What is "Central Europe"?

[riverman]

Vote on the poll and discuss!! :thumbs up

[morski]

The former German and Austro-Hungarian empires.

[Europa]

Whatever you imagine in you head...I can't belive this nonsense continues "An Yankee trying to understand".

[riverman]

Whatever you imagine in you head...I can't belive this nonsense continues "An Yankee trying to understand".

Do you have any idea of how stupid your comment is? Don't answer that.



:ranger:

[Aviane]

I feel Eastern France, Switzerland, South Germany, Austria, Czechia, Slovakia and Slovenia are more part of Central Europe.

Their ways and habits along with their culture resembles everything that is said.

[Damião de Góis]

Swtizerland, Austria, Czech Republic and southern Germany. Basically when i think o central Europe, Vienna, Prague and Munich come to mind.

[rashka]

This is Central Europe:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Central_Europe_(CIA).jpg

[Aviane]

^^This above is a much better defintion than even mine.

[Loddfafner]

If you do not know someone who knows someone who can sing an opera aria or play chamber music, you are not central European.

[Queen B]

This is Central Europe:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Central_Europe_(CIA).jpg

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

[Ouistreham]

Central Europe = wet summers + icy winters, hence a special type of flora, which conditions specific requirements as for agriculture and available foodstuffs.

Fermeted cabbage used to be the only source for vitamins after November.

Consequently, Central Europe equates the Sauerkraut Belt:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Floristic_regions_in_Europe_%28english%29.png/751px-Floristic_regions_in_Europe_%28english%29.png

[Racial Observer 1814]

Other: Germany, Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, Austria, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Albania.

[rashka]

Serbian sauerkraut dish:
There is not a day that goes by when Serbs don't eat Sauerkraut = Kiseli Kupus. It's their national dish.


http://0.tqn.com/d/easteuropeanfood/1/0/r/m/-/-/sauerkraut-with-bacon-byNisa.jpg

[rashka]

Serbs even make Sauerkraut pie. It is very tasty.

http://www.coolinarika.com/repository/images/_variations/8/2/82dab576ae654b42fffaaee41839871a_header.jpg

[Geminus]

East Europeans also eat saurkraut, just more easily prepared.

But we are the original Krauts :cool:

[riverman]

You forgot to include Lithuania in the poll.

Lietuva..."Central Europe"?? :icon_neutral:

[hajduk]

Other: Germany, Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, Austria, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Albania.

I won't speak for Yugoslavia, but surely Bulgaria, Albania and Southern Romania are not by any definition Central European.

[riverman]

why not?

I've never heard of Lithuania or any of the baltic states being referred to as "central Europe".

[riverman]

I can say the same about France.


So your point is that because France isn't central Europe but it's on the poll, you want Lietuva on the poll too?

What else do want on the poll, Spain?, Sicily?... Iceland?


:D

[Corvus]

I consider neither France nor Lithuania as Central Europe.
In my eyes it´s just Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Slovenia

[riverman]

..........

[riverman]

Not really.
It shows your lack of knowledge. I guess not an American but European should do those poles.

Fail.
No-one has suggested that Lithuania is central europe or should even be on the poll.

[Peyrol]

AHAHAHAHA balkans central Europe, AHAHAHAHAHAH

[Peyrol]

I'm not very well familiar with Balkan cultures, but if it can be included in Central Europe, than there must be arguments.

Balkan geographycally is south-east; culturally, idem for the slavic countires, except Greece, Hungary and Albania.

[The Ripper]

Balkan geographycally is south-east; culturally, idem for the slavic countires, except Greece, Hungary and Albania.

Some areas of the Balkan have a long history under the Austro-Hungarian sphere of influence, which I assume is classified "Central European".

[Peyrol]

Some areas of the Balkan have a long history under the Austro-Hungarian sphere of influence, which I assume is classified "Central European".

Hungary, Western Romania (Transylvania) and Slovenia maybe, but not certainly Serbia, Albania or Bulgaria.

[riverman]

Well, I suggested that it should be in the poll. This is not my original opinion:

Some quotes mentioning Lithuania:






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe#Current_views_on_Central_Europe

East Central Europe according to Paul Robert Magocsi:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:East_Central_Europe.PNG







http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East-Central_Europe

As you can see sometimes Lithuania is included in Central Europe, sometimes not. Lithuanians themselves are not quite sure where their country is.

Well, a couple of criticisms here. The first issue is the religious one, which really seems far -fetched as an actual ethnic boundary marker, especially considering that Orthodox Christianity covers more than one church, and a large area, all the way from Greece to northern Russia.
Secondly, this central European proposition is even self titled "East Central Europe", not central Europe, and furthermore is taking into account past borders, commonwealths of which the ethnic connectivity is either not there, or tenuous (Polish Lithuania Commonwealth).
Lastly, if countries are being divided between one half 'western' and another half 'central' you can be sure there will be constant confusion about whether a state is western, central, or eastern, and does this have any significance regarding ethnicity?
Regardless, you can view Lietuva as Central Europe, I don't really care, and in fact those proposed "East Central Europe" areas wouldn't even change much in how I'd call my own heritage "East European" or "West European" etc.

[The Ripper]

Well, a couple of criticisms here. The first issue is the religious one, which really seems far -fetched as an actual ethnic boundary marker, especially considering that Orthodox Christianity covers more than one church, and a large area, all the way from Greece to northern Russia.

Actually its not far-fetched as all, as Central Europeans are not an ethnos, but a rather vaguely defined cultural, political and economic sphere within Europe, usually closely connected to the German populated areas and areas with large German minorities. In this sense, the Baltic countries have strong claims to Mitteleuropa. The traditional divison of Europe into East and West has very much to do with religion and the Western and Eastern Roman Empire. It's the basis of the cultural and civilizational division.

[Corvus]

Hungary, Western Romania (Transylvania) and Slovenia maybe, but not certainly Serbia, Albania or Bulgaria.

I agree, you can add Croatia as well, they are culturally in terms
of architecture and mentality marked by the Austrian Hungarian monarchy.

Serbia, Albania or Bulgaria no way.

[riverman]

Actually its not far-fetched as all, as Central Europeans are not an ethnos, but a rather vaguely defined cultural, political and economic sphere within Europe, usually closely connected to the German populated areas and areas with large German minorities. In this sense, the Baltic countries have strong claims to Mitteleuropa. The traditional divison of Europe into East and West has very much to do with religion and the Western and Eastern Roman Empire. It's the basis of the cultural and civilizational division.

This is where geography comes in, excluding the baltic states and the southern balkans.
Btw, this proposed East Central Europe is partly Orthodox church territory, so if you're agreeing to the more easterly idea of central Europe then you pretty much have to abandon the religious division idea.
I personally am not opposed to the East Central Europe idea.

[The Ripper]

This is where geography comes in, excluding the baltic states and the southern balkans.
Btw, this proposed East Central Europe is partly Orthodox church territory, so if you're agreeing to the more easterly idea of central Europe then you pretty much have to abandon the religious division idea.
I personally am not opposed to the East Central Europe idea.

I haven't proposed anything about "East Central Europe," I simply explained the concept of Mitteleuropa.


The German academic Ständiger Ausschuss für geographische Namen (Permanent Committee on Geographical Names) at the Federal Agency for Cartography and Geodesy refers to a territory roughly bounded by the river Rhine in the west, the Bug in the east, the North Sea and the Baltic coast in the north, as well as the Alps and the Adriatic Sea in the south. The area is covered by the modern states of:

Austria
Croatia
Czech Republic
Germany
Hungary
Liechtenstein
Poland
Slovakia
Slovenia
Switzerland

Baltic states (Baltikum):

Lithuania
Latvia
Estonia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitteleuropa

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Grossgliederung_Europas.png

[riverman]

I haven't proposed anything about "East Central Europe," I simply explained the concept of Mitteleuropa.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitteleuropa

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Grossgliederung_Europas.png

It is an interesting idea, perhaps I'm the only one who finds this grouping of countries somewhat ambiguous in nature and possibly even a bit humorous. In any case it's someones opinion, and I think I'll leave it at that for now.

[riverman]

I gave you quotes that did not mention Mittleeuropa. Mittleeuropa is not the only concept of Central Europe that includes Lithuania.

Well, my response would be the same, the "East Central Europe" idea, (which is the logical way to include Lithuania) is fine, but it necessarily abandons the religious division idea.

[EWtt]

Actually its not far-fetched as all, as Central Europeans are not an ethnos, but a rather vaguely defined cultural, political and economic sphere within Europe, usually closely connected to the German populated areas and areas with large German minorities. In this sense, the Baltic countries have strong claims to Mitteleuropa.

Lithuania didn't really have as much to do with the Germans as did Estonia and Latvia. Estonia and Latvia being included in the Mitteleuropa concept due to German influences makes sense to me, but with Lithuania, I think it has more to do with their ties with Poland and their Catholic background.

[riverman]

It's just interesting that you are trying to push through your own views while supposedly seeking to get objective results of a poll.

Those links you provided are certainly pushing views...
Anyways you're wrong, I'm not pushing views I'm merely being logical about how to approach the idea of "Central Europe"...in fact I seem to be the one here who ISN'T presenting some biased ideas...if you think that the 'religious separation' theory isn't biased and frankly "far out" then I would suggest you re-examine your history books.

[Zephyr]

After the WW2, the concept of Central Europe shifted from the Prussian and Austro-Hungarian Mitteleuropa to the Franco-German European Union.

That simple.

[Zephyr]

After the WW2, the concept of Central Europe shifted from the Prussian and Austro-Hungarian Mitteleuropa to the Franco-German European Union.

That simple.

And the capital shifted from Wien to Strasburg. Simple.

[Dilberth]

Some areas of the Balkan have a long history under the Austro-Hungarian sphere of influence, which I assume is classified "Central European".

It's only Continental Croatia and Vojvodina,even if Slavonia and Vojvodina spent their share of time under Ottomans,so if you really want the truth it's just part of Central and NW Croatia.

[Comte Arnau]

Those lands which speak German, Hungarian or are Slav-speaking but Catholic.

[Mosov]

The reason such a question can take 6 pages (and probably much more) is that these terms "central" "western" Europe are all ambiguous and don't have clear definitions. Depends if we are talking about geographic, cultural, historical, etc.

[Äike]

Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland and Austria. Slavs will always be Eastern-Europeans and foreign to people like Germans, even if they are Catholic.

[Dilberth]

Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland and Austria. Slavs will always be Eastern-Europeans and foreign to people like Germans, even if they are Catholic.

Beneleux countries are Western European.I will not comment other part of your post.

[The Ripper]

Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland and Austria. Slavs will always be Eastern-Europeans and foreign to people like Germans, even if they are Catholic.

Germans themselves quite readily include Slavic areas in Mitteleuropa, but if you say so...

[Äike]

Germans themselves quite readily include Slavic areas in Mitteleuropa, but if you say so...

I guess they don't live in cities that are 50% Slavic, if they did, then they would think otherwise.

[Comte Arnau]

Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland and Austria. Slavs will always be Eastern-Europeans and foreign to people like Germans, even if they are Catholic.

So does it mean that Prague is more Eastern than Tallinn too?

[Äike]

So does it mean that Prague is more Eastern than Tallinn too?

Geographically - Definitely not
Ethno-culturally - Yes

[riverman]

Those lands which speak German, Hungarian or are Slav-speaking but Catholic.

Interesting, considering Central Europes history and association with Protestantism. Lutherans etc...

[Rereg]

Ethno-culturally - Yes

:confused: WTF Culturally Czechs are much more "western" than all baltic states.

[Äike]

:confused: WTF Culturally Czechs are much more "western" than all baltic states.

The Estonians aren't Baltic, we are Finnic. The Czech are Slavs.

[Rereg]

The Estonians aren't Baltic, we are Finnic. The Czech are Slavs.

Culturally and historically Czechs aren't more "eastern" than Estonians and they are definitely more western than Finns.

[Comte Arnau]

Geographically - Definitely not
Ethno-culturally - Yes

I've been in Prague and Budapest (haven't been in Bratislava, though). Yes, Prague speaks a Slavic language, but everything from architecture to the people I saw was crying 'Central'. Same for Budapest, although this one looked already a bit influenced by the South, Hungarians were nicer and friendlier than cold Czechs.

To me, German-speaking territories are Central-West, while Hungary and Catholic Slavs are Central-East.


Interesting, considering Central Europes history and association with Protestantism. Lutherans etc...

Well, they form the whole North-West of Europe, not really Central. Actually, Bavaria and Austria have traditionally been Catholic.

[Hess]

I can say the same about France.

France definitely has more of a claim to Central Europe than the baltic countries.

[Äike]

France definitely has more of a claim to Central Europe than the baltic countries.

The Balts are Eastern-Europeans.

[Rereg]

and Catholic Slavs are Central-East.

You must know that Czechs were always fake- Catholics and generally they have Protestant mentality unlike Austrians and Bavarians. In the Czech Republic Germans has always been seen as Catholic fanatics.

[riverman]

Well, they form the whole North-West of Europe, not really Central. Actually, Bavaria and Austria have traditionally been Catholic.

Well I meant all of Germany in this instance, I don't think people were dividing up countries when they voted on the poll, I think it's easier to just go by countries anyway.

[The Ripper]

I guess they don't live in cities that are 50% Slavic, if they did, then they would think otherwise.

They lived in cities which even had Slavic majorities.

[The Ripper]

The Balts are Eastern-Europeans.

Then so are Finnics.

[Äike]

They lived in cities which even had Slavic majorities.

Are you talking about German migrants in Eastern-Europe, like in Prague?

I mean mainland Germany. It's easy to say that you are similar to some group of people if you don't live together with that group of people.

Slavic Poles and the Slavic Czech are different from the Germans. They just don't fit into the Central-European cultural definition. Geographically they might.

[Äike]

Then so are Finnics.

If you say so.

[Comte Arnau]

Well I meant all of Germany in this instance, I don't think people were dividing up countries when they voted on the poll, I think it's easier to just go by countries anyway.

Easier maybe, but very little accurate, as internal variety can be very high.

[The Ripper]

Are you talking about German migrants in Eastern-Europe, like in Prague?

I mean mainland Germany. It's easy to say that you are similar to some group of people if you don't live together with that group of people.

Slavic Poles and the Slavic Czech are different from the Germans. They just don't fit into the Central-European cultural definition. Geographically they might.

Germans regard(ed) majority Slavic areas as part of Mitteleuropa, as I originally said.

[Zephyr]

So does it mean that Prague is more Eastern than Tallinn too?


Geographically - Definitely not
Ethno-culturally - Yes

Yes, forget Saint Vitus, ethno-culturally everyone thinks of Prague as some sort of eastern enclave, people go shopping riding horses and when weekend comes they all get drunk and dance Kalinka.

Almost everyone in Prague lives from state welfare, is non-productive or has problems with drugs and crime overall. Being Slav is the key here.

[The Ripper]

If you say so.

If you say so.

[Rereg]

Slavic Poles and the Slavic Czech are different from the Germans. They just don't fit into the Central-European cultural definition.

Poles are totally different than Germans but Czechs culturally can fit in North-Germany.

[Leliana]

'Central Europe', that's Germany, Austria, Liechtenstein and Switzerland. :)

http://www.pekip-regionalgruppen.de/karte.png

Czechs are seen as East Europeans in Germany, Karl is right on the spot there.

[Comte Arnau]

East Germany was also seen as Eastern not so long ago.

[Leliana]

East Germany was also seen as Eastern not so long ago.
Not by us Germans.

[Duke]

who cares?

BTW, i dont consider Croatia central Europe, because CE have different mentality, and because we are not geographically.

BTW Estonia defiantly is a eastern country

[Dilberth]

who cares?

BTW, i dont consider Croatia central Europe, because CE have different mentality, and because we are not geographically.

BTW Estonia defiantly is a eastern country

Croatia is partly CE.

[Duke]

Croatia is partly CE.

it isnt, its influenced by a bit of CE culture, but in its core it isnt.

They are subhumans compared to us :rolleyes:

[Dilberth]

It was until 1918.What we have now is imposed on us,it's not natural order of things.

[The Ripper]

Czechs are seen as East Europeans in Germany, Karl is right on the spot there.

The concept of Central Europe / Mitteleuropa naturally suffered a serious blow due to the iron curtain and the cold war. East Germany, Estonia and Czechoslovakia were part of the East Bloc. Before that, however, all of them have been included in various definitions of Central Europe (by Germans).

[Duke]

It was until 1918.What we have now is imposed on us,it's not natural order of things.

really?

and till 1918 it wasn't?

[Dilberth]

really?

and till 1918 it wasn't?

How do you mean here?

[Duke]

How do you mean here?

we were soldiers of CE, not CE, it has to do with Turks, and being pressed from from all sides.

That is all i am going to say about that

[Styggnacke]

Central Europe = wet summers + icy winters, hence a special type of flora, which conditions specific requirements as for agriculture and available foodstuffs.

Fermeted cabbage used to be the only source for vitamins after November.

Consequently, Central Europe equates the Sauerkraut Belt:
Your map is messed up. Skåne, Sjælland and Blekinge aren't part of Central Europe. Scania and Sjælland neither in general have icy winters, rather mild winters actually.

[Odoacer]

Germany
Switzerland
Liechtenstein
Austria
Poland
Czechia
Slovakia
Hungary

France is Western, while Romania is just too far east to be "central," IMO. I don't count Slovenia because it is unambiguously south of the Alps, ergo Southern.

If Slovenia is included (i.e., we ignore Southern & Northern), then I add Croatia, Bosnia, Italy, Denmark, Norway, & Sweden. :P

[Dilberth]

we were soldiers of CE, not CE, it has to do with Turks, and being pressed from from all sides.

That is all i am going to say about that

Croatia is somwhere in between due to history.

[Insuperable]

Germany
Switzerland
Liechtenstein
Austria
Poland
Czechia
Slovakia
Hungary

France is Western, while Romania is just too far east to be "central," IMO. I don't count Slovenia because it is unambiguously south of the Alps, ergo Southern.

If Slovenia is included (i.e., we ignore Southern & Northern), then I add Croatia, Bosnia, Italy, Denmark, Norway, & Sweden. :P

I very much agree but Croatia was sometimes considered to be CE ( partial or whole ) and Bosnia and Herzegovina can not be CE in any case

[Mordid]

The Estonians aren't Baltic, we are Finnic. The Czech are Slavs.
To you, Slavic speaking people = Eastern Europe, lol. Macedonians are Slavs, but they aren't Eastern Europeans just like Austrians who are just Germanic speaking Central Europeans to the core.

[Gaztelu]

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy66/Rijska/500px-Blank_Map_of_Europe_-w_boundaries_svg.png

BTW, I consider Eastern France and Herceg-Bosna as Central European.

[Mordid]

Croatia is somwhere in between due to history.
From what I hear, Croatia is another planet.

[Odoacer]

I very much agree but Croatia was sometimes considered to be CE ( partial or whole ) and Bosnia and Herzegovina can not be CE in any case

Well, I would only include Bosnia if we're ignoring any North/South differentiation - essentially drawing a line straight down from the mouth of the Vistula River in Poland, which is somewhat unrealistic. If we go the other way & ignore any West/East differentiation, then you can add France, the Benelux, (southern) Belarus, Ukraine, (northern) Romania, Moldova, & ... (southern) Russia. :.... :lol:

[noricum]

I don't count Slovenia because it is unambiguously south of the Alps, ergo Southern.

If Slovenia is included (i.e., we ignore Southern & Northern), then I add Croatia, Bosnia, Italy, Denmark, Norway, & Sweden. :P

Large parts of Slovenia are within the Alps and at least the Northern part is definitely part of Central Europe. The river Sava makes a better boarder between Central and South-Eastern Europe imo.

http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu227/roapazeinli/slovenia_de.gif

Culturally Slovenia is Central European anyway.

Compare Slovenian and Austrian folksy music song:

http://youtu.be/B_4WfwBLcjg

http://youtu.be/hLbC3rfCdNg

[Odoacer]

Large parts of Slovenia are within the Alps and at least the Northern part is definitely part of Central Europe. The river Save makes a better boarder between Central and South-Eastern Europe imo.

Culturally Slovenia is Central European anyway.

Compare Slovenian and Austrian folksy music song:

http://youtu.be/B_4WfwBLcjg

http://youtu.be/hLbC3rfCdNg

True, worth considering.

[Allenson]

I dunno, something like this:

[Rereg]

Czechs are seen as East Europeans in Germany, Karl is right on the spot there.

I know that for most Germans Odra-River is border between Europe and Asia. :)

Seriously Czechs aren't more eastern european than Austrians. I mean their history, mentality and culture.

[Äike]

BTW Estonia defiantly is a eastern country

lol, all I can do is laugh at this notion.


Lithuania does not orient itself to Belarus or Ukraine for sure. Actually it's either Northern or Central Europe. Though Lithuanian politicians seem to lean towards the latter. Latvia perhaps will choose to follow Scandinavia.

Actually it's like this: Lithuanians say that they are Central-European and have strong ties with the Poles, Latvians say that they are Baltic and Riga is the capital of the Baltics and the most important city in the region. Estonians say that they aren't Baltic, that they are rather Nordic. A common "Baltic identity" has never existed among these 3 people.

[Rereg]

Actually it's like this: Lithuanians say that they are Central-European and have strong ties with the Poles

Lol... Lithuanians and Poles hate each other, We are enemies. Personally I think that Lithuanians are basically eastern europeans just like Russians and Moldovians.

[Äike]

Lol... Lithuanians and Poles hate each other, We are enemies. Personally I think that Lithuanians are basically eastern europeans just like Russians and Moldovians.

You both belonged to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and have more historical ties than most other European countries do to each other.

The grudge behind the Poles and the Lithuanians leaves me cold, you're both Eastern-Europeans and should make up.

[Siegfried]

South Germany, Austria, Liechtenstein, Hungary, Switzerland, N. Italy, and maybe the Czech Republic.

[Zephyr]

You both belonged to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and have more historical ties than most other European countries do to each other.

The grudge behind the Poles and the Lithuanians leaves me cold, you're both Eastern-Europeans and should make up.

Sometimes you just take your agenda off the scale... How are Lithuanians "eastern" while you stand "northern"?

[Äike]

Sometimes you just take your agenda off the scale... How are Lithuanians "eastern" while you stand "northern"?

Well, there are many reasons.

Estonians are Finnic people, who have a historical Lutheran background and are in the same cultural sphere with other Nordics. At the same time, Lithuanians are Catholics, they have a lot of history together with Poland and they come to Estonia to steal cars(;)).

I would group Poland, Lithuania and Latvia into a single group, while Estonia is among the Northerners for obvious reasons.

Latvian-Lithuanian-Polish parliaments even have the same names. :p

Saeima/Seimas/Sejm

[Harmonia]

Lol... Lithuanians and Poles hate each other, We are enemies. Personally I think that Lithuanians are basically eastern europeans just like Russians and Moldovians.


Whether Lithuanians and Poles hate each other or no, that doesn't change the fact we have cultural and historical ties. However, I view Poland as an central European country. I'm not sure about Lithuania, quite a lot of people considers Lithuania as central European, other considers us to be eastern European, there are also people who claims Lithuania to be northern European, though I'm quite sceptical about this one. We have some certain northern European features, but not as much to be considered 'northern', imo.

[Hess]

'Central Europe', that's Germany, Austria, Liechtenstein and Switzerland. :)

http://www.pekip-regionalgruppen.de/karte.png

Czechs are seen as East Europeans in Germany, Karl is right on the spot there.

Well, to be fair most Czechs do not see themselves as Eastern Europeans. Why do you think they're trying so hard to suck up to America and the EU? :laugh:

[Rereg]

These "we are enemies" is basically an issue of Polish minority in Lithuania of the last years. Polls showing mood changes towards Poles perfectly illustrate this.


NYjpd_3qrUQ



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_grdWjcnIIpg/SYi_tcImnlI/AAAAAAAAACM/lKLPlAAUj7k/s400/lithuania.JPG
Real face of lithuania. ;)

[lI]

Lietuva..."Central Europe"?? :icon_neutral:

To be honest, the only argument about Lithuania being Central European country that in my opinion is at least somewhat valid is the Geographical midpoint of Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_midpoint_of_Europe#Lithuania) being located there.
After a re-estimation of the boundaries of the continent of Europe in 1989, Jean-George Affholder, a scientist at the Institut Géographique National (French National Geographic Institute) determined that the Geographic Centre of Europe is located at 54°54′N 25°19′E . The method used for calculating this point was that of the centre of gravity of the geometrical figure of Europe. This point is located in Lithuania, specifically 26 kilometres (16 mi) north of its capital city, Vilnius, near the village of Purnuškės.

This location is the only one listed in the Guinness Book of World Records as the geographical centre of Europe.

But everyone knows that these divisions of Europe have little to do with geography..

[Zephyr]

Well, there are many reasons.

Estonians are Finnic people, who have a historical Lutheran background and are in the same cultural sphere with other Nordics. At the same time, Lithuanians are Catholics, they have a lot of history together with Poland and they come to Estonia to steal cars(;)).

I would group Poland, Lithuania and Latvia into a single group, while Estonia is among the Northerners for obvious reasons.

Latvian-Lithuanian-Polish parliaments even have the same names. :p

Saeima/Seimas/Sejm

The way you take every chance to say Estonia is nordic is exquisite, man.

"Well, in Estonia, a nordic country, tomatoes are red."

"Yesterday in Tallinn, a beautiful nordic city unlike Moscow, temperature was 10ºC."

:shrug:

[Waidewut]

Well, there are many reasons.

Estonians are Finnic people, who have a historical Lutheran background and are in the same cultural sphere with other Nordics. At the same time, Lithuanians are Catholics, they have a lot of history together with Poland and they come to Estonia to steal cars(;)).

I would group Poland, Lithuania and Latvia into a single group, while Estonia is among the Northerners for obvious reasons.

Latvian-Lithuanian-Polish parliaments even have the same names. :p

Saeima/Seimas/Sejm

:naughty2:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Europe_religion_map_en.png

[lI]

NYjpd_3qrUQ



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_grdWjcnIIpg/SYi_tcImnlI/AAAAAAAAACM/lKLPlAAUj7k/s400/lithuania.JPG
Real face of lithuania. ;)

God, not again :rolleyes:

I'll just repost it for ya ;)

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=586540&postcount=18

I have noticed much dislike towards Poles here by some Lithuanian users and have always wondered why. What is reasons that Lithuanians hate us so much? I have never encountered dislike towards Lithuanians in Poland.
If we put history aside, new problems are popping up in the relations of Poland and Lithuania. Ethnic minorities. Of all Poles living ABROAD, Polish minority in Lithuania, I could say, has the best living conditions compared to any other country in the world (I don't mean the economical, as it's really bad for all of us), but they're still saying that we're oppressing them and the rights of Polish minority are ignored. I can tell you that the "Students cart" of a Lithuanian is 3310 LTL, while that of minorities is 15% bigger, so a Polish student gets a cart containing 3806 LTL. Even when Lithuania has 40 times less Poles than USA has, we still have the biggest number of Polish schools, where you can get education in Polish language.

Now you might have heard about the "W" problem in Lithuania, where Poles are demanding their names on passports to be written in their alphabet (imagine if Chinese or Russians would be demanding the same, how it will be possible to identify a citizen?), also they demand to write streets in both languages, Polish and Lithuanian? But according to the constitution, which should be respected, we can't do that and what if we do that, what will be next?

Here's an example of street names, don't you think it's absurd since the Lithuanian one can be clearly read by anyone, but not by a Pole?
http://g.diena.lt/00/34/639edb.jpg

Firstly, I'd like to say that we are a diverse nation, as diverse as any other, so I'm not speaking in the name of ALL Lithuanians. But such phrases as "we are brotherly nations" or "there are no problems between both of us" would only show ignorance of past and nowadays political affairs.

The reasons are complex, but I will try to name them shortly.
As you know, or might not know, the "history schools" in both of our countries are different and in some aspects, various interpretations differ like black and white, so there there will always be a Pole laughing when Lithuanian tells his truth and vice-versa.

We can start from early Christianisation till nowadays and with that "Christianisation" came the Polonization, hundreds of years Lithuanian culture was being destroyed, but Poles like to speak for us and tell that those years were the best in our and their history, not minding our opinion. Please remember that the aim of every nationalist is a state covering ethnic nation. What is more, there are groups of Poles who tend to say that all those "achievements" during the commonwealth is only of a Polish nation also stating that all those wars (even including the 1410!) are the achievements of Poland, which is actually absurd.

Enough about the old days, the MOST painful point in history with Poland is Vilnius occupation. During the 1920 and 1939 years, what I bet you won't read in any Polish book, they tortured, killed and humiliated the Lithuanian citizens in Vilnius territory, not for any other reason, but because they were Lithuanians, closed Lithuanian organisations, confiscated Lithuanian books, magazines and so on. For the Lithuanian activity, many Lithuanian activists, priests and others were imprisoned. Even after we regained our historical capital, "Armia Krajowa" continued the genocide of Lithuanians mostly in the "post-occupated" areas, which I'm sure Ukrainians could prove as well as they suffered that. I know, I know, it's history, we have to live with it, maybe it would be fine, but Polish government and people of Poland still didn't acknowledge it and some still feel the need of annexing Vilnius (and other interwar lands) to Poland (according to the poll in Poland). But how are you reasoning it? Poland has no historical, nor ethnical, nor juridical rights to Vilnius, if you will say that Vilnius was widely inhabited by Poles and not by Lithuanians, I will tell you that according to 1863 released "Atlas of Historic Poland" in St. Petersburg by one of the Russian army captain R. D'Erkert, at that time in Vilnius territory 60% citizens were Lithuanians, almost 12% were Polish and others - Russians, Germans, Tartars, By's and so on. Even in Versailles Conference, researchers declared that there were 20% Poles in Vilnius province. Then according to German countings in 1943, the number of Poles were not only increased, but even overgrowed the Lithuanian one.

Again returning to the end of WW1, Poland did everything to turn France and Great Britain from Lithuanian aims, so the W. Wilson plans to connect ethnical Lithuanian lands from Gardins province in south till the Koenigsberg (Karaliaučius, nowadays Kaliningrad) collapsed. We had plans to connect the Koenigsberg, even the citizens of it showed the wish to connect with Lithuania, but all that failed as after Poland realized about Lithuanian plans to redislocate army from South-East to the Prussian border, they did an impact to Vilnius (which wasn't in a defence state), they broke the treaty of 1920. And after all that, Poles were the ones who voted AGAINST the Lithuanian independence in 1990.

You say there's no hatred towards Lithuanians?
The Foreign Affairs Minister of Poland Radoslaw Sikorski publicly and officially denied the occupation of Vilnius in 1920 and all the agression, so what can you expect from normal people of Poland if politicians stating that?

Recently I was checking some websites, where regular Poles stating their opinions about Lithuania, I can give you some thoughts: "Lithuanians beggars bowed to Stalin and gained Vilnius, which was stolen from Poles", "Lithuanians are wild Easterners, who were civilised by Poles", those are the softer replicas as examples for you, I just don't want to write all that, as that is low and odd.

I think, I have gone too far into the details, all is hiding under the mentality of both nations, sometimes Poles think they are a better nation than the other (chauvinism), remember the expression (jak litwyn to cham, jak polak to pan) and we Lithuanians are as stubborn as Samogitians.




BTW you are aware of the fact that people taking down the street signs in your video are none other than ethnic Poles ?
The interview with them starts here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYjpd_3qrUQ&t=1m57s

[Äike]

:naughty2:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Europe_religion_map_en.png


The largest religion in Latvia is Christianity,[7] though only about 7% of the population attends religious services regularly.[84] The largest groups as of 2006 were:

Evangelical Lutheran Church of Latvia – 450,000[85]
Roman Catholic – 430,000[85]
Orthodox – 350,000[85]

Latvians are 50/50 Catholic/Lutheran, while the Russian immigrants are Orthodox.

That 50% Lutheranism was one of the main Northern aspects about Latvia, that I have mentioned before.

But still, you're in the same category as Poles and Lithuanians. Why else would all of you name your parliaments with the same name? :p

[lI]

Why else would all of you name your parliaments with the same name? :pA loanword. Speaking of loanwords, feel free to address this one about Baltic loanwords in Finnic languages, you seem to have forgotten ;)

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=753789&postcount=71

[Rereg]

God, not again :rolleyes:

I'll just repost it for ya ;)

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=586540&postcount=18




BTW you are aware of the fact that people taking down the street signs in your video are none other than ethnic Poles ?
The interview with them starts here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYjpd_3qrUQ&t=1m57s

1. Discrimination against Polish education in Lithuania

The Constitution of the Republic of Lithuania and Lithuanian legislation (Act on national minorities, Act on education) guarantee the right of national minorities to receive education in the native language up to the level of secondary school. In practice, however, pupils of Polish schools in Lithuania do not have the same opportunities as pupils in Lithuanian schools to obtain a secondary education.
1. The regions of Vilnius and Salcininkai, both with a high percentage of Polish population, are the only regions in Lithuania where the authorities are establishing government schools, with instruction in the Lithuanian language, financed out of the state budget, alongside local self-government schools (the Vilnius Region has 17 government schools, the Salcininkai Region has 5). Decisions relating to their establishment, size and profile are taken without consultations with the local self-government bodies or the local population. The government schools have higher budgets and are well equipped, with gymnasiums which are often lacking in local government schools. The policy of the authorities is not aimed at strengthening already existent Polish local self-government schools, but, in fact, has the goal of discouraging parents from sending their children to attend them. This leads to absurd situations, with well-equipped schools being established for small groups of Lithuanian children, while Polish schools next door struggle with financial problems.
2. The financial situation of the Polish schools is significantly inferior. The so-called „pupil’s basket” for Polish schools, as compared with Lithuanian schools, is higher by only 20%, while the actual expenditures per pupil for the operation of minority schools are 40% higher in rural areas and 30% higher in towns (higher costs of implementing the curriculum) than in Lithuanian schools.
3. During the recent reorganization of the school network, six Polish schools were closed in the Trakai Region and one of two Polish schools in the Sirvintos Region – moves that were explained by falling numbers of pupils. The authorities rejected demands by the Polish community of Lithuania to set lower size requirements for the establishment of school forms for Polish schools, as national minority schools. On March 12 2008 the government adopted resolution 257 which increased the number of pupils per form and deprived local self-governments of the right to maintain classes with lower numbers of pupils; its implementation would lead to the closure of many schools and forms which did not have the numbers of pupils required by the resolution. On March 27 2009 the Self-Government Council of the Vilnius Region adopted its plan for the school year 2009/2010 with 100 departures from the above resolution, since implementation of the latter would have been harmful to Polish education.
4. Persistent moves are made to reduce the use and role of Polish in schools where it is the language of instruction, through:
– removal of the Polish-language exam from the list of mandatory secondary school graduation exams;
– eradication in 2010 of Polish-language exams from the list of primary-school-leaving exams;
– the requirement that school internal memos, meetings and even the minutes of pupils’ self-government meetings be conducted in Lithuanian in Polish-language schools.
The situation has been acerbated by moves of the Lithuanian authorities designed to further hinder the operation of Polish schools. A resolution of the Ministry of Education and Science of Lithuania envisages the introduction in 2012 of the same Lithuanian language secondary school leaving exam for Lithuanian and national minority schools. This is unjustified for pedagogical and practical reasons. For pupils of Lithuanian schools – Lithuanian is their native language, for pupils of Polish schools – it is an acquired language. The teaching of Lithuanian in Lithuanian and Polish schools is conducted on the basis of different curricula and with the use of different textbooks, with 29 lessons per week less in Polish schools, in forms 1 to 10.



Violations of the Treaty between the Republic of Poland and the Republic of Lithuania on Friendly Relations and Good-Neighborly Cooperation and the Council of Europe Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities.

Article 14 of the Treaty
National minorities have the right to „learn the language of their national minority and receive education in that language” and to „establish and maintain their own institutions, organizations or associations, particularly cultural, religious and educational ones, including schools of all levels”.

Article 15 of the Treaty
The Parties „shall ensure suitable conditions for the teaching of the language of the national minority and for receiving education in that language in kindergartens, primary schools and secondary schools”.

Article 12.3 of the Convention
„The Parties undertake to promote equal opportunities for access to education at all levels for persons belonging to national minorities”.

Article 14 of the Convention
„1. The Parties undertake to recognize that every person belonging to a national minority has the right to learn his or her minority language.

2. In areas inhabited by persons belonging to national minorities traditionally or in substantial numbers, if there is sufficient demand, the Parties shall endeavor to ensure, as far as possible and within the framework of their educational systems, that persons belonging to those minorities have adequate opportunities for being taught the minority language or for receiving instruction in this language”.



Comparison with the situation in Poland

In Poland the teaching of minority languages is financed out of the state budget. Pursuant to the regulation of the Minister of National Education of December 21 2006 on the division of the educational part of the general subsidy for units of territorial self-government in 2007 (Journal of Laws No. 246, item 1799), authorities operating (financing) national minority schools receive out of the state budget a subsidy for educational tasks increased by 20% per national minority pupil in the case of large schools and by 150% in the case of small schools (i.e. schools in which the number of pupils does not exceed 84, in the case of primary schools, and 42, in the case of a middle or secondary schools).
Pupils in which a minority language is the teaching language may take school-leaving tests (in the case of primary schools) and school-leaving exams (in the case of middle schools) in the minority language. Teaching of the Lithuanian language and in the Lithuanian language is available at all levels of schooling. Lithuanian language exams are mandatory for secondary-school leavers in Lithuanian-minority schools in Poland. „The development strategy of Lithuanian minority education in Poland” was endorsed in 2001 without reservations by organizations of the Lithuanian minority. In contrast, the strategy for Polish minority education in Lithuania was only adopted in 2005, without any consultations.

[Waidewut]

Latvians are 50/50 Catholic/Lutheran, while the Russian immigrants are Orthodox.

That 50% Lutheranism was one of the main Northern aspects about Latvia, that I have mentioned before.

But still, you're in the same category as Poles and Lithuanians. Why else would all of you name your parliaments with the same name? :p

Latvians aren't 100% church attending, like you are trying to tell with your 50/50 church theory.

I shall post this quote from "Latvian Statistic Atlas" (M.Skujenieks, Rīga 1938)


[…] Latviešu vairākums – gandrīz 70% ir ev.luterāņi

Latvian majority- almost 70% are Lutherans,

Why are you over-emphasizing Catholicism in Latvia? Having Lutheran background is very important, for most Latvian people.

[lI]

@Chąśnik

Yeah, no, seriously, you've got to get real, man :lol:


4. Persistent moves are made to reduce the use and role of Polish in schools where it is the language of instruction, through:
– removal of the Polish-language exam from the list of mandatory secondary school graduation exams;

Poles expect Polish language exam to be mandatory in Lithuania??? WTF :lol:

Do I even need to say anything more?

[Rereg]

BTW you are aware of the fact that people taking down the street signs in your video are none other than ethnic Poles ?
The interview with them starts here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYjpd_3qrUQ&t=1m57s

It's obviously that he is lithuanian instigator. :rolleyes:

[Äike]

A loanword. Speaking of loanwords, feel free to address this one about Baltic loanwords in Finnic languages, you seem to have forgotten ;)

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=753789&postcount=71

The Baltic languages are riddled with Finnic loanwords, your entire maritime related terminology is taken from us.

Also, "meri" is not borrowed from you.

The word meri actually comes from Pre Finno-Ugric and pre Indo-European inhabitants of this part of Europe.

[Rereg]

Poles expect Polish language exam to be mandatory in Lithuania??? WTF :lol:

In polish schools polish language must be mandatory. We need autonomy in Vilnian region just like the Serbs in Bosnia.

[Mordid]

It shows you know very little about Lithuania. perhaps you are not intrrested, idk.

These "we are enemies" is basically an issue of Polish minority in Lithuania of the last years. Polls showing mood changes towards Poles perfectly illustrate this.

I as a Lithuanian can tell you that Lithuanians have more in common with Poles than Russians. It's obvious. I'm not a sucker for Poles or any other ethnicity, I'm just stating how it is. And I explained why. Don't know if you bothered to read my post.
I am Pole and I agree with you on that comment of yours. I have no reason to hate them, since in my personal experience, they are friendly, funny and lovely people. I can understand why some Poles hate Lithuanians and vice versa due to historical reason. Such a shame to see people who dislike their neighbor country, really. The past is for learning from and letting go. they can't revisit it. It vanishes.

Lithuanians have in common with Poles as much as they have little in common with Russians, that's true. Just like Poles have in common with Lithuanians as much as they have little in common with Russians, despite Poles and Russians are Slavic people.

[The Ripper]

The Baltic languages are riddled with Finnic loanwords, your entire maritime related terminology is taken from us.

Also, "meri" is not borrowed from you.

The word meri actually comes from Pre Finno-Ugric and pre Indo-European inhabitants of this part of Europe.

Are you sure? Because (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/meri#Finnish).

And (http://kotisivu.lumonetti.fi/js749/lexicon.htm).

[Äike]

Are you sure? Because (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/meri#Finnish).

And (http://kotisivu.lumonetti.fi/js749/lexicon.htm).

I read that meri comes from the earlier inhabitants of Northern-Europe, from some book a few years ago.

I can very possibly be wrong. Even if I am wrong, the word doesn't come from the Baltic languages, that wouldn't make sense. Latvian and Lithuanian have a lot of maritime terms in their languages, that derive from Finno-Ugric, thus it would be weird if they gave us the word "sea" and we could give them everything related to the sea "sail", "ship" etc.

[riverman]

Ukraine and Belarus are parts of Eastern Europe for sure. Their current political situation just emphasizes it. Lithuanians, for example, have more in common with Poland and such countries, in other words more established countries of Eastern Europe (cold war divide). Lithuania does not orient itself to Belarus or Ukraine for sure. Actually it's either Northern or Central Europe. Though Lithuanian politicians seem to lean towards the latter. Latvia perhaps will choose to follow Scandinavia.

That's great. America can offer some very good insights as to how Europeans actually and naturally (and linguistically) view these things...ALL the Slavic, Baltic, and south eastern European countries are viewed in the same category, (east Europe) there isn't even a question about it.
And, before you say this is "uniquely" American or something let me emphasize that it's European Americans who view it this way.

[Äike]

That's great. America can offer some very good insights as to how Europeans actually and naturally (and linguistically) view these things...ALL the Slavic, Baltic, and south eastern European countries are viewed in the same category, (east Europe) there isn't even a question about it.
And, before you say this is "uniquely" American or something let me emphasize that it's European Americans who view it this way.

I don't know if you included Estonia under your term "Baltic", but all the Americans who I have met in Estonia have been surprised as they had a completely different impression about Estonia before visiting the country. Most of them can't differentiate Estonia from other Western countries afterwards.

Eastern-Europe is a different story, though. Estonia and Russia are like day and night, while Poland is like something between Estonia (Western) and Russia (completely Eastern), that's what I have been told.

[riverman]

I don't know if you included Estonia under your term "Baltic", but all the Americans who I have met in Estonia have been surprised as they had a completely different impression about Estonia before visiting the country. Most of them can't differentiate Estonia from other Western countries afterwards.

Eastern-Europe is a different story, though. Estonia and Russia are like day and night, while Poland is like something between Estonia (Western) and Russia (completely Eastern), that's what I have been told.

I don't view Estonia as being like Russia, I wouldn't expect that and frankly I'd be surprised if it was.

I think you're generalizing too much with the "Slavic" idea, though, the slavic groups differ from each other, some ethnicities being more similar to each other than others.

[Äike]

I don't view Estonia as being like Russia, I wouldn't expect that and frankly I'd be surprised if it was.

What I meant is that Estonia isn't Eastern-European, it's Northern-European and "Western". It's obvious that Estonia is extremely different from Russia.

[riverman]

What I meant is that Estonia isn't Eastern-European, it's Northern-European and "Western". It's obvious that Estonia is extremely different from Russia.

Whatever "Eastern European" means to you, that's your opinion, so whatever. :icon_neutral:

[Lábaru]

What I meant is that Estonia isn't Eastern-European, it's Northern-European and "Western". It's obvious that Estonia is extremely different from Russia.

xD

[Äike]

xD

Your Spanish compatriot(I don't remember his name) from this forum who visited Estonia this summer said the same thing.

You're just a troll.

[Lábaru]

Your Spanish compatriot(I don't remember his name) from this forum who visited Estonia this summer said the same thing.

You're just a troll.

:thumbs up Of course, I'm a troll because I say that Estonia is in Eastern Europe.

http://www.freeworldmaps.net/europe/europe-political-map.jpg

Photo satellite map of Europe.

http://mapas.owje.com/img/Imagen-de-Satelite-de-Europa-de-Noche-1240.gif

[Äike]

:thumbs up Of course, I'm a troll because I say that Estonia is in Eastern Europe.

http://www.freeworldmaps.net/europe/europe-political-map.jpg

Photo satellite map of Europe.

http://mapas.owje.com/img/Imagen-de-Satelite-de-Europa-de-Noche-1240.gif

Nobody calls Estonia & Finland Eastern-European countries, as we are Northern-European.

Although, the geographical centre of Europe is located in Western-Estonia:


If all the islands of Europe, from Azores to the Franz Joseph Land and from Crete to Iceland, are taken into consideration, it is claimed that the centre of Europe lies on the island of Saaremaa in western Estonia, in Mõnnuste village, at 58°18′14″N 22°16′44″E. The local Kärla Parish is looking to verify the location and turn it into a tourist location.

[Lábaru]

Nobody calls Estonia & Finland Eastern-European countries, as we are Northern-European.

In Western Europe every person think of Estonia as a country in Eastern Europe, Northeast Europe to be exact.



Although, the geographical centre of Europe is located in Western-Estonia:

Again, a photo satellite., look at the distance of Lisbon, the westernmost point of Europe and Estonia.

http://mapsof.net/uploads/static-maps/europe_nasa_satellite.jpg

http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/envisat/Envisat_Meris_Europe_mosaic_hi.jpg


http://earth.eo.esa.int/satelliteimages/837/europemosaic_ME_or.jpg

Westernmost point. The westernmost point of mainland Europe is Cabo da Roca, Portugal (09° 30′ 03″ W). The Westernmost point including islands is Fajã Grande on Flores Island (31° 13' W).

[Heretik]

Map approved by Karl:

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss220/wensounds/europemapNEW.jpg

[Hess]

:thumbs up Of course, I'm a troll because I say that Estonia is in Eastern Europe.

http://www.freeworldmaps.net/europe/europe-political-map.jpg

Photo satellite map of Europe.

http://mapas.owje.com/img/Imagen-de-Satelite-de-Europa-de-Noche-1240.gif

Are Estonians not good enough to join the Western Ubermensch club? :(

[mihaitzateo]

Austria is not in central Europe.
Most austrians can not even speak english right.

Is true,they have a good living standard now,but it was not obtained by hard working,but by robing romanians,croatians,serbians and so on in Austro-Hungarian empire.
Now some weird austrian company "bought" Romania natural gases and oil reserves for very few money and they obtained also a lot from natural gases in Black Sea,which belongs to Romania.
In fact they bribed some romanians politicians so they could get those for almost no money.

[GeistFaust]

Central Europe is Eastern France, Southern Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Poland, and Hungary generally speaking. I think you could throw Croatia, Serbia, Ukraine, Northern Italy, Beneleux, and Central/Northern Germany as outlayers who could be interpreted to be within the bounds of Central Europe.


I tend to think of Central Europe to be defined by a particular cultural tone, which I think has its root in the Austro-German dominance and hegemony over these sections of Europe.


Germany had dominance over parts of Eastern France and Poland, while Austria had Slovakia, Slovenia, Hungary, Croatia, Serbia, and Northern Italy under their control

[mihaitzateo]

Central Europe is Eastern France, Southern Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Poland, and Hungary generally speaking. I think you could throw Croatia, Serbia, Ukraine, Northern Italy, Beneleux, and Central/Northern Germany as outlayers who could be interpreted to be within the bounds of Central Europe.


I tend to think of Central Europe to be defined by a particular cultural tone, which I think has its root in the Austro-German dominance and hegemony over these sections of Europe.


Germany had dominance over parts of Eastern France and Poland, while Austria had Slovakia, Slovenia, Hungary, Croatia, Serbia, and Northern Italy under their control
Barbariansteel which is an US citisen opened this thread with the clear ideea to try to divide europeans between them.
You are just an US citizen,what do you know?

Is not like the league of nations from Austria was an organization that was kissing US ass .
They did not even condemn the genocide US did against japanesse people with A bombings from Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
When they did something to support Palestina bid for statehood,US took the funding they were giving to them.

USA is robing other nations thinking they are some kind of "superior" race and this it gives them the right to do so.
Who asked you americans about how Europe should be divided?
Keep your evil ideeas and influence out of Europe,keep the land your ancestors got by slaughtering native americans.

Nobody cares about US now,US is pathetic,go and work so your pathetic state will pay something from what he borrowed from other nations,cause US have an imense external debt.
Or I do not know go and do some volunter work for those 1.600.000 homeless childrens from USA so you build them some houses.
Go learn to be human.
You idiot americans stop coming with your idiotic ideeas to try to enrage and divide europeans between each other.

[riverman]

Completely worthless post. ^

:coffee:

[mihaitzateo]

Completely worthless post. ^

:coffee:

You are an idiot american which is trying to enrage and divide european members of this forum one versus another with idiotic polls.
As it is said "divide et impera".
You do not consider that 1600000 homeless childrens in USA is a humanitarian disaster?
So USA got a huge humanitarian disaster in their own country and instead of trying to resolve this first,they are going to fix how human rights are respected or not in other countries.
Ye sure.

[riverman]

lol Sure, blame your own problems on America. :rolleyes2:

The idiot here is you, you silly rumanian.

[mihaitzateo]

lol Sure, blame your own problems on America. :rolleyes2:

The idiot here is you, you silly rumanian.

I do not blame any problems on USA,I just noticed that you also opened the thread "How should "East Europe" be defined?".
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44163
I do not know if you do this consciously or you just act how you were educated,that is by spreading discord and hatred between people.
That people from USA are educated to hate you can see by the mass shootings that happens there and so on.
How can you explain that till in Europe the US "education" was not present there were no mass shootings,however,when this "education" came in Europe through US "culture" that is movies especially but games US made also mass shooting started in Europe also.
You know that Breivik was inspired from US racial ideeas?
Also he was inspired by US hate against Palestine and palestinian people.
Since those people that were shoot by Breivik had banners there to protest against the genocide that Israel is doing in Palestine,search on inet and see,they had banners with "Boikott Israel" and so on.

[mihaitzateo]

How do I know barbariansteel that you are not sent here to sow hatred between people from Europe here?
I can not know that,but after you opened this 2 threads,I starteth to think this could be true.

[Styggnacke]

You do not know the history of Estonia.
You do not know much about history whatsoever, since you think the recent Russian immigrants in Estonia are comparable to Finland Swedes.

Did you guys also liberate Viipuri?

[Lisa]

You do not know much about history whatsoever, since you think the recent Russian immigrants in Estonia are comparable to Finland Swedes.

Did you guys also liberate Viipuri?

Vyborg Swedes built on Russian soil.

[Adrian]

Barbariansteel which is an US citisen opened this thread with the clear ideea to try to divide europeans between them.

You look very paranoid and hysterical in this post. This is a forum and such threads are very successful and welcomed. The fact that there are so many different opinions and disagreements indicates that this kind of threads are very interesting and one can learn and discuss different things from different approach.

[The Ripper]

Nobody calls Estonia & Finland Eastern-European countries, as we are Northern-European.

Then why are you arguing with people who call Estonia an Eastern European country? :D

[Äike]

Then why are you arguing with people who call Estonia an Eastern European country? :D

I must be a stubborn idiot.

[Mordid]

I am an idiot.
I agree.

[Äike]

I agree.

Go back to Mordor.

[Loki]

Hungary is as Central Europe as you can get - along with Switzerland and Austria.

[Mordid]

Go back to Mordor.
ho ho ho ho ho, i'm crying for you.

[Loki]

Hungary is as Central Europe as you can get - along with Switzerland and Austria.

And Bavaria

[Lábaru]

This map shows population density and distribution , I think. So according to you, the more crammed, the more western a country is.

Can you people at least think before writing. It's so uninteresting to read such posts.

Lithuania for example, don't have such huge cities as Western Europe, so it's natural that this teritorry is darker. Most people do not live in cities.

http://www.spatialmag.com/images/news/122010_mom.jpg

What are you talking about? Have you read my post? I'm not talking about population density, I mean that Estonia is in Eastern Europe. That is a photo satellite, where do you think is your country lithuania? in the fucking West?? are we in denial?

http://mapas.owje.com/img/Imagen-de-Satelite-de-Europa-de-Noche-1240.gif

Since when Russia is the only country in Eastern Europe? Estonia is between Greece and Turkey, speaking of East-West, is East enough? North-East.

[Aviane]

Your "argument" was nonsence.

I have never said that Lithuania is the west. I gave Lithuania as an example to explain what this satellite photohraph made at night means. You yourself seem to not understand what you are talking about.



I have never said that Russia is the only ountry in the East.

Just ignore him he is obviously trolling. :thumbs up

[Lábaru]

Your "argument" was nonsence.

I have never said that Lithuania is the west. I gave Lithuania as an example to explain what this satellite photohraph made at night means. You yourself seem to not understand what you are talking about.

And if I put a map (photo satellite) without lights at night, is more easy understand your geographical localization?

http://mapsof.net/uploads/static-maps/europe_nasa_satellite.jpg

that is all I'm saying.

[The Ripper]

And if I put a map (photo satellite) without lights at night, is more easy understand your geographical localization?

http://mapsof.net/uploads/static-maps/europe_nasa_satellite.jpg

that is all I'm saying.

That map proves that Spain is southern. :cool:

[Aviane]

^^It now does look it more.

[Lábaru]

That map proves that Spain is southern. :cool:

Of course, South-West, Estonia is Noth-East.

[The Ripper]

Of course, South-West, Estonia is Noth-East.

Going by geography, Estonia is Central-North European. ;)

[Lábaru]

Going by geography, Estonia is Central-North European. ;)

Then Greece and Turkey are in the Central-South Europe and Portugal/Ireland are in America.

[Leliana]

Austria is not in central Europe.
Most austrians can not even speak english right.
Here we have the dumbest post of the day, congratulations. :rolleyes: We don't need to speak English to be Central European. To speak German is a more essential criteria.

[riverman]

(edit)

[Aviane]

Here we have the dumbest post of the day, congratulations. :rolleyes: We don't need to speak English to be Central European. To speak German is a more essential criteria.

Agreed.

Thats why people speak what they perfer.

England is not Germany and Germany is not England simple as that. ;)

[The Ripper]

Then Greece and Turkey are in the Central-South Europe and Portugal/Ireland are in America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_midpoint_of_Europe#Lithuania :p

[Damião de Góis]

The center would be somewhere around the Czech Republic i would say. But this depends on how much of Russia one wants to consider.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Centre_of_Europe.jpg

[GeistFaust]

I tend to think of Prague as the central point of Central Europe, and its a worthy representative, although one can make a claim about Vienna being the center point.

Vienna is the cut off point between the Western part of Europe and the Eastern part of Europe, which would make it seem symmetrical and appropriate to label it as the center point of Central Europe.


I think if you want to speak in a technical sense than Prague is the center of Central Europe, but if you want to speak of Europe in a symmetrical sense, as it is broken up, then I would say Vienna.

[Lábaru]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_midpoint_of_Europe#Lithuania :p

Hahahaha a lot of Eastern European countries claiming to be the center of Europe xD, seems that there is great insecurity and low self-esteem in some countries of the East of Europe about their condition.

[riverman]

Again, it's funny how people love to demonstrate their little knowledge.

Like you. :thumb001:

[The Ripper]

Hahahaha a lot of Eastern European countries claiming to be the center of Europe xD, seems that there is great insecurity and low self-esteem in some countries of the East of Europe about their condition.

It is quite funny. Spaniards dodging the "southern" label while assigning Baltics to the "eastern" category. Karl rejects being "eastern" but insists Spaniards are southern. It is indeed a "hilarious" process of perpetual motion which just goes around and around in circles.

[Zephyr]

I tend to think of Prague as the central point of Central Europe, and its a worthy representative, although one can make a claim about Vienna being the center point.

Vienna is the cut off point between the Western part of Europe and the Eastern part of Europe, which would make it seem symmetrical and appropriate to label it as the center point of Central Europe.


I think if you want to speak in a technical sense than Prague is the center of Central Europe, but if you want to speak of Europe in a symmetrical sense, as it is broken up, then I would say Vienna.

Vienna, definitely.

Austria is where all cultures converged and as far as Turks went.

Also the capital of "Mitteleuropa".

[Lábaru]

It is quite funny. Spaniards dodging the "southern" label while assigning Baltics to the "eastern" category. Karl rejects being "eastern" but insists Spaniards are southern. It is indeed a "hilarious" process of perpetual motion which just goes around and around in circles.

The true funny thing is that there are not a single Spanish in this forum dodging the term "South and West" ------>http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=785671#post785671. And the funniest part is that the discussion started not because Estonia was at the center of Europa, but because was in ....The west! ----->
What I meant is that Estonia isn't Eastern-European, it's Northern-European and "Western". It's obvious that Estonia is extremely different from Russia.

[Comte Arnau]

It is quite funny. Spaniards dodging the "southern" label while assigning Baltics to the "eastern" category. Karl rejects being "eastern" but insists Spaniards are southern. It is indeed a "hilarious" process of perpetual motion which just goes around and around in circles.

I haven't seen any Spaniard dodging the Southern label. It's only that Southern does not exclude Western, hence the South-West, a possible cardinal point in any decent compass. (Apparently to some people South excludes West, can't really get why)

Some Easterners seem to deny their Easterness though, as if it excluded the fact that they can be Northern at the same time. Hence the cardinal point known as North-East. :coffee:

[The Ripper]

The true funny thing is that there are not a single Spanish in this forum dodging the term "South and West" ------>http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=785671#post785671. And the funniest part is that the discussion started not because Estonia was at the center of Europa, but because was in ....The west! ----->

Are you actually unable to differentiate between a purely geographical approach and cultural-political approach or are you trolling? You wouldn't be the only one.



I haven't seen any Spaniard dodging the Southern label. It's only that Southern does not exclude Western, hence the South-West, a possible cardinal point in any decent compass. (Apparently to some people South excludes West, can't really get why)

Some Easterners seem to deny their Easterness though, as if it excluded the fact that they can be Northern at the same time. Hence the cardinal point known as North-East. :coffee:

Oh come on. Half of these threads consists of Iberians, Italians, etc, saying they're not (only) southern, the other half consists of former east bloc countries saying they're not (only) eastern. :D

[Lábaru]

Are you actually unable to differentiate between a purely geographical approach and cultural-political approach or are you trolling? You wouldn't be the only one.

Come on....

[Comte Arnau]

Oh come on. Half of these threads consists of Iberians, Italians, etc, saying they're not (only) southern,

All Iberians take for granted that they are South-Western, that goes without saying. If you look at any thread about it, when we insist on not only being Southern is always after someone only interested in a Northern/Southern divide has said that we are only Southern. As if Iberians were closer to Balkanians than to the French, so to speak. :rolleyes:

[The Ripper]

All Iberians take for granted that they are South-Western, that goes without saying. If you look at any thread about it, when we insist on not only being Southern is always after someone only interested in a Northern/Southern divide has said that we are only Southern. As if Iberians were closer to Balkanians than to the French, so to speak. :rolleyes:

The dynamic of these useless debates, as I see it, goes as follows:

Spaniards prefer to see Europe along an West-East axis. See Labaru's profile and "True West".

"North-Easterners" prefer to see Europe along an North-South axis. See Karl and his "Nordic" agenda.

Spaniards reject the North-South. N-E's reject West-East if they're assigned as "Eastern".

Spaniard/N-E gets annoyed by N-E/Spaniard putting too heavy emphasis on North-South/West-East axis. They keep labeling each other as they see it, without ever attempting to reconcile their points of view in a rational manner, beginning by explaining the definitions and setting parameters for the discussion. Throw in some (un?)intentional misunderstandings, the willful and utter confusing of the different axis of division, and there you have it.

On and on it goes, to everyone's amusement. :coffee:

[Comte Arnau]

The dynamic of these useless debates, as I see it, goes as follows:

Spaniards prefer to see Europe along an West-East axis. See Labaru's profile and "True West".

"North-Easterners" prefer to see Europe along an North-South axis. See Karl and his "Nordic" agenda.

Spaniards reject the North-South. N-E's reject West-East if they're assigned as "Eastern".

Spaniard/N-E gets annoyed by N-E/Spaniard putting too heavy emphasis on North-South/West-East axis. They keep labeling each other as they see it, without ever attempting to reconcile their points of view in a rational manner, beginning by explaining the definitions and setting parameters for the discussion. On and on it goes, to everyone's amusement. :coffee:

Agree, except on the part in bold. I haven't seen a post where a Spaniard says he isn't Southern. But some Easterners deny being so.

[The Ripper]

Agree, except on the part in bold. I haven't seen a post where a Spaniard says he isn't Southern. But some Easterners deny being so.

I hope you're not calling Estonians Eastern. Geographically (most suggestions for "geographical midpoints" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_midpoint_of_Europe#Current_measuremen ts) of Europe are in what many here insist of calling "East Europe") they are Central-North. Culturally Western and Northern. ;)

[Comte Arnau]

"Central" is a euphemism. In a N/S and W/S divide, there is no Center.

[The Ripper]

"Central" is a euphemism. In a N/S and W/S divide, there is no Center.

Ok. I was just trolling anyway. ;)

[Lábaru]

Spaniards prefer to see Europe along an West-East axis. See Labaru's profile and "True West".


You are wrong again, that's something we put (the true West) on purpose to enrage the rest of Europeans with inferiority complex who want to deny that Spain is in the West. I see that works!

:) most Spanish are very comfortable with our true position in southwestern Europe.

[Rereg]

"Central" is a euphemism. In a N/S and W/S divide, there is no Center.

I see that you don't understand the specifics of our regions. :rolleyes:

[Comte Arnau]

I see that you don't understand the specifics of our regions. :rolleyes:

Lol. All regions have specificities. And subregions. And subsubregions. But geography has its cardinal points, that's all.

[The Ripper]

You are wrong again, that's something we put (the true West) on purpose to enrage the rest of Europeans with inferiority complex who want to deny that Spain is in the West. I see that works!

Hmm. I feel its often quite the opposite, but that's just my perception.

[Äike]

Estonia is geographically north of the central point of Europe, as Europe ends with the Ural mountains, not the Russian border. Culturally Estonia is Northern and Western. I can't understand how some people lack even the most basic knowledge about certain things related to Europe.

I also don't understand why some Southern-Europeans are ashamed of their heritage. All the great civilizations(Greece, Rome etc.) of Europe come from the south. Being a Southerner sounds better than being here in the north. Just lying all day at the beach, drinking wine, doing nothing and getting money from some far-away countries in the north is like paradise.

[Lábaru]

Hmm. I feel its often quite the opposite, but that's just my perception.

show me an example ^^ are you able to show me a link? a quote?

Edit: :) Obviously you can not, because the Spanish are usually comfortable with their position in the Southwest, but here we are, in a thread about central Europe with a lot of Eastern European countries that claim to be the Center or the West.

[Olaska]

Europe has been divided by religion, Catholic and Orthodox.

Central Europe are the Catholic countries, like Croatia and Austria, while Eastern Europe are the Orthodox barbarians.

[Comte Arnau]

Being a Southerner sounds better than being here in the north. Just lying all day at the beach, drinking wine, doing nothing and getting money from some far-away countries in the north is like paradise.

Lol. You're definitely an Easterner.

[Prince Carlo]

I also don't understand why some Southern-Europeans are ashamed of their heritage. All the great civilizations(Greece, Rome etc.) of Europe come from the south. Being a Southerner sounds better than being here in the north. Just lying all day at the beach, drinking wine, doing nothing and getting money from some far-away countries in the north is like paradise.

LOL? Are you kidding me???? Just look at this.

http://eagereyes.org/media/2010/EUfunding-small.jpg

S.European countries like Italy and Spain are doing better than your lovely Estonia.

[Äike]

Lol. You're definitely an Easterner.

and pigs fly.


LOL? Are you kidding me????

Yes I am, wasn't it obvious?


S.European countries like Italy and Spain are doing better than your lovely Estonia.

Out of all EU countries, the condition of the Estonian economy is one of the best, if not the best in the entire European Union. Estonia has the lowest level of debt in the EU (10 times less than Germany), Estonia has been the fastest growing economy in Europe in the period from 2000 to 2010 (the big recession is in that period, but Estonia still got 1st place). Now in 2011, Estonia still had the fastest growing economy in the EU.

Have you ever heard about the European Economic Sustainability index (EESI)? As you probably aren't as informed about economical matters as I am, then I'll introduce this concept to you.

Launched on the eve of the European Council meeting, this European Economic Sustainability Index (EESI) has been designed by Fabian Zuleeg to enable a comparison of the long term economic sustainability of EU Member States. Each EU country is simultaneously assessed according to six criteria (deficits, national debt, growth, competitiveness, governance/ corruption and cost of ageing) and then ranked against the other 26. The 2010 data show that Scandinavian countries, plus Estonia(makes sense, as Estonians are Nordic), perform best, and northern/central European countries such as the Netherlands and Germany also perform well. Greece comes out bottom, closely followed by Italy with Portugal also performing badly.

http://oi41.tinypic.com/ifylnk.jpg

Estonia has the 2nd (together with Denmark) most sustainable economy in the entire EU, while Italy is at the bottom of the list.

So to sum it up, no "Southern-European countries like Italy and Spain" aren't doing better than my lovely Estonia, they're actually doing very badly if compared to us.

I bet that this is the last time you try to lie to a guy who actually knows something about economics, haha. Have a nice evening.

[riverman]

Europe has been divided by religion, Catholic and Orthodox.

Central Europe are the Catholic countries, like Croatia and Austria, while Eastern Europe are the Orthodox barbarians.

Do you have Orthodox heritage, or Catholic heritage, or both?


lol nevermind.

[Prince Carlo]

I bet that this is the last time you try to lie to a guy who actually knows something about economics, haha. Have a nice evening.

You would not be in so good shape if we didn't give you eu fundings. Anyway we are recovering and the spread Btp Bund (the difference between the yields of two bonds with differing credit ratings) is decreasing.

http://www.forexlive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/3-19-btp.png

[Zephyr]

Being a Southerner sounds better than being here in the north. Just lying all day at the beach, drinking wine, doing nothing and getting money from some far-away countries in the north is like paradise.

I'm a proud southerner, my people works more hours per day, week, month and year than yours will ever work. I'm a southerner, yes I am. You are in the North but you are not northerner, you are on the Baltic, but you are not baltic, you are from Estonia a remote meeting point of Swedes, Germans and Russians (depending on who was ruling your land). Now you are back under German rule again by proxy.

As for technical matters, EEC / European Union destroyed our economy, forced our production to be shut down in order to accept surplus northern shit (not your pseudo one, thankfully) in exchange for money with outrageous extortions and demands. All in the name of "democracy" and "integration".

You know, man, many times I tried to talk with you, to be friendly and try to learn more about Estonia, but you are so haughtily full of shit, you must kiss yourself on the mirror everyday.

Your "I am a Northener" record is broken, it's a running joke in this site, only second to a recent one, so please don't even try to come with shit about southerners being lazy. The "I am a Northener" broken record is enough already.

Not that I agree a bit with what Labaru says, but for what concerns me you won't have much luck trying to portray yourself superior by scorning at southerners. My people (Portuguese) ruled half of the world and all the oceans for 150 years, destroyed complete Ottoman fleets on the seven seas, stood up to Persians, Indians, Malayans, Chinese, was the first western nation to reach Japan... and yours?

Now go seek for yourself another kingdom.

[Äike]

I'm a proud southerner, my people works more hours per day, week, month and year than yours will ever work. I'm a southerner, yes I am. You are in the North but you are not northerner

What am I then?

Estonian -> Finnic -> Northern-European -> European


As for technical matters, EEC / European Union destroyed our economy, forced our production to be shut down in order to accept surplus northern shit (not your pseudo one, thankfully) in exchange for money with outrageous extortions and demands. All in the name of "democracy" and "integration".

You know, man, many times I tried to talk with you, to be friendly and try to learn more about Estonia, but you are so haughtily full of shit, you must kiss yourself on the mirror everyday.

Your "I am a Northener" record is broken, it's a running joke in this site, only second to a recent one, so please don't even try to come with shit about southerners being lazy. The "I am a Northener" broken record is enough already.

Not that I agree a bit with what Labaru says, but for what concerns me you won't have much luck trying to portray yourself superior by scorning at southerners. My people (Portuguese) ruled half of the world and all the oceans for 150 years, destroyed complete Ottoman fleets on the seven seas, stood up to Persians, Indians, Malayans, Chinese, was the first western nation to reach Japan... and yours?

Now go seek for yourself another kingdom.

I'm very surprised that everyone took my sentence about Southerners lying on the beach so seriously. I was obviously joking.

But maybe there's some truth in it, considering the responses.

[lI]

And if I put a map (photo satellite) without lights at night, is more easy understand your geographical localization?

http://mapsof.net/uploads/static-maps/europe_nasa_satellite.jpg

that is all I'm saying.

And what if I put this map:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Europe_orthographic_Caucasus_Urals_boundary.svg

Or this one:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1c/Europe_land_use_map.png

Or this:

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt152/smurkst/stuff/europe.jpg



Spelling it out:
I mean that Estonia is in Eastern Europe. That is a photo satellite, where do you think is your country lithuania? in the fucking West?? are we in denial?Not in the fucking West but in the fucking geographical Centre - literally. Cause, you know, "Europe" does not equal "European Union only" and the Slavic territories to the East of us are vast.


If you disagree, go argue with the French scientists :thumb001:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_midpoint_of_Europe#Lithuania
After a re-estimation of the boundaries of the continent of Europe in 1989, Jean-George Affholder, a scientist at the Institut Géographique National (French National Geographic Institute) determined that the Geographic Centre of Europe is located at 54°54′N 25°19′E . The method used for calculating this point was that of the centre of gravity of the geometrical figure of Europe. This point is located in Lithuania, specifically 26 kilometres (16 mi) north of its capital city, Vilnius, near the village of Purnuškės.

This location is the only one listed in the Guinness Book of World Records as the geographical centre of Europe.

[Lábaru]

And what if I put this map:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Europe_orthographic_Caucasus_Urals_boundary.svg

Or this one:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1c/Europe_land_use_map.png

Or this:

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt152/smurkst/stuff/europe.jpg




Estonia is in Eastern Europe also on your map, at the same level of Turkey, fact it.

You can extend the map to China but Estonia will not move from Eastern Europe.

[lI]

Estonia is in Eastern Europe also on your map, at the same level of Greece and Turkey, fact it.

You can extend the map to China but Estonia will not move from Eastern Europe.Which part of the fact: "the geographical centre of Europe is located in Lithuania " are you not able to comprehend? If Lithuania is in the geographical centre, how can Estonia which is at the exact same longitude be in the East?

Perhaps, re-reading this would be helpful ;)


Cause, you know, "Europe" does not equal "European Union only" and the Slavic territories to the East of us are vast.

[Äike]

Estonia is in Eastern Europe also on your map, fact it.

1. Estonia is geographically north of the central point of Europe. Thus Estonia is Central-Northern

2. Culturally Estonia is part of the "West" and belongs into the Northern cultural subgroup.

Go 30km south of Spain and you are in Africa, the land of the niggers. While at the same time, it is a rather long distance from Estonia and Finland towards the border of Europe.

I recently read an article about Spain and I just realized that there's something wrong with the education system there. The average high school graduate in Estonia is smarter than a Spaniard with several degrees.

As it was written in the article: "Spaniards aren't very intelligent, they see Estonians as the same people as Gypsy Romanians and Slavic Russians. Cars with Estonian number plates get pulled over at least once in 2 months."

I'm the type of person who is ashamed of himself, if I display any signs of not being educated. But in Spain, is being unintelligent a thing to be proud of?

As I see, you create artificial terms, put people in it who have nothing to do with the term and then start seeing wet dreams about being better than them.

This is hilarious.

[lI]

You can extend the map to China but Estonia will not move from Eastern Europe.I don't need to extend map - or the borders of Europe now that we're at it - anywhere. The geographical centre of Europe is already located in my country.

[Lábaru]

There are half a dozen countries claiming to be the center of Europe, some, like Estonia, are ridiculous. The Czech Republic is a good choice.

[Äike]

There are half a dozen countries claiming to be the center of Europe, some, like Estonia, are ridiculous.

You can't even argue that statement you just call it "ridiculous" as you know that you are wrong. ;)

Most people say that the centre of Europe is in Lithuania, but if all the islands of Europe, from Azores to the Franz Joseph Land and from Crete to Iceland, are taken into consideration, the centre of Europe lies on the island of Saaremaa in western Estonia, in Mõnnuste village, at 58°18′14″N 22°16′44″E.

[Aviane]

You can't even argue that statement you just call it "ridiculous" as you know that you are wrong. ;)

Most people say that the centre of Europe is in Lithuania, but if all the islands of Europe, from Azores to the Franz Joseph Land and from Crete to Iceland, are taken into consideration, the centre of Europe lies on the island of Saaremaa in western Estonia, in Mõnnuste village, at 58°18′14″N 22°16′44″E.

You are wasting time with him.

He obivously has a agenda. ;)

[riverman]

I don't need to extend map - or the borders of Europe now that we're at it - anywhere. The geographical centre of Europe is already located in my country.

Then how far east does central europe go in your opinion.

[Prince Carlo]

I'm very surprised that everyone took my sentence about Southerners lying on the beach so seriously. I was obviously joking.

But maybe there's some truth in it, considering the responses.

Bla, bla, bla.... sure, sure. The only thing that matters is that Italy is one of net european contributors, whereas Estonia is swallowing money produced by hard-working West Europeans. We are steadily recovering and people are once again investing here. We would recover faster, if we didn't give you all that free money.

[lI]

There are half a dozen countries claiming to be the center of Europe, some, like Estonia, are ridiculous. The Czech Republic is a good choice.

A country starting to claim it's the centre differs a bit from the actual scientists concluding that the centre is there, no?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_midpoint_of_Europe#Current_measuremen ts


Estonia
If all the islands of Europe, from Azores to the Franz Joseph Land and from Crete to Iceland, are taken into consideration, it is claimed that the centre of Europe lies on the island of Saaremaa in western Estonia, in Mõnnuste village, at 58°18′14″N 22°16′44″E. Again, no author and no method of calculation was disclosed. The local Kärla Parish is looking to verify the location and turn it into a tourist location.


You were saying Czech republic? If you don't actually read the source before posting, it just looks like you're talking out of your you-know-what, dear ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_midpoint_of_Europe#Possibly_mistaken_ claims
Possibly Mistaken Claims

Czech Republic

Číhošť near Ledeč nad Sázavou, Czech Republic - place of the geometrical centre of the Czech Republic. Although the Czech Republic considers itself a "country in the heart of Europe", this point does not claim to be a centre of the whole Europe.


I'll just repost it, highlighting the relevant parts this time, to make it easier for you to understand:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_midpoint_of_Europe#Lithuania
Lithuania
After a re-estimation of the boundaries of the continent of Europe in 1989, Jean-George Affholder, a scientist at the Institut Géographique National (French National Geographic Institute) determined that the Geographic Centre of Europe is located at 54°54′N 25°19′E . The method used for calculating this point was that of the centre of gravity of the geometrical figure of Europe. This point is located in Lithuania, specifically 26 kilometres (16 mi) north of its capital city, Vilnius, near the village of Purnuškės.

This location is the only one listed in the Guinness Book of World Records as the geographical centre of Europe.

[ficuscarica]

Well, here in Germany Italians definitely aren´t known as great workers, especially Southern Italians. :)

[Äike]

Bla, bla, bla.... sure, sure. The only thing that matters is that Italy is one of net european contributors, whereas Estonia is swallowing money produced by hard-working West Europeans. We are steadily recovering and people are once again investing here. We would recover faster, if we didn't give you all that free money.

Estonia is giving Greece millions and millions of euros! It is very absurd, as the wages in Greece are 2 times higher. Estonians give money to EU members who are richer than them and you talk about Estonia swallowing money?

Maybe in a few years, Estonia will have to give money also to Spain and Italy, I sincerely hope that we can keep our hard-earned money and not bail out more Southern-European countries. :(

[Prince Carlo]

Wut, Wut??? Then Italy is a South-Western country and Greece is a South-Central country.
Interesting.

[Lábaru]

but if all the islands of Europe, from Azores to the Franz Joseph Land and from Crete to Iceland, are taken into consideration, the centre of Europe lies on the island of Saaremaa in western Estonia, in Mõnnuste village, at 58°18′14″N 22°16′44″E.

Hahahahahahahaha ok, if you count the Azores island (almost located in the middle of Atlantic Ocean) then the most Western point of Estonia can be the center of Europe.

http://snk-seiya.net/guiasaintseiya/Cronos07.jpg

You are a very funny guy, Karl. :)

[Prince Carlo]

Estonia is giving Greece millions and millions of euros! It is very absurd, as the wages in Greece are 2 times higher. Estonians give money to EU members who are richer than them and you talk about Estonia swallowing money?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union#Revenues_and_expendit ure

http://www.euo.dk/euo_en/spsv/all/79/

You are swallowing money produced by hard working Italians. That's a fact.


Maybe in a few years, Estonia will have to give money also to Spain and Italy, I sincerely hope that we can keep our hard-earned money and not bail out more Southern-European countries. :(

Hard-earned money? Hahaha. You are swallowing our money. We would live 10 times better without Estonia.

[lI]

Then how far east does central europe go in your opinion.

Strictly geographically speaking, centre is a point - but, let's say, a mile radius around it :)



Wut, Wut??? Then Italy is a South-Western country and Greece is a South-Central country.
Interesting.
Geographically it is. But geopolitical divisions have little to do with geography.

[lI]

The Baltic languages are riddled with Finnic loanwords, your entire maritime related terminology is taken from us.I posted sources proving that what you said here isn't true. Shall you post any sources to disprove it?

[riverman]

Nobody calls Estonia & Finland Eastern-European countries, as we are Northern-European.

Although, the geographical centre of Europe is located in Western-Estonia:

That must be a version that includes the full eastern area of Russia as Europe, though.

[Äike]

I posted sources proving that what you said here isn't true. Shall you post any sources to disprove it?

I don't care enough about this topic, to spend time searching for certain things that I have read years ago just because some random Lithuanian said that I am wrong.


That must be a version that includes the full eastern area of Russia as Europe, though.

Europe ends with the Ural mountains.

[lI]

I don't care enough about this topic, to spend time searching for certain things that I have read years ago just because some random Lithuanian posted sources which proved that I am wrong.

Fixed! :thumb001:

[riverman]

Now "Karl" is neg repping me like a lunatic. :coffee:


:icon_cheesygrin:

[Mordid]

Now "Karl" is neg repping me like a lunatic. :coffee:


:icon_cheesygrin:
Me too. :lol:

[xajapa]

I would say Vienna, as it was the historical and cultural centre of the Austro-Hungarian empire. As you probably know, this empire was quite diverse in language, religion and even culture. Vienna captured the the diversity that was, and is, central Europe.

[kwp_wp]

according to my GPS Navi Central Europe is:
Poland, Czech Rep., Slovakia, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Hungary... that's it

[Veneda]

according to my GPS Navi Central Europe is:
Poland, Czech Rep., Slovakia, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Hungary... that's it
I would vote for Cracow as a center of Central Europe.

[Mordid]

I would vote for Cracow as a center of Central Europe.
No, it's not. Cracow is in Asia.

[brennus dux gallorum]

All in the list except of France.

[Fieraru]

All of the countries listed, but not all parts of them I think.

This definition makes the most sense:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/CentralEurope2.PNG

maybe eastern France, some of northern Italy, Transylvania, northern Yugoslavia, far west Ukraine even maybe.

many parts have a shared Austro-Hungarian empire legacy and similar architecture

From purely geographic stance, if you extend the border of Europe to the Urals, this area is not even exact center but shifted west of center

[Schüreck]

The former German and Austro-Hungarian empires.

I would say only the Austro-Hungarian empire and maybe the rest of Poland - according to me Germany is a western European country

[Guest24]

In my mind its mostly cultural rather than geographic and the distinctions dont always make sense. Poland for instance is eastern europe to me but Hungary is central

[CYKA]

Poland,rumania etc is already eastern europe

[Mortimer]

rumania, france and poland are not. poland and romania are partly in central europe the former Austro-Hungarian lands but they are too big countries on their own now, and they are largely eastern european. France is a western european nation.

[brennus dux gallorum]

All of the countries listed, but not all parts of them I think.

This definition makes the most sense:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/CentralEurope2.PNG

maybe eastern France, some of northern Italy, Transylvania, northern Yugoslavia, far west Ukraine even maybe.

many parts have a shared Austro-Hungarian empire legacy and similar architecture

From purely geographic stance, if you extend the border of Europe to the Urals, this area is not even exact center but shifted west of center

Not sure if Luxembourg, Switzerland or alsace have many (or anything, to be more precise) with Estonia or Slovakia

I am among those who support the existence of central Europe, which can include visegrad, Germany and Austria, but to an extent this is a term mostly spread by the eu and nato to strengthen their agenda for ex-communistic states' assimilation and acceptance

[Karol Klačansky]

central europe is Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Czech Rep., Slovakia, Hungary, Poland, Slovenia, Northern Croatia, Northern Serbia, parts of Romania.

[Autrigón]

God it's not so difficult! I've seen this question here hundred of times. Central Europe has always been Czech Republic, Slovakia, Austria and Hungary.
Nothing more nothing less.

Eastern France, Switzerland, Romania... :picard1:

[Ülev]

bump? :rolleyes:

[Ülev]

el bumpo No 2

[The Blade]

Czech Republic, Germany, Austria, Poland, Hungary and Slovakia.

[Myanthropologies]

Czechia, Poland, Slovenia, Slovakia, North Italy, Switzerland, Croatia, Austria, and some parts of Germany.

[Ice]

germany, czechia, hungary,slovenia,slovakia & austria

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

Switzerland
Austria
Germany

[Ülev]

Switzerland
Austria
Germany

thread closed!

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Those lands which speak German, Hungarian or are Slav-speaking but Catholic.

This

[stevieoniell]

In my university, I had to write my dissertation (https://www.ivoryresearch.com/custom-dissertation-thesis-writing/) on a related topic so I know what I am talking about. Actually, there is a list of countries that are considered as central Europe. I mean, it's already defined like capitals and ocean's names:

Central Europe:

Austria
the Czech Republic
Germany
Hungary
Liechtenstein
Poland
Slovakia
Switzerland
Croatia
Romania
Ukraine
Serbia
Slovenia

[Creoda]

Eastern Europeans who don't want to be called Eastern European.

[IrisSelene]

What? How is romania supposed to Be central europe? It's literally on the far East lol

Same for france which is on the far west

[oszkar07]

In my view it tends to be ...

Parts of Germany because other parts of Germany are also North Western Europe.
Austria Central Europe
Czech Republic Central Europe and partly central eastern Europe.
Hungary, Mostly Central Europe possibly parts of Hungary as Central Eastern Europe.

Parts of Poland but I think there is overlap with Eastern Europe.
Slovakia also partly Central Eastern Europe
Croatia central Europe and also overlapping south eastern europe.
Romania maybe in some regions but mostly Eastern Europe.
Ukraine mostly Eastern Europe
Serbia certain region maybe central Europe but mostly south South Eastern Europe
Slovenia Mostly Central Europe and minor Central Eastern Europe.

[Centurion]

Germany, Poland, Austria, Slovakia, Czech Republic and Hungary.

[Magnolia]

Hungary Austria Slovakia Slovenia and Czech Republic. That's all.

Shortly the core of A-H Empire. Polaks have nothing to do with Central Europe.

[leonj]

Hungary Austria Slovakia Slovenia and Czech Republic. That's all.

Shortly the core of A-H Empire. Polaks have nothing to do with Central Europe.

What about Germany and Switzerland?

[nittionia]

This seems like a fragile thread to give my opinion on


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[Teutone]

Germany is WEST

[The Lawspeaker]

Germany is Western Europe. Culturally speaking: so is Austria.

[Teutone]

Eastern Europeans who don't want to be called Eastern European.

hahahah


SO TRUE

[nittionia]

Germany is WEST

Agreed


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[ixulescu]

What? How is romania supposed to Be central europe? It's literally on the far East lol


Far East is in the Urals.
Transylvania, Crisana and Banat are Central European.

[Blondie]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Central_Europe_Regions.png/450px-Central_Europe_Regions.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Central_Europe_%28Brockhaus%29.PNG/800px-Central_Europe_%28Brockhaus%29.PNG

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/Grossgliederung_Europas-en.svg/800px-Grossgliederung_Europas-en.svg.png

https://www.interreg.de/INTERREG2014/EN/INTERREG/SixProgrammeAreas/CentralEurope/map_centraleurope.jpg?__blob=normal&v=5

https://mapofeurope.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Central-Europe.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Central-Europe-map.png

https://www.interreg-central.eu/Content.Node/discover/DiscoverHeaderNEW.JPG

https://comps.canstockphoto.com/central-europe-stock-illustration_csp18625081.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/CentralEurope.png/800px-CentralEurope.png

https://www.beautifulholidays.com.au/travel-guide/europe/maps/central-europe.gif

https://previews.123rf.com/images/harvepino/harvepino1812/harvepino181201175/113065341-central-europe-with-national-flags-on-blue-political-globe-3d-illustration-.jpg

https://external-preview.redd.it/5x61VR6I02O67XsenYbkJmu2taXs7d_Jo0ld-aSy_2c.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&5790903a

[Vožd]

Catholic east is geographicaly central Europe:

https://i.imgur.com/i3tQ9S0.gif

[Maks Luburic]

@Kis

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/CentralEurope.png/800px-CentralEurope.png

That´s the most suitable one, IMO.

[djavulskpungfoster]

it doesn't really exist imo - it's a very subjective question