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Onur
03-20-2012, 04:48 PM
I wanted to post this message because of Arch Hades`s question in another thread;

"Turkmen"?

What's up with all these Turks have 'Turk' in their last name?

NBA star Hedo Turkoglu


I am also curious about this issue but not with the people in Turkey. I am curious about the non-Turkish people who has this surname all over the world. Some families in Europe has "Turk" surname for nearly 1000 years. Check this out;

Last name: Turk
This name, recorded as Turch and Turcus in the Domesday Book of 1086, may be either an abbreviated form of the Olde Norse given name Thurkill from 'Thor', a divine name referring to the God of Thunder, plus 'ketill', a cauldron, or a nickname from the Olde French 'Turc', meaning 'Turk' and originally given to someone who had taken part in the crusades against the Turks. The Turks were renowned for their bravery, ferocity and fighting prowess and consequently the nickname would have been regarded as a complimentary one. A Ricardus filius (son of) Turk appears in the 1205 'Charter Rolls of Kent' and a William Turc in the 1193 'Pipe Rolls of Gloucestershire'. In 1296 one, Robert Turk was recorded in the 'Subsidy Rolls of Sussex'. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Eadwin le Turch, which was dated circa 1140 'Early London Personal Names' by E. Ekwall, during the reign of King Stephen, Count of Blois, 1135 - 1154. Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation. In England this was known as Poll Tax. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling.

Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Turk#ixzz1pfplC29I
Actually, this kinda explains the situation. Maybe the surname/nickname Turk became popular after first crusades and people may started to be called as such for a compliment.


Here is something interesting;

FamilyTreeDNA Turk Surname Project
Background
This project includes 480 variant spellings of the TURK surname. The genealogical data for over 60,000 individuals within this study are maintained at http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=turk-society&I11.x=25&I11.y=3

Surnames
Al Turk, D' Turck, Dark, Darke, Darkes, De Tuerck, De Tuercks, De Turck, De Türck, De Türcks, De Turk, De Turquot, Del Turco, Deorc, Deracke, Derc, Derck, Derichsen, Derick, Derix, Derk, Derrick, Derx, Dierck, Dierke, Dirck, Dircker, Dirk, Dirkens, Dirker, Dirking, Dirks, Dirruck, Doerge, Doerich, Dörckens, Dörge, Dörich, Dork, Dörken, Duehrke, Duerck, Duercke, Duerckh, Duerckin, Duerge, Duerk, Duerks, Dührke, Dürck, Dürcke, Durckh, Dürckh, Dürckin, Dureczek, Durg, Durge, Dürge, Durgee, Durges, Durgi, Dürich, Durk, Dürk, Dürks, Durrege, Durrige, Duruk, Duruken, Dyerck, Dyerckens, Dyercks, Dyercksen, Dyercksz, Dyerckszoon, Dyerckx, Dyercx, Dyerkx, Ertürk, Götürkler, Le Turc, Le Turch, Le Turcq, Le Turk, Le Turque, M' Turk, MacToirc, MacTorc, MacTuirc, MacTurc, MacTurck, MacTurcke, MacTurk, MakTurck, McTurck, McTurk, Ozgenturk, Ozturk, Öztürk, Storck, Storic, Storich, Stork, Targ, Tark, Tarka, Tarket, Tatarka, Taureck, Taurk, Tearcot, Tearks, Teirk, Tek, Terck, Tercus, Terk, Terkel, Terkes, Terrke, Teyrke, Thierke, Thirkill, Thor, Thorell, Thorich, Şorkell, Thuericke, Thuerk, Thuerke, Thurch, Thürch, Thürck, Thurcke, Thüricke, Thurk, Thürk, Thurke, Thürke, Thursk, Tirek, Tirk, Tirke, Tjierks, Toerge, Torcat, Torchhe, Torck, Törge, Toric, Tork, Torka, Torke, Torketil, Torok, Török, Torquat, Torquate, Torquatte, Torquet, Torquete, Torquette, Tourcat, Tourcate, Tourcatt, Tourcatte, Tourky, Trk, Tuerch, Tuerck, Tuercke, Tuercken, Tuerckens, Tuerckh, Tuerckheim, Tuercki, Tuerckin, Tuercks, Tuerge, Tuerger, Tuerh, Tuerich, Tuerk, Tuerkau, Tuerkch, Tuerke, Tuerkels, Tuerken, Tuerkes, Tuerkesin, Tuerkh, Tuerkheimer, Tuerkhen, Tuerkhin, Tuerkin, Tuerking, Tuerkis, Tuerkius, Tuerkk, Tuerkon, Tuerks, Tuerksen, Tuerksheim, Tuerpe, Tuirc, Tük, Tunçtürk, Turacek, Turack, Turak, Turatschek, Turc, Turca, Turcaes, Turcaeus, Turcaij, Turcal, Turcan, Turcas, Turcat, Turcate, Turcato, Turcatt, Turcatte, Turcaud, Turcault, Turcaus, Turcco, Turcens, Turch, Türch, Turche, Turchek, Turchelli, Turcheschi, Turchetti, Turchetto, Turchi, Turchin, Turchini, Turchio, Turchyn, Turci, Turcic, Turcin, Turcinovic, Turcio, Turcios, Turck, Türck, Turcke, Türcke, Turcken, Türcken, Türckens, Türckh, Turckheim, Türckheim, Turcki, Türckin, Turcks, Türcks, Turcksin, Turckx, Turco, Turcol, Turcot, Turcott, Turcotte, Turcq, Turcqs, Turcs, Turcsany, Turcu, Turcul, Turcus, Turcx, Turcxkens, Turczak, Turczyk, Turczyn, Turczynowicz, Turczynski, Turec, Turecek, Tureck, Turecky, Turecsek, Turek, Tureka, Turetsky, Turetzky, Türge, Turgel, Türger, Türging, Türh, Türich, Turick, Turincks, Turk, Türk, Turka, Turkaev, Turkal, Turkalak, Turkale, Turkaleiva, Turkali, Turkalj, Turkall, Turkalo, Turkaly, Turkan, Türkan, Turkane, Turkanin, Turkanis, Turkanovic, Turkas, Turkatil, Türkau, Turkawaka, Turkawka, Turkcer, Türkch, Turke, Türke, Turkel, Turke'li, Türkeli, Türkels, Turkelson, Turkeltaub, Turkeltov, Turken, Türken, Turkenburg, Turkenich, Turkenitz, Turkeniz, Turkenkopf, Turkenstein, Turker, Türker, Turkeri, Turkertaub, Turkes, Türkes, Türkesin, Turkesse, Turket, Turketil, Turkett, Turkevich, Türkewitz, Turkey, Turkeyy, Turkfeld, Türkgenç, Turkh, Türkh, Turkhaus, Turkheim, Türkheim, Türkheimer, Türkhen, Turkhin, Türkhin, Turki, Türki, Turkieltaub, Turkienbaum, Turkienicz, Turkientaub, Turkiewicz, Türkig, Turkill, Turkin, Türkin, Türking, Turkington, Turkis, Türkis, Turkisch, Turkish, Turkisher, Turkiss, Turkit, Türkius, Türkk, Turkkan, Türkkan, Turkki, Turkkis, Turkle, Türklitz, Türkmann, Turkmany, Turkmen, Türkmen, Turkner, Turknett, Turko, Turkoc, Türkoğlu, Turkoff, Turkoglu, Türkoglu, Turkoiz, Türkon, Turkos, Turkosz, Turkot, Türkot, Turkov, Turkova, Turkovic, Turkovich, Turkovitch, Turkow, Turkowicz, Türkowicz, Turkowitch, Turkowna, Turkowska, Turkowski, Turkowsky, Turkozonka, Turks, Türks, Türksen, Türksheim, Turkstra, Turku, Turkula, Turkus, Turkussztejn, Turkvan, Turkwane, Turkwood, Türkyan, Turkyilmaz, Turkyn, Turkys, Türkyılmaz, Turock, Turok, Türpe, Turq, Turqua, Turquand, Turquat, Turquate, Turquatt, Turquatte, Turque, Turquet, Turquin, Turquosta, Turrek, Turrich, Turriska, Turska, Turski, Tursko, Tursky, Turuk, Turuken, Tuyrchin, Twrk, Tyrcke, Von Tuerckheim, Von Tuerke, Von Tuerkheim, Von Türckheim, Von Turk, Von Türke, Von Turkenstein, Von Türkheim, İt, Yurttürk

This database includes the complete extractions of the following eight variations: TERK, TIRK, TUERK, TURCK, TUREK, TURK, TURKE & TURKS from US censuses (1790-1930), UK censuses (1841-1901), Canadian censuses, and from the US Social Security Death Index. Records also derive from various archives, published genealogies, and online records, such as: Ancestral File, GenForum, International Genealogical Index and Rootsweb, as well as records from many individuals.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/turk-guild/

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/turk-guild/default.aspx?section=goals

The Turk Surname Society
Annual Report of the TURK Surname Society
5/13/08
Over 60,000 individuals with this surname or one of its identified variant spellings have been extracted worldwide. Look-ups will be done in the TURK Surname Society database for all who are interested. Improvements of this database are solicited. The TURK Surname Society database is online. The TURK Surname Society database includes the complete extractions of the following eight variations from US censuses (1790-1930), UK censuses (1841-1901), Canadian censuses, and from the US Social Security Death Index: TERK, TIRK, TUERK, TURCK, TUREK, TURK, TURKE, TURKS. DE TURCK, DE TURK, MacTURK and McTURK have also generally been included in the US and UK extractions.

Extractions have also been done in the records of various archives, published genealogies, and online records, such as: Ancestral File, GenForum, International Genealogical Index and Rootsweb. Finally, the database has been the recipient of the records of many individual genealogists.

The TURK Surname Y-DNA Project is affiliated with the genealogical efforts of the TURK Surname Society. Through this affiliation an attempt is being made to align science with the more traditional approaches to understanding heritage. Both efforts focus on all persons with TURK as a root part of a surname, or that have a phonetic or translation equivalent. Within this definition 480 variant spellings of the surname have been identified. Eighteen independent Y-DNA origins have been identified.

Y-DNA Surname Projects are managed through Family Tree DNA. Those wishing to join the TURK Y-DNA Project may do so here.

The TURK Surname Society (GOONS) collects all genealogical references for all individuals within one degree of relationship to the targeted surname and its variant spellings, i.e. includes spouses and children of the targeted surname.

Extraction Focus - While all variants are of interest, the primary focus is on fourteen variations.

GOONS variations: DeTURK, MacTURK, TURCK, TUREK, TURK, TURKE

Additional extraction variations: DeTURCK, MacTURCK, McTURCK, McTURK, TERK, TIRK, TUERK, TURKS.

Records Extractions - The rounded numbers of extracted records have come from the following sources:

Ancestral File - 1,000
Cemetery - 1,000
Census - 45,000
IGI - 15,000
Publications - 13,000
Researchers - 20,500
SSDI - 6,500
Vital Records - 5,000
Websites - 4,000

TOTAL - 111,000

When comparing the integrated TURK Guild database with other surname non-integrated databases the comparable figure is 111,000. However, considering the greater complexity of integrating a database, the value of such a database to the individual researcher is significantly greater than the simple aggregation of records.

TURK Surname Y-DNA Project - This effort attempts to align the genealogical record with the scientific record. The goal is to be able to direct a Y-DNA participant without a genealogical record to his placement within such records. Currently Y-DNA results have clustered into eleven different haplogroups/haplotypes. A by-product of the Guild and the Y-DNA efforts has been the clarification of the multiple, independent origins of the surname.

Surname Frequency Distribution

· Eastern European 4140

· Germany 11,299

· United Kingdom 6358

· United States 30,513

· Other 4640

· Unspecified 3270
TOTAL 60220 (13 May 2008)

Y-DNA Hapgroup – E3b This lineage is believed to have evolved in the Middle East. It expanded into the Mediterranean during the Pleistocene Neolithic expansion. It is currently distributed around the Mediterranean, southern Europe, and in north and east Africa.

Surnames:

· DEL TURCO (Italy)

· TURKEL (Ukraine)

· TURCHI (Italy)

Y-DNA Hapgroup – G This lineage may have originated in India or Pakistan, and has dispersed into central Asia, Europe, and the Middle East.
Surname:

· TUREK (Poland)

Y-DNA Hapgroup – G2 This lineage (containing the P15 mutation) is found most often in Europe and the Middle East. Moorish Spain is a possible origin.
Surname:

· TURCO (Sicily)

· TURK (Netherlands)

Y-DNA Hapgroup – I This lineage dates to 23,000 years ago or longer - found distributed at low frequency throughout Europe.
Viking Lineages
Surnames:

· TURK (England)

Y-DNA Haplogroup – I1 This lineage likely has its roots in northern France. Today it is found most frequently within Viking / Scandinavian populations in Northwest Europe and extends at low frequencies into Central and Eastern Europe.
Surname:

· TURK – (Croatia)

· TURKUS (Russia)

· TURQUE (France)

Y-DNA Hapgroup – J2 This lineage originated in the northern portion of the Fertile Crescent where it later spread throughout central Asia, the Mediterranean, and south into India. As with other populations with Mediterranean ancestry this lineage is found within Jewish populations. It also suggests a tie between the Picts and Semitic lineages.

Surnames:

· TÖRÖK (Hungary)

· TURK/MacTURK (Northern Ireland/Scotland)

· TURK (Poland)

· TURKANIS (Ukraine)

· TURKELTOP (Poland)

Y-DNA Haplogroup – K2 This specific line is found at low frequency in southern Europe, Northern Africa, and the Middle East.

Surname:

· ÖZTÜRK (Bulgaria)

Y-DNA Hapgroup – R1 The undifferentiated R1 lineage is quite rare. It is found only at very low frequencies in Europe, Central Asia, and South Asia. This lineage possibly originated in Europe and then migrated east into Asia.
Surname:

· TURKOGLU (Turkey)

Y-DNA Hapgroup – R1a1 This lineage is believed to have originated in the Eurasian Steppes north of the Black & Caspian Seas. It is thought to descend from a population of the Kurgan culture, known for the domestication of the horse (circa 3000 B.C.E.). These people were also believed to be the first speakers of the Indo-European language group. It is found in central & western Asia, India, and in Slavic populations of Europe.

Surname:

· TURK/TÜRK/TÜRCK/TÜRCK (Prussia/Poland)

Y-DNA Hapgroup – R1b1 This lineage is the most common in European populations. It is believed to have expanded throughout Europe as humans re-colonized after the last glacial maximum 10-12 thousand years ago. This lineage is also the haplogroup containing the Atlantic Modal Haplotype.
Surnames:

· DERRICK (Germany)

· TURCK (Germany)

· TURCOTTE/TURQ/TURK (France)

· TUREK (Czech Republic)

· TURK (England; Serbia)

· TURK/MacGREGOR (Northern Ireland/Scotland)

Y-DNA Haplogroup – R2 This lineage originated in South Asia and is generally found in Central Asia, Turkey, Pakistan, and India.

Surname:

· TERK (Ukraine)

Toni Richard Turk trturk@frontiernet.net
Emeritus AG (Southern States); Ed.D. (BYU)

http://www.the-turkfamily-of-blandingutah.com/index.php?subCatId=57&level=2


And earlier, i saw this man too;
Current President of Slovenia, Danilo Türk;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danilo_T%C3%BCrk


I really have no idea to explain this interesting phenomenon. What are your thoughts?

Hurrem sultana
05-30-2012, 12:00 PM
the name Turcinovic(turcin-turk) exists both among bosniaks and serbs

Midori
05-30-2012, 12:05 PM
I've never heard of a Macedonian with such surname.

Hurrem sultana
05-30-2012, 12:17 PM
but then we also have names like Hrvat,and croats name Bosnjak

Midori
05-30-2012, 12:24 PM
but then we also have names like Hrvat,and croats name Bosnjak

We have surnames like Srbinovski (Serb), but Turk? No way.

Hurrem sultana
05-30-2012, 12:27 PM
the last name Turcinovic is more common among serbs :D

Methmatician
05-30-2012, 02:30 PM
I've seen Bosniaks with surname "Turkovic". Does that mean they fought in crusades, or they have Turkish ancestor?

Onur
05-30-2012, 02:37 PM
I've seen Bosniaks with surname "Turkovic". Does that mean they fought in crusades, or they have Turkish ancestor?
It cant be crusades because Bosnians was bogomil christians at that time and crusaders was brutally massacring them like burning them on giant crosses because they were considered as heretics. It`s been said that while crusaders was passing from balkans in 1200s, they massacred 1/3rd of Bogomils in today`s Bosnia to Macedonia.

So, people with the surname as Turkovic are most likely have some Turkish ancestors. We have millions of people here in Turkey with Bosnian ancestors and ofc you should have same too but for the Serbians with the name Turcinovic? Ehmmm, wow! I cant think something besides these Serbs had Bosnian ancestors with the surname Turci. As you know, the relations between Serbs and Bosnians was quite good during the Ottoman era.


This is so interesting tough, just like i can never understand the reason of the phenomenon that Serbian language having the most Turkish word loans up to 9000, even more than Bosnians, Greeks, Bulgarians or Albanians.

Btw, is it possible to live in Serbia today with a name like Turcin without getting humiliated?

Methmatician
05-30-2012, 02:49 PM
It cant be crusades because Bosnians was bogomil christians at that time and crusaders was brutally massacring them like burning them on giant crosses because they were considered as heretics. It`s been said that while crusaders was passing from balkans in 1200s, they massacred 1/3rd of Bogomils in today`s Bosnia to Macedonia.

So, people with the surname as Turkovic are most likely have some Turkish ancestors. We have millions of people here in Turkey with Bosnian ancestors and ofc you should have same too but for the Serbians with the name Turcinovic? Ehmmm, wow! I cant think something besides these Serbs had Bosnian ancestors with the surname Turci. As you know, the relations between Serbs and Bosnians was quite good during the Ottoman era.

Oh ok. Thanks for clearing that up.


This is so interesting tough, just like i can never understand the reason of the phenomenon that Serbian language having the most Turkish word loans up to 9000, even more than Bosnians, Greeks, Bulgarians or Albanians.

Btw, is it possible to live in Serbia today with a name like Turcin without getting humiliated?

I don't know anyone who lives in Serbia, so I don't know. I would assume you would be made fun of; the Balkans is an irrational place.

Methmatician
05-30-2012, 02:50 PM
Also, I think Macedonian has the most words of Turkish origin in the Balkans.

Han Cholo
05-30-2012, 02:51 PM
McTurk.... hahahahaha

Onur
05-30-2012, 03:05 PM
Also, I think Macedonian has the most words of Turkish origin in the Balkans.
Macedonian is close 2nd but Serbian has most Turkish loans. This is a 650 page book written by a linguist about Turkism in Serbian language and he founded 9000 Turkish loans in 1960s;
http://bs.scribd.com/doc/23504026/Abdulah-Skaljic-Turcizmi-u-Nasem-Jeziku

I saw an article about Turkism in Macedonian language before. I think the number was 7000 in it. Bulgarian has around 4000 today after Russians standardized their language. Greek also has around 2500 today but it`s been said that Greek had over 11.000 Turkish words during Ottoman era and it was called as "Rum" language.



McTurk.... hahahahaha
And we have a Turkish style hamburger menu in McDonald's restaurants here named as "McTurko" :)

Methmatician
05-30-2012, 03:10 PM
Macedonian is close 2nd but Serbian has most Turkish loans. This is a 650 page book written by a linguist about Turkism in Serbian language and he founded 9000 Turkish loans in 1960s;
http://bs.scribd.com/doc/23504026/Abdulah-Skaljic-Turcizmi-u-Nasem-Jeziku

That's Serbo-Croatian. That means Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian.

Hurrem sultana
05-30-2012, 03:15 PM
we have last names like Stambolija(bosnian word for istanbul is often stambol),Tatar,Cerkez,Arapovic

Methmatician
05-30-2012, 03:18 PM
we have last names like Stambolija(bosnian word for istanbul is often stambol),Tatar,Cerkez,Arapovic

Cerkez is also Croatian.

Hurrem sultana
05-30-2012, 03:19 PM
That's Serbo-Croatian. That means Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian.

and the author(Abdulah Skaljic) is from eastern Bosnia

Hurrem sultana
05-30-2012, 03:20 PM
Cerkez is also Croatian.

well i know one Islamovic ,it must be not that fun to be Islamovic in Croatia

probably they have some bosniak ancestry

Methmatician
05-30-2012, 03:21 PM
Also, most of those words in the book are not in use anymore.

Methmatician
05-30-2012, 03:21 PM
well i know one Islamovic ,it must be not that fun to be Islamovic in Croatia

probably they have some bosniak ancestry

Islamović comes from the name "Islam". I have a relative called "Islam". Most likely a Croatian convert.

Archduke
05-30-2012, 03:28 PM
Bulgarian has around 4000 today after Russians standardized their language.

:lol00002::crazy: :loco:

Hurrem sultana
05-30-2012, 03:35 PM
Also, most of those words in the book are not in use anymore.

maybe 20% are still used,and those are the words that are here to stay,words that we do not have any other slavic word for,,or words that we have accepted as "our words"(amidza,dajdza and such)

Methmatician
05-30-2012, 03:38 PM
maybe 20% are still used,and those are the words that are here to stay,words that we do not have any other slavic word for,,or words that we have accepted as "our words"(amidza,dajdza and such)

Serbs and Croats don't use those words. They use Stric and Ujak.

Sikeliot
05-30-2012, 03:39 PM
I've seen Italian Americans with the surname Turco, which means Turk.

Hurrem sultana
05-30-2012, 03:40 PM
Serbs and Croats don't use those words. They use Stric and Ujak.

i was talking abut Bosnia.but at least serbs have the last name amidzic


probably at some time they used it too

Methmatician
05-30-2012, 03:44 PM
i was talking abut Bosnia.but at least serbs have the last name amidzic


probably at some time they used it too

They did, but they replaced it with Stric and Ujak. I don't know why Bosniaks haven't.

Hurrem sultana
05-30-2012, 03:45 PM
They did, but they replaced it with Stric and Ujak. I don't know why Bosniaks haven't.

as i said because bosniaks see those words as "bosnian words"

zlakopistou
05-30-2012, 03:48 PM
If I am not wrong, there was a time when all muslims were called "Turks" by Europeans. Even today, in some latin american countries, arabs -christians or muslims - are called "Turks".

Duke
05-30-2012, 03:50 PM
If I am not wrong, there was a time when all muslims were called "Turks" by Europeans. Even today, in some latin american countries, arabs -christians or muslims - are called "Turks".

That is true for Bosnia, before 100-150 years or so Muslims were Turks, not only called by others, but by themselves also.


There also another funny thing, most muslims in Bosnia are not actually Bosnian, but Slavonian converts that moved there as a massive population exchange after reconquista of Slavonia province.

That is why almost 100% of people with Bošnjak surname are Croats, because it signifies them as those who came from Bosnia province.


Out of others who left Bosnia even before that, are now Gradišćanski Hrvati, their exodus was from 1st stages ottoman advance in Bosnia :)


We have surname Turko, and Spahija :)

Hess
05-30-2012, 03:59 PM
massacred 1/3rd of Bogomils in today`s Bosnia to Macedonia.

Source?

Insuperable
05-30-2012, 04:03 PM
Cerkez is also Croatian.

Its exists only among Herzegovinian Croats and Serbs from Croatia, and comes from a specific place from Herzegovina if we are to talk about Herzegovinian Croats. It can be found in Croatia due to migrations from Herzegovina

Insuperable
05-30-2012, 04:08 PM
I know a guy whos last surname was given by Turks to his ancestors centuries ago. They killed a large number of Turks, throwed them in pits and because of that Turks gave them a bad reputation surname.
So if some has a Turkish sounding surname it can mean nothing.

safinator
05-30-2012, 04:10 PM
In Albanian we have the form Cerkezi

Onur
05-30-2012, 04:11 PM
Its exists only among Herzegovinian Croats and Serbs from Croatia, and comes from a specific place from Herzegovina if we are to talk about Herzegovinian Croats. It can be found in Croatia due to migrations from Herzegovina
Cerkez is a Turkish word for Circassians. 10.000s of Circassians has migrated to Balkans during their great exodus in late 19th century.

So, these people must have had Circassian ancestors.

Duke
05-30-2012, 04:12 PM
Cerkez is a Turkish word for Circassians. 10.000s of Circassians has migrated to Balkans during their great exodus in late 19th century.

So, these people must have had Circassian ancestors.

Probably, but surname is pretty rare

Insuperable
05-30-2012, 04:13 PM
Its exists only among Herzegovinian Croats and Serbs from Croatia, and comes from a specific place from Herzegovina if we are to talk about Herzegovinian Croats. It can be found in Croatia due to migrations from Herzegovina

My mistake, it comes from Bihac a town in Bosnia but for some reason it is present where I have written.

Insuperable
05-30-2012, 04:14 PM
Cerkez is a Turkish word for Circassians. 10.000s of Circassians has migrated to Balkans during their great exodus in late 19th century.

So, these people must have had Circassian ancestors.

Unfortunately it is possible, but it does not have to mean that.

Insuperable
05-30-2012, 04:17 PM
Probably, but surname is pretty rare

There are only circa 150 people with that name among Croats, so yes it is rare

poiuytrewq0987
05-30-2012, 04:22 PM
Tomislav Karamarko, a Croatian politican with Turkish Kara surname.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/20_obljetnica_osnutka_SJP_Alfa_Zagreb_Tomislav_Kar amarko_03092011_304.jpg/220px-20_obljetnica_osnutka_SJP_Alfa_Zagreb_Tomislav_Kar amarko_03092011_304.jpg

Archduke
05-30-2012, 04:28 PM
^My surname is also with Kara.

Lena
05-30-2012, 04:36 PM
the last name Turcinovic is more common among serbs :D

LOL! What a loads of rubbish :D
Luckily enough, we live in a 21st century where info is just one googling away :wink

In a city which hits around 2 million people there are only 20 people listed as Turčinović, in other words, percentage wise it's insignificant.

On the other hand, don't know, I could be wrong, you do the math and I'll eat some popcorn :coffee:

Lena
05-30-2012, 04:42 PM
Tomislav Karamarko, a Croatian politican with Turkish Kara surname.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/20_obljetnica_osnutka_SJP_Alfa_Zagreb_Tomislav_Kar amarko_03092011_304.jpg/220px-20_obljetnica_osnutka_SJP_Alfa_Zagreb_Tomislav_Kar amarko_03092011_304.jpg

It was just a prefix which at one point became part of the last name.

safinator
05-30-2012, 04:43 PM
So Karadzic was a Turk :laugh:?

Lena
05-30-2012, 04:47 PM
So Karadzic was a Turk :laugh:?

Right... and Blackovic must be an Englishman :wink

Onur
05-30-2012, 04:59 PM
Yes "Kara" is Turkish but it doesn't mean anything about that particular person`s ancestry. It was just quite common among Turks to call people with their profession, hometown or person`s physical appearance. So, this guy must have had a brunette, swarthy looking ancestor called Marko, so he became "KaraMarko". It was also common among Turks to call swarthy people as "Arab", so "Arabovic" probably means same thing as "Kara"

For example the people with blue eyes was being called as "Çakır", the crippled ones was "Çolak", the ones with blond hair was "Sarı", blind people was being called as "Kör". There are many surnames with these adjectives in Turkey and i know there are people in Greece and other parts of Balkans with these same words too.

But i think "Turcinovic, Turkovic" is different. It`s probably related with having Turkish ancestry at some point especially if that person is Bosnian.

"-vic" means "son of ..." right? like our "-oglu".

Insuperable
05-30-2012, 04:59 PM
Right... and Blackovic must be an Englishman :wink

Exactly,
for example Karamarko means "black" Marko. The emphasis is on Marko (old Croatian name , Marcus... ) here. So its obvious that the surname Karamarko is a GIVEN surname by Turks just as surname of my friends was given long time ago to an ancestors of a friend mine whos family fiercely stood up to Turks so Turks gave them a bad reputation surname.

Names related to black color are present in every county, like John Black for example

Lena
05-30-2012, 05:14 PM
But i think "Turcinovic, Turkovic" is different. It`s probably related with having Turkish ancestry at some point especially if that person is Bosnian.

I just checked on Turković and there are 52 registered persons in the city of Belgrade under such a last name. Now we have 20 Turčinović and 52 Turković which obviously indicates their presence, but it's still insignificant.


"-vic" means "son of ..." right? like our "-oglu".

It's Slavic patronim in diminutive form, but it's not like all Serbs have that form of our family names...for instance my last name doesn't end up on IĆ and it's pretty rare here, but still, there are above 200 people in my city listed under the specific last name... We beat 'Turks' in the city of Belgrade any given time :cool: :wink

Hurrem sultana
05-30-2012, 06:14 PM
It was also common among Turks to call swarthy people as "Arab", so "Arabovic" probably means same thing as "Kara"

Arapovic is quite common among Bosniaks.Not top 10,but not that rare either

Mraz
05-30-2012, 06:17 PM
There are even Slovenes with this name like Danilo Türk who is a politician.

Hurrem sultana
05-30-2012, 06:18 PM
Most common surnames in Bosnia according to wiki

Hodžić
Hadžić
Čengić
Delić
Demirović
Kovačević
Tahirović
Ferhatović
Muratović
Ibrahimović
Hasanović
Mehmedović
Salihović
Terzić
Ademović
Adilović

Boiorix
05-30-2012, 06:30 PM
It's common among bosnian muslims surnames because of islamisation and Serbs who have turkish prefix in their surnames were marked of turks for some reason (their physical appearance or some other personal characteristics ) and by centuries they were called like that and that stayed like their real name. For example Karadjordje means Black Djordje/ Crni Djordje and whole royal dinasty after him is called Kara/djordjevic, that is probably the case with Karadzic, there is also Serbian surname called Kaurin which means infidel on turkish.

Methmatician
05-31-2012, 01:28 AM
If I am not wrong, there was a time when all muslims were called "Turks" by Europeans. Even today, in some latin american countries, arabs -christians or muslims - are called "Turks".

Yes, you're right. During the Crusades, all Christians called Muslims "Turks", and all Muslims called Christians "French". I don't know why all Christians were called "French", but I guess that's just how things played out.

Hurrem sultana
05-31-2012, 01:39 AM
Yes, you're right. During the Crusades, all Christians called Muslims "Turks", and all Muslims called Christians "French". I don't know why all Christians were called "French", but I guess that's just how things played out.

french? in Bosnia we called them "latini"(catholics) or "vlasi"(orthodox)

Methmatician
05-31-2012, 02:10 AM
french? in Bosnia we called them "latini"(catholics) or "vlasi"(orthodox)

This was during the Crusades, not modern times.

Guapo
05-31-2012, 02:53 AM
It's common among bosnian muslims surnames because of islamisation and Serbs who have turkish prefix in their surnames were marked of turks for some reason (their physical appearance or some other personal characteristics ) and by centuries they were called like that and that stayed like their real name. For example Karadjordje means Black Djordje/ Crni Djordje and whole royal dinasty after him is called Kara/djordjevic, that is probably the case with Karadzic, there is also Serbian surname called Kaurin which means infidel on turkish.

Kara also means "to fight", so George the fighter but nowadays kara means cock, Леб и сол - Uči me majko, karaj me, teach me mother how to fight, reprimand.

anyway wheres teh Baznyaks on this map?? :lol:

https://www2.bc.edu/~heineman/maps/ethnic.jpg

Yaroslav
05-31-2012, 02:56 AM
Slovenian President's name is Danylo Turk.

Guapo
05-31-2012, 02:56 AM
Slovenian President's name is Danylo Turk.

Turk is a common surname in England too.

http://images.wikia.com/mk/images/1/10/Johnturk.jpg

Methmatician
05-31-2012, 03:50 AM
anyway wheres teh Baznyaks on this map?? :lol:

https://www2.bc.edu/~heineman/maps/ethnic.jpg

Montenegrins... :D

Onur
05-31-2012, 10:14 AM
Yes, you're right. During the Crusades, all Christians called Muslims "Turks", and all Muslims called Christians "French". I don't know why all Christians were called "French", but I guess that's just how things played out.
The reason was the Latin forces was being ruled by the Franks at that time. Even the ruler of England, Richard the lionheart was ignorant to English but he was speaking French. Ofc the Pope was orchestrating everything but his best buddies was Frankish kings.

The same situation was valid for the Turks in the east. The Seljuk empire was at it`s peak and they were controlling pretty much half of the middle east and they fought vs them from first to 6th crusades `till 1240s.

So the crusades has been called as Franks, muslims as Turks.

Onur
05-31-2012, 04:29 PM
Bosnians, i saw you posted this name in another thread;

Fatmir Alispahic is one famous bosnian journalist

Well, this is interesting because sipahis were cavalry units of Ottoman army and Ali is a personal name. Spahi soldiers were exclusively selected from Turks. Some of the sipahi soldiers was being elected to be a timarli sipahi and they were getting the administration of big farms in all over Ottoman lands and their responsibility was breeding horses and store wheat and other agricultural products to provide it to the army when needed. For example, when the army starts it`s campaign, they were stopping over the timarli spahi farms, getting their food and changing their horses with the fresh ones in the farm and then continue to their way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sipahi

So, my best guess is, this Fatmir Alispahic`s ancestor was a Turkish cavalry soldier named Ali.

Hurrem sultana
06-01-2012, 04:17 PM
we also have the names spahic,and spahija(spahic being really common)

Onur
06-01-2012, 09:42 PM
we also have the names spahic,and spahija(spahic being really common)
I just searched on facebook and yes there are 100s of spahic and spahija in Bosnia. Surprisingly there are some orthodox spahic in Serbia too, hehe ;)

Guapo
06-02-2012, 05:04 AM
french? in Bosnia we called them "latini"(catholics) or "vlasi"(orthodox)

You bosnians are weird, Serbians call Romanians Vlachs and/or Latins

Serbian vlach:

9JF8SpKG0SY

Methmatician
06-02-2012, 05:31 AM
You bosnians are weird, Serbians call Romanians Vlachs and/or Latins

That's because Serbs wanted to put he Vlach on someone else :D

Guapo
06-02-2012, 05:33 AM
That's because Serbs wanted to put he Vlach on someone else :D

Vlah means Romance speaker in Serbia, Poles call Italy Vlachy. Old slavonic word. In Greece it means sheep herder or Romance speaker too.

Sultan Suleiman
06-02-2012, 01:49 PM
That is true for Bosnia, before 100-150 years or so Muslims were Turks, not only called by others, but by themselves also.


There also another funny thing, most muslims in Bosnia are not actually Bosnian, but Slavonian converts that moved there as a massive population exchange after reconquista of Slavonia province.

That is why almost 100% of people with Bošnjak surname are Croats, because it signifies them as those who came from Bosnia province.


Out of others who left Bosnia even before that, are now Gradišćanski Hrvati, their exodus was from 1st stages ottoman advance in Bosnia :)


We have surname Turko, and Spahija :)

Haven't I broke this little silly theory of yours on Slavorum :rolleyes: (http://www.slavorum.com/index.php/topic,2345.0.html)

Hurrem sultana
06-02-2012, 01:56 PM
I just searched on facebook and yes there are 100s of spahic and spahija in Bosnia. Surprisingly there are some orthodox spahic in Serbia too, hehe ;)

and many albanian Spahija

Hurrem sultana
06-02-2012, 01:58 PM
Vlah means Romance speaker in Serbia, Poles call Italy Vlachy. Old slavonic word. In Greece it means sheep herder or Romance speaker too.

serbs in Bosnia are not real slavs,they should return to their vlach roots

furthermore,they should get away from Bosnia since turks brought them ,before that they did not live in Bosnia

Methmatician
06-02-2012, 02:02 PM
furthermore,they should get away from Bosnia since turks brought them ,before that they did not live in Bosnia

Some did.

Sultan Suleiman
06-02-2012, 02:07 PM
serbs in Bosnia are not real slavs,they should return to their vlach roots

furthermore,they should get away from Bosnia since turks brought them ,before that they did not live in Bosnia

Ni 300 hiljada Krajišnika nije bilo u Bosni prije Turčina. I zar ti nemaš korijene iz Albanskog plemena?

Guapo
06-02-2012, 02:19 PM
serbs in Bosnia are not real slavs,they should return to their vlach roots

furthermore,they should get away from Bosnia since turks brought them ,before that they did not live in Bosnia

Lame troll as usual, you're actually a Serb , go back to your orthodox roots.

No, turks brought your filthy religion, which you support more than European causes against them.

Hurrem sultana
06-02-2012, 02:19 PM
Ni 300 hiljada Krajišnika nije bilo u Bosni prije Turčina. I zar ti nemaš korijene iz Albanskog plemena?

yok vala

nana je Keshmer is Visegrada,ni manje ni vise.Keshmer je navodno turskog porijekla

Guapo
06-02-2012, 02:21 PM
Ni 300 hiljada Krajišnika nije bilo u Bosni prije Turčina.

Vidjel sam tvoju sliku, ma ti tipican Srbin/Vlah iz okoline BL/Bihac :D :lol:


yok vala

nana je Keshmer is Visegrada,ni manje ni vise.Keshmer je navodno turskog porijekla

nazad u turksu

Sultan Suleiman
06-02-2012, 02:28 PM
Vidjel sam tvoju sliku, ma ti tipican Srbin/Vlah iz okoline BL/Bihac :D :lol:



nazad u turksu


Nadam se da pokušavaš trolovat...

Sultan Suleiman
06-02-2012, 02:28 PM
yok vala

nana je Keshmer is Visegrada,ni manje ni vise.Keshmer je navodno turskog porijekla

Kešmer je Albansko prezime :D

Pitaj bilo kojeg Albosa ovdje :thumb001:

Guapo
06-02-2012, 02:29 PM
Nadam se da pokušavaš trolovat...

. I've seen it.


Kešmer je Albansko prezime :D

Pitaj bilo kojeg Albosa ovdje :thumb001:

Kesmer je židovsko prezime

Rron
06-02-2012, 02:30 PM
The word spahi is not turkish ,in balkan is related with turkish because of feudal status during ottoman era but word itself is of Persian origin for cavalryman

Hurrem sultana
06-02-2012, 02:31 PM
Kešmer je Albansko prezime :D

Pitaj bilo kojeg Albosa ovdje :thumb001:

No vec sam se raspitala,tursko je

Guapo
06-02-2012, 02:33 PM
The word spahi is not turkish ,in balkan is related with turkish because of feudal status during ottoman era but word itself is of Persian origin for cavalryman

is Keshmer albo surname

Duke
06-02-2012, 02:34 PM
Kešmer=Kašmir?

Guapo
06-02-2012, 02:36 PM
Kešmer=Kašmir?

no, just Kešmer

safinator
06-02-2012, 02:37 PM
is Keshmer albo surname
Never heard of this surname

Rron
06-02-2012, 02:37 PM
is Keshmer albo surname
I didnt heard such surname here , also etymology of that name dont have ties with meaning of any Albanian word.

Hurrem sultana
06-02-2012, 02:38 PM
Keshmer is turkish,my grandmothers maiden name...and they say it is turkish

Duke
06-02-2012, 02:38 PM
no, just Kešmer

Al to bi vrlo lako mogla bit istoznačnica.


Keshmer is turkish,my grandmothers maiden name...and they say it is turkish

So your granny is a Turk, no suprise there :D

Onur
06-02-2012, 02:54 PM
The word spahi is not turkish ,in balkan is related with turkish because of feudal status during ottoman era but word itself is of Persian origin for cavalryman
The word might be Persian etymologically but i was talking about the Spahi soldiers being exclusively from Turks because they were horsemen using bows and lancers.

So, you guys either adopted that surname because of admiration to the Turkish horsemen or your grand-grandmothers fell in love with them :)

As for the journalist mentioned by Bosnian, his surname was specifically AliSpahic, thats why i said that it`s most likely he had a Turkish ancestor named Ali who were a spahi soldier. I mean, the probability of having Turkish cavalrymen ancestor was much higher with him rather than the ones with only spahija, spahic.



So your granny is a Turk, no suprise there :D
No idiot, this is just a loanword. Don't you guys have Turkish surnames over there in Croatia? I am sure you have. Are they automatically being Turkish too?


Btw, i checked the Turkish dictionary just to be sure. What does keshmer mean in your language today? Is it "joyful, funny person like a buffoon" or "mountain, hill"?

Rron
06-02-2012, 03:05 PM
The word might be Persian etymologically but i was talking about the Spahi soldiers being exclusively from Turks because they were horsemen using bows and lancers.
I knew about what you was talking and i mentioned that word came here in balkan by you, but actually i noticed that word is not of turkish origin, dudes you like to have monopoly on everything what have to do with one of the most dark history of balkan and that is ottoman invasion

Guapo
06-02-2012, 03:11 PM
Btw, i checked the Turkish dictionary just to be sure. What does keshmer mean in your language today? Is it "joyful, funny person like a buffoon" or "mountain, hill"?

Kesh means money

Duke
06-02-2012, 04:02 PM
Kesh means money

Kesh mer= more money? :D

Sultan Suleiman
06-02-2012, 05:20 PM
Kešmer=Kašmir?

A jbt što i ti znaš otezat slavenizirni žabare :rolleyes:

Onur
06-02-2012, 09:22 PM
dudes you like to have monopoly on everything what have to do with one of the most dark history of balkan and that is ottoman invasion
Well, dark history or not but we had a monopoly on most of things about Balkans. This is the history, we cannot change it according to our desires.

Actually you Albanians also had your share in this, it was a great share indeed but you have chosen to forget it and embrace other things like illyrians or skandarberg. Some other people in Balkans did this too. So, everything about Ottomans belonged to the modern Turks anymore while in fact, it was an empire and you all had your own shares, right or wrong, dark or white, whatever it was.

Rron
06-02-2012, 09:54 PM
Well, dark history or not but we had a monopoly on most of things about Balkans. This is the history, we cannot change it according to our desires.
Of course not, we cant change it but as you can see you dont have in all things monopoly lets mention only religion ,because muslim religion isnt invented by ottomans, nevermind thats another thing that you use it for your political goals trying to gave some glory to your empire just like using persian words and then trying to portray them like ottoman ones , isnt this more like your desire or delusive attempts.


Actually you Albanians also had your share in this, it was a great share indeed but you have chosen to forget it and embrace other things like illyrians or skandarberg. Some other people in Balkans did this too. So, everything about Ottomans belonged to the modern Turks anymore while in fact, it was an empire and you all had your own shares, right or wrong, dark or white, whatever it was.
Actually i find weird your obssesion with our ancestry and our strong relation with our ancestors which i must remind you was one of our reasons that we defended our identity an remain without assimilated by you , we didnt embrace anything, Illyrians were there.
And no Albanian case wasnt similar to others we didnt had schools, freedom in religion etc like other neighbours, this clearly speaks for your attempts to assimilate us , so probably this our strong ties with our history gave you bad taste thats why you have some psychological empathy about that while mentioning Illyrians in every your reply directed to us.
Yes your ottoman empire was there, just same as Scanderbeg and his 10000 soldiers against most powerful empire of the time.

kabeiros
07-05-2012, 02:05 AM
Macedonian is close 2nd but Serbian has most Turkish loans
Isn't it funny when monkeydonians claim that Greeks are Turks because of Turkish loanwords in their language? We would never act like that because we know that when you live under an empire it's only normal that you will eventually use some words of the official language in your own language. Monkeydonians once again proven to be retards.

poiuytrewq0987
07-05-2012, 09:26 AM
Isn't it funny when monkeydonians claim that Greeks are Turks because of Turkish loanwords in their language? We would never act like that because we know that when you live under an empire it's only normal that you will eventually use some words of the official language in your own language. Monkeydonians once again proven to be retards.

Anatolian Greek? Are you sure you're not a Turk in denial?

kabeiros
07-05-2012, 04:11 PM
Anatolian Greek? Are you sure you're not a Turk in denial?
Boy am I sure you ask??? I am positive about it, no Turco-Mongoloid traits in me or my family...can you say the same about your self? I know that Slavs have some Mongoloid influence...

Alenka
08-05-2012, 12:52 AM
And earlier, i saw this man too;
Current President of Slovenia, Danilo Türk;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danilo_T%C3%BCrkI doubt that in Slovenia this surname means Turkish ancestry. It's a very common surname, it's the 12th most common. Besides it means something in Slovenian, word 'turk'/'turek' ('türk' in the Prekmürsko dialect) = 'mushroom'.

Annihilus
08-11-2012, 10:01 PM
Boy am I sure you ask??? I am positive about it, no Turco-Mongoloid traits in me or my family...can you say the same about your self? I know that Slavs have some Mongoloid influence...

Are you Anatolian Greek?

Siberian Cold Breeze
08-11-2012, 10:10 PM
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/2241/faison290x400.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/821/faison290x400.jpg/)

Does Christopher Turk from Scrubs count?









:D

Mikula
09-27-2013, 01:53 PM
Lastname TUREK (Turk) is very frequent among Czechs. One theory says that the lastname originated from nickname for veterans who fought against the Ottoman forces.
I think that it make sense because Czech volunteers in Spanish Civil War was called "Spaniards" here.
Simillary in Russia are veterans who served in Afganistan called "Afghanis".

Ice
09-27-2013, 01:57 PM
Giuseppe “Peppino” Turco - Italian songwriter.

blogen
09-27-2013, 02:15 PM
http://www.delmagyar.hu/menekulnek_a_turistak_egyiptombol/cikk/221/2201622/3.jpg

Dr. Türk Attila PhD (http://kikicsoda.regeszet.org.hu/hu/node/1534) - Hungarian archaeologist

ps. The Török is the 22nd frequentest surname in Hungary. The Türk is a rarer variant.

Mikula
09-27-2013, 03:04 PM
Roman Turek, Czech ice-hockey goaltender:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Turek

Mikula
07-26-2014, 08:28 PM
Adolf Turek, Czech historian and archivist
http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Turek

His work I used several times for my job:thumb001:

Hubal
07-26-2014, 09:17 PM
Turki is a common first name among gulf Arabs.


"Turki" was used as an adjective by Bedouins in the Najd region of Saudi Arabia meaning "handsome", as the Turkic peoples (from Central Asia), commonly designated Turks in medieval Persian and Arabic sources, were considered handsome.

Yaroslav
07-27-2014, 06:08 PM
Slovene President was surnamed Turk.