Red wine

[Äike]

Good evening fellow Apricitians, I need some help. I'm an average Northerner and know practically nothing about wine, thus I need some advice.

Could anyone of you (probably the Romance ones) recommend me the best red wine that's available in stores? Preferably half-dry, as the dry ones and the sweet ones usually aren't good.

Tomorrow I'm going to the biggest wine store in Estonia and the price isn't a problem (well, below 200€ would be nice).

[Waidewut]

IMHO Romance members won't recommend you anything good.
Better ask Padre, he is Georgian, so he will recommend you a good Georgian wine and it will be ex-Soviet, thus more familiar to your taste.

[Äike]

IMHO Romance members won't recommend you anything good.
Better ask Padre, he is Georgian, so he will recommend you a good Georgian wine and it will be ex-Soviet, thus more familiar to your taste.

Well, I personally prefer white wine and I haven't drank any ex-soviet wines. I know that the ex-prime minister of Estonia, Mart Laar, loves Georgian wine.

[gold_fenix]

If you know bit about wines, then you shouldn't pay for a good wine, you have to develop your palate with common wines

[Äike]

If you know bit about wines, then you shouldn't pay for a good wine, you have to develop your palate with common wines

Well, I'm trying to impress a special someone who only drinks red wine. As I prefer white wine, looking at red wines in a store for me is like looking at the Chinese alphabet.

[Duke]

go with something up your alley, you cant handle a good red wine

[Germanicus]

Always look for a French Cabernet Sauvignon Cru or Grand cru....trust me!

[Padre Organtino]

Generally speaking a decent way to choose a relatively good French wine would be to look where it is bottled at. Mis en bouteille a la Propriete or Mis en boutelle au Chateau or Mis en bouteille au domaine mean that the wine was processed and bottled by the local producers and usually indicates relatively good quality.
Out of Georgian red wines Kindzmaraui is on top IMO and Telliani valley firm seems to have good quality wine.
Note that anything above say 30-40 euros is a sort of difficult to differentiate from lower price wine since you really need to be experienced to enjoy the taste of really refined wines (I can't boast with being a great wine expert myself).

[Falkata]

If you want to impress somebody try with Vega Sicilia.
I dont know how much a bottle can cost over there though

[Äike]

Generally speaking a decent way to choose a relatively good French wine would be to look where it is bottled at. Mis en bouteille a la Propriete or Mis en boutelle au Chateau or Mis en bouteille au domaine mean that the wine was processed and bottled by the local producers and usually indicates relatively good quality.
Out of Georgian red wines Kindzmaraui is on top IMO and Telliani valley firm seems to have good quality wine.
Note that anything above say 30-40 euros is a sort of difficult to differentiate from lower price wine since you really need to be experienced to enjoy the taste of really refined wines (I can't boast with being a great wine expert myself).

I saw Kindzmaraui and Telliani Valley wines. The Kindzmaraui ones did cost around 6 euros, the Tellieani Valley ones were around 20 euros.


If you want to impress somebody try with Vega Sicilia.
I dont know how much a bottle can cost over there though

I didn't see that in the store.

[PetiteParisienne]

Pinot Noirs are usually fool proof.

[Äike]

Anyway, there was a wine expert in the store and I talked to him for a bit. Finally I bought a bottle of Gato Negro Carmenere (http://www.google.ee/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.reidoswhiskys.com.br/shop/config/imagens_conteudo/produtos/imagensGRD/GRD_825_22654-7.jpg&sa=X&ei=0JZnT8jvOIeB4gTttMyzCA&ved=0CAkQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNFI1qooIeAnDTZlPoXA9crAIypsEw) and a bottle of Bonacchi Chianti Riserva (http://www.sassewein.de/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/6800-chianti-riserva-bonacchi.jpg) 2006 edition.

I have no idea how they taste, but considering what the wine expert told me, they should be drinkable to me and please the more experienced red wine drinker. I usually don't like the taste of red wine.

[Treffie]

Even though I no longer drink, the best red wines are New World ones (more suited to our Northern palates). My favourites are;

Ernest & Julio Gallo - Cabernet Sauvignon (http://www.sourgrapes.ie/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/ernest-and-julio-gallo-estate-cabernet-sauvignon-2002-blog.jpg)
Jacob's Creek - Shiraz (http://wine.psydr.com/wine/images/2006_jacobs_creek_shiraz.jpg)
Trileka - Cabernet Sauvignon (http://wine.psydr.com/wine/images/2006_jacobs_creek_shiraz.jpg)

[Comte Arnau]

If you want to impress somebody try with Vega Sicilia.
I dont know how much a bottle can cost over there though

I doubt he can find any of the sublime Iberian red wines there at an affordable price.

[Loddfafner]

If you know bit about wines, then you shouldn't pay for a good wine, you have to develop your palate with common wines

Price is a semi-reliable indicator of quality. I have found that $30 wines tend to be optimal for a special occasion. Those much over that tend to be lost on me. $15 wines are fine for a regular occasion. Anything much less than that (with a few notable exceptions that I stock up on regularly :) ) often ends up in salad dressing.

For red wines, those from the St. Emilion district of Bordeaux have a good track record of pleasing my palate. Paso Robles is promising for California wines. In the $15 range, Ravenswood is perfect for Heathen occasions and its three ravens label sets an appropriate tone. Smoking Loon is a very drinkable $8 wine.

[ficuscarica]

Up to 200 Euro? That´s crazy. French Gran Cru wines usually are good, so are most Pinot Noirs from the German wine region "Baden". You also should look for wines from Eastern Austria or from South Tyrol. To me it´s alway important to have a picture of the place where the wine grows in mind...

South Tyrol: http://www.berge-exclusiv.de/wp-content/uploads/Suedtirol-slow-weine-2.jpg
Baden: http://gaestehausschaetzle.de/images/vogtsburg/pic5.jpg
Burgundy: http://www.swisseuropetravel.com.au/SWTstores/FLEX20/15/ATTRFILE_OverviewImage/FRCY04-Cycling-en-Bourgogne.gif
Eastern Austria: http://www.merkur-online.de/bilder/2011/08/16/1362824/2061724908-steiermark.9.jpg

[larali]

I don't like wine, but when I do drink it, I prefer the sweeter stuff (rose?) and sometimes I'll drink merlot with husband because he likes it.

[Albion]

Karl, get some British (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_from_the_United_Kingdom) / English wine (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/blog.php?b=318). Or if you want the authentic Nordic experience, try some Danish wine. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2072684.stm)

[ficuscarica]

Karl, get some British (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_from_the_United_Kingdom) / English wine (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/blog.php?b=318). Or if you want the authentic Nordic experience, try some Danish wine. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2072684.stm)

No offense, but if he wants to get some really good red wine he should look a little bit further south. ;)

[Caismeachd]

Is it true that the red wines from Sonoma California are generally better than the European wines due to climate? I'm drinking a Sonoma Merlot right now but it's not quite very good. "Ravenswood". It was something I drank 10 years ago in my early 20's and it's actually fairly poor quality. But compared to Australian wine (which supposedly has an even better climate for wineries) it's better most Aus wines I've had.



And I agree with ficuscarica that grapes need to be grown in a very arid condition to be good. I would think that grapes grown in colder climates would be very tart.

[Albion]

No offense, but if he wants to get some really good red wine he should look a little bit further south. ;)

Ours have won awards, I'm not sure about the Danes. He needs Nordic wine! the more northern the better! :p


And I agree with ficuscarica that grapes need to be grown in a very arid condition to be good. I would think that grapes grown in colder climates would be very tart.

Well apparently not:


It is possible to grow grapes and make good wine in England and Wales but it is not easy - the U.K. is at the absolute fringe of the grape growing regions of the world. ...

The curious thing about the vine is that it actually produces the best wine at the limit of its possibilities. In very hot countries it produces quantity but not quality, in cool countries it can produce quality but not so much quantity. So in England, whilst disappointments will be many and quantities will generally be small, quality can be outstanding and can equal or beat the best of any other wine-producing country in the world.

Grapes don't need arid conditions, they need a lot of water. What they need is strong sunlight to ripen and a long growing season.
The south of England just about meets that criteria, France and Germany do too but arid parts of Spain often have to irrigate vineyards.

[ficuscarica]

@Albion: Good red wine in Germany and France is only grown in the latitude around Heidelberg or Paris and than southwards. Further north you need really steep hills to produce good red wine, because of the lack of sun and summer warmth. But even Cornwall is farther north. I think if you want to grow wine in England white wine is the better choice. However, maybe there are some areas with a really nice microclimate where red wine is worth a try. I could imagine it to work at least in South England when the vineyard is placed on a steep, hot hill.

[The Ripper]

cw2gGfD5R4g

[Riki]

IMHO Romance members won't recommend you anything good.
Better ask Padre, he is Georgian, so he will recommend you a good Georgian wine and it will be ex-Soviet, thus more familiar to your taste.

:lol00002:

[The Ripper]

:lol00002:

That's not the punchline.

[Albion]

@Albion: Good red wine in Germany and France is only grown in the latitude around Heidelberg or Paris and than southwards. Further north you need really steep hills to produce good red wine, because of the lack of sun and summer warmth. But even Cornwall is farther north. I think if you want to grow wine in England white wine is the better choice. However, maybe there are some areas with a really nice microclimate where red wine is worth a try. I could imagine it to work at least in South England when the vineyard is placed on a steep, hot hill.

There's no shortage of hills, the geology of the south east basically mirrors northern France.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Geologic_map_SE_England_%26_Channel_EN.svg/1000px-Geologic_map_SE_England_%26_Channel_EN.svg.png

Most of the vineyards do grow white grapes, only a few grow reds and these are usually hybrids with the muscadines - blasphemy! ;)

Personally I see no problem with using hybrids in marginal areas to produce table grapes or maybe even cheap wines.
If climates become warmer over Europe as people predict then England may not be at the frontiers in the future. The hybrid growing would perhaps move to Scotland or Northern England with larger scale Vitis Vinifera in the south and Midlands.

If the climates did migrate this much then it would be interesting to see where Germany's production centred, if it migrated north and if countries like Belgium would develop more of an industry.

On a side note, Vitis Vinifera doesn't suffer as badly from phylloxera here, partly due to the lack of hosts (vineyards are few and far between) and partly because the country isn't as suitable for them. Often at garden centres they're sold on their own roots because of that.

[ficuscarica]

@Albion: That´s interesting. Look at this map: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Uk_topo_en.jpg

Especially around Exeter and Plymouth there are hills that could provide good conditions on their sun-exposed sides. This is also the warmest region in England. Now find a place with a good, warm ground and maybe some good white wine can be produced. The mild winters could allow some cottage and windmill palms to grow in the vineyard. Some people with the right vision could really produce a good wine and form a beautiful and unique landscape. It´s mainly about courage and passion.
I think hot, steep hills with warm stones are really the key to a good English wine. The difference between the average temperature in July in Southern England and here is as big as the difference between here and central Italy. This has to be compensated by choosing really warm places for the wine to grow - as steep as possible. The long autumn in the oceanic English climate in England could be helpful, too. But octobers would have to be dry and sunny. I don´t know whether they are in England.

As the climate gets hotter especially the northern German wine growers, who focus on Riesling, will get problems, because Riesling doesn´t like the hot summers we now have. But that´s not too big a problem, because red wine gets more and more popular and they can gradually exchange their varieties.
Here in my region we mostly grow Pinot Noir and other Pinots, which don´t have a problem with the hot summers and will still produce a great wine when the climate gets warmer. But the changing climate encourages wine growers to try growing more mediterranean wine like Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon. More and more vineyards have those varieties.

I can imagine wines like Riesling, Chardonnay or Auxerrois to be successfully grown in England, if the right, warm spots are found.

[Peyrol]

http://www.wine-searcher.com/regions-langhe

http://www.snooth.com/region/italy/piemonte/langhe/

http://www.giacosa.it/pagine/eng/famiglia_giacosa_produttori_vini_neive/vino_vigneti_langhe_roero.lasso

[PetiteParisienne]

There's a gorgeous Californian cabernet sauvignon called Liberte. I make sure to buy a few bottles every time I visit the US:

http://tjswinenotes.com/2011/01/10/familia-nueva-2008-liberte-cabernet-sauvignon-paso-robles/

[Foxy]

Some red wines with which I got wonderfully drunken:

Rosso del Duca (Italian)
Citra (Italian)
Montepulciano d'Abruzzo (Italian)
Negroamaro (Italian)
Zaccagnini (Italian)

Some rosè:

Mateus (Portuguese)
Cerasuolo Cantina Tollo (Italian)

[Albion]

[QUOTE=ficuscarica;815180]@Albion: That´s interesting. Look at this map: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Uk_topo_en.jpg

Seen it many times, I contribute to geography, flora and fauna articles on Wikipedia often.


Especially around Exeter and Plymouth there are hills that could provide good conditions on their sun-exposed sides.

If you mean the brown / red hills then I highly doubt it, those are Dartmoor and they're very wet, windswept and have poor soils.
Basically that far north and close to the sea and at that altitude leads to a poor climate. Most of it is all hill farms, sheep, moorland and abandoned bronze age villages.
I know on the continent the hills are generally forested in meadows, but here rainfall significantly increases with altitude.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/View_to_Sharpitor_from_Meavy.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Crazywell_cross_1.JPG


This is also the warmest region in England.

This isn't totally true. It's the mildest region with the warmest winters, but the south east from the Isle of Wight to Dover has the best summer temperatures.
The summer temperatures are what really counts with wine. The vines can survive our mild winters easily, but they need a lot of sun and heat in summer and the hottest parts of England in summer are the south and east.
These tend to have a more continental-like climate whereas the south west is definitely temperate. The temperate climate in the south west means the winters are mild, but the summers aren't as hot as in the south east.

These are the real maps you need to look at:

http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/4349/eugloboptapresentation.png
Sunlight - notice how the South West is similar to Baden and the South East to the Rhine and Belgium.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/7100_1km/Sunshine_Average_1971-2000_7.gif

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/7100_1km/MeanTemp_Average_1971-2000_7.gif
See what I mean about the South West?

Sunlight and temperature are key. Some useful maps can be found here. (http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/averages/ukmapavge.html)

Lack of sunlight leads to more acidity in my opinion. That is partly why apples from northern climates tend to be "sharper" in flavour than ones from southern areas (compare Cox's or Elstar to Golden Delicious - the latter is grown here in the south east only).

Acidity is the key to making beverages.


Now find a place with a good, warm ground and maybe some good white wine can be produced. The mild winters could allow some cottage and windmill palms to grow in the vineyard. Some people with the right vision could really produce a good wine and form a beautiful and unique landscape. It´s mainly about courage and passion.

On that map, the yellow marked hills would be much better for vines. They tend to be steep, if not high and have good soils.
Rich soils lead to vine growth at the expense of grapes, but Dartmoor's soils are just too poor and acidic I think.

The lower, yellow marked hills in the south west are like this:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/02/14/article-1250930-0849AD26000005DC-163_468x286.jpg
http://www.sungleam.co.uk/Devon-respite-care/devon-care/devon-respite-care%20031.jpg

The south east tends to be more like this:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3289/3414552542_67f869ceb1_b.jpg


I think hot, steep hills with warm stones are really the key to a good English wine. The difference between the average temperature in July in Southern England and here is as big as the difference between here and central Italy. This has to be compensated by choosing really warm places for the wine to grow - as steep as possible.

Well there's plenty of hills like that, but if the hills are too steep they'll have their own micro-climate which here tends to be cool and wet leading to very acidic soils.
The south west can grow grapes but they're grown as far as southern Wales. I still think the South East is the better area since it has the warmest summers which is what grapes really need.

Grapes have been grown in the south east (especially Kent) since the Romans and have experienced periods of prosperity (medieval warm period) and periods of decline (dark age interruptions, little Ice Age, French competition).
The Little Ice Age and French competition finished the industry in the industrial period. It started recovering in the 1950s.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Vineyard_at_Wyken_Hall_-_geograph.org.uk_-_216836.jpg
A vineyard near Cambridge - see your map

http://www.three-choirs-vineyards.co.uk/uploads/images/vyard.jpg
A vineyard near Canterbury


As the climate gets hotter especially the northern German wine growers, who focus on Riesling, will get problems, because Riesling doesn´t like the hot summers we now have. But that´s not too big a problem, because red wine gets more and more popular and they can gradually exchange their varieties.

A lot of the German hardier varieties are grown here. I think as the climates warm you'll get viticulture migrating up the Rhine nearly to the Low Countries.


Here in my region we mostly grow Pinot Noir and other Pinots, which don´t have a problem with the hot summers and will still produce a great wine when the climate gets warmer. But the changing climate encourages wine growers to try growing more mediterranean wine like Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon. More and more vineyards have those varieties.

Many of the vines in England Vitis vinifera or hybrids. The most popular varieties grown are "Seyval Blanc" (hybrid) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seyval_Blanc), "Reichensteiner" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichensteiner), "Müller-Thurgau" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Müller-Thurgau) and "Bacchus" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacchus_(grape)). Notice how the majority are German.

Lesser grown varieties are "Chardonnay" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chardonnay), "Madeleine Angevine" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madeleine_Angevine), "Huxelrebe" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huxelrebe), "Ortega" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ortega_(grape)) and "Schonburger" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schonburger).

Amongst the few reds that are grown are "Dornfelder" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornfelder), "Pinot_meunier" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinot_meunier) and "Pinot Noir" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinot_Noir).

All our own cultivars were lost with our industry.


Now obviously it'd take a large change in climate and a lot of effort to compete with the great wine growing regions of the world, but I do believe we have scope for a decent industry.
For table grapes and cheap wines at least along with perhaps the odd superior wine or two to enter into the competitions. ;)

The average man on the street isn't a connoisseur of fine wines. Most people accept good wines but aren't looking for anything special. When they are they buy quality at a high price.


I can imagine wines like Riesling, Chardonnay or Auxerrois to be successfully grown in England, if the right, warm spots are found.

The right places are there because they're already being grown here. I think you underestimate our climate and the hardiness of grape vines.
Grapes need warm, hot summers which the south of England can increasingly offer. Even Denmark has a small industry based around hybrids now. although Denmark is really at the edge of cultivation.

If climate change does goes as predicted we may see some areas in Southern Europe lost to cultivation or switching to other varieties. England cannot compete with France but does have a lot to offer.

Some interesting quotes:


The limestone soils of Kent and other portions of southern England are suitable for growing the grapes used to produce sparkling wine, and particularly on south-facing slopes

Even Scotland's having a go, but I do really think they're pushing it. This will be vinegar, Scotland is one of the cloudiest countries in Europe. It'd only work on Tiree, it has the sun but I'm not sure about the heat.


Chef Peter Gottgens, owner of the Ardeonaig Hotel in Perthshire, planned to produce a white Riesling wine in 2010 to serve his hotel guests.It would be the first wine produced in Scotland in commercial quantities. Gottens had planted 48 vines as an experiment in 2006, and planned to expand this to 800. Gottens said: “Cold is not the problem, the lack of sunshine is our biggest problem. If the wine is fit for consumption it will be served by the glass with our food. If it's not good enough we can make it into vinegar.”


The Romans introduced wine making to the United Kingdom, and even tried to grow grapes as far north as Lincolnshire. It was successfully done till the cooling in the 800s although the remnants of this can still be seen to this day in the city of Lincoln in the gardens of the medieval Bishop's Palace. Winemaking continued at least down to the time of the Normans with over 40 vineyards in England mentioned in the Domesday Book, although much of what was being produced was for making communion wine for the Eucharist.


Just as English wine began to recover from the epidemics of Phylloxera and Powdery Mildew in the mid 19th Century, brought back with the Explorers of New America, commercial English wine was dealt a heavy blow. In 1860 the government, under Lord Palmerston (Liberal) supported free trade and drastically cut the tax on imported wines from 1 shilling to 2 pence, a decrease of 83%. English wine was therefore out-competed by superior foreign products that could be sold at a lower cost to the customer. The twilight of British winemaking tradition, which stretched back to the very first Roman explorers, was brought to an end with the onset of the First World War, as the need for crops and food took priority over wine production. The rationing of sugar pushed the knife even deeper until, for the first time in 2000 years, English wines were no longer being produced in either Wessex, nor the rest of the country.


Viticulture was revived in the 1970s onwards. The first English wines were influenced by the sweet German wines like Liebfraumilch and Hock that were popular in the 1970s, and were blended white and red sweet wines, called cream wine (creams). The largest vineyard in England is Denbies Wine Estate in Surrey, which has 265 acres (1.07 km2) under vines, and a visitors' centre that is open all year round.


In 2004 a panel judging European sparkling wines awarded most of the top ten positions to English wines - the remaining positions going to French Champagnes. Similar results have encouraged an explosion of sparkling wine plantings. English still wines too have begun to pick up awards at most big wine competitions, notably Decanter, and the IWSC.
Winemaking has spread from the South East and South West and also to the Midlands and the north of England, with Yorkshire, Shropshire, Derbyshire, Leicestershire and Lancashire boasting at least one vineyard each as of 2007.


Significant plantings have been happening across the south of the country with a number of farmers contract growing vines for some of the major English producers. Farmers are looking at the potential benefits of growing vines as the return per tonne for grapes over more traditional crops are not to be ignored. A field of wheat might yield 3 tonnes per acre at around £120 per tonne. Growing grapes could yield 3 to 4 tonnes per acre at around £950 to £1100 per tonne.


There's definitely an industry for grapes in England, even if it's just for table grapes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_grapes) and cheap plonk. (http://m.dictionary.com/d/?q=plonk) And if we can produce a handful of quality wines then that is good enough for me.

Sorry for the huge post, I just get carried away. ;)

[ficuscarica]

Thanks for the awesome information, very interesting. :)

[Damião de Góis]

Red wine is the most overrated drink ever.

[Catrau]

Nobody notices Iberian reds. -That's good!
You can't imagine how glad I'm. Keep consuming french wines because they are the best, right?!!
This way, we can calmly continue drinking our fantastic iberian wines at a nice price away from speculation, because it's what's going to happen if they become world known. You don't need to make a big effort to understant where conditions are the best for the grapes and wine maturation: climate (cold winters and hot summers) and soils (schistous).
I could show you a nice website where you can find the usual results of blind wine tasting (you know: no labels, no countries, no predefined ideas) but I won't because I want our "gods nectar" to continue afordable since production has not the french scale. I can tell you that It's very unusal to buy a bed red in Portugal even at a 4€ a bottle.:thumb001: I haven't found one in years.


Alentejo
http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/Esporo.jpg

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/Alentejo34.jpg

Douro:
http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/010420121230.jpg

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/TM22.jpg

La Rioja:
Vivanco wine cellars and museum at Briones.
http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/Bodega-Dinastia-Vivanco.jpg

Frank Gehry's Marqués de Riscal wine cellar at Elciego
http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/ciego.jpg

La Rioja vineyards
http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/la_rioja.jpg

Cheers
;)

[Caismeachd]

I've had wines from Portugal but they were always Port wines. Can't really comment on those since I don't like sweet wine very much.

[Catrau]

I've had wines from Portugal but they were always Port wines. Can't really comment on those since I don't like sweet wine very much.

Douro wines are produced in the same region of Port but that's all. We have a lot of different wines apart from the fantastic reds. The best-selling worldwide is Rosé. Do you believe that we don't drink that stuff? We have Verde, but that's different story, a cluster of Verde called Alvarinho is also something to try. We have Moscatel and Madeira that are sweet, kind of Port.

My favorites are reds from Alentejo and Douro.
Of course there are some extremely expensive stuff but in general it is cheaper than french and the price/quality relation is fantastic. I haven't lost the will to buy me a Douro “Barca Velha” one of this days but it ranges the +200€.


https://www.garrafeiranacional.com/vinho-do-douro/barca-velha-1966-tinto/ms_prod_pt_404/

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/Vinho2.jpg

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/1Catrau/Vinho1.jpg

[Rouxinol]

Nobody notices Iberian reds. -That's good!
You can't imagine how glad I'm. Keep consuming french wines because they are the best, right?!!
This way, we can calmly continue drinking our fantastic iberian wines at a nice price away from speculation, because it's what's going to happen if they become world known. You don't need to make a big effort to understant where conditions are the best for the grapes and wine maturation: climate (cold winters and hot summers) and soils (schistous).
I could show you a nice website where you can find the usual results of blind wine tasting (you know: no labels, no countries, no predefined ideas) but I won't because I want our "gods nectar" to continue afordable since production has not the french scale. I can tell you that It's very unusal to buy a bed red in Portugal even at a 4€ a bottle.:thumb001: I haven't found one in years.

Unfortunately, besides Port and Madeira wines, Portuguese red wines are still not that well known abroad (well, outside the Portuguese-speaking world). Last time I travelled abroad - to New York - it wasn't easy to find a restaurant with Portuguese wines other than Porto (Port) and Madeira wines. Yet, all of them had a super extensive list of French wines, some at exorbitant prices (like +500€). Anyway, I agree with you on the excellent quality of our red wines, and for that they should receive their well deserved credit at the world's best restaurants and foodie's centers. By the way, I drink rosé wine, it's one of my favorites in the summer to go along with seafood dishes.

[Daco Celtic]

cabernet sauvignon for life

[Victor]

I drink red dry and semi dry wine. Russian Fanagoria red dry, Macedonian Stobi red semi dry, Spanish red dry Sangre de Torro, South African red dry Pinotage by Misty Walleys and Portuguese dry Coehlo Branco. All are widely presented in Russia, have acceptable price and good quality.

Most frequent of all listed are Macedonian Stobi and SA Pinotage by Misty Walleys. I used to drink Montenegrin Vranac by Plantaze, but now I rarely see it here. Same as Magyar Egri Bikaver. We've got tonns of cheap Argentinian and Chilean wine recently, but I prefer to drink something I'm used to or something what was recommended to me.

I have two bottles of Massandra winery (established in 1800s Russian empire) from Crimea 2001 when it was still Ukrainian, red dry and white dry wines, its price now is around 750 euros for both atm, I will wait some more time, it's considered to be a valuable year, so I will sell it later. Found them in 2020 at some goddamn shelves during repairing the flat where my parents probably placed them long ago after coming back from Nikolaev.

[Victor]

cabernet sauvignon for life

Cabernet Saperavi (Georgian/South Russia spread grapes sort) is great, too.

[Salty Ears]

Last week i tried Fanagoria Saperavi F Style and Cru Lermont, it was nice with bbq.
Also i like Barista Pinotage.
But more i like white moscato, crimean Inkermann fully satisfy me, but sometimes i seek for some more interesting

[Victor]

Last week i tried Fanagoria Saperavi F Style and Cru Lermont, it was nice with bbq.
Also i like Barista Pinotage.
But more i like white moscato, crimean Inkermann fully satisfy me, but sometimes i seek for some more interesting

I don't like to try always something new, it's like craft beer madness almost a decade ago when people had some crave for something new non stop. I'm not a beer fan (but every may and june I drink beer under influence of other people), it's always 5% eurolagers.

[Salty Ears]

I don't like to try always something new, it's like craft beer madness almost a decade ago when people had some crave for something new non stop. I'm not a beer fan (but every may and june I drink beer under influence of other people), it's always 5% eurolagers.

Hedonism that turn you to swine donkey VS the opportunity to choose for a better quality of life

[Victor]

Hedonism that turn you to swine donkey VS the opportunity to choose for a better quality of life

I think it's between two ways of extremeness. One thing is to drink some cheap piss for the sake of price and huge quantity, other thing is to drink something you enjoy with a good quality. For example I love quality food, I don't eat processed food, but I never loved complicated meals, from year to year my menu is the same, I want quality food which I love, I never need something new. In most of cases it's a piece of meat and fished cooked by myself, its fried or boiled eggs, it's a salad cut on place from numerous components. Nothing that should wait for hours or complicated way of cooking or some special things. The only new thing I've started to eat regularly since 2019 is beef liver. All the other stuff are my childhood and 14-18 years old habits.