue, and one could aruge that religion did dictate nationality during this period, and it wouldn't be wrong. To the Greeks during the Balkan War, the slavo-phone Exarchates were Bulgarians, and would be considered as such.

Threads like these are really ironic though because Bulgarians and Macedonians probably are the closest people to each other than the rest of the balkan nations.

[Crn Volk]

Its really pointless to dispute if there are a group of people who call themselves Macedonians or not. They are here and people need to get used to it. Where there is room for discussion is where did the modern macedonian ethogenises emerge and such.

For me, with my learning of Metadijo-Cento on this forum, that is the first solid piece of evidence that a seperate "Macedonism" started and was actively taught in schools.

Before him, there were pletny of ideas of what could happen to this region and its people, and its never really went according to "plan" in the Bulgarian perspective. Does that mean these people were not Bulgarians? hard to say because ideas about nationality were not important to the slavo-phones in the early 20th century Macedonia. Religion was a big issue, and one could aruge that religion did dictate nationality during this period, and it wouldn't be wrong. To the Greeks during the Balkan War, the slavo-phone Exarchates were Bulgarians, and would be considered as such.

Threads like these are really ironic though because Bulgarians and Macedonians probably are the closest people to each other than the rest of the balkan nations.

Your approach is correct. The Macedonian nation is a reality today, as is the Macedonian language and state. To try and negate the existence of some 3-4 million people worldwide is ridiculous. Sure, we can debate the origins of the Macedonians and history etc., but to deny our existence today is just plain stupid.

[Kanuni]

Your approach is correct. The Macedonian nation is a reality today, as is the Macedonian language and state. To try and negate the existence of some 3-4 million people worldwide is ridiculous. Sure, we can debate the origins of the Macedonians and history etc., but to deny our existence today is just plain stupid.

Your language is just a Western Bulgarian dialect and your nation just Bulgarians mixed with Vlachs and Serbs.This is a fact.

[Crn Volk]

Your language is just a Western Bulgarian dialect and your nation just Bulgarians mixed with Vlachs and Serbs.This is a fact.

And the albanian nation was created by the Austrians to minimise Serb and Greek influence in the Balkans. Your language was created in the 20th century.

[Onur]

Most Macedonians (including me) in the Northern part of the country have Serbian ancestry, whether they know/admit it or not. And around 50% of the refugees that escaped from Greece during their civil war 60-70 years ago and moved here are actually Vlachs, and a LOT of them assimilated and intermarried with the Macedonians because they have the same religion (I also have Vlach ancestry)
Is it different for any other Balkan country?

This is not something specific to Macedonia. All the Balkan countries are like that, ethnic mix of the different people. For example, we have Greek far-rightists with Turkish or Albanian speaking grandparents. And we have a leader of a far-rightist party in Bulgaria named Karakachanov. Karakachans are Vlach but nevertheless, Greeks says that they are the most ancient hellenic tribe. Karakachanov in Bulgaria claims that he is the most purest of all Bulgarians tough, and the young supporters of this Bulgarian party carrying banners with medieval Turkic tamgas/signs but they hate from Turks at the same time.

I can continue to count absurdities like that for all the Balkan countries...
So, you can be sure that all other Balkan countries are as much as heterogeneous as Macedonian people and this is not something to be ashamed of. Don't forget that there was no borders in whole Balkans for ~600 years.

[morski]

Is it different for any other Balkan country?

This is not something specific to Macedonia. All the Balkan countries are like that, ethnic mix of the different people. For example, we have Greek far-rightists with Turkish or Albanian speaking grandparents. And we have a leader of a far-rightist party in Bulgaria named Karakachanov. Karakachans are Vlach but nevertheless, Greeks says that they are the most ancient hellenic tribe. Karakachanov in Bulgaria claims that he is the most purest of all Bulgarians tough, and the young supporters of this Bulgarian party carrying banners with medieval Turkic tamgas/signs but they hate from Turks at the same time.

I can continue to count absurdities like that for all the Balkan countries...
So, you can be sure that all other Balkan countries are as much as heterogeneous as Macedonian people and this is not something to be ashamed of. Don't forget that there was no borders in whole Balkans for ~600 years.

Karakatchanov's surname doesn't necessarily imply Karakatchani origin.

[Onur]

Karakatchanov's surname doesn't necessarily imply Karakatchani origin.
Then what it implies?

Karakachans were pastoral nomads, wandering between Thrace, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, staying at one spot during summers, moving to other in winters during Ottoman era.

There are Karakachans in all over Balkans, in Turkey too. You will see the ones in Turkey if you search for a surname "Karakaçan" on facebook. The word "Kara kaçan" is Turkish already, meaning "black wanderers, deserters. Maybe "black" because they were wearing black cloths.


Whats the connection between all these people with "Karakachan" surnames in all over Balkans and turkey? Whats your opinion about this?

[morski]

Then what it implies?

Karakachans were pastoral nomads, wandering between Thrace, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, staying at one spot during summers, moving to other in winters during Ottoman era.

There are Karakachans in all over Balkans, in Turkey too. You will see the ones in Turkey if you search for a surname "Karakaçan" on facebook. The word "Kara kaçan" is Turkish already, meaning "black wanderers, deserters. Maybe "black" because they were wearing black cloths.


Whats the connection between all these people with "Karakachan" surnames in all over Balkans and turkey? Whats your opinion about this?

There are a lot of people with the surname Yurukov in Bulgaria for example and they have nothing to do with the Yuruks. They are Bulgarian by ethnicity- Orthodox Christians speaking Bulgarian. Also people with the surname Vlahov, Srbinov, Madzharov...
Another example is the surname Arnaudov. Arnaut means Albanian, but the people with this surname are Bulgarians from Macedonia and Albania who when after migrating inwards in the ethnic Bulgarian teritory were called by the locals Arnauti... simple as that. There can be a lot of reasons for such surnames.

[Onur]

There are a lot of people with the surname Yurukov in Bulgaria for example and they have nothing to do with the Yuruks. They are Bulgarian by ethnicity- Orthodox Christians speaking Bulgarian. Also people with the surname Vlahov, Srbinov, Madzharov...
Another example is the surname Arnaudov. Arnaut means Albanian, but the people with this surname are Bulgarians from Macedonia and Albania who when after migrating inwards in the ethnic Bulgarian teritory were called by the locals Arnauti... simple as that. There can be a lot of reasons for such surnames.
You might be right for some but we cant be sure if thats the case for all the people with these kind of surnames in whole Balkans.

Bulgarian minister Bozhidar Dimitrov also called Turkish speaking Gagauzs as "true Bulgarians" last year and probably gave Bulgarian passports to 10.000s Gagauzs from Moldova in the last two years. Already, there was more than 100.000 native Gagauzs in Bulgaria (mostly around Varna), shown in the censuses between 1890-1940 but most of them has been assimilated anymore. These people`s mothertongue is Turkish and they are Turks for 1000 years but christianized by Byzantines. Now they are pure ethnic Bulgarians anymore?

I asked my brother`s wife in Bulgaria about them, she told me that they are still speaking Turkish and she sees some of them in Sofia but they are mostly hesitant to speak Turkish in public for not being branded as "Turks" and not to be discriminated among Bulgarian christians.

[Kanuni]

You might be right for some but we cant be sure if thats the case for all the people with these kind of surnames in whole Balkans.

Bulgarian minister Bozhidar Dimitrov also called Turkish speaking Gagauzs as "true Bulgarians" last year and probably gave Bulgarian passports to 10.000s Gagauzs from Moldova in the last two years. Already, there was more than 100.000 native Gagauzs in Bulgaria (mostly around Varna), shown in the censuses between 1890-1940 but most of them has been assimilated anymore. These people`s mothertongue is Turkish and they are Turks for 1000 years but christianized by Byzantines. Now they are pure ethnic Bulgarians anymore?

I asked my brother`s wife in Bulgaria about them, she told me that they are still speaking Turkish and she sees some of them in Sofia but they are mostly hesitant to speak Turkish in public for not being branded as "Turks" and not to be discriminated among Bulgarian christians.

Turks==Central Asian Mongoloids
Bulgarian DNA==No Central Asian traits

result=>No Turkics in Bulgaria

Enough said.

[morski]

You might be right for some but we cant be sure if thats the case for all the people with these kind of surnames in whole Balkans.

Bulgarian minister Bozhidar Dimitrov also called Turkish speaking Gagauzs as "true Bulgarians" last year and probably gave Bulgarian passports to 10.000s Gagauzs from Moldova in the last two years. Already, there was more than 100.000 native Gagauzs in Bulgaria (mostly around Varna), shown in the censuses between 1890-1940 but most of them has been assimilated anymore. These people`s mothertongue is Turkish and they are Turks for 1000 years but christianized by Byzantines. Now they are pure ethnic Bulgarians anymore?

I asked my brother`s wife in Bulgaria about them, she told me that they are still speaking Turkish and she sees some of them in Sofia but they are mostly hesitant to speak Turkish in public for not being branded as "Turks" and not to be discriminated among Bulgarian christians.

There are 300 000 Pomaks in Turkey and they still speak Bulgarian. What do we do with them, huh?:rolleyes:

[Onur]

There are 300 000 Pomaks in Turkey and they still speak Bulgarian. What do we do with them, huh?:rolleyes:
Whatever you like or can.

The difference is no one calls Pomaks as "True Turks" here or no one curse them just because they speak Bulgarian unlike you do to Gagauzs of Bulgaria. This is same for the Bosnians or Albanians in Turkey too. They are living here without any problem or any pressure.

Ohh about our conversation in the other thread;
I know that Pomaks are speaking the older form of Bulgarian, without the Russification effect of post 1878 as in your current form of Bulgarian. They use more Turkish words and i read that there are more Turkic words in their language came from Bulgar era.

[morski]

Whatever you like or can.

The difference is no one calls Pomaks as "True Turks" here or no one curse them just because they speak Bulgarian unlike you do to Gagauzs of Bulgaria. This is same for the Bosnians or Albanians in Turkey too. They are living here without any problem or any pressure.

Ohh about our conversation in the other thread;
I know that Pomaks are speaking the older form of Bulgarian, without the Russification effect of post 1878 as in your current form of Bulgarian. They use more Turkish words and i read that there are more Turkic words in their language came from Bulgar era.


Gagauzes call themselves asli Bulgar.

Pomaks use more Turkish words cause they lack instruction in standard Bulgarian.

You are full of shite.

Good bye.

[Hayalet]

Gagauzes call themselves asli Bulgar.
Wouldn't that put them in a geometrically symmetrical position to Onur here who is accused of being a confused Pomak every now and then by posters from the Balkans?

[morski]

Wouldn't that put them in a geometrically symmetrical position to Onur here who is accused of being a confused Pomak every now and then by posters from the Balkans?

Yes. I personally do not care what the guy is or thinks he is. He has a clear Turkish agenda so it's irrelevant.

[Onur]

Wouldn't that put them in a geometrically symmetrical position to Onur here who is accused of being a confused Pomak every now and then by posters from the Balkans?
Yes Altay and one more thing;
He said that Gagauzs calls themselves as "Asli Bulgar". This is Turkish, meaning "True, original Bulgars". Morski agrees with that, so, by saying that, he also confirms the fact that "original Bulgars" was speaking turkish :)

[Hayalet]

Yes Altay and one more thing;
He said that Gagauzs calls themselves as "Asli Bulgar". This is Turkish, meaning "True, original Bulgars". Morski agrees with that, so, by saying that, he also confirms the fact that "original Bulgars" was speaking turkish :)
Well, the word, "Bulgar" is used for both ancient Bulgars and modern Bulgarians in Turkish, I expect this is so in Gagauz too. In any event, the Gagauz aren't the ancient Bulgars and neither did the ancient Bulgars speak "Turkish".

Anyway, in case it wasn't clear I was pointing out the parallelism in an hypothetical assimilation of the Gagauz, who are Turks with the peculiarity of Orthodox Christian faith, into regular Bulgarians and that of Pomaks, who are basically Muslim Bulgarians, into regular Turks. Except, of course, I don't really know if Onur has anything to do with Pomaks.

[Onur]

Well, the word, "Bulgar" is used for both ancient Bulgars and modern Bulgarians in Turkish, I expect this is so in Gagauz too. In any event, the Gagauz aren't the ancient Bulgars and neither did the ancient Bulgars speak "Turkish".
I know who are Gagauz people. They migrated to Varna region with the permission of Byzantine emperor after Mongol army destroyed Seljuk state and they are early Anatolian Turkish people dates back to 13th century.

Ofc they have no relation with early Bulgars, this is just a stupid claim of Bulgarians for separating them from their Turkish identity because like i said, there was around ~140.000 self-declared Turkish speaking Gagauz in Bulgaria in 1890 census and all of a sudden, Gagauz population dropped zero after WW-2, they all became proudly slavic commie Bulgarians.

I meant "common Turkic" for the language of early Bulgars, not Turkish.


Anyway, in case it wasn't clear I was pointing out the parallelism in an hypothetical assimilation of the Gagauz, who are Turks with the peculiarity of Orthodox Christian faith, into regular Bulgarians and that of Pomaks, who are basically Muslim Bulgarians, into regular Turks. Except, of course, I don't really know if Onur has anything to do with Pomaks.
I have no relation with the Pomaks.

It`s just i wrote where my ancestors came from on the left side below my avatar and these stupid Bulgarians thinks like Petrich belongs to Bulgaria proper since antiquity !!! They don't even aware that Petrich became part of Bulgaria in 1913 and before that, half of it`s population was Turks for at least ~500 years. As you can guess, while they keep commemorating in their churches for few Bulgarian casualties in 1877, but they are not even aware that they they killed 250.000 Pomaks and Turks, forcefully expelled out more than million of them to Turkey in 1877. Nobody reminds that to them in Bulgaria, so they cant even imagine that at least half of the population in current Bulgarian lands was populated with Turks during those days.

Also, i posted my picture here and because they think like all the Turks should look like Genghis Khan and obviously i am not looking like that, so they keep calling me "Pomak". Just don't mind them.

[morski]

I know who are Gagauz people. They migrated to Varna region with the permission of Byzantine emperor after Mongol army destroyed Seljuk state and they are early Anatolian Turkish people dates back to 13th century.

Ofc they have no relation with early Bulgars, this is just a stupid claim of Bulgarians for separating them from their Turkish identity because like i said, there was around ~140.000 self-declared Turkish speaking Gagauz in Bulgaria in 1890 census and all of a sudden, Gagauz population dropped zero after WW-2, they all became proudly slavic commie Bulgarians.

I meant "common Turkic" for the language of early Bulgars, not Turkish.


I have no relation with the Pomaks.

It`s just i wrote where my ancestors came from on the left side below my avatar and these stupid Bulgarians thinks like Petrich belongs to Bulgaria proper since antiquity !!! They don't even aware that Petrich became part of Bulgaria in 1913 and before that, half of it`s population was Turks for at least ~500 years. As you can guess, while they keep commemorating in their churches for few Bulgarian casualties in 1877, but they are not even aware that they they killed 250.000 Pomaks and Turks, forcefully expelled out more than million of them to Turkey in 1877. Nobody reminds that to them in Bulgaria, so they cant even imagine that at least half of the population in current Bulgarian lands was populated with Turks during those days.

Also, i posted my picture here and because they think like all the Turks should look like Genghis Khan and obviously i am not looking like that, so they keep calling me "Pomak". Just don't mind them.

You are so full of shite it's unreal.:eek:

First you said there were 100 000 Gagauzes now you claim 140 000.:rolleyes:

Now I don't have the time to bother myself with finding sources for the specific year you point to, but a quick search in Wiki says that in the 1905 census there were 10,175 Gagauz people in Bulgaria.

Sod off back to the shithole you crawled out of! Turks belong to ASIA, you have no place anywhere in Europe. We should have gotten over Macedonia and kick your filthy animal asses out of Constantinople in 1913 together with the Serbs and the Greeks...

[Europa]

I know who are Gagauz people. They migrated to Varna region with the permission of Byzantine emperor after Mongol army destroyed Seljuk state and they are early Anatolian Turkish people dates back to 13th century.

Ofc they have no relation with early Bulgars, this is just a stupid claim of Bulgarians for separating them from their Turkish identity because like i said, there was around ~140.000 self-declared Turkish speaking Gagauz in Bulgaria in 1890 census and all of a sudden, Gagauz population dropped zero after WW-2, they all became proudly slavic commie Bulgarians.

I meant "common Turkic" for the language of early Bulgars, not Turkish.


I have no relation with the Pomaks.

It`s just i wrote where my ancestors came from on the left side below my avatar and these stupid Bulgarians thinks like Petrich belongs to Bulgaria proper since antiquity !!! They don't even aware that Petrich became part of Bulgaria in 1913 and before that, half of it`s population was Turks for at least ~500 years. As you can guess, while they keep commemorating in their churches for few Bulgarian casualties in 1877, but they are not even aware that they they killed 250.000 Pomaks and Turks, forcefully expelled out more than million of them to Turkey in 1877. Nobody reminds that to them in Bulgaria, so they cant even imagine that at least half of the population in current Bulgarian lands was populated with Turks during those days.

Also, i posted my picture here and because they think like all the Turks should look like Genghis Khan and obviously i am not looking like that, so they keep calling me "Pomak". Just don't mind them.

You are full of shit

[Europa]

I know who are Gagauz people. They migrated to Varna region with the permission of Byzantine emperor after Mongol army destroyed Seljuk state and they are early Anatolian Turkish people dates back to 13th century.

Ofc they have no relation with early Bulgars, this is just a stupid claim of Bulgarians for separating them from their Turkish identity because like i said, there was around ~140.000 self-declared Turkish speaking Gagauz in Bulgaria in 1890 census and all of a sudden, Gagauz population dropped zero after WW-2, they all became proudly slavic commie Bulgarians.

I meant "common Turkic" for the language of early Bulgars, not Turkish.


I have no relation with the Pomaks.

It`s just i wrote where my ancestors came from on the left side below my avatar and these stupid Bulgarians thinks like Petrich belongs to Bulgaria proper since antiquity !!! They don't even aware that Petrich became part of Bulgaria in 1913 and before that, half of it`s population was Turks for at least ~500 years. As you can guess, while they keep commemorating in their churches for few Bulgarian casualties in 1877, but they are not even aware that they they killed 250.000 Pomaks and Turks, forcefully expelled out more than million of them to Turkey in 1877. Nobody reminds that to them in Bulgaria, so they cant even imagine that at least half of the population in current Bulgarian lands was populated with Turks during those days.

Also, i posted my picture here and because they think like all the Turks should look like Genghis Khan and obviously i am not looking like that, so they keep calling me "Pomak". Just don't mind them.

How about you provide a proof about this nonsense..Here is what Wiki says:There's no info about the population of the Turks in Bulgaria in 1877(you can see they were a lot),but I hardly believe they were half of the total population.Closest year is 1880...25%Here are two maps from 1877 and 1870

[Europa]

[QUOTE=Onur;792113]


I meant "common Turkic" for the language of early Bulgars, not Turkish.

Show me a legal prove about this too,otherwise bugger off.:coffee:

[Kabul]

Use my original quote you sneaky little tartar;

"I am neither Serb, nor Srboman. In fact my family disliked both and resisted the royalist serbian rule in Macedonia. You just need to come to terms with the fact that we are not Bulgarians either."

My FYROManian friend, why is the word "Macedonia" in your avatar spelled "Македония" and not "Македониjа"? Did you forget the "language" (Bulgarian dialect) the Serbs made up for you and have now started using mainstream Bulgarian? :laugh:

If we are Tatars, then so are you. аңларга?

[Crn Volk]

My FYROManian friend, why is the word "Macedonia" in your avatar spelled "Македония" and not "Македониjа"? Did you forget the "language" (Bulgarian dialect) the Serbs made up for you and have now started using mainstream Bulgarian? :laugh:

If we are Tatars, then so are you. аңларга?

Not really, Kuber's horde was of mixed origin and only settled a small portion of Macedonia, being subsumed by the local Dragoviti Slavic tribe. It can be argued that the Gothic invasions had greater impact on Macedonian ethnogenesis, but that is another story. Unlike Bulgaria, Macedonia was not settled by Bulgars.