Can anything stop English-language hegemony?

[Racial Observer 1814]

Let me first point out that I am not anti-English, I just do not think other languages should be pushed out in favor of it. If it is the international language, fine, but it should not hone in on the turf of other languages. There are billions of people on Earth, more than enough for each tongue to have it's own space.

Discuss.

[Contra Mundum]

The Chinese and Indians are learning English, so I guess the answer is no, nothing can stop it.

[Damião de Góis]

I only spoke english 2 or 3 times in my life. I think foreign people only use it if they have to, so in that sense i don't see english taking over anything.

[GeistFaust]

Its all about having economic and socio-political power these days, and this is something America has to a great extent. Once another country can raise up and compete with America on such a level then I don't see a reason why people would need to adopt another language.


Also its important to know in terms of whether you want to be successful and flexible in the job/career world.


Speaking English gives you so many opportunities, because all of the practical and mainstream opportunities and possibilities for success requiring knowing. I don't think this will be easy to do, and I don't see any strong competitors, but if so then perhaps Mandarin.

[Kalitas]

Is just like the Roman Empire. By the time they were the military, political and economic power, the Latin was the Lingua Franca in most of Europe.
The same way, the English will continue being the Lingua Franca of the world until the United States and England decay, being replaced by a new military, political and economic power.

[rashka]

If given a choice between Indian language and Chinese language I'd rather speak Indian since it is closer to most European languages.

[Wulfhere]

English is one of the greatest gifts that England has given the world. I for one am very happy that I don't have to waste my time learning some crappy foreign language like French or German.

[Queen B]

Well, its easier to learn. Why not?
Imagine to have Chinese, Russian or even Greek as international language

[HungAryan]

well, its easier to learn. Why not?
Imagine to have chinese, russian or even greek as international language

學習中文是不是那麼難，你剛剛好要多練習。
美國的日子已經屈指可數，所以它是最完美的時間開始學習中國，使我們能夠整合在新的世界秩序。
萬歲毛澤東！

[Magyar the Conqueror]

English is one of the greatest gifts that England has given the world. I for one am very happy that I don't have to waste my time learning some crappy foreign language like French or German.

You are truly an idiot.

[HungAryan]

English is one of the greatest gifts that England has given the world. I for one am very happy that I don't have to waste my time learning some crappy foreign language like French or German.

Die Deutsche Sprache ist sehr schön, und ist überlegen zu das Englisches Sprache. Du bist ein Idiot.

La langue française est bon, mais vous ne le savez pas, parce que vous êtes sourds.

[Magyar the Conqueror]

Die Deutsche Sprache ist sehr schön, und ist überlegen zu das Englisches Sprache. Du bist ein Idiot.

La langue française est bon, mais vous ne le savez pas, parce que vous êtes sourds.

Don't!
This will make his English brain explode!
He probably thinks English is the native language everywhere.

The truth is, English is easy to learn, so morons like Wulfhere don't get headaches in school.

[Queen B]

學習中文是不是那麼難，你剛剛好要多練習。
美國的日子已經屈指可數，所以它是最完美的時間開始學習中國，使我們能夠整合在新的世界秩序。
萬歲毛澤東！
Yes, grammar is not so hard to learn, its actually easier than Japanese or Korean, but the alphabet is hard, let along the accent.

[Ouistreham]

English is one of the greatest gifts that England has given the world.

No. English is a curse.
It's a wonderful language to simply explain simple things, and an inadequate tool when dealing with intricate and important ideas.

Every civilisation began to decay from the moment it went unilingual (China, the Arabc/muslim empire). The Roman empire was able to develop over a longer time span due to the internal competition between Latin and Greek.

Europe never was more influential and inventive than in the years 1880-1914, when English, French and German were perceived as equally important.

A one-language civilisation is inherently doomed.

[HungAryan]

Ouistreham is right.

The spread of the Latin langauge was coincided with the "Romanization" of the barbarians.
But it was not Romanization. It was Multiculturalism.

Rome actually failed because of multiculturalism.
The Romans absorbed the non-Romans though adapting to their customs. The Romans even started worshiping the Gods of those whom they conquered!
This madness continued until Christianity was made the state religion in 391.
But that was too late. Roman culture was already doomed at that time, and Christianity could only delay the end of the Roman Empire.

[Joe McCarthy]

This question was settled in 1763 at the conclusion of the Seven Years War. If you Frenchies had fought a little better or colonized competently we'd be bitching about French language hegemony instead.

[Libertas]

Ouistreham is right.

The spread of the Latin langauge was coincided with the "Romanization" of the barbarians.
But it was not Romanization. It was Multiculturalism.

Rome actually failed because of multiculturalism.
The Romans absorbed the non-Romans though adapting to their customs. The Romans even started worshiping the Gods of those whom they conquered!This madness continued until Christianity was made the state religion in 391.
But that was too late. Roman culture was already doomed at that time, and Christianity could only delay the end of the Roman Empire.

Christianity itself was a foreign madness that did European culture no good!:rolleyes2:

[HungAryan]

I'd personally prefer to have Latin as the new Lingua Franca, just like in the Middle Ages.
And then, German would be good too.
And if German or Latin is not possible, even French of Spanish linguistic hegemony is preferred. Anything instead of English. Well, maybe with the exception of Chinese or Hindi.

Japanese would be cool though :p

[Mortimer]

Im content with English since i speak it, if it were to be replace i need to learn another maybe more difficult language:(

[Magyar the Conqueror]

I would prefer German, maybe even Russian to be the Lingua Franca of Europe.

[safinator]

English is fine and a beatiful language.

[Geminus]

It's a sad thing that German has lost much of it's influence after the world wars (Which it had at least in the natural sciences)
But at least English is rather easy to learn for Germans...

[Occident]

學習中文是不是那麼難，你剛剛好要多練習。
美國的日子已經屈指可數，所以它是最完美的時間開始學習中國，使我們能夠整合在新的世界秩序。
萬歲毛澤東！

American dominance is going to last longer than you hope.

[HungAryan]

american dominance is going to last longer than you hope.

لا اعتقد هذا.

[Occident]

See, this highligths the fault in your attitude here. Language is primarily a tool for communication, and currently English is the most conveniant option. But you want to use language specifically so you cannot be understood, which is truely rediculous. I happen to know enough Chinese to understand what you said in that language, but if you want to prattle incomprehensibly in Arabic be my guest. If I cant communicate with you then your a non-entity.

[Mordid]

That you have no idea what you're talking about...

My answer is no - it'll be Mandarin

[Nairi]

I adore most English accents and although my Russian is much better than my English I still prefer English ...

[Occident]

The Chinese are learning english so even if they continue to enjoy economic success and more and more westerners learn some chinese, this will not in of itself topple the position of english as lingua franca. Germans doing business in India will not switch from english to chinese. This is just the same as how greek remained the lingua franca of the middle-east long after the end of Greek rule.

[Arsen_]

Well I have always thought that having English as a lingua franca is a big misfortune for mankind. Unfortunately English has so many shortcomings that it inevitably will be substituted with another more convenient language in foreseen future REGARDLESS OF POLITICAL DEVELOPMENTS. And I will not now talk about banal and obvious shortcomings of English like an enormous disparity between spelling and pronunciation etc. English language obviously being somewhat creolized and oversimplified in history has MUCH MORE SERIOUS PROBLEMS.

For example I know Armenian, Russian and English and I can say for sure when working with large arrays of text information there are tasks which I do in Armenian or Russian in a couple of seconds, the same tasks in English are becoming a real pain in the arse.

I am pretty sure that English language, which is extremely context dependent, flooded to unbelievable extent with homonyms, paronyms, dubious polysemy etc, full of illogical conventions etc has zero chance to be a lingua franca exactly beginning from the minute when machines will start to listen to and talk human languages.

And of course I am silent about aesthetic side of problem. The most beautiful English text being translated literally for example into Russian sounds in Russian like an essay of 5th grade schoolboy! But the essay of 5th grade Russian schoolboy being translated literally into English will sound like a masterpiece.

[Lábaru]

Well, the Spanish is growing strong in America, there are not a television series where the protagonists do not say a few words in Spanish, we'll see in the next decades.

[Wulfhere]

No. English is a curse.
It's a wonderful language to simply explain simple things, and an inadequate tool when dealing with intricate and important ideas.

To those who don't understand it well enough, no doubt.

[Libertas]

I don't care what language dominates as long as it uses the western Latin alphabet.

Even Kemal Ataturk had the good sense to adopt it for Turkey.

[Nglund]

The Chinese are learning english so even if they continue to enjoy economic success and more and more westerners learn some chinese, this will not in of itself topple the position of english as lingua franca. Germans doing business in India will not switch from english to chinese. This is just the same as how greek remained the lingua franca of the middle-east long after the end of Greek rule.

I second that.
The English language still has a future. The fact that the US of A will cease to become a hyperpower does not necessarily mean that English hegemony will follow the same path.
To answer your question, the only thing that will stop English linguistic hegemony is English itself. Once the gap between formal English and slangy English become absurdly wide, the dialectal variants as we know them will probably become part of an English linguistic family. New World and Australasian dialects will most likely gain increasingly distinct variants in the process.

[Grumpy Cat]

English-language hegemony is our own fault. We all give into the Anglo sense of entitlement when they visit our countries/provinces/towns/neighbourhoods and speak English to them.

Yeah, I know it's just easier that way.

And I am probably the most guilty of it. I speak exclusively English online.

But English people don't like it when people speak other languages in their neck of the woods. I am French and grew up in Halifax, I had people threaten me with rape (I shit you not). They are the worst for chimping out in that regard, but when we demand our languages be respected in our own space, they make us out to be the bad guys.

[purple]

Hopefully. I would like to see Russian as franca lingua, but since English is in the forefront now, I guess my dream won't happen soon. Once there was Greek, then it was Latin, then French, now English...What's next? Global languages change almost every 100-150 years, some last even up to 400. It's about time the new france lingua appears. It can be Chinese, Indian, Arabic, or Russian, judging by their economical and political power. I believe Spanish will be always the 2nd or 3rd most spoken, but never the most-spoken and learned language as in the case of English, Latin, or French:thumb001:

[Wulfhere]

I second that.
The English language still has a future. The fact that the US of A will cease to become a hyperpower does not necessarily mean that English hegemony will follow the same path.
To answer your question, the only thing that will stop English linguistic hegemony is English itself. Once the gap between formal English and slangy English become absurdly wide, the dialectal variants as we know them will probably become part of an English linguistic family. New World and Australasian dialects will most likely gain increasingly distinct variants in the process.

As long as modern communications and recording technology exists, English won't split into different languages. It may, arguably have been going in that direction. I sometimes find it difficult to understand American films from the 1930s, for example. Not so with modern American films, however. The language has drawn closer together in that time.

[Wulfhere]

Hopefully. I would like to see Russian as franca lingua, but since English is in the forefront now, I guess my dream won't happen soon. Once there was Greek, then it was Latin, then French, now English...What's next? Global languages change almost every 100-150 years, some last even up to 400. It's about time the new france lingua appears. It can be Chinese, Indian, Arabic, or Russian, judging by their economical and political power. I believe Spanish will be always the 2nd or 3rd most spoken, but never the most-spoken and learned language as in the case of English, Latin, or French:thumb001:

If it was ever going to be Russian, it would have been so during the Cold War when Russia was a superpower. It never quite happened though, despite Anthony Burgess making up a whole new slang based on Russian for A Clockwork Orange.

[Racial Observer 1814]

English is one of the greatest gifts that England has given the world. I for one am very happy that I don't have to waste my time learning some crappy foreign language like French or German.



There is no need to insult other tongues. This is the attitude that too many proponents of English display that I am talking about.

[Racial Observer 1814]

This question was settled in 1763 at the conclusion of the Seven Years War. If you Frenchies had fought a little better or colonized competently we'd be bitching about French language hegemony instead.



First off, nobody here is bitiching about it, and people who are afraid that their native/historical heritage tongues are being threatened do not deserve to have their legit fears dismissed as mere "Bitching". How do you feel about Spanish in the USA Joe? I am just pointing out that no language need have it's turf encroached upon, international status or no international status.

[Racial Observer 1814]

English is fine and a beatiful language.



But that is not the issue here. The issue here is why does a language with a large native speaker bloc in both the first and third worlds as well as the additional status of being the world's lingua franca in many areas need to encroach on the blocs of other languages? When is enough enough?

[Racial Observer 1814]

I adore most English accents and although my Russian is much better than my English I still prefer English ...


Why?

[Racial Observer 1814]

No. English is a curse.
It's a wonderful language to simply explain simple things, and an inadequate tool when dealing with intricate and important ideas.

Every civilisation began to decay from the moment it went unilingual (China, the Arabc/muslim empire). The Roman empire was able to develop over a longer time span due to the internal competition between Latin and Greek.

Europe never was more influential and inventive than in the years 1880-1914, when English, French and German were perceived as equally important.

A one-language civilisation is inherently doomed.



An interesting perspective. I am not sure I agree that a one-language civilization is doomed though. The way I see it, a small state with a language unique within it's borders can do just fine by translating all it needs from the outside world, and big languages spoken in multiple countries can be self-sustaining and translate what they need to.

[Terek]

Interesting... I actually teach English right now in a school as one of my jobs I work, but I won't be doing it long. I think it's important to learn because it is an international language like it or not, but at the same time, I think I would say that I am a linguistic preservationist... that everyone should speak the native language of their people.
I am more annoyed by Russian-language hegemony honestly. When Caucasians (Circassians and Vainakhs among their own people) speak Russian to each other it is annoying.

[Supreme American]

The Chinese and Indians are learning English, so I guess the answer is no, nothing can stop it.

It's a matter of international business. What's the problem with it?

[Racial Observer 1814]

The Chinese and Indians are learning English, so I guess the answer is no, nothing can stop it.



If true than that is truly a shame. There should not just be on language spoken in all nations.

[Racial Observer 1814]

Interesting... I actually teach English right now in a school as one of my jobs I work, but I won't be doing it long. I think it's important to learn because it is an international language like it or not, but at the same time, I think I would say that I am a linguistic preservationist... that everyone should speak the native language of their people.
I am more annoyed by Russian-language hegemony honestly. When Caucasians (Circassians and Vainakhs among their own people) speak Russian to each other it is annoying.




Nobody is contesting it's international status. But it is NOT the only international language, and when other tongues had their day as the big lingua franca, none of them threatened English on it's turf, nor other international languages. French, Portugese, Arabic, Spanish, and many other languages are also international.

I agree about the annoyance part, just substitute English for Russian.

[Racial Observer 1814]

It's a matter of international business. What's the problem with it?



So internationl business cannot be held in any other language? Why not? :confused:

[Terek]

Nobody is contesting it's international status. But it is NOT the only international language, and when other tongues had their day as the big lingua franca, none of them threatened English on it's turf, nor other international languages. French, Portugese, Arabic, Spanish, and many other languages are also international.

I agree about the annoyance part, just substitute English for Russian.


I agree, also I think it is not so much a problem that it's the main international language... it is something international business can agree on, but also you should know that it doesn't mean that everybody can speak English. I work in finance, and I have met people who speak English horribly... so the other languages still have function.

And I still think Russian-language hegemony is more annoying. In the beginning it was not a choice, now there are people today who will just speak Russian to eachother because they are too lazy to maintain their own language, or other people are and they won't understand it if not in Russian. Some people see no use for ethnic languages.
I am a bitch though, I insist to speak my language:D

[Racial Observer 1814]

[QUOTE=Groznenka;767121]I agree, also I think it is not so much a problem that it's the main international language... it is something international business can agree on, but also you should know that it doesn't mean that everybody can speak English. I work in finance, and I have met people who speak English horribly... so the other languages still have function.


What are you agreeing with exactly? :confused:



[QUOTE]And I still think Russian-language hegemony is more annoying. In the beginning it was not a choice, now there are people today who will just speak Russian to eachother because they are too lazy to maintain their own language, or other people are and they won't understand it if not in Russian. Some people see no use for ethnic languages.


And THIS is the attitude people have with English, and it is this attitude that I have a problm with. they act like just because of this status of English that other languages have NO value.



I am a bitch though, I insist to speak my language:D

LOL this is good! :D:D

[Comte Arnau]

The hegemony of English will have an end, just like there was an end to all other linguistic hegemonies in the past. Only naive people with a simple "presentist" mindset can't perceive this.

Most past hegemonies are seen now as 'regional', but let us not be anachronistic and think about how the map of the world was conceived back in those times. They were not that regional. In a more realistic way, though, it is true that English is the first real global language, although French began to set a precedent. Now most of the countries in the world which used to learn French as the first foreign language or used it at international meetings have definitely changed into English, with a few exceptions in Africa.

This current English hegemony is obviously a heritage of the British Empire, continued and enhanced by the American Empire and the beginning of a real global era, which has given to English a solid seat for years, so don't expect many radical changes for this first half of the 21st century. I don't think most of us live enough to see the clear end of this hegemony.

I agree, though, with the comment about English not being an ideal language for machines because of its statistically high frequency of homonyms, which will make it hard for speaking machines to discriminate words by their real meaning. Either English adopts a new radical change and becomes a 'common' language but quite different from what it is today, or regional focuses will occur. And no doubt that if a new superpower emerges, in the new way it does -not like now-, the language they use will gain a new hegemony, even if little by little. English would then fade gradually in the way French has progressively done.

Paradoxically, the definite 'world' language will be the one to be spoken by the first real colonies outside Earth. :)

[Bardamu]

I only spoke english 2 or 3 times in my life. I think foreign people only use it if they have to, so in that sense i don't see english taking over anything.

I don't understand how you can be conversant in a language you never use?

[Damião de Góis]

I don't understand how you can be conversant in a language you never use?

What do you mean?

[Bardamu]

What do you mean?

You said only 2 or 3 times in your life have you spoken English and I was wondering how you could be proficient while using a language so seldom. You obviously write English much more often.

[Comte Arnau]

You said only 2 or 3 times in your life have you spoken English and I was wondering how you could be conversant while using a language so seldom. You obviously write English much more often.

Your average European doesn't use English in real life very often, unless he's working at a touristic resort, in business/diplomacy or doing an Erasmus. For the rest, it's mainly a cyberlanguage, useful to understand songs. :)

[Damião de Góis]

You said only 2 or 3 times in your life have you spoken English and I was wondering how you could be proficient while using a language so seldom. You obviously write English much more often.

Yes, i use it here :D
I also read english everyday at work. But to speak it is a completely different thing. That i've only done 2 or 3 times when speaking to tourists or foreigners.

[Ænglisc]

English is one of the greatest gifts that England has given the world. I for one am very happy that I don't have to waste my time learning some crappy foreign language like French or German.

Oh my god you are so ignorant..

[Piparskeggr]

How about a little different perspective from someone whose language is Standard American English (with some idiomatic variance)?

I learned French in Grammar School and Junior High School, I was a passable C - B student, as I was with German in High School. However, owing to disuse, I have lost the vast majority of what I once had. As I've gotten older, my facility for learning anything beyond a few phrases has gotten smaller and smaller, regardless of the tongue (I've tried to add Latin, Anglo-Saxon, Danish, Icelandic, Italian and Greek).

When I was in Italy and Germany with the Air Force, I think my efforts to speak with the aid of travelers' phrase books bought me pity; folks were kind enough to find someone on their staff who spoke English.

I very much appreciate that those whose cradle tongues are not my own have done me the courtesy of learning mine. My life is enriched by an untold numbers of folks I will never meet outside of this cyberspace, because they have chosen to communicate in a manner I can understand.

Thank you.

[SaxonCeorl]

I wish we would go back to Latin for inter-European matters.

[Comte Arnau]

I wish we would go back to Latin for inter-European matters.

Latina lingua Europae vera lingua est.

[Racial Observer 1814]

The hegemony of English will have an end, just like there was an end to all other linguistic hegemonies in the past. Only naive people with a simple "presentist" mindset can't perceive this.

Most past hegemonies are seen now as 'regional', but let us not be anachronistic and think about how the map of the world was conceived back in those times. They were not that regional. In a more realistic way, though, it is true that English is the first real global language, although French began to set a precedent. Now most of the countries in the world which used to learn French as the first foreign language or used it at international meetings have definitely changed into English, with a few exceptions in Africa.

This current English hegemony is obviously a heritage of the British Empire, continued and enhanced by the American Empire and the beginning of a real global era, which has given to English a solid seat for years, so don't expect many radical changes for this first half of the 21st century. I don't think most of us live enough to see the clear end of this hegemony.

I agree, though, with the comment about English not being an ideal language for machines because of its statistically high frequency of homonyms, which will make it hard for speaking machines to discriminate words by their real meaning. Either English adopts a new radical change and becomes a 'common' language but quite different from what it is today, or regional focuses will occur. And no doubt that if a new superpower emerges, in the new way it does -not like now-, the language they use will gain a new hegemony, even if little by little. English would then fade gradually in the way French has progressively done.

Paradoxically, the definite 'world' language will be the one to be spoken by the first real colonies outside Earth. :)



Good points, but here is where I run into trouble. In French's heyday, the Anglosphere was not threatened, nor the Hispanosphere, the Arabisphere, etc. English is overstepping boundaries when I hear a BBC report that Germany is enacting measures to protect German from English intrusion, in GERMANY.

[Racial Observer 1814]

Your average European doesn't use English in real life very often, unless he's working at a touristic resort, in business/diplomacy or doing an Erasmus. For the rest, it's mainly a cyberlanguage, useful to understand songs. :)



The constant habit of telling people they HAVE to learn English if they want to "Make it" or "Have opportunities" would seem to contradict this opinion you have.

[Damião de Góis]

The constant habit of telling people they HAVE to learn English if they want to "Make it" or "Have opportunities" would seem to contradict this opinion you have.

He was telling the truth. The average european won't speak english in his everyday life, that would be weird.

[Occident]

The constant habit of telling people they HAVE to learn English if they want to "Make it" or "Have opportunities" would seem to contradict this opinion you have.

All major languages increase communication opportunities, which in turn increase economic and social opportunities. English is unique only in that it opens the greater portion of these opportunities at this point in time.

At my university here in China, the vast majority of Europeans talk to each in English until such time as their chinese skills reach a point where they can (if they want) switch over (some still prefer English). It is not a sad thing that we can communicate with each other. Indeed, many Europeans have told me comming to Asia has been good for improving two of their foreign languages (english and chinese), wheras I have only improved on the one (chinese).

[Racial Observer 1814]

He was telling the truth. The average european won't speak english in his everyday life, that would be weird.


Well that is certainly good to hear.

[Racial Observer 1814]

[QUOTE=Occident;767984]All major languages increase communication opportunities, which in turn increase economic and social opportunities.



Well it would be nice for this to be acknowledged.



[QUOTE]At my university here in China, the vast majority of Europeans talk to each in English until such time as their chinese skills reach a point where they can (if they want) switch over (some still prefer English). It is not a sad thing that we can communicate with each other. Indeed, many Europeans have told me comming to Asia has been good for improving two of their foreign languages (english and chinese), wheras I have only improved on the one (chinese).


No, what is sad is this idea that English is the only language good for that.

[Occident]

Do you use English daily in Quebec?

[Occident]

[QUOTE]



Well it would be nice for this to be acknowledged.


[QUOTE]


No, what is sad is this idea that English is the only language good for that.

If we all picked a different language for international communication there wouldn't be interinternational communication to the same degree. I cant pick Spanish and my German friend pick Italian, or my Thai friend choose Russian. Of course we can all choose to learn these languages and many of us do, but when we all get together we want to be understood and pick the most conveniant language, English. Your experience of living in a bilingual country is not comparable to the situation in a highly mutlilingual enviroment where we all desire to talk to each other.

[Bardamu]

It is a curse to have your tongue become universal as the world can then move in on you all that much easier.

[Occident]

It is a curse to have your tongue become universal because the world can then move to your land all the easier.

Funny, most negroes and muslims I've met fresh of the boat dont seem to have very good English skills.

[Damião de Góis]

It is a curse to have your tongue become universal as the world can then move in on you all that much easier.

Don't worry, i have no intention of moving to any english speaking country. :D
Or to any coutry for that matter, but english speaking ones wouldn't really be a priority if i eventually moved.

I know i'm only one person, but hey... it's something.

[Racial Observer 1814]

No, I do not use English every day in Quebec Occident. As a matter of fact, I try my best not to. French is the official language here.

[Occident]

No, I do not use English every day in Quebec Occident. As a matter of fact, I try my best not to. French is the official language here.

Well that's what I thought. I'm trying to ascertain what you are implying when you say English is encrouching on other language blocs. It seems you had expected that Europeans use English everyday. That this is not your experience of English in Quebec, despite being situated in a vast continant of english speaking people and in political union with an Anglo derived people, suggests French in Canada is perfectly secure and will not be going out of use.

[Mercury]

Well I have to say I really don't understand this anti-English attitude. For one I am glad that an Indo-European, and a Germanic language at that, is on top. It's much preferable than Mandarin or Arabic being lingua franca. I really don't see any reason to complain. To call it an ugly or backwards language is plain dishonest, look at Shakespeare and any english-speaking poet for that matter.

[Occident]

Well I have to say I really don't understand this anti-English attitude. For one I am glad that an Indo-European, and a Germanic language at that, is on top. It's much preferable than Mandarin or Arabic being lingua franca. I really don't see any reason to complain. To call it an ugly or backwards language is plain dishonest, look at Shakespeare and any english-speaking poet for that matter.

I know, right, and then we are accused of devaluing other people's languages. The truth is most English speakers are very impressed with the foreignors we meet who speak multiple languages, skills most Europeans take for granted, to the envy of the greater portions of British and Americans.

And to the complaints about homonyms! If the lingua franca really does change to Chinese you will find out what it really means to say a language has alot of these!

[The Lawspeaker]

No. English is a curse.
It's a wonderful language to simply explain simple things, and an inadequate tool when dealing with intricate and important ideas.

Every civilisation began to decay from the moment it went unilingual (China, the Arabc/muslim empire). The Roman empire was able to develop over a longer time span due to the internal competition between Latin and Greek.

Europe never was more influential and inventive than in the years 1880-1914, when English, French and German were perceived as equally important.

A one-language civilisation is inherently doomed.
I agree with you here. The strength of Europe is the fact that has several leading civilisations (Britain, France, Germany, Italy and Russia) each with it's own cultural and linguistic zones of influence. The hegemony of English (however convenient in the short run) has done much to destroy the natural balance of Europe.

[Racial Observer 1814]

Well that's what I thought. I'm trying to ascertain what you are implying when you say English is encrouching on other language blocs.



Because I never hear anyone telling people that they should learn French when French has a large bloc. Because I never hear anyone telling people they should learn Portugese which has a large bloc. Because I never hear that either for Arabic, Spanish, Russian, or any other large-bloc language either. Because I hear about people not wanting to sing in their native tongue but English for the Eurovision competition. Because I hear a report from BBC about German needing protection from English in Germany. Because I hear about pressure on Latin Americans to learn English, as if Spanish was meaningless. Because I hear about youth learning English to follow USA pop culture as if the pop culture in their own native language/nation was worthless, and a million other examples I could name.




It seems you had expected that Europeans use English everyday.


No, just about the other blocs and the examples of the youth.



[QUOTE]That this is not your experience of English in Quebec, despite being situated in a vast continant of english speaking people and in political union with an Anglo derived people, suggests French in Canada is perfectly secure and will not be going out of use.


I do not want to get into the Canadien French-English problem here, because it is a topic that deserves it's own thread, and because it can get very ugly very quickly, but let me just say that I am one man making a decision about which language to live in.

[Racial Observer 1814]

Well I have to say I really don't understand this anti-English attitude.


I and many others do not understand this anti-any other language attitude from English partisans.


I really don't see any reason to complain.


I guess you wouldn't since it is not your tongue that is threatened.



To call it an ugly or backwards language is plain dishonest, look at Shakespeare and any english-speaking poet for that matter.


Well I am not doing that here, but some English partisans are no angels either when it comes to that.

[Occident]

Because I never hear anyone telling people that they should learn French when French has a large bloc. Because I never hear anyone telling people they should learn Portugese which has a large bloc. Because I never hear that either for Arabic, Spanish, Russian, or any other large-bloc language either. Because I hear about people not wanting to sing in their native tongue but English for the Eurovision competition. Because I hear a report from BBC about German needing protection from English in Germany. Because I hear about pressure on Latin Americans to learn English, as if Spanish was meaningless. Because I hear about youth learning English to follow USA pop culture as if the pop culture in their own native language/nation was worthless, and a million other examples I could name.






No, just about the other blocs and the examples of the youth.


[QUOTE]


I do not want to get into the Canadien French-English problem here, because it is a topic that deserves it's own thread, and because it can get very ugly very quickly, but let me just say that I am one man making a decision about which language to live in.

Its not enough to say a language has a large bloc. The only four really worthwile places that speak French are France, Quebec, Belgium, and Switzerland. Most people aren't interested in the Congo so much.

By comparison many people are interested in North America, some with Britain or Australia, others want to go to South Africa. Some are going into highly international enviroments and need a language that most will understand. There is far greater number of potential reasons to want to learn English.

That many youth want to follow US pop culture isn't so terrible, and afterall is a sympton rather than cause of a more general problem in European culture. That problem is a lack of confidance in our own culture and institutions, probably stemming from the disasters that befell the continant in the 20th century. As these wounds heal the problem wont be so severe. As a matter fact it probably isn't as bad as you imagine already. I used to believe most Europeans listened to all the same music and watched the same TV shows as Anglos, so often had I heard of our cultural dominance. As it turns out they have plenty of their own cultural output in all artistic spheres, with the possible of exception of extreme high budget cinema.

I appreciate the linguistic situation in Canada is its own situation, which is possibly why you are so defensive about the issue. That doesn't mean Europeans are in the same boat.

[Occident]

Well I am not doing that here, but some English partisans are no angels either when it comes to that.

Only one person in this thread has expressed such a rediculously narrow attitude from an Anglo perspective and that's a guy who wants The Midlands to secede from England and form a heathen matriarchy, hardly a representative sample. By comparison the English language has been described as ugly and infantile by a selection of our European friends.

I will reiterate that I am aware you come from a country where language has been a politcal issue and ethnic identifier for some time, but most of the rest of us do not have this excuse.

[Incal]

I really doubt it. English is a basic and really easy language to learn. Can't think of an easier language at the moment.

[Joe McCarthy]

I agree with you here. The strength of Europe is the fact that has several leading civilisations (Britain, France, Germany, Italy and Russia) each with it's own cultural and linguistic zones of influence. The hegemony of English (however convenient in the short run) has done much to destroy the natural balance of Europe.

That linguistic diversity just led to decline in the long run. While you guys killed each other we sat back, united, made money, and power transferred to us, all with one language, English.

[Wulfhere]

Good points, but here is where I run into trouble. In French's heyday, the Anglosphere was not threatened, nor the Hispanosphere, the Arabisphere, etc. English is overstepping boundaries when I hear a BBC report that Germany is enacting measures to protect German from English intrusion, in GERMANY.

There are no "boundaries". If people prefer to use English, then no power in the world can stop them.

[Bardamu]

Don't worry, i have no intention of moving to any english speaking country. :D
Or to any coutry for that matter, but english speaking ones wouldn't really be a priority if i eventually moved.

I know i'm only one person, but hey... it's something.

Actually, you are not the concern. If you are white, and not otherwise criminally or culturally Marxist inclined, then you are more than welcome to these shores. The concern is China, and every other third world piss-hole where English is taught as a second language as a matter of course.

[Racial Observer 1814]

There are no "boundaries". If people prefer to use English, then no power in the world can stop them.



Thank you for displaying the very arrogant attitude I am talking about. And if you want to think their are no language boundaries that should be respected, then don't cry when racial boundaries aren't either. :)

[Racial Observer 1814]

That linguistic diversity just led to decline in the long run. While you guys killed each other we sat back, united, made money, and power transferred to us, all with one language, English.


Your point?

[Wulfhere]

Thank you for displaying the very arrogant attitude I am talking about. And if you want to think their are no language boundaries that should be respected, then don't cry when racial boundaries aren't either. :)

On the contrary, the only boundaries are those that can be enforced. The people responsible for swamping our homelands with scum are our own craven governments, not the scum themselves.

[Damião de Góis]

Actually, you are not the concern. If you are white, and not otherwise criminally or culturally Marxist inclined, then you are more than welcome to these shores. The concern is China, and every other third world piss-hole where English is taught as a second language as a matter of course.

:D

I was half joking. I think Australia or California would be nice, actually.

[Odoacer]

No one ever bothers to mention how English is increasingly the victim of its own success - every day bastardized in a thousand ways with words & names of foreign derivation, often not even properly Anglicized! Ciao, à la mode, garage, Mumbai, coup d'état, kitsch, avante-garde, Beijing, angst, graffiti, panache, Istanbul, mano a mano, ...

It all began in 1066: Damn the Normans & their foul Frankish tongue!

;)