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CelticViking
03-17-2012, 01:52 AM
SOME of Irelands leading academics are to do battle over a question that has vexed historians for centuries: “Did the Celts occupy Ireland - or didn’t they?” In what promises to be the historical debate of the year, Kilkenny Archaeological Society is attempting to put the age-old question to rest by inviting four leading authorities to discuss the motion in Kilkenny Castle onWednesday, March 28.


While it has always been assumed that we are a Celtic nation, modern research has led to differing opinion, with experts from the worlds of archaeology and academia challenging the cosy consensus. Some respected academics are suggesting that the Celts engagement with Ireland was fleeting, unsubstantial and a myth fostered and sustained by political expedience.

Proposing the motion “The Celts did occupy Ireland” will be Professor David Stifter, Professor of Old Irish in Maynooth College and Dr Graham Isaac of NUI Galway. Opposing the motion will be Professor Peter Woodman, Professor Emeritus of Archaeology in UCC and Professor Tadhg O’Keeffe, Head of The School of Archaeology in UCD. It will be chaired by the noted linguist, Dr Proinsias Ó Drisceoil.

The notion that Ireland is a Celtic Nation is one that has gone unchallenged for centuries. “It has been taught to children in schools up and down the country, and taken as read, just as we accept that the sky is blue”, according to Vice-President and Chair of the Programme Committee of the Kilkenny Archaeological Society, Pat Nolan.

“Clearly there was no invasion in the sense of the Viking intrusions of the late 8th century, or the Norman landings at Wexford in 1169. But still the perception is that the Celts did occupy Ireland albeit at some time remote in history leaving us with the title “Ireland the Celtic Nation”. That the Celts existed was accepted and largely unchallenged for generations.” he said.

Mr Nolan said archaeology thrives on such controversies and the two schools of thought have proceeded in tandem largely independent of each other. “So far no one has attempted to bring the two strands of opinion together to debate the issue based on the twin tracks of linguistic and archaeological evidence. So this debate will be much anticipated!”

He said there is a wide difference between ‘evidence’ and ‘proof’, and it is unlikely that there will ever be a definitive answer accepted by all to this intriguing historical conundrum.

Archaeology and history itself is a journey where the destination is never fully agreed. The path leading to it is full of twists, turns, debate and controversy as each generation tries to settle on their accepted version of the truth. A solicitor of long experience once proclaimed that “having heard the versions of two clearly honest witnesses given evidence about the same accident – you have to be very worried about history!”

The Debate takes place in Kilkenny Castle (kindly facilitated by OPW) on Wednesday, March 28 at 8pm.

Tickets are €7.00 and can be booked from Kilkenny Archaeological Society, Rothe House Kilkenny, by telephoning 056 772 2893 or by emailing info@rothehouse.com. Advance booking is strongly recommended.


http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/local/did-the-celts-really-occupy-ireland-find-out-at-hot-debate-1-3630245

Mercury
03-17-2012, 01:55 AM
Well even if actual Indo-European Celts, who created the Celtic culture, didn't invade Ireland, the Irish are still Celtic. Being a Celt is cultural not genetic. Most West Europeans in general are pre-aryan Megalithic people.

Óttar
03-17-2012, 09:25 PM
I encourage everyone to read or watch Quinn's The Atlantean Trilogy, it is both a book and a documentary, produced and written in the 80s about the links between Ireland, Spain and North Africa. He talks about the political expediency of the Celtic label. I think he claims the Irish inherited a Celtic language, but that most Irish are not Celtic genetically, but rather belong to an "Atlantic" population group i.e. a population settled along the coast of the British Isles and Europe (France and Spain.)

I second Mercury in identifying Celtic as primarily a linguistic and cultural term.

Septentrion
12-28-2012, 03:43 AM
The people of Eire are Celtic by excellence.

Xenomorph
12-29-2012, 03:46 AM
From what I've read, DNA evidence shows that the Irish are mostly not genetically related to other Celtic peoples originally. Their culture was probably brought by a small Celtic warrior elite from Gaul or Britain.

Faewerd
12-29-2012, 09:30 PM
According to the irish mythology there were succetive waves of migration or invasions in Ireland, The first peoples were mesolithic pre-indo-europeans, but they were subdued by the invading Indo-Europeans/Aryans, this is according to the kurgan hypothesis. Even if part of the irish population isn't genetically celtic, they are culturally, and many of the irish have at least a bit of celtic blood rushing in their veins. After the mesolithic peoples, came a wave of Neolithic peoples, using animal husbandry and farming, in contrast to the hunting-gathering activities of the former mesolithic peoples. According to the myth there were 5 waves of migration, The Parthelonians: first neolithic wave, using farming and some level of methalurgy; The Nemedians: introducing horses and crop rotation, and improving cattle husbandry; The FirBolg: Brought the bronze age to ireland, in special weapons, and expanding international trade with britain and the continent; The Tuatha de Danann: A Thulean Nordic tribe, masters of warfare, knows as the introductors of magic and art, which they learned and brough from the four cities, Ualia, Uindia, Goria and Moria, read these texts http://vikingfury.tumblr.com/post/14754769130/the-four-treasures-of-the-toutai-deuas-danuna , http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aballonas/message/41 , they represent the Human aspect in celtic mythology, they're the main pantheon of gods among all celtic peoples, just like the Aesir among the germans, among the gauls they're known as Toutai Deuas Danuna, the gods Lugus, Dagodeuos, Taranis, Maponos, Brigindu... are all Tuatha; and the last, The Milesians: Scythian Celts that passed through egypt and iberia before reaching Ireland.

this is my source: http://www.danann.org/library/arch/mil.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebor_Gab%C3%A1la_%C3%89renn

Obviously the irish are indo-europeans and celts, animal husbandry, use of horses and chariots are clearly traits of the indo-european peoples. It's nonsense saying that the irish aren't Celts.

Eddie Quist
04-22-2013, 06:46 AM
Ansin, conas a rinne muid suas go deireadh Ghaelach ag labhairt in Éirinn? Is dócha an Saxons Múinte US teanga seo!

Kastrioti1443
04-22-2013, 06:47 AM
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