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Beorn
05-13-2009, 11:05 PM
Why can't the BBC understand that we are STILL a Christian country?

The BBC’s director-general Mark Thompson has said that religious broadcasting gives rise to more controversy in his job than any other subject. I am afraid he hasn’t seen anything yet.
On Monday, the Corporation announced that it has appointed a Muslim as head of religious broadcasting. This is not a joke, I can assure you.

The person responsible for overseeing the BBC’s — so far — largely Christian output will be Aaqil Ahmed, a practising Muslim.
Let me say at once that I have nothing whatsoever against Mr Ahmed, who is, I am sure, an excellent broadcaster who may have much to contribute to the coverage of religion.

Some say that he has done a good job producing religious programmes in his present job at Channel 4, though he has been accused of intellectual shallowness, and last year some Roman Catholic priests alleged he had commissioned documentaries that appeared to contain a pro-Islam bias.
Nor do I doubt that Britain’s three million Muslims have every right to expect the BBC to provide some religious broadcasting directly aimed at them.

They pay their licence fee like everyone else, and their views should be properly and proportionately reflected in the Corporation’s programming.
That said, they still constitute a small (though doubtless devout) minority of this country’s population of 60 million.
Some 70 per cent of adult Britons describe themselves as Christian, though a far smaller proportion regularly attend church.

Culturally, this still remains a Christian country with a national Church, the Church of England, whose supreme head is Her Majesty the Queen.
I realise there are also millions of atheists, Muslims and Hindus, and a smaller number of Sikhs and Jews, who may not embrace Christian religious broadcasting.

But I suspect that most of them are happy to put up with it, partly because they respect this country’s Christian traditions, and partly because, in any case, the BBC is producing fewer and fewer specifically Christian programmes.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/05/12/article-0-03B4973E0000044D-394_224x344.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/05/12/article-0-0025AADA00000258-713_224x344.jpg

Majority faiths: The Church of England's Archbishop of Canterbury the Most Reverend Doctor Rowan Williams (left) and leader of English Catholics Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, who later this month retires from his post as Archbishop of Westminster

My quarrel is not so much with Mr Ahmed as with the BBC. Despite being required under its charter to provide religious programming, and despite being funded by licence-payers who overwhelmingly describe themselves as Christian, the Corporation has been increasingly pursuing what can only be, at best, described as a non-Christian agenda and, at worst, as an anti-Christian one.

Do I exaggerate? I don’t believe so. Religious programming on the BBC has dwindled over the past ten years, and what remains is usually anodyne — calculated not to offend non-Christians, and therefore likely to provide very little inspiration to those who have Christian leanings.
Songs Of Praise, for example, has become little more than a jolly sing-a-long with very little Christian input.

A few years ago the BBC’s own governors criticised the Corporation for ‘earlier and irregular scheduling’ of this once popular programme. In others words, the BBC was attempting to marginalise it, and to a large degree it has succeeded.

In a bizarre move which prefigured the appointment of Mr Ahmed, the Corporation last year made Tommy Nagra, a Sikh, the producer of Songs Of Praise. :eek: ---(I never knew that!)--- So we have a non-Christian in charge of a programme which, not at all surprisingly in the circumstances, has less and less Christian content.
Christians at the BBC appear to be surplus to requirements. During the past year, four out of seven executives in its already diminished religion department have been made redundant. These included Michael Wakelin, a Methodist preacher, who was removed as head of religious programmes to clear the way for Aaqil Ahmed. I imagine that having a Methodist preacher at the heart of the BBC was more than it could stomach.
What the Corporation does at home, it does even more blatantly abroad. Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, recently complained to Mark Thompson at a private lunch that the BBC World Service has reduced its English-language religious coverage from one hour 45 minutes a week in 2001 to a mere half an hour a week in 2009.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/05/12/article-0-0618EABE0000044D-370_233x312.jpg

Tommy Nagra: Sikh producer of Songs of Praise

Half an hour! This is a highly significant reduction.

For in the Third World, and particularly in Africa, there are hundreds of millions of Christians who probably yearn for more religious programmes on the BBC, and yet the grim, secular-minded commissars who oversee these matters have chosen to cut them back.
The BBC does not like God, unless perhaps it be a Muslim, Hindu or Sikh version.

At every possible opportunity it will wheel forward one of those professional atheists who are not happy to live silently with their own non-belief but are determined to shove it down everyone else’s throats.
I am thinking particularly of the biologist Richard Dawkins, the novelist Philip Pullman and the philosopher A. C. Grayling.

Can you think of a Christian biologist, novelist or philosopher who is afforded one-tenth of the airtime of these militant, omnipresent non-believers?
The odd thing is that we live in an age of growing religious conviction. Even in this country there is a small resurgence of Christianity, largely outside the mainstream churches. But the BBC is travelling fast in the opposite direction. The new intellectual orthodoxy, among the narrow group of people who control it, is profoundly anti-Christian.
Yet the Roman Catholic Mark Thompson is probably the most devoutly Christian director-general since John Reith, the first man to have the job and who, as a flinty Presbyterian, must now be spinning in his grave.
Alas, in marked distinction to the militant atheists I have mentioned, Mr Thompson will not stand up for his beliefs.
Being, I trust, fairly realistic, I do not expect him to push back the encroaching secular tide that has taken over so many of the Corporation’s religious programmes. But one might reasonably hope that he would at least hold the line.

That line is in keeping with the BBC’s obligations under its charter, and with the predilections of the Christian majority of this country.
Mr Thompson will not defend it. To judge by Mr Ahmed’s appointment, he did not heed the Archbishop of Canterbury’s concerns at their recent lunch that the BBC is ignoring its Christian audience.

However, the director-general does not mind intervening when he sees fit. Last year he suggested that Islam should be treated more sensitively by the media because it is a minority religion in this country.
For all I know, Mr Ahmed may prove himself remarkably sympathetic to the sensibilities of Christians in his new job. One cannot, however, count on that, and it is interesting that he has said there should be more coverage of Muslim matters in the media.

Will this, on the BBC, be at the expense of an already reduced number of Christian programmes?
In all kinds of ways the publicly funded BBC does not reflect the views of the public it is supposed to serve.

No doubt its secular suits assume that Britain is as anti-Christian as they are. They’re out of touch again. In appointing Aaqil Ahmed they do not simply offend against this country’s Christian heritage and traditions. They also further weaken the hold and authority of the BBC.
Source (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1180970/STEPHEN-GLOVER-Why-BBC-understand-STILL-Christian-country.html)

Christopher
05-14-2009, 04:10 AM
The last thing that anyone should be doing is catering to Muslims. They should be given reasons to leave instead of staying.

Treffie
05-14-2009, 09:26 AM
The person responsible for overseeing the BBC’s — so far — largely Christian output will be Aaqil Ahmed, a practising Muslim.
Let me say at once that I have nothing whatsoever against Mr Ahmed, who is, I am sure, an excellent broadcaster who may have much to contribute to the coverage of religion.

What I don't understand is that Muslims currently constitute approximately 4% of the population and yet the BBC has appointed this guy. Weren't there any other suitable candidates for the post, or is the corporation stepping up a gear in the PC race?

Can't wait for the Mecca broadcast of Songs of Praise. :mad:

SwordoftheVistula
05-14-2009, 09:49 AM
Why does a state television network even have religious programming? Let these characters set up their own television networks, youtube channels, whatever, running religious programming from a state TV network will only create problems between the religious groups contesting for control of it.

Beorn
05-14-2009, 09:55 AM
Why does a state television network even have religious programming?

Because the country that the BBC broadcasts from is a Christian country.

Long may it stay that way. :thumb001:

Spaniard_Truth
05-14-2009, 10:26 AM
English people are too intelligent to believe in an anthropomorphic God and a religion as base and anti-intellectual as Christianity. That's why religion in England is dominated by non-English people -- Muslims and Negro Christians.

Most English people are simply indifferent to religion. It's not in the British character to believe without question. Conservative media hold on to Christianity simply for the sake of tradition, but how many English 'devout Christians' has anyone ever met? Christianity is thoroughly un-English and religion is a primitive ethnic thing.

Beorn
05-14-2009, 10:47 AM
That's why religion in England is dominated by non-English people -- Muslims and Negro Christians.

Correction if I may, but it's not the religion that is dominated by the Muslims and Negro Christians, but the media airtime and public persona.



Most English people are simply indifferent to religion.

I'd have to strongly disagree. It's only because the English don't go shouting about their religion from the rooftops that people get this uninformed opinion.

Yes, most English people if asked will say they don't really follow a religion or are bothered about a religion, but as soon as you challenge the community based churches, etc..you will be faced by absolute indignation and hatred.

Try it out sometime.
Push an Englishman into a corner and see what comes out of it.


Christianity is thoroughly un-English and religion is a primitive ethnic thing.

"Other" Christianity is, but this is why the English invented their own form of Christianity.

Thorum
05-14-2009, 12:50 PM
Why does a state television network even have religious programming?

Similar to Iran or Saudi Arabia, the government shoves religion down the citizens throats!!


Christianity is thoroughly un-English and religion is a primitive ethnic thing.

Well said, I couldn't agree more.

Beorn
05-14-2009, 02:17 PM
Similar to Iran or Saudi Arabia, the government shoves religion down the citizens throats!!

You're not seriously comparing the pottering of a few 'songs of praise' and other very early morning, 30 minute shows about Christianity, to the Middle East?!

And this constant reference to "shoving down" of one's throat the whole premise of religion.
Where does this come from? I have yet to witness this mass indoctrination which people seem to constantly refer to to kick Christianity with.

Psychonaut
05-14-2009, 04:28 PM
You're not seriously comparing the pottering of a few 'songs of praise' and other very early morning, 30 minute shows about Christianity, to the Middle East?!

I dunno man, it is kind of creepy. Europeans love to make fun of how religious the US is (i.e. all of the joke maps that list the bulk of the US as 'Jesusland'), but this kind of thing has never gone on in our country. I'm not at all comfortable with state religions glad as Hell we don't have one.

Sol Invictus
05-14-2009, 04:34 PM
The gods of Britain are rallying their kin. Won't be long before the curse of both the Ishmaeli and the Nazarene are lifted and the land is once and for all reclaimed for those that belong to it. :)

Varg is coming... :D

SwordoftheVistula
05-14-2009, 10:00 PM
Yes, most English people if asked will say they don't really follow a religion or are bothered about a religion, but as soon as you challenge the community based churches, etc..you will be faced by absolute indignation and hatred.

But is it because of religious faith, or because they don't want their community centers messed with? Wouldn't one 'be faced by absolute indignation and hatred' if their neighborhood school or park were threatened?

Jamt
05-14-2009, 10:08 PM
But is it because of religious faith, or because they don't want their community centers messed with? Wouldn't one 'be faced by absolute indignation and hatred' if their neighborhood school or park were threatened?



I believe it is a matter of identity. It might be hard for North Americans to contemplate but a lot of Europeans have it and it is based in history and ancestors.

SwordoftheVistula
05-14-2009, 10:41 PM
I believe it is a matter of identity. It might be hard for North Americans to contemplate but a lot of Europeans have it and it is based in history and ancestors.

People here are actually a lot more into that stuff. But that was essentially what I was saying, that loyalty to local church has more to do with identity, than with spiritual faith or what the church is preaching. Take the conflict in Northern Ireland for example, while ostensibly over religion, they aren't shooting eachother over theological differences between Catholics and Anglicans.

Jamt
05-14-2009, 11:18 PM
People here are actually a lot more into that stuff. But that was essentially what I was saying, that loyalty to local church has more to do with identity, than with spiritual faith or what the church is preaching. Take the conflict in Northern Ireland for example, while ostensibly over religion, they aren't shooting eachother over theological differences between Catholics and Anglicans.


Identity is spiritual. It is not a thing you get from internet genealogy and DNA tests. It is about knowing at what Church your grandmother are buried and what region your(often the same as you live or have a connection to) grandmothers grandmother comes from. Most Swedes are in bicycle distance to a 7-800 year old Church. It is about thinking about your place in the world when looking at a landscape and wondering what your great grandfather felt about the same view.

That is a good part of Identity and Christianity for Europeans and it may not be at the forefront of our minds, but scratch the surface…

And you compared this to your feelings for your school or local Park. Believe me, it is bigger than that.

Lenny
05-17-2009, 06:25 AM
Why does a state television network even have religious programming?I think your enquiry should be rephrased to get to the heart of the matter:

"Why does England have a state church?"

Your question follows from that.

SwordoftheVistula
05-17-2009, 08:54 AM
Whatever it was in the past, now it's just a state-funded left wing activist organization

Treffie
05-17-2009, 09:08 AM
My personal opinion is that Christianity is just as alien to the UK as Islam, but due to the length of time that it's been established here it seems the norm.

Beorn
05-17-2009, 02:25 PM
I dunno man, it is kind of creepy. Europeans love to make fun of how religious the US is (i.e. all of the joke maps that list the bulk of the US as 'Jesusland'), but this kind of thing has never gone on in our country.

I'll only speak for my own perception here, but I don't think the US is overly religious.
The perception of the US being overly religious stems mostly from the wide ranging television channels/shows of evangelical Christians that seem to dominate the airwaves over there.


But is it because of religious faith, or because they don't want their community centers messed with? Wouldn't one 'be faced by absolute indignation and hatred' if their neighborhood school or park were threatened?

I suppose in all honesty, it would be a mixture of both.

A school is being closed down just near to where I live. It brought a lot of protests from the parents and teachers, but reading the reasons behind the protests, you were overwhelmed by the anger at having to enrol in schools further afield than the actual closure of such an old and distinct primary school.

Compare that to a church led community based centre not too far from there which was threatened to be closing.

The protests centred around the decline of the Christian led community in the area, and not the availability of community centres (which number highly in and around the area).

Freomæg
05-17-2009, 02:45 PM
More and more, the BBC's Globalist Plan becomes apparent. I look forward to an increasing awareness of the hidden agendas and propaganda spouted forth from our primary broadcast channel. Recipients of this new enlightenment may not (openly) jump into the arms of genuine anti-establishment parties like the BNP - immediately, at least - but it's equally as important that they simply learn to distrust the establishment.

I find Christianity to be alien to these Isles, and yes, I would like to see it abolished in favour of old traditions one day. This may be unrealistic, but either way I will stand by English Christianity whilst new threats scratch at the door.