Why are Southern Europeans more Extraverted than Scandinavians

[ethnopluralist]

I have a question for members of this board that I've been pontificating for awhile. Why are Scandinavians, and Northern Germans notorious for being more reserved, while fellow Southern Europeans are known for being more gregarious? Empirically, I noticed this trend when I traveled in Europe on several occasions. I also happen to have relatives in Sweden and Norway, which my family keeps in contact with. Moreover, I had a German exchange student who was very aloof. When I was over in Italy and Spain, normal Italians and Spanish were not afraid to strike up a conversation, some of them didn't even know English all that well, but they made an effort. Also, when I was in Italy, I was engaged in a rather lengthy discussion with some Portuguese. During my conversation, I broached this very same topic with them, in which they seemed to think it had to do with the weather. They thought that people in colder climates were generally more reserved, while people in more temperate climates are more outgoing because it's always sunny. Anyways my question for you is, do you think it boils down to the climate or genetics?

[ethnopluralist]

Or, do you think I'm making sweeping generalizations?

[Peyrol]

I have a question for members of this board that I've been pontificating for awhile. Why are Scandinavians, and Northern Germans notorious for being more reserved, while fellow Southern Europeans are known for being more gregarious? Empirically, I noticed this trend when I traveled in Europe on several occasions. I also happen to have relatives in Sweden and Norway, which my family keeps in contact with. Moreover, I had a German exchange student who was very aloof. When I was over in Italy and Spain, normal Italians and Spanish were not afraid to strike up a conversation, some of them didn't even know English all that well, but they made an effort. Also, when I was in Italy, I was engaged in a rather lengthy discussion with some Portuguese. During my conversation, I broached this very same topic with them, in which they seemed to think it had to do with the weather. They thought that people in colder climates were generally more reserved, while people in more temperate climates are more outgoing because it's always sunny. Anyways my question for you is, do you think it boils down to the climate or genetics?

I try a simply exlpanation: the climate.

A sicilian, where there's sun 250 of 365 days/year, would be more "happy" than a person who live where rains 200 days/year and other days is foggy or cloudy.

Sun produce increasing of Vitamin D synthesis, which is converted in D3 by the body, and this element it's the key for the production if testosterone and some endorphin.

[Lábaru]

http://blog.internations.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Stereotypes-everywhere.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EdLVGq_DZj0/TdO8R7dGjNI/AAAAAAAAADU/vleGIxQUy38/s1600/Dont+Stereotype+Me.jpg

[Peyrol]

I note also inter-state variations.

Here in Italy, sicilians, calabrians, apulians and campanians (southerners) are known to be the "happiest", while piedmonteis, lombards and venetians (northerners) to be "closed and boring people".

[Gaztelu]

Or, do you think I'm making sweeping generalizations?

Yes, you are making sweeping generalizations.

[Damião de Góis]

Brazilians are much more open and talkative then we are. The difference is striking actually. I would say there is also a contrast between us and the spanish in that matter.

[Amapola]

Are they?.... I didn't find Castilians in deep Castilla more extrovert than the Welsh? It's totally subjective.

[Peyrol]

Are they?.... I didn't find Castilians in deep Castilla more extrovert than the Welsh? It's totally subjective.

I can assure you (by personal experience) that, for a very northern (skandinavian or baltid) person, the most shy and introverted spanish would be considered the most warm-hearted person on Earth :laugh:

[Amapola]

I can assure you (by personal experience) that, for a very northern (skandinavian or baltid) person, the most shy and introverted spanish would be considered the most warm-hearted person on Earth :laugh:

Castilians? Go to Zamora or Burgos, :)

[Comte Arnau]

Tribuno is right. It's true that inside Iberia there are very strong variations. But go and live in Sweden. I suddenly discovered I was more extroverted than I thought.

Danes shouldn't be considered as Scandos in this sense, though. My Dane would wish I were more extroverted, while I wish she was much more intro more often than not. :D

[Amapola]

My man is quite more extrovert than me, too.

[Richard]

Catholics are more extroverted than wasp and puritans,we dont feel no sense of guilt and we are also the descendents of carpe diem life style.

[gold_fenix]

Tribuno is right. It's true that inside Iberia there are very strong variations. But go and live in Sweden. I suddenly discovered I was more extroverted than I thought.

Danes shouldn't be considered as Scandos in this sense, though. My Dane would wish I were more extroverted, while I wish she was much more intro more often than not. :D

Danish are considered as the mediterranean of the North

[Styggnacke]

Tribuno is right. It's true that inside Iberia there are very strong variations. But go and live in Sweden. I suddenly discovered I was more extroverted than I thought.

Danes shouldn't be considered as Scandos in this sense, though. My Dane would wish I were more extroverted, while I wish she was much more intro more often than not. :D
Yes, Danes and Scanians are often seen as more continental, loud and extroverted in comparision to other Scandinavians.

[Incal]

I can assure you (by personal experience) that, for a very northern (skandinavian or baltid) person, the most shy and introverted spanish would be considered the most warm-hearted person on Earth :laugh:

And the most extroverted Finn would be considered autistic in Southern Italy lol.

[MandM]

i live in sweden and i can say for most part not all but most they are reservd, dont asky me why, dont even think they know it them selfs, is like they are not very family orianted ether, not all now but most of them. i know many parents that say oh cant wait that they tur 18 so the can move out, or my swedish friends who dont understand why i go to my family atleast 4 times a week, many of them go to visit there parents maby one a month, and the culd live very closely to ech other, now have in minde not ALL are like this but many are.

[GeistFaust]

Catholics are more extroverted than wasp and puritans,we dont feel no sense of guilt and we are also the descendents of carpe diem life style.


This is very true, and may I commend you on this statement. A lot of the differences in attitudes and behaviors between the South and North could be correlated with their religious beliefs. I think some of it has to do with genetic and environmental orientation, which brought about these beliefs, but these beliefs in their own way influence the South and North.


The Northern religious mentality was more emphasized on progression, individual advancement, and work ethic. The Southern religious mentality centered more on a laxed spirit, family/communal spirit, and building strong relationships on faith. The Catholic faith is very Southern in its mentality, which means its quite idealized its desires/demands.


Southern Germans are differentiated with North Germans on the basis of their attitudes and behaviors. Southern Germans are Catholics and North Germans are Lutherans. This could have something to do with it in coincidence with the environmental and genetic differences between the South and North.


I find the correlations to be quite interesting in retrospect, and think that the religious beliefs of a certain region has influenced its attitudes and behaviors. I think these religious beliefs have been partially influenced by genetic and environmental conditions. That said I believe the consequence or event of some particular mechanism or operative mode of existence can take on a form of autonomy in its own right from which new consequences and effects arise.


I have seen depictions in paintings of the Protestant part of a town all going off to work in an organized and structured manner. The Catholic side were busy partying and celebrating to their heart's delight.:D


I personally think the more Puriticanal mentality is more qualified and professional like, because it takes a stoic approach to life than some carefree and poorly identified perspective. That is all my own subjective opinion, and the way I see things based off my own experience of life.

[somerled]

I've read a few studies pointing out a possible correlation between de-pigmentation and shyness. Here’s one that I quickly googled
http://www.shyness.com/encyclopedia.html
Fairly long winded but the relevant part is
"Other biological correlates are blue eye colour with blond hair and pale skin, and allergies, especially hay fever, which have been reported more frequently in families of inhibited children and in the most introverted and fearful of a sample of college undergraduates."

[Bardamu]

:)
Catholics are more extroverted than wasp and puritans,we dont feel no sense of guilt and we are also the descendents of carpe diem life style.


I don't think it is religiously oriented these differences, as there are plenty of reserved Catholics in northern climes. It is the genes bred in northern climes. Something about preparing for harsh winters tolerates no fools.

[askra]

it's only a generalization, there are dozens of ethnicities in South Europe with totally different cultures, some very extroverted, other ones very introverted.

[Comte Arnau]

I don't see über-Catholic Poles as a sample of extroverted behaviour, to be frank. While in the South, though Catholic in tradition, is full with territories in France, Iberia and Italy which kind of adopt a rather Protestant look to life in many aspects.

Anyway, the fact of most of Europe being now secular proves that to be just wrong.

[Nairi]

I don't think religion plays any role here, sunny South Caucasus people being Christian and Muslim are much more open than reserved (compared to us) people of Russia,Estonia,Latvia,Lithiania. We put it down to climate.

[Bardamu]

I don't think religion plays any role here, sunny South Caucasus people being Christian and Muslim are much more open than reserved (compared to us) people of Russia,Estonia,Latvia,Lithiania. We put it down to climate.

Yes, but it is the genes bred by the climate, imo.

[Nairi]

Yes, but it is the genes bred by the climate, imo.

Maybe.When my brother visited Italy for the first time he said he felt he was still in Armenia. He asked a man for a direction and everyone around stopped to help him, people would scream out of the buildings trying to help, a man who was washing his car came a short distance to show the road, it is exactly the same in Armenia.
In Moscow 4 out of 5 people will walk faster and turn their heads in other direction when see someone approaching them with question. I would spend around 10 minutes waiting for a person with an intellectual, intelligent looks to ask a question knowing such person will not refuse to help with a simple reply.

[Damião de Góis]

Maybe.When my brother visited Italy for the first time he said he felt he was still in Armenia. He asked a man for a direction and everyone around stopped to help him, people would scream out of the buildings trying to help, a man who was washing his car came a shirt distance to show the road, it is exactly the same in Armenia.
In Moscow 4 out of 5 people will walk faster and turn their heads in other direction when see someone approaching them with question. I would spend around 10 minutes waiting for a person with an intellectual, intelligent looks to ask the question knowing such person will not refuse to help with a simple reply.

In Amsterdam everyone was super nice and friendly when i asked for directions. And i had to ask a lot of people...

[Nairi]

In Amsterdam everyone was super nice and friendly when i asked for directions. And i had to ask a lot of people...

Maybe Amsterdam doesn't get that cold in winters like Moscow does? And Maybe Amsterdam's winters don't last more than 3 months like it is in Moscow?

[billErobreren]

Brazilians are much more open and talkative then we are. The difference is striking actually. I would say there is also a contrast between us and the spanish in that matter.

^I can agree with that, the Portuguese mostly keep to themselves & mind their own business but some idiots don't even bother to separate them from other Southerners whom they stereotyped as being loud or hot tempered :....

[Comte Arnau]

In Amsterdam everyone was super nice and friendly when i asked for directions. And i had to ask a lot of people...

That is totally right. The Dutch are very Northern and quite extroverted at the same time. Something just does not work in the theory. :D

[Damião de Góis]

Maybe Amsterdam doesn't get that cold in winters like Moscow does? And Maybe Amsterdam's winters don't last more than 3 months like it is in Moscow?

Amsterdam is not Moscow. Nowhere in Europe is like Moscow when it comes to winters... still, Amsterdam is cold enough. It was under 10ºC during the day in April when i visited and i think ice skating is popular when the canals freeze in winter :p

[Incal]

In Amsterdam everyone was super nice and friendly when i asked for directions. And i had to ask a lot of people...

It seems they learned something from spanish occupation lol.

[Bardamu]

Maybe.When my brother visited Italy for the first time he said he felt he was still in Armenia. He asked a man for a direction and everyone around stopped to help him, people would scream out of the buildings trying to help, a man who was washing his car came a short distance to show the road, it is exactly the same in Armenia.
In Moscow 4 out of 5 people will walk faster and turn their heads in other direction when see someone approaching them with question. I would spend around 10 minutes waiting for a person with an intellectual, intelligent looks to ask a question knowing such person will not refuse to help with a simple reply.

Yes, I've heard stories of Italian graciousness from friends who have visited. They loved Italy.

[2Cool]

^I can agree with that, the Portuguese mostly keep to themselves & mind their own business but some idiots don't even bother to separate them from other Southerners whom they stereotyped as being loud or hot tempered :....

From my experience...Portuguese people are loud and hot tempered.

[Riki]

^I can agree with that, the Portuguese mostly keep to themselves & mind their own business but some idiots don't even bother to separate them from other Southerners whom they stereotyped as being loud or hot tempered :....

Austerity in Greece.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSaniHfvlDYZMT4g60gpW5zf_9_4GNQn L6mrVNZXkxu43ak1jlV


Meanwhile in Austerity Portugal.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSl_qS2GhMpSX-c3Eccc-qvwKpu3y2KHw03G3DUNz3AijoOD_HZ

The differences are much.

[RagnarLodbrok666]

Nothing wrong with a little variation in levels of personality traits among ethnicities. The higher level of extravertedness in mediterreans seems to be a very helpful trait.

[Comte Arnau]

Frankly, I can't imagine any Southerner who happened to get his/her back 'beered' the way Merkel's back did reacting the way she did. Unglaublich, unthinkable!!! :D

7Nn7-sbVlqs

[Riki]

Frankly, I can't imagine any Southerner who happened to get his/her back 'beered' the way Merkel's back did reacting the way she did. Unglaublich, unthinkable!!! :D

7Nn7-sbVlqs

Primordial thought would be.

What a waste of good beer.And then "what the F.... you're doing.?"

But she goes "Cheers".:)

[Riki]

From my experience...Portuguese people are loud and hot tempered.


True ,but for a foreigner to see how loud we can get,they have first to win our trust(Introvert).
With the hot temperament.I think we don't have a between or a balance per say.We can be very calm and not easy to be upset(Unless the discussion its football:))But once upset we can get very nasty.

[askra]

Maybe.When my brother visited Italy for the first time he said he felt he was still in Armenia. He asked a man for a direction and everyone around stopped to help him, people would scream out of the buildings trying to help, a man who was washing his car came a short distance to show the road, it is exactly the same in Armenia.
In Moscow 4 out of 5 people will walk faster and turn their heads in other direction when see someone approaching them with question. I would spend around 10 minutes waiting for a person with an intellectual, intelligent looks to ask a question knowing such person will not refuse to help with a simple reply.

the first time i went in UK, i was 10, and i was with my parents (they don't speak english because they learnt french at school) and i remember how helpful was local people there, for example if we didn't understand something they gave us all infos, and sometimes they even contacted an italian or french speaking man to help us.
Russians instead are much more reserved and cold, mainly people in uniform like policemen that can look like discourteous, customs agents at the airports scared me (lol), and they don't smile to the strangers, i think it is a consequence of years of soviet dictatorship , they look very strict, but my russian guide was kind and nice.

[Nairi]

the first time i went in UK, i was 10, and i was with my parents (they don't speak english because they learnt french at school) and i remember how helpful was local people there, for example if we didn't understand something they gave us all infos, and sometimes they even contacted an italian or french speaking man to help us.

I fully agree.In our Soviet books sent from Moscow we learnt how cold offish,reserved English people are and I experienced totally opposite living in England, they turned up to be very and very helpful, smiley, friendly people.


Russians instead are much more reserved and cold, mainly people in uniform like policemen that can look like discourteous, customs agents at the airports scared me (lol), and they don't smile to the strangers, i think it is a consequence of years of soviet dictatorship , they look very strict, but my russian guide was kind and nice.

We are also Soviet brought up people and also have many people who still can't kill those Soviet habits in themselves but in general very different from Russians and closer to Southern Euroeans in behaviour, temper ...

But not smiling to strangers is probably indeed a Soviet thing, we also don't have it in general.

[Peyrol]

In Amsterdam everyone was super nice and friendly when i asked for directions. And i had to ask a lot of people...

In Amsterdam? In Amsterdam i met the most closed-minded people of my entire life, even more closed than in Stockholm or Reijkyavik.

[Waidewut]

The North-South geographical theory is a flaw. For example Russians, who are from the same geographical longitude and from even colder climate, are much more extroverted than my fellow Latvians.
A foreigner, who can't distinguish the Latvian language from the Russian language, could easily notice the difference between Russians and Latvians, because a Russian would act far more loudly and be far more open than a Latvian.
This also goes with emotionality, because a Russian could shout about killing you at one moment and calling you "sunshine" 10 minutes later.

[Peyrol]

The North-South geographical theory is a flaw. For example Russians, who are from the same geographical longitude and from even colder climate, are much more extroverted than my fellow Latvians.
A foreigner, who can't distinguish the Latvian language from the Russian language, could easily notice the difference between Russians and Latvians, because a Russian would act far more loudly and be far more open than a Latvian.
This also goes with emotionality, because a Russian could shout about killing you at one moment and calling you "sunshine" 10 minutes later.

Maybe because they're alcool addicted? :laugh:

Seriously, the climate influence is a real fact, but as you said, the cultural one is also very important in the collective behaviors.

[Amapola]

Maybe because they're alcool addicted? :laugh:

Seriously, the climate influence is a real fact, but as you said, the cultural one is also very important in the collective behaviors.

I don't think that a person that had to stay in because it's freezing outside is going to have the same attitude like a person that is going to spend the day under the sunshine, socializing, with their families, etc....

http://www.fondosok.com/thumbs/56_2.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-KUdxmLjX_I/TUCfhTU1g6I/AAAAAAAAAVM/XyNjcgBDVCA/s1600/DSC02382.JPG

versus...
http://hotelanacapri.com/upload/file/gastronomia-terrazas2.jpg
http://elviajero.elpais.com/recorte/20060527elpviavje_2/SCO250/Ies/Terraza_bar_tapas_Jai_Ca.jpg

I experience a feeling of rebirth everytime Spring comes.

[VedicViking]

I often go with genetics on these things. But on this one I’d do with climate.

Sunlight causes an increase in vitamin D, which in turn increases testosterone (which itself primes the dopaminergic system.) This is why Whites in sunnier climates tend to be more macho, outgoing, reward-seeking, right-wing and with a tendency to show-off.

Cold exposure, however, increases mental toughness – which in part will manifest as unemotionality or stoicism. This is because, as I understand it, cold tolerance and stress tolerance both rely primarily on the same system: the sympathetic nervous system (‘fight or flight’.) And research has both documented that cold and stress tolerance are highly correlated, and that cold exposure leads to an increase in mental toughness. Also, for probably genetic reasons, Northern Europeans are stronger than Southern Europeans so it all evens out, more or less. :thumb001:

[Hevneren]

Danes shouldn't be considered as Scandos in this sense, though.

This would be news to the Danes. ;)

[Foxy]

Except climate, I think it's the culture, a long culture with millennias of history. I have read the "Italian Galateo", the book of the etiquette that expresses the way Italians (but I think also the other romance peoples) are educated. In short this is what it says about the polite treatment of guests.


The guest must be put at ease and involved in conversation, but the host has to leave him his spaces and privacy, reserving him, when possible, an own room with an own bathroom, separated to the rest of the family.
While the guest remains in the house of his hosts, the hosts have to treat him/her as a family member: the guest will be present in all the meals with the family and involved in conversations. The host must be friendly and patient with his guest. The host will ask the guest if he has some preferences for what concerning the food or some allergy or things that he dislikes and will provide to avoid this latter in the menu.

About the behavour that the guest has to keep:

The guest will communicate his hosts the lenght of his permanence with punctuality before arriving. He will take presents for his hosts and their children. He will be discrete but present in the family life. He will offer to help his hosts in domestic works, he has to be friendly with the children and lively with the hosts. With the lady, he will be gallant and educate.
Do not sleep until late and avoid to go for the house in pijama or underwear.
It is elegant to send a message to the host to thank him for his hospitality in 8 days after the departure.

And about the right way to make conversations:

It is unpolite to make questions without a real interest in the answer, it is important to listen very well the answer. It is important to equilibrate the conversation, leaving enough space to others.

[Peyrol]

"Southern European" as whole attirude, btw, isn't a good category....alpine people (like in my region) are technically "southerners", but the attitude is very different from Malta, Crete or Calabria...

[Peyrol]

I don't think that a person that had to stay in because it's freezing outside is going to have the same attitude like a person that is going to spend the day under the sunshine, socializing, with their families, etc....

I experience a feeling of rebirth everytime Spring comes.

Me too. I'm very metereopatyc, i hate the time from november to first days of february :mad:

[Foxy]

I add that foreign guests rapresent an other step in hospitaly. We perceive as educated to make efforts to understand their needs and to communicate. If we didn't we would pass as extremely unpolite, rude and uncivil. So we try to speak in their language or English or a pidgin, whatever. The most important thing to avoid is to isolate/ignore them.

I think some northerns don't care that much about this.

[rhiannon]

It's bloody colder than a witches' tit in much of Scandinavia and Northern Europe half the time, thus, people don't spend as much time outdoors, and when they are outdoors, they're gonna be more covered up as a rule in effort to stay warm. All of these factors conspire together to render a more de facto antisocial and reserved environment.

In addition, while I have never lived in Europe, this same phenomenon has played itself out in my life because I moved from a place with a Mediterranean/Desert climate (Los Angeles) to a place of Northerly Latitude and climate (the Pacific Northwest). It seems, people in the LA area are also much more gregarious than the people up here as a rule. This became glaringly obvious for me while I spent one year living back in LA in 2000-2001.....I made friends everywhere! People were always willing to hang out and make plans for us to go out and do things. It was awesome:)

That doesn't happen here so much. Again, there is that climatological impact playing its role, I'm sure.

[Foxy]

"Southern European" as whole attirude, btw, isn't a good category....alpine people (like in my region) are technically "southerners", but the attitude is very different from Malta, Crete or Calabria...

I am sorry but here you are wrong for me. I think that all the Italians are good hosts and perceive as educated the same things.
I am sure that from Sicily to Piedmont every Italian would consider "unpolite" to exclude a guest, also if foreign, from the meals with the family or from conversations.

[Peyrol]

It's bloody colder than a witches' tit in much of Scandinavia and Northern Europe half the time, thus, people don't spend as much time outdoors, and when they are outdoors, they're gonna be more covered up as a rule in effort to stay warm. All of these factors conspire together to render a more de facto antisocial and reserved environment.

In addition, while I have never lived in Europe, this same phenomenon has played itself out in my life because I moved from a place with a Mediterranean/Desert climate (Los Angeles) to a place of Northerly Latitude and climate (the Pacific Northwest). It seems, people in LA area also much more gregarious than the people up here as a rule. This became glaringly obvious for me while I spent one year living back in LA in 2000-2001.....I made friends everywhere! People were always willing to hang out and make plans for us to go out and do things. It was awesome:)

That doesn't happen here so much. Again, there is that climatological impact playing its role, I'm sure.

You've to ask to your brothers how they feel in Uruguay, that has a very warm/hot climate for most part of the year.:p

[Peyrol]

I am sorry but here you are wrong for me. I think that all the Italians are good hosts and perceive as educated the same things.
I am sure that from Sicily to Piedmont every Italian would consider "unpolite" to exclude a guest, also if foreign, from the meals with the family or from conversations.

You ever been in a 100% piedmonteis city? Pure-blooded piedmonteis are very closed-mind people and they always accuse southerners or partially-blooded northerners (as i am) to have "bòntemp" (that mean to be always happy and extroverse also in situation where this isn't needed).

[rhiannon]

You've to ask to your brothers how they feel in Uruguay, that has a very warm/hot climate for most part of the year.:p

They LOVE it. Realize, however, from where we grew up (Los Angeles), from a Latitude perspective, Uruguay is of an equal southerly latitude to what Los Angeles is northerly speaking. Moreover, it is a coastal climate, much like the Malibu area we also grew up in as children.

The people in Uruguay are very warm and friendly by all accounts I've heard:)

[Peyrol]

They LOVE it. Realize, however, from where we grew up (Los Angeles), from a Latitude perspective, Uruguay is of an equal southerly latitude to what Los Angeles is northerly speaking. Moreover, it is a coastal climate, much like the Malibu area we also grew up in as children.

The people in Uruguay are very warm and friendly by all accounts I've heard:)

They are, i remember my permanence.

Often they're more extroverted also for a southern euro perspective, very happy population (remember also that 85% of them have both spanish and italian ancestors):D

[rhiannon]

They are, i remember my permanence.

Often they're more extroverted also for a southern euro perspective, very happy population (remember also that 85% of them have both spanish and italian ancestors):D

Yes, my sister-in-laws (both are related to each other) have both Spanish and Italian ancestry:) Their families treat my brothers like honored guests when they go down there. It is a very good atmosphere to grow up around, I would imagine:)

[Peyrol]

Yes, my sister-in-laws (both are related to each other) have both Spanish and Italian ancestry:) Their families treat my brothers like honored guests when they go down there. It is a very good atmosphere to grow up around, I would imagine:)

:eek:

Your brothers married two sisters?

:eek:

[rhiannon]

:eek:

Your brothers married two sisters?

:eek:

Pretty close. My one brother married the much younger sister to the woman who is the mother of my other brother's wife.

Thus, the women are Aunt and Niece, respectively....but they are only 7 years apart in age.

[Foxy]

Maybe.When my brother visited Italy for the first time he said he felt he was still in Armenia. He asked a man for a direction and everyone around stopped to help him, people would scream out of the buildings trying to help, a man who was washing his car came a short distance to show the road, it is exactly the same in Armenia.
In Moscow 4 out of 5 people will walk faster and turn their heads in other direction when see someone approaching them with question. I would spend around 10 minutes waiting for a person with an intellectual, intelligent looks to ask a question knowing such person will not refuse to help with a simple reply.

I don't believe that people screamed out of the windows to help him, honestly, unless he was finished in a small village where people have nothing to do during the day. Normal Italians work and are stressed and spend very few time behind the window.
And if it is for that, also while in Australia British people used to stop me to indicate the right direction or if I got lost and asked an info, if the other didn't know the answer, it was like a tragedy for him. Seriously or Aussies are polite or they adore to look touristic maps. But British are northerns as far as I know.

[Peyrol]

"Screming out of window" it's one of the hollywoodian stereotypes die hard :laugh:

[Äike]

It's the climate.

http://www.google.ee/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.luontokuva.org/media/lehti/nettijuttu/luhta/yon_kruunut/2_joulureposet_740.jpg&sa=X&ei=n_1ZT5WeDNSL4gTWoZGvDw&ved=0CAkQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNH89ORDA3PXZDtTU29olbHghZ9yoQ

[rhiannon]

It's the climate.

http://www.google.ee/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.luontokuva.org/media/lehti/nettijuttu/luhta/yon_kruunut/2_joulureposet_740.jpg&sa=X&ei=n_1ZT5WeDNSL4gTWoZGvDw&ved=0CAkQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNH89ORDA3PXZDtTU29olbHghZ9yoQ

Gorgeous place.

[mymy]

I scored 89% introvert... But in general yes, there are differences and it's probably due to climate. Because climate also ave influence on way of life...

[Äike]

Gorgeous place.

http://banner.visitestonia.com/images/57e1ba12c97746b731dd45feb3b729bd.jpg

[Richard]

http://banner.visitestonia.com/images/57e1ba12c97746b731dd45feb3b729bd.jpg

Lovely.I still think climate and culture influence each other.Catholic religion and roman debauchery are the foundations of italian way of living.Debauchery is good:D

[Äike]

Lovely.I still think climate and culture influence each other.Catholic religion and roman debauchery are the foundations of italian way of living.Debauchery is good:D

Indeed, us Nordics all have have Lutheran past, which is quite different from Catholicism.

[Richard]

Yeah the Roman Church was very depraved back in the days.That's when Lutherans came out.Sleazy behaviours still resist.Well it's hot and sweaty here.:eek:

[mihaitzateo]

I think you are making generalizations which are very far away from true.
In Romania I could not say that most romanians are extraverted.
You could say that romanians are not very southern and that is true,but you know the weather here is very various,in winter is very cold with temperatures up to -20 degrees celsius and even lower (in Bucharest which is very south were like -23 degrees this winter,minimum and -25 degrees last winter) in the north (where it goes to -28 and some areas -30) while in summer is hot not very often,but sometimes it is.
Usually is warm in the summer with temperatures above 30 degrees celsius.
Sure we have also spring and autumn where weather is different from year to year.

[Foxy]

I think you are making generalizations which are very far away from true.
In Romania I could not say that most romanians are extraverted.
You could say that romanians are not very southern and that is true,but you know the weather here is very various,in winter is very cold with temperatures up to -20 degrees celsius and even lower (in Bucharest which is very south were like -23 degrees this winter,minimum and -25 degrees last winter) in the north (where it goes to -28 and some areas -30) while in summer is hot not very often,but sometimes it is.
Usually is warm in the summer with temperatures above 30 degrees celsius.
Sure we have also spring and autumn where weather is different from year to year.

But please, once I made a picnic and next to me there was a Romanian family and they were more loud than a bunch of drunken Neapolitans. :rolleyes2:

[Zephyr]

Lutheranism is strict, prudish, emotionally repressive, hence leading to general depression. As a consequence, from nordic societies have stemmed the most excessive liberalist movements. Feminism is rampant.

Oslo Saturday nights, for example, give the "path of excess" a whole new meaning.

[Prince Carlo]

But please, once I made a picnic and next to me there was a Romanian family and they were more loud than a bunch of drunken Neapolitans. :rolleyes2:

There is a group of Romanian students in my university and they are louder and crazier then your average S.Italian. But since most Romanians in Italy are from the lower class, I think they are not really representative.

[Incal]

The North-South geographical theory is a flaw. For example Russians, who are from the same geographical longitude and from even colder climate, are much more extroverted than my fellow Latvians.

Dunno, from a spic POV russians are seen as autistic too. Their women are a different case tho... :D



You've to ask to your brothers how they feel in Uruguay, that has a very warm/hot climate for most part of the year.:p

Maybe not as cold as Europe but from what my cous have told me, winters can be pretty cold in here. Actually, every house around here has a chimney.

[Richard]

We're self indulgent sinners so why be introvert?May sound wrong to you puritans but that doesnt mean we're lazy or unproductive,we made a lots of beautiful things then and now.

[AR89]

You ever been in a 100% piedmonteis city? Pure-blooded piedmonteis are very closed-mind people and they always accuse southerners or partially-blooded northerners (as i am) to have "bòntemp" (that mean to be always happy and extroverse also in situation where this isn't needed).

I know a piedmontese man which was called "calabrese" by his former piedmontese wife because he was too friendly.

[Foxy]

Lutheranism is strict, prudish, emotionally repressive, hence leading to general depression. As a consequence, from nordic societies have stemmed the most excessive liberalist movements. Feminism is rampant.

Oslo Saturday nights, for example, give the "path of excess" a whole new meaning.

I think that some protestant users have a deviated idea of catholicism. It was the first Benedettins, who were catholic and Italians, to create the motto "ora et labora" (pray and work). What about hypocrisy? Catholicism says that God reads not just in your actions but in your heart, you have not only to act well but to think well, otherwise you will not save yourself. For catholicism man has the free will, he has the possibily to save himself if he listens to the teachments that God has sent to men via Jesus and via Church.
For catholcs the community is superior to the individual, because you can save yourself only if you do well to the others. Maybe it is also for this reasons that we southerns, that for the most are catholic and ortodox, are more extrovert and friendly.

[Foxy]

We're self indulgent sinners so why be introvert?May sound wrong to you puritans but that doesnt mean we're lazy or unproductive,we made a lots of beautiful things then and now.

Catholics aren't at all! We even used the cilice, self torture, scourge!
Cilice has been used in monasteries until 1960s. :eek:

Mortification of the flesh:

Mortification of the flesh (Transliteration: "Putting the flesh to death") is the institutional expiatory act of a person or group's penance for atonement of sins and path to sanctity. The term is primarily used in religious and spiritual contexts. The practice is often found in many cultures, most notably the Roman Catholic Church and their penitential saints. Common forms of mortification includes flagellation, in imitation of Jesus Christ's suffering and death on the crucifixion.

The Roman Catholic Church has often held mortification of the flesh (literally, "putting the flesh to death"), as a worthy spiritual discipline.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortification_in_Roman_Catholic_teaching#Pain.2C_h uman_nature.2C_and_Christ

[mihaitzateo]

Well not all romanians are like those which you have seen in Italy.
Those from Italy are from medium upper/upper class and those are indeed extraverted.
Usual romanian from medium/medium lower/lower class is talking very hard to other people than those who knows.
In fact one of the things you are taught at home in most romanian families is to not talk with strangers.

[Peyrol]

Well, what's wrong in being extroverse? :confused:

[Prince Carlo]

Well, what's wrong in being extroverse? :confused:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferiority_complex

:coffee:

Many people here have an inferiority complex towards Nordics.

[Waidewut]

Well, what's wrong in being extroverse? :confused:

Nothing, brain degenerating song answers your question.:D
QAPY6Wq5KH0

[Foxy]

Well, what's wrong in being extroverse? :confused:

I dunno.
I prefer extrovert people.

[mihaitzateo]

There is nothing wrong with being extroverted,but most romanians are considering someone extroverted crazy.
I was quite extroverted during university and my colleagues were looking weird at me for that.
I do not know why,is weird,but this is how most romanians are.

[Amapola]

I remember once I went to an Italian restaurant in Cardiff, and somebody told the staff it was my birthday; they made a fuss of me in public to the point where I felt embarrased. They were Italians, lovely people.

[Queen B]

I remember once I went to an Italian restaurant in Cardiff, and somebody told the staff it was my birthday; they made a fuss of me in public to the point where I felt embarrased. They were Italians, lovely people.

Well, this is very common in Greeks, too. (Una fazza una racca, I guess):p.

[Foxy]

I remember once I went to an Italian restaurant in Cardiff, and somebody told the staff it was my birthday; they made a fuss of me in public to the point where I felt embarrased. They were Italians, lovely people.

Well, Spaniards aren't less extrovert either. A friend of mine had Spanish Erasmus-students as roomates and she said that they organized parties with other Spaniards almost every night, and they also had dinner at absurd hours, like 10 pm. It was a bit hard to keep their rythm but she managed and it was her best university year.

[Petros Houhoulis]

I have a question for members of this board that I've been pontificating for awhile. Why are Scandinavians, and Northern Germans notorious for being more reserved, while fellow Southern Europeans are known for being more gregarious? Empirically, I noticed this trend when I traveled in Europe on several occasions. I also happen to have relatives in Sweden and Norway, which my family keeps in contact with. Moreover, I had a German exchange student who was very aloof. When I was over in Italy and Spain, normal Italians and Spanish were not afraid to strike up a conversation, some of them didn't even know English all that well, but they made an effort. Also, when I was in Italy, I was engaged in a rather lengthy discussion with some Portuguese. During my conversation, I broached this very same topic with them, in which they seemed to think it had to do with the weather. They thought that people in colder climates were generally more reserved, while people in more temperate climates are more outgoing because it's always sunny. Anyways my question for you is, do you think it boils down to the climate or genetics?

You can extend the issue of the climate all the way to political behavior as well. There is a theory called Environmental Determinism out there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_determinism

There is an even harder one, if you can stomach it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_determinism

Just don't mess it with Fatalism or Theological determinism or anything else that actually leads to Nihilism one way or another. Just pay attention to the fact that the Hard determinism is the exact opposite of Libertarianism...

Although it is hard for a person who professes a form libertarianism like myself, Hard determinism is a fact of life. We just have to fool ourselves otherwise every day of our lives. Scientifically, the truth is simply unassailable. Fortunately (or unfortunately) the level of predictability shall never be sufficient to have us rest assured of any certain future...

[Incal]

Well, this is very common in Greeks, too. (Una fazza una racca, I guess):p.

http://cineplex.media.baselineresearch.com/images/292491/292491_large.jpg

[Foxy]

We should mythicize a bit more the Greeks. I have been to Greece and it was the best place where I have ever gone.
Anyway yes I think the climate influences the personality. I remember that in Greece the spring and the sea was more coloured than in central Italy and I felt of good mood the whole time.

Greece in spring (could you get depressed in this???)

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/22026522.jpg
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/45355066.jpg

[billErobreren]

Danes shouldn't be considered as Scandos in this sense

say what?:confused:

[Peyrol]

I dunno.
I prefer extrovert people.

Me too, but seems that for many other euros being extrovert and happy is a disadvantage or a illness :confused:

[Allenson]

Northerners don't have time to talk. There's work to be done. ;)

[Richard]

Veleda the church of Rome was "simoniaca" when the lutherans came out,you're right about the mortification of the flesh though.

[Rødskjegg]

Janteloven (The Law of Jante) would explain a bit.

[Anthropologique]

Castilians? Go to Zamora or Burgos, :)

Well, that's the Leonese influence.;)

[Scrapple]

I have noticed here in the US East coast that Southerners are a lot more friendly and outgoing in general (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_hospitality) compared to we Northerners. So climate must have some effect as we are all of the same ethnic stock.

[derLowe]

I have a question for members of this board that I've been pontificating for awhile. Why are Scandinavians, and Northern Germans notorious for being more reserved, while fellow Southern Europeans are known for being more gregarious? Empirically, I noticed this trend when I traveled in Europe on several occasions. I also happen to have relatives in Sweden and Norway, which my family keeps in contact with. Moreover, I had a German exchange student who was very aloof. When I was over in Italy and Spain, normal Italians and Spanish were not afraid to strike up a conversation, some of them didn't even know English all that well, but they made an effort. Also, when I was in Italy, I was engaged in a rather lengthy discussion with some Portuguese. During my conversation, I broached this very same topic with them, in which they seemed to think it had to do with the weather. They thought that people in colder climates were generally more reserved, while people in more temperate climates are more outgoing because it's always sunny. Anyways my question for you is, do you think it boils down to the climate or genetics?

I can only comment on German - South Slav differences.

I noticed that Germans like to talk about different things to Slavs. If you get them to talk about things they care about they will talk for hours with a little encouragement.

On Germans:
When they talk they like to talk in depth about subjects and are usually very serious very few expressive gestures. The ones I met have very good posture and when talking to you stand up straight which some times seems intimidating to shorter people. Their eye contact is always strong which can be intimidating to some people. The conversations I had with them was very much like a 2 way Radio, they talk. pause ( in which I think about what they said ) than I talk, pause ( in which they think about what I said ) than they talk. There is also the concept of Ausländer in German people, I think it limits certain conversation topics to groups like families, Church, male buddies ect. I am not sure of this one so I am guessing.

On Slavs:
Slavs that I met and that have talked to me like human beings, tended to be very expressive and loud. They tended to cut into your sentences quite often and speak over you and used plenty of hand gestures. They some times were slouched in posture, usually the tall ones. Their topics of conversation were local happenings, what their friends were doing and how their country was the best. They often gave advice in fields that they were not experts in.

I think the perceptions of Germans as aloof stems from a certain ignorance about their culture ,body language and communication style. Allot of their actions stem from pride and respect.

Slavs that I met use a different communication style and body language to the Germans it dose not make the Slavs any more extroverted just different. In fact after writing all this down I concluded that they are both equally sociable in their own right.

These are just my observations in Africa of the 2 groups, they may not necessarily be accurate any where else or be accurate at all. If some of the German poster would like to clear up some things, like the concept of Ausländer or add any thing more I would appreciate it, I am always looking to add to my knowledge.

[Hevneren]

There's a lot of misconceptions about what it means to be introverted and extroverted.

I read some peculiar theories about Scandinavians, claiming we're depressed and so forth. While it's a phenomenon for people in the far north (north of the Polar Circle) to experience depression due to no sunlight for months, it's not something experienced by all people, and an introverted personality isn't a sign of depression.

It's a myth that suicide rates are very high here too, and if suicide rates were based on how cold the weather was, then it must be colder in Guyana and South Korea than in Norway and Sweden.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

I think that we Norwegians are reserved people, but historically we have also helped each other and been "good neighbours". In the Havamal (Speech of Odin "The Highest"), it says that you should let a stranger into your home, because he may have cold feet and be in need of warmth.

Some Norwegian villages are very interconnected and everyone knows everybody else. I was surprised one day when waiting for the bus, when this girl came up to me and started talking to me. She told me she was from a small place.

I think the concentration of people can have an effect on how you react. Too many or too few people can make you more reserved, while "just enough" people can make you more social.

[mihaitzateo]

Northerners don't have time to talk. There's work to be done. ;)

I think you meant "there are computer games to be played"?

[Hess]

Catholics are more extroverted than wasp and puritans,we dont feel no sense of guilt and we are also the descendents of carpe diem life style.

I am a Catholic but quite introverted

[Damião de Góis]

Two ukranians were on the night train a while ago, and they were being very loud...

[mihaitzateo]

Two ukranians were on the night train a while ago, and they were being very loud...

Maybe they were a little or more drunk.

[Damião de Góis]

Maybe they were a little or more drunk.

I don't think so. Do you consider them loud, in your experience?

[mihaitzateo]

Well I did not met any ukrainains in my life.
But I know that males from Romania,north Moldavia (which are pretty close to ukrainians I think) after they drink a little and get more cheerfull start to speak louder and be pretty extraverted.
Drinking is national sport in both Ukraine on one side and Moldavia and Transylvania (this is how are called the northwest part of Romania - Transylvania and north east part of Romania - Moldavia) .,
This is the part of Romania called Transylvania:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Transylvania_location.svg
This is the part of Romania called Moldavia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavia
(whatever,now the east part of Moldavia is autonomous and is called Republic of Moldavia.)
It borders Ukraine to north,the part of Moldavia from Romania.
With the difference that in Ukraine they like to drink vodka,in Moldavia they like to drink wine and in Trasylvania they like to drink something called palinka - which even more stronger than vodka and is made from prunes (it has about 60 degrees alchool lol.).
The romanians from Muntenia,do not like to drink too much (these are noobs :) ).

[Septentrion]

Southern Europeans are more open, because that's part of their Latin culture which makes them more friendly/approachable than Germanics.

[Virtuous]

because of culture and climate.

(I am very introverted, though)

[Smaug]

Brazilians are much more open and talkative then we are. The difference is striking actually. I would say there is also a contrast between us and the spanish in that matter.

This also not an absolute truth. Here in the part of the country where I live (Southern part) people are know to be boring and closed and sometimes even arrogant, while Northerners are know as the happiest people. Maybe it's because of the climate, Norhern Brazil has tropical climate, while the South has subtropical/temperate climate. São Paulo for example is know as "Terra da Garoa" that means "Drizzle Land", so... yes, things are a little grey here.

[Ouistreham]

Janteloven (The Law of Jante) would explain a bit.

Exactly.

Scandinavians have a high sense of equality, they behave just as if every citizen was a lord deserving the same respect and rights (including the right to be addressed with courtesy and not being rudely shouted at) as any other, but the bad side is that if someone really displays superior abilities, knowledge and intelligence, he'd better keep a low profile, he'd be very much disliked otherwise.


because of culture and climate.

Climate and languages (except that some are inherently louder than others) and genetics don't make any frigging difference.

It's a matter of ethos. Mutual trust is at the core of European culture and mindset, more so in the West and the North, and consequently in Germanic provinces. This is a reality.

If you don't trust the other people around you, if you fear that they're going to frame you at first opportunity, they will have the same feelings about you. Hence everyone is demonstratively friendly, in a pre-emptive way, they all call each others "friend! friend!", "amigo, amigo!' — the Arabs and Indians are terrible about that.

Let's face it, extraversion comes generally along with corruption and cheating.

[Rouxinol]

I don't talk with every fucking stranger that approaches me on the street. Nor do I attempt to start a chat with a random tourist or foreigner that I might encounter just for the sake of it (eg, I never asked any exchange student in my college about their foreign cultures - I have always kept my conversation with foreigners always strictly professional). Neither would I engage in a long conversation with you if you came to me to ask me something (I would rather give you a short answer and say bye). So maybe I am not that extrovert and you are indeed making "sweeping generalizations".

[Comte Arnau]

Americans and Australians are more extrovert than Iberians.

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

cus scandinavians lived in snow cabins during winter alone for long periods of time


Americans and Australians are more extrovert than Iberians.


I disagree, I think they are about equal except Spaniards are insulted by strangers talking to them while americans just try to avoid random people unless they seem interesting

but they are both nothing compared to Mexicans the nicest people in the world.

[Balmung]

Americans are extremely extrovert, sometimes too extrovert.

If you are quiet, and in a room full of Americans they will not allow you to be quiet (ive witnessed this myself in just about every school ive been in) We like showing off too.

The only Americans in my experience who aren't like this live in secluded small towns. Everywhere else, we're loud sons of bitches.

[Jackson]

This seems to be the case, although it isn't always. Was on a dig last summer (only doing a couple of courses) and there was a few foreigners there as usual. The Spaniard there was the quietest of the lot - although his English wasn't fluent and i think he was still acclimatizing, decent bloke though. But then i think it depends on your environment at the time too, if we all went to Spain instead it would probably be more like the other way around, although of course one person doesn't speak for a nation.

I would guess it had something to do with a mixture of the climate and the more Puritan-ish (at least in recent centuries) attitudinal of much of northern Europe. Count Arnau points this out correctly i feel (with regards to Australians, Americans) - All of those i've met are pretty much extroverted, so i doubt genetics has a big role, maybe only a small one at most. Culture and climate first i feel.

[arcticwolf]

Americans and Australians are more extrovert than Iberians.

Yes they are in general, I think. Though generalizing is a so/so effort. For example Poles have an opinion of being quiet and introverted for the most part, but there are individuals who are the opposite, so.

I would go with the cold climate and long winters theory. When it's cold and gloomy outside you tend to learn how to entertain yourself. If you grow up in the culture where your parents and other adults are introverts, you tend to follow the suit.

My first encounters with the Southern Europeans was an observation that they talk with their whole body and don't have a concept of a private space. :laugh:

In conclusion we can generalize all day long, but the fact remains that there are introverts in the south and extroverts in the north. Though there is some truth to the stereotypes. :p

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

Spaniards if they feel intimidated like Arabs can become very serious and try to project an aura of "adult seriousness"

British people seem to be as talkative as americans in my experience

but yeah in a classroom where it was me 2 whites and a ton of, shit ton of asians and some latinos, it was hard for me to keep quiet and i could only find the whites to talk to, while the other people who were not americanized seemed to follow the "keep quiet" rule

but yeah when u live in a cold cabin without seeing people for long periods of time only like ur little family u probably get really annoyed and learn to shut up

[Midori]

Balkanians are known for being temperamental and loud, I'm the exact opposite of that.

[Slycooper]

Canadian Europeans are very extraverted.

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

Canadian Europeans are very extraverted.

somehow I'm surprised and doubt it is the case compared to amerians

[Jackson]

It'd be interesting to see how each group reacts to a lack of socialization/extroverted behavior. In the past i've gone for some days and hardly spoken, the only difficulty was getting used to speaking again xD, but it's just a matter of being able to be entertained with varying degrees of social interaction. So maybe the important factors are the length of time before social interaction is required, and the amount of social interaction required to 'fill up' again.

Could be something like active vs passive socialisation. The north seems to be more passive (although this is the opposite when alcohol is involved) - They will tend to be reactive (ie speak when spoken to) while in the south there is a tendency to active socialisation (ie people actively going to engage socially). Although this is not a rule of course and there is plenty of overlap - But this may well be part of it.

[Slycooper]

somehow I'm surprised and doubt it is the case compared to amerians

Trust me. Really it's not a bad thing really. You should hear Europeans here playing cards or watching a football game. Screaming but really there just talking to eachother. Even the younger generations.

[Virtuous]

Climate and languages (except that some are inherently louder than others) and genetics don't make any frigging difference.


I competely disagree, climate has a lot to do with it. Climate can affect our mood, thus behaviour of people as well.

[Queen B]

I competely disagree, climate has a lot to do with it. Climate can affect our mood, thus behaviour of people as well.

Climate has a lot to do with that. Lithuania,Latvia,Estonia, Russia and neighbor countries have very high rates of suicides.
Medditeranean and Latin/Central American countries rank lower (and if it wasn't the crisis, Greece would rank even lower).

No matter how shitty your life if it is, if sun is shining, and weather is great, it lights you up.
If its always rainy, its usually -20'C or you have 6 months night, well...

[Absinthe]

Even in Greece which is one of the warmest countries, during the winter time (which does not get colder than +5C in Athens) people button up, they like to stay at home more and they aren't as extroverted and outgoing as in the summer time.

I can see it from myself, during the winter months I prefer to stay at home most of the time. It's not about the cold (it's not really cold after all) but it's about the atmosphere.

Winter is generally a more pessimistic time, but it is also a time for recollection, a time for rest, a time for energy preservation, and certainly not a time for socializing and having fun. It is no accident that many creatures in nature hibernate during the winter.

During the summer I can't stay at home at all, it is too warm, I like to go out and enjoy the nice breezy evenings and have fun with my friends and spend as much energy as possible.

Now if you enforce this model on to whole warm VS cold regions, it makes a hell of a lot of sense as to why people in cold climates tend to be more introverted if they live in a constantly cold and depressive environment as opposed to people living in hot, sunny countries.

[ficuscarica]

I don´t think a cold environment is depressive, I would love to live as a moose hunter in the Canadian wilderness! :D

[Catrau]

Exactly.

Scandinavians have a high sense of equality, they behave just as if every citizen was a lord deserving the same respect and rights (including the right to be addressed with courtesy and not being rudely shouted at) as any other, but the bad side is that if someone really displays superior abilities, knowledge and intelligence, he'd better keep a low profile, he'd be very much disliked otherwise.

Everybody likes to be adressed with respect and everybody should keep a low profile even if he is the most intelligent, it's not a scandinavian/northern progorrative.




Climate and languages (except that some are inherently louder than others) and genetics don't make any frigging difference.

I don't agree with this, of course climate can be the main driving force and the language can be also very important but I think we must never generalize too much about this. This matter should be approach at personal or group level, at population level seams to me too general.



It's a matter of ethos. Mutual trust is at the core of European culture and mindset, more so in the West and the North, and consequently in Germanic provinces. This is a reality.

Either you know nothing about other europeans or you have a twisted mind. I bet on both. Your bold is quite revealing of your low peripheral view because you are nothing but a german and nordic wannabe. I like germans, love their country but I don't want to be one of them, I already have my ancestry, thank you very much. Don't you like your own country?



If you don't trust the other people around you, if you fear that they're going to frame you at first opportunity, they will have the same feelings about you. Hence everyone is demonstratively friendly, in a pre-emptive way, they all call each others "friend! friend!", "amigo, amigo!' — the Arabs and Indians are terrible about that.

:picard2:
Is this real talk or is it me just dreaming, please pinch me if I'm sleeping. That's a very strange and unexpected concept. This paragraph, I find it must have been written by a disturbed person and is directly aimed at Iberians. That comparison with arabs, I can’t understand where it comes from because we never had relations with arabs, let alone act like them. I know that you want to hit us by comparisons with muslisms or north-africans, that's the usual way to insult us by uneducated and low self esteem people. You just need to travel thru Iberia and the continue to Morocco to fully understand the differences, obviously you won’t be able but I guess this whole idea comes after your Algerian environment.
Maybe you are making confusion with being polite and helpful.



Let's face it, extraversion comes generally along with corruption and cheating.

You face it in your own dreams, maybe that's the way it happens in your country, in fact I read newspapers and it looks like you have your own slice of that business.

I have to say something: this is one of the most anti-europeean, xenophobic posts I've read lately. It's a "polite" way to talk shit about other europeans behind a supposed educated frame as if it makes this kind of talk more acceptable. It clearly comes from an expendable european that, if you have good memory, accustom us to this kind of poetry.

I tend to ignore overall offenses that come from wider groups and that generally rely on primary, reduced and low graded ideas that they accept as absolute truth only because they don't know much and in some cases are just a way to stand in the top of their toes, making that funny posture that make us laugh, the overall context is funny and shouldn't be taken too serious. Then we have this guys that stand inflated as hot shoots and once in a while vomit superiority or something alike, especially toward southerners, often talking about some kind of southern inferiority complex as you did in other posts. I think you believe too much on your own dreams. Why the hell should a Spaniard, an Italian or a Portuguese feel complexes in front of a French or a Norwegian? I believe that there are things we should and must do better but that also applies to northerners. We should learn with each other for a better future. Your crappy talk is a bad solution. You live in a long gone world my friend. I suggest that you update you european data base and travel a little bit instead of passing tour time in front of the computer with popping out eyes writing repetitive and syncopated ideas.
Maybe you need to hear another thing and seed it in your brain: Contrary to your believes, we do not envy you nor envy any other nation. You’re biased by 1950's and 60's southern migrants to your country and maybe that's the reason of your tendentious illness, this is just me speculating but I may not be far from truth.

[member]

Climate has a lot to do with that. Lithuania,Latvia,Estonia, Russia and neighbor countries have very high rates of suicides.
Medditeranean and Latin/Central American countries rank lower (and if it wasn't the crisis, Greece would rank even lower).

No matter how shitty your life if it is, if sun is shining, and weather is great, it lights you up.
If its always rainy, its usually -20'C or you have 6 months night, well...

Yeah, sure, that's the most important shit existing those countries. :picard1:

Peopl from Latin/Central American Countries, Southern Europeans are more extraverted, friendlier, etc. People from the countries you mentioned are a lot more intraverted. I can not speak about the rest countries, but in my country this problem do not get enough attention and money unfortuantelly.

The climate do not cause all that.

[Rouxinol]

I forgot to mention that some northern Europeans are extroverted as well. At least they were when I was in Denmark. Very friendly, open and talkative. The places I have been so far where people are less expansive and more closed on themselves are in eastern Europe, and that might be due to decades of isolation and communist rule. I also found that in the UK people rather on the introvert side as compared to other continental northern Europeans. But then again, generalizations don't work.

[The Alchemist]

I think it's just a stupid generalization about "who's happier", there are more depressed people in the south than in central-north europe (i experimented it in real life).
Sure there are different social conventions, about southerners being more extroverted, ecc (this is true, i have to say), coz of the opportunity of spending much time outside,and then socializing.
Btw in my own experience germans -for exemple- aren't cold at all, they're very open and friendly, but reserved at the same time. It's very easy to have a conversation with a stranger in Germany, but -thanks God- people don't ask for your phone number after 2 min, or come to your house every day at all hours (it's pretty annoying).
They're just friendly but not clingy.
It's just a stupid stereotype which pictures germans as being cold and "not nice". They're just less hellion than in the south.

[Catrau]

There was this Dane in Greve that once told me they were the mediterraneans of the north (!). Of course he was talking about behaviour. I wont forguet that friendly Danish horde during Euro2004, they were fantastic.

[The Alchemist]

But finnish people seem to be very closed and melancholic, i have to say.

[Catrau]

Btw in my own experience germans -for exemple- aren't cold at all, they're very open and friendly, but reserved at the same time. It's very easy to have a conversation with a stranger in Germany,... It's just a stupid stereotype which pictures germans as being cold and "not nice". They're just less hellion than in the south.

Agree with that.



... but -thanks God- people don't ask for your phone number after 2 min, or come to your house every day at all hours (it's pretty annoying).


I either never met someone like that where I live. We aren't the Hollywood stereotype of southerners, far from that as you may know and learned recently because of what is happening socially in some countries including mine. I think you are exaggerating here. I like to socialize and that can be staying talking in the café after diner for a while, met people (friends of friends) and sometimes even talk to strangers if they are also on the mood for that. I don't see nothing of especial on this and I sincerely think that it's what everybody does everywhere unless they are some kind of anti-social persons.

[Catrau]

But finnish people seem to be very closed and melancholic, i have to say.

There was a Finn that once posted that "not to talk to strangers!" was a personal feature of that people, I don't know, never been there.

[The Alchemist]

There was a Finn that once posted that "not to talk to strangers!" was a personal feature of that people, I don't know, never been there.

They hardly look into your eyes and talk to you, unless they're drunk (my own experience with guys in Finland).
Btw in south europe (where i was born), sometimes friendliness can be exagerated, and in some cases people are pretty annoying, calling you at the phone 10 times a day, and coming to your house with no invitation. It really annoys me, this extreme side of "southern ardour".

[Peyrol]

Lack of Vitamin D3 (who influence sexual hormones and catecholamines) in the far North, probabily.

[Catrau]

They hardly look into your eyes and talk to you, unless they're drunk (my own experience with guys in Finland).
Btw in south europe (where i was born), sometimes friendliness can be exagerated, and in some cases people are pretty annoying, calling you at the phone 10 times a day, and coming to your house with no invitation. It really annoys me, this extreme side of "southern ardour".

I couldn't find the other one but I found this one.
You have to talk looking the others in the eyes, sometimes I look at the lips moving when they are beautiful.


http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/376326_10151125371581013_1961898349_n_zpsca4b9a3f. jpg

Well Imago. What you call annoying can be quite satisfying for a bachelor if the phone calls come from hot girls :D:D
Lets put this into perspective. Maybe you got those phone calls every 10 min and that gives an idea of how you must look :)

Talking seriously, I've never met someone like that. If it happened to you, I believe you but I think that at the 3rd call, in the maximum, I would get enraged to put it to a stop. I think stereotypes are quite exaggerated from north and south. I include myself in the south but I think that historically we are a bit different from the stereotype sikliot says about a loud part of his family, we hate that and for us it is extremely impolite and rude to talk loud in the street or behave as a clown.

[The Alchemist]

I couldn't find the other one but I found this one.


http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/376326_10151125371581013_1961898349_n_zpsca4b9a3f. jpg

Well Imago. What you call annoying can be quite satisfying for a bachelor if the phone calls come from hot girls :D:D
Lets put this into perspective. Maybe you got those phone calls every 10 min and that gives an idea of how you must look :)

Talking seriously, I've never met someone like that. If it happened to you, I believe you but I think that at the 3rd call, in the maximum, I would get enraged to put it to a stop. I think stereotypes are quite exaggerated from north and south. I include myself in the south but I think that historically we are a bit different from the stereotype sikliot says about a loud part of his family, we hate that and for us it is extremely impolite and rude to talk loud in the street or behave as a clown.

We can't generalize, that's obvious, but as a rule southern (as further south as you go) are loud, talk very much and don't listen to each other.
For exemple my south italians relatives are that way (especially the old ones), they talk and repeat the same things the whole day without even listening to what others say. I have headache after 20 min spent with them, i have to go out.
For exemple i'm very talkative but i hate being loud, and i hate loud people.
And -about people who call you 10 times a day- i was referring to both girls and boys (friends), who can't stay alone even for 5 min. It's pretty annoying that intrusiveness.
Btw i use to have good relationships in Germany, people are friendly but not loud, and they appreciate my talktiveness (sometimes i speak too much, tough, like all women) :P

[Mans not hot]

You cannot lump all Southern Europeans in the same category. They vary a lot in terms of personality.

[Styggnacke]

Climate has a lot to do with that. Lithuania,Latvia,Estonia, Russia and neighbor countries have very high rates of suicides.
Medditeranean and Latin/Central American countries rank lower (and if it wasn't the crisis, Greece would rank even lower).

No matter how shitty your life if it is, if sun is shining, and weather is great, it lights you up.
If its always rainy, its usually -20'C or you have 6 months night, well...
How come then that France, Uruguay, South Africa and Suriname all have higher suicide rates than Sweden?

[Catrau]

For exemple my south italians relatives are that way (especially the old ones), they talk and repeat the same things the whole day without even listening to what others say. I have headache after 20 min spent with them, i have to go out.


Well maybe it's a feature of the people of that part of Europe. I tell you that Portuguese aren't like that at all and I the Spaniards I know aren't either.
On the other hand you can find people quite noisy and rude if you go to a popular market. I don't go there, I hate those places. You'll find a horde of gipsy sellers of robbed and counterfeit clothing under tents in a regrettable ambiance yelling for their merchandise. Those markets are very different from German marketplatz markets for flowers or vegetables. We have more or less like that for antiquaries, at least in my hometown. The gipsy market clients are usually old people that since ever goes to those markets and also people that thinks that by buying there they make good deals but it’s like going to a Chinese shop, nothing worth’s a penny. Those gipsy markets that I'm talking about are unspeakable, thank god they are there only one morning a week. Those places are what may correlate us more with a Moroccan market, yuck! And you should see how they let the place after they go away.. it’s a sea of plastic bags on the ground. Those bastards not even try to put their trash on the garbage container, it’s really an apocalyptic view. In my hometown we are fighting to end it but it is a fair with almost 800 years that was taken over by those bastards. Since ever it was just a popular market where farmers would sell their products.

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/ciganada1_zpseadfa737.jpg

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/ciganada2_zps80f0abfc.jpg

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

I am honestly starting to doubt the fact that Spaniards are actually extroverted at all, it seems that they are warm, but only within their own family or acquaintances, however real extroverts would be open with people that they do not know as well, because in fact most Europeans are talkative when they already know the people like within their family.

[Slycooper]

Portuguese and Italians here are very loud

[Catrau]

Portuguese and Italians here are very loud

That's new to me, I work with Italians (3) and also I live here. Portuguese are quite quiet, cool and low profile.

[PeacefulCaribbeanDutch]

that's what I'm trying to say, I think these were not done correctly or scientifically, they need to restudy these groups I think europeans are generally introverted in public, the only ones extroverted are latin americans and even their not all countries

also British people I think are extroverts more often, and dutch and germans when they are drunk, also polish and slavics when drunk

for certain Dutch and British and Irish

[Stefan]

I think it's more accurate to classify societies by

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_context_culture

Introversion and extroversion are individual characteristics, more-so than sociological ones. I suppose the tolerance of introversion or extroversion is the only thing different among societies. Americans are extremely intolerant of introverts, for example.

[Toretto]

Perhaps this is not a good thing but i'm very extraverted

I socialize much with people,if I know a bunch of guys (male and female) at lunch I could go out with them to drink in the evening.
if I have to talk, i want to talk to an unknown girl, I do it without any problems
example: whether in the gym. or at work. if someone is alone or apart, I'm going to introduce myself, and I try to get him in the "company"
if I go on vacation in a place, immediately became a "friend" to all.
maybe I'm unsympathetic to many people. Obviously, is the same for everyone. there who likes you and who's not.
. but that's another story.

[Slycooper]

That's new to me, I work with Italians (3) and also I live here. Portuguese are quite quiet, cool and low profile.

It's probably just diff here.

[Jackson]

There was a Finn that once posted that "not to talk to strangers!" was a personal feature of that people, I don't know, never been there.

Haha. We have 'stranger danger' here, taught to us when we are young school children. Not the same thing, but i guess it's something subtle that could make a difference. I know there is clearly a breakdown of trust in my country at least. All my relatives of earlier generations are full of stories of how neighbours would freely walk in and out of each other's houses (if they knew each other reasonably well), leave doors unlocked, etc. When you could go up to a policeman and meet a decent person, ask them for time, directions etc - Now they would just tell you to leave them to their business. My Dad refers to the police as 'Blackshirts' now, which i think is probably somewhere near correct.

Policemen, bankers, doctors etc (the main professions) are not respected in the same way that they were 50+ years ago, and there are a lot less trades (carpentry, blacksmiths, plumbers, bricklayers etc). I think this is clearly a downfall - There are so many people i knew growing up who weren't academic - But forced into an academic situation, they could have been successful tradesman if they were given the opportunity, or at least told that it was there. But yeah back on to topic - I think a breakdown of trust and the advent of really modern technology has made society more introverted, at least in public - Although you can't deny the social interaction that modern technology also brings (this forum for example).

We are the whores of the tertiary trades industries. xD

[Catrau]

Haha. We have 'stranger danger' here, taught to us when we are young school children. Not the same thing, but i guess it's something subtle that could make a difference. I know there is clearly a breakdown of trust in my country at least. All my relatives of earlier generations are full of stories of how neighbours would freely walk in and out of each other's houses (if they knew each other reasonably well), leave doors unlocked, etc. When you could go up to a policeman and meet a decent person, ask them for time, directions etc - Now they would just tell you to leave them to their business. My Dad refers to the police as 'Blackshirts' now, which i think is probably somewhere near correct.

Policemen, bankers, doctors etc (the main professions) are not respected in the same way that they were 50+ years ago, and there are a lot less trades (carpentry, blacksmiths, plumbers, bricklayers etc). I think this is clearly a downfall - There are so many people i knew growing up who weren't academic - But forced into an academic situation, they could have been successful tradesman if they were given the opportunity, or at least told that it was there. But yeah back on to topic - I think a breakdown of trust and the advent of really modern technology has made society more introverted, at least in public - Although you can't deny the social interaction that modern technology also brings (this forum for example).

We are the whores of the tertiary trades industries. xD

Nice approach. I would say that here isn't much different. Well maybe wouldn't radicalize much. That is correct that even in the village, people take care of their property and do not leave the doors open, this is especially true for the old, they are the ones that get assaulted, they are easy preys. If I correctly recall there is this UN Agency that indexes countries by security and we were 8th the last time I saw it, this means that being robbed can happen but statistically it isn't that easy (last time I went to Paris my car was robbed and vandalized right away - suckers). In my hometown when a car is robbed it comes in the weekly newspaper :D and a man hunt starts, usually they are easily caught. It isn't a good environment for robbers unless they come from a distant place and vanish but they need to vanish by secondary roads, so it's a part of life we really don't care about but looking at the big cities I would say that it got worst in the last year as expected.

The jobs that you talked about (carpentry, blacksmiths, plumbers, bricklayers etc) right now are considered as jobs with future because, since there aren't many people doing it, the bastards can charge you a lot of money for their services. Professional schools are teaching that now. On the university level, on the other hand, kids don't want to study engineering anymore, they want arts and management, nursery, design etc. Ok I know that we have been deindustrializing but it's not a good sign either, it means that they are spending money in a course that will bring no financial return. Society did change a lot. I think we are in urgent need to rethink a little bit and go back for a while.


Perhaps this is not a good thing but i'm very extraverted

I socialize much with people,if I know a bunch of guys (male and female) at lunch I could go out with them to drink in the evening.
if I have to talk, i want to talk to an unknown girl, I do it without any problems
example: whether in the gym. or at work. if someone is alone or apart, I'm going to introduce myself, and I try to get him in the "company"
if I go on vacation in a place, immediately became a "friend" to all.
maybe I'm unsympathetic to many people. Obviously, is the same for everyone. there who likes you and who's not.
. but that's another story.

Hell no, you are a perfectly sane person. Socializing is very important for our mental and emotional stability, it accompanied us during all our evolution, we are a social animal, people who think otherwise are wrong. I've got a friend in Sweden that often dives to Helsingborg with his friends, catch a ferry to Denmark, and spend the whole saturday until daylight there in bars and meeting people. In Denmark you find easily night life that apparently is missing in Sweden. Maybe some Swedes can confirm this. The closest thing to alcohol that I saw in Sweden was Heineken in the supermarket but with 0,2 or 0,5º of alcohol, basically dirty water. Better drink mineral water.:D
Everybody should need this letting go once in a while, even the coldest guys around. I do this quite often: have dinner with friends and continue the night, here it isn't expensive.

[Amapola]

I suppose it's got to do with sociability.

[arcticwolf]

I don´t think a cold environment is depressive, I would love to live as a moose hunter in the Canadian wilderness! :D

I don't think you've ever experienced real cold! Trust me it ain't no fun! Enjoy warm climate, cold sucks ass! :D

[Madonna]

I don't think you've ever experienced real cold! Trust me it ain't no fun! Enjoy warm climate, cold sucks ass! :D

not true artic

its suck when its raining and there is no sun

but sun, snow, minus 10 :D perfection :D

[Madonna]

I always thought about myself as an extravert person, but when I was in Spain I saw they are much more extraverted than we are. The most surprising thing was to me when I visited and met our Spanish suppliers with my Spanish colleague, that they always kiss you at the beginning in cheeks. It was quite nice but very surprising, usually more to north we dont like to do it with someone we dont know or its our first meeting. I even told to my Spanish friend look they all kiss me haha, he started to laugh because it was natural to him.

General I think Poles are somewhere between, they like to be extraverted but also they like to keep safe distance.

[Hesperión]

I try a simply exlpanation: the climate.Being Italian I'm surprised that you'd say that because Sardinians don't seem to be affected by this "climate effect".

I would put it down to the Mediterranean Sea. Historically it's been a unique sea in that it was more a highway through which contacts and exchanges were carried out, than a divide.

In fact I find it impossible to make the Portuguese fit into this stereotype. And so does anyone who I know and who's been to Portugal. This is also true in different parts of Spain, at varying degrees as you move away from the coastal areas of the Mediterranean Sea.

But you could argue that it's the climate that made it possible for the Mediterranean to be this highway of contacts and exchanges. Probably true. But that still makes it just a precondition of which there were others.

[Toretto]

Hell no, you are a perfectly sane person. Socializing is very important for our mental and emotional stability, it accompanied us during all our evolution, we are a social animal, people who think otherwise are wrong. I've got a friend in Sweden that often dives to Helsingborg with his friends, catch a ferry to Denmark, and spend the whole saturday until daylight there in bars and meeting people. In Denmark you find easily night life that apparently is missing in Sweden. Maybe some Swedes can confirm this. The closest thing to alcohol that I saw in Sweden was Heineken in the supermarket but with 0,2 or 0,5º of alcohol, basically dirty water. Better drink mineral water.:D
Everybody should need this letting go once in a while, even the coldest guys around. I do this quite often: have dinner with friends and continue the night, here it isn't expensive.

I completely agree with you :thumb001:

[ficuscarica]

I don't think you've ever experienced real cold! Trust me it ain't no fun! Enjoy warm climate, cold sucks ass! :D

Nahh, I can handle it. I have been out in the snowy forests, hunting wild boar while it was -15 degrees, sitting still for hours. :thumb001: It´s fun - just pick the right clothing and make sure that you have enough firewood in your hut. :cool:

[Catrau]

I always thought about myself as an extravert person, but when I was in Spain I saw they are much more extraverted than we are. The most surprising thing was to me when I visited and met our Spanish suppliers with my Spanish colleague, that they always kiss you at the beginning in cheeks. It was quite nice but very surprising, usually more to north we dont like to do it with someone we dont know or its our first meeting. I even told to my Spanish friend look they all kiss me haha, he started to laugh because it was natural to him.

General I think Poles are somewhere between, they like to be extraverted but also they like to keep safe distance.

That’s truth, we kiss. Not a completely strange person in the street but if we are introduced by a friend or colleague to a never seen before woman, we kiss. Man compliment is a handshake but men to women and women to women is with not one kiss but two. We need uncomplexed relations, it's just a kiss, it was no passion value.
Another thing that I feel northerners need to understand and learn is the relationship with alcohol. Many people seams not to understand, especially with wine. Wine is a fine product almost a gourmet one and that's the way it should be used. Wine is the most important socializing intermediary in our society. I can't imagine myself going to the supermarket Friday afternoon after work, buy some bottles of vodka and get myself drunk until puke all weekend, sometimes alone at home.. that's a real shame and a waste of life.

[Comte Arnau]

That’s truth, we kiss. Not a completely strange person in the street but if we are introduced by a friend or colleague to a never seen before woman, we kiss. Man compliment is a handshake but men to women and women to women is with not one kiss but two. We need uncomplexed relations, it's just a kiss, it was no passion value.
Another thing that I feel northerners need to understand and learn is the relationship with alcohol. Many people seams not to understand, especially with wine. Wine is a fine product almost a gourmet one and that's the way it should be used. Wine is the most important socializing intermediary in our society. I can't imagine myself going to the supermarket Friday afternoon after work, buy some bottles of vodka and get myself drunk until puke all weekend, sometimes alone at home.. that's a real shame and a waste of life.

I agree.

There is also a surprising lack of social abilities in the North. Even Scandos themselves who've been living here for a long while notice this when they go home. It is kind of shocking, because on the other hand they've got what is probably the highest social welfare level in the world.

I recently heard a sociologist talking about the importance of 'the family weave' in Southern Europe when it comes to cope with serious problems, such as the present crisis. I am also certain that there is a connection between things like this and the suicide rate in the southern European countries being among the lowest in Europe.

[Madonna]

what about your late dinners ? :D . I was always complaining to my Spanish colleague that you eat dinner so late. So he told me that he has neighbor from Argentina who is eating dinner at 10pm with all his family (including small children) lol
thats a bit too much :D to us :D

btw I dont mind kissing it was nice experience :) surprising but nice :)

[The Alchemist]

I dislike melancholic and introverted persons, i keep them away from me. They have a too negative energy and i don't want to be infected.

[Corvus]

I dislike melancholic and introverted persons, i keep them away from me. They have a too negative energy and i don't want to be infected.

Introverted and contemplative persons are these who best impersonate the Nordic spirit. The Nordic mind is more or less emotionless and silent even in harsh circumstances and this is a virtue which is of big value and should be preserved.

I am very grateful that despite my Southern appearance my genes have equipped me with a Nodic mind :)

[The Alchemist]

Introverted and contemplative persons are these who best impersonate the Nordic spirit. The Nordic mind is more or less emotionless and silent even in harsh circumstances and this is a virtue which is of big value and should be preserved.

I am very grateful that despite my Southern appearance my genes have equipped me with a Nodic mind :)

The important thing is that you feel good in your skin.
More than introverted, i'd say i hate negative and melancholic persons, for my own sake i keep them distant.
If one is introverted but at the same time serene and sunny, then i can spent some of my time with him/her.
Btw i tend to prefer extroverted people, coz i feel them close to my nature.

[Atlantic Islander]

Introverted and contemplative persons are these who best impersonate the Nordic spirit. The Nordic mind is more or less emotionless and silent even in harsh circumstances and this is a virtue which is of big value and should be preserved.

I am very grateful that despite my Southern appearance my genes have equipped me with a Nodic mind :)

Lol, seriously?

[Corvus]

The important thing is that you feel good in your skin.
More than introverted, i'd say i hate negative and melancholic persons, for my own sake i keep them distant.
If one is introverted but at the same time serene and sunny, then i can spent some of my time with him/her.
Btw i tend to prefer extroverted people, coz i feel them close to my nature.

I understand your point of view. I feel the same, just vice versa

[The Alchemist]

Extraverted, communicative and charismatic people rule the society and the world, they have "something more", they're adequate for being leaders and strong personalities.
The world is in their hands, introverted have no many chances. This is how the world works.

[Aura]

Its interesting how mostly of americans are extroverted, at least that was my perception.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Who knows what goes in a head of an igloo dweller...

After my brush with a Swedish girl, which was probably the most talkative Swede I have ever met, and that puts her in most near sociopathic withdrawn person league in Balkans, I've concluded that Scandinavians are just fucked up. There is no different way to put it but that they are just fucked in the head, they don't socialize even among their own and I am starting to think that videos like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvFFwcUOIOA) are just an elaborate play (because in wild you can't ever find that many Swedes in one place) to attract ruggedly handsome Bosniak twenty-somethings to a trap for morally deviant experiments which I can't even begin to wrap my mind around...

[Jackson]

Extraverted, communicative and charismatic people rule the society and the world, they have "something more", they're adequate for being leaders and strong personalities.
The world is in their hands, introverted have no many chances. This is how the world works.

Well extroversion isn't a necessity for leadership. I'm introverted and usually tend to take leadership roles, except in areas where i don't know what i'm doing of course. But yeah you are right generally, as i think i could probably count the number of major leaders who were introverted and uncharacteristic on one hand.

From the perspective of the 'other side', introverted people find extroverted people i guess socially over-energetic. I know that sometimes spending a day out with extroverted people can feel like I've been running a marathon or something and i just need time to myself and of course sleep to catch up on energy :).

I don't think one or the other is particularly advantageous and disadvantageous overall, but certainly each have their merits. Like you say extroverts tend to make better leaders and executives, or anything that involves being a 'people-person'. While i guess introverts have higher rates of people that a better looking at the less socially direct sides of things, in things like mathematics and science. But both are required for society to function properly imo.

Every extrovert should have at least one introverted friend and vice-versa.

[Hesperión]

Introverted and contemplative persons are these who best impersonate the Nordic spirit.Introversion is usually the result of poor social skills, lack of self-esteem, etc. What derives from it are things like poor communication skills, which may easily be confused with a contemplative or reflective character.

Rather than a 'spirit' I'd call it a 'syndrome'.

[Jackson]

Introversion is usually the result of poor social skills, lack of self-esteem, etc. What derives from it are things like poor communication skills, which may easily be confused with a contemplative or reflective character.

Rather than a 'spirit' I'd call it a 'syndrome'.

It's not poor social skills in the sense that someone is socially inept and becomes introverted (at least not usually, it is the case sometimes). It's more that introverts are less concerned with social interaction and that extra time is spent on other things.

[Corvus]

Introversion is usually the result of poor social skills, lack of self-esteem, etc. What derives from it are things like poor communication skills, which may easily be confused with a contemplative or reflective character.

Rather than a 'spirit' I'd call it a 'syndrome'.

If I would be an emotional person like you I would now start to argue with you because of this obvious provocation, but to underline of my nordish character I keep my composure and just tell you that I don`t agree :)

[Hesperión]

It's not poor social skills in the sense that someone is socially inept and becomes introverted (at least not usually, it is the case sometimes). It's more that introverts are less concerned with social interaction and that extra time is spent on other things.What I had in mind was not any 'inept'. It's rather that specific social and cultural constrains through the upbringing of an individual influence his/her ability to relate to other individuals.

There's a wide range of positions to accommodate the majority of the people in between the extremes of introversion and extroversion.

As for the characteristics that are adscribed to a "nordic spirit" (which I don't argue that they are too), I've seen them too often among the peoples of the Sahara, especially those who still lead a semi-nomadic life. They are the result of social isolation.


If I would be an emotional person like you I would now start to argue with you because of this obvious provocation, but to underline of my nordish character I keep my composure and just tell you that I don`t agree :)If you could keep your composure you would just said that you don't agree and, if you also had the intelectual ability to do it, you would have even further argued why you don't agree.

You would have certainly not taken it down to a personal level like you've done.

See how Jackson's response to my observation above, contrasts with your reaction.

[Incal]

I agree.

There is also a surprising lack of social abilities in the North. Even Scandos themselves who've been living here for a long while notice this when they go home. It is kind of shocking, because on the other hand they've got what is probably the highest social welfare level in the world.

I recently heard a sociologist talking about the importance of 'the family weave' in Southern Europe when it comes to cope with serious problems, such as the present crisis. I am also certain that there is a connection between things like this and the suicide rate in the southern European countries being among the lowest in Europe.

I remember a looong time ago you posted the impressions of a spanish ambassador about Finland: Regarding culture, people and more important: WOMEN. Do you still have the link?

[Atlantic Islander]

:bored0:

[The Alchemist]

Introversion is usually the result of poor social skills, lack of self-esteem, etc. What derives from it are things like poor communication skills, which may easily be confused with a contemplative or reflective character.

Rather than a 'spirit' I'd call it a 'syndrome'.

You're very right.
I've been extremely introverted, lonely and problematic for many years of my life, coz i had had big traumas in my family and i became extremely cold and silent. People told me "it's just your temperament", but fuck off, it wasn't true, the truth is that i was suffering too much in my heart that i couldn't express it.
So introvertion and an extreme closure (i'm talking about extreme, unhealthy one) is a sign of mental disease, imo (i can say it coz it happened to my skin). When you see a person who is always on his own, feels always unconfortable with people and is "absent", then poor him, he mu st be very unhappy and disturbed.
All the very shy people i know are very unhappy and full of issues. Tnx God i found my own way and kept all the insane people away from me.
Since i solved all my problems, i became a friendly and extroverted person, who knows why :rolleyes:

[Hesperión]

You're very right.
I've been extremely introverted, lonely and problematic for many years of my life, coz i had had big traumas in my family and i became extremely cold and silent. People told me "it's just your temperament", but fuck off, it wasn't true, the truth is that i was suffering too much in my heart that i couldn't express it.I'm currently dealing with a similar problem with two little girls. It's hard and quite often I feel lost as to what to do. But I can see how every step out of introversion, small as it may be, is a step that improves their quality of life.

Neither extreme is good. To extrovert yourself doesn't mean to become an extrovert. The healthy point is a the point of balance between introversion and extroversion.

[The Alchemist]

I'm currently dealing with a similar problem with two little girls. It's hard and quite often I feel lost as to what to do. But I can see how every step out of introversion, small as it may be, is a step that improves their quality of life.

Neither extreme is good. To extrovert yourself doesn't mean to become an extrovert. The healthy point is a the point of balance between introversion and extroversion.

We must follow our nature and be ouselves, nothing more. I'm naturally extroverted and social contacts just make me happy, why shouldn't i enjoy this side of life???
Ok, maybe sometimes i'm too extroverted and a bit exihibitionist to balance all the years spent in loneliness and sadness.
But let's live how we really want to.

[Graham]

Southern European tourists are reserved here. Must be the weather.

[Slycooper]

I'm a bit of both. If I am in a situation like in a public bus or something I looked depressed and kind of angry I have been told. So If I don't know you I can be very shy and quiet. But if I get comfortable I am pretty extraverted.

[dralos]

northern(both west and south) euros are depressed bcs they have trouble getting pussy
while southern euros are attention whores,who you want to smack down

[ficuscarica]

Because the Northerners are content with their own Übermenschness and don´t need other human beings in order to be happy.

[The Alchemist]

Because the Northerners are content with their own Übermenschness and don´t need other human beings in order to be happy.

Then i'm happy for being an Untermensch and enjoying company, friends & fun :p:p If i should choose between being blonde nordic and lonely, or wog, happy and social, no doubts it's better to be a wog!!!

[Jackson]

We must follow our nature and be ouselves, nothing more. I'm naturally extroverted and social contacts just make me happy, why shouldn't i enjoy this side of life???
Ok, maybe sometimes i'm too extroverted and a bit exihibitionist to balance all the years spent in loneliness and sadness.
But let's live how we really want to.

But what about people who are naturally introverted? Surely then a change to extroversion could be considered part of a disorder?

[The Alchemist]

But what about people who are naturally introverted? Surely then a change to extroversion could be considered part of a disorder?

No, it's not a disorder, as long as they have a normal life, like a job, social life, a partner (not necessarily a partner, but as long as they don't have particularly problems with the other gender).
I can't believe that a human being could ever live totally isolated and with no social contacts, it's insane.

[Catrau]

Southern European tourists are reserved here. Must be the weather.
:D:D

It's contemplation and awe towards your mother land!!
:thumb001:

[Útrám]

I believe that the nature vs nurture relation is more complex on this matter. Old ethnographic work depicts a very warm picture of Icelanders.


A warmhearted and friendly character, one who gladly enjoys the company of others. Complete strangers kiss each other upon their first meeting.

Nobody in their right mind would say this today.

[WOOHP]

Because of Jantelagen(the Jante Law).



All expressive of variations on a single theme and usually referred to as a homogeneous unit: You are not to think you're anyone special or that you're better than us

The ten rules state:

You're not to think you are anything special.
You're not to think you are as good as us.
You're not to think you are smarter than us.
You're not to convince yourself that you are better than us.
You're not to think you know more than us.
You're not to think you are more important than us.
You're not to think you are good at anything.
You're not to laugh at us.
You're not to think anyone cares about you.
You're not to think you can teach us anything.

I like it though. It's a sign of respect towards other people no matter who they are.

Obviously these unwritten laws are not supposed to make you feel ashamed of yourself or like your less worth than the people around you. It's more of "treat people like you want to be treated".

[Žołnir]

Tbh i dont know how much Northerners are so reserved but with my travels in northern places i didn't notice any specialites. However imo we Slovenes thow we aren't northern but i think we are generally quite reserved in general.

[Atlantic Islander]

Azorean attitude is actually fatalistic.


“The contemplation of the sea makes men dreamers, saddens and depresses them with its monotony. The green of the land, the blue of the sea, sometimes dreadfully dark, sometimes whitened by the clouds, seen in the subdued and diffuse light filtered through the clouds, increase the sadness of the environment and spread sadness in the soul already downtrodden by the effect of the temperature. The sea is thus one more factor of the indolence of the saudosismo (nostalgia) of everything that makes the Azorean somnolent and apathetic … The rhythmic cadence of the waves and of the tides regulates his slow steps and wooden gestures, gives a tone to his drawl and song-like intonation, wrinkles his face and sharpens his sight.”


A recent study notes that the Azorean people appear to be characterized by behavioral patterns which generally oppose associative cooperation. On the other hand, it stresses that a number of factors do indeed favor some cooperative spirit.These include:

The widespread practice of mutual and reciprocal help
among people, social pressures (and the absence of specific
humanitarian motives behind those pressures) the adhesive
effect of neighborhood pride and rivalry, a sense of
community belonging in recreational pursuits and the
persistence of certain cooperative structures within various
activities.

Reinforcing each of these characteristics is the fatalistic worldview which, rooted both in religion and in the environment, dominates the islands.

It should be pointed out that, relative to other nationalities, the Azoreans do not differ tremendously from the mainland Portuguese. As Ribeiro points out, the culture which the Portuguese brought to these islands underwent changes that were more quantitative than qualitative. By this he means that fundamental traits common to both the Portuguese and the Azoreans became either exaggerated or toned down in the latter. Such changes in degree generally outweighed the introduction of entirely new basic characteristics. As examples of the quantitative changes, Ribeiro cites

the exaggerated saudosismo, the intensification and transformation
of the religious spirit, the attraction of the sea
which made emigration almost an instinctive necessity,
the maintenance of ideas, beliefs, superstitions, and customs
which have disappeared.

The qualitative changes, although less important, include the acquisition by the Azoreans of

... apathy and a sense of moderation, a certain degree of
subservience and the substitution of lyricism for satire.

The saudade (nostalgia) and provincianisrno characteristic of the mainland Portuguese worldview are particularly acute in the Azores. Similarly crucial are the lyricism and tenderness that pervade Azorean attitudes towards everything. These qualities are widely reflected in the language, through the constant use of the diminuitive forms inho and inha (little this,little that). The above mentioned characteristics all lead to conformity with the status quo. The Azorean is generally apathetic and indifferent towards participation in any community affairs other than religious activities. Hundreds of years of collective frustration and continuous disillusionment under various ruling systems have robbed him of all faith in government as a means of solving his problems. He has been left with faith in no one but himself.

[Permafrost]

Tbh i dont know how much Northerners are so reserved but with my travels in northern places i didn't notice any specialites. However imo we Slovenes thow we aren't northern but i think we are generally quite reserved in general.

In fact Slovenes never make eye contact with a stranger when walking the street.

I find this also rude, dunno why.

[Žołnir]

In fact Slovenes never make eye contact with a stranger when walking the street.

I find this also rude, dunno why.

Accordin' to real event! :D

[Jackson]

In fact Slovenes never make eye contact with a stranger when walking the street.

I find this also rude, dunno why.

To be honest it's pretty weird when someone looks at you when you walk past them.

[Permafrost]

To be honest it's pretty weird when someone looks at you when you walk past them.

Very neolithic behaviour IMO.

[Jackson]

Very neolithic behaviour IMO.

Lol maybe. It's just like they want something with you. I sometimes notice the fact that i actively avoid making eye contact with people who i am not going to engage with any sort of interaction, it's a pretty automatic thing. I think it is mostly a cultural thing though.

[Permafrost]

Lol maybe. It's just like they want something with you. I sometimes notice the fact that i actively avoid making eye contact with people who i am not going to engage with any sort of interaction, it's a pretty automatic thing. I think it is mostly a cultural thing though.

This one perplexed me. The way you speak of yourself it seems this kind of behaviour is not widespread among those belonging to the British culture, yet the way you speak of other peoples in your daily interaction implies just the opposite. Or is the aforementioned behaviour more common among immigrants in Great Britain, rather than British people?

I think you may be right it's cultural, when I was on my visit to Rome I noticed people would do that sometimes (especially on the bus), and indeed just like yourself I felt discomfort because I interpreted it as non-verbal communication (but there was none).

But it also varies from individual to individual, f. ex. an introvert person might react different than an extrovert one.

[MelinusMargos]

Why are white americans so extroverted?

[SobieskisavedEurope]

A. It could be that North Europeans in a harsher environment developed to be more efficient by more action & less talk with talk getting in the way of action.

While in the more comfortable Med climate they would have more leisure time & thus have time to form more social networks.

B. It could actually be Melanin!

Melanin is associated with Tyrosine which Tyrosine converts into Dopamine & Adrenaline.

Thus there CAN be an association with higher Melanin & higher Dopamine & Adrenaline levels.

Which higher Dopamine & Adrenaline levels can stimulate & thus stimulate conversation.

Women do have higher Dopamine & Adrenaline levels than Men & Women do talk more.

[Jackson]

This one perplexed me. The way you speak of yourself it seems this kind of behaviour is not widespread among those belonging to the British culture, yet the way you speak of other peoples in your daily interaction implies just the opposite. Or is the aforementioned behaviour more common among immigrants in Great Britain, rather than British people?

I think you may be right it's cultural, when I was on my visit to Rome I noticed people would do that sometimes (especially on the bus), and indeed just like yourself I felt discomfort because I interpreted it as non-verbal communication (but there was none).

But it also varies from individual to individual, f. ex. an introvert person might react different than an extrovert one.

That is true. I think it is more common among immigrants who come from a different cultural background. It is relatively more common in southern England where i am from although like you say, introversion is a big factor. I think most extroverts would not have a problem with it, and most introverts would. I'm an introvert so probably that is the explanation.

[Jackson]

Why are white americans so extroverted?

Northerners in a southern environment perhaps? Or maybe again a cultural thing. Whenever i see rednecks i always think that is probably what i would end up similar too if i lived in a hot country lol.

[Constantine13]

I'm southern Euro and am so introverted I'm almost autistic. I don't know if it comes from growing up in the USA or what, but I'm not like "my people" at all.

I don't go back to Greece as often as the rest of my family partly because I find it really annoying having to say "Hi" to every freaking person I pass on the street. My town is small and it's expected that you stop and chat or at least say something to people. And in summer everybody's out walking around or hanging out on their porch/balcony.

If you don't say anything, then the gossip mill goes into overdrive and all kinds of strange stuff you couldn't even imagine gets spread around about you.

[Rouxinol]

I hate people talking out loud and/or laughing out loud be it in the middle of the street or in the café or any other place. It happens a lot during the summer months here though: tourists (from everywhere) do not know how to behave - and it's not only the younger ones who misbehave, people like in their 40s act like they don't know any boundaries on social interaction. And they tend to drink beyond limits, which in turn worsens the spectacle.

[rashka]

I think Yugoslavs tend to be more on the reserved side.

[Incal]

Why are white americans so extroverted?

Answer: The Niggas.

[iNird]

I think Yugoslavs tend to be more on the reserved side.

lol ye right. Maybe Slovenes but you Serbs are no different. Just makes me think sometimes if you really are serbian?

:rolleyes:

[Atlantic Islander]

This is from an American's experience in the Azores:



As for the locals, they might seem reserved or even a bit distant. Walking through the handsome, immaculate downtown of Ponta Delgada and smaller cities, we weren’t met with many smiles. But Azoreans have their own kind of friendly, and it’s one that Bostonians will understand well. Once you penetrate the veneer, you often find incredibly warm and giving people who are immensely proud of their corner of the world.

I posted the article here. (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?93308-Azores-a-perfect-destination-for-Boston-travelers&p=1898599#post1898599)

[The Alchemist]

Germanic guys make me feel really uncomfortable....they're soooooo shy, introverted, you never know what they have in their mind! They're so passive like 13 years old girls...and i never liked "southern" machos either (i hate that "play boy" attitude), a middle way would be ideal but it seems impossible to be found :/

[Jackson]

I'm southern Euro and am so introverted I'm almost autistic. I don't know if it comes from growing up in the USA or what, but I'm not like "my people" at all.

I don't go back to Greece as often as the rest of my family partly because I find it really annoying having to say "Hi" to every freaking person I pass on the street. My town is small and it's expected that you stop and chat or at least say something to people. And in summer everybody's out walking around or hanging out on their porch/balcony.

If you don't say anything, then the gossip mill goes into overdrive and all kinds of strange stuff you couldn't even imagine gets spread around about you.

Hmm that is cruel.

[The Alchemist]

i've never met one single "cold, introverted" ethnicity in my life...even those ones from Siberia are very nice and friendly, maybe not like someone from Neaples, but really all people i've met were quite extroverted, imo (esp. women). Well, maybe only in Finland i saw very closed people, but maybe i just didn't have the chance to know them better....swedes and danes are very friendly too, not to mention germans (except in "love affaires", i mean :D)

[gold_fenix]

Germanic guys make me feel really uncomfortable....they're soooooo shy, introverted, you never know what they have in their mind! They're so passive like 13 years old girls...and i never liked "southern" machos either (i hate that "play boy" attitude), a middle way would be ideal but it seems impossible to be found :/

well i think you are in the extremes , surely you have a preference for Italian and German boys and well are very opposite

[The Alchemist]

well i think you are in the extremes , surely you have a preference for Italian and German boys and well are very opposite

I don't have a preference for a typical "italian macho attitude", but certainly not for those ultra-shy northerners either. Yes, they're totally opposite, and both annoy me...i mean i like secure guys, not shy, but not "macho men" either, those ones who jump on you after 2 min without even knowing you! I don't like them, but in the last period i realized that germanic are the other extreme, you tell them that you like them and they "aswer" eating their nails and looking at the floor :picard2:

[Madonna]

I don't have a preference for a typical "italian macho attitude", but certainly not for those ultra-shy northerners either. Yes, they're totally opposite, and both annoy me...i mean i like secure guys, not shy, but not "macho men" either, those ones who jump on you after 2 min without even knowing you! I don't like them, but in the last period i realized that germanic are the other extreme, you tell them that you like them and they "aswer" eating their nails and looking at the floor :picard2:

:D go for Slav :D they like they like to flirt they are funny and will focus on you :)

[Corvus]

I don't have a preference for a typical "italian macho attitude", but certainly not for those ultra-shy northerners either. Yes, they're totally opposite, and both annoy me...i mean i like secure guys, not shy, but not "macho men" either, those ones who jump on you after 2 min without even knowing you! I don't like them, but in the last period i realized that germanic are the other extreme, you tell them that you like them and they "aswer" eating their nails and looking at the floor :picard2:

Austrians are propably the most extrovert Germanics (maybe due to the Slavic influence) but compared to real Southeners still on the shy side.
Russians are extremly extrovert compared to Central Europeans. They have a Southern mentality. I know this now because of real life experience :p

[The Alchemist]

:D go for Slav :D they like they like to flirt they are funny and will focus on you :)

i tried whatever possible with german guys but nothing, they're like stones, you tell them "i'm looking forward to see you again" and they answer "yes, you can come and have a look at my waschmachine, i can give you it for only 50 euro" :picard2: :picard2:
I'm hopeless, yes i think i'll go to Russia to find a pretty guy who is poor enough to take me only for my passport :(:(

[The Alchemist]

Austrians are propably the most extrovert Germanics (maybe due to the Slavic influence) but compared to real Southeners still on the shy side.
Russians are extremly extrovert compared to Central Europeans. They have a Southern mentality. I know this now because of real life experience :p

russians :lightbul:

[Prisoner Of Ice]

i tried whatever possible with german guys but nothing, they're like stones, you tell them "i'm looking forward to see you again" and they answer "yes, you can come and have a look at my waschmachine, i can give you it for only 50 euro" :picard2: :picard2:
I'm hopeless, yes i think i'll go to Russia to find a pretty guy who is poor enough to take me only for my passport :(:(
I am friends with a few German guys and girls. It seems they end up flying towards anybody but Germans for dates, like the first attractive foreigner they meet they marry. The women are such opposites of the men it's kind of bizarre. I guess American women have some of that independence or whatever but it's not so extreme.

There's plenty of american guys on the bases though and they are probably more what you'd like in personality and lots of marriages happen whenever guys get posted to German.

[The Alchemist]

I am friends with a few German guys and girls. It seems they end up flying towards anybody but Germans for dates, like the first attractive foreigner they meet they marry. The women are such opposites of the men it's kind of bizarre. I guess American women have some of that independence or whatever but it's not so extreme.

There's plenty of american guys on the bases though and they are probably more what you'd like in personality and lots of marriages happen whenever guys get posted to German.
I dunno what kind of germans do you know, the ones i know simply don't date anybody :shrug:
The women are quite active on the contrary, but guys are just "amoebas", don't dare distract them from their beer and their "Witze" among friends!!

[Atlantic Islander]

They have a Southern mentality.

No such thing. (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?43586-Why-are-Southern-Europeans-more-Extraverted-than-Scandinavians&p=1895287&viewfull=1#post1895287)

[Prisoner Of Ice]

I dunno what kind of germans do you know, the ones i know simply don't date anybody :shrug:
The women are quite active on the contrary, but guys are just "amoebas", don't dare distract them from their beer and their "Witze" among friends!!

It's so weird to think of it but I know it's true, a whole country of nerdy guys surrounded by hot temptresses they are too oblivious to make a move on. It's like something out of a movie. Too bad I'm too lazy to learn german.

[Styggnacke]

i tried whatever possible with german guys but nothing, they're like stones, you tell them "i'm looking forward to see you again" and they answer "yes, you can come and have a look at my waschmachine, i can give you it for only 50 euro" :picard2: :picard2:
I'm hopeless, yes i think i'll go to Russia to find a pretty guy who is poor enough to take me only for my passport :(:(
Maybe the German guys don't think you're attractive enough? Just mentioning this possibility.

[Äike]

No such thing. (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?43586-Why-are-Southern-Europeans-more-Extraverted-than-Scandinavians&p=1895287&viewfull=1#post1895287)

Russians do have a "Southern mentality". It's called "high and low context cultures". Estonians, Finns, Swedes, Germans, Brits etc. are all part of a low context culture, while Italians, Russians, Greeks and so on are part of a high context culture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_and_low_context_cultures

[Atlantic Islander]

Russians do have a "Southern mentality". It's called "high and low context cultures". Estonians, Finns, Swedes, Germans, Brits etc. are all part of a low context culture, while Italians, Russians, Greeks and so on are part of a high context culture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_and_low_context_cultures

Well this part of the south does not fall into either so... (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?43586-Why-are-Southern-Europeans-more-Extraverted-than-Scandinavians&p=1895287&viewfull=1#post1895287)